All Creatures Great And Small (2021) - General Discussion

[MrAtoz]

10 hours ago, crankcase said:

First kiss 1978 (@47:38) Nothing remotely as passionate occurred pre-maritally in the current adaptation.

It may or may not be relevant that Christopher Timothy and Carol Drinkwater were romantically involved in real life--although I don't know whether their relationship had started when they filmed that scene.

[izabella]

2 hours ago, Capricasix said:

I love this show, but a couple of things about this episode rubbed me the wrong way. Tristan gives a dog a very cursory examination and says that he can’t see anything wrong with it, and then when the owner rushes the dog to the vet clinic/surgery because of the same problem that he missed the first time, the clinical room is covered in papers and dirty instruments and such? He doesn’t clean up after each patient? Come on now. I get the suspension of disbelief, but even in the 1930s they knew the importance of hygiene, disinfection, quarantine etc.

I could be misremembering, but I thought Tristan had another patient that had just left...a cat that belonged to a little boy?  I was under the impression that the surgery was such a mess because Tristan had trouble with the cat.  And she came in with the dog before he could clean up.

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I can't remember her name, but I wonder if the Dalmation's owner is being set up as a possible love interest for Tristan.

I assume that to be the case. She is the daughter of the rival vet we saw in an earlier episode.

Quote

are we supposed to believe the post-marital Herriots hump like rabbits but never engaged in anything more than tongueless snogging for all that long time between their engagement and wedding?

My parents were both virgins when they got married, and that was in the 50s. 

[Panopticon]

56 minutes ago, Llywela said:

I will add that James not being able to figure out much about the practice's finances beyond 'Siegfried keeps cash in jam jars and receipts in his pockets with no sign of any actual system' is straight out of the original book.

And as I recall straight out of real life too. Both Alf Wight and Donald Sinclair were said to be great veterinarians with no aptitude for the business end of things.

[Cetacean]

This isn't Real Housewives of the Yorkshire Dales.  I don't give a fig about what the Herriots did pre- or post- wedding.  That's not the focus of this charming series.

I do think Florence is going to be the long game for Tristan.  She's gorgeous!

[tennisgurl]

I figured that Siegfried would really struggle with the idea of having a partner, so I wasn't surprised that he spent the whole episode having a hissy fit. It was annoying but in character, and I was glad that he came around in the end. he and James make a good team, I hope that he comes to appreciate him as a partner. It seems like Siegfried made him partner in something of a panicked move to keep James away from the brewing conflict and didn't really think about what that would actually entail. 

I know that it was pretty normal then for tons of people to all live together, and its probably more convenient for James when he's on call, but that attic looks so cramped! I like watching Helen getting used to living with everyone else, it must be quite an adjustment and you can see that its a bit awkward, even if everyone is happy with the arrangement.  

Those calves were so cute, I wanted to give every one of them a pat on their heads. 

[Doublemint]

Everyone eating at the kitchen table!   This would not have happened with someone of Sigfried's class in the 30's.   Even in the old series they ate in the dining room and Mrs Hall served them, (it's assumed she ate in the kitchen by herself - we never saw that).   Also the young boy with the cat says, "thanks Tristan".    In reality, he should have said "thanks Mr. Farnon".    I suppose this only bothers an old person, like me.   If you are unaware of this stuff, it doesn't matter.

[Driad]

Maybe the book Tristan was reading was left by a client and Tristan picked it up.

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I figured that Siegfried would really struggle with the idea of having a partner, so I wasn't surprised that he spent the whole episode having a hissy fit. It was annoying but in character, and I was glad that he came around in the end. he and James make a good team, I hope that he comes to appreciate him as a partner. It seems like Siegfried made him partner in something of a panicked move to keep James away from the brewing conflict and didn't really think about what that would actually entail. 

 

Exactly what I think. 

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

My parents were both virgins when they got married, and that was in the 50s. 

