S22.E04: Sightless In A Savage Land

[WendyCR72]

Airing on January 7, 2021:

The squad spends New Year's Eve tracking down an Amber Alert, and Carisi faces off against Counselor Rafael Barba in an emotional courtroom battle.

[Xeliou66]

This has the potential to be a great episode - or a terrible episode. Barba returning and facing off against Carisi in the courtroom sounds great, but I have no confidence in the writers to deliver a great episode. I worry this will turn into a soap opera, we already know we will have a scene of Carisi and Rollins spending the evening together, which is not good, and I’m afraid the focus will be all on St Olivia instead of Barba or Carisi as she deals with her own feelings about the case, and will probably try to simultaneously boss both Carisi and Barba around. It will certainly be interesting, and I can only hope that Barba is more like his old self and not a Benson bot and that we get some meaty courtroom scenes, but I have no confidence in the SVU writers to deliver a great episode.

[WendyCR72]

I just realized the writers are recycling as far as the title goes. Sounded familiar and it was bugging me: Turns out the title of this episode was named as the title of a fictitious album by the fictitious rock group "Twisted Strands" that Wheeler told Logan about on Criminal Intent in the Season 7 episode, "Reunion" (a.k.a. the one where Joan Jett played the victim/corpse!).

As many SVU writers also wrote for CI, I would not be surprised if it was one of those writers.

[dttruman]

15 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

This has the potential to be a great episode - or a terrible episode. Barba returning and facing off against Carisi in the courtroom sounds great, but I have no confidence in the writers to deliver a great episode. I worry this will turn into a soap opera, we already know we will have a scene of Carisi and Rollins spending the evening together, which is not good, and I’m afraid the focus will be all on St Olivia instead of Barba or Carisi as she deals with her own feelings about the case, and will probably try to simultaneously boss both Carisi and Barba around. It will certainly be interesting, and I can only hope that Barba is more like his old self and not a Benson bot and that we get some meaty courtroom scenes, but I have no confidence in the SVU writers to deliver a great episode.

I agree. I wish they could have put a little more content into their promos. All we know is that SVU gets a call about an amber alert and that Carisi and Barba square off in a court room. I'd like a little more info, than that

[Gigi43]

Liv and Noah talking about the ball drop made me snicker since Billy Porter performed in Times Square. Maybe Mr. Jackie got his life back together and shoved it in Liv's face publicly. 😉

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Gigi43

[dttruman]

Wow, private things about Fin have been few and far between of late, then they drop this bomb on us! Well at least it is something.

 

OK, it took them half way through the episode, but we now know what the plot line is about. The only problem with the plot is that we have seen this so many times before. I thought there would be a little more originality, I hope it gets better.

[Gigi43]

AJ was being taken into custody. The judge was acting on the side of caution to not let the man around other kids. "Protecting his daughter when no one else would" is not a take I like from Barba. It's closer to the pulling the plug on the baby without the father there Barba than the Barba I love. 

 

PTSD is the only defense worth entertaining. It was so obvious he went out to kill him.

Eh...  at least Barba shaved.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Gigi43

[dttruman]

11 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

"Protecting his daughter when no one else would" is not a take I like from Barba. It's closer to the pulling the plug on the baby without the father there Barba than the Barba I love. 

Yeah, it seems Barba is still suffering from his own self-righteousness.

[MerBearHou]

Barba talking at the speed of light — even faster than usual — made him seem more arrogant and frankly, like he was on drugs of some sort.  To me, he was pretty insufferable for 99% of the episode.  

So glad Carisi won — absolutely unbelievable that Barba was defending this vigilante who clearly premeditated murdering the foster father (who was guilty but deserved to go to trial just like any other perp).  Being a wounded vet does not give anyone the right to be judge, jury and executioner.

Loved the engagement news about Fin — wish we’d seen the moment!  I've always liked Jennifer Esposito in the roles I've seen.

