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Door County Cherry

E01.08: After the Rain

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Well enough finale.. Interested to see what a season 2 would entail... One thing I wouldn't want is too much drama tween our main couple.. I'm good with arguments and such but nothing along the lines of cheating... Also... Penelope is a scumbag... She ruined Marisa.. And for what... Marisa was right... That her crush on Colin was foolish.. And she almost ruined her family... But I guess she doesnt care.. I do hope her be is discovered by some ppl next season.. Mainly Marisa.. Colin... And Eloise... Too many more and how would the show go on... Also.. Does Ms. Delacroix know that Pen is Whistledown? 

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Man, women's choices back then were horrible if they found themselves unmarried and in the family way, weren't they? Pray the man does right by them or dupe some other unsuspecting man into marrying you before the baby is born. I don't really blame Marina for trying it, but I also don't blame Penelope for revealing it. Colin didn't deserve to be duped like that. If George was such a good guy as we were ultimately told, he should have married Marina before he left for war since he'd compromised her.

I sincerely hope we get more because I am more interested in almost all the "side" characters at the moment and would like to see their stories. I'm assuming Anthony will be next based on his pronouncement at the end.

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I'm so glad that the season ended with Simon and Daphne on a happy note with their baby. Those two managed to be so many things to each other in just 8 episodes they were a rollercoaster ride. They both grew and they did it together.

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Rarely do I enjoy a show more than a book but I have to say this was better and I loved the book. They really kept to the book theme other than the Marissa part. Eloise and Hyacinth are still my favorites as secondary characters I did not actually love their books as much. 
 

All I know is this better go through at least til Colin’s book or I will be pissed off. It was so good I will watch it again!

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9 hours ago, UnoAgain said:

One thing I wouldn't want is too much drama tween our main couple.. I'm good with arguments and such but nothing along the lines of cheating

I was surprised we got an epilogue with them.  From the few romance books within one series that I've read, the main couple of one book might make a cameo or appear in a scene or two in another couple's book but they pretty much disappear.

I thought the show might skip the jump forward "now they have kids and live happily ever after" type epilogue and make that a part of their journey in subsequent seasons. Unless they mess up their happily ever after, I don't see much room for them.  Honestly, while there are some characters I'd want to keep even if they were married off, I don't think Daphne and Simon would necessarily make that list. 

I hope we get to see Marina in a potential second season.  I think her character was one of the best of the series from her sad situation, disillusionment, her manipulation because of her desperate circumstances to a potential solution, she was so good to watch.  I'd love for her to fall in love with her husband but I suspect her conversation with Lady Featherington about living without love isn't a good sign.

Does anyone know why those guys killed Lord Featherington?  Poor Ben Miller.  He spent most of the season sitting around and reading newspapers only for his character to have a short moment of triumph before getting killed off.

I'm kind of appalled at what they  had Penelope do.  I get why she'd want to let Colin know but publishing the details to ruin Marina was unforgiveable.  It made me sad because I liked her but she made a fool of two people she claimed to care about.

Overall, it was a fun show.  It was beautiful to look at.  I liked most of the characters even though the lead couple left me cold.  Here's to better love stories in the future.  

One thing I do wish they'd do is cut down on the run time.  Some of the slowness of the show could be improved by shortening some scenes or cutting some scenes.  

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6 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I was surprised we got an epilogue with them.  From the few romance books within one series that I've read, the main couple of one book might make a cameo or appear in a scene or two in another couple's book but they pretty much disappear.

I thought the show might skip the jump forward "now they have kids and live happily ever after" type epilogue and make that a part of their journey in subsequent seasons. Unless they mess up their happily ever after, I don't see much room for them.  Honestly, while there are some characters I'd want to keep even if they were married off, I don't think Daphne and Simon would necessarily make that list. 

I hope we get to see Marina in a potential second season.  I think her character was one of the best of the series from her sad situation, disillusionment, her manipulation because of her desperate circumstances to a potential solution, she was so good to watch.  I'd love for her to fall in love with her husband but I suspect her conversation with Lady Featherington about living without love isn't a good sign.

Does anyone know why those guys killed Lord Featherington?  Poor Ben Miller.  He spent most of the season sitting around and reading newspapers only for his character to have a short moment of triumph before getting killed off.

