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Does anyone even like rory?????

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Just now, peacheslatour said:

Not a very apt comparison considering Peggy had a successful career and Rory didn't.

Very true. I hope the writer does a follow up about Rory's later years and how they dropped the ball on the character.

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On 1/26/2021 at 4:55 PM, qtpye said:

I am not surprised that Rory did not join a sorority but I am surprised the show runners did not have several sororities begging for her to become a sister.

I am happy we never got a storyline where Paris wants to pledge a sorority but will only do it with Rory and Paris gets rejected and Rory gets in with ease. Then Rory will reject the membership to be in unity with Paris.

This is usually the way Rory's college years story lines went.

That's also almost a trope with college shows.

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Ok...I'll ask a different question.
How can Rory do so well in college when she returns home almost every weekend (Friday dinner, Saturday wandering around Stars Hollow, etc).
When does she actually study?  How many hours per class does she actually study?

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3 hours ago, grommit2 said:

Ok...I'll ask a different question.
How can Rory do so well in college when she returns home almost every weekend (Friday dinner, Saturday wandering around Stars Hollow, etc).
When does she actually study?  How many hours per class does she actually study?

I knew lots of people who went home every weekend.  We didn't sit there and watch Rory study and doing homework, because that would have been boring.  But she was probably only actually in class about 3 hours a day, 4 tops.  So, she had at least another 10 for studying and doing paper stuff.  I'm not saying she did, that seems like an absurd amount of time, just saying that it existed.  If she had stuff due from Friday to Monday, I'm sure she had time on Saturday and Sunday mornings before she started wandering around.

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Yeah. I envied the non-science majors in college. I usually spent 3-4 afternoons a week doing lab work. So students like Rory would have plenty of time during the day to study. 

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18 hours ago, chessiegal said:

Yeah. I envied the non-science majors in college. I usually spent 3-4 afternoons a week doing lab work. So students like Rory would have plenty of time during the day to study. 

The thing that blew my mind was all of those full time students had time to crank out a daily newspaper. I was on every paper in school from jr. high to college but I never worked on a daily.

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18 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

The thing that blew my mind was all of those full time students had time to crank out a daily newspaper. I was on every paper in school from jr. high to college but I never worked on a daily.

I don't know if that's uncommon; my university had a daily paper (you can see it behind Paris in the bunker at one point!). It was only a few pages, though, so it probably wasn't a huge lift.

I did always call foul on Rory's sudden ability to be editor of the newspaper and ace all her coursework, which included extra classes to make up for her semester off, given her meltdown in season four. Of course she might have figured out how to handle college better by her junior year, but still. Bugged me. (Also bugged me that she managed to achieve Phi Beta Kappa when she deliberately threw multiple finals. Again, I'm sure it was possible and I'm honestly not super familiar with the criteria--they inducted me as a junior when I was studying abroad, so I didn't go to the ceremony--but Rory's habit in college of not doing work whenever she was upset irked me. That's life! Sometimes you have to do things even when you don't want to and they seem pointless. See: most jobs at some point or another.)

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I worked occasionally on the Michigan Daily at the University of Michigan. In the 70s, at least, it was a real newspaper if you didn’t count all of the unpaid labor. All of the senior editors were behind on graduating or just barely passing their classes because they were at the paper most days until after midnight. It was a daily paper and everything had to be typeset in metal type before being printed on letterpress printers.

I am very, very old.

So I call bullshit on the Palladinos, yet again. No way Rory has time to ace her classes, run the paper, play house with Logan, and run home to Stars Hollow every weekend. Not even three out of four of those.

Edited by Oldernowiser
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14 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

I worked occasionally on the Michigan Daily at the University of Michigan. In the 70s, at least, it was a real newspaper if you didn’t count all of the unpaid labor. All of the senior editors were behind on graduating or just barely passing their classes because they were at the paper most days until after midnight. It was a daily paper and everything had to be typeset in metal type before being printed on letterpress printers.

I am very, very old.

So I call bullshit on the Palladinos, yet again. No way Rory has time to ace her classes, run the paper, play house with Logan, and run home to Stars Hollow every weekend. Not even three out of four of those.

That's what I figured.

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I liked season 1 Rory...season 2 to 3 Rory sometimes...but by season 4..that changed 

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I like Rory. 

I liked her the most probably during season 2 when I started watching, but I still liked her in later seasons and in the revival. I don't think that there is a character on TV that I related to more than her. I never had her romantic problems, but I had similar close relationship with my mother, cared a lot about education, liked books and later on I had a lot of doubts during college and was close to dropping out a few times (though thankfully I didn't).

