S08.E02: Katarina Rostova: Conclusion

[ottoDbusdriver]

Episode Description:

As Liz pushes a source for answers, Red and the Task Force grapple with the implications of her actions. Tensions boil over and a drastic action is taken, which will change Red and Liz's relationship forever.

 

 

[anthonyd46]

I'm sure this is just fake out x 100000 with the "secrets will be revealed" thing like usual.

Also after this week bit of a break before the next episode 3 weeks according to futon critic.

12/11/20 (Fr.) 8:00 PM NBC TBA

12/18/20 (Fr.) 8:00 PM NBC TBA

1/8/21 (Fr.) 8:00 PM NBC TBA

Edited November 20, 2020 by anthonyd46

[anthonyd46]

Well guess they changed their mind. 2 months before a new episode (Jan 22)

[Neiman]

I can't believe the next episode is January 22. 

Liz's mother is shot in front of her, but M Boone can't muster up one tear.  Bad acting or is Liz truly the ice princess?

[Chaos Theory]

When Elizabeth said the words that if Red killed Katarina that her and Red were done I kinda hoped Red actually did kill her because I wanted to see what that looked like. I wasn’t sure the show would go through with it and I am pretty sure it will eventually back track on it because neither of them can actually kill the other but it will be fun to watch for a couple episodes.  

[anthonyd46]

I'm not 100% sure that was Lizzes real mother anyway. 

[mxc90]

Eduardo should have whacked Red the moment he put his gun away.

Cooper, Ressler and Co. are the worst. They are trying to catch Liz but need to do it in a way for her to NOT get hit with kidnapping charges from the "real" authorities.

Ressler: "Keen knows what she's doing". "Please tell me you won't hurt Keen". "I would do anything for you. If I could". My Goodness! I almost threw up my dinner.

I was hoping Red or Dembe had slapped the taste out of Ressler when he tried to put up that fake tough act to Red. I guess Red hit a nerve with that "second string QB" crack.

I see the FBI gave Ressler another gun. Curious to the explanation he gave for losing it last week. He almost lost the second one but Dembe was nice to give it back.

Liz asked Ressler for more doctors for Dom. Did she expect him to go to a hospital and kidnap a few?

Now we know which age/look of Katarina...... "Dirty" Dom most admired!

Why didn't Red just have his men follow Liz to the warehouse? 

What's with that "How dare you put the zip tie restraints on me?! Don't you know who I am?" look Liz gave Dembe?! 

Dembe-Wan Kenobi! You were our last hope! You held strong for a while and then fell flat! 

Katarina needs to work on her carjacking skills. If you have a gun, there is no need for small talk.

Note to make up department: be consistent with Liz's running mascara in scenes.

Katarina better be dead this time. Please no fake bullets/blood.

Edited November 21, 2020 by mxc90

[Surrealist]

37 minutes ago, anthonyd46 said:

I'm not 100% sure that was Lizzes real mother anyway. 

I'm still of the mind that Red is Katarina.

[Fen Tiger]

Liz, as always makes me sick. Megan Boone is an awful actress. Dembe and James Spader are the only reason I’m still watching this. 

[anthonyd46]

27 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

I'm still of the mind that Red is Katarina.

It wouldn't shock me. Multiple people have said they really don't know who red is, "Katerina" even said to his face tonight something along the lines of she didn't know who he is either. 

[paigow]

Red has been Russian superspy N-13 while maintaining a cover ID as "The Concierge Of Crime". Not a textbook example of blending in...Maybe the #1 Blacklister is Moose & Squirrel

1 hour ago, mxc90 said:

Now we know which age/look of Katarina...... "Dirty" Dom most admired!

Sophomore Jessica Chastain

Edited November 21, 2020 by paigow

[anthonyd46]

Says on fb

Red's explanation will be worth the wait. The Blacklist returns Friday, January 22 on NBC.

[dwmarch]

Another hour of Blacklist shocking revelations that don't amount to anything. Quelle surprise!