I'm kind of appalled at what they  had Penelope do.  I get why she'd want to let Colin know but publishing the details to ruin Marina was unforgiveable.  It made me sad because I liked her but she made a fool of two people she claimed to care about.

Overall, it was a fun show.  It was beautiful to look at.  I liked most of the characters even though the lead couple left me cold.  Here's to better love stories in the future.  

One thing I do wish they'd do is cut down on the run time.  Some of the slowness of the show could be improved by shortening some scenes or cutting some scenes.  

Both Daphne and Simon are in the other books and in a couple of parts still a main part of the plot twists so we will see the hot Duke still for sure.  If the cut

Spoiler

"The Mallet of Death" scene

in the next series I will scream

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I read all of the books earlier this year and liked what they did with the show.  It was definitely a good finale. I wonder if season 2 will make up the second book. 

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Penelope tried to talk to Colin, but he wouldn’t listen.  She tried to dissuade Marina, but no go there either. Her decision to publish in Whistledown saved Colin, but she destroyed her own prospects, and that of her sisters, in the process. And Penelope in this series is what? 17? 19? At most? She and Eloise aren’t the same age, but Eloise is holding back on coming out. 

I’m torn on Marina because I think the writing for her veered wildly between shrewd and naive, depending on what was wanted from the scene. Tricking Colin was a terrible, terrible thing to do, especially once she knew her one friend in the house cared for him, although she idiotically never sussed out just how much. At the same time, she had pretty much zero choices. Actually, Rutledge might have been a choice if she could have poisoned him or smothered him in his sleep. 

 

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7 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I’m torn on Marina because I think the writing for her veered wildly between shrewd and naive, depending on what was wanted from the scene. Tricking Colin was a terrible, terrible thing to do, especially once she knew her one friend in the house cared for him, although she idiotically never sussed out just how much. At the same time, she had pretty much zero choices. Actually, Rutledge might have been a choice if she could have poisoned him or smothered him in his sleep. 

Tricking him is bad in 2020, but in 1813, I can see why Marina did it.  What choice did she have? 

Penelope was an awful, awful person. Penelope was a scumbag because she supposedly liked Marina, and then outed her.  Some fucking friend.  She's one of those people who hurts others because her own life is crap.  Scumbag is right. 

What was that final shot about?  Seeing the bee in the window?  Did Simon inherit the Featherton estate?

Edited by Neurochick
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1 hour ago, ouinason said:

I don't understand the anger at Penelope.  She tried being subtle, she tried flat out telling Marina not to do it.  The only thing she could have done differently was to flat out tell Colin that Marina was pregnant.  She should have probably done that, but I think she was afraid to.

Yeah.. She could done that.. She also could done nothing... She was sprung on Colin from jump and he was subsequently sprung on Marina... Either way she chose to humiliate and destroy Marina.. And put her fam in a terrible spot... So yeah anger

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2 minutes ago, UnoAgain said:

Yeah.. She could done that.. She also could done nothing... She was sprung on Colin from jump and he was subsequently sprung on Marina... Either way she chose to humiliate and destroy Marina.. And put her fam in a terrible spot... So yeah anger

I agree. Anger.  She stabbed Marina in the back, all for Colin?  Even a blind man could see that Colin only saw her as a little sister.  Talk about romantic delusions. 

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2 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I agree. Anger.  She stabbed Marina in the back, all for Colin?  Even a blind man could see that Colin only saw her as a little sister.  Talk about romantic delusions. 

Not to mention having her "best friend" run around like a chicken with her head cut off searching for her... Eloise coulda been killed for tipping off whistledown if the queen found out and felt like it... Eloise was on a mission to help restore her family name.. Smiling in ppls faces... Sharing secrets... Nah I can't co-sign any of that... She woulda gladly ruined Daphne had she got the chance to break the garden scoop... Yet its Daphne who helps her fam back into society by extending the olive branch... 

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2 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Wait a minute. Marina is going to snow a perfectly nice guy and saddle him in a marriage when she doesn’t love him and foist a child that isn’t his off on him, and Penelope is a terrible, terrible person for blowing the whistle? What the everliving mother of fuck?

Penelope isn’t a freaking saint, but Marina totally sucked. The ONLY innocent in that situation is Colin. And good god, do I hate having to defend a regency era man in this situation. 

