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S04.E06: Terra Nullius

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2 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

In situations of all kind? Also in funerals? Also to a child?

I have watched sport and have noticed how differently the watchers of different react react in similar situations. Nobody laughs if a figure skater falls - on the contrary, he/she is applauded, when he/she then succeeds even in a easier jump. Instead, hockey watchers can be quite cruel and even yell obscenities - but not everywhere, supporters of some teams are quite nice and even congratulate the supporters of the winning team.

So I have drawn a conclusion that whether we laugh aloud (instead being amused inside) is a social norm. 


Did you miss the part where I said if it's funny?  Laughter can be appropriate at a funeral, especially if a speaker is recalling a funny story about the deceased.  But I don't know what the original comment was anymore and I'm not digging through the thread to determine what started this line of commentary.  If it's funny I'll laugh. 

 

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2 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Did you miss the part where I said if it's funny?  Laughter can be appropriate at a funeral, especially if a speaker is recalling a funny story about the deceased.  But I don't know what the original comment was anymore and I'm not digging through the thread to determine what started this line of commentary.  If it's funny I'll laugh.

It was a question of laughing at someone who *fails* (in this episode the Australians were laughing at Charles who off the horse). 

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6 hours ago, Roseanna said:

It was a question of laughing at someone who *fails* (in this episode the Australians were laughing at Charles who off the horse). 

Oh boo freakin' hoo. The petulant manboy fell of his horse and people laughed. And he stalked off (I think) like a petulant child. I can't remember and don't feel like going back to check.

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Charles has fallen at Polo before.   They could see he wasn't hurt.   It was funny.   If he hadn't been such a petulant child, he could have turned the moment into a save for the Monarchy. or  you just know, just ignored it and got back on the horse like GOOD sportsman are expected to.  But because he is Emo Charles and he is a self-centered prat, he couldn't do that.   He just moped that nobody likes him.   

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The scene at the beginning shows that Camila is a “wind beneath my wings” type of supporter. In fact, Charles starts out the joke by saying, “I can’t tell this joke without her.” Charles gets all of the glory for the amusement and Camila is skilled at propping him up. Plus she’s neither overly pretty or charming so she doesn’t take the shine away from him.

Di is the opposite of this. That is not an insult to her. Whenever Charles told a joke with Diana there, his jokes fell flat. Because she’s pretty and more visually interesting, people’s attention just shifts to her. And his jokes suck, sorry, no charm at all, come on.

But to Charles’ credit, he spent part of his speeches talking about how great his wife was: “luckiest man alive” was the catchphrase. Maybe someone told him to say that, but he was doing his part to show her admiration. When he was gushing about her at the last event and she made a face, probably instinctively, it undercut what he was saying. She could have blown a kiss to him or shouted something lovingly cheesy and the audience would have said awww, but she’s not the wind beneath my wings type. She does tend to think of herself first, which is natural. It doesn’t work for the positions she has been hired to fill though. Her whole point is to lift up the crown. If that means every time someone asks her about herself she finds a way to include talking about the future king, that’s what she is expected to do.

Charles is flawed, but his flaws are so common to men. He is under a microscope constantly so he gets picked apart for his human failings. But least we forget all the hoops Elizabeth jumped through to make Philip feel like he was admired in the beginning of their journey as royals and he wasn’t even the crown! I imagine this happens to a lot of men with pretty, intelligent, talented, charismatic, breathing (I could go on) wives. Some husbands have a minute/years of ego bruising.

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On 11/17/2020 at 1:19 AM, 7isBlue said:

Yes! They were not equals going into the relationship by any definition. Not only was he years older and sexually experienced, he was a royal! She was still a teenager, a virgin, and abandoned by her mother at a very young age. She thought she had literally found her Prince Charming, who would show her love, and whose family would become her family, just like any other young fiancé. 