I actually don’t mind that Carisi is a stable, normal, stand-up guy in Rollins’ life.  Enjoyed the happy reactions when he walked into the apartment on NYE.  

I very much liked that Benson took a back seat on this episode.  The amount of Benson was just right IMO.  

Something I missed:  how was the daughter found?  On the street, bleeding out, if I heard correctly?  What did her foster father intend after he gave her the abortion pills — she could have died if she hadn’t been found.  Someone fill me in please.

Edited January 8, 2021 by MerBearHou

[tennisgurl]

So what the hell is the episodes title referring to? Is that a literary quote? Why are the episodes titles so freaking weird now? 

[Xeliou66]

This episode was really good overall - there were a few minor problems but overall the good outweighed the bad. 

I disliked the opening - I don’t care for personal stuff, I don’t like music montages to cover for a lack of dialogue, and Noah plus Rollins daughter, blah! I didn’t mind Fin with Phoebe or Kat with her girlfriend, because those characters personal lives aren’t shoved down our throats. Fin is now engaged!! Interesting that he’s been dating Phoebe for over a year but we’ve only heard about it recently, but I buy it, Fin is very private and he doesn’t shove his personal life down people’s throats. I liked how they worked Phoebe into the case and had her help out as well. 

Barba was back, and he was much more like his old self again!! That was awesome, he was the charasmatic, cocky lawyer that we loved, not a Benson bot/puppet for anyone. While I wasn’t on his side, I enjoyed him much more than I did when he became Benson’s lapdog in season 18.

I loved that they delivered strong courtroom scenes, I was on Carisi’s side and I was glad the killer went to prison at the end, vigilante justice can’t be tolerated, but both Carisi and Barba were great in court, and I loved each of their scenes and their arguments - I’ve always been a big fan of episodes with more courtroom scenes and to see 2 of my favorites in Carisi and Barba in court was great. Carisi’s cross of Mickey was his best moment so far as a lawyer, they’ve finally figured out how to write for Carisi as an ADA, this was his best episode yet in the ADA role. 

I did have somewhat of an issue with Fin, he seemed to be acting more like Benson or Rollins at times and letting his feelings dictate how he did his job, and Fin has always seen things rather in black and white and doesn’t get emotionally invested so he seemed OOC at times, and I didn’t like his comment at the end that he didn’t think Mickey should go to prison, Fin was again letting his emotions cloud his judgment, OOC for him. He did redeem himself somewhat by being very professional when he testified and not giving biased testimony, but still this wasn’t his best episode. 

For once, I liked Rollins and was glad she was on Carisi’s side, and didn’t mind Rollins and Carisi scenes!! I was sort of pissed at how Benson and Fin went behind Carisi’s back and got Barba involved, and I was hoping Carisi would have it out with both of them, I was glad Rollins sided with Carisi and provided support for him when everyone else seemed to be working against him (we didn’t know what side Kat was on, she had a very minor role). I expected this kind of behavior from Benson, but not from Fin, and I can’t believe for once I sided with Rollins and liked her scenes with Carisi. 

What did Benson think would happen when she got Barba involved? She acted oh so surprised that Barba wound up defending Mickey when that’s basically what she asked him to do!! Benson really irritated me again, but at least she didn’t hog the screentime.  I’m still hoping Carisi and St Olivia have a major argument with Carisi telling her he doesn’t work for her anymore. 

I liked Garland, he only had 2 scenes but I liked how he was firm with SVU and told them to behave themselves. 

Overall I liked this episode - the case was good, Carisi was great, the courtroom scenes delivered, Barba was more like his old self and wasn’t a weak puppet and the episode was compelling from start to finish, minus the opening. There were a few flaws, but overall this was another very strong episode. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Xeliou66

[Broderbits]

34 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So what the hell is the episodes title referring to? Is that a literary quote? Why are the episodes titles so freaking weird now? 