Yes outta everyone Colin at least initially woulda been the biggest loser... But step-parents exist.. And some are even better than bio parents... Marina and Colin got on... She was at the  very least  committing to being a good wife.. And that's before she woulda found out George was dead... Pen coulda put her foot down to marina and threatened to tell Colin... Hell she coulda told Colin... Instead she str8 up lied to marina and said she would never do anything to besmirch the family name.. Or something to that effect... And promptly dropped a nuke... Damn near obliterating Marina and her Fam... Making a fool outta Colin.. And all for petty jealousy... So no ain't no comparing marina's bad and Pen's bad

2 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Penelope had absolutely no axe to grind against Daphne and wouldn’t have spilled those beans if she’d had them. That’s just an absolute misread of the character. 

I'm sorry.. Are you suggesting that lady whistledown.. Who as Daph and Simon were trying to get rush -married all but inferred that its " love or scandal" wouldn't have dropped that juicy gem... That feels like a misread of whistledown

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11 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Wait a minute. Marina is going to snow a perfectly nice guy and saddle him in a marriage when she doesn’t love him and foist a child that isn’t his off on him, and Penelope is a terrible, terrible person for blowing the whistle? What the everliving mother of fuck?

Penelope isn’t a freaking saint, but Marina totally sucked. The ONLY innocent in that situation is Colin. And good god, do I hate having to defend a regency era man in this situation. 

Yes, because Penelope was petty as fuck.   And I really detest people who say, "that's not right" but offer NO solution.  At one point Marina said to Penelope something like, "and what should I do, marry a horrible man?"  What the fuck was Marina supposed to do?  Penelope had zero answers. 

Marina was doing what she had to do.  It more than sucked to be a single, unwed mother in 1813, I doubt if any of us here would have liked being in Marina's shoes. 

Edited by Neurochick
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Yes, there is no comparison. Penelope told the truth to protect her friend, while Marina schemed to deceive him. I have some sympathy for both because they are girls in their late teens given no real education about men, but no way in hell is Marina the less culpable person in this situation. Her situation is terrible, but that doesn’t justify every action. 

Penelope did all but beg Marina to choose any man but Colin. Marina not only choose Colin, but then manipulated him into a quick marriage. Marina is the liar and the trickster here.

And her character veered wildly from sweet naïveté that George would come for her and shrewd actions to deceive first the entire Featherington family and then Colin. What is she? Clever or dumb and sweet? 

I wanted to like Marina much more than I did, but the character really suffered from crappy writing. 

Edited by BlackberryJam
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2 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Yes, because Penelope was petty as fuck. 

Marina was doing what she had to do.  It more than sucked to be a single, unwed mother in 1813, I doubt if any of us here would have liked being in Marina's shoes. 

Agreed.. Like for sure none if this was really ok to Colin... But considering many other possibilities... Raising a child from day one with a woman you really like and who seems to like you... more than a ton of these arranged marriages seems least odious... He set his sights on Marina immediately.. She enjoyed his company... It stands to reason if they got married they woulda been at the least decent to each other.. Maybe more... If he's to be believed had she just told him he woulda said yes anyway.. And as George was at the time considered a villiian and later found to be dead... Would marina have lingering feelings... Doubt it.. So instead of a content to possibly very happy family that woulda brought her brood and the bridgertons together.. Which wouldve elevated her fam...  and her sisters chances for better matches... She blew it all up screwing marina.. Her fam... The "pretty bridgertons" all because she was the "nice girl" and thought she deserved colin's D. 

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The show writing probably also explains why so many are assuming that Penelope did what she did out of jealousy instead of that she did it to protect her friend. In her book, as she talks about her long history with Colin, Penelope acknowledges over and over that she has never had any chance with him and had no expectation of reciprocated feelings. She isn't stupid, she expected him to end up with someone. Of course she felt pain seeing his attentions elsewhere, but she didn't have Lady Whistledown spill the beans in a naive attempt to have a chance with him. Like Blackberry Jam, I think ultimately her goal was to protect Colin. And like Marina made youthful mistakes, Penelope also did in how she ultimately resolved the situation.  

Edited by EyewatchTV211
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9 minutes ago, Plums said:

So I definitely think there was an aspect of immature vindictiveness in choosing to publish it. A part of her wanted to hurt Marina after Marina had hurt her, but she's not a bad person, so she felt terrible about it after the fact, and especially felt horrible after Marina apologized to her and she understood just how horrible Marina's situation is.  

I disagree.  Penelope was a bad person.  Apologizing didn't make it any better.  Besides, gossip kills. 