Her sister had dated Charles and seemed a lot more savvy about how things work when it comes to the royals.  It seems to me that Diana's family were abysmal in preparing her for what was coming.  

On 11/22/2020 at 1:06 PM, Neurochick said:

Someone should have sat Charles down and told him that the world is unfair, I mean he didn't do anything to achieve his position except be born.  

Except that we've seen Charles work hard and undergo sacrifices because of the position that was thrust on him.  Being shunted off to Wales for 3 months to learn that mind-bending language just when he was hitting his stride at Cambridge was no picnic.

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I get confused in every bulimia scene, as horrible as they are. Why do they always show a clock? What does a clock have to do with anything? Minor complaint I know, but it takes me out of the show wondering what is going on with that. 

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7 hours ago, Crankybroad said:

I get confused in every bulimia scene, as horrible as they are. Why do they always show a clock? What does a clock have to do with anything? Minor complaint I know, but it takes me out of the show wondering what is going on with that. 

Maybe to show that it's happening at night, and that she spends a lot of time doing this?

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It's about the ritual. People with bulemia don't just throw up randomly, the sudden eating of sweet stuff, the waiting a certain amount of time, the throwing up and the washing at the end is all part of Diana's ritual.

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Wow, Charles was horrible in this one. He's mad at Diana when she does a bad job then mad at him when she does a good job. Him saying he loved her seemed really out of the blue. It would have been nice if we ever saw a moment when that might have been possible. It might even had made more sense if he said it to her during their brief moment of being happy on the tour. He can't handle being upstaged by her, and it was "his" tour. For a moment I did wonder why even Camilla likes him, to have to constantly cheer him up, prop him up, don't dare upstage him, everything is about him. Who would want to do that?

Elizabeth was great in the last one and terrible in this one. I do like the remark about Elizabeth not bringing the kids along might have had consequences. Elizabeth of course misses it completely because the tour had gone well. Hey, maybe that's one of the many reasons your kids are all messed up? She also seems to have rose color glasses about her and Philip's tour, Philip complained constantly and then they had that fight which was seen by reporters. 

I really hate how everyone treats Diana in this show. Elizabeth gets mad when Diana comes to talk to her about her marriage for criticizing Charles, Anne's jealous of the attention Diana gets, Charles, even the way his staff member talked to her was out of line. Yet I really doubt Charles minded. 

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One thing that caught my attention was from the opening scene, when Hawke referred to Charles as a "Pom".  According to the internets that is short for a Pomeranian dog.  But I thought Australians were originally known as "Pomeys".  

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2 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

One thing that caught my attention was from the opening scene, when Hawke referred to Charles as a "Pom".  According to the internets that is short for a Pomeranian dog.  But I thought Australians were originally known as "Pomeys".  

From Wiktionary:

pom: 

Australian from 1912. Shortening of pomegranate, rhyming slang for immigrant (“imme-granate”), with additional reference to the fact that the harsh Australian sun could turn British immigrants' skin pomegranate red.

pom (plural poms):

(Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, derogatory) An Englishman, a Briton; a person of British descent. 

Synonyms: Brit, limey

Usage notes:  

The use of this word to refer to a British person is a racial slur. There has been lots of debate on the subject, but it is taken as a term of offence by those at whom it is directed.

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1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

From Wiktionary:

pom: 

Australian from 1912. Shortening of pomegranate, rhyming slang for immigrant (“imme-granate”), with additional reference to the fact that the harsh Australian sun could turn British immigrants' skin pomegranate red.

pom (plural poms):

(Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, derogatory) An Englishman, a Briton; a person of British descent. 

Synonyms: Brit, limey

Usage notes:  

The use of this word to refer to a British person is a racial slur. There has been lots of debate on the subject, but it is taken as a term of offence by those at whom it is directed.

Thanks for that.  I have also noticed that Australians use the c-word almost as a positive thing, like "dude" or "buddy".  Funny place, that Land Down Under.  Even the water swirls the other way.  

