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Door County Cherry

E01.08: After the Rain

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10 hours ago, Aliferously said:

In serious Regency novels, young ladies of a certain class did not dally about in the rain.

Rain caused chills and chills brought inevitable sickbeds and/or death.

Me, the whole time I was watching that scene.

Yeah, but I think she was safe dancing on what appeared to be a mild, even rather sunny day, steps away from shelter, warmth, and her own bed/warm bath/change of clothes.  😉

6 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Laundering of all of those gorgeous color-coordinated frocks would also be a much much bigger deal in the age of hand washing. Not that the women of this particular class would know much about that.

There's a whole cottage industry of fan fiction-style novels that prequel, sequel, or side- or paraquel Pride & Prejudice characters and their adjacents. One called Longbourn is from the view of the household help and includes more than a little grumbling about the laundry situation with five daughters out in society. The staff definitely have some opinions about Lizzie Bennet getting her hems and stockings muddy traipsing between Longbourn and Netherfield after a big rainstorm. 

Ha!  Love that!

I'm sure the Duke had plenty of servants to take care of Daphne's clothing, and she, as a Duchess, had many, many options of other things for her to wear.

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The Bridgertons, Featheringtons, et al all would have gone to church to see and be seen on major holidays only.  They would have also have been Church of England which was pretty bland back then.  The clergy were second or third sons of the aristocracy who took orders because they needed the salary.  The fire and brimstone was kept to a minimum.  There were some clergy who preached harsher sermons, but that was not the norm especially in London.  The story of Onan would not have been discussed anywhere near these ladies.

Yeah, must protect those virgins from knowing what happens on the wedding night.  I'm fairly sure many bible passages were completely forbidden in most church services.  

Edited by Umbelina
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I think going to church for the people in these stories was just... what you did.  I don't think that the really .... interesting stories of the bible were really discussed in church, and that people probably weren't really paying attention anyway.

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I just binged this series, the trailer made it seem like Gossip Girl in the Regency era. It still kind of is. But I enjoyed it. I did get annoyed with the characters not talking to each other. Simon should've just told Daphne his stupid reason for not wanting children. 

Are we supposed to assume that Pen is more worldly then she let's on if she is Lady W? 

If Pen really outed Marina out of her friendship with Colin she would've just told him, instead she choose to publicly humiliate them both in her gossip paper. That's either petty vindictiveness or her gossip paper is more important than her family and friends. 

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I wonder if this show would’ve been as popular if there wasn’t a pandemic and a real lack of new shows?

I thought the show was fine but 60 million viewers? Really?

It took several episodes to get into the story. One episode was essentially a series of sex scenes between a husband who is lying to his innocent wife.  And when she turns the tables he wants to leave her but everyone says they look so devoted? By the last ball they’d only been married a month.  Ridiculous to have so many problems in such a short time.  Romance novel or not.

There’s no way Pen would’ve been that well versed in society to turn out to be Whistledown.  I do think her intention was to save Colin at all costs.

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7 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

I wonder if this show would’ve been as popular if there wasn’t a pandemic and a real lack of new shows?

I thought the show was fine but 60 million viewers? Really?

It took several episodes to get into the story. One episode was essentially a series of sex scenes between a husband who is lying to his innocent wife.  And when she turns the tables he wants to leave her but everyone says they look so devoted? By the last ball they’d only been married a month.  Ridiculous to have so many problems in such a short time.  Romance novel or not.

There’s no way Pen would’ve been that well versed in society to turn out to be Whistledown.  I do think her intention was to save Colin at all costs.

This show was always going to be popular.  Romance has consistently been the highest performing genre. Romance readers have been waiting for a show like Bridgerton, a big budget fantasy.  Other romance series have been produced, but contemporary series like Virgin River just don't have the oomph to really draw in viewers.  The pandemic did bring in more casual viewers, but the core audience was already there.  

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1 hour ago, scenicbyway said:

I wonder if this show would’ve been as popular if there wasn’t a pandemic and a real lack of new shows?

As it has been mentioned, the romance genre is extremely popular and this is probably the first series based on contemporary regency romance books that I can think of as ever having been produced. So there was absolutely an audience for it.  A big audience.  Plus, it's Shondaland's first series for Netflix.  That's doesn't mean it'd be a guaranteed hit but it's enough to get eyeballs.

50 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Other romance series have been produced, but contemporary series like Virgin River just don't have the oomph to really draw in viewers.

Even a contemporary series based on sexual romance books is pretty new.  And Virgin River does well for Netflix as well.  It always trends high when it drops. It's not for me but others seem to continue to watch so far. 