How did Marina hurt Penelope?  Penelope was a dumbass who couldn't even see that Colin thought of her as a little sister and not much else.

4 minutes ago, UnoAgain said:

and thought she deserved colin's D. 

And that's the gist of it!

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8 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Penelope told the truth to protect her friend,

No... She could've just told the truth to "her friend"... Hell she coulda told eloise... She was in love with Colin and wasn't gonna let Marina have him. Instead she lied to marina telling her she'd never tell( not that she had that obligation... She coulda told her to spill the beans or I will)  she's lady whistledown.. She's not some lost in the woods doe... Maybe she didn't think it would get so bad that Marina would try and abort the baby and hurt herself.. But based on all the voiceovers and her subsequent  talks with marina after the scheme was hatched... She knew what was up... Colin wasn't her friend.. He was the boy she loved who didn't look at her that way and marina was in the way... That's why she was all ready to proclaim her love and be swept away at Daph and Simon's party.. But again he didn't have time for her... This wasn't a move to save a friend.. It was a move to get rid of a rival and weaken her prey... Again real "nice guy" behavior... 

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Penelope really ruined Marina’s life.  Had she married Colin she would have at least been happy, but Pen wanted what she wanted, and didn’t get it either.  So much for girl power.

I would have loved it if Queen Charlotte found out who Lady W was.

IMO, Penelope was a bitch.  Sure her family treated her like shit, but that didn’t give her the right to shit on Marina and ruin her life, and the life of her unborn child.

Penelope was a spoiled, privileged brat who wanted what she wanted and didn’t care who she fucked over.

Hardly a “devastated girl.”

Edited by Neurochick
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4 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Marina had no right to deceive Colin, who was Penelope’s friend. Again, Penelope told the truth, in a terribly public way, but again Marina was the deceiver. And Penelope said to Marina ANYONE BUT COLIN and Marina said, NO it’s going to be Colin. 

Two teenage girls in a terrible situation making bad choices, yes. But Penelope the villain? Nah.

Marina had no right.. And had pen told Colin... Even tho I know partly its cuz of  jealousy... I'd get it... But she didn't.. She aired her out... Now you wanna say it was a flash of teenage vindictiveness and hormones brewed to make a terrible decision fine... But it was devastating to marina and her child first and foremost... To her family name secondly... To Colin thirdly... Now even if she didn't owe Marina a thing... She also lied to her face.. Say what you will in marina.. But she was clear to pen.. As to what her intentions were.. How she planned to treat Colin and why she was doing this screwed up thing.. 

The fact that pen said anyone but colin... Maybe she didn't know that it was the D she was wanting.. But it was... As you said her fam treated her like trash.. So they can get it to... Marina was at least neutral to her.. If she wasn't the girl Colin fell for her and pen woulda got on great... But that's not how it went... 

Marina and what she did/tried to do is to me a whole other subject and yes its seriously messed up... And even with the mitigating circumstances I don't love  it... But between marrying some lech like lord oldyface... Or risking telling colin shes knocked up and  hoping a boy from a wealthy prestigious  family will take in you the  pretty country girl and some unknown bastard.. Or just becoming a poor vagabond with a mouth to feed... And Pen... Who could've issued an ultimatum or spoken to any of the bridgertons.. But instead lied about not harming her fam and instead let it all out for "the ton" to see.... Knowing damn well( in her role as whistledown) that at the  very least marina's prospects and her " honor " would be ruined.. Not to mention the child.... There is s clear cut villian

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I absolutely disagree that there is a clear cut villain, but it's clear we will never agree, so let's agree to disagree and move on.

In that vein, I wanted more of a real villain like Cressida!

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11 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I absolutely disagree that there is a clear cut villain, but it's clear we will never agree, so let's agree to disagree and move on.

In that vein, I wanted more of a real villain like Cressida!

Cressida woulda been too easy... I agree we disagree on Pen in that situation... But overall I wish she wasn't  whistledown... Not a huge fan of making the big girl who gets friendzoned the one who's secretly spilling all the tea... Woulda preferred if it was someone who wasn't an "outsider" who just decided to do this to screw with ppl

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I'm part of the Pen is a villain club. Now, a current villain doesn't mean I'll hate her forever but I think she will need punishment and redemption before I can like her again.  Just feeling kind of bad about it this season won't cut it. 