And as a Californian I imagine that Arizonans have any number of terms for us.  

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5 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

And as a Californian I imagine that Arizonans have any number of terms for us.  

Probably as many as you guys have for us "Zonies" who spend time in San Diego every summer.  LOL.

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God, Charles, you utter dickhead.

I think if someone took my child to go stay thousands of miles away from me I think I would have made a huge scene not caring if the entire world was watching. I am still no big fan of Diana, but I loved her scenes as a mother.

Charles and Camilla must have (had) the most bizarre pillow talks ever.

Glamourous balls. He said glamourous balls on national tv. I cringed across the space time continuum.

I was noticing the stark difference of sunlit, loving Australia and cold, tough love England. 

That conversation with the Queen though. Whatever made Diana think that she of all people would understand her plight? It baffled me.

That hug at end wins for funniest thing I've ever seen on this show. There was much snorting.

 

 

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This episode was just so painful to watch.  It opens with Charles and Camilla acting like an old married couple, finishing each other's lines and having a grand old time together in front of their friends.  Diana wasn't there, and I don't know what Andrew Parker Bowles looks like on this show so I wasn't sure if he was there or not.

On 11/21/2020 at 2:27 AM, swanpride said:

The joke was somewhat uncomfortable because rape isn't a laughing matter, but I admit that I kind of snorted over the punchline nevertheless. But it is beyond me how so many people were laughing beforehand about the raping part.

Agreed, I don't understand what was so funny about it.  People are laughing because a man is getting raped in the butt by a bear?  What's so funny about that?  I'm not sure if this scene was meant to show how much Charles and Camilla's friends loved him and thought he walked on water, but then when he told what he thought was a joke at that dinner about how women are always doing things behind their man's back, the crowd gasped.  No Charles, you really are not a funny person.

 

When Diana was talking to the Queen about how Charles resents her and Anne resents her and maybe even the Queen herself resents her, you would think the Queen would have understood.  Surely she remembers how much Philip resented her in their early years.  Couldn't she have had an ounce of sympathy?  Was this supposed to harken back to the earlier episode when the Queen said she can't show emotion?

The whole tour did remind me of the Season 1 episode when the Queen is a sensation on tour but Philip is constantly making gaffes or clearly isn't as loved by the public.  Like when he said something to a country's chief about his "funny hat" and Elizabeth rebuked him and said it was a crown.  Here it was Diana who was adored and Charles not.

Question, why did so many of the crowd and posters call her "Lady Di"?  I know she was Lady Diana before she was married, but obviously she is now Princess Diana (or I guess more correctly, "Diana, Princess of Wales") so why weren't there any "Princess Diana" posters?

 

On 11/17/2020 at 12:07 PM, swanpride said:

It's just so odd because the show constantly shows the Queen having a meal with her mother, her sister and Anne. Granted, if Anne weren't there I would just assume that married women simply are expected to have and stay in their own households, but since Anne is married and nevertheless around all the time, it is kind of odd that Diana has next to no contact with anyone from the family outside of Balmoral.

I thought that Anne lived in the country with her horses, not far from Charles in Gloucestershire.  Didn't she say she loves it in the country?  Then why is she always at gossip hour with her mom, aunt, and grandmother?  Clearly the women still considered Diana an outsider.  Since she was married to Charles, wouldn't it have been nice to have included her these "ladies who lunch" meetings?  They obviously didn't want her there.

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10 hours ago, blackwing said:

When Diana was talking to the Queen about how Charles resents her and Anne resents her and maybe even the Queen herself resents her, you would think the Queen would have understood.  Surely she remembers how much Philip resented her in their early years. 

We were shown in Season One, the King bluntly telling Phillip that supporting Elizabeth was his job.  I wonder if no one ever told Diana, or if they thought as a female, she would already know that this was her job.

