S05.E22: Reunion Part 3

[Yours Truly]

18 minutes ago, lasu said:

A mutually agreed on fight is how it started - when they were both using only their words.  Some people believe that if you run your mouth too much, you deserve to get hit.  I am not one of those people. I know we don't all believe in the same social contracts, but I think Candiace and I subscribe to the same one (and FUCK THIS SHOW for making me say that).  No matter how much I wound you with my words, you are only allowed to wound me back with your words.  If you lose the battle of mouths, you may not introduce fists.  Just like if two people agree to fight with fists, if you start to lose, you can't pull out a knife.  In a knife fight, you can't escalate to guns.  If you do, you because the person who is Next Level Wrong.  Monique and Canidace started out Same Level Wrong, both acting like a pair of assholes.  But Monique escalated it to the next level.  She broke the social contract I believe in.  Some people absolutely believe in a social contract that if you can't beat someone with your words, you fucking drag them to make them stop using their words.  I'm not saying who is right and who is wrong, but I would never want to hang out with someone who believes it's acceptable to answer words with fists.  

I also loved the slink out, and thought everyone was having fun with it in that moment.

Normally I would agree. Absolutely!!  BUUUUUTTTT they BOTH were being reckless with their hands. They BOTH crossed personal space and BOTH were being aggressive and threatening towards the other. 

Just because one was more apt to put a hurting on the other (and this theory goes out the window when there's a ridiculous difference in size and strength) doesn't make one MORE WRONG than the other. Candace was just as wrong as Monique and BOTH engaged in some ridiculous immature and ugly behavior. 

My main thing is that there were NO victims in that altercation and that TWO women acted the fool and won stupid prizes as a result. 

I'm a believer of not waiting to get smacked before sending you a message to back the fuck up! Physical aggression was being introduced and once that happens all bets are off and I'm not waiting to take the first hit before letting you know I've come to play. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Yours Truly

[drivethroo]

1 hour ago, HotHW said:

I think what viewers want to see is her not only say it, but do it. Monique can say shes learned to control herself and she's in therapy bla bla bla, and since shes not getting up to beat anyones ass on stage we have no choice right now but to believe her. 

Candiace on the other had admits to having a mouth (being a wordsmith and all BWAHAHAA), and admits to her part in things but then sits on stage and continues to run her big nasty mouth just as badly as she did during the season. 

What we've seen this season is when Candiace actually does walk away and not engage, the viewers still want her ass beat anyway.

Monique cries crocodile tears about going to therapy and changing but she still as of 2 days ago  is dragging Candiace on social media and said on this last episode she wanted to fight Candiace again for what Candiace said to Karen.  Monique will not change and neither will Candiace.

A lot of victims of bullying are unlikeable people that nobody cares about.    Yes, we know bullying is "wrong" but we don't like that victim, they violated our societal norms in some way and they need to go away.  Bullying is the tool to make that person "go away."  It doesn't matter what Candiace does or what she says, the only acceptable way for Candiace to "accept responsibility" and "take accountability" is for Candiace to announce she deserved to get her ass beat by Monique and then quit the show and go away and never be heard or seen again.  

Quote

So the only one at the reunion who proved herself full of shit is Candice IMO.

The people who were full of shit at the reunion were as follows:

• Monique, for feigning contrition on this last episode when she is not sorry at all and would beat Candiace's ass TODAY if she could
• Gizelle, for feigning like she wasn't gossiping about Monique's baby for revenge on Monique destroying her relationship with Sherman
• Ashley, for feigning like her marriage is "better than ever" and defending Michael when we've seen season after season him assaulting somebody or cheating
• Karen, for feigning like she was neutral and "so concerned" about Candiace but went to BRAVO HR to get her fired from the show

Candiace wasn't the one full of shit.

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

Two women, up in each others faces, in each others personal space, acting aggressive, popping off at the mouth, hands crossing boundaries??? and only one is considered at fault???

Yes, the one who started the physical touching (Monique) is at fault.

I love these stories about people claiming that's just how it is, if somebody is nasty to you then you hit them.  Stop it.  When your manager at work chews you out, when the checker at the grocery store is rude, when the drive-thru girl is rude, you're not fighting them.  Stop it.  You seethe about it, tweet about it and move on.  You're not fighting anyone.  You're not dragging anyone.  Stop it.  It's just puffery.

The state of Maryland dismissed the charges because 1) this is a TV show fight 2) the only way charges would've proceeded against Monique is if Candiace had let Monique rip her wig off and let Monique keep slamming her head in the table without doing anything.  The moment Candiace swung the glass at Monique in self defense, it became a "mutual fight".  That's why Michael didn't punch/push Chris B. when Chris pushed him and started screaming "I BEEN ASSAULTED YOU GOIN TO JAIL".  He was trying to build a case against Chris B. and that case would've been dismissed if Michael had pushed him back (even though Michael touched Chris B. FIRST).

52 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

You see that's what's wrong with society now a days people truly believe they can be verbally abusive and not filter themselves cause at the end of the day NO ONE should ever become physical. Which to be honest, I agree with wholeheartedly. I completely disagree with ever putting hands on someone and advocate WALKING AWAY and being the bigger person

What's wrong with society is people feel they should be able to be physically violent with no consequences and that's just not how it works.  There is a higher consequence for putting your hands on somebody than there is for mouthing off.  It's just what it is.  

Monique and her supporters are upset that Candiace is not facing the same consequences that Monique is facing.  The fact of the matter is, being mouthy isn't a crime.  Being nasty isn't a crime.  It's just not.  Monique doesn't have a mouth and couldn't come back at Candiace so she used her fists.  That IS a crime.  Not one person on this forum, YouTube, social media or whatever is slapping up their coworkers for having a smart mouth.  You're not.  Because you know if you did, you'd be fired.

Monique actually beat a woman up and managed a social media bullying campaign against the woman she beat up and got away with it.  The average everyday person talking about "Talk shit, get hit" or "I grew up in the streets" or "Back in my hood" won't.

33 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Oh yeah, they both were running their mouths and they BOTH were recklessly crossing personal space with little dainty hand flicks and such and that's why in my eyes (and the courts apparently) it was a MUTUAL altercation.

But only one of them put her hands on the other and that person was Monique.  it was only a mutual altercation when Candiace swung the glass at Monique in self defense.

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Robyn and Juan got engaged what... a year ago? Isn’t that when the show aired? And the reunion was filmed last month and they’re still not married. Doesn’t look like Juan’s in any hurry to marry her to me. Wondering if the engagement and ring were just a stall?

Robyn got engaged the same time I got engaged.  She's not married and neither am I and it's because of a thing called COVID-19.  I had to cancel my wedding (guest list: 3) because of COVID.  It's just not safe.  If you were planning a wedding in 2020, you got screwed.  2021 brides are going to be screwed too.  She might not have wanted to be like Cynthia of RHOA and have a super spreader wedding and expose her parents to the Rona.  She said she wanted to have a destination wedding but very few countries are opening their doors to Americans (with good reason). They're already living together so they can get married whenever they want.  The speed of Juan marrying her isn't reflective of Robyn's worth.

8 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

ow it will be about if Karen and Ray DONT do a vow renewal on this show

I think Karen will be on the hot seat next season because I've been saying this for a while now, she was never neutral between Monique and Candiace.  Now we find out she was calling BRAVO HR to get Candiace off the show by claiming Candiace was violent and she felt scared.  We know she wanted Wendy off the show.  I still say I think Karen also wrote a statement against Candiace to the Montgomery Courts and I do think Monique, Ashley and Karen conspired to get Candiace removed from the show.  Most of the drama and tension this season was lowkey fueled by Karen.  Monique is gone, Ashley will get a pass for being pregnant but Karen's got a lot to answer for next season and the cast shouldn't let the BS vow renewal distract from that.

