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S04.E09: Avalanche

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Charles is caught in a deadly avalanche, prompting both him and Diana to reevaluate their commitment to their troubled marriage.

Dropping on Sunday, November 15, 2020.

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Charles is a cad. And this show makes Diana come off badly. Like an immature ditz and major adulterer. Not too pleased with that. 

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Hmmm....but the show portrayed her more as a W word that rhymes with bore. Like a flakey, immature W. But she was elegant and classy and the people loved her. She made the royals seem more real and relatable than the rest of those stuffy drips. But maybe she was a good actress. She had to be though. It was her duty....to be so perfect in the public eye. I dont envy her life at all. 

Edited by Lamima
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This depiction of Charles really makes him seem like a terrible father to William and Harry.  During the pool scene (which I believe was in this episode), he barely seemed to enjoy their amusement.  At William's match he looked bored and uneasy, and he barely showed any affection when they said goodbye to him at school.  I realize Charles was far from the ideal father, and did not give the physical affection Diana gave, but he wasn't completely stone with them.  It seems like the purpose of this depiction is to suggest that being part of the Royal family leeches all humanity from you until you turn into a robot capable of feeling only your own pain.

Edited by Brn2bwild
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13 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

This depiction of Charles really makes him seem like a terrible father to William and Harry.  During the pool scene (which I believe was in this episode), he barely seemed to enjoy their amusement.  At William's match he looked bored and uneasy, and he barely showed any affection when they said goodbye to him at school.  I realize Charles was far from the ideal father, and did not give the physical affection Diana gave, but he wasn't completely stone with them.  It seems like the purpose of this depiction is to suggest that being part of the Royal family leeches all humanity from you until you turn into a robot capable of feeling only your own pain.

I have understood that irl Charles didn't show physical affection towards his sons in public (because he was raised to think it was "non-royal" and therefore felt it was an act to the photographers), but he did so in private. 

We were shown in Australia he enjoyed being with baby William.

Edited by Roseanna · Reason: adding a letter
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5 hours ago, vibeology said:

She was all of those things too. That's rather the point. Diana was many things and that complexity is what makes her fascinating to this day. And I will say, I don't entirely believe the "revolving door" comment that was passed along from Margaret to Anne to Elizabeth. Margaret is overdramatic and Anne was jealous. I can absolutely believe that a few men where there were long-term affairs would be conflated with "she'll sleep with anyone." And the show made it clear that her affairs were in response to Charles cheating on her and ignoring her. She doesn't get to be around friends, she doesn't have her husband around, the rest of the family does their best to stay away from her. She's super lonely and it's hard to look at that and not understand why she went outside of her marriage for companionship.

I don't believe that "revolving door" thing, either, and also put it down to bad feelings on the part of Margaret and Anne. 

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On 11/16/2020 at 7:20 AM, vibeology said:

Margaret is overdramatic and Anne was jealous.

Yes, but it was made clear that they told what was gossiped.

And Anne summed up Charles and Diana's marriage quite well: she fell in love with him but he loved someone else who loved someone else and all were unhappy; the age gap, different characters, hobbies and friends. And finally the best part: there comes in every marriage a moment when one stops trying and realizes it as a mistake and then only lets herself be driven along the river.

In this version Charles had given up trying, and Diana's final attempt is in vain. That's not so unusual among ordinary people, either.

I can't believe that Charles would irl have believed that at that time he would be allowed to divorce or at least marry Camilla.  

On 11/15/2020 at 8:47 PM, peridot said:

I'm surprised that Diana thought that the Uptown Girl performance would be a good idea.  She's been married to Charles several years by this point, and she had to suspect that the dance wouldn't go down well.

Well, in Australia Diana said to Charles that when one of them longs for something, he or she should give it to the other.  But it's a general mistake to believe that people want the same things. 

Cf. Megan gave Don a surprise birthday party and sang a sexy song in Mad men.