A while ago this show tried injecting some humor and I think it worked a lot better than endless angst. They missed a golden opportunity here tonight. When Ressler got into the car with Liz he should have told her he was packing at least six guns so don't try that kissing shit again.

Do Red and Katerina both have the archive by virtue of this story being pulled out of their asses?

At least they showed us a new bad guy, the senior-most Townsend dude who has been right next door to all this action the whole time but staying out of it by screening his calls. Why are we supposed to be afraid of these guys? I know they aren't doing a COVID storyline but that Townsend dude is a hero in today's world! Social distancing and keeping his bubble small! And he'd rather die than go outside. We haven't seen Townsend mooks either, other than the ones guarding the gate. They're not chasing any of these folks around. It has all been Red chasing Katerina and Katerina chasing Red over something that might upset the Townsend folks if they ever went anywhere.

Good showcase of Red being a badass here though. End of last season, Liz decides to betray him... again. Red doesn't play that shit and if she was anybody else he'd have killed her on the spot way back when she did it the first time. But he decides to give her another chance. So this season she betrays him about halfway through the first episode. By the end of the second episode he executes her mother right in front of her, looking at her as he does it. Do not fuck with Red!

Edited November 21, 2020 by dwmarch

[paigow]

10 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

But he decides to give her another chance. So this season she betrays him about halfway through the first episode. By the end of the second episode he executes her mother right in front of her, looking at her as he does it. Do not fuck with Red!

If COVID had not arrived, would this execution have been the S7 finale???

[saber5055]

1 hour ago, anthonyd46 said:

Says on fb

Red's explanation will be worth the wait.

Yeah, right, okay then. I'm sure. And other phrases that translate to "We're suppose to believe everything you tell us? You're not Lizzie's mom."

[torqy]

Are we actually, finally, done with that awful woman? I think she will come back from the dead just to annoy viewers.

[Dowel Jones]

"Are you under the overpass or in the underpass?  How does that work?"  Completely irrelevant, but the best line of the night for me.  Channeling Airplane, I see.

Dembe must have gotten soft during the Covid layoff, as he never would have let Liz out hit him and outsmart him like that.  It would be interesting to see the exchange between Reddington and Dembe when Reddingtion drives his own car back and meets him on the road.

So what is it with this Sikorsky Archive?  Secret heavy lift helicopters?

I feel sorry for Heidelberg's secretary - "Shit, it's 4:00.  I need to pick up my kid from school.  When is that old fart getting back here?"

[Brian Cronin]

The only way this vaguely makes sense is if the longstanding theory is true and Red is Katarina and this Katarina is an impostor (perhaps even believes that she IS the real Katarina). And that's so hacky that I have always hoped it wasn't the truth (as it really sort of trivializes transitioning). But it's the only thing that makes any sense at this point.

Dom's "You both have it" line almost certainly is a reference to the fact that Katarina IS Reddington. 

And the whole "She loves you. She's always loved you" and kissing him stuff. 😉

And, of course, "Katarina" noting how much it must kill Red to not be able to kill her because "Liz loves her mother" (while Red, of course, is Liz's bio mom). 

We've already established the idea of someone (initially, we thought Ilya) would go under extensive reconstruction to "become" Reddington to access his accounts, so it is fairly simple to just say that that story happened, simply with it being Katarina who got the surgery and not Ilya. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Brian Cronin

[Neiman]

Well, I was sitting here thinking that Liz must be N13 (or whatever the name of that agent is).  I imagined she had some sort of microchip (the archive files) implanted under her skin when she was a baby.  That's why Red always wants to keep tabs on her.  I know that's out there, but for this show, I figured it's plausible. 

[edhopper]

Just wondering when this show started if they had any idea who Red really was, or did they just keep changing their minds as they threw more s&*t at the fan?