1 minute ago, Yours Truly said:

Absolutely!!  BUUUUUTTTT they BOTH were being reckless with their hands. They BOTH crossed personal space and BOTH were being aggressive and threatening towards the other. 

But only one of them actually put her hands on the other FIRST and that was Monique. That was a crime.  Waving fingers in personal space is not.  Monique  crossed the line and only because she was on a reality show and her victim is unlikeable did she get away with it.

[Legalbeagle421]

7 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

What we've seen this season is when Candiace actually does walk away and not engage, the viewers still want her ass beat anyway.

Monique cries crocodile tears about going to therapy and changing but she still as of 2 days ago  is dragging Candiace on social media and said on this last episode she wanted to fight Candiace again for what Candiace said to Karen.  Monique will not change and neither will Candiace.

A lot of victims of bullying are unlikeable people that nobody cares about.    Yes, we know bullying is "wrong" but we don't like that victim, they violated our societal norms in some way and they need to go away.  Bullying is the tool to make that person "go away."  It doesn't matter what Candiace does or what she says, the only acceptable way for Candiace to "accept responsibility" and "take accountability" is for Candiace to announce she deserved to get her ass beat by Monique and then quit the show and go away and never be heard or seen again.  

The people who were full of shit at the reunion were as follows:

• Monique, for feigning contrition on this last episode when she is not sorry at all and would beat Candiace's ass TODAY if she could
• Gizelle, for feigning like she wasn't gossiping about Monique's baby for revenge on Monique destroying her relationship with Sherman
• Ashley, for feigning like her marriage is "better than ever" and defending Michael when we've seen season after season him assaulting somebody or cheating
• Karen, for feigning like she was neutral and "so concerned" about Candiace but went to BRAVO HR to get her fired from the show

Candiace wasn't the one full of shit.

Yes, the one who started the physical touching (Monique) is at fault.

I love these stories about people claiming that's just how it is, if somebody is nasty to you then you hit them.  Stop it.  When your manager at work chews you out, when the checker at the grocery store is rude, when the drive-thru girl is rude, you're not fighting them.  Stop it.  You seethe about it, tweet about it and move on.  You're not fighting anyone.  You're not dragging anyone.  Stop it.  It's just puffery.

The state of Maryland dismissed the charges because 1) this is a TV show fight 2) the only way charges would've proceeded against Monique is if Candiace had let Monique rip her wig off and let Monique keep slamming her head in the table without doing anything.  The moment Candiace swung the glass at Monique in self defense, it became a "mutual fight".  That's why Michael didn't punch/push Chris B. when Chris pushed him and started screaming "I BEEN ASSAULTED YOU GOIN TO JAIL".  He was trying to build a case against Chris B. and that case would've been dismissed if Michael had pushed him back (even though Michael touched Chris B. FIRST).

What's wrong with society is people feel they should be able to be physically violent with no consequences and that's just not how it works.  There is a higher consequence for putting your hands on somebody than there is for mouthing off.  It's just what it is.  

Monique and her supporters are upset that Candiace is not facing the same consequences that Monique is facing.  The fact of the matter is, being mouthy isn't a crime.  Being nasty isn't a crime.  It's just not.  Monique doesn't have a mouth and couldn't come back at Candiace so she used her fists.  That IS a crime.  Not one person on this forum, YouTube, social media or whatever is slapping up their coworkers for having a smart mouth.  You're not.  Because you know if you did, you'd be fired.

Monique actually beat a woman up and managed a social media bullying campaign against the woman she beat up and got away with it.  The average everyday person talking about "Talk shit, get hit" or "I grew up in the streets" or "Back in my hood" won't.

But only one of them put her hands on the other and that person was Monique.  it was only a mutual altercation when Candiace swung the glass at Monique in self defense.

Robyn got engaged the same time I got engaged.  She's not married and neither am I and it's because of a thing called COVID-19.  I had to cancel my wedding (guest list: 3) because of COVID.  It's just not safe.  If you were planning a wedding in 2020, you got screwed.  2021 brides are going to be screwed too.  She might not have wanted to be like Cynthia of RHOA and have a super spreader wedding and expose her parents to the Rona.  She said she wanted to have a destination wedding but very few countries are opening their doors to Americans (with good reason). They're already living together so they can get married whenever they want.  The speed of Juan marrying her isn't reflective of Robyn's worth.

I think Karen will be on the hot seat next season because I've been saying this for a while now, she was never neutral between Monique and Candiace.  Now we find out she was calling BRAVO HR to get Candiace off the show by claiming Candiace was violent and she felt scared.  We know she wanted Wendy off the show.  I still say I think Karen also wrote a statement against Candiace to the Montgomery Courts and I do think Monique, Ashley and Karen conspired to get Candiace removed from the show.  Most of the drama and tension this season was lowkey fueled by Karen.  Monique is gone, Ashley will get a pass for being pregnant but Karen's got a lot to answer for next season and the cast shouldn't let the BS vow renewal distract from that.

But only one of them actually put her hands on the other FIRST and that was Monique. That was a crime.  Waving fingers in personal space is not.  Monique  crossed the line and only because she was on a reality show and her victim is unlikeable did she get away with it.

I love everything about this post. I also figured Juan and Robyn were delayed in their wedding plans due to COViD. Robyn also just has a lack of urgency about her anyway lol. I never took them not being married yet as a sign of a problem. I have friends who have had 2-year engagements. Not everyone is in a rush, especially when you’ve already done it before and had two kids already lol.

 

[Yours Truly]

14 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

 

But only one of them actually put her hands on the other FIRST and that was Monique. That was a crime.  Waving fingers in personal space is not.  Monique  crossed the line and only because she was on a reality show and her victim is unlikeable did she get away with it.

The courts disagreed tho?

Plus the footage show BOTH of them making contact with the other in really small ways but contact was made BEFORE Candace swung the glass.

I mean that's what I'm basing my feelings on.

I could have sworn they showed someone (Monique) flick someone's hair and then the other (Candace) flick the other on the chest. 

These may have been minimal acts but it shows that there was a willingness to escalate the issue on BOTH parts and as I've mentioned I'm not one to wait for a punch in the face to act. If you're showing me that you're willing to involve hands then I'm upping the ante and punching you square in the face so I can end it before it even starts. If we going there then I'm taking the express. I'm not about to go round for round like this a Rocky movie. 

Apparently the courts found that both parties were at fault enough to not lay full responsibility to one person. There's attack and then there's an altercation. 

I'm honestly not a fan of violence but I'm also not about to clutch my pearls over two women who had it out with each other because they both had had enough of each other.  

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Yours Truly

[HotHW]

13 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

 

I'm honestly not a fan of violence but I'm also not about to clutch my pearls over two women who had it out with each other because they both had had enough of each other.  

 

This.

Candiace got lucky when she went after Ashley with the knife because she had her husband to physically pick her up and remove her from the room. That's not someone with self control. That's a lunatic who's first thought was to go for a weapon and lunge at someone when their verbal altercation got a little too heated for her. Candice may like to think shes a better person than Monique but that's far from the truth. They're more alike than anyone else on this show.