Marina and Pen probably both felt a little desperate but Marina did what she did after Portia threatened the slum life for her child.  Marina was willing to gamble with her own life but not her child's.  She already lost precious time by being locked up after her pregnancy was discovered so "choose any other man" really wasn't much of an option for her unless she chose to go into an odious life.  I don't blame her for choosing marriage to someone handsome and whose company she enjoyed and who respected her.  Pen did what she did because of a crush. 

The reason I think it was her personal crush and not her friendship is because she did, in a way, try and warn Colin.  She told him twice that Marina was in love with another man and still held affection for that man.  Colin didn't care.  So protecting him from marrying a woman who wasn't fully in love with him wasn't her reason because he had made his choice on that matter.  

As for having him raise a baby that wasn't his.  It's not like the lineage would be impacted.  He's the third son.  The odds that the title would pass to this child were pretty minimal even if it's a boy. 

Finally, the reason I see her more of a villain than a good friend is that her gossip was very careful to eliminate any options for Marina or Colin.  He had already waived off Penelope's warnings about love so she made 100% sure that everyone knew that Marina was pregnant before she came to London.  By including that detail, she made sure that Colin wouldn't even have the chance to do the noble thing he already stated he would have been willing to do and pretend the child was his. Since she left no room for doubt, she knew there'd be no way his family would have let him go forward marrying her with everyone else knowing the baby wasn't his.  That wasn't protection; that was eliminating the competition by any means necessary.  Did it hurt her prospects?  I don't think she thought she had many to begin with.  I even think she believes her Colin crush to be a fantasy but as long as he's not married, she'd get to keep it longer.  

As for lies--well, I'm sure Pen has betrayed many a confidence to get the gossip she published, including Eloise's.  

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4 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

I'm part of the Pen is a villain club. Now, a current villain doesn't mean I'll hate her forever but I think she will need punishment and redemption before I can like her again.  Just feeling kind of bad about it this season won't cut it. 

Marina and Pen probably both felt a little desperate but Marina did what she did after Portia threatened the slum life for her child.  Marina was willing to gamble with her own life but not her child's.  She already lost precious time by being locked up after her pregnancy was discovered so "choose any other man" really wasn't much of an option for her unless she chose to go into an odious life.  I don't blame her for choosing marriage to someone handsome and whose company she enjoyed and who respected her.  Pen did what she did because of a crush. 

The reason I think it was her personal crush and not her friendship is because she did, in a way, try and warn Colin.  She told him twice that Marina was in love with another man and still held affection for that man.  Colin didn't care.  So protecting him from marrying a woman who wasn't fully in love with him wasn't her reason because he had made his choice on that matter.  

As for having him raise a baby that wasn't his.  It's not like the lineage would be impacted.  He's the third son.  The odds that the title would pass to this child were pretty minimal even if it's a boy. 

Finally, the reason I see her more of a villain than a good friend is that her gossip was very careful to eliminate any out clauses for Marina or Colin.  He had already waived off Penlope's warnings about love so she made 100% sure that everyone knew that Marina was pregnant before she came to London.  By including that detail, she made sure that Colin wouldn't even have the chance to do the noble thing he already stated he would have been willing to do and pretend the child was his. Since she left no room for doubt, she knew there'd be no way his family would have let him go forward marrying her with everyone else knowing the baby wasn't his.  That wasn't protection; that was eliminating the competition by any means necessary.  Did it hurt her prospects?  I don't think she thought she had many to begin with.  I even think she believes her Colin crush to be a fantasy but as long as he's not married, she'd get to keep it longer.  

As for lies--well, I'm sure Pen has betrayed many a confidence to get the gossip she published, including Eloise

Bravo.... Nail head meet Hammer 

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Just to point something out, Portia didn't threaten Marina with the slums for her child. Portia is thoroughly despicable, but that's not what she was doing. She was pointing out the likely result if Marina did not marry, not saying "this is what I will do to you." In fact, Portia tried to find a place for Marina's child with the convent, but didn't have the donation that the convent required. And it's pretty disgusting of the convent to require money to take the child.

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2 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

She was pointing out the likely result if Marina did not marry, not saying "this is what I will do to you."

Sorry, when I say "threaten" I meant more in the theoretical "your choice will lead to this future" more than "I will send you there" kind of threat.  Kind of like when a mom tells her child- "if you don't watch where you're going, you will die" because the kid will run into something dangerous more than a mother will literally kill the child. 