I also liked her storyline in the revival about having troubles with work due to the changes in journalism in past years. I think it is understandable that Rory would have problems adapting to the new era after we have seen how much she appreciated the more classic model of the previous era. I also liked the idea that she ended up writing a book about her and her mother's lives, I think it might suit her more now then being a journalist. Also, she is writing about her real life experiences, which is still a bit closer to that than writing a fictional story.

The only thing I didn't like about her journey is how she ended up pregnant. I understand that is was meant to mirror her mother but the thing is, she is not Lorelai. With Lorelai you can totally see how she ended up being pregnant by mistake, but Rory was always much more careful and I found that to be something that didn't quite work for me. I read that the original series was meant to end this way and I don't know if it would be better or worse if Rory ended up unexpectedly pregnant at the end of college as opposed to now. Neither one really works for me. If they wanted her pregnant at the end, it would IMO be much better if it was by her choice, as it would still contrast her and her mother with showing them in a similar situation, but the way they got there would be more in line with her character. It just doesn't strike me that Rory who always liked having everything planned and organized would end up being pregnant by mistake.

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1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

It just doesn't strike me that Rory who always liked having everything planned and organized would end up being pregnant by mistake.

She may have liked everything planned and organized, but she was also very impulsive.  She didn't plan to steal a yacht.  She didn't plan to have sex with a married man.  She planned to break it off with him the next day and had sex again instead.  She didn't plan (I'm assuming) to have a temper tantrum in Mr. Medina's class because she didn't plan to be late.  She didn't plan to have an overweight ballerina plotting her murder.

Anyway, my point is it only takes a few minutes to get pregnant. Plus, we don't know that a condom didn't break or something, we know Rory wasn't a virgin even before the conception.

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1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

I like Rory. 

I liked her the most probably during season 2 when I started watching, but I still liked her in later seasons and in the revival. I don't think that there is a character on TV that I related to more than her. I never had her romantic problems, but I had similar close relationship with my mother, cared a lot about education, liked books and later on I had a lot of doubts during college and was close to dropping out a few times (though thankfully I didn't).

I also liked her storyline in the revival about having troubles with work due to the changes in journalism in past years. I think it is understandable that Rory would have problems adapting to the new era after we have seen how much she appreciated the more classic model of the previous era. I also liked the idea that she ended up writing a book about her and her mother's lives, I think it might suit her more now then being a journalist. Also, she is writing about her real life experiences, which is still a bit closer to that than writing a fictional story.

The only thing I didn't like about her journey is how she ended up pregnant. I understand that is was meant to mirror her mother but the thing is, she is not Lorelai. With Lorelai you can totally see how she ended up being pregnant by mistake, but Rory was always much more careful and I found that to be something that didn't quite work for me. I read that the original series was meant to end this way and I don't know if it would be better or worse if Rory ended up unexpectedly pregnant at the end of college as opposed to now. Neither one really works for me. If they wanted her pregnant at the end, it would IMO be much better if it was by her choice, as it would still contrast her and her mother with showing them in a similar situation, but the way they got there would be more in line with her character. It just doesn't strike me that Rory who always liked having everything planned and organized would end up being pregnant by mistake.

I used to like Rory as well...I was a bookish nerd that was pretty close to my mother.

However, I sometimes think we consider Rory so calm is because she is always playing against hurricane Lorelai (a true force of nature). When Rory is not around her mother, she tends to fall apart and become much more impulsive. 

This might be due to  her needing the constant stimulation in her life that Lorelai provides.

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28 minutes ago, Katy M said:

She may have liked everything planned and organized, but she was also very impulsive.  She didn't plan to steal a yacht.  She didn't plan to have sex with a married man.  She planned to break it off with him the next day and had sex again instead.  She didn't plan (I'm assuming) to have a temper tantrum in Mr. Medina's class because she didn't plan to be late.  She didn't plan to have an overweight ballerina plotting her murder.

Anyway, my point is it only takes a few minutes to get pregnant. Plus, we don't know that a condom didn't break or something, we know Rory wasn't a virgin even before the conception.

You definitely have a point about her being impulsive. I just think that with something serious like birth control, she would be much more careful. I remember that when Paris told her about her first time, one of the first things Rory asked was if it was safe. I also think that when she was dating Logan she had a conversation with Lorelai about taking birth control, but I don't remember exact details now. I think it was when Lorelai had a pregnancy scare after eating an apple? Anyway I would like to think that since she was sleeping with Logan when he was in a relationship (which was also something I wasn't too much a fan of) she would be more careful.

But then again maybe I am too biased because of the two awful pregnancy storylines in season 7. When it all adds up, the whole show somewhat fails with the number of planned pregnancies vs. accidental.

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1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

When it all adds up, the whole show somewhat fails with the number of planned pregnancies vs. accidental.