I've personally never been in a fight, but have have some arguments with folks. Never picked up a weapon, never waved my hand near their face, never touched their hair, never screamed for them to "drag me".  You know why...because I'd be too scared that they might take me up on it. Candaice thought someone was gonna pick her up and safely tuck her away after running her wordsmith mouth and instead Candice was left alone had to back up her words. And here we are. And yet after all that shes still running her mouth on tv and social media. 

As for her husband, I think what he meant by wanting his wife back was wanting to go back to a life before this altercation and his wife spending 24/7 talking about it ad nauseam. If this had been 2 men we'd be sitting here laughing at what babies they were for crying over something so stupid. 

[HotHW]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

I disagree.  I dont believe monique is in therapy and if she is she isnt taking it seriously.  

She "doesn't express herself emotionally" or whatever and that's why she can't show emotions over what she did to candace.  

Two seconds later monique is "crying" because her dad stuck his finger in her face.  Guess she CAN get emotional.....when she is the victim. 

I give candace a pass for talking shit at the reunion because this is the first time she has been in a safe space with the person who attacked her physically and online for a year....the same person who continued to make up excuses and avoid any responsibility.

  Monique is still low key blaming everyone else.  Its her dad, its her lawyer, its the other kids at school 30 years ago, she doesn't know that blogger, its her therapist, its "legal", she only innocently told a family member and she definitely didn't ask them to leak it. 

Just to clarify, I have no clue if she's in therapy. I just threw that in as it's the usual expected Braco response, that someone does something wrong and they're now in therapy, anger management etc etc.

As for Candiace, she hardly sat back quietly for the last year. Even Andy called her out on that one. 

I wish they would have left Monique as she was. She is clearly not sorry. She has her reasons as to why she's not sorry. She barely spoke initially about it because she clearly didn't want to apologize. Ok, so be it. Whether we think that makes her an asshole or not. But instead they go on and on and on about her non-apology, her not acting remorseful, to the point that she finally comes out with some bullshit apology that they then sit and tear apart. She's not sorry. Good for her. Move on. She just looks worse now trying to make her non-apology seem authentic. I've done plenty of stuff I'm sure others think I should be sorry for. And some I've caved and apologized for and some I haven't and I have my reasons. Life goes on. 

[drivethroo]

9 minutes ago, HotHW said:

If this had been 2 men we'd be sitting here laughing at what babies they were for crying over something so stupid. 

32 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I could have sworn they showed someone (Monique) flick someone's hair and then the other (Candace) flick the other on the chest. 

Monique put her hands on Candiace FIRST.  That elevated the interaction to a crime.  Waving fingers in the face is NOT a crime.  Yes, Candiace flicked Monique's lapel but she would not have touched Monique's lapel had Monique not put her hands on Candiace's body and flicked her hair.

The courts threw it out because Candiace swung the wine glass at Monique in self defense instead of letting Monique rip her wig off and keep slamming her head in the table.  If Candiace had done that, Monique probably would've been doing some community service.

32 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

If you're showing me that you're willing to involve hands then I'm upping the ante and punching you square in the face so I can end it before it even starts.

And you will be the one facing charges without the protection of being a character on a reality show because you had the choice to walk away but instead decided to punch someone first.

32 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

'm honestly not a fan of violence but I'm also not about to clutch my pearls over two women who had it out with each other because they both had had enough of each other.  

Many of the RHOP viewers actually ARE fans of violence and I wish people would be honest with themselves and others and admit that instead of this mealy mouthed "Violence is wrong, but..."

Either violence is wrong or violence is right.  If people say "Talk shit, get hit" or "Where I'm from, if you say 'drag me' then you need to get dragged" or "In the streets, if you have a reckless mouth you get beat" or "I'mma punch you before you punch me" then that person believes violence is right.

You can't believe Monique is wrong or violence is not the answer but then say Candiace/People deserve to get beat for having slick mouths.  

9 minutes ago, HotHW said:

Candiace got lucky when she went after Ashley with the knife because she had her husband to physically pick her up and remove her from the room. That's not someone with self control.

Ashley was provoking Candiace, so she deserved to get attacked with the knife, right?

I will agree Candiace doesn't have self control.  Neither does Monique.  Both of them are two sides of the same coin (just like Gizelle & Karen are two sides of the same coin).

9 minutes ago, HotHW said:

I've personally never been in a fight, but have have some arguments with folks. Never picked up a weapon, never waved my hand near their face, never touched their hair, never screamed for them to "drag me".  You know why...because I'd be too scared that they might take me up on it.

If you're that scared, you shouldn't be arguing with them at all.

We can't blast Candiace for crying about the fight 24/7 ad nauseum but applaud Monique for boasting about it 24/7 ad nauseum.  Monique also wasn't the one who had bloggers calling up her husband's ex-wife to harass the ex-wife and her kids.  And her mom, and her sister etc.

9 minutes ago, HotHW said:

If this had been 2 men we'd be sitting here laughing at what babies they were for crying over something so stupid. 

Like Chris Samuels crying over it, steaming mad for 2 years and cussing out Charrisse at the Safeway?  

 

1 minute ago, HotHW said:

As for Candiace, she hardly sat back quietly for the last year. Even Andy called her out on that one. 

So Candiace should've accepted her beating and been quiet?

We can't tell Candiace to be quiet about Monique beating her but cheer Monique making a song about beating Candiace with accompanying music video...that premiered 2 days ago.

If Candiace needs to be quiet, then Monique also needs to be quiet.  The reason why things are where they are now is because Monique wouldn't be quiet about the fight.

[Yours Truly]

6 minutes ago, HotHW said:

This.

Candiace got lucky when she went after Ashley with the knife because she had her husband to physically pick her up and remove her from the room. That's not someone with self control. That's a lunatic who's first thought was to go for a weapon and lunge at someone when their verbal altercation got a little too heated for her. Candice may like to think shes a better person than Monique but that's far from the truth. They're more alike than anyone else on this show.

I've personally never been in a fight, but have have some arguments with folks. Never picked up a weapon, never waved my hand near their face, never touched their hair, never screamed for them to "drag me".  You know why...because I'd be too scared that they might take me up on it. Candaice thought someone was gonna pick her up and safely tuck her away after running her wordsmith mouth and instead Candice was left alone had to back up her words. And here we are. And yet after all that shes still running her mouth on tv and social media. 

As for her husband, I think what he meant by wanting his wife back was wanting to go back to a life before this altercation and his wife spending 24/7 talking about it ad nauseam. If this had been 2 men we'd be sitting here laughing at what babies they were for crying over something so stupid. 

THANK YOU!!!

Candace ain't no shrinking violet. She subscribes to the same subscription as Monique. Difference is Monique holds the Gold Membership whereas Candace's is still at the Basic level. She threw her hat in the ring unprepared and reaped the consequences. Simple as that. They both WILLINGLY got down in the dirt and my biggest gripe with Monique is how she's handled it after the fact. 

Her spinning has got me dizzy and disappointed. Girlfriend, just say in that moment it got gully and you acted accordingly. And that Candace can deny it all she wants but that girl anted up, they played a hand and she got rocked. And We ALL shaking our heads at the ugly display but what can you do? Que cera cera. End of story.  

 

[Yours Truly]

8 minutes ago, HotHW said:

Just to clarify, I have no clue if she's in therapy. I just threw that in as it's the usual expected Braco response, that someone does something wrong and they're now in therapy, anger management etc etc.

As for Candiace, she hardly sat back quietly for the last year. Even Andy called her out on that one. 