I agree that she was being eminently practical with that field trip.

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On 12/25/2020 at 3:31 PM, UnoAgain said:

Well enough finale.. Interested to see what a season 2 would entail... One thing I wouldn't want is too much drama tween our main couple.. I'm good with arguments and such but nothing along the lines of cheating... Also... Penelope is a scumbag... She ruined Marisa.. And for what... Marisa was right... That her crush on Colin was foolish.. And she almost ruined her family... But I guess she doesnt care.. I do hope her be is discovered by some ppl next season.. Mainly Marisa.. Colin... And Eloise... Too many more and how would the show go on... Also.. Does Ms. Delacroix know that Pen is Whistledown? 

I haven't read the books at all, or didn't know anything about this till I just binged it, but it seems to me that they'velaid the groundwork for a bunch of arcs:

Anthony's search for a wife. Has he really managed to get Siena and rakedom out of his system.

Benedict's straddling the world of respectable society and bohemianism/sexual liberation. 

Colin's travel tour and Pen's infatuation of him becoming more public. 

Daphne and Simon as they navigate parenthood and the ghost of the late Duke. Plus they didn't really do very enough with the "Simon's duchy is kinda struggling right about now" thread

Eloise's first season on the marriage market, her struggle to find a path for independence and her efforts to unmask Lady Whistledown

Francesca  -- was she just introduced basically in this last episode? I can't remember a thing about her.

Gregory and Hyacinth - too young to really have their own storylines

As to the Featheringtons, two plot lines would include the aftermath of Lord Featherington's murder and what happens to his estate, and a possible attempt by Marina to get revenge on Pen for exposing her to scandal. 

As to Pen's crush on Colin, I don't think it's inherently foolish. Colin likes her and is inspired by her. Even if he doesn't see her THAT way now, it doesn't mean that he can't or won't. He is a good enough guy and in a position where he has not much social pressure so he could marry her just because they're friends and hope that romantic feelings come around.

Edited by Chicago Redshirt
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4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

What was that final shot about?  Seeing the bee in the window?  

Book spoiler (and probably season two spoiler): 

 

 

Spoiler

The Bridgerton father died from an allergic reaction to a bee sting and this affects Anthony’s outlook on love.  A bee sting also plays a big part in his own romance.

 

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2 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

The reason I think it was her personal crush and not her friendship is because she did, in a way, try and warn Colin.  She told him twice that Marina was in love with another man and still held affection for that man.  Colin didn't care.  So protecting him from marrying a woman who wasn't fully in love with him wasn't her reason because he had made his choice on that matter.  

That's not quite true.  Colin thought Marina had loved someone else, but that she loved him and wanted him now.  He shut Penelope down with a "how can I begrudge her a past when I have one too?"  Not a, "I know she loves her first love still, but I love her enough that I can wait for her feelings to grow."  

And I don't think it's necessarily accurate to say that just because Marina intended to make Colin a good wife that it was okay to do what she was planning to do.  I get it.  But there was no way that Colin wouldn't learn the truth down the line and whether or not he could accept the baby, he was not being given the choice.  Also, he'd come to realize 1) his wife lied to him and 2) even it she liked him, she married for a name not love. That alone might condemn them both to misery. 

All that said, I agree that what Pen did was pretty awful too.  The only thing I can think of was that telling the truth herself might not have gotten her anywhere because it was no guaranteed she'd be believed.  Let say she told Eloise and Eloise told Colin and then Marina denied it.  What then? Conversely, Lady Whistledown was unerringly believed. Also, if her mother learned she brought them down, God help her. Not justifying, just posing a basis for why telling such a huge truth might have had little upside with a lot of risk. It might explain why Pen decided to use her nuclear option.  That said, it was, indeed, a nuclear option and had all the expected fallout.

1 hour ago, bubble sparkly said:

Plus, Pen essentially tells Marina that she doesn't care who she marries as long as it's not Colin. 

This part bothered me and I appreciated Marina's response of, "Who exactly?  Am I to condemn myself and my child for your crush?" But I can see how a teenage girl would be that tribal.  Also, she might feel she was betraying her oldest friends (in both Eloise and Colin) in standing by watching it.