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16 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

This show was always going to be popular.  Romance has consistently been the highest performing genre. Romance readers have been waiting for a show like Bridgerton, a big budget fantasy.  Other romance series have been produced, but contemporary series like Virgin River just don't have the oomph to really draw in viewers.  The pandemic did bring in more casual viewers, but the core audience was already there.  

Virgin River had the potential. It is a good performer for Netflix but nothing like Bridgerton.

The problem, imo, is that contemporary romance (for non-readers) is synonymous with Hallmark which has reduced the storytelling to a syrupy formula.  Virgin River leaned into that aesthetic a little too much,imo.  Which is a shame because the books are grittier than anything Hallmark would dream up.  I think the reason VR didn't get as much traction amongst romance readers is because it broke the cardinal rule of romance in that it let other things than the main couple really pull the attention focus.  And for people who read the books (like me) the decisions made to change for tv didn't feel in line with the spirit of the book, especially for the hero/heroine.  I bailed on that show very early the adaptation just didn't work for me and the VR books are some of my favorites.

For casual viewers, again it would attract people who would like Hallmark.    As someone on twitter put it, it has the '40+ age suburban white woman demographic on lock.'

What Bridgerton did right was that it really delivered on what it is like to read regency romance.  In Hist-Rom right now, Regency romances with the upper classes dominate and have for about 20-25 years.  It gave the glamor, the spectacle, the balls, the gowns and wisely chose a vehicle that would allow for a big ensemble.  And while it catered to the romance readers who are thirsty for it, it did even better by bringing in the casual viewer who wouldn;t necessarily watch a romance but who would watch a period costume drama/comedy.  And not only that, because of the multi-cult casting it snagged POC esp. WOC who might not have naturally given this the time of day.  Shonda Rhimes  knows her audience and better yet she knows that audience crosses a lot of demographic geography.

The next big test would be to deliver on a contemporary that can be disassociated from thinking that it is just another Hallmark type romance. 

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28 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Virgin River had the potential. It is a good performer for Netflix but nothing like Bridgerton.

The problem, imo, is that contemporary romance (for non-readers) is synonymous with Hallmark which has reduced the storytelling to a syrupy formula.  Virgin River leaned into that aesthetic a little too much,imo.  Which is a shame because the books are grittier than anything Hallmark would dream up.  I think the reason VR didn't get as much traction amongst romance readers is because it broke the cardinal rule of romance in that it let other things than the main couple really pull the attention focus.  And for people who read the books (like me) the decisions made to change for tv didn't feel in line with the spirit of the book, especially for the hero/heroine.  I bailed on that show very early the adaptation just didn't work for me and the VR books are some of my favorites.

For casual viewers, again it would attract people who would like Hallmark.    As someone on twitter put it, it has the '40+ age suburban white woman demographic on lock.'

What Bridgerton did right was that it really delivered on what it is like to read regency romance.  In Hist-Rom right now, Regency romances with the upper classes dominate and have for about 20-25 years.  It gave the glamor, the spectacle, the balls, the gowns and wisely chose a vehicle that would allow for a big ensemble.  And while it catered to the romance readers who are thirsty for it, it did even better by bringing in the casual viewer who wouldn;t necessarily watch a romance but who would watch a period costume drama/comedy.  And not only that, because of the multi-cult casting it snagged POC esp. WOC who might not have naturally given this the time of day.  Shonda Rhimes  knows her audience and better yet she knows that audience crosses a lot of demographic geography.

The next big test would be to deliver on a contemporary that can be disassociated from thinking that it is just another Hallmark type romance. 

Contemporary romance is not my thing.  I read either historical or paranormal because I want to escape.  I will venture into contemporaries if the story is more than a regular woman finding love in a small town.  I would love to see Shonda tackle Alyssa Cole's Reluctant Royals series.  I think the only way to produce contemporary romance without the Hallmark connection is to adapt properties that would never fly on Hallmark.  

I loved the romance Easter eggs sprinkled through the series.  Romance readers have opinions on how their heroes wear The Shirt on covers, and we see Simon and Antony rocking the rights looks.  I loved how they purposefully styled Simon with his shirt tucked in while unbuttoned, and Anthony is hard at work at his desk showing off his forearms.  Everyone involved with this production knew what romance readers want, and they delivered.  That level of care is rarely seen in productions geared towards women.  