I wish they would have left Monique as she was. She is clearly not sorry. She has her reasons as to why she's not sorry. She barely spoke initially about it because she clearly didn't want to apologize. Ok, so be it. Whether we think that makes her an asshole or not. But instead they go on and on and on about her non-apology, her not acting remorseful, to the point that she finally comes out with some bullshit apology that they then sit and tear apart. She's not sorry. Good for her. Move on. She just looks worse now trying to make her non-apology seem authentic. I've done plenty of stuff I'm sure others think I should be sorry for. And some I've caved and apologized for and some I haven't and I have my reasons. Life goes on. 

YEEEESSSS! 

Same here!

 

[Yours Truly]

8 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

 

The courts threw it out because Candiace swung the wine glass at Monique in self defense instead of letting Monique rip her wig off and keep slamming her head in the table.  If Candiace had done that, Monique probably would've been doing some community service.

And you will be the one facing charges without the protection of being a character on a reality show because you had the choice to walk away but instead decided to punch someone first.

Many of the RHOP viewers actually ARE fans of violence and I wish people would be honest with themselves and others and admit that instead of this mealy mouthed "Violence is wrong, but..."

Either violence is wrong or violence is right.  If people say "Talk shit, get hit" or "Where I'm from, if you say 'drag me' then you need to get dragged" or "In the streets, if you have a reckless mouth you get beat" or "I'mma punch you before you punch me" then that person believes violence is right.

You can't believe Monique is wrong or violence is not the answer but then say Candiace/People deserve to get beat for having slick mouths.  

Ashley was provoking Candiace, so she deserved to get attacked with the knife, right?

I will agree Candiace doesn't have self control.  Neither does Monique.  Both of them are two sides of the same coin (just like Gizelle & Karen are two sides of the same coin).

If you're that scared, you shouldn't be arguing with them at all.

We can't blast Candiace for crying about the fight 24/7 ad nauseum but applaud Monique for boasting about it 24/7 ad nauseum.  Monique also wasn't the one who had bloggers calling up her husband's ex-wife to harass the ex-wife and her kids.  And her mom, and her sister etc.

Like Chris Samuels crying over it, steaming mad for 2 years and cussing out Charrisse at the Safeway?  

 

So Candiace should've accepted her beating and been quiet?

We can't tell Candiace to be quiet about Monique beating her but cheer Monique making a song about beating Candiace with accompanying music video...that premiered 2 days ago.

If Candiace needs to be quiet, then Monique also needs to be quiet.  The reason why things are where they are now is because Monique wouldn't be quiet about the fight.

I don't believe they threw it out because of the wine glass. I think they threw it out because there was an equal amount of threatening and physical behavior displayed by both of them at the same time.

Life isn't just is or isn't... There are levels believe it or not. Punching someone in the face in order to PROTECT me from getting punch in the face is not some stain on my character. Aggressive body language isn't okay. Threatening behavior isn't okay. That's considered abusive and it is NOT benign and this attempt at diffusing that sort of harmful behavior does no one any good. People who engage in such tactics are not absolved just because someone else felt threatened enough to physically defend themselves. People need to be accountable for their parts in any given situation and I think trying to lay everything at Moniques feet really ignores Candace's VERY bad behavior as well. I'm not willing to give Candace a pass because of that technicality.  Sorry, no can do. 

 

[RealReality]

13 minutes ago, HotHW said:

Just to clarify, I have no clue if she's in therapy. I just threw that in as it's the usual expected Braco response, that someone does something wrong and they're now in therapy, anger management etc etc.

As for Candiace, she hardly sat back quietly for the last year. Even Andy called her out on that one. 

I wish they would have left Monique as she was. She is clearly not sorry. She has her reasons as to why she's not sorry. She barely spoke initially about it because she clearly didn't want to apologize. Ok, so be it. Whether we think that makes her an asshole or not. But instead they go on and on and on about her non-apology, her not acting remorseful, to the point that she finally comes out with some bullshit apology that they then sit and tear apart. She's not sorry. Good for her. Move on. She just looks worse now trying to make her non-apology seem authentic. I've done plenty of stuff I'm sure others think I should be sorry for. And some I've caved and apologized for and some I haven't and I have my reasons. Life goes on. 

I think had she just said she wasn't sorry that might have been the end of it.  She would have gotten looks and consternation but at the end of the day if all you're gonna say is "I'm just not sorry" over and over.. its going to get boring.  

But, as is the SOP with monique she instead came up with 5000 excuses and deflections.  

Many of which are so transparent and stupid as to insult.the intelligence.  IMO.  

Its not a boss move, its not a bad bitch move to do something and then try to deny you did it.  Own it.  And monique cannot or will not do it.  

Like, come on, in her first season monique went to social media with some meme of robyn.  Then she denied doing it and it was a team, it was someone else, it was a cousin, monique knew nothing about it.  

Now she doesn't know anything about what anyone said about candace or Chris's kids. 

She didn't write a dissertation track about candace, that was totally about someone else.  

She had nothing to do with leaking a story about candace starting the fight, she just innocently told family member about it.  

With monique , its lie after lie after lie.  Stupid and transparent lies.  

[FozzyBear]

The most surprising thing to me was how easily Ashley got off. Michael was out of control at Robin’s party. But a vacation  a new baby fixes everything? And Andy dedicated 5 minutes to the Darby mess? What was that about?

[nb360]

"To suffer is a choice." -- Funky Dineva:

Review of Part 3, Reunion

[drivethroo]

14 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Life isn't just is or isn't... There are levels believe it or not. Punching someone in the face in order to PROTECT me from getting punch in the face is not some stain on my character. Aggressive body language isn't okay. Threatening behavior isn't okay. That's considered abusive and it is NOT benign and this attempt at diffusing that sort of harmful behavior does no one any good. People who engage in such tactics are not absolved just because someone else felt threatened enough to physically defend themselves. People need to be accountable for their parts in any given situation and I think trying to lay everything at Moniques feet really ignores Candace's VERY bad behavior as well. I'm not willing to give Candace a pass because of that technicality.  Sorry, no can do. 

This goes back to my original point that people want Candiace to face the same consequences as Monique and the fact remains only one of the two of them took it to a criminal level and that was Monique.  Physical violence has a higher price to pay than verbal violence.

14 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I think had she just said she wasn't sorry that might have been the end of it.  She would have gotten looks and consternation but at the end of the day if all you're gonna say is "I'm just not sorry" over and over.. its going to get boring. 

Monique's mistake was the social media campaign against Candiace.  None of the remaining cast was physically scared of Monique but they all knew if she could head up a social media harassment campaign on Candiace, she would do it to them, too.

Quote

The most surprising thing to me was how easily Ashley got off. Michael was out of control at Robin’s party. But a vacation  a new baby fixes everything? And Andy dedicated 5 minutes to the Darby mess? What was that about?

And she's going to get off next season too because she will be 8 months pregnant when they start filming next month, then they'll be hands off because she just gave birth.

Funky Dineva is heavily pro-Monique so I don't want to hear much of anything he has to say.

I will say this again: Monique was wrong for the social media harassment campaign against Candiace. She was.  However, she is right in that if Candiace is so bothered by the nasty comments coming for her on social media, put the phone down.  Candiace has a choice of whether o or not to engage with people coming at her on Twitter or Instagram.  She could turn comments off.  She could block people.  She could turn her social media accounts over to a marketing company.  These people come for her on social media because they know she's Pavlov's dog and will respond to the stimuli (just like "drag me" turns Monique into a rabid dog).

I can't feel too sorry for Candiace's troubles on social media when all she has to do is log off.