I believe it's a variation of the term "eyeless in Gaza" that Milton used to describe the Biblical Samson after he was sheared and blinded. In other words, a strong man made relatively powerless. Eyeless in Gaza is also a novel by Aldous Huxley.

[preeya]

This show along with many others need to make a decision about how and when (or not) to wear masks.

It is so annoying and not realistic as to the manner in which it is being handled.

Noah has mask on in opening scene. His mother right next to him no mask.

Last scene Barba and Olivia talking, no masks. Conversation ends, they walk away in different directions and both put their masks on.

Very distracting & annoying.

Edited January 8, 2021 by preeya

[CrystalBlue]

Barba was back with a vengeance!  Homey don't play Prosecutor Boy anymore!  It was great seeing Rafael again and he defended his client with all the vigor a top notch defense lawyer should do.  Carisi did a fine job too.  I didn't care about St. Liv's armchair psychoanalysis of Barba's defense and why he did it.  She just had to bring up the baby killing, didn't she?  After she hypothetically floats her hypothetical plot to get Barba on the case.

It would be great to see Barba back as a defense lawyer on the show.  More Carisi and Barba, please.

Thank Santa's Elves that the Rollisi scene was just an innocent couch nap and the duo are still as good as platonic friends or brother and sister.

I really enjoyed Phoebe as well with Fin.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Carisi. Although Barba got all the PR in many ways this was really Carisi's episode. He was great throughout and they did a nice job of writing him/ The courtroom scenes were notably above average for WL and they managed to handle both the (over)hyped Rollisi scenes and his interactions with everyone else too. They avoided any OOC moments and managed to avoid making him either hopelessly naive or some sort of superlawyer.
Barba. Always nice to see Raul and again they did a goof job. Especially impressive was they way they managed to thread the needle and nodded to the crappy way he was written off (even tying it in to the theme of the episode and his motivation!) while not putting any real focus on it and largely treating it as water under the bridge.
Fin. Like Carisi he didn't get the hype, but he was a featured player as well. It was nice to see him driving a lot of the plot and see his military background well used. And he got engaged! Unlike Carisi there were a couple of off notes at times, but I still prefer it to talking about how he was Army too before having Rollins or Benson do all the interacting.
Benson?! I wasn't really impressed with any of her scenes, but they did a nice job of letting her be the lead of an ensemble rather than making it all about her all the time. Both Benson and Mariska lead without diminishing everyone else. Maybe another season like this and I might remember why I used to like her.

The Bad:
The opening musical montage. I don't know why the show has become so fond of them, since I remember reading that the Criminal Intent staff including Leight didn't like it when USA was asking for them. And the sound mixing and editing were terrible. I liked a lot of the parts, but the whole was less than their sum.
Barnes should have been used a little more. He was great while he was there, but it would have been nice to see him talking to Carisi about the big picture the squad was ignoring or maybe noting that Fin had a gut feeling that something was off, but let his emotions overrule that.
Benoah. In an episode that avoided all the usual  pitfalls this was the one they didn't. At least it was mercifully brief.
The masks. I was OK with how how it was handled the first couple episodes, but these last couple episodes have just been confounding. It's so random that I have a hard time suspending my disbelief since it doesn't even follow any story logic I can see. So Kat and Fin are wearing masks in the VA while patients aren't? Why do jurors with speaking roles not wear masks while extras do (but sometimes not)? Why is Noah wearing a mask while Benson isn't? I can live with main cast not wearing masks in their scenes together and guest stars taking off their masks to make big speeches, but there just doesn't seem to be any logic to it at times either IRL or in the show's "reality".

Overall this was a really good episode. Probably the strongest of a surprisingly good season so far. A- maybe a strong B+. The writing was a cut above the usual and didn't make me wonder what the 4 credited writers did which has usually been the case when Leight and Martin take credits on "bigger" episodes these last couple seasons. And while the clunky parts were REALLY clunky overall they gave us a solid hour of classic style SVU. Good enough for me.

