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Door County Cherry

E01.05: The Duke and I

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I'm not sure if I missed something from earlier in the series, but was there any explanation as to why Francesca wasn't at the wedding/reception?  I could have sworn that the only Bridgerton attendees were Violet and Anthony (first row), Benedict and Colin (second row), and then Eloise, Gregory and Hyacinth behind them.

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Francesca wasn't there. It's even more noticeable when Daphne is saying goodbye to her family as she departs with Simon. She's off somewhere with someone... practicing her piano playing or something. It was mentioned earlier in an episode but I forget what it was exactly. And since Simon and Daphne's wedding was arranged in three days, I suppose she didn't have the time to show up. 

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13 hours ago, ouinason said:

Simon's appeal to the Queen was awesome.  My roommate was watching with me and said, "Well hell, I'll marry him.".  I died laughing at him.

Agreed. As was his speech to Daphne on their wedding night. After recently watching a romantic series in which the OTP endured a 20+ episodes of misunderstandings only to clear the air and for the cycle to immediately start again, it’s refreshing to see a couple actually talk through their conflict and misunderstandings.  

So did Benedict sleep with his artist friend’s wife during the orgy? SMH

I sympathized with Marina, at first. But now…her trying to trap poor Colin is just wrong and is not a good look. 

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1 hour ago, Enero said:

So did Benedict sleep with his artist friend’s wife during the orgy? SMH

I imagine he did, but he was th only one of the three not in the know. On the topic, 1) that’s Julian Ovenden playing the painter, why age him up, Netflix?, 2) Lucy Grenville sounded so familiar that I thought this was another character that was shifted like Marina. But I think it just may be the name being similar to Loretta Chase’s Lydia Grenville that’s throwing me off.

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3 hours ago, kayemdee said:

I'm not sure if I missed something from earlier in the series, but was there any explanation as to why Francesca wasn't at the wedding/reception?

I think they mentioned that Francesca was in Bath.  It's on the opposite side of the country from London.  That would have been a two to three day trip.  The entire engagement was only a few days being by special license. 

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Benedict had NO idea that Lucy was Lady Granville when he slept with her, he found out at the party later.  Her husband seemed rather smug about it and Benedict was shocked.  

 

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I was apparently so bored at this ponit of the episode because I've basically missed everything aside from the part that one of the women in the menage was Mrs. Grenville. I had no idea that Benedict saw Grenville with his lover or that Delacrois was the third party in the menage. 

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This show reminds me of The Tudors. I don't rememberer most of the plot except Ann Boyleyn and Henry were like energizer bunnies all over sixteenth century England.

Deja vu.

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Simon remains really a high point of the series.  His speech to the queen was great.  And his speech to Daph on their wedding night was fire.  Whew, chile.  Honestly I still don't see her appeal yet, but she is the heroine so...

Speaking of the queen, her smallish scene with Mad King George was well done and gave her a little bit of inner life outside of simply being this all powerful queen character.  I liked that little bit of character texture for her.

I feel bad for Marina and cringe at her trying to entrap Colin.  But i totally get her desperation as well.  I can also see Lady Featherington's perspective.  Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it is fascinating to see how the show is highlighting the  lengths women go to for survival because of what men do. If Lord Featherington hadn't gambled so much he wouldn't be in debt to Marina's father and the need to keep her there and thus putting her family in jeopardy. 

I love the little glimpse we get of the boxer and his family.  His wife is fab, I like how she completely looks out for her hubs.  And I enjoy the friendship they have with Simon.

Ok, Benedict... I see you.  Get your groove on with your artsy-boho friends.

And finally the show got the awkward pre-wedding talk the way it happens in all the books.  LOL.

 

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24 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Speaking of the queen, her smallish scene with Mad King George was well done and gave her a little bit of inner life outside of simply being this all powerful queen character.  I liked that little bit of character texture for her.

I really loved this too.  It was sad and well done.  

24 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I feel bad for Marina and cringe at her trying to entrap Colin.  But i totally get her desperation as well.  I can also see Lady Featherington's perspective.  Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it is fascinating to see how the show is highlighting the  lengths women go to for survival because of what men do. If Lord Featherington hadn't gambled so much he wouldn't be in debt to Marina's father and the need to keep her there and thus putting her family in jeopardy. 

Yes, too, to all of this.  Marina's situation is awful.  But her solution is also pretty bad.  Really, all of her options are bad.  She's choosing the one least bad for her and her child.  But it is possibly cruel to a decent man whom she actually seems to like. 

As for Lady F, she's an asshole, but she had good reasons for her behavior.  Her only job as a mother to daughters, particularly in the absence of a son to inherit and care for them, is to see them married.  Having Marina pregnant, unwed, and in there home threatens her daughters' futures... granted, only somewhat more than their awful fashions and apparent lack of dowries...

 

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3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Simon remains really a high point of the series.  His speech to the queen was great.  And his speech to Daph on their wedding night was fire.  Whew, chile.  Honestly I still don't see her appeal yet, but she is the heroine so...

Speaking of the queen, her smallish scene with Mad King George was well done and gave her a little bit of inner life outside of simply being this all powerful queen character.  I liked that little bit of character texture for her.

I feel bad for Marina and cringe at her trying to entrap Colin.  But i totally get her desperation as well.  I can also see Lady Featherington's perspective.  Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it is fascinating to see how the show is highlighting the  lengths women go to for survival because of what men do. If Lord Featherington hadn't gambled so much he wouldn't be in debt to Marina's father and the need to keep her there and thus putting her family in jeopardy. 

 

I also enjoyed that scene with the Queen and George.  The actress did a wonderful job of showing all the emotions of a woman seeing the man she loves in a lucid moment right before the anguish when he slips again.  They were lucky enough to have a love match before George's illness became too much.   

I adore Polly Walker as Lady F.  I get where she is coming from as a mother of daughters in a time period where they have few options.   Yes, she is mercenary but she also understands their world and is trying to do right by her daughters and even Marina.  She has every reason to send Marina away to avoid scandal,  but does try to find Marina a husband.   Women like her who work the system while still being a part of it fascinate me.  

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On 12/25/2020 at 8:03 PM, TheOtherOne said:

I loved that the prince was genuinely nice and decent. The final conversation with him and Daphne was my favorite part of the episode.

