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S01.E05: Trial By Fire


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19 hours ago, Maysie said:

 

I don't like Jonathan, but I don't consider him a sociopath simply because his mother called him such. Again, more bad parenting (at least we know where Jonathan gets his from). I don't know, but if my kid was in any way involved with the death of a sibling, whether by accident or neglect, he'd be in therapy - especially if he's showing no signs of emotion or acknowledgment afterwards.

The “accident” would have happened in the ‘70s or ‘80s so therapy might have still been considered taboo in Jonathan’s family.

5 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

 

Stuff I hope doesn't just get dropped:

  • Seriously, what the HELL happened to the 500,000 that was loaned to Jonathan? And then he needs another 2mil from Franklin for bail, and no one asks about this?
  • What was Jonathan's ruse about the faux conference about? Why was he setting that up well before the murder took place? I like the theory that Jonathan was actually planning to run away with Elena and the baby, and wanted the money for a new start elsewhere.

I thought that the 500k was to support his lifestyle after he was fired so that he could hide that fact from Grace. He probably also used it to pay medical bills for the baby’s birth and set Elena up in the fancy studio. 

Also, the Cleveland conference was an annual conference that he had to pretend to attend to keep up the ruse of still being employed.

I don’t think either of these are directly related to the murder so they probably don’t require further explanation 

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15 hours ago, carrps said:

Oh, and one thing I forgot. I hate that everybody pronounces Elena's name wrong. It's Eh-LAY-na, not E-luh-nuh. 

But the character herself pronounces Elena the second way, so even if it is not the traditional pronunciation, why shouldn’t she say her own name the way she wants to? 
 

Also, rewatching episode 1 and Nicole is showing more expressions on her face. I think the stiff expression is an acting choice.

Edited by nara
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I also still don't know why he his his phone.  No matter where he went or why, why not keep his phone with him?  It would have taken Grace longer to figure out that he wasn't where he said he was.

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10 minutes ago, Roxie said:

I also still don't know why he his his phone.  No matter where he went or why, why not keep his phone with him?  It would have taken Grace longer to figure out that he wasn't where he said he was.

Although the conference was preplanned, he left the phone behind after the murder so he could run and not be tracked.

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16 minutes ago, nara said:

Although the conference was preplanned, he left the phone behind after the murder so he could run and not be tracked.

I was just thinking that it would make more sense to take it with him so Grace could contact him, at least for a few days, to give him a chance to get away - she wouldn't have know he wasn't there, so she wouldn't have had to try and trace him.  He could have ditched it later.  Or just thrown it away to begin with so no one could get info off of it.

Edited by Roxie
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22 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

That totally bugged me about Big Little Lies as well. If the actresses were playing their true ages, their kids would all be college-aged or even grad students, not in elementary school. Even if fudged a bit (they were playing younger women, or they had their kids later in life) the math STILL didn't really work for KIdman & Dern - at minimum, their kids would be tweens or high-schoolers. I looked past it because the show was fun.

I suppose we should be glad the reverse is not true. I would be more annoyed if Hollywood ageism resulted in thirty-somethings always playing the mothers of college-age people.

21 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When was this mentioned on the show? I don’t remember this at all!

It wasn't mentioned specifically that the garage is $500 a month. Grace says to Elena at the fundraiser, "I have a car" or something to that effect, implying it wasn't one they just called for that event, but had access to at any time. And I know from living in the city that it costs $500 or more to keep a car in a garage. Street parking isn't really feasible especially in their neighborhood.

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3 hours ago, nara said:

But the character herself pronounces Elena the second way, so even if it is not the traditional pronunciation, why shouldn’t she say her own name the way she wants to? 

I know people named Alves who pronounce it as one syllable, as in Alvs.   Geography or personal preference can determine, not me.  Tomayto Tomahto Tamayda, it's all the same thing.

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4 hours ago, nara said:

But the character herself pronounces Elena the second way, so even if it is not the traditional pronunciation, why shouldn’t she say her own name the way she wants to? 