[wanderingstar]

It's nice to see Fin have some happiness (had we even seen his apartment before)

Once the case took the (very predictable) turn of Mickey killing AJ, I wasn't as into it. But it was nice to see Barba again. I liked his sparring with Carisi.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Gillian Rosh

[Gigi43]

I wouldn't be surprised to see RE back more. Theatre seems to be where his passion is but at this rate who knows when plays will come back. He probably has some money but he doesnt have the option of even trying to get a part in theatre and a guest star check would help with that.

 

I called it Barba saw himself in Mickey. But neither were justified as the courts were working  (and Barba didn’t have the fucking right to take the fathers chance to say goodbye a court decision would have allowed it if they ruled to remove life support. )

 

Happy for Finn. Liv never respected Carisi. She and Amaro acted like he was an idiot because he was friendly and brought pastries. I'm glad Carisi is seeing the disrespect. Rollins didn't bother me because they were wrong. Garland was right too but you don't have to go far back into the history of the country for examples of why killing someone for being accused is a bad idea. Check the history of this squads cases. Hell as far as the abortion went  thought the AJs wife could have done it and used his computer.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Gigi43

[Ohiopirate02]

Was anyone else taken aback that NBC aired this episode featuring a white man bringing a loaded weapon into a government building after what transpired on Wednesday?  A gun he later uses to shoot a POC?  And then, I'm supposed to feel bad about his situation being a disabled vet and all with a daughter who was abused.  This did not work for me at all.  

[SuzieQ]

I liked this episode more than I thought I would.  I've been hate watching this show for so long, I forgot what it was like to actually care about what happened.  The musical montage at the beginning was bringing them into the 21st century, I would guess.  So many other shows do it, so they are following suit.

Finn getting married!!  I actually like to see him having a life.  I wonder if JE will be a regular now?  The personal stuff in the beginning was nice.  Didn't overshadow the episode.

Nice to see Barba!!  For once he was more sanctimonious than Benson

Edited January 8, 2021 by SuzieQ

[tennisgurl]

Not a bad way to bring Barba back, and it was a pretty good episode overall. Nice to see an episode mostly based around the courtroom, even if the case was actually fairly open and shut when you got the emotions out so I figured that Mickey would go to jail. Barba put up a good defense, but this was clearly premeditated murder, not him having an episode of PTSD that would maybe lead to a temporary insanity plea or something, and you cant just go around murdering people no matter how terrible they are. The pedophile didn't even get away with it when Mickey shot him, he was totally going to jail and considering he was a child rapist he would probably be killed in prison anyway, so its not like he felt like he had to take the law into his own hands because the rapist got away with everything, like what happened with Not Harvey Weinstein. Plus now, the daughter was not only raped and impregnated by a trusted adult who took advantage of her and forced her to lose the baby, she is now looking at going back into the system or back with her druggie hooker mom instead of possibly going to live with her dad in a more stable situation. I also thought it was weird how little of the daughter we actually saw, she was only in one scene in person, and we only heard a few things about how she is actually doing while she was in offscreen land. She was the one who was raped and had her pregnancy forcibly aborted, but she herself was basically a plot device to get her dad to murder the rapist and the whole story was about him and the lawyers fighting over what he did. I wasn't a huge fan of that. 

I do think that Barba was projecting a bit, but I was mostly happy with how things went with him, especially after the terrible way he was written off the show. It was a great episode for Carisi too, he did a good job as prosecutor even after Barba went really over the top with the melodrama trying to get Mickey off. "You fought for her like you FAUGHT FOR OUR COUNTRY!" Like, we get it Barba dial it down a little you aren't running a tent revival. The scenes with the two of them were really good though, I enjoyed how they debated but without getting too overly intense. 