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On 12/29/2020 at 2:16 PM, Auntie Anxiety said:

Marriage to George’s brother could even become one of happiness and/or contentment for Marina. It happens in arranged marriages all the time. If nothing else, the baby would be raised by George’s family and if Marina ended up wanting to leave to follow her own pursuits, she could leave the kid with the in-laws and know the baby was in good hands. 

They should have waited till the beginning of next season to reveal who Whistledown was. The audience would have loved thinking about the options while the show was on hiatus. On this site alone, there would be a lot of conjecture and interesting discussion.

Disagree with waiting. Revealing it at the end of the season made me reconsider what I had just been watching.  It even made me think about watching some of the episodes to look over at Penelope.  Also since Penelope was clearly in the books as the gossip girl I don't think there would be a lot of speculation.

Edited by Kira53 · Reason: spelling

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On 1/22/2021 at 12:09 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

This show was always going to be popular.  Romance has consistently been the highest performing genre. Romance readers have been waiting for a show like Bridgerton, a big budget fantasy.  Other romance series have been produced, but contemporary series like Virgin River just don't have the oomph to really draw in viewers.  The pandemic did bring in more casual viewers, but the core audience was already there.  

Agree with this. It's been years since I picked up a Julia Quinn book or similar type romance book, but as soon as I heard this had been optioned for Netflix, I had it on my mental radar. 

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Surprisingly, the biggest cliffhanger for me was who's inheriting Lord Featherington's estate. That's the number one thing I'll be tuning into next season for. I also hope Anthony's mum chews him out some more because I like watching him get dragged.

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I have to admit that the Featherington heir is the most interesting part for me as well.

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Am I the only one who thinks that Pen may not be the real Lady Whistleton?

Someone wrote that is is weird that it was said the modiste visited some family in France. And Marine discovered us the woman does not speak French.

Maybe the modiste was the original Lady W and Pen found out and then replaced her?

I mean, it's Shonda's show, she may have all sorts of ideas for the 2nd season

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11 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

Am I the only one who thinks that Pen may not be the real Lady Whistleton?

Someone wrote that is is weird that it was said the modiste visited some family in France. And Marine discovered us the woman does not speak French.

Maybe the modiste was the original Lady W and Pen found out and then replaced her?

I mean, it's Shonda's show, she may have all sorts of ideas for the 2nd season

Pen being Lady Whistledown is straight out of the books, there is no way that the showrunners would change that in season 2.  There are some things that will be different in any adaptation, but something that major is not one of them.  

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I don't like Pen being LW for reasons of logic, more than for reasons of character (though I think it really trashes her character as well).

Pen is a 17 year old society girl in her first season. Unless she's totally lying, she is innocent enough that she doesn't understand where babies come from. She slips up and asks her mother if she can "play" with her best friend. The writer of LW is a sophisticate comfortable with mild sexual innuendo and prone to witty aphorism. It just does not make sense for that prose to come from a sheltered teenager. That's aside from the stretch it would take for it to be believable that Penelope would be able to make consistent, in-person deliveries of her scandal-sheet on the sly. I also don't think she's nearly savvy enough to get even as much gossip as the average society woman--although on that score, I suppose, with the significant exception of her scoop on Marina, it isn't clear that she was actually providing new news so much as articulating what tons of people would already have been saying and speculating.

Marina remained to me extremely sympathetic throughout, even though it was obviously wrong for her to try to entrap Colin. Given the options available to her, it would have taken truly heroic heights of integrity for her not to go along with it. In the real world, by the way, I don't believe Philip would have married her--if he was decent, he would have settled a respectable income on her, but he wouldn't have married a  fallen woman. As it is, it is a pretty hopeful ending for her, even if she can't immediately see it through her grief.

Re: race - I kind of wish they'd just left out the explanation, but the question of what would have happened if Queen Charlotte actually had been a visibly black woman is actually pretty fascinating (the theory that suggests she was biracial is junk, by the way). Regency England was obviously not a model of egalitarianism, but it was not the antebellum American South either. There are a number of recorded instances of black Britons of the era--many of the freed slaves--who actually did get a relatively high degree of acceptance in high society circles. They certainly wouldn't have been seen as viable marriage partners for members of the ton, but it wouldn't have been wildly taboo for them to have been at a fancy party like some of the ones we see in Bridgerton, and most notable black Britons of the period (unsurprisingly, given their small numbers) married interracially. Phillis Wheatley, the American slave-poet, was patronized by a Countess and supposedly had an invitation to appear before King George. Lord Mansfield, a noted judge who set the groundwork for banning slavery in England, raised his half-black great-niece Dido Belle, and while she does not seem to have been a full equal in his household, evidence suggests that she was largely treated as a member of the family. She married a white steward, and had sons who went into business and the army. Julius Soubise was a slave of a Duchess who, after being freed, rose to become riding and fencing master (and, possibly, the Duchess's lover); he wound up becoming a rake and dandy.