As an American, the only protocol "rules" I know are from newspaper articles or this show, so this may be wrong.  But one of the things I noticed was how many times Diana walked ahead of Charles while on the Australian tour, it seems as if this is a fairly basic no-no.  He is the Prince of Wales and the heir.  

 

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38 minutes ago, seewillrun said:

As an American, the only protocol "rules" I know are from newspaper articles or this show, so this may be wrong.  But one of the things I noticed was how many times Diana walked ahead of Charles while on the Australian tour, it seems as if this is a fairly basic no-no.  He is the Prince of Wales and the heir.  

I've done extensive (2 minutes) research on Google.  Apparently, the order of entry and who walks behind whom is only really important for formal events, and at more casual events, the order of entry can change.

Because stuff like this matters?  LOL.

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On 11/22/2020 at 11:58 AM, Blakeston said:

The people holding up signs mocking him (and his ears) were not treating him as a friend. Neither were the crowds who outright booed him. Or the people who told him they only showed up to see Diana. Or the prime minister talking about how if Charles had come by himself, the Australian people probably would have agreed to leave the commonwealth.

Charles could have handled things better, but the way he was treated was humiliating.

The context here is also important, though. Charles is coming to Australia as their future king, and Australians who resent that relationship don't like him or anything he stands for--that's why there was such an emphasis on how Diana didn't seem like you expect royalty to be like. Charles was exactly what they expected royalty to be like. They didn't see themselves as laughing like a bully, they were laughing at the KING who considered himself their natural soverign falling on his butt while playing polo, a cartoonishly upperclass snob sport.

On 11/23/2020 at 12:57 AM, chocolatine said:

I think the shared rape/bestiality joke between Charles and Camilla was supposed to be another example how well suited they've always been for each other, but I still find both of them irredeemable. For all of the Queen's coldness, she is a strong, principled woman who puts her duty above all else. Charles has only ever put his own needs and wants first. He disgusts me. 

To me it was less that they were well-suited for each other and more that Camilla was able to make Charles look good and put herself in the supporting role. She knew to always give him the punch line.

 

On 12/5/2020 at 11:24 PM, blackwing said:

Agreed, I don't understand what was so funny about it.  People are laughing because a man is getting raped in the butt by a bear?  What's so funny about that?  I'm not sure if this scene was meant to show how much Charles and Camilla's friends loved him and thought he walked on water, but then when he told what he thought was a joke at that dinner about how women are always doing things behind their man's back, the crowd gasped.  No Charles, you really are not a funny person.

I swear I remember that incident at the time because it was a thing--but I think people did laugh at Charles' joke about women doing things behind your back. The show was playing it up as if the world was so protective of Diana they all thought he was a cad. But it maybe works if you think of it as being from Charles' pov. Even if people laughed, they didn't laugh as much or as warmly as they laughed at her eye-roll.

 

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On 12/6/2020 at 6:24 AM, blackwing said:

When Diana was talking to the Queen about how Charles resents her and Anne resents her and maybe even the Queen herself resents her, you would think the Queen would have understood.  Surely she remembers how much Philip resented her in their early years.  Couldn't she have had an ounce of sympathy?  Was this supposed to harken back to the earlier episode when the Queen said she can't show emotion?

I don't think it's generally a good idea to complain about one's husband and sister-in-law to their mother who in most cases naturally sympathizes with their children.

As for Elizabeth, she is famously bad in dealing with personal matters. Just like the Queen Mother, she doesn't like to hear bad news and only hopes when one doesn't do anything, they disappear.

Edited by Roseanna · Reason: changed good for bad - the meaning was wrong!
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3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

To me it was less that they were well-suited for each other and more that Camilla was able to make Charles look good and put herself in the supporting role. She knew to always give him the punch line.