So happy that Finn got engaged, the poor guy has had a seriously rough time lately, he really needed a win. I also liked the scene where he was showing the ring to Olivia, I usually liked the scenes between them. They have a real familiarity between them, they really feel like people who have known and worked together for years, both between the characters and the actors. I do find it a bit out of character that he would get so emotionally involved with this case and was projecting some of his own stuff onto Mickey (more so than Barba even) that is really more of a Rollins or Olivia move. I know that every character gets cases that they Make Personal or has some special meaning of connection to them, but Finn usually tried to stay more professional. Of course, the last time he got involved personally with a victim, he had to kill a guy to save a kids life and got sued for his trouble, so at least this one will hopefully not end with him having to defend himself in court. 

I am not a fan of the music video openings, the show is bad at them and they never fit into the rest of the show. Its a weird tonal shift when we go from a musical montage to an episode with no music beyond some dramatic background music that has no other stylistic flares. 

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Was anyone else taken aback that NBC aired this episode featuring a white man bringing a loaded weapon into a government building after what transpired on Wednesday?  A gun he later uses to shoot a POC?  And then, I'm supposed to feel bad about his situation being a disabled vet and all with a daughter who was abused.  This did not work for me at all.  

I think if it would have been a week or two before, they would have thought about pulling the episode. I also think that if they had enough time, they would have reshot a couple of scenes where some of the crowd members would wear MAGA hats.

[CrystalBlue]

I'm OK with this episode being aired as scheduled regardless of the recent real life events.  I don't have to have my entertainment censored for me.

[kicotan]

12 hours ago, wknt3 said:

The masks. I was OK with how how it was handled the first couple episodes, but these last couple episodes have just been confounding. It's so random that I have a hard time suspending my disbelief since it doesn't even follow any story logic I can see. So Kat and Fin are wearing masks in the VA while patients aren't? Why do jurors with speaking roles not wear masks while extras do (but sometimes not)? Why is Noah wearing a mask while Benson isn't? I can live with main cast not wearing masks in their scenes together and guest stars taking off their masks to make big speeches, but there just doesn't seem to be any logic to it at times either IRL or in the show's "reality".

^^^This^^^ made it hard for me to focus on the story.  
That being said, it ain’t  South Park, so I understand the lag in what was filmed vs. what has transpired over the last week IRL.

I enjoyed seeing Barba again and it was a nice suprise that Fin’s personal life was part of the storyline.

[marceline]

This show has made my teeth itch for years but the idea of Fin and Phoebe made my grinchy heart grow three sizes. 

I hope that Munch can attend the wedding in some fashion. 

[Broderbits]

2 hours ago, marceline said:

I hope that Munch can attend the wedding in some fashion. 

I want him to perform the ceremony!

[Xeliou66]

18 hours ago, marceline said:

This show has made my teeth itch for years but the idea of Fin and Phoebe made my grinchy heart grow three sizes. 

I hope that Munch can attend the wedding in some fashion. 

 

16 hours ago, Broderbits said:

I want him to perform the ceremony!

If Fin and Phoebe’s wedding is shown onscreen, I definitely want a Munch appearance, that would be awesome and he should definitely be there!! It would be a good opportunity to bring back some familiar faces to attend the wedding, and Munch would be at the top of the list. Since they’ve said they hope to bring some familiar faces back in future episodes, I hope Munch is one of them!!

Edited January 9, 2021 by Xeliou66

[dttruman]

16 hours ago, Broderbits said:

18 hours ago, marceline said:

I hope that Munch can attend the wedding in some fashion. 

I want him to perform the ceremony!

I have a feeling they would have Munch giving away the bride

[WendyCR72]

On 1/9/2021 at 2:25 PM, dttruman said:

I have a feeling they would have Munch giving away the bride

Not to be a downer regarding Munch, but I thought I heard or maybe read that Richard Belzer isn't in the best of health these days? Maybe I'm remembering wrong about that...