Wow, I hadn’t done the math, but you’re absolutely right. Unplanned pregnancies: Lorelai, Rory, Lane, April’s mom whose name I can’t remember right now, Sookey (twice, but the vasectomy fakeout was a terrible plot device), am I missing anyone?

Apparently there’s something in the SH water supply...

* Apparently my hatred for Christopher and subconscious desire that he never appeared on the show caused me to blank on Gigi. So there’s another one. Good grief.

Edited by Oldernowiser
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14 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Wow, I hadn’t done the math, but you’re absolutely right. Unplanned pregnancies: Lorelai, Rory, Lane, April’s mom whose name I can’t remember right now, Sookey (twice, but the vasectomy fakeout was a terrible plot device), am I missing anyone?

Apparently there’s something in the SH water supply...

* Apparently my hatred for Christopher and subconscious desire that he never appeared on the show caused me to blank on Gigi. So there’s another one. Good grief.

Anna was Aprils's mom. I don't think Liz's pregnancy was planned either.

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6 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Anna was Aprils's mom. I don't think Liz's pregnancy was planned either.

Forgot about that one. Yikes. I guess it’s always 1955 in Stars Hollow.

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20 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

ow, I hadn’t done the math, but you’re absolutely right. Unplanned pregnancies: Lorelai, Rory, Lane, April’s mom whose name I can’t remember right now, Sookey (twice, but the vasectomy fakeout was a terrible plot device), am I missing anyone?

At first I thought you meant that Lane herself was unplanned and I was wondering how you knew that.  LOL.  IDK that Lane's pregnancy was all that unplanned.  they were married.  Maybe they just figured they would have kids when they had kids.

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2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

IDK that Lane's pregnancy was all that unplanned.  they were married.  Maybe they just figured they would have kids when they had kids.

I thought the story line on Lane's pregnancy was a faulty/broken condom, no?

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Small items:
The person who rejected Rory for the web publisher job (in the 10 years after show) was played by the Julia Goldani Telles, who had played Whitney Solloway in The Affair.  Whitney was my all-time favorite whiney brat in all of TV.   And here she stomps on the all-time nice girl.  Interesting casting choice.

Rory went to Yale.  Smart, smart, smart...studied hard...but somehow did not learn how to adjust to contemporary news business shifts (unlike the trust fund kid, who studied just hard enough to get by, then demonstrated that he had learned how to adjust to the contemporary shift quite well). Hmm...is there a message here?

The most frustrating part about this series is the way that Lorelai could never make decisions without throwing a hissy-fit.  Good grief: Max, Christopher, Luke...geez...enough already!

Probably the most honest part of the series was the Yale seniors who acknowledged they had little idea of how to translate their majors into post-college careers. Yes, Art majors do not seem to make the same income as a Finance major.  But those Finance majors can acquire lots and lots of art.  Hmm...

The Jess Mariano (Milo Ventimiglia) character was infuriating.  Sullen, very smart, but incapable of communicating his thoughts.
Really different role in The Art of Racing in the Rain

The Max Medina character (Scott Cohen) has 111 acting credits.  Busy man!

 

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38 minutes ago, grommit2 said:

Small items:
The person who rejected Rory for the web publisher job (in the 10 years after show) was played by the Julia Goldani Telles, who had played Whitney Solloway in The Affair.  Whitney was my all-time favorite whiney brat in all of TV.   And here she stomps on the all-time nice girl.  Interesting casting choice.

Rory went to Yale.  Smart, smart, smart...studied hard...but somehow did not learn how to adjust to contemporary news business shifts (unlike the trust fund kid, who studied just hard enough to get by, then demonstrated that he had learned how to adjust to the contemporary shift quite well). Hmm...is there a message here?

The most frustrating part about this series is the way that Lorelai could never make decisions without throwing a hissy-fit.  Good grief: Max, Christopher, Luke...geez...enough already!

Probably the most honest part of the series was the Yale seniors who acknowledged they had little idea of how to translate their majors into post-college careers. Yes, Art majors do not seem to make the same income as a Finance major.  But those Finance majors can acquire lots and lots of art.  Hmm...

The Jess Mariano (Milo Ventimiglia) character was infuriating.  Sullen, very smart, but incapable of communicating his thoughts.
Really different role in The Art of Racing in the Rain

The Max Medina character (Scott Cohen) has 111 acting credits.  Busy man!

 

Rory is certainly very smart but she was never a game player. She excelled in the traditional and predictable path of academia but the days of the ace lady reporter chasing amazing leads for the prestigious newspaper are gone. Now you have to be much more of a freelance hustler who understands the game.

When things do not go her way Rory can be a weird combination of petulant and mousy.