[preeya]

9 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Dembe must have gotten soft during the Covid layoff, as he never would have let Liz out hit him and outsmart him like that.  It would be interesting to see the exchange between Reddington and Dembe when Reddingtion drives his own car back and meets him on the road.

He could have easily shot out a tire and prevented Liz from escaping. A real "rookie mistake."

[Neiman]

7 minutes ago, preeya said:

He could have easily shot out a tire and prevented Liz from escaping. A real "rookie mistake."

Agree.  I was waiting for him to throw himself in front of the car to keep her from escaping.  

[saber5055]

I swear, the only reason I watch this show is for the posts here. You guys are hilarious. I'm especially down with @Brian Cronin, that theory is so whack, it really could be "the" one. I'd totally support it.

I have to say, Spader rocked this episode. I am without a doubt on The Red Team after watching this one.

First laugh was there being a "roadside camera" on that remote two lane in the middle of the woods somewhere. A roadside camera that focused directly on that truck on the side of the road. Because every country road that gets zero traffic has a cam.

Next laugh was the squabble between Red and Ressler, with Red pulling out the stops to call Ressler all the mean high-school names to hurt his feelings. That was maybe my favorite scene. So far, anyway, because my REAL favorite came later.

Third laugh was Lizzie saying to Ressler, "Can't you just ignore the rules just this one time?" Like he wasn't ignoring rules when he killed a few people and had Red's cleaners take care of that for him. Or ignoring the FBI HR policy of "don't kiss your co-workers."

Another good line was Lizzie to Dembe: "I have a right to know." That was answered by me saying, "No you don't."

Now all of a sudden Red is the killer of Tom, Dom and Lizzie's dad? Talk about easy scapegoat. I put the blame of Dom's death entirely and 100 percent on Lizzie. Tom's murder was too long ago, but I don't remember Red being there. That, plus we all know Red is the one who faked Tom's death so he could escape to New York. So there's that.

Lizzie insults Dembe! WTH girl! You don't do that. Not after he put those extremely loose zip ties on your wrists so you could easily escape. Points off for Dembe not hearing me yell SHOOT HER! as he stood pointing the gun at her. He could have fired into the passenger seat, maybe that would have gotten her attention. Dembe, don't go soft on us. Red already cut you slack a season or two ago for "betraying" him. It might not go so well this time.

And now for the Best Scene EVER on this show: Red shoots and kills Katarina! Thank the gods, we are rid of that horrible character and even worse actress who ruined every scene she was in, and this entire show along with it. She better really be dead this time. I cheered out loud when that happened.

Loved how Red's "guys" were right there to clean up the scene and skee-daddle everyone before the feds got there. Who Red needs to kill now is Lizzie, who, of course, will be back wearing her FBI badge once again because murder and kidnapping and every other crime she's committed will be covered up by her sugar daddy boss Cooper.

Meanwhile, Lizzie stumbling around in the park like some dork was another good scene.

So, looking back, this was a pretty good episode after all. Just for all the wrong reasons.

ETA: Since Dom clearly saw his young daughter while Katarina was talking to him, I wonder who he saw while Red was talking to him. Inquiring minds want to know. (Maybe so do the writers.)

Edited November 21, 2020 by saber5055

[paigow]

10 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

And now for the Best Scene EVER on this show: Red shoots and kills Katarina!

Was Red stalling, waiting for Liz??? Dembe phone jacked the next passerby and told Red? 

[mxc90]

40 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Loved how Red's "guys" were right there to clean up the scene and skee-daddle everyone before the feds got there.

My favorite of that group was the guy with the spray. He was done in 3 seconds and never checked his work.

I think he was cleaning up her bad acting.

40 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Meanwhile, Lizzie stumbling around in the park like some dork was another good scene.

I consulted a professional lip reader after the show. This person told me Liz was saying "NBC! Are you really considering to renew this show for another season?"

It 's nice that super secretive Liz and Katarina don't have code names on their phones. It's just "Liz" and "Katarina". 