I never heard her pronounce it the second way herself. She usually said her name with a strong accent...but of course that's an Italian accent. Ha. But no biggie. Maybe it's like Star Wars where Billy Dee Williams kept saying Han Solo's name like Han was pronounced like pan. Then, a few others said it that way.

 

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

I know people named Alves who pronounce it as one syllable, as in Alvs.   Geography or personal preference can determine, not me.  Tomayto Tomahto Tamayda, it's all the same thing.

That's usually Portuguese. Gomes is a Portuguese name pronounced like homes. People who are used to Spanish want to say Go-MES. 

One more thing I remembered this morning -- why did the prosecutor let the defense attorney spring the news about the baby's paternity??? Seems like something she would want to get out ahead of. Say it in a sneering way. Get the jury against Jonathan. But this way the defense could put as sympathetic a spin on it as possible.

Edited by carrps
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8 hours ago, nara said:

Also, the Cleveland conference was an annual conference that he had to pretend to attend to keep up the ruse of still being employed.

The doctor that Grace intercepted at the hospital after learning that  J no longer worked there said he knew nothing about a conference in Cleveland. Maybe J told Grace it was an annual thing, but he was lying.

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8 hours ago, carrps said:

One more thing I remembered this morning -- why did the prosecutor let the defense attorney spring the news about the baby's paternity??? Seems like something she would want to get out ahead of. Say it in a sneering way. Get the jury against Jonathan. But this way the defense could put as sympathetic a spin on it as possible.

No matter which side you represent, you never want the jury to think you are hiding something from them. They already don't trust lawyers. So that was a tactical error, imo.

However, as the prosecutor you want your victim to be sympathetic, so no sneering about her baby's paternity, i.e. what a slut she was, or anything that could be construed as beating up on a baby.

4 hours ago, MBayGal said:

The doctor that Grace intercepted at the hospital after learning that  J no longer worked there said he knew nothing about a conference in Cleveland. Maybe J told Grace it was an annual thing, but he was lying.

I went back and watched the later scene where the doc met with Grace and I was wrong, he did not tell her that "the husband" had filed a complaint with the hospital. Was it Sylvia who said that when she told Grace that Jonathan had hired her? Did anyone ever say it or did I imagine it?

I'd love to talk more, but it's time for me to don a fabulous coat, toss my lustrous mane, and walk all over the city.

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So we never got any flashbacks of Jonathan at a bar after he left the studio or him seeing murdered body.  Just him saying he left after having sex, went to bar and fled after finding her dead. Conference in Cleveland was just a decoy to cover him ducking out after murder to get rid of his evidence and not be around for police raiding house.  Phone is left so after he flees crime scene to dispose of bloody clothing he can’t be tracked anywhere.  Not sure what story is with hatchet in violin case.  

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I'll have to rewatch the first episode, but when did Jonathon first mention to Grace he was leaving for the conference?  I thought he said something about it at the fundraiser when Elena was still very much alive, so was he planning on leaving for a long weekend with Elena?  In which case, it was part of the affair/loss of job deception Jonathon was running on Grace.  Or was he planning on killing Elena all along, and the conference was going to give him a way to get a head start on hiding? Which, he decided not to run, but to take his chances and come back and fight for reasonable doubt. 

In either case, why leave your phone behind? Yes, you can be tracked by your phone, if you leave it on. But if you leave it behind, that raises suspicion so much sooner. 

Bloody clothing from the murder scene has not been found or even looked for, as far as I can remember. 

Jonathon, at the end of episode 4 said he knew who did murder Elena.  But then we never went back to that.  Did he mean himself or her husband???

The reason a murderer would hang on to the murder weapon is to create reasonable doubt by planting it on someone else.

At this point, I rewatched episodes 4 and 5 and enjoyed them a bit more than the first time through, but I still can't forgive the wave that Sylvia gave the prosecutor in the middle of court proceedings, and I am willing to bet that the story she told of representing Jonathon in his case with the hospital is a fabrication, but how she knew that Grace wouldn't outright ask him about it, I have no idea. 