Same here. Camille mentioned during the lunch with Diana a few episodes ago that Charles doesn't like to be upstaged. Watching this scene and remembering other things Camille mentioned and Charles says to his mother during her visit. He likes people to change to fit his needs, and building that estate to his wants and needs. It made me wonder what Camilla gets out of the relationship. Is it really fun for her to have to constantly cheer him up on the phone every day, to make sure Charles looks good, make sure gets the punch line, and everything else? When he wanted her to drop everything and come to Scotland she has to remind him that she has a husband and kids. Not that he really cares because he's all 'that's never stopped you before'. As much I thought Charles was an ass to Diana he's really not any better to Camilla. 

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7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Is it really fun for her to have to constantly cheer him up on the phone every day, to make sure Charles looks good, make sure gets the punch line, and everything else?

Apparently it is. That's not a relationship I would want, but it works for them.

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On 11/23/2020 at 12:57 AM, chocolatine said:

I knew Diana struggled with bulimia, but didn't realize just how thin she was at that time.

Although Saturday Night Fever came out in 1977, it set off a tight jeans fashion that, since it only looked good on the very slim, could have contributed to how Diana thought she should look. (Maybe the puffy jeans of the early 80s was a backlash to that.)

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I prefer princes who don't fall off horses.

But seriously, folk, I couldn't help thinking back to the grace with which JFK reacted when Jackie took Paris by storm. He made some self-effacing joke, like "I'm the guy that was with Jackie Kennedy." This show in Season Whatever tried to tell us that JFK actually was pissed off at the attention she was getting, but I don't believe it for a second. He was smart enough to know an asset when he had one.

I do think Emma Corrin is getting Diana's body language right. Something in the way she holds herself while standing, as if her shoulders are collapsing in against each other.

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1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

But seriously, folk, I couldn't help thinking back to the grace with which JFK reacted when Jackie took Paris by storm. He made some self-effacing joke, like "I'm the guy that was with Jackie Kennedy." This show in Season Whatever tried to tell us that JFK actually was pissed off at the attention she was getting, but I don't believe it for a second. He was smart enough to know an asset when he had one.

 

Also, JFK had little reason to feel overshadowed since he'd been elected president. Charles actually hadn't done anything more than Diana had. I remember, in fact, somebody IRL suggesting that she wasn't as deserving of status as him since she just married into it and I pointed out that Charles was simply born into it, which required even less work so...

So here we've got two people who are both given some status for an arbitrary reason, but Diana actually is the one who's earning it, yet Charles feels he's earned it by being raised into it. His is the more old-fashioned view of royalty, I'd say.

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A number of posts have been hidden because they either mentioned future history, quoted posts that did, or went beyond the episode. Please stick to the episode, and take discussion of future history or discussion beyond the episode to the appropriate topics. Thank you.

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On 11/28/2020 at 6:11 PM, Inquisitionist said:

Her sister had dated Charles and seemed a lot more savvy about how things work when it comes to the royals.  It seems to me that Diana's family were abysmal in preparing her for what was coming.  

How could her grandmother, lady in waiting, not fill her in.  Her own parents behaved the same way.

OK, I am having trouble getting through this year's episodes.  I can't take one more Diana story - I CAN'T!  I do more FF.

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All of the talk about people laughing at someone falling (something I personally don't do), reminded me of a client who slipped and fell outside of our office, then came in to complain that a fellow from an office down there (he pointed) had laughed about his fall. He felt it was very unkind and rude. Interestingly, the client was Australian and the laugher is now CEO of the company!

I am finding it difficult to admire anyone in the Crown. These people are all pretty horrible and/or messed up. The performances are great! That cringe-worthy unacknowledged hug from Diana was astonishing. According to the Crown, Charles never gave the marriage a chance, it seems. Diana was chosen for vulgar (imo) reasons and she was unprepared for those awful Royals. The only things she seems certain about is fashion and mothering. Otherwise, she seems far less confident than the way I remember real life Diana. 

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Fashion an clothing? Hardly...Diana's style was very questionable, it was only after she had people talking to her about what to wear that it improved considerably. Well, for the time. It was still the 1980s after all. (though I still have a soft spot for the goofy pullover which were a thing back then, I loved those things).