[dttruman]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Not to be a downer regarding Munch, but I thought I heard or maybe read that Richard Belzer isn't in the beat of health these days? Maybe I'm remembering wrong about that...

That's a good question, because all I know (or thought I knew) was he hasn't past away yet.

[TV Anonymous]

My issue with this episode is on the legal side. Barba kept on saying that the victim was a serial rapist who raped the accused's daughter. But that fact was never decided in court. For all everybody there knew, Sharma was innocent. There was not even an evidence that Sharma was the father. Everything there was allegation. As well, the accused did not know that the victim was really the perpetrator. That should be an aggravating factor in the verdict or sentence.

My nitpick, NYPD officers and Manhattan DAs are day drinking now? It was bright outside the bar. In January, it means earlier than 4 PM.

Edited January 10, 2021 by TV Anonymous

[wknt3]

On 1/10/2021 at 12:20 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Not to be a downer regarding Munch, but I thought I heard or maybe read that Richard Belzer isn't in the beat of health these days? Maybe I'm remembering wrong about that...

You are correct as far as I can tell although I don't think it's ever been stated on the record. There was some speculation that was part of the reason he left to begin with, besides money of course. I can only surmise based on his physical appearance when we've seen him and his not doing as many guest star spots as the show would probably like (he's one of the few departed cast members who would probably actually draw back lapsed viewers) or much on screen work elsewhere since he left that there is some truth to the rumors.  I have heard him on a few podcasts and he still sounds like his old self so I don't think he's gravely ill or anything and a short appearance like as a wedding guest (or best man!) would probably be more doable.

Edited January 12, 2021 by wknt3
fix typos

[Cotypubby]

7 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

My issue with this episode is on the legal side. Barba kept on saying that the victim was a serial rapist who raped the accused's daughter. But that fact was never decided in court. For all everybody there knew, Sharma was innocent. There was not even an evidence that Sharma was the father. Everything there was allegation. As well, the accused did not know that the victim was really the perpetrator. That should be an aggravating factor in the verdict or sentence.

But Liv said she thought he was guilty so therefore he did it, no more evidence needed, case closed! Who even needs trials anymore, Liv is never wrong! 🙄

I think it would have been more interesting if it had turned out that the foster father was actually innocent. At the time of the murder, he had only been accused and the only evidence against him was that his computer was used to search for abortion pills. Because there is no way the girl could have used a computer to search since he took away her phone... 

I guess vigilantism is OK if Liv says you are guilty, the courts be damned. And yeah, watching this after Wednesday, seeing an armed white bearded vet take the law into his own hands has a different color to it now.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Cotypubby

[Xeliou66]

58 minutes ago, Cotypubby said:

But Liv said she thought he was guilty so therefore he did it, no more evidence needed, case closed! Who even needs trials anymore, Liv is never wrong! 🙄

I think it would have been more interesting if it had turned out that the foster father was actually innocent. At the time of the murder, he had only been accused and the only evidence against him was that his computer was used to search for abortion pills. Because there is no way the girl could have used a computer to search since he took away her phone... 

I guess vigilantism is OK if Liv says you are guilty, the courts be damned. And yeah, watching this after Wednesday, seeing an armed white bearded vet take the law into his own hands has a different color to it now.

I’m pretty sure they had DNA evidence he was guilty, plus the statements of his victims, we didn’t really get to see a lot of the investigation into him, but I’m pretty sure they wound up having solid evidence that he was a predator who abused children for years. But I didn’t have a lot of sympathy for the vigilante bio father, because I don’t approve of vigilante justice, plus it wasn’t like the scumbag was going to escape responsibility for his crimes - he had just been denied bail and would certainly have gone to prison, most likely for the rest of his life. 