So I think the question of what would have happened in that kind of society if the King had married interracially is really interesting. A realistic version of it likely would have seen a still racially-divided society in which the new black nobility were regarded with suspicion and were not seen as remotely equal marriage prospects, but in which blackness had become more of a deficit than a wholly disqualifying factor. Like, maybe someone like Simon wouldn't be thought of as a match for Daphne, but would be seen as a suitable prospect for the Fetheringtons after they lose their money. It would have been a gradual climb--and probably would have been complicated by the fact that there were just so few black people in England. You might have wound up with an initial generation of newly created black nobility who virtually all married not totally-ideal white spouses, and within a few generations wound up with white-passing descendants.

Edited by companionenvy
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Yeah, IMO they wrote themselves into real trouble with Pen and I don't think they will deliver any kind of satisfying follow-up. Like with all serious topics touched on in the series, it became a mess because they want the scandal but not the in-depth exploration of what the events they present might actually mean. The logistics of Pen being Lady W are pretty out there and the sheer viciousness of what she does is such a contrast to her everyday persona as to hint at sociopathy. But IMO that is done by accident, they just didn't think about what they were doing, as always. I'm not even talking about Marina, though that was brutal. But some sort of teenage lack of foresight, panic and anger can explain that one. But what have the Bridgertons ever done to her? She's basically trying to ruin Daphne's life for no reason? And her friendship with Eloise also gets tainted by Pen being Lady W: Is she just using Eloise for gossip and scoop on the Bridgertons so she can later stab them in the back (as done with Daphne...)?

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On 1/29/2021 at 4:50 AM, companionenvy said:

I don't like Pen being LW for reasons of logic, more than for reasons of character (though I think it really trashes her character as well).

I don't like it, because of the nature of the show. Despite such a big deal having been made of Eloise's search for Whistledown, I didn't think they'd actually reveal who it was. I thought she was just the narrator. So what are they going to do next season? Is Nicola Coughlin going to do the voiceover? What's the point of even continuing with the narration if the viewer knows it's Penelope? Are they getting rid of it, after making Whistledown part of the show's marketing?

I don't know how things played out in the books, but the show seems to have painted itself into a corner by revealing it to be Penelope.

On 1/29/2021 at 11:48 AM, katha said:

And her friendship with Eloise also gets tainted by Pen being Lady W: Is she just using Eloise for gossip and scoop on the Bridgertons so she can later stab them in the back (as done with Daphne...)?

Not to mention lying directly to Eloise's face with the "I don't want to live a life like Lady Whistledown" business.

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On 1/18/2021 at 9:51 AM, SoWindsor said:

I watched this not expecting to like it and aside from a few moments, I didn’t like it. I didn’t care for another of the characters or actors except for Lady Featherton — I recall thinking the actress was also wonderful in Rome.

Just didn’t work for me but I’m extremely picky with TV shows and don’t like much of anything.

 

I liked and am quoting this for its extreme honesty and bracing brevity. 🙂

(FWIW I enjoyed the show muchly, despite some misgivings.)

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9 hours ago, Penman61 said:

I liked and am quoting this for its extreme honesty and bracing brevity. 🙂

(FWIW I enjoyed the show muchly, despite some misgivings.)

Me too.   I  had to decide during the first episode to accept this show despite the anachronisms  and the lack of realism.  A lot of it is naughty and entertaining fantasy.  Every once in a while the show would get my hackles up,  mostly to do with the sexual double standard between the male and female characters.

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15 hours ago, magdalene said:

Me too.   I  had to decide during the first episode to accept this show despite the anachronisms  and the lack of realism.  A lot of it is naughty and entertaining fantasy.  Every once in a while the show would get my hackles up,  mostly to do with the sexual double standard between the male and female characters.

My sister watched one episode and hated it. I forced two of my best friends (who always tell me what manly men they are while my eyes roll) to watch it and they both binged it in one weekend. If it weren't for the pandemic, I'm sure I'd have been a lot pickier about the costumes and such. But I also watch a lot of Sci Fi TV, so I'm able to suspend my disbelief. 

It was naughty and fun and soapy and delightful. It didn't make me think too hard. It didn't overwhelm me with angst. It didn't cause me suspense anxiety. It didn't make cringe in second hand embarrassment.

It was the perfect pandemic binge for me. 