I want to add that she was kind of a game player in the beginning when she made lemonade out of lemons but that Rory has been long gone.

Also, does anyone in this show have a planned pregnancy?

Edited by qtpye
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1 hour ago, chessiegal said:

I don't remember Liz's pregnancy to be unplanned.

IIRC, Liz said the pregnancy was a surprise to Luke, claiming that TJ had left her over it. Then Luke lost his mind at TJ, who said it was Liz who threw HIM out, and that he was on board with the whole pregnancy thing. But I may have that wrong...those two were highly forgettable on a good day.

Edited by Oldernowiser
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3 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Sookey (twice, but the vasectomy fakeout was a terrible plot device),

Only Sookie's third pregnancy (the one after the vasectomy nonsense) was unplanned. Davey was the result of the "four-in-four" discussion, and when Jackson was elected Town Selectman he mentioned that he didn't really want the job, one reason was because he and Sookie were trying to have another baby. He even mentioned the doctor having them on a "schedule" (TMI, but okay LOL) so definitely planned.

Of course, with the doctor being THAT involved, it wouldn't have taken yelling at Norman Mailer for Sookie to realize she was pregnant, but that's ASP for you.

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Granted I'm not the show's target audience, but while I liked early Rory and found her mom annoying, I came to admire Lorelai more. Sure, she could still be annoying (you couldn't even call your daughter to say you were getting married?) but she worked damn hard to go from working as a maid to running her own hotel and earning a degree while bringing up her daughter as a single parent. I had similar feelings toward Paris - sure she was abrasive as hell and came from privilege, but she worked damn hard and never let anything get in the way of what she wanted. I could easily see her being the next Hillary Clinton and running for President one day (and probably losing for much the same reasons).

On 4/13/2021 at 5:15 PM, chessiegal said:

I thought the story line on Lane's pregnancy was a faulty/broken condom, no?

Didn't she get pregnant on their wedding night? I seem to recall her swearing off sex after her first time and then getting pregnant (I may be conflating two storylines, it's been a while).

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Quote

Didn't she get pregnant on their wedding night? I seem to recall her swearing off sex after her first time and then getting pregnant (I may be conflating two storylines, it's been a while).

She must have because she said she couldn't believe she got pregnant her first time having sex.

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1 hour ago, John Potts said:

Didn't she get pregnant on their wedding night? I seem to recall her swearing off sex after her first time and then getting pregnant (I may be conflating two storylines, it's been a while).

Yes.

Quote

RORY: Um...okay. You have to walk me through what happened. I mean, not graphically, but help me out here.

LANE: Okay. So we decided that, for our first time, since it was such a big deal and everything, since we've been waiting and waiting and god, if I'd known what it was going to be like, I would have gladly kept waiting. But anyway we decided to re-create the scene in "From Here To Eternity."

RORY: Wow. Ambitious. Sex on the beach.

LANE: Anyway, the whole thing was a disaster. Because you know what movies don't tell you? That sand is basically dirt. It was dirty. It was cold. My hands were shaking. I'm trying to remember stuff about condoms and bananas. And then suddenly I realize, we got crabs, live ones that are scuttling all over us. Zach starts freaking out because, apparently, he's afraid of shellfish. And it's getting colder and dirtier. And at some point, this pervert with a snorkel mask appears out of nowhere. And I'm thinking, "we took three buses from Pedro's apartment for this."

RORY: Oh, Lane.

LANE: Yeah, just talking about it makes me feel sick and queasy.

Quote

RORY: Sorry I didn't call first. I don't know the protocol for married friends. I just had to get out of my house. If I were there for one more second, I think I would have had to karate-chop my mom. I swear, just chopped her in half. I guess I...[she sees Lane sitting on the floor] Lane, are you okay? Did the doctor say you have a parasite?

LANE: In a manner of speaking. [Sighs] I'm pregnant.

RORY: Shut up.

LANE: I'm pregnant.

RORY: You're not.

LANE: I am.

RORY: No.

LANE: Yes. I went to the doctor and he told me. I'm pregnant with a baby.

RORY: No.

LANE: Yes.

RORY: Wow.

LANE: Yeah, wow.

RORY: Oh, my god. Wow. Wow. How did Zach take it?

LANE: He didn't. I haven't told him yet. I haven't told anyone. I just came back here and sat here, pregnant.

RORY: You're not.

LANE: I am.

RORY: Really?

LANE: Really, I guess the combination of salt water and seaweed and discount Mexican condoms and terrible, terrible sex leads to a baby.

RORY: A baby.

LANE: A baby. Sex sucks so bad. Sex sucks worse than I thought.

RORY: You only did it one time, and - wow, a baby.