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On 12/10/2020 at 11:57 PM, Milburn Stone said:

But seriously, folk, I couldn't help thinking back to the grace with which JFK reacted when Jackie took Paris by storm. He made some self-effacing joke, like "I'm the guy that was with Jackie Kennedy." This show in Season Whatever tried to tell us that JFK actually was pissed off at the attention she was getting, but I don't believe it for a second. He was smart enough to know an asset when he had one.

The dowager duchess of Devonshire tells in her memoirs that JFK was the only politician who could laugh at himself. She knew him since they were young because she married a man whose late elder brother his late sister Kathleen had married, and their families continued to have contact.

So if JFK was an exception, Charles just behaved like most men at that time did.   

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4 hours ago, Roseanna said:

So if JFK was an exception, Charles just behaved like most men at that time did.   

Maybe. And maybe both genders can be guilty of it. (Apologies for using the word "both" instead of "all.") What I'm thinking is, it can be difficult--sadly difficult--to see our loved ones for who they are, rather than how we believe they reflect on us. Others see our loved ones more objectively--delighting in what there is to be delighted by--than we do sometimes. Let's all work on that in 2021!

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Self-deprecating humor is something Charles should practice.  It's always endearing and really a sign of self-confidence.   Of course for someone like JFK who had enormous charisma and was wildly popular in his own right it's easier,  but anyone can benefit from it, especially when they don't have much else going for them.  I don't know if the RF allows for it, but they should.

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On 12/31/2020 at 5:57 PM, Milburn Stone said:

Maybe. And maybe both genders can be guilty of it.

Of course, sorry.

On 12/31/2020 at 7:53 PM, Razzberry said:

Self-deprecating humor is something Charles should practice.  It's always endearing and really a sign of self-confidence.   Of course for someone like JFK who had enormous charisma and was wildly popular in his own right it's easier,  but anyone can benefit from it, especially when they don't have much else going for them.  I don't know if the RF allows for it, but they should.

JFK's sister, Kathleen, had the same gift and that was one of the reasons why she enchanted so many of young British aristocrats as a 18-year-old-debutante. It must have based on their self-confidence which Charles utterly lacked.

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On 11/16/2020 at 3:00 AM, swanpride said:

Honestly, I always felt that this portrayal of Camilla was kind of unfair. Nothing about the situation was in any way okay, but if Camilla was trapped in an unhappy marriage of her own, it's understandable that she wouldn't give up on Charles, especially if real feelings were involved. Plus, HE could have ended it all along, and he obviously didn't do it. Maybe the show is right and he was also in love with his own fantasy, but in his case, it was romeo and Juliet and not Cinderella. I guess Diana was mostly picked because she was as someone put it once "the last virgin left".

Camilla was not trapped in an unhappy marriage. She was besotted with Andrew for years and wanted to marry him very much, not Charles. Charles became appealing later, when Andrew's serial cheating soured the marriage and she was looking to get a little of her own back. But if Andrew had been faithful, she never would have given Charles the time of day. Same, too, even if Andrew hadn't been faithful if Charles hadn't been the Prince of Wales. Star-crossed, torn apart lovers, they weren't, except in Charles' mind.

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On 1/19/2021 at 9:29 PM, CountryGirl said:

Same, too, even if Andrew hadn't been faithful if Charles hadn't been the Prince of Wales.

There is no way we can know that. 

Nothing we have shown shows that Camilla would be ambitious. 

Spoiler

I think that irl it was rather that Charles needed things Camilla could give him (besides sex that also others could give him) and became dependent on her she liked that (some women are like that).

The great error in this serie that we are not even hinted how and why Charles began the relationship with Camilla anew. Why not begin this season with that?   

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On 11/21/2020 at 7:41 PM, Neurochick said:

I thought this episode was sad.  Charles drove Diana crazy. 