 

[amarante]

3 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

 

I will say this again: Monique was wrong for the social media harassment campaign against Candiace. She was.  However, she is right in that if Candiace is so bothered by the nasty comments coming for her on social media, put the phone down.  Candiace has a choice of whether o or not to engage with people coming at her on Twitter or Instagram.  She could turn comments off.  She could block people.  She could turn her social media accounts over to a marketing company.  These people come for her on social media because they know she's Pavlov's dog and will respond to the stimuli (just like "drag me" turns Monique into a rabid dog).

I can't feel too sorry for Candiace's troubles on social media when all she has to do is log off.

 

I don't follow social media unless it somehow reaches regular media.

However, my understanding is that Monique's social media campaign went beyond bitchy tweets but they were also harassing friends and family of Chris and Candiace including actual threats - not just burning in hell type of hyperbole. 

When it reaches that level of harassment - especially to people who are completely uninvolved in the show - it has gone way too far. That was what Chris B was alluding to when he mentioned that "they" were coming after his children

And I do think that Monique could have called off her dogs of war but instead chose to escalate the proxy war.

I am just amazed that anyone thinks that Monique's physical attack on Candiace could be justified or explained or rationalized in any way. It was not tit for tat. From what I saw, if there had not been people actually physically restraining Monique she would have inflicted serious physical harm on Candiace. The only thing that stopped her was that she was physically held back but otherwise I saw a person who was trying to pummel Candiace - not merely just slap her or poke her - objectionable as those might be - but trying to get her on the ground and slam her head down repeatedly.

 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

People hate Candiace because they think she's mouthy and so they were pleased that she got a beatdown for being mouthy. It's not an uncommon attitude towards women who are vocal and won't keep their mouths shut. Bonus for those people who celebrate vocal women getting beat down is that she was beat down by a woman whose entire existence is tied to her marriage and so presents very traditional values of what it means to be a "real woman."  Monique was so very proud of Chris's threats towards Gizelle because that "proves" she won and that her existence as Mrs. Samuels is the most important.

So IMO, we're seeing a lot of internalized misogyny directed at Candiace, with people supporting Monique because they identify more closely with the point of view that Monique - Mrs. Samuels - espouse.  Had the fight been between, say, Gizelle and Candiace, there would not be as much supports towards Gizelle because she isn't aggressively putting herself as a defender of "traditional" values. 

IMO, it's all pretty gross, and has nothing to do with what happens "in the streets." It has much more to do with the fact that our society hates women who aren't meek and are happy to see it when brash women get knocked down a peg, whether physically or metaphorically.  

[RealReality]

48 minutes ago, nb360 said:

"To suffer is a choice." -- Funky Dineva:

Review of Part 3, Reunion

Then I guess monique and chris should choose to stop suffering over "the plot"

Monique should choose.to stop suffering over shit that literally happened 30+ years ago.  

 

2 hours ago, HotHW said:

 

 

[drivethroo]

49 minutes ago, amarante said:

However, my understanding is that Monique's social media campaign went beyond bitchy tweets but they were also harassing friends and family of Chris and Candiace including actual threats - not just burning in hell type of hyperbole. 

When it reaches that level of harassment - especially to people who are completely uninvolved in the show - it has gone way too far. That was what Chris B was alluding to when he mentioned that "they" were coming after his children

And I do think that Monique could have called off her dogs of war but instead chose to escalate the proxy war.

All of this is correct.  Candiace's family and associates were harassed by Monique stans as well as Robyn & Gizelle (Robyn said she's gotten death threats).

However, Candiace does engage back and forth with the people on social media and they are coming for her because they know they can get a reaction out of her.

We can't say Monique needed to have exercise restraint with her fist but excuse Candiace's behavior on social media.  Candiace has choices:

She could throw the padlock on her Twitter/Instagram where only confirmed followers can see her tweets/posts or IG posts

She could turn off comments on her IG

She could hit the block button on Twitter

If she wants to tweet, going private is probably her best best.  Candiace's mother took her accounts private. Robyn doesn't clap back and she got death threats.

She has a choice now.  Monique is not on the show anymore.   If she chooses to keep engaging with people coming for her on Twitter, she has no one to blame but herself.

49 minutes ago, amarante said:

I am just amazed that anyone thinks that Monique's physical attack on Candiace could be justified or explained or rationalized in any way. It was not tit for tat.

Monique did what they aren't going to do in their real lives.

Quote

People hate Candiace because they think she's mouthy and so they were pleased that she got a beatdown for being mouthy. It's not an uncommon attitude towards women who are vocal and won't keep their mouths shut. Bonus for those people who celebrate vocal women getting beat down is that she was beat down by a woman whose entire existence is tied to her marriage and so presents very traditional values of what it means to be a "real woman."  Monique was so very proud of Chris's threats towards Gizelle because that "proves" she won and that her existence as Mrs. Samuels is the most important.

So IMO, we're seeing a lot of internalized misogyny directed at Candiace, with people supporting Monique because they identify more closely with the point of view that Monique - Mrs. Samuels - espouse.  Had the fight been between, say, Gizelle and Candiace, there would not be as much supports towards Gizelle because she isn't aggressively putting herself as a defender of "traditional" values. 

IMO, it's all pretty gross, and has nothing to do with what happens "in the streets." It has much more to do with the fact that our society hates women who aren't meek and are happy to see it when brash women get knocked down a peg, whether physically or metaphorically.  

I also think there's a touch of racism/colorism going on with this as well.   I don't see nearly as many calls for Ashley to receive a beatdown, nor do I think a white castmate would've been said to have "deserved" a beatdown.  YMMV.

Edited December 29, 2020 by drivethroo

[Baltimore Betty]

3 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Monique is not on the show anymore. 

I am confused, I thought she had a contract for next season, I am mistaken?

[Chatty Cake]

The show won’t be as good without Monique. She was entertaining and Chris was adorable with his family. I would have enjoyed seeing him yell at Charisse at the Safeway! 🤣

They are going to have a hard time finding someone as good as Monique. Wendy was good on paper but quite the bore on camera. Gizelle has nothing to offer except gossiping and body guards for no reason. Ashley is married to a creep. It was definitely time for the Darby’s to go. Bravo fired people for being inappropriate but Michael gets to stay? I like Robyn for the most part. Karen is fabulous.  Candiace is horrible with her fake tears. She’s a bitter unhappy thing and has no place on the show. 

 

[RealReality]

25 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I am confused, I thought she had a contract for next season, I am mistaken?

She said she had a contract (speculation is that it was a "friend") contract. 

She signed the contract and then quit after seeing the 3rd part of the reunion. 

I dont know how binding the contract is and if there are penalties for refusing to film. 

Most of this is coming from Monique.  

[Yours Truly]

Candance isn't just mouthy. She's disrespectful and nasty. I'm all about calling the whole ordeal WRONG. I'm not about to act as if I don't understand the dynamic of that moment. I'm not about to pretend that it DOESN'T matter what you say, how you say it and intention. I refuse to push a narrative that suggests what Candace did was acceptable in order to make it a point to call what Monique unacceptable.  I think it's ridiculous to think that one can only cause damage physically. I get that physical violence is way up there but it's just as wrong to deliberately cause mental and emotional damage. I'm saying that, as PEOPLE we ALL KNOW that right or wrong the heat of the moment can and does happen. Add the fact that they were BOTH crossing physical boundaries and well, there you have it. Sure, sure that's unpopular opinion but Monique's actions doesn't automatically make Candance's behavior any more acceptable and I feel like that's what's getting lost in all of this. 