Yup.  My parents were both born in 1915, they met in 1935, dated for several years, during which time she lived with her parents on their farm and he had his own business in town, where they could have gone at night if they had wanted to.  They were both virgins when they got married.  She told me once, she felt sure all her friends were, too.

I think it's hard for people today to understand just what a taboo premarital sex used to be.  Even if passionately in love they only let themselves go so far, the woman held back so that he wouldn't lose his respect for her and the man didn't push very hard because gentlemen simply didn't do that. 

They were both very aware of the disgrace for themselves and their families if she got pregnant before the wedding.

Consequently, even though birth control didn't exist as we know it, only 3%  of births were to unmarried mothers where now it's over 40%.

[peacheslatour]

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Consequently, even though birth control didn't exist as we know it, only 3%  of births were to unmarried mothers where now it's over 40%.

My parents were expecting me when they got married. Same with both sets of aunts and uncles. Of course, this was the fifties not the thirties. 

[dleighg]

3 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

My parents were expecting me when they got married. Same with both sets of aunts and uncles. Of course, this was the fifties not the thirties.

I had the same thought. My grandmother got married at 16 or thereabouts in 1929 and had her first born significantly less than 9 months later. 

[Panopticon]

6 hours ago, Doublemint said:

Everyone eating at the kitchen table!   This would not have happened with someone of Sigfried's class in the 30's.   Even in the old series they ate in the dining room and Mrs Hall served them, (it's assumed she ate in the kitchen by herself - we never saw that).   Also the young boy with the cat says, "thanks Tristan".    In reality, he should have said "thanks Mr. Farnon".    I suppose this only bothers an old person, like me.   If you are unaware of this stuff, it doesn't matter.

I don't know, I think it's perfectly possible to be aware but unbothered. From a character point of view, dining with the help in the kitchen would hardly be the most eccentric thing Siegfried ever did. Throw in the fact that he hired her while spinning off his wife's death and dealing with an adolescent Tristan who had lost both of his parents and then the sister-in-law who stepped into the parental role... "it simply isn't done" going out the window just isn't a stretch to me. He breached protocol just by hiring Mrs. Hall without references, as she herself acknowledged. Theirs was never going to be a traditional relationship. I see Siegfried ignoring the class stratification when it suits him as a feature, not a bug.

And even in the original television adaptation, by the time World War II rolled around and Siegfried wanted to conserve resources, he brought Mrs. Hall to the table with everyone else. The times were changing and he clung to the old ways only when it happened to suit him.

 

 

[Llywela]

Also, we have to bear in mind that although we are used to seeing the class system on TV through the prism of large households like Downton Abbey, there was actually huge variation within the system, especially in small households like Siegfried's - especially by the time we get to the late 30s, when household help was becoming harder and harder to come by anyway. There are plenty of first hand accounts out there from young women who went into service at about this time, and their experience varied wildly. Some were treated appallingly by householders who stood very much on formality - but others really were treated almost as a member of the family.

Siegfried is a well known eccentric. Sitting down to table with his housekeeper seems par for the course for his personality. And from a TV point of view, it makes sense for the show to present the household that way, in terms of the warm, cosy family feeling they wanted to build. Does it sacrifice a small amount of period realism? Possibly, but not as much as it seems on the surface.

[crankcase]

1 hour ago, Llywela said:

Also, we have to bear in mind that although we are used to seeing the class system on TV through the prism of large households like Downton Abbey, there was actually huge variation within the system, especially in small households like Siegfried's - especially by the time we get to the late 30s, when household help was becoming harder and harder to come by anyway. There are plenty of first hand accounts out there from young women who went into service at about this time, and their experience varied wildly. Some were treated appallingly by householders who stood very much on formality - but others really were treated almost as a member of the family.