But yeah, it was damn flawed.  

Edited by BlackberryJam · Reason: Forgot the negative "didn't".
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I wasn’t wowed by this but it was pretty to watch. I wasn’t familiar with the book series so I’m wasn’t part of the fan base coming into this. Some of the acting was notable and I’ve always been a fan of Polly Walker so I was pleasantly surprised to find her in this. 
The girl playing Daphne was laughable, too bad, because Simon was very much a presence. It took me out of the moment and made the sex scenes anything but hot to me. 
It did make me think about what constitutes rape in a way I hadn’t thought of before, just reading the discussion on that in an earlier episode thread, but everything is all squared away in the end when he willingly gave her his seed and out pops a baby and all is right in the world. 
I’d probably get around to watching a second season though if it gets renewed, but I’m largely ambivalent and surprised I didn’t like this more since I love the genre. 

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5 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I wasn’t wowed by this but it was pretty to watch. I wasn’t familiar with the book series so I’m wasn’t part of the fan base coming into this. Some of the acting was notable and I’ve always been a fan of Polly Walker so I was pleasantly surprised to find her in this. 
The girl playing Daphne was laughable, too bad, because Simon was very much a presence. It took me out of the moment and made the sex scenes anything but hot to me. 
It did make me think about what constitutes rape in a way I hadn’t thought of before, just reading the discussion on that in an earlier episode thread, but everything is all squared away in the end when he willingly gave her his seed and out pops a baby and all is right in the world. 
I’d probably get around to watching a second season though if it gets renewed, but I’m largely ambivalent and surprised I didn’t like this more since I love the genre. 

If you liked this, you will love season 2. It will be based on the second book of the book series, which is universally acknowledged to be the best one.

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8 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I wasn’t wowed by this but it was pretty to watch. I wasn’t familiar with the book series so I’m wasn’t part of the fan base coming into this. Some of the acting was notable and I’ve always been a fan of Polly Walker so I was pleasantly surprised to find her in this. 
The girl playing Daphne was laughable, too bad, because Simon was very much a presence. It took me out of the moment and made the sex scenes anything but hot to me. 
It did make me think about what constitutes rape in a way I hadn’t thought of before, just reading the discussion on that in an earlier episode thread, but everything is all squared away in the end when he willingly gave her his seed and out pops a baby and all is right in the world. 
I’d probably get around to watching a second season though if it gets renewed, but I’m largely ambivalent and surprised I didn’t like this more since I love the genre. 

It's been renewed already. Filming should start in the spring if I recall correctly. 

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

If you liked this, you will love season 2. It will be based on the second book of the book series, which is universally acknowledged to be the best one.

Well, tthe source material is definitely better for season 2, so my hopes are high. 

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On 1/29/2021 at 6:50 AM, companionenvy said:

Re: race - I kind of wish they'd just left out the explanation, but the question of what would have happened if Queen Charlotte actually had been a visibly black woman is actually pretty fascinating (the theory that suggests she was biracial is junk, by the way). Regency England was obviously not a model of egalitarianism, but it was not the antebellum American South either. There are a number of recorded instances of black Britons of the era--many of the freed slaves--who actually did get a relatively high degree of acceptance in high society circles. They certainly wouldn't have been seen as viable marriage partners for members of the ton, but it wouldn't have been wildly taboo for them to have been at a fancy party like some of the ones we see in Bridgerton, and most notable black Britons of the period (unsurprisingly, given their small numbers) married interracially. Phillis Wheatley, the American slave-poet, was patronized by a Countess and supposedly had an invitation to appear before King George. Lord Mansfield, a noted judge who set the groundwork for banning slavery in England, raised his half-black great-niece Dido Belle, and while she does not seem to have been a full equal in his household, evidence suggests that she was largely treated as a member of the family. She married a white steward, and had sons who went into business and the army. Julius Soubise was a slave of a Duchess who, after being freed, rose to become riding and fencing master (and, possibly, the Duchess's lover); he wound up becoming a rake and dandy.

So I think the question of what would have happened in that kind of society if the King had married interracially is really interesting. A realistic version of it likely would have seen a still racially-divided society in which the new black nobility were regarded with suspicion and were not seen as remotely equal marriage prospects, but in which blackness had become more of a deficit than a wholly disqualifying factor. Like, maybe someone like Simon wouldn't be thought of as a match for Daphne, but would be seen as a suitable prospect for the Fetheringtons after they lose their money. It would have been a gradual climb--and probably would have been complicated by the fact that there were just so few black people in England. You might have wound up with an initial generation of newly created black nobility who virtually all married not totally-ideal white spouses, and within a few generations wound up with white-passing descendants.