As for the series as a whole, I enjoyed it.  I read the books more than a decade ago.  I don't really remember them well.  I do recall that I liked Eloise and Penelope and didn't much care for Anthony.  But I don't recall Anthony being that big of a feckless fuckwit. Kudos to Sienna and her, "I've chosen to live my life on my terms not yours" speech.

I didn't recall Penelope being Lady Whistledown or Lady Whistledown being outed at all.  But it's been 13+ years since I read them. Since no one his howling over this, I assume I just forgot.  But, then, I also don't remember Lady Whistledown having so much bite to her words or being quite so harmful to people's reputations.  This show veered more toward Regency Gossip Girl. Still fun, tho.

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1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

Colin thought Marina had loved someone else, but that she loved him and wanted him now. 

He heard what she said and said it didn't matter now that they were marrying.  The only thing wrong with his response is it isn't the one Penelope wanted to hear. 

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

The only thing I can think of was that telling the truth herself might not have gotten her anywhere because it was no guaranteed she'd be believed.

I don't think there's any evidence that Eloise wouldn't believe her or that her good friends wouldn't believe her more than they believe Lady Whistledown.  Eloise shouldn't be so trusting of Penelope but she is.  

And so what if he chose not to believe her?  She would have done all that a friend should do--share what she knows and let him make his own life decisions.  Penelope knew Marina wasn't doing what she was doing out of maliciousness.  She was doing it to secure stability for her child so it's not like she was trying to save him from someone cheating on him or trying to kill him. 

It's why it wasn't really about giving them the information so Colin could make his own choices.  It was about giving the information in a way that Colin couldn't make his own choices and still have the support of his family or or avoid public shame if he didn't shun Marina.  

 

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1 minute ago, Door County Cherry said:

I don't think there's any evidence that Eloise wouldn't believe her or that her good friends wouldn't believe her more than they believe Lady Whistledown.  Eloise shouldn't be so trusting of Penelope but she is.  

Eloise likely would ave believed her.  But she needed Colin to believe her.

2 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

And if he chose not to believe her?  Well he tried.  Penelope knew Marina wasn't doing what she was doing out of maliciousness.  She was doing it to secure stability for her child.  

It's why it wasn't really about giving them the information so Colin could make his own choices.  It was about giving the information in a way that Colin couldn't make his own choices and still have the support of his family or or avoid public shame if he didn't shun Marina.  

If he chose not to believe her, he would eventually be hurt. And maybe it would have not matter to him and he would have chosen to go forward knowingly.  So, yeah.  It was the better option generally.  I don't dispute that. 

But it leaves out the point that Penelope would face some consequences within her own family.  That might be a selfish motivation for being underhanded.  But I don't begrudge Penelope some self-preservation strategies anymore than I do Marina.  On the whole, I think Penelope was in the wrong in the way she handled it.  I just don't think it was malice or jealousy as some do.  There were reasons for her to choose the method she did.

Again, she opted for a nuclear option that affected her whole family.  It was dumb and arguable cowardly, but I don't agree that it was malicious or villainy. 

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I think going forward, they have written themselves into a corner with Lady W. Because what she has done has been deliberately malicious in the series and really hurt a lot of people, the blowback of Penelope being discovered would consequently be very severe. As in, ostracized by society severe, losing friendships and relationships severe. But I'm not sure they have the stomach to go there. Once again, they wanted the juicy "scandal" of it, I'm not sure they want to do the hard work of presenting consequences and actual development for the characters.

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11 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

Only if she was discovered. 

If she went to Eloise and Colin, how would she not be discovered?  Colin would confront Marina and it would come out.  Or if he ghosted Marina, someone would confront him.  They are across the street neighbors who have been in each other's lives for decades.  There was no way in which Penelope tells directly that should wouldn't get found out.

But even assuming there was a sliver of a possibility she wouldn't, it would be a big risk for Penelope considering her mother and her position in her family.

ETA:

7 minutes ago, katha said:

I think going forward, they have written themselves into a corner with Lady W. Because what she has done has been deliberately malicious in the series and really hurt a lot of people, the blowback of Penelope being discovered would consequently be very severe. As in, ostracized by society severe, losing friendships and relationships severe. But I'm not sure they have the stomach to go there. Once again, they wanted the juicy "scandal" of it, I'm not sure they want to do the hard work of presenting consequences and actual development for the characters.

I agree.  In the series, Lady W was pretty cutting and did some real damage.  Yes, Marina seemed to have a decent result with Sir Phillip.  But, damn. 