My main issue with the case was with Benson and Fin going to Barba, behind Carisi’s back, and getting Barba involved, and then Benson acting outraged when Barba wound up representing Mickey, what did she expect to happen?! You can’t have it both ways Olivia!! I still think St Olivia sees Carisi as working for her and doing her bidding, and it’s time for Carisi to put her in her place, they’ve gotten a much better handle on Carisi and the legal stuff this season after last seasons poor writing, but I’m still waiting for Carisi and Benson to really clash and Carisi telling her off, going behind his back to get Barba was a low move on Benson and Fin’s part, and I think it shows that Benson doesn’t have enough respect for Carisi as an ADA. 

And Fin was just OOC for some of the episode, he acted more like Benson or Rollins would, letting his emotions get in the way of his job, which he rarely does, I was glad he gave unbiased testimony, but his comment later that he thought Mickey should walk was very OOC. 

And while I get tired of St Olivia being all knowing and wise, I think she had a point at the end about Barba defending Mickey was partially about Barba defending himself, since Barba had stood trial and faced prison time himself, he obviously had changed some, and I liked how they addressed that without going overboard about the ridiculous way Barba was written off. 

I liked the episode a lot overall, mainly because Carisi really shined, this was his best episode as the ADA, and the courtroom battle between Carisi and Barba was really well done. 

[Cotypubby]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

but I’m pretty sure they wound up having solid evidence that he was a predator who abused children for years.

Right, during Mickey’s trial it was mentioned that after he was killed other girls came forward to say they had also been abused, so later on they had a lot more damning evidence. But at the time of the murder, as far as I remember the only evidence was the computer history and the girl saying he was the father, which at the time was questionable because of her conflicting statements of how she got to the hospital. I’m still a bit confused on that. She said she remembered being taken to the hospital by the foster dad but she was found on the street? So did she actually run away and then pass out? Or did he leave her bleeding out somewhere?

[retrograde]

On 1/8/2021 at 12:07 AM, preeya said:

This show along with many others need to make a decision about how and when (or not) to wear masks.

It is so annoying and not realistic as to the manner in which it is being handled.

Noah has mask on in opening scene. His mother right next to him no mask.

Last scene Barba and Olivia talking, no masks. Conversation ends, they walk away in different directions and both put their masks on.

Very distracting & annoying.

I would say that NYPD cops refusing to wear masks is the most realistic thing about this season!

[tvfanatic13]

I was happy to see voir dire (jury selection). We so rarely see that. 

[wknt3]

On 1/10/2021 at 11:03 PM, Xeliou66 said:

And while I get tired of St Olivia being all knowing and wise, I think she had a point at the end about Barba defending Mickey was partially about Barba defending himself, since Barba had stood trial and faced prison time himself, he obviously had changed some, and I liked how they addressed that without going overboard about the ridiculous way Barba was written off.

As I said in my comments on the show I though that was great writing - they threaded the needle between trying to ignore what happened in the past and retcon it away, and spending any real time talking about it explicitly and reminding us how ridiculous it was. I think there was more to it than just Barba having stood trial, this was defendant who took life and death into his own hands because he couldn't take going through the legal process. It was an angle and a parallel I hadn't considered up to that point and it's perfectly reasonable for Benson to see it and even bring it up. It was a great scene and it really showed what the Benson-Barba dynamic could be at it's best. I wonder if Leight wrote it himself?

[Kel Varnsen]

This episode was weird. In the second episode of the season the mom killed her partner in what was super clearly self defense and even with a plea bargain she still gets a year in prison. In this one a trained soldier plans out killing a guy in custody and people are talking about how he doesn't deserve to go to jail. And even Caruso is offering a plea of manslaughter with a minimum sentence. It makes no sense.

[ShepardRahl]

This episode was decent. The best one this season by far.

I was never a fan of Barba. He was always too busy trying to impress Benson by trying to be a feminist hero. But I will admit he does look good with a beard.

>The courtroom scene happens.

Aw damn. He shaved it.

I’m getting sick of one character or another always bringing up “this country’s dark history”.