You also could've seen the politics between black nobles and black commoners marrying each other. Black nobles interested in keeping with own community but also interested in advancing in English society. There was a black community in London at the time, it was small but it existed and they had their own neighborhood, social circle, rituals etc.

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Sorry did not have a chance to read the other comments yet, but I have to get my feelings out here 😅

I forced myself to watch this, because I wanted to see what the hype was about.  To me, this show did not get even remotely good until episodes 6/7/8, and I think that is too far into a series to get a story going.  As for the sex scenes, again, to me, nothing really happened until episode 6, but the reason I say the show got good in episode 6 is because i feel the other storylines really started taking off and the sex scenes were 50 shades of grey light to me...I was not impressed 😑

 

I found Daphne and the Duke to be the worst and most boring couple, but found all the other storylines good and interesting. 

 

As for who the real Lady Whistledown was, at first I thought it was her, than thought, no, it couldn't be, because she would not do that to her family and Colin, then.....what do you know!

 

And it is for that reason alone I cannot get behind her and Colin as a couple and I hope it does not happen!!! I actually think all of her articles were quite toxic. 

 

I will probably watch season 2 one episode at time like i did this 😄

Edited by snickers
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On 12/27/2020 at 2:21 PM, BlackberryJam said:
Spoiler

Marina delivered the twins maybe a month or so after she was exposed.

 

 

Spoiler

I missed her giving birth to any babies this season and I've watched it twice?

  Is this a book spoiler or speculation?

Edited by Callietwo · Reason: put spoiler tags for anyone who missed that.

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1 hour ago, Callietwo said:

I missed her giving birth to any babies this season and I've watched it twice?  Is this a book spoiler or speculation?

She didn't give birth on the show. It's I guess partly a book spoiler. 

Spoiler

She has twins in the books, but there is no scandal. 

 

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6 hours ago, bijoux said:
Spoiler

She didn't give birth on the show.

It's I guess partly a book spoiler. 

  Reveal spoiler

She has twins in the books, but there is no scandal. 

 

ah.  Well, thanks.  I'd have preferred to remain unspoiled but I guess with the books having been out for so long, it was bound to happen.  

Edited by Callietwo

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No way is Pen Lady Whistledown. I really thought it would turn out to be Madame Delacroix, & I'm still not convinced it's not.

I'm most curious about how/why Lord Featherington died, I'm assuming those two men had something to do with it, did they murder him? What happened to all the money?

I feel bad for Marina, but how many bad choices can one girl make? She's in the position she's in because of what she decided to do, not because of anybody else's choices.

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I just finished the season, and man oh man do I hate the "Penelope is Lady Whistledown" revelation.

It made so much sense for it to be Madame Delacroix. When they gave us the impression that she was Lady W, I kicked myself for not seeing it sooner. There were so many ways that it added up!

She outed Marina's pregnancy after Marina blackmailed her (by threatening to reveal that she wasn't really French). She fitted Marina for dresses, so she could have known about her pregnancy early on. Her shop was a place where the women came to gossip, so she could pick up plenty of secrets that way. And as a businesswoman, she had the means to publish.

Penelope, on the other hand, makes no sense.

Also, Madame D's reaction when Eloise confronted her seems pretty dumb now. She gave Eloise the impression that she was Lady W, and that she would only write nice things about the Bridgertons from now on. So what happens if Lady Whistledown doesn't do that? In that case Eloise would probably tell the world that Madame D is Lady W out of spite, and it would be hard for Madame D to prove that she isn't.

In the debate over whether Marina or Penelope is the jerk, I think the answer is both. Penelope was vicious to Daphne in her writing just for the sake of it. And Marina was ice cold in her machinations.

I get why she would try to dupe Colin into marrying her. Her back was against the wall, and someone in her condition would probably do whatever they had to do. But I really would have liked it if she told Penelope, "I know what I'm doing to Colin is horrible, but I have no other choice!"

But she was too busy being brutal to Penelope to say that. A decent person would have gently explained to Pen that Colin saw her more as a sister than a lover, instead of tearing out her heart and spitting on it.

And I don't think she gets the excuse of "doing whatever she can to protect herself and her child." That old man would have offered that protection, and she turned up her nose at him. She wanted someone who she was romantically into, and she considered that more important than the security of her child. She only settled for Phillip when all other offers were gone.

Out of the four young women we really got to know (Daphne, Marina, Eloise and Penelope), Eloise is the only one who I actually like at this point.