LANE: That's what you get, folks, for making whoopee.

 

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Discount Mexican condoms - thanks. I knew it had something yo do with condoms.

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6 hours ago, John Potts said:

Granted I'm not the show's target audience

I was/am squarely in the show's target audience when it aired (female and three years younger than Rory), but I've discovered over the years that there were plenty of guys my age watching the show as it aired as well. They just didn't admit it as often. Whether it was intentional or not, I think the target audience for Gilmore Girls was larger than anyone suspected.

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In seasons 1 and 2, yes, I very much liked Rory. I liked her less and less each following season. Peak hate was season 4 and 5. I absolutely detested her in the revival or season 8, I guess. Now I I've worked myself up just thinking about her!

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15 hours ago, msani19 said:

In seasons 1 and 2, yes, I very much liked Rory. I liked her less and less each following season. Peak hate was season 4 and 5. I absolutely detested her in the revival or season 8, I guess. Now I I've worked myself up just thinking about her!

I was having trouble liking her and then she got with Logan and it was really down hill from there. I think peak hate was when she stole the boat and moved in with R&E. No bueno.

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2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I was having trouble liking her and then she got with Logan and it was really down hill from there. I think peak hate was when she stole the boat and moved in with R&E. No bueno.

So Peaches...Lorelai would have been just about, lets see...16/17 with infant Rory, add 21 years when Rory graduates from Yale, then another 10 years to show the 4-episode series...that makes about 48 years old when she finally agrees to marry Luke. 
Also, Rory would be about 31 when she gets rejected for that web publishing job (by my all-time favorite whiney teen, Whitney from "The Affair".)

Is that about right?

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1 hour ago, grommit2 said:

So Peaches...Lorelai would have been just about, lets see...16/17 with infant Rory, add 21 years when Rory graduates from Yale, then another 10 years to show the 4-episode series...that makes about 48 years old when she finally agrees to marry Luke. 
Also, Rory would be about 31 when she gets rejected for that web publishing job (by my all-time favorite whiney teen, Whitney from "The Affair".)

Is that about right?

Sound good to me. Where are you going with this?

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2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Sound good to me. Where are you going with this?

Just figuring things out.  
Case closed!

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4 minutes ago, grommit2 said:

Just figuring things out.  
Case closed!

Arrgghh! What case? Don't leave us in suspense.

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3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Arrgghh! What case? Don't leave us in suspense.

It's illegal to get engaged at 48.  47 is fine.  49 is fine.  But not 48.  One of those weird laws on the Stars Hollow books that never got removed.  Like limiting flying deer hunting season, making it a felony to draw a fake body chalk line, not dying your hair more than once in a 24 hour period.  Lorelai is going down.

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1 hour ago, Katy M said:

It's illegal to get engaged at 48.  47 is fine.  49 is fine.  But not 48.  One of those weird laws on the Stars Hollow books that never got removed.  Like limiting flying deer hunting season, making it a felony to draw a fake body chalk line, not dying your hair more than once in a 24 hour period.  Lorelai is going down.

 

GG Kirk coming for you.jpg

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This has a lot of good points that we have made on this board.

 

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9 hours ago, qtpye said:

This has a lot of good points that we have made on this board.

 

I just finished watching it. I agree with a lot of it. Two things I disagree with is one of Rory's problems being an Only Child Syndrome. Sure she was an only child but I don't think she was a spoiled brat because she was an only child. Richard and Emily loved and gave her stuff because she went along with their upper crust stuff or at worse didn't mind it. Lorelai raised her the way she wished she had been raised and while she did spoil Rory I think she would have been the same if she had more then one child.  Lorelai took Rory's interests and opinions into account and was involved in her life. Also Lorelai, Richard and Emily all wanted her to be better and do better because of Lorelai's teen pregnancy. Lorelai's problem was she stopped calling Rory on her crap in the later seasons like she did in the early seasons. The other thing I disagreed with was comparing Rory finally going to grow up and get it together like Lorelai had now because she's pregnant. True we haven't seen it yet. But looking in Rory's past I don't see any signs that she's going to do it compared to Lorelai. She may have started off as a maid but she worked her way up to running the place. Then opened up her own inn with Sookie. She went to community college. Those are things she didn't have to do. But she did. In the horrible revival Lorelai's the one who talks with people in the crowd when she tags along with Rory on her assignment. Compared to Rory who didn't have anything prepared, wasn't good at asking questions and fell asleep. Lorelai helps out often in town events organzing them, sewing clothes and other things. Rory just studied. She had to be told over and over that she needed to do more rather then knowing it on her own. She's turned down or blown jobs. I just can't imagine Rory having or getting the same grit that Lorelai had to get a job and work her way up because she'll be a mom.