I'm more about demanding that they BOTH acknowledge their wrongdoings than I am about being hell bent on placing everything at Monique's feet. And at the end of the day, what it boils down to is that TWO grown ass women, who should have known better, made bad choices. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Yours Truly

[eleanorofaquitaine]

20 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Candance isn't just mouthy. She's disrespectful and nasty. I'm all about calling the whole ordeal WRONG. I'm not about to act as if I don't understand the dynamic of that moment. I'm not about to pretend that it DOESN'T matter what you say, how you say it and intention. I refuse to push a narrative that suggests what Candace did was acceptable in order to make it a point to call what Monique unacceptable.  I think it's ridiculous to think that one can only cause damage physically. I get that physical violence is way up there but it's just as wrong to deliberately cause mental and emotional damage. I'm saying that, as PEOPLE we ALL KNOW that right or wrong the heat of the moment can and does happen. Add the fact that they were BOTH crossing physical boundaries and well, there you have it. Sure, sure that's unpopular opinion but Monique's actions doesn't automatically make Candance's behavior any more acceptable and I feel like that's what's getting lost in all of this. 

I'm more about demanding that they BOTH acknowledge their wrongdoings than I am about being hell bent on placing everything at Monique's feet. And at the end of the day, what it boils down to is that TWO grown ass women, who should have known better, made bad choices. 

Do tell me, what was this totally unacceptable thing that Candiace did to Monique? What incredibly nasty, abusive thing did Candiace say to Monique? Not Ashley. Not anyone else.  What incredibly abusive thing was it that Candiace said to Monique in that moment that was SO UNFORGIVEABLE that she was justified in pulling her hair, hitting her in the head, threaten to kill her several times, and then go back for more?

Anyway, people like seeing mouthy women get hit, either in truth or metaphorically, and they'll go through a lot of mental hoops to explain why it is that mouthy women deserve to be hit. And yes, drivethroo, I suspect colorism is also playing a role here, too. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Keywestclubkid]

2 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

Chris was adorable with his family. I would have enjoyed seeing him yell at Charisse at the Safeway! 🤣

 

A grown man yelling at any female is gross I’m sorry ... if Candance speaking “disrespectful” to Monique was grounds for her to be hit then vice versa a grown 400+ pound  6 foot something man screaming at a 140 pound 5 foot nothing  woman would deserve a beat down if we are following those rules I don’t care what she said ... leave that shit to your wife man a man shouldn’t approach a female like that ever .. that just is wrong on so many levels... I mean if he was talking about stomping woman’s ass and smacking them in a video calmly imagine how threatening that comes across in person with him towering over you... men don’t use their body to intimidate woman like that ... that’s on a whole different level. If he does that to women who arnt his wife what does he do with Monique when he’s mad? ... I kinda 100% see why G had a bodyguard there the man has made physical threats against women ... he apparently has no problem accosting them in public... both he and his wife need therapy stat Jesus Christ 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[drivethroo]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

Candance isn't just mouthy. She's disrespectful and nasty. I'm all about calling the whole ordeal WRONG. I'm not about to act as if I don't understand the dynamic of that moment. I'm not about to pretend that it DOESN'T matter what you say, how you say it and intention. I refuse to push a narrative that suggests what Candace did was acceptable in order to make it a point to call what Monique unacceptable.  I think it's ridiculous to think that one can only cause damage physically. I get that physical violence is way up there but it's just as wrong to deliberately cause mental and emotional damage. I'm saying that, as PEOPLE we ALL KNOW that right or wrong the heat of the moment can and does happen. Add the fact that they were BOTH crossing physical boundaries and well, there you have it. Sure, sure that's unpopular opinion but Monique's actions doesn't automatically make Candance's behavior any more acceptable and I feel like that's what's getting lost in all of this. 

What did Candiace say this season to Monique that was disrespectful, nasty and warranted a beating? Goood niiiiight, I'm sleep, I'm bored or I love Monique even when she's sleep? Or I apologize?  Because that's seriously all Candiace has been saying to Monique this entire season.

If you say Candiace is nasty and disrespectful in general and needed that beating, who should beat up Gizelle?  Ashley? Karen?

38 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

A grown ass man yelling at any female is gross I’m sorry ... if Candance speaking “disrespectful” to Monique was grounds for her to be hit then vice versa a grown 400 pound  6 foot something man screaming at a 140 pound 5 foot noting woman would deserve a beat down if we are following those rules I don’t care what she said

If Charrisse had thrown a can of Bush's Baked Beans upside Chris' head for talking to her disrespectful in the Safeway, that would be ok, right?

41 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I kinda 100% see why G had a bodyguard there the man has made physical threats against women ... he apparently has no problem accosting them in public... both he and his wife need therapy stat Jesus Christ 

It's one reason why people like Monique make a big deal out of having a man next to you: women who don't have men are perceived to be without protection.  Most men (in my observation) generally don't try women they know have a man nearby to check him.  Monique's binder stunt wouldn't have had the impact it had if Jamal had shown up and Chris S. wouldn't have barked at Robyn if Juan had been sitting there.

[Keywestclubkid]

5 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

 

If Charrisse had thrown a can of Bush's Baked Beans upside Chris' head for talking to her disrespectful in the Safeway, that would be ok, right?

 

When a 400+Pound  6+foot man standing over you screaming yes... that would be a situation where she felt physically unsafe... at no point did Monique feel “unsafe” she was actively antagonistic and touching on Candance it’s a totally different animal all together... a man should NEVER approach a woman like that .. especially with the woman being at such a physical disadvantage .. the more I think about it the more Chris is perfectly fine with being threatening towards women and that just doesn’t appear out of nowhere... is he worse then that in private?

Edited December 29, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[TexasGal]

We are, once again, in dead horse territory with analyzing the fight and the intricacies of Monique’s and Candiace’s personalities and actions.  If you want to analyze either woman or their spouses, please take it to their individual threads.  

[Keywestclubkid]

Just now, TexasGal said:

We are, once again, in dead horse territory with analyzing the fight and the intricacies of Monique’s and Candiace’s personalities and actions.  If you want to analyze either woman or their spouses, please take it to their individual threads.  

Got it 🙂 

[bichonblitz]

Candiass with those mother effing tissue squares dabbing at her eyes the entire part 3. Phony ass. She commanded the reunion and loved every minute of it. I'm sure she thinks this puts her in the Queen of Potomac stratosphere next season. I won't be watching for that. 

[Jeopardy15]

21 hours ago, RealReality said:

Finally finished!

1. I noticed that Monique managed to eek out a few tears.....for herself.....

2. Also notice that the second Monique managed to croak out an apology she was right back to blaming everyone else for her actions

3. If Monique feels justified in what she is doing why doesn't she admit to it.  She always has someone else to blame for her actions.....her dad, some random family member she said something to, a blogger she knowing NOTHING ABOUT.  

4.  I'm fine with Andy dragging Monique because she has a way of trying to wriggle out of any and all accountability, as she is on social media and surrounded by sycophants.  She really thinks that she is smarter than everyone else because the people around her buy her nonsense.  

a. she couldn't apologize to Candace because it was "legal" but when it wasn't legal she still couldn't apologize

b. her actions were wrong, but she had to write a diss rap about it and somehow it was her therapists fault

c. apologizing to candace was a bad  idea legally, but releasing a rap song publicly was a great legal idea.  Did she run any of that by her lawyer, because it doesn't sound like a good idea.