Also, the "they say your husband has died!" thing with Lady F makes me think he actually didn't.

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25 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I just finished the season, and man oh man do I hate the "Penelope is Lady Whistledown" revelation.

I don't think she is. They showed her in a carriage going somewhere holding a piece of paper with Lady Whistledown writing on it. My guess is she found the piece of paper, figured out who wrote it, & now she's going to confront that person. No way does Penelope have the knowledge to write the gossip sheet, also, how would she know how to get it printed, distributed, & of course, pay for it? 

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Marina is awful. I don't care if in the moment Marina thought she was no longer pregnant- all that she went to and the girl was STILL trying to hold out for a romantic love match? It was like she had learned nothing at all. Come on. I could not stand her at all.

I really liked the break-up scene with Anthony and Selina. 

I really wonder if they're going to have Bennedict "experiment" with his sexuality. That could be pretty cool. Bisexuality is something that shows don't like to depict, especially when it's men so therefore can't be looked at through the straight male gaze.

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On 12/27/2020 at 4:58 AM, bijoux said:

I spend nearly the entire season learning to tell Anthony, Benedict and Colin apart and then they cast Phillip as a long lost Bridgerton? You're killing me, show. 

I can see what you're saying but I didn't really have trouble with him though, because Phillip doesn't share any scenes with the Bridgerton brothers and he doesn't have their jocular mannerisms. His skin tone is also different.

It'd be funny and soapy as hell if he did turn out to be a lost Bridgerton, though. I don't think they can do that though because according to the book cannon 

Spoiler

Phillip and Eloise are supposed to end up together. Kind of surprises me though because I'm reading Eloise as being asexual. Maybe Phillip will also turn out to be asexual and they have an ace relationship? 

8 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

She is a flawed character, whom certain people identify with and/or sympathize with. Are you as surprised that Daphne has fans and people rooting for her after raping her husband? If you don't like a certain character, that's fine, and feel free to express how or why, but don't be condescending or mocking towards fans who do. 

Duly noted and my post has been amended. 

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Late to the party since I just finished the last episode.

I personally think the writers/directors or whatever fast forwarded too much in the last episode.  There were so many instances for more character development and some insight into the couple's growth that could have taken place during those 9 months.  

Did I miss a reaction to Simon learning she was pregnant?   That would have been exciting.  

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This is supposed to be in the middle of the Napoleonic Wars; how is Colin going on a tour of Europe in the middle of all this???

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There was a break in the middle, before Napoleon broke out and the lead up to Waterloo.  I think that this takes place in that window.

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On 1/22/2021 at 12:09 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

This show was always going to be popular.  Romance has consistently been the highest performing genre. Romance readers have been waiting for a show like Bridgerton, a big budget fantasy.  Other romance series have been produced, but contemporary series like Virgin River just don't have the oomph to really draw in viewers.  The pandemic did bring in more casual viewers, but the core audience was already there.  

On top of this look at how well other historical drama have done recently.  People like this genre.  a lot.   From Bridgerton to Downton Abbey, the Tudors...Victoria, people are hungry for it. 

I'm an anglophile and search for documentaries and movies to watch constantly.  I've watched the entire "Monarchy" documentary by David Starky several times.  I, even being the nerd I am, can let go of the anachronisms, and rewriting of history (Thomas on Downton...I feel horrible for gays of the time, but there is no way the Earl would've continued his employment; the colorblind casting on Bridgerton...I wish it would've really been that way!) because it really is the BEST escapism.  I hope they catch on.  

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I finally finished this and I have to say I really enjoyed this series and can't wait for S2.

I guess I'm a sap because I didn't mind the trope of Daphne and Simon having a child at the end and I appreciated the juxtaposition of her giving birth vs Simon's birth in one of the flashbacks.

I am laughing at the calling out of their quickies, anytime/anywhere. I find them quite steamy together, Simon especially, but yes, I feel that as amazing as sex-on-a-stick Simon is in bed, for newcomer to sex Daphne, the reality is likely that he's jack-hammering away and she's still a good 15 exits from getting off. But I digress. They are hot enough to get away with it so I'll handwave the quickness/locales.

I am neither Team Marina or Team Pen. I still like them both. In the end, neither of them ended up with the nice enough but honestly kind of bland for all the squabbling over him Colin. I also think it was a bit of a letdown to learn Lady Whistledown's identity already. That secret should have had a lot more beats before we (the audience) were let in on it.

I'll be interested to see Anthony's story, although could I ask that his mutton chops be missing from it? Although that did help me tell him apart from his other brothers. 