Siegfried is a well known eccentric. Sitting down to table with his housekeeper seems par for the course for his personality. And from a TV point of view, it makes sense for the show to present the household that way, in terms of the warm, cosy family feeling they wanted to build. Does it sacrifice a small amount of period realism? Possibly, but not as much as it seems on the surface.

Thank you for your knowledgable, literate post. Now, with your understanding of ACGAS in the context of modern British social history, I wonder if you could help us make informed estimates of the answers to the questions below.

1. What is the number of days, when Tristan was away at school and no assistant was on board, that Siegfried and Audrey were the only people in the house?

For 1930s rural England:

2. In what percentage of middle-class homes did the housekeeper dine with the owner when they were often the only ones present?

3. In what percentage of middle-class homes where owner and housekeeper dined together when alone, did they also dine together when others were present?

4. How do the percentages of numbers 2 and 3 change when the housekeeper is younger than the owner, has the face and body of Anna Madeley and the personality and intelligence of Mrs. Hall, and has the skills necessary to help an absent-minded owner with low social IQ succeed in his business?

5. In what percentage of homes in which the owner ultimately marries the housekeeper had they habitually been dining together regardless of the presence of others?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Llywela]

9 minutes ago, crankcase said:

Thank you for your knowledgable, literate post. Now, with your understanding of ACGAS in the context of modern British social history, I wonder if you could help us make informed estimates of the answers to the questions below.

1. What is the number of days, when Tristan was away at school and no assistant was on board, that Siegfried and Audrey were the only people in the house?

For 1930s rural England:

2. In what percentage of middle-class homes did the housekeeper dine with the owner when they were often the only ones present?

3. In what percentage of middle-class homes where owner and housekeeper dined together when alone, did they also dine together when others were present?

4. How do the percentages of numbers 2 and 3 change when the housekeeper is younger than the owner, has the face and body of Anna Madeley and the personality and intelligence of Mrs. Hall, and has the skills necessary to help an absent-minded owner with low social IQ succeed in his business?

5. In what percentage of homes in which the owner ultimately marries the housekeeper had they habitually been dining together regardless of the presence of others?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

If you think it matters that much in the context of a light-hearted drama like this, maybe go and do a bit of research yourself. I'm not prepared to engage with you any more.

[crankcase]

45 minutes ago, Llywela said:

If you think it matters that much in the context of a light-hearted drama like this, maybe go and do a bit of research yourself. I'm not prepared to engage with you any more.

I was agreeing with your viewpoint and genuinely appreciated your post. The questions weren’t meant to be answered; they were making an argument in support of what you wrote, just taking it further. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by crankcase

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, crankcase said:

I was agreeing with your viewpoint and genuinely appreciated your post. The questions weren’t meant to be answered; they were making an argument in support of what you wrote, just taking it further. 

Okay, it came across more as having a dig at me for not providing specifics, sorry if I misread your tone. I was talking more generally. I have read books which collect together first hand accounts of young women who worked in service - gathering and recording the kind of evidence that is so often lost to time - and in those accounts their experiences differed wildly. I don't have the books to hand to quote from, though!

It isn't hard to estimate how much time Siegfried and Audrey would have been alone together in the house over the years. Tristan would have only been home in school holidays and then later in university vacations.

As far as marriage to housekeepers go...I have an ancestor who abandoned his wife and children in the late 1800s, so a few decades earler than this show is set. His wife found work in the household of another man as his housekeeper, she is listed as such on the next census. Fast forward 10 years to the next census again, the first husband has died and she is now married to her employer and has had a couple more children.

It did happen.

[Haleth]

I'd appreciate it if posters would put comments about what the RL James and Siegfried did in spoiler boxes.  I think we can all assume James is going to enlist, but I'd rather see it happen on screen rather than knowing the RL James served.  Thank you!