Edited November 21, 2020 by mxc90

[CaptainE]

Townsend, Sikorsky, N13?   Oooh so cool names.  Thinks nobody who’s ever seen a good story told.

And dragging this dreck on with a huge break?  Please end it already.

”buh, buh, but it’s not my secret to tell”

Pure network garbage.  

[saber5055]

16 minutes ago, paigow said:

Was Red stalling, waiting for Liz???

This has occurred to me. That Dembe letting Lizzie escape and head to the park was all planned so she could see Red murder Katarina. Because I couldn't figure any reason for Dembe and Liz to be going for a car ride when they could have/should have stayed where they were, wherever that was.

This also has occurred to me that Katarina's murder was all faked. AGAIN. If that's the case, I might be shopping for a new TV after January 22.

I also want to know where all that high-tech hospital stuff came from. Did Katarina have some special Amazon or Etsy account where she bought all that stuff to prep for Dom arriving?

Oh ... never mind. *hand wave*

[Brian Cronin]

6 hours ago, edhopper said:

Just wondering when this show started if they had any idea who Red really was, or did they just keep changing their minds as they threw more s&*t at the fan?

The dreaded "Red is secretly Katarina" theory has been around since early in the show's run, so if that's where they're heading (and it really does look like that's where they're going), then I think the odds are good that the basic connection between Red and Liz HAS been planned since the beginning, and just the extra stuff like the Sikorsky stuff has been made up as they went along and kept getting renewed.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Brian Cronin

[Loandbehold]

2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

This has occurred to me. That Dembe letting Lizzie escape and head to the park was all planned so she could see Red murder Katarina. Because I couldn't figure any reason for Dembe and Liz to be going for a car ride when they could have/should have stayed where they were, wherever that was.

The entire time Liz was with Dembe, I expected him to let her go, as he has done before. He didn't because he didn't want Liz to get suspicious that he would in the end choose her over Red, but that can't happen until the finale (which may be seven years from now b/c NBC doesn't have any other shows). Your explanation works better.

saber5055, your entire post was like a great opera, building, building, building to that crescendo - 

3 hours ago, saber5055 said:

And now for the Best Scene EVER on this show: Red shoots and kills Katarina! Thank the gods, we are rid of that horrible character and even worse actress who ruined every scene she was in, and this entire show along with it. She better really be dead this time. I cheered out loud when that happened.

before the denoument.,  Bravo! Bravisimo! 

[paigow]

16 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

Dom's "You both have it" line almost certainly is a reference to the fact that Katarina IS Reddington. 

I see your Transgender and raise a Skywalker Twin.

Red and Katarina were separated at birth. She was never told the truth about Red. Dom split the archive [or the decryption key] between them. This does not exclude the possibility that "Red" was born a female.

Edited November 22, 2020 by paigow

[ottoDbusdriver]

I guess the writers are big fans of Meatloaf, they were paraphrasing him here.

Ressler: "I would do anything for you if I could."
Lizzie: "But you can't do this."

Lizzie's disappearing running mascara bugged me.  Even more, how the running mascara just up and disappeared later in the scene to be replaced by just plain old tears.

I can't believe that Dembe fell for Lizzie's sob story -- he's better than that.  Lizzie is a known liar, just like Reddington (who may be her father or her mother or both ?).  And then Dembe fell for the old "hide low behind the car and then sneak back in and lock the door" stunt.  That is just sad. And Dembe is better than that.

Lizzie is all upset that Reddington is going to kill her mother, but remember this isn't the first Lizzie was convinced that someone was her long lost parent.  What's his name -- Alexander Kirk -- Lizzie was convinced by a DNA test that he was her father, only not so much.

Lizzie (to Dembe): "He's killed everyone I've ever cared about -- my father, my husband, my grandfather"

I guess that means Lizzie doesn't care about Agnes.

Speaking of Agnes, no sign or mention of Agnes or the dogs or Robert Vesco's cat.

ETA: just re-watched the final scene, and you guys are right -- Lizzie's eyes are bone dry. Not a single tear for her "mother".