Barba: “You can fine me all you want your honor. I’m not going to stop asking questions, because I am fighting for my client’s freedom the same way he fought for out country’s.”

Barba in beast mode. Too bad this wasn’t the Barba we got when he was a full cast member. That Barba was more concerned with making two minute feminist speeches in front of the grand jury.

The idea that Carisi would beat Barba in a case is comical. Carisi didn’t do anything except badger the guy until he got mad. That seems be really be all he does. I’ve sat in on several trials and been on jury duty twice (one of them an attempted murder case). That shit doesn’t happen in real life.

And Carisi crying at the end because half the unit didn’t agree with prosecuting the guy. I really don’t understand why people like Carisi. He’s the same jump to conclusions, double standard, hypocrite as the rest of them. Well, except for maybe Fin.

[Sidthesloth44]

I'm curious, does this mean that Barba will be back as a regular now or was he back for only one episode?

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, Sidthesloth44 said:

I'm curious, does this mean that Barba will be back as a regular now or was he back for only one episode?

I 'm not sure. I don't think they ever brought back a regular to be a regular again. It's a good bet that we will probably see him every now and then.

[Sidthesloth44]

25 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I 'm not sure. I don't think they ever brought back a regular to be a regular again. It's a good bet that we will probably see him every now and then.

Might sound selfish but I kinda hope this was the last time we see him. Don't get me wrong I love Barba (from s14-17), but having in mind the way he was written out, the last thing I want is the writers having a chance to  give him another bullshit storyline that may damage his character further. 

[CrystalBlue]

2 hours ago, Sidthesloth44 said:

Might sound selfish but I kinda hope this was the last time we see him. Don't get me wrong I love Barba (from s14-17), but having in mind the way he was written out, the last thing I want is the writers having a chance to  give him another bullshit storyline that may damage his character further. 

Olivia didn't let us forget that minor detail, did she?  She brought it up, although not explicitly that he pulled the plug on that baby, but when questioning Barba's defense motives.  I hope they drop the whole thing if they have Barba appear again as a defense attorney in the SVUniverse.

[Sidthesloth44]

11 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Olivia didn't let us forget that minor detail, did she?  She brought it up, although not explicitly that he pulled the plug on that baby, but when questioning Barba's defense motives.  I hope they drop the whole thing if they have Barba appear again as a defense attorney in the SVUniverse.

I sort of hope that at some point Barba tells the st Benson to shove it, if Raul wants to appear in more episodes that is. I feel like this was a decent closure episode for Barba, so much better than the 19x13 clusterfuck.  Seem like he just had to get away from the SVU squad and st Benson to find himself again lol.

[Iguessnot]

On 1/11/2021 at 12:53 PM, tvfanatic13 said:

I was happy to see voir dire (jury selection). We so rarely see that. 

Does jury selection take place with the defendant in attendance?

Barba was in fine form but after that baby killing stunt the writers did, his arrogance was really off putting. 

Everybody seems to know this Phoebe that Fin is engaged to. What season was she introduced?

[Xeliou66]

15 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

Does jury selection take place with the defendant in attendance?

Barba was in fine form but after that baby killing stunt the writers did, his arrogance was really off putting. 

Everybody seems to know this Phoebe that Fin is engaged to. What season was she introduced?

Phoebe was introduced in season 20, episode 15 Brothel. 

[Iguessnot]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Phoebe was introduced in season 20, episode 15 Brothel. 

Thanks. Although recent, I think I missed it. I'll rewatch.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 3/12/2021 at 3:19 PM, Iguessnot said:

Does jury selection take place with the defendant in attendance?

Barba was in fine form but after that baby killing stunt the writers did, his arrogance was really off putting. 

Everybody seems to know this Phoebe that Fin is engaged to. What season was she introduced?

Defendants have the right to be present at jury selection. ( At least in most states.) I’ve only done a few criminal jury trials, but to my knowledge they are always present.  

Edited May 7, 2021 by SunnyBeBe