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12 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I have understood that irl Charles didn't show physical affection towards his sons in public (because he was raised to think it was "non-royal" and therefore felt it was an act to the photographers), but he did so in private. 

We were shown in Australia he enjoyed being with baby William.

I also was under the impression that Charles was actually a pretty good father. Doesn't he have a pretty close relationship with his sons? Actually, the show last season implied that Charles longed for that kind of bond when he was the house of that couple with their son, and I believe Charles was the first royal father to be in the room when his child was born, wasn't he?

He must have insisted on that, and I'm sure Diana wanted it too. And Diana has said before that they were closest when she was pregnant with Harry, so honestly, I do kind of the get the impression that having their kids was something that may have temporarily bonded them at the time it was happening and I don't think the show conveyed that much at all.

Edited by ruby24
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32 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I also was under the impression that Charles was actually a pretty good father. Doesn't he have a pretty close relationship with his sons? Actually, the show last season implied that Charles longed for that kind of bond when he was the house of that couple with their son, and I believe Charles was the first royal father to be in the room when his child was born, wasn't he?

He must have insisted on that, and I'm sure Diana wanted it too. And Diana has said before that they were closest when she was pregnant with Harry, so honestly, I do kind of the get the impression that having their kids was something that may have temporarily bonded them at the time it was happening and I don't think the show conveyed that much at all.

That may have been true in real life, but in the world of the show, Charles comes across as if he couldn't care less about William and Harry.  The scene with William on the blanket, it was as if Charles had just discovered for the first time that William was his son and not just "the baby." 

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38 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

. . . I believe Charles was the first royal father to be in the room when his child was born, wasn't he?

According to ET Online, "To Philip's credit, however, he later became the first royal to actually be in the room while his wife gave birth (at her request) when she gave birth to Edward in 1964."

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Lord, could they have chosen an actor for Charles that looks MORE like a hunchback turtle?  He looks SO ridiculous, like a cartoon character.  I find him the absolute worst casting choice in the entire series. 

And they are making him out to be such a supreme tool in every single situation involving Diana, plus being so needy and desperate.  This has got to piss him off beyond belief IRL, even if it was all accurate.  

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1 minute ago, leighdear said:

Lord, could they have chosen an actor for Charles that looks MORE like a hunchback turtle?  He looks SO ridiculous, like a cartoon character.  I find him the absolute worst casting choice in the entire series.   

Just out of curiosity, I googled Prince Charles and clicked on the "videos" option to see him walking.  Unless he was looking down while going down steps, I didn't see that huge "hunchback" posture that they're showing on "The Crown."  It gets to the point where it's distracting from whatever else is happening in the scene.

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39 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Just out of curiosity, I googled Prince Charles and clicked on the "videos" option to see him walking.  Unless he was looking down while going down steps, I didn't see that huge "hunchback" posture that they're showing on "The Crown."  It gets to the point where it's distracting from whatever else is happening in the scene.

THANK YOU for checking this out. I didn't remember seeing him IRL pictures or videos with that awful hunched posture either, and by the end of this season it was also distracting as hell to me. 

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2 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

THANK YOU for checking this out. I didn't remember seeing him IRL pictures or videos with that awful hunched posture either, and by the end of this season it was also distracting as hell to me. 

I'll have to look for it when I'm watching again.  From recall, it seemed mostly when he was around his mother, or sulking about Diana.  ???

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6 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

THAT was the best moment in that entertaining breakfast scene. First, Phillip’s crack about why the Queen never danced like that for him. (Meanwhile, I’m imagining Olivia Coleman in her frumpy Queen garb jumping around on stage.) Then she shoots back with the “ballerina” comment. Never a dull moment with Phillip.

I loved all of that!  That back and forth was brilliant.

I will admit though that I caught myself momentarily hoping Charles had died in the avalanche, after all, the kids had already been born.  Now THAT would have been an interesting twist.