First Charles was upset when Diana flopped at the press conference in Australia. 

Then they had an honest conversation, their first.  They realized they were a married couple, and their events went smoothly, until Diana started to get more attention.  Charles got jealous, he turned cold and Diana turned to her addiction. 

The Queen should have sat both of them down; told them they were a married couple and a united front.  When she has a success it's good for all of them.  But everybody's ego got in the way. 

It's like being hired to do a job; first the boss chastises you for not doing a good enough job; then when you do a great job, he gets pissed because you're better than everybody else.  WTF!!!

I think you are right.  I also think that the Queen was jealous that Diana got a bigger reception than her visit in 1954.  That's why she didn't sit them down and talk to them.

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The episode was well-done but sad, given it was showing an unhappy marriage.  I agree it was strange to have Charles suddenly admit his love for Diana in the middle of the episode, when they had shown zero romantic feelings on either side at all since they got engaged.  The narrative they're going with is Charles had continued cheating with Camilla right from the engagement, and Diana was fully the victim.  Considering that timeline is speculation anyway, maybe they could have had an episode with Diana and Charles in love, before they realized how different they were to explain why he gravitated back to Camilla, who was clearly much more compatible with him in both age and temperament.  Even having Camilla as a bestie phone friend would no doubt have caused problems.

The episode was quite engaging to watch, though, and clearly both Charles and Diana had major issues and would have benefitted from intense counselling.  It's unclear from the show whether Diana had any support from family or friends during this time at all.

Elizabeth was once again presented as cold and inhuman, first clearly having no regrets about leaving her own children alone for 5 months for her own Australian tour, and later in that scene with Diana.  Her words were way too harsh, but I can't blame her for not knowing what to do when Diana hugged her.  I personally hate hugs as well, so I actually identified with her.  At least Elizabeth later at dinner wondered whether Diana had a point.  

Well, regardless of how much of this episode is actually true, the actors who played Charles and Diana did a great job.  They had chemistry and also showed the complexities of how each of them might have felt.

Edited by Camera One
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On 2/7/2021 at 7:20 AM, Camera One said:

Elizabeth was once again presented as cold and inhuman, first clearly having no regrets about leaving her own children alone for 5 months for her own Australian tour

Nowadays mothers must suffer (or present to suffer) pangs of conscience for not being all the time with their children. I think it's quite unreasonable and vain if a mom has had no choice, just as Elizabeth hadn't during her long world tour after the coronation. 

It was different when she left her children to be with her husband in Malta, but that wasn't unusual in that time among the British upper class where children were primarily tended by the nannies.

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1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

It was different when she left her children to be with her husband in Malta, but that wasn't unusual in that time among the British upper class where children were primarily tended by the nannies.

I agree it was different back then, though in this episode, though the whole issue was almost presented with an intended outcome - for the viewers to judge Elizabeth as a cold and unfeeling/unnatural mother.  They made quite a point of it with Elizabeth declaring what a success the Australian tour was and totally unaware of her own lack of consideration of the cost on her two children (they showed Margaret and Anne sharing a look).  And it's also important to remember that this judgement is based on a fictional representation and we don't even know if the real Elizabeth truly feels/felt this way.

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Nowhere else to say this (husband would have no idea what I was talking about) but that habit of Diana ducking her head and shyly looking up through her eyelashes has been driving me crazy for three episodes.  I knew that gesture so well but from where?  Finally got it tonight - Renee Zelleweger as Roxie Hart when being interviewed by the press or on the witness stand.  Exactly the same.  

 

Been binging this since signing up for Netflix a couple of weeks ago (after binging Bridgerton, or course).

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On 2/16/2021 at 8:45 PM, CatWarmer said:

Nowhere else to say this (husband would have no idea what I was talking about) but that habit of Diana ducking her head and shyly looking up through her eyelashes has been driving me crazy for three episodes.  I knew that gesture so well but from where?  Finally got it tonight - Renee Zelleweger as Roxie Hart when being interviewed by the press or on the witness stand.  Exactly the same.  