5.  I play checkers, so I do not understand this plot at all and why it required all this drama.  Chase is VERY CLEARLY Chris's son, in 15 years he will still be Chris's son.  In 15 years no one in the general population is going to care about this dumb rumor that Chase isn't Chris's son.  The only people who MIGHT be talking about it are the same people who were always talking about it before it was on the show, which are people in their immediate area.  They went through all this trouble NOT to put the rumor on national TV....and then they both spent the reunion...putting the rumor on national TV?

5b.  Again, only playing chinese checkers here, but wouldn't the easiest way to squash the rumor been to address it, instead of letting innuendo fly around?

6.  Monique was shitty to Candace the entire season and plotted to get her off the show, but she expected loyalty from her and for Candace to run to her and tell her about some half baked rumor that is as stupid as it sounds. 

7. I almost feel sorry for Ashley, but this is the life she chose.  I hope she gets a Christmas bonus in her weekly check for defending a sexual predator on national TV.

8.  Chris and Candace are sweet.  He is broke, he has kids, but I think she is happy and that he is the right man for her.   Online cooking classes sound fun (if I cooked). 

9. WHERE ARE THE HELL ARE YOUR HATS ROBYN!?!?!??

10. Ray is right, all of the acclaim is going to Karen's head.  She has a way to go, but trying to get someone fired because they dared to talk back to you feels VERY Nene Leakes.  

11. Karen is full of shit, but she sounds so sincere.  I hope Candace won't fall for Karen's fake motherly ploy again.  

ALL OF THIS!!!

[Yours Truly]

20 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Do tell me, what was this totally unacceptable thing that Candiace did to Monique? What incredibly nasty, abusive thing did Candiace say to Monique? Not Ashley. Not anyone else.  What incredibly abusive thing was it that Candiace said to Monique in that moment that was SO UNFORGIVEABLE that she was justified in pulling her hair, hitting her in the head, threaten to kill her several times, and then go back for more?

Anyway, people like seeing mouthy women get hit, either in truth or metaphorically, and they'll go through a lot of mental hoops to explain why it is that mouthy women deserve to be hit. And yes, drivethroo, I suspect colorism is also playing a role here, too. 

See, to me, it ain't for all that. 

I'm saying that Candance is nasty and disrespectful on the regular. I also outlined what I felt about how THAT moment unfolded. It ain't that deep and to me it's pretty obvious what happened. Two hot under the collar chicks had an altercation. Both acting fools, both writing checks and both showing out. 

All I know is I ain't confused about the ordeal. Not surprised either. Not rocket science. Don't start none won't be none. Pretty simple actually. But that's just me. LOL.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Yours Truly

[byrd]

On 12/29/2020 at 12:13 AM, qtpye said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have never seen anyone try so hard to undermine themselves so badly.

Monique came into this season in a very enviable position of being rich, beautiful, and having both lovely children and a caring husband.

She came off down to earth and likable and was probably one of the most popular housewives around. She was almost like the Princess Diana of this franchise in that most of the audience really like her and wanted her to succeed.

The truth is she fucked herself over with her own stupidity. If she was smart she would have let her cast mates run with the rumor (which NO ONE believed) and made themselves look like assholes.

It was stupid as hell to attack Candiass because Candiass has nothing to lose. People hate Candiass, no matter what, and Monique just looked like an unhinged maniac.

It makes me realize that Monique might be a control freak but she is not a sophisticated thinker. She handled the situation stupidly and got herself kicked off the show.

Ya'll, I CRINGED SO BADLY when Chris Samuels made the remark about playing chess...no, Chris,...you are playing Candy Land in the dark all by yourself.

Chris Samuels seems like good guy. It fascinates me that he could crush me in the palm of his hand but seems as harmless as a cuddly teddy bear. I feel bad that he will no longer be able to play with white Chris...they seemed to be good friends.

I know some people think Gizelle is hated because she is light skinned (and yes some people probably do dislike her for that) but Ashley, Robyn, and Karen are also light skinned and do not get the same amount of hate.

I think it is because Gizelle has an air of superiority about herself and probably has had pretty girl privileges all her life. Karen does do the Grand Dame thing, but she seems to be in on the joke.

Anyway, I bet now that Monique is gone that they might let Karen bring in someone to be her "friend" (kind of like the way Candiass brought in Wendy) to even out the cast.

Monique being off the show is good and she should stay away from reality tv forever. I will miss not seeing any more of her fabulous lifestyle...she was the only one with any real money.

 

I so agree about Monique. The only reason I starting the Housewives franchise was to see the lifestyle of the rich. I as well enjoyed seeing her lifestyle ,regardless I will miss Monique, I hate she let this this happen.   

[laprin]

On 12/29/2020 at 11:25 AM, lasu said:

A mutually agreed on fight is how it started - when they were both using only their words.  Some people believe that if you run your mouth too much, you deserve to get hit.  I am not one of those people. I know we don't all believe in the same social contracts, but I think Candiace and I subscribe to the same one (and FUCK THIS SHOW for making me say that).  No matter how much I wound you with my words, you are only allowed to wound me back with your words.  If you lose the battle of mouths, you may not introduce fists.  Just like if two people agree to fight with fists, if you start to lose, you can't pull out a knife.  In a knife fight, you can't escalate to guns.  If you do, you because the person who is Next Level Wrong.  Monique and Canidace started out Same Level Wrong, both acting like a pair of assholes.  But Monique escalated it to the next level.  She broke the social contract I believe in.  Some people absolutely believe in a social contract that if you can't beat someone with your words, you fucking drag them to make them stop using their words.  I'm not saying who is right and who is wrong, but I would never want to hang out with someone who believes it's acceptable to answer words with fists.  

I also loved the slink out, and thought everyone was having fun with it in that moment.

Agree 100% on the social contract. Because Monique broke it, the other ladies had every right to freeze her out and Bravo may have ended up in a lawsuit if the women no longer felt safe around her. I know I would not want to be around someone who gets triggered because she got bested with words. Most of those women could beat Monique in a contest of words.  

 

[laprin]

On 12/29/2020 at 3:26 PM, Chatty Cake said:

The show won’t be as good without Monique. She was entertaining and Chris was adorable with his family.  

 

Before this season, I liked Monique but found her pretty boring. I can’t think of any season where she really brought anything to the show other than this one. I find the scenes of her at home boring and the way Chris speaks to her kind of skeeves me out. He seems controlling and the type that demands sex all the time. I don’t find that adorable. 

[RedHawk]

The most interesting thing about Monique was T'Challa.

[nexxie]

On 12/29/2020 at 3:30 PM, RealReality said:

She said she had a contract (speculation is that it was a "friend") contract. 

She signed the contract and then quit after seeing the 3rd part of the reunion. 

I dont know how binding the contract is and if there are penalties for refusing to film. 

Most of this is coming from Monique.  

Really? She was planning to stay on the show until she saw the third part of the reunion? What exchange or moment changed her mind? Can’t think of anything new there.

[emmawoodhouse]

23 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Really? She was planning to stay on the show until she saw the third part of the reunion? What exchange or moment changed her mind? Can’t think of anything new there.

Maybe because Bravo didn't show her dragging Gizzard for two hours? 

[drivethroo]

44 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Really? She was planning to stay on the show until she saw the third part of the reunion? What exchange or moment changed her mind? Can’t think of anything new there.

Chris probably didn't like how Gizelle/show was trying to make him out to be the scary black man with the bodyguard, the Bruce Jenner wish and acting scared when he got up.

No one would own up to the rumor and apparently Monique laid into Gizelle for a while and that was not shown.