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So if Diana loved Charles and Charles loved Camilla, who did Camilla love? I thought it was Charles! (and I'm of their age almost and should know this!)

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49 minutes ago, stcroix said:

So if Diana loved Charles and Charles loved Camilla, who did Camilla love? I thought it was Charles! (and I'm of their age almost and should know this!)

Her husband. Most of the focus is on Camilla being unsuitable but she also was in love with Andrew Parker-Bowles and chose to marry him long before Charles was ready to get married. 

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And her children. I guess they could have somehow gotten around the marriage thing, but I don't see anyone being okay with her bringing her then still underage children into the marriage with Charles. This naturally became less of an issue once they were grown up anyway.

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On 11/17/2020 at 7:50 AM, Dani said:

Her husband. Most of the focus is on Camilla being unsuitable but she also was in love with Andrew Parker-Bowles and chose to marry him long before Charles was ready to get married. 

Yes, but because her husband constantly cheated on her (as he had done during their dating), it's presumed that somewhere along the way she began to love Charles: he needed her and adored her for that and she felt good to be needed and adored by him. Plus sex, common hobbies and sense of humor.

The formal marriage according to the upper class style evidently suited to both Camilla and Andrew and it's to their great credit that they never quarreled before children like Charles and Diana did.     

Edited by Roseanna · Reason: correctling a letter
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37 minutes ago, swanpride said:

The gifts were still self-indulgent. They were about HER having a moment on stage, not about giving Charles something he would enjoy. Not that Charles gift was in any way better. The only positive thing I have to say about Diana's gift is that they required a little bit more effort than just picking up a book, but sadly all the effort mostly went into fulfilling one of her own fantasies. Basically if the gifts had been switched (if Diana had gifted Charles a rare book about history or plants or whatever and he had gifted her a stage appearance or an evening together at a musical or something like this) they would be both happy.

Excellent point and it was also proof that not only did they not understand one another, they really didn't make an effort to. 

I overall like the portrayal of Diana, it shows her suffering, but also shows she could be difficult and a bit manipulative when she wanted to. Also I can't blame her for gettin' some once her marriage to Charles broke down. She was a 19 year old virgin, she got knocked up in about 5 minutes with William and I can't (nor do I care to) imagine Charles was a dynamo in the sack. So she did her duty with the heir and the spare, he's in love with someone else, so why not? 

This season has rekindled my dislike for Charles but tempered my dislike for Camilla a little bit. 

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On 11/16/2020 at 7:20 AM, vibeology said:

I will say, I don't entirely believe the "revolving door" comment that was passed along from Margaret to Anne to Elizabeth.

Did anyone else cringe when Anne used the language "In and out and in and out" to describe to her MOTHER the logistics of Diana's relationships with various men?  That was a bit on the nose if you ask me.

 

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Ah, finally, a bit of Queen (the band)! And if I'm not wrong, the dancer who danced Uptown Girl with Diana was one of Freddie Mercury's friends, as well, and he appears in the Living on my Own video.

Philip liked 80s pop and we never knew!

The presents were terrible and I agree that it shows how mismatched they were. I think getting a video like that as a present is one of my biggest fears. 

 

Edited by Helena Dax · Reason: Grammar
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2 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Did anyone else cringe when Anne used the language "In and out and in and out" to describe to her MOTHER the logistics of Diana's relationships with various men?  That was a bit on the nose if you ask me.

Yeah, that was a bit much. But Peter Morgan is not subtle.

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8 hours ago, Lillith said:

This season has rekindled my dislike for Charles but tempered my dislike for Camilla a little bit. 

It's the opposite for me.

I mean, all along we've seen Charles grow up, unloved, sensitive, lost, inadequate, his only true ally bodyguards and uncle Dickie.  The school scenes alone make me have pity for him, no admiration, but definitely sympathy.  We know the reasons he's turned into the navel gazing self absorbed pathetic ninny he is.