[JudyObscure]

 

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

Also, we have to bear in mind that although we are used to seeing the class system on TV through the prism of large households like Downton Abbey, there was actually huge variation within the system, especially in small households like Siegfried's

My knowledge of the English class system comes primarily from Norah Lofts novels with a little Catherine Cookson thrown in 😉and according to them Llywela is spot on.  According to Norah the farming class had very strict morals and the Upper Class, while not as moral, had very strict codes of "how things are done" but in the small,  no man's land of middle class professionals there was a much broader code.  Our Siegfried is a law unto himself.

13 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

My parents were expecting me when they got married. Same with both sets of aunts and uncles. Of course, this was the fifties not the thirties. 

Well Peaches that's probably because all the ladies looked like Vivien Leigh.

[pasdetrois]

Mrs. Hall's character is too different from the books. I enjoy tough, cranky, aging Yorkshire housekeepers and do not like having to listen to Mary Poppins solve everyone's problems each week. I guess the producers felt they had to pander to the audience with this character.

On a lighter note, James sure has pep in his step now that he's enjoying conjugal relations. And his character is less overshadowed by Tristan and Sigfriend during this second season.

I do feel there's too much human focus and not enough farming and animals, regardless of the reasons.

Edited January 18, 2023 by pasdetrois

[Doublemint]

2 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Mrs. Hall's character is too different from the books. I enjoy tough, cranky, aging Yorkshire housekeepers and do not like having to listen to Mary Poppins solve everyone's problems each week. I guess the producers felt they had to pander to the audience with this character.

On a lighter note, James sure has pep in his step now that he's enjoying conjugal relations. And his character is less overshadowed by Tristan and Sigfriend during this second season.

I do feel there's too much human focus and not enough farming and animals, regardless of the reasons.

Yes, with you on Mrs. Hall.  Also miss the 5 or more dogs in the household, and the barn with the resident, retired coachman.  So far not liking the "farmers".  The recent farm lady was wearing makeup for heaven's sakes.

[Panopticon]

Yes, Mrs. Hall is different from the books... since she's not really in the books! She's just a name. She wasn't based on a particular real-life person the way James, Siegfried, Helen, and Tristan were. She occasionally appears to hand food to James. She has no backstory, no challenges, no goals, no family, no relationships, no inner life. Even the original television adaptation wasn't "true to the books" since that Mrs. Hall, by virtue of being part of a visual medium, at least got to hint at having a thought in her head via facial expressions in the background.

I love that this adaptation decided to add a three-dimensional Mrs. Hall. I understand that it won't be to everyone's taste, but I fail to see how it's "pandering." Pandering suggests appealing to someone's worst instincts. Is wanting to see the full life of a woman-- who was previously shown existing only to serve men-- such a terrible desire?

[Llywela]

What some see as pandering, others see as a more rounded cast, I guess.

[Sarah 103]

22 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Consequently, even though birth control didn't exist as we know it, only 3%  of births were to unmarried mothers where now it's over 40%.

This is true, but ignores something important and significant. Before the 1970s, possibly earlier, when premarital sex resulted in pregnancy, there was tremendous pressure on the couple to marry to ensure that the baby was not born out of wedlock.   

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

This is true, but ignores something important and significant. Before the 1970s, possibly earlier, when premarital sex resulted in pregnancy, there was tremendous pressure on the couple to marry to ensure that the baby was not born out of wedlock.   

I'm quite sure that happened all the time and it's one the reasons for the Womens Movement of the sixties.

[kaygeeret]

Let us not forget that some people had access to sending the 'unfortunate' girl away to 'relatives' until the baby was born and then put up for adoption.

'Relatives' were of course a home for unwed mothers.

The horrors of the 'mother and baby' homes in Ireland were fairly unique to Ireland I believe.  I could be wrong about that.

[Driad]

In some families, Daughter would stop going to school or work, and stay in the house for a few months. Whereupon Mama would appear to show off "her" new baby.