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More than I like Lorelei.  Rory is the product of a mother who wants to be your friend and thinks you can do no wrong.  I think considering that upbringing and her self inflated sense of importance given to her by her mother, she's what I would expect the result to be.

 

Lorelei is the real jerk.  She's a spoiled obnoxious, rich kid who thinks that her family is awful but has no idea what an awful family actually looks like.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I just finished watching it. I agree with a lot of it. Two things I disagree with is one of Rory's problems being an Only Child Syndrome. Sure she was an only child but I don't think she was a spoiled brat because she was an only child. Richard and Emily loved and gave her stuff because she went along with their upper crust stuff or at worse didn't mind it. Lorelai raised her the way she wished she had been raised and while she did spoil Rory I think she would have been the same if she had more then one child.  Lorelai took Rory's interests and opinions into account and was involved in her life. Also Lorelai, Richard and Emily all wanted her to be better and do better because of Lorelai's teen pregnancy. Lorelai's problem was she stopped calling Rory on her crap in the later seasons like she did in the early seasons. The other thing I disagreed with was comparing Rory finally going to grow up and get it together like Lorelai had now because she's pregnant. True we haven't seen it yet. But looking in Rory's past I don't see any signs that she's going to do it compared to Lorelai. She may have started off as a maid but she worked her way up to running the place. Then opened up her own inn with Sookie. She went to community college. Those are things she didn't have to do. But she did. In the horrible revival Lorelai's the one who talks with people in the crowd when she tags along with Rory on her assignment. Compared to Rory who didn't have anything prepared, wasn't good at asking questions and fell asleep. Lorelai helps out often in town events organzing them, sewing clothes and other things. Rory just studied. She had to be told over and over that she needed to do more rather then knowing it on her own. She's turned down or blown jobs. I just can't imagine Rory having or getting the same grit that Lorelai had to get a job and work her way up because she'll be a mom.

I agree that Rory's problem was not being an only child.

Her problem was, as you put it, Lorelai and almost 95 percent of the people around her thinking that she was the best thing since sliced bread. She was kind of the unofficial Princess of Stars Hallow.

In the beginning, we would see Rory work for things.

Later, I felt that Paris's main purpose was to show how lame it was to try hard when Rory almost had everything handed to her with very little effort. Ironically, this only made me like Paris better.

I rolled my eyes in the video when Lorelai describes Rory as a "kid reading a book with a halo".

Also, Rory keeps going for married or engaged men because she believes that her exes "belong" to her. This is beyond narcissistic and definitely not angelic.

One of Rory's problems is her mother sees her as perfect and this really has not changed. I think Lorelai thinks this because Rory is quieter, loves to read, and is fairly easy-going and not mouthy like her.

Also, I think the video was making a giant stretch to justify the ending of "A Year in the Life".

No, Rory being pregnant at 32 with an ivy league degree, a loving supportive mother, and probable access to at least some of the Gilmore fortune is nothing like Lorelai being on her own, pregnant at 16.

Lorelai created a life for herself and Rory has failed to do that even with a ton of advantages.

3 minutes ago, dmc said:

More than I like Lorelei.  Rory is the product of a mother who wants to be your friend and thinks you can do no wrong.  I think considering that upbringing and her self inflated sense of importance given to her by her mother, she's what I would expect the result to be.

 

Lorelei is the real jerk.  She's a spoiled obnoxious, rich kid who thinks that her family is awful but has no idea what an awful family actually looks like.  

 

 

When I was little, I dreamed of having a mother/daughter relationship like Lorelai and Rory. As I get older, I am beginning to see it as rather codependent and unhealthy.

Rory is entitled largely because Lorelai raised her with stars in her eyes.

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3 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I agree that Rory's problem was not being an only child.

Her problem was, as you put it, Lorelai and almost 95 percent of the people around her thinking that she was the best thing since sliced bread. She was kind of the unofficial Princess of Stars Hallow.

In the beginning, we would see Rory work for things.

Later, I felt that Paris's main purpose was to show how lame it was to try hard when Rory almost had everything handed to her with very little effort. Ironically, this only made me like Paris better.

I rolled my eyes in the video when Lorelai describes Rory as a "kid reading a book with a halo".

Also, Rory keeps going for married or engaged men because she believes that her exes "belong" to her. This is beyond narcissistic and definitely not angelic.

One of Rory's problems is her mother sees her as perfect and this really has not changed. I think Lorelai thinks this because Rory is quieter, loves to read, and is fairly easy-going and not mouthy like her.

Also, I think the video was making a giant stretch to justify the ending of "A Year in the Life".