Edited November 22, 2020 by ottoDbusdriver

[paigow]

7 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I guess the writers are big fans of Meatloaf, they were paraphrasing him here.

His songs can tell a concise story in less than 7 minutes...these clowns needed 7 years to write one verse

So I can end my time with you 🎶 🎤

Edited November 22, 2020 by paigow

[Dowel Jones]

I know how Liz can find the answer she needs.  Head to the senior center, buy a card, and just wait it out:

B5, I9, N13, G4, O6.  "I got it, I got it!"

 

[ottoDbusdriver]

22 hours ago, anthonyd46 said:

Says on fb

Red's explanation will be worth the wait. The Blacklist returns Friday, January 22 on NBC.

Yeah, we're never getting an explanation.  Ever.

This series will end and we still won't know what Red's true relationship to Lizzie is.

8 hours ago, saber5055 said:

So, looking back, this was a pretty good episode after all. Just for all the wrong reasons.

Agreed.   It's not supposed to be the Lizzie Keen comedy hour.

[tljgator]

9 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Next laugh was the squabble between Red and Ressler, with Red pulling out the stops to call Ressler all the mean high-school names to hurt his feelings.

Anybody else get a subtle "Pretty in Pink" in-joke vibe from that whole thing?

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Lizzie's disappearing running mascara bugged me.  Even more, how the running mascara just up and disappeared later in the scene to be replaced by just plain old tears*.

*saline or some other movie-magic-shiny-fakeness (the mascara really bugged me, too)

I thought all the dialogue pointed to Katerina NOT being Liz's mother, especially her vaguely snide "she LOVES me because I'm HER MOTHER" and the *snerk* face she gave Red while saying it. Who knows with these writers, though.

[paigow]

11 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I know how Liz can find the answer she needs.  Head to the senior center, buy a card, and just wait it out:

B5, I9, N13, G4, O6.  "I got it, I got it!"

It has to be in Albuquerque, NM

Edited November 22, 2020 by paigow

[saber5055]

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I guess the writers are big fans of Meatloaf, they were paraphrasing him here.

Ressler: "I would do anything for you if I could."
Lizzie: "But you can't do this."

I totally caught that and it cracked me up. Mainly because of this joke I heard a couple weeks ago:

A couple experimenting in the bedroom needed a safe word. So they picked ‘meatloaf.’ Because they’ll do anything for love, but they won’t do that.

The mascara thing was a hilarious fake out. I guess Hollywood types don't know about the waterproof kind. Or what regular mascara does (or doesn't do) when someone cries.

[saber5055]

2 hours ago, lora said:

Man, Red's eyes before he killed Dom. Great acting by Spader,

What? I thought Dom died on his own. I didn't see Red do anything. Although I agree about Spader's acting. Spot on.

[milkyaqua]

Well, okay.

I hope Laila Robbins goes to a show where she can show her Katerina performance was a one-off bad job...

Still going with Bokenkamp not having a clue about what any of this is about.

I've never cared if Red was Liz's dad (I hoped he wasn't) and I didn't care about who her mother may or may not have been or is or...whatever.

Ressler and Cooper are beyond needing their heads examined.

Don't know what was up with Dembe.  That had better been deliberate on his part.

Liz is once again done with Red.  I'd like to believe that but alas because she needs answers damn it!

Hmm, will Liz retrieve her phone and if so, will she hear what Red and Katerina were talking about?  That might be too simple.

 

 

 

 

 

[saber5055]

On 11/22/2020 at 2:18 PM, milkyaqua said:

I hope Laila Robbins goes to a show where she can show her Katerina performance was a one-off bad job...

Personally, I hope to never see her again.

[tvfanatic13]

You know what I miss? When this show was about blacklisters. All this other stuff sucks. 

[paigow]

On 11/22/2020 at 3:18 PM, milkyaqua said:

Liz is once again done with Red.  I'd like to believe that but alas because she needs answers damn it!