[Cetacean]

It was so sad to see the lonely farmer cuddling the sick calves.  I hope she got back with her sister who must have married quite late in life.  The farmer was certainly not young and she said her sister had only been married a year, as I recall.  Thank heavens the cause was determined in time to save the remaining calves. They were so adorable!

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, Cetacean said:

It was so sad to see the lonely farmer cuddling the sick calves.  I hope she got back with her sister who must have married quite late in life.  The farmer was certainly not young and she said her sister had only been married a year, as I recall.  Thank heavens the cause was determined in time to save the remaining calves. They were so adorable!

There was one point where she was looking very sad and told James that her sister had married and left and didn't come back to the farm, even though it wasn't that far away.  The way she said it made we wonder (until it was later disproven) whether she was poisoning the calves, hoping that their illness might make her sister want to come and visit.

Glad I was wrong.

[Daff]

On 1/16/2023 at 2:34 PM, Doublemint said:

The "farmers" are not the same caliber as the "farmers" on the old series.  They seem unbelievable-not as crusty and earthy and REAL.   That lady, for example, from her first to last scene screams "actor".   If such is the case, they should limit our exposure to these folks.  I thought the same of the "farmer" from last week and his "son".  

You raise a very interesting point, that I’ve tended to ignore. I suggest that modern actors are generationally removed enough from the era that they have no experience upon which to draw inspiration for their characters. British actors in the 70s weren’t far removed from the deprivation,  reconstruction and continued rationing as a result of the war.
For me, the “unbelievable actor” aspect didn’t fall on this week’s older calf owner though. But the jolly farmer with the herd to be tested realistically wouldn’t have cared that James was on his farm working the morning of his wedding. 

[iMonrey]

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There was one point where she was looking very sad and told James that her sister had married and left and didn't come back to the farm, even though it wasn't that far away. 

But wasn't it her fault? Didn't she basically say she told her sister if she left she couldn't ever come back, or words to that effect? It sounded as if she got mad at the sister for "leaving her" and told her never to come back. 

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

But wasn't it her fault? Didn't she basically say she told her sister if she left she couldn't ever come back, or words to that effect? It sounded as if she got mad at the sister for "leaving her" and told her never to come back. 

I'd have to go back to check.  You may well be right.  I tend to watch while playing games on my tablet, so I sometimes miss stuff.

[Daff]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

But wasn't it her fault? Didn't she basically say she told her sister if she left she couldn't ever come back, or words to that effect? It sounded as if she got mad at the sister for "leaving her" and told her never to come back. 

Yes she did, and I got the impression she’s regretted it ever since. I like to think she was making the trek up those hills to offer a heartfelt apology. Note she carried a bouquet of flowers as she went. (Tiny building on the horizon). 

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, Daff said:

Yes she did, and I got the impression she’s regretted it ever since. I like to think she was making the trek up those hills to offer a heartfelt apology. Note she carried a bouquet of flowers as she went. (Tiny building on the horizon). 

I got the same impression. That long walk to redemption.

[JudyObscure]

22 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm quite sure that happened all the time and it's one the reasons for the Womens Movement of the sixties.

Yes, I've read statistics about the number of pregnant brides in the past and the number was huge.

However, I think the shotgun was usually pointed at the groom on behalf of the bride rather than the other way around.  It's good that pregnant young women don't feel forced to marry anymore, but raising a child alone back when there were few jobs for women and no welfare system wasn't that great either.

Thinking about this makes me long for an All Creatures with a story along those lines. A farm girl realizing she's pregnant just after her boyfriend has left for war might be timely. 

We could watch Tristan and Siegfried rethinking their own cavalier ways with the ladies.

[Driad]

The town presumably has one or more doctors who treat humans. If we have "met" the doctor(s), can someone please remind me of an occasion?

[DonnaMae]

That's pretty small village they live in.  I'm surprised there are several unattached women that Siegfried dates.  And, also, there's another veterinarian?