No, Rory being pregnant at 32 with an ivy league degree, a loving supportive mother, and probable access to at least some of the Gilmore fortune is nothing like Lorelai being on her own, pregnant at 16.

Lorelai created a life for herself and Rory has failed to do that even with a ton of advantages.

When I was little, I dreamed of having a mother/daughter relationship like Lorelai and Rory. As I get older, I am beginning to see it as rather codependent and unhealthy.

Rory is entitled largely because Lorelai raised her with stars in her eyes.

I am not saying people can't be friends with their parents, but that relationship shouldn't supersede the parental one.  Frequently, Rory would do or say things that I would have been in serious trouble for...that Lorelei shrugs off.  

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8 minutes ago, dmc said:

I am not saying people can't be friends with their parents, but that relationship shouldn't supersede the parental one.  Frequently, Rory would do or say things that I would have been in serious trouble for...that Lorelei shrugs off.  

She always saw Rory with rose-colored glasses and that was a big part of the problem. She was so desperate for Rory to be her BFF that she did not really parent her the way she should. 

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8 minutes ago, qtpye said:

She always saw Rory with rose-colored glasses and that was a big part of the problem. She was so desperate for Rory to be her BFF that she did not really parent her the way she should. 

Honestly Lorelei lives a bit of a weird life.  I didn't notice it when I was younger but she really only has one friend.  Her and Suki really don't hang out a lot.  I think Rory is the person she's with most of the time.  And people tell her this all through the show.  Emily tells her that Rory should be doing things with her classmates.  Headmaster Charleston tells her as well.  They all notice that Rory is missing a lot of the experiences typical of a girl her age to hang with her mother.  Lorelei really is living through Rory.  As opposed to carving out a life of her own.  She doesn't really have any hobbies or interests.  Her main interest is Rory.  Then any time she does something on her own, its connected to Rory like dating her teacher.  

I hate to say this but a lot of what Emily and Richard say about her is accurate.  

 

 

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A friend of mine pointed out not long ago that Lorelai wasn't actually qualified to teach Rory anything about romantic relationships because she herself had never been in a functional one. The biggest, most important relationship of Lorelai's life in the early seasons was Christopher, and that was when she herself was a teen. It would also explain her getting so invested in Rory's own teenage relationships, since she has no perspective telling her that these relationships feel more high-stakes than they usually end up being in the great scheme of things. The whole time I rewatched the original series, I just wanted to shake her and say, "Rory is very unlikely to end up with Jess OR Dean. Relax, lady and stop caring so much!" Seriously, no one who is not in high school (including people who are younger than high schoolers) should be that interested in the love lives of people who are.

I also agree that Rory's problem was not that she was an only child. To be honest, I'm surprised that anyone is still trying to advance the idea that only children are more prone to selfishness or anything else. You can take pretty much any personality trait and come up with a just-so story for why someone has it based on their family/childhood: "She's selfish because she didn't have siblings growing up, so she never learned how to share." vs. "She's selfish because she had so many siblings growing that if she wasn't protective of her things, they'd get stolen or broken," or, "He's not good with authority because his parents never set any limits and so he doesn't think anyone has the right to tell him what to do," vs. "He's not good with authority because his parents were really strict and so he rebels against anyone who tries to tell him what to do."

Anyway, back to the topic. It's weird that Lorelai remains so convinced of Rory's infallibility, even after Rory misses her college graduation because she ditched school to go to New York to hang out with Jess.* I get that the fact that it was really out of character for Rory was the point because it spoke to the strength of her feelings for Jess, and that teenagers sometimes do dumb, selfish things that they haven't thought through. But still, if I were Lorelai, that would have been the point where I would have realized that there was at least one major flaw my kid had to work on before being sent out into the world.

 

*Side note: why didn't Chilton ever call Lorelai to find out why Rory didn't turn up? My public high school was all over unexcused absences; I can't imagine that a swanky private school wouldn't immediately call the parents to check on a student who just didn't turn up to school one day.

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5 hours ago, Hera said:

I also agree that Rory's problem was not that she was an only child. To be honest, I'm surprised that anyone is still trying to advance the idea that only children are more prone to selfishness or anything else. You can take pretty much any personality trait and come up with a just-so story for why someone has it based on their family/childhood: "She's selfish because she didn't have siblings growing up, so she never learned how to share." vs. "She's selfish because she had so many siblings growing that if she wasn't protective of her things, they'd get stolen or broken," or, "He's not good with authority because his parents never set any limits and so he doesn't think anyone has the right to tell him what to do," vs. "He's not good with authority because his parents were really strict and so he rebels against anyone who tries to tell him what to do."

i agree with your stance against generalizations.  I think in Rory's case, though, Lorelai conentrated a lot of effort into Rory that she wouldn't have been able to if she had had to spread it around to more than one kid.  Also, with more than one kid, (even though it already boggles the imagination), they woudln't have been able to eat every single meal out, so I think Rory and the other kid(s) would have had to figure things out like cooking.  I actually would be interested to see an AU of Rory's life where she has a younger sister. Is this sister more beloved than Rory?  Is she a complete rebel, screaming out in destructive ways for all the attention Rory gets?  Does she get to go to Chilton, too, or does she get Rory's sloggy seconds?