So, in spite of myself, I guess I am vested in the outcome of the story. Ha!  Rewatching the last two episodes piqued my interest.  C'mon Sunday!

 

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Franklin is an admitted “ c*********”, - the vindictive kind. Maybe he killed her, planted the hammer on Jonathan, and Henry found and hid the weapon thinking he was protecting his Dad. Sylvia slept with Jonathon, and may share secrets with the defense attorney. 

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So this morning when I was walking my dog — wearing not one of my many expensive coats nor my fabulous red wig, but a ratty sweatshirt and a knitted cap, to throw off the paparazzi, you know — I noticed what appeared to be a small guitar case poking out of a neighbor’s trashcan!!  I really had to restrain myself from opening it to see if there was a murder weapon inside it!!!

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1 hour ago, MBayGal said:

So this morning when I was walking my dog — wearing not one of my many expensive coats nor my fabulous red wig, but a ratty sweatshirt and a knitted cap, to throw off the paparazzi, you know — I noticed what appeared to be a small guitar case poking out of a neighbor’s trashcan!!  I really had to restrain myself from opening it to see if there was a murder weapon inside it!!!

How are you ever going to solve mysteries if you restrain your curiosity? 😉

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18 hours ago, athousandclowns said:

This little old lady watched Notting Hill  last night followed by Hugh on Graham Norton ( great that they are in the studio) and am fully  in love with Hugh. 
The son is just so odd it better not be either one of the boys. 
I am sticking with Sylvia. 

Athousandclowns:

I contend it was Noah all along.  He just had to clean up that affair.
Oh...no...Got my shows mixed up.  Oops.

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15 hours ago, ReviewX said:

Is tomorrow night an extended-length episode? Because I don't see how they're going to wrap this all up in an hour.

My DVR shows it as being 70 minutes long. I'm a little disappointed as I just binged the whole series and the fact that the episodes were only about 45-50 minutes (without previouslies, credits and coming up) of content made the mess of a show it is a very easy binge. 

I don't necessarily think we need 70 minutes.  The show is a mess and I don't expect the finale to be any different.  Let's just hope it's an entertaining mess of a finale.

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It'll depend on how they use the 70 minutes. I'm glad to read that it's 70 minutes because I do think it has to be that long if they're to address all the questions and weird moments. But if instead of doing that, it's lots of time spent on Grace walking around, well...

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On 11/25/2020 at 6:56 PM, carrps said:

This bugged me, too. Kidman's Australian; the kid, the attorney, and Grant are Brits; the dead women is Italian; Donald Sutherland is a Canuck!🤪

 

...and Douglas Hodge, who played the schlubby public defender, is also British! It’s water under the bridge now, but it was hard for me not to notice Nicole Kidman’s accent slipping on many occasions (and she had a dialect coach). I found myself creating a backstory that Grace’s dead mother was an aristocratic Australian who fell in love with Franklin when he was traveling there and they raised Grace in Oz until she was in her late teens, when they moved to NYC and lived in the palatial apartment/penthouse/entire building that’s been in Franklin’s family since the Gilded Age and that’s why Grace sounds Australian at least a third of the time. It’s weird, because I’m sure I’ve seen Kidman in other projects where her American accent was better.

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I'm behind, but will probably finish tonight.

  • Lily Rabe's "'sup, grrl" in the coutroom should have been admonished by the judge immediately. 
  • Methinks Jonathan made his sandwich after his sister was dead.
  • With all the possibilities already discussed in this thread as plausible, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the final shot was Grace drooling into her applesauce whilst the other characters are either fellow patients or staff.
  • Does the book suck this bad?
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11 minutes ago, LeGrandElephant said:

So is the little girl in the credits supposed to be his sister, rather than Grace? 

It is? I didn't hear that. I thought it was Grace, symbolizing that her innocent beliefs are an illusion.

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