I also liked seeing more shades of Lady Portia. It helps that I love Polly Walker and I'll occasionally sees remnants of Atia (her character from HBO's Rome) come out in Portia.

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1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

I am laughing at the calling out of their quickies, anytime/anywhere. I find them quite steamy together, Simon especially, but yes, I feel that as amazing as sex-on-a-stick Simon is in bed, for newcomer to sex Daphne, the reality is likely that he's jack-hammering away and she's still a good 15 exits from getting off.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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Just watched this and I loved it.  Unlike some, I thought Daphne and the Duke were wonderful together. But Penelope as the town crier?  That I can not buy.  Young ladies would not have had much if any money, even if her family were not broke. She hardly seems sophisticated enough to pull off the logistics of writing it and getting it printed if she did have money, nor be out and about enough to have info about everyone in society.  Is the fact that her shortened name is "Pen" supposed to be enough to make her the writer?  Not buying it!!!

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44 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

Just watched this and I loved it.  Unlike some, I thought Daphne and the Duke were wonderful together. But Penelope as the town crier?  That I can not buy.  Young ladies would not have had much if any money, even if her family were not broke. She hardly seems sophisticated enough to pull off the logistics of writing it and getting it printed if she did have money, nor be out and about enough to have info about everyone in society.  Is the fact that her shortened name is "Pen" supposed to be enough to make her the writer?  Not buying it!!!

There are very good explanations to all of that.

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On 7/28/2021 at 1:21 PM, Harvey said:

There are very good explanations to all of that.

I'm sure my heart will thrill to learn them. I slogged through the Lady W thread and did not find all my questions answered.  Am I to read all the books? I think not!

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10 hours ago, MBayGal said:

I'm sure my heart will thrill to learn them. I slogged through the Lady W thread and did not find all my questions answered.  Am I to read all the books? I think not!

You wouldn't have to read all the books to get the answers you are looking for. Only the one in which Lady Whistledown is revealed (book 4, Romancing Mr Bridgerton, if I recall right?) - and not even all of that book, either. Penelope's secret, how it came about and how she managed it, is really only dealt with in the second half of the book.

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14 hours ago, Llywela said:

You wouldn't have to read all the books to get the answers you are looking for. Only the one in which Lady Whistledown is revealed (book 4, Romancing Mr Bridgerton, if I recall right?) - and not even all of that book, either. Penelope's secret, how it came about and how she managed it, is really only dealt with in the second half of the book.

Thank you!!! I will look for that at the library or a used book store.  But a TV watcher should not have to read books to make sense of an incomprehensible season finale.  Blaming Shonda here! 

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I expect more explanations will be offered later on. Shonda produces seasonal TV so a cliffhanger of sorts is right up her alley.

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9 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Thank you!!! I will look for that at the library or a used book store.  But a TV watcher should not have to read books to make sense of an incomprehensible season finale.  Blaming Shonda here! 

You don't have to read ahead, though. The show will undoubtedly offer explanations further down the line. The novels don't explain Pen's secret until the second half of book four! The show has unveiled Lady W as a teaser for what lies ahead. You aren't meant to understand it yet! It's a feature, not a bug.

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11 hours ago, Llywela said:

You don't have to read ahead, though. The show will undoubtedly offer explanations further down the line. The novels don't explain Pen's secret until the second half of book four! The show has unveiled Lady W as a teaser for what lies ahead. You aren't meant to understand it yet! It's a feature, not a bug.

Is Pen exposed as Lady W at the end of book 1 and her methods not exposed until book 4?  I would expect that such a cliffhanger -- totally incomprehensible plot point is more accurate -- would follow immediately in the next book or  season. If Anthony's story (book 2?) anchors the next season, Pen is not a major part of that, right? 

I'm familiar with Shonda, having watched all of Scandal and a few seasons of How to Get away with Murder.  I only recently paid attention to the fact that this was from Shonda.

I assume the reason Quinn named her Penelope was so she could be called Pen=Writer.

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No, Lady Whistledown's identity od revealed im book 4. But the show doesn't follow everything from the books, so I'd ne shocked uf this isn't addressed im some manmer on the next season.

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Anthony looked absolutely gorgeous and sort of villainous as he stood in the dark talking to Sienna, when she was breaking up with him. Meow. 

That was a fun season! 

I was guessing who whistledown was! I thought it was Pen or Eloise herself.  

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Door County Cherry

Please read the rules re: book talk.  It really doesn't belong in episode threads as any specifics about future stories or changes are considered show spoilers, book spoilers or both. 

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