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8 hours ago, Hera said:

"She's selfish because she didn't have siblings growing up, so she never learned how to share." vs. "She's selfish because she had so many siblings growing that if she wasn't protective of her things, they'd get stolen or broken," or, "He's not good with authority because his parents never set any limits and so he doesn't think anyone has the right to tell him what to do," vs. "He's not good with authority because his parents were really strict and so he rebels against anyone who tries to tell him what to do."

Such a great point! There's a podcaster I listen to occasionally who always says something I find really important -- we like to think that most people form opinions rationally, but that's not true. People form opinions emotionally, and then they come up with "facts" to rationalize their opinion. Your statements are the perfect example of that. In both cases the "facts" sound like a completely reasonable rationale for the final opinion, but they are the complete opposite of each other.

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8 hours ago, Hera said:

A friend of mine pointed out not long ago that Lorelai wasn't actually qualified to teach Rory anything about romantic relationships because she herself had never been in a functional one. The biggest, most important relationship of Lorelai's life in the early seasons was Christopher, and that was when she herself was a teen. It would also explain her getting so invested in Rory's own teenage relationships, since she has no perspective telling her that these relationships feel more high-stakes than they usually end up being in the great scheme of things. The whole time I rewatched the original series, I just wanted to shake her and say, "Rory is very unlikely to end up with Jess OR Dean. Relax, lady and stop caring so much!" Seriously, no one who is not in high school (including people who are younger than high schoolers) should be that interested in the love lives of people who are.

I also agree that Rory's problem was not that she was an only child. To be honest, I'm surprised that anyone is still trying to advance the idea that only children are more prone to selfishness or anything else. You can take pretty much any personality trait and come up with a just-so story for why someone has it based on their family/childhood: "She's selfish because she didn't have siblings growing up, so she never learned how to share." vs. "She's selfish because she had so many siblings growing that if she wasn't protective of her things, they'd get stolen or broken," or, "He's not good with authority because his parents never set any limits and so he doesn't think anyone has the right to tell him what to do," vs. "He's not good with authority because his parents were really strict and so he rebels against anyone who tries to tell him what to do."

Anyway, back to the topic. It's weird that Lorelai remains so convinced of Rory's infallibility, even after Rory misses her college graduation because she ditched school to go to New York to hang out with Jess.* I get that the fact that it was really out of character for Rory was the point because it spoke to the strength of her feelings for Jess, and that teenagers sometimes do dumb, selfish things that they haven't thought through. But still, if I were Lorelai, that would have been the point where I would have realized that there was at least one major flaw my kid had to work on before being sent out into the world.

 

*Side note: why didn't Chilton ever call Lorelai to find out why Rory didn't turn up? My public high school was all over unexcused absences; I can't imagine that a swanky private school wouldn't immediately call the parents to check on a student who just didn't turn up to school one day.

It bugged me that Lorelai remain convinced of Rory's infallibility straight through college and the revival. I get in high school when Rory was still a pretty good kid and the faults Rory had there was still plenty of time for those to be worked out as she grew up. Its after that I don't understand how she still has it. Rory changed a lot in college and her unlikeable traits became more of who she was. She was spoiled, privilage and unable to handle any kind of criticism. She messed up a lot. The biggest one of course being her deciding to drop out because one person told her she didn't have it and going to her grandparents because Lorelai wasn't on board with her dropping out. But after the months of separation and Rory acting like a spoiled brat. She comes home and Lorelai lets it go. That should have made Lorelai see faults in her daughter. Nope, she just glosses it over and everyone acts like Rory didn't do anything wrong. That just continues into the revival. Lorelai makes fun of the 30 crowd despite the fact Rory's pretty much in the same boat. The only difference is we can see Rory didn't even bother to try. She's completely unprofessional, she doesn't prepare for an interview, she drops assignments and falls asleep during one. She jets back and forth from London and has her stuff in various people's house. How does she still see Rory so perfect? It makes no sense. She should be seeing Rory as she is and also disappointed in her daughter. Rory was given so many opportunities but she doesn't do anything with it. She's still treating men like crap. Lorelai in the early seasons called Rory on her crap. She seem to have a little more of better perspective of her daughter in the early seasons. How does she end up so completely blind?   

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