 

Been binging this since signing up for Netflix a couple of weeks ago (after binging Bridgerton, or course).

Well, that was a performance in 2002, more likely Renee was imitating Diana there.

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On 11/18/2020 at 3:08 PM, bijoux said:

Josh O’Connor looked exactly like Charles to me when they were shown on TV during that disasterous interview* and there was a profile shot of Emma Corrin in the episode that made me go whoa. 

*Does anyone have either recollections or evidence that Diana was this much of a disaster during it? Because that was BAD. 

No she wasn't.  She was magic with the press and the crowds.  If she was as inept as they made her out to be - she would not have had the crowds calling out for her.

Corrin looks like Diana.  But she lacks her immense charisma.  And the show isn't showing how funny and charming she could be. 

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36 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

Corrin looks like Diana.  But she lacks her immense charisma.  And the show isn't showing how funny and charming she could be. 

Diana was one in a million in that regard.  No actress is ever going to get her exactly right.  I think Emma is doing a fantastic job outside of not truly "being" Diana.  Her role is the hardest on this show because so many people have built up Diana in their minds.  Whatever acting decision she makes is never going to be good enough to please everyone.  

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11 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Diana was one in a million in that regard.  No actress is ever going to get her exactly right.  I think Emma is doing a fantastic job outside of not truly "being" Diana.  Her role is the hardest on this show because so many people have built up Diana in their minds.  Whatever acting decision she makes is never going to be good enough to please everyone.  

She could do it if the story decided to include how funny and charming she was.  Having a very brief glimpse of that this episode doesn't cut it.  Another hard person to imitate is Harrison Ford.  He has so much charisma - even Michelle Pfeiffer has said in an interview she was overwelmed by it.  But they got an actor who looked like him to play Han Solo.  And they scripted him to be funny and incorrigible.  Granted it is much easier to get away with it in an action movie.

Regarding Diana's bulimia - I am glad they are addressing it.  But I think I missed how Diana said it started soon after the engagement when Charles called her chubby.  Maybe I missed it.  But if they didn't include that - I don't know what they are doing here.

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I believe that Diana's struggle with bulimia began earlier in her teens, prior to her association with Charles.

Apparently she had it under control and the stress of the 'royal' contributed to the backslide.

 

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12 hours ago, Macbeth said:
13 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Diana was one in a million in that regard.  No actress is ever going to get her exactly right.  I think Emma is doing a fantastic job outside of not truly "being" Diana.  Her role is the hardest on this show because so many people have built up Diana in their minds.  Whatever acting decision she makes is never going to be good enough to please everyone.  

She could do it if the story decided to include how funny and charming she was.  Having a very brief glimpse of that this episode doesn't cut it.  Another hard person to imitate is Harrison Ford.  He has so much charisma - even Michelle Pfeiffer has said in an interview she was overwelmed by it.  But they got an actor who looked like him to play Han Solo.  And they scripted him to be funny and incorrigible.  Granted it is much easier to get away with it in an action movie.

As I was reading OhioPirate's post I was thinking about Carrie Fisher.  She was cast as Princess Leia because she was the daughter of two Hollywood starts and had experience in conducting herself among the high and mighty.  

 

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It occurred to me during this episode that Charles needed a male friend because Camilla seems to fill that role for him.  She drinks, she smokes, she tells raunchy jokes, and she rides horses.  

Diana's Australian wardrobe in this one was fantastic!  The blue ruffly number was not that great in real life, but on the show it's gorgeous.

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saoirse

Stick to discussion of the episode, please. Discussion or mention of future events is NOT ALLOWED in episode topics, including mention of individuals who have not yet appeared or events that occur in future decades. Posts will be removed; repeated violations may incur further sanctions.

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