Chris probably told Monique, "Naw, they're depicting me as the Scary Black Man, You as Thug Misses, lying on My Child, they gave you a sorry contract and they're gonna be all up in our business next season.  I don't want nothing to do with none of them.  If I give you more of an allowance for the podcast and your business, will you quit the show?"

 

[nb360]

22 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Monique laid into Gizelle for a while and that was not shown.

Can you provide a link for this? I'm curious to see what else was said. It would explain why Gizelle was so quiet (despondent?) for most of the reunion.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Franklin the Turtle Samuels and Mo are equally yolked. 

Mama Samuels was probably home saying I warned u about that heffa.

 

[RealReality]

5 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Franklin the Turtle Samuels and Mo are equally yolked. 

Mama Samuels was probably home saying I warned u about that heffa.

 

I hope she upgraded to a hoverround for her victory laps!

 

[drivethroo]

1 hour ago, nb360 said:

Can you provide a link for this? I'm curious to see what else was said. It would explain why Gizelle was so quiet (despondent?) for most of the reunion.

There is no link.  Monique said that she laid into Gizelle and while Monique's word isn't really to be trusted, it had been said in various media that the entire cast dragged Gizelle and Gizelle herself said they were coming for her and she had a meltdown, but none of that was shown.

We did see previews of Chris Samuels getting up on the women and Andy shouting for him to sit down and I don't think that was shown either.

There was probably a lot that wasn't shown.  If you know that A & B happened at the reunion but they only show A (which is against you), then you get the hint real quick.

[LaurelleJ]

Bravo should charge money to see the whole unedited 11 hours of the reunion taping. I bet it's a hoot and a half. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by LaurelleJ

[nb360]

OMG. You're right especially when Rich Chris rolls his eyes!

3 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Franklin the Turtle Samuels

Edited December 31, 2020 by nb360

[Stats Queen]

1 hour ago, LaurelleJ said:

Bravo should charge money to see the whole unedited 11 hours of the reunion taping. I bet it's a hoot and a half. 

I would pay to watch that.

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, nexxie said:

Really? She was planning to stay on the show until she saw the third part of the reunion? What exchange or moment changed her mind? Can’t think of anything new there.

I agree!  I was shocked to hear that.  When I heard Monique wasn't coming back I thought she had made that decision prior to the reunion and that's why she decided to burn every bridge and salt the whole field with that binder.  

I had a begrudging glimmer of respect for her doing that, because its so strategically smart.  Sow chaos, get in the final word, deal your enemy a final humiliating body blow and make sure she cannot get back at you by leaving the show.  Walk away as Rome burns.  It seemed like the best and most strategic option for Monique. 

I was surprised that she  would agree to come back to this show after the binder. Whatever happened with "the plot" and "the rumor" happened before she humiliated Gizelle and Candace said (and they all agreed) that they hear rumors about each other all the time.  Gizelle did whatever she did before Monique came with that binder, can you even imagine how motivated she would be to really fuck Monique's life up if Monique was on another season?  Especially if Monique was a "friend of" and Gizelle was still not only a cast member, but the centerpiece of the show.  

I'm not a Monique fan by any stretch of the imagination, but even I think that her staying on the show after the binder would have been horrible for her.  

 

[Sweet-tea]

Not buying COVID as the main reason why Robyn and Juan aren't married yet. They stopped filming months before COVID. IMO if they really wanted to be married by now, they would be. Also haven't heard them even mention a date or timeframe--six months from now, a year from now, nothing. I still think Juan is dragging his feet. (And I didn't say Robyn's worth was based on whether Juan marries her. I just said he doesn't seem to be in a hurry to do so.) Hopefully they'll get married and I'll be proven wrong. 

I was surprised Gizelle and Ashley got off as easily as they did. Andy gave them both a pass. Also surprised both Jamal and Michael weren't there. I think the husbands' segment would've been more interesting with them. 

If Candiace comes back next season, please give her a different storyline. Do NOT make it about her extended recovery over the trauma of the fight. Just enough of it. The storyline has been beaten to death (pun intended). 

I don't find Wendy that interesting but I don't dislike her, so I'm fine if she comes back or doesn't. 

Ray still doesn't seem into Karen. I hope their marriage lasts. If might be better for them as a couple if she doesn't return to the show, but I expect she will. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Sweet-tea

[lasu]

51 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

Not buying COVID as the main reason why Robyn and Juan aren't married yet. They stopped filming months before COVID. IMO if they really wanted to be married by now, they would be. Also haven't heard them even mention a date or timeframe--six months from now, a year from now, nothing. I still think Juan is dragging his feet. (And I didn't say Robyn's worth was based on whether Juan marries her. I just said he doesn't seem to be in a hurry to do so.) Hopefully they'll get married and I'll be proven wrong. 

I don't think he's dragging his feet; I think they want the Bravo camera's there.  I think they will have a wedding, but I think it's going to be their storyline.  I guess I'm weird though, because I kinda don't see the point in getting married.  They seem fine.  But I'm saying this as someone who, while wanting a life partner, isn't going to ask the government to get involved with my relationships again.

As far as the fight goes, if you believe it was tit for tat in the winery, ok.  I disagree, but for the sake of this point, I'll concede that what happened inside the winery was a mutually agreed upon fight.  So how does one explain Monique's behavior after?  While I don't condone Monique's behavior during the actual fight, if I squint and tilt my head, I can agree it looks like it was a heat of the moment kinda thing.  But her response to possibly getting fired was to want to commit ANOTHER assault.  She didn't feel threatened, it wasn't self defense, no one's hands were in her face.  She wanted REVENGE and she wanted that revenge by causing physical harm to another human being.  I don't hate Monique because of it nor am I going to label her a "hood rat" or anything like that, but I do hope that she works through this and gets the tools in her toolbox to deal with situations without resorting to violence.  Her husband enabling her doesn't make me hopeful though, weirdly enough, especially with her losing the outlet of this show.  She's not someone I would ever want to spend time with in person, but I do wish her well.

[amarante]

1 hour ago, Sweet-tea said:

Not buying COVID as the main reason why Robyn and Juan aren't married yet. They stopped filming months before COVID. IMO if they really wanted to be married by now, they would be. Also haven't heard them even mention a date or timeframe--six months from now, a year from now, nothing. I still think Juan is dragging his feet. (And I didn't say Robyn's worth was based on whether Juan marries her. I just said he doesn't seem to be in a hurry to do so.) Hopefully they'll get married and I'll be proven wrong. 

 

Most housewives marry during production because it is an important storyline for them AND because they can have a lavish wedding which will be comped in whole or part by the vendors in exchange for being shown on television.

There may be others but the only wedding I can think of that was NOT shown on television was when Pandora got married on BH. Originally it was supposed to be completely off camera but because of something else major dropping out, Lisa V allowed them to use some video shot by the family.

Cynthia's Atlanta wedding was supposed to be shot and be a major part of the Atlanta season but because Cynthia chose to defy mask regulations by having 250 people unmasked INDOORS the Bravo crew refused to shoot the wedding and include it as part of the show.

BRAVO - for whatever reason - loves weddings as they seem to feel it attracts ratings. They even have whole spin offs devoted to weddings even for relatively minor characters like the NY real estate agent (Ryan) from Million Dollar Listing.

[Chatty Cake]

I also think Robyn will go for a Bravo wedding storyline. They proposal went so well for them on camera, I can see them doing a wedding. They are quite likable IMO. I wish Juan had been at the reunion but where was it held? I can see missing some work for the reunion but if you have to travel it could be difficult for his job.

I don’t really buy Michael’s  excuse for missing the reunion. I think he didn’t want to face everyone after his behavior at the finale party.