Getting the answers is:

• Guaranteed by the Constitution
• More important than Agnes receiving proper child care
• Her justification for any felonies committed

[Loandbehold]

8 hours ago, paigow said:

Getting the answers is:

• Guaranteed by the Constitution
• More important than Agnes receiving proper child care
• Her justification for any felonies committed

Don't forget more important than the location of the dogs or is caring for Vesco's cat.

I love reading the snark, but when this show started it was a lot of fun. Spader still chews as much scenery as he can gobble up*, but aside from Dembe the other characters have lost what made them fun. It's very sad. I'm sticking with the show until the end, but the expiration date on this show was about five years ago.

*T-Day reference.

[CaptainE]

9 hours ago, paigow said:

Getting the answers is:

• Guaranteed by the Constitution
• More important than Agnes receiving proper child care
• Her justification for any felonies committed

Justification for any murders (attorney general) committed to be more specific.

 

So I assume the keystone cops will just keep working with Reddington even though he just murdered a civilian in front of the FBI?
Ridiculous.

[Surrealist]

On 11/21/2020 at 12:08 PM, saber5055 said:

I swear, the only reason I watch this show is for the posts here. You guys are hilarious. I'm especially down with @Brian Cronin, that theory is so whack, it really could be "the" one. I'd totally support it.

Same. 

I'm stuck on Red being Katarina because my intuition tells me this is it. It's really wacky, but it also works. I have yet to see another character come up where I'm like "Nope. That's actually Katarina." Red has been saying things for the past few seasons or so that seem like things only a mother would say, especially when he's talked about his childhood. I can't remember those scenes word-for-word, but that's how I got stuck on the "Red is Katarina" theory. I haven't budged since.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Surrealist

[saber5055]

11 hours ago, paigow said:

More important than Agnes receiving proper child care

Who?

[anthonyd46]

15 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

Same. 

I'm stuck on Red being Katarina because my intuition tells me this is it. It's really wacky, but it also works. I have yet to see another character come up where I'm like "Nope. That's actually Katarina." Red has been saying things for the past few seasons or so that seem like things only a mother would say, especially when he's talked about his childhood. I can't remember those scenes word-for-word, but that's how I got stuck on the "Red is Katarina" theory. I haven't budged since.

If that is the case I think the key line will definitely be "Katerina" saying to Red.

"She doesn't know who you are, but I'm her mother"

[saber5055]

38 minutes ago, anthonyd46 said:

If that is the case I think the key line will definitely be "Katerina" saying to Red.

"She doesn't know who you are, but I'm her mother"

In the mirror!

Edited November 25, 2020 by saber5055

[rur]

On 11/21/2020 at 10:15 AM, edhopper said:

Just wondering when this show started if they had any idea who Red really was, or did they just keep changing their minds as they threw more s&*t at the fan?

This episode convinced me that they never thought the show would last this long, so they've been pulling ideas out of their nether regions for the last several years, convinced that each season will be the last . . . and then they have to create an even more bizarre rationale to keep going another year. 

 

On 11/21/2020 at 1:08 PM, saber5055 said:

Meanwhile, Lizzie stumbling around in the park like some dork was another good scene.

I kept wondering why she was wearing that stupid watch cap. It clearly wasn't that cold.

[Writing Wrongs]

On 11/22/2020 at 2:18 PM, milkyaqua said:

I hope Laila Robbins goes to a show where she can show her Katerina performance was a one-off bad job...

I watched her on the short-lived Deception and she sucked on there too.

On 11/21/2020 at 9:15 AM, edhopper said:

Just wondering when this show started if they had any idea who Red really was, or did they just keep changing their minds as they threw more s&*t at the fan?

It reminds me of the character, John Black on Days of Our Lives. He had so many origin stories, it was ridiculous.

Did anyone else notice the "Tom ❤️ Liz" carved on the bench?

Edited January 29, 2021 by Writing Wrongs