[Cetacean]

2 minutes ago, DonnaMae said:

That's pretty small village they live in.  I'm surprised there are several unattached women that Siegfried dates.  And, also, there's another veterinarian?

Don't forget that World War I decimated the population of young men in Great Britain.  6% of the adult male population died and those who were wounded often died young because follow up treatment was so poor.

[DonnaMae]

Siegfried isn't dating young women.

1 hour ago, Cetacean said:

Don't forget that World War I decimated the population of young men in Great Britain

Siegfried isn't dating young women.

[Cetacean]

1 hour ago, DonnaMae said:

Siegfried isn't dating young women.

Precisely.  The comment was:

 

3 hours ago, DonnaMae said:

I'm surprised there are several unattached women that Siegfried dates.

There were a lot of unattached women due to the lack of men.

[Llywela]

Also, I don't think the other vet is in the same village. There would be villages dotted all over the countryside - still are. Drive a few miles over the dales, past a few farms, and you're in another village. It's all the same district, but there are multiple villages.

[Daff]

5 hours ago, Llywela said:

Also, I don't think the other vet is in the same village. There would be villages dotted all over the countryside - still are. Drive a few miles over the dales, past a few farms, and you're in another village. It's all the same district, but there are multiple villages.

However, we did just see that the white-coated vet’s daughter lives in a rooming house in the village!

[Llywela]

42 minutes ago, Daff said:

However, we did just see that the white-coated vet’s daughter lives in a rooming house in the village!

Yes, which is fine, the query up-thread was about whether the two vet practices were in the same village. Showing the vet's daughter living in the same village does not imply that her father's practice is also in the same village - the opposite, in fact, since it is established that she does not live at home with her parents.

[Daff]

Based on season 1, his practice was close enough to be in competition with Farnon’s practice. That was previously established. 

[Sharpie66]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:45 PM, dleighg said:

I had the same thought. My grandmother got married at 16 or thereabouts in 1929 and had her first born significantly less than 9 months later. 

My grandparents married much later—she was 29, he a year younger—and had their first child six months after the wedding. They told their children that they had married in March 1929 and were only caught out in the lie when that eldest daughter started planning their 25th anniversary party and one of her aunts broke the news that it would be in 1955, not in ‘54. She was utterly scandalized to find out she had been conceived before marriage! My cousin told me she still didn’t like discussing it in the 1990s.

[YorkshireLass]

1 hour ago, Daff said:

Based on season 1, his practice was close enough to be in competition with Farnon’s practice. That was previously established. 

Bennett's practice was approx 20 miles from Farnon's (as per this interview with James' son https://thebridgehead.ca/2017/06/13/remembering-a-bygone-era-a-conversation-with-james-herriots-son/ ).

Back in those days, 20 miles was quite a distance to travel on pokey country roads so I don't think they would have been stepping on each others toes too often 😄.  Bennett specialized in small animal work whereas Farnon's practice was more focused on farm animals so that would have cut down on the competition between them.  James' son said that Farnon would send the small animal cases that were too complicated for them to Bennett so it sounds like they had a very good professional relationship.  And, according to this interview, there was no exaggeration in the amount of drinking that was done & Bennett's ability to handle it.

I'm totally enjoying this series and I fully didn't expect to when it was announced.  I think my only critique would be that they seem to be straying a bit from focusing on the animal stories.  Hopefully, we'll get back to that as this season progresses.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Back in those days, 20 miles was quite a distance to travel on pokey country roads so I don't think they would have been stepping on each others toes too often 😄.  Bennett specialized in small animal work whereas Farnon's practice was more focused on farm animals so that would have cut down on the competition between them. 

I'll never forget the kitten that James took to Bennett. It's in the books and I won't spoil it here.

[Driad]

Quiz: Which Skeldale House Resident Are You?

[Haleth]

25 minutes ago, Driad said:

Quiz: Which Skeldale House Resident Are You?

Mrs Hall. I would have been disappointed with anyone else.