Camilla on the other hand?  She absolutely does not have my sympathy (maybe she would if I knew she'd never had affection or love from her family, but I doubt that is even remotely true.)  From most accounts I've read, she's always been popular, many friends, and basically lived a pretty great life.  Her only fly in the ointment (or main one) seems to be that she is utterly in love with her husband, a man who cannot be faithful.

However, filling that gap of "being the only one" to someone is not fair, not when that other person is married.  It is even worse to hear them laugh about "the wife."  It's just disgusting to me.

Ugh, it's just so awful, to not just cheat, but cheat openly with most of his circle in on it, and everyone in the palace knowing.  Even as a middle-aged experienced woman, which obviously Diana was not?  It would crush me, especially knowing that everyone knew.  She didn't even get to cope with it all privately.  Fuck them both.

 

5 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Did anyone else cringe when Anne used the language "In and out and in and out" to describe to her MOTHER the logistics of Diana's relationships with various men?  That was a bit on the nose if you ask me.

 

I thought it was perfect for Anne, who never minces words.  I'm glad we got so much of her this season.  She's become the "Roger Sterling" of The Crown for me.

3 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Ah, finally, a bit of Queen (the band)! And if I'm not wrong, the dancer who danced Uptown Girl with Diana was one of Freddie Mercury's friends, as well, and he appears in the Living on my Own video.

Philip liked 80s pop and we never knew!

The presents were terrible and I agree that it shows how mismatched they were. I think getting a video like that as a present is one of my bigger fears. 

 

Ha!  

What DO you get a spoiled, self indulgent, future King that buys whatever he wants to buy whenever the mood strikes him?

I think if she had recorded it privately, just her, and a record player, and a video camera it might have been OK with Charles, especially with the explanation she gave, that it's easier for her to show how she feels that way.  I think her intent was something personal, that she put effort into making for him, but yikes.

Adding in all those other people involved was just cringe worthy though.  

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

Actually I get her point.  Her point is look at me, fall in love with me. I am younger and more beautiful with that cow you care about. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me and I understand her point.

Charles has checked out that marriage since before the wedding vows. I feel very sorry for Diana as she would have been happy if Charles threw her the occasional bone while boning Camilla in more of a discreet manor.  Charles was very open with his relationship with Camilla to the point he was rubbing it in Diana's face.  He could have made more of an effort and broke it off with Camilla.

I don't know if that was her point, perhap you are correct though.  

I agree that Charles only married her to have the future heirs, and because it was his duty.  However, IF Camilla had cut him off?  I think they might have had a chance.  It's difficult with such an age difference, but if Charles had made himself known to her, been open with her, helped guide her in the things that were important to him?  I think Diana would have adapted.  

Moving 15 minutes away from Camilla and spending most of his time there?  Killed any chance that marriage ever had though.

38 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m sure there are plenty of men that wouldn’t have minded the Uptown Girl dance. Okay it did upstage Charles, but Charles is also a needy immature man baby who got pissy about Diana being in the spotlight even when she wasn’t trying to upstage him, like on the Australia tour. Lots of other men would have been flattered and turned on by the dance.

But the Phantom performance? Yikes, that was extra. But she still didn’t deserve the mocking behind her back.

I think she was frequently mocked by that entire group, and the mustache men, as Philip called them.  I can't imagine that pain and embarrassment.  Or rather, I can't imagine staying in that world, duty to the crown or not.

Edited by Umbelina
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1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

But the Phantom performance? Yikes, that was extra. But she still didn’t deserve the mocking behind her back.

My Mom is the perfect person for who that performance should be for.  But my mother and Prince Charles are different people 😄

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17 minutes ago, saoirse said:

From my pov, the gifts that Diana gave to Charles were deep and from her heart

I agree.  Between 2 people who love each other, they would have been sweet.  And with a husband who had some self-confidence and a sense of humor, the dance would have been fun.  Charles' sibs had done much more stupid things for charity that had been aired on TV, i.e., A Royal Knockout.  In which

Quote

The contestants competed in ridiculous and somewhat humiliating games; for example, in one round, the players dressed up as giant vegetables and threw fake hams at each other.