Also, the harm Penelope did to her own family was pretty harsh.  If they learned, everything I said above about consequences it 10 fold. 

Again, I think Penelope was wrong.  I just don't think she was necessary going for damage for damage's sake or malicious, just ill-advised and wrong.

 

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I spend nearly the entire season learning to tell Anthony, Benedict and Colin apart and then they cast Phillip as a long lost Bridgerton? You're killing me, show. 

I think they blew their load prematurely with unmasking Whistledown so soon.

One of the small things I liked was the scene about marriage in the beginning, showing different sides and aches of it. And the small focus the king and queen got was really heart breaking. 

I really hope they get a grip on Anthony for the next season. Like, I couldn't believe how chill he was when he learned that Benedict introduced Eloise to his mistress. What? I'm sorry, WHAT??? And that inanity about bringing Sienna to the ball. Christ above. Sienna, I wish you many happy trails far, far off screen. 

Dude, Featheringtons are fuuuu... Well, at least that Whistledown money should tie them over if Penelope finds a way to actually use it. I doubt Mr. Finch is that well heeled and certainly hope he and Phillipa will marry regardless of her dowry. Have I lost it at some point? Hee. 

I hope Will and his family will be fine and not targeted by the bookies. 

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When somebody does a bad thing... And they have more than an inkling of what the ramifications are ( pen was whistledown she had a good idea)... Did it in a way as to not get caught ( did it as whistledown not as pen)... Did it at least partly out of jealousy (her maybe being ignorant to her own feelings isn't exactly an excuse because marina told her what was going on.. And we as viewers knew immediately)...  Partly out of vindictiveness( we see her fam treats her like trash but what her mom and sisters want the most is shattered after this) and finally benefits her aims more than anyone ( marina destroyed as an obstacle for Colin... Her family taken down a peg... Colin embarrassed and hurt and needing a shoulder to cry on) then I say that person made conscious choices to get what they wanted... And that person shouldn't be affforded as many outs as some folks here want to give her... And  I didn't even bring up the financial ramifications of her dropping such a juicy story... If this were a legal show... She would not survive cross-examination.... 

She had her reasons... And I even say she  didnt really owe anyone anything... But if that's the case... The amount of carnage she left and her insulation from it.. Her other options left untried... She can't walk away from this viewer as anything but the bad guy... For this situation... Not absolving Marina or lady Featherington or her maid or even Lord Featherington or Marina's Dad all the way to Sir George... All are at fault one way or another.. And all before Colin... But even if not on the show yet... Pen looks the worst

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Marina thought she wasn't pregnant anymore when she turned down Phillip. She thought her abortion attempt had worked and had no pressing to get married. 

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9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I haven't read the books at all, or didn't know anything about this till I just binged it, but it seems to me that they'velaid the groundwork for a bunch of arcs:

Anthony's search for a wife. Has he really managed to get Siena and rakedom out of his system.

Benedict's straddling the world of respectable society and bohemianism/sexual liberation. 

Colin's travel tour and Pen's infatuation of him becoming more public. 

Daphne and Simon as they navigate parenthood and the ghost of the late Duke. Plus they didn't really do very enough with the "Simon's duchy is kinda struggling right about now" thread

Eloise's first season on the marriage market, her struggle to find a path for independence and her efforts to unmask Lady Whistledown

Francesca  -- was she just introduced basically in this last episode? I can't remember a thing about her.

Gregory and Hyacinth - too young to really have their own storylines

As to the Featheringtons, two plot lines would include the aftermath of Lord Featherington's murder and what happens to his estate, and a possible attempt by Marina to get revenge on Pen for exposing her to scandal. 

As to Pen's crush on Colin, I don't think it's inherently foolish. Colin likes her and is inspired by her. Even if he doesn't see her THAT way now, it doesn't mean that he can't or won't. He is a good enough guy and in a position where he has not much social pressure so he could marry her just because they're friends and hope that romantic feelings come around.

I read the first three books and I know that Colin is also one of the few people who is nice to Penelope. She is considered the quiet fat one in the background but he seems to appreciate her for her wit and humor. 

If they do another season, I'm sure they will change some things around. I would like to see Anthony's story for sure. 

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Door County Cherry

Please read the rules re: book talk.  It really doesn't belong in episode threads as any specifics about future stories or changes are considered show spoilers, book spoilers or both. 

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