 

I also did not like that in the meeting with the Queen, Diana is excoriated for having a lover, but Charles' having a mistress for the entirety of his marriage is not even mentioned. 

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1 minute ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Charles' having a mistress for the entirety of his marriage is not even mentioned. 

Camilla is mentioned, just not by name. The queen and Philip call her "her," "that woman," "you know who," etc. I don't think they approve of her, but Diana is the one in-house, as it were. They have some influence over her, but none with Camilla. I doubt the queen ever said a word to her until she absolutely had to.

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11 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Camilla is mentioned, just not by name.

Ok, I need to correct that:  There is no intimation that Charles needs to leave Camilla. 

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Ok, so in this episode I noticed once again, that part with Diana and the boys in the pool, Charles is sitting off to the side, watching and looking pained as usual. Yet the real life pictures from this, Charles is IN THE POOL with her and the kids, playing around.

So the show this season is so determined to demonize him (which I'm not denying he deserves, by the way), but they are actually leaving out ANY instances of him being a good dad or capable of showing any affection whatsoever to Diana, even in the early years of their marriage.

I just think including those parts would only help in making the painful stuff more painful and effective, in terms of drama. Diana's memories of their "good times" together were literally that one trip to Australia? That was the only time he was EVER nice to her? Why were they even on a ski trip together if they were living separate lives at that point? And why didn't we see any of it?

And why is he allowed to kiss Camilla onscreen, yet they never had him and Diana kiss once this season? 

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23 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Camilla is mentioned, just not by name. The queen and Philip call her "her," "that woman," "you know who," etc. I don't think they approve of her, but Diana is the one in-house, as it were. They have some influence over her, but none with Camilla. I doubt the queen ever said a word to her until she absolutely had to.

Irl the Queen made clear her disapproval quite early: she ceased to accept Camilla as a guest. 

"That woman" was also how Wallis Simpson was called.

On 11/17/2020 at 4:27 PM, greekmom said:

Actually I get her point.  Her point is look at me, fall in love with me. I am younger and more beautiful with that cow you care about.

Your interpretation is probably right, but knowing Charles Diana's point should have been the one she successfully did in Australia: "you are most gorgeous man in the room". Plus: "your speech was so good", "I really admire your hard work", "I am so sorry you don't get recognition you deserve", "you  really good with our sons" etc. 

But of course it was too late, not to speak of that they both longed for love and admiration but couldn't give it to each other.

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5 hours ago, ruby24 said:

So the show this season is so determined to demonize him (which I'm not denying he deserves, by the way), but they are actually leaving out ANY instances of him being a good dad or capable of showing any affection whatsoever to Diana, even in the early years of their marriage.

 

Its really a problem with the show that, when they only have so much time to tell a very complicated life story that shoves several years into a few episodes, we kind of get the cliff notes version that is supposed to tell one kind of narrative for the story. I understand that they have a LOT of stuff to get through here, and its not just the Charles and Diana Show, but I do wish that we could get a bit more. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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I dunno, the show spent years showing us the hell Charles went though as a child, and then they gave us Wales last year, to just drum it in more how much his mother hated him, and his father thought him a wet useless ninny.

For him to turn into this not only makes perfect sense, but also, there is background to why he is this way.

They are skipping fast through history, hitting a few high points, skipping other important, monumental things

Spoiler

like the wall coming down and Germany reunifying, and for a group of Royals that all all mostly German, that's a big skip!

So just giving us representational highs and lows of their relationship to this point fits right into the rest of the show.

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saoirse

Stick to discussion of the episode, please. Discussion or mention of future events is NOT ALLOWED in episode topics, including mention of individuals who have not yet appeared or events that occur in future decades. Posts will be removed; repeated violations may incur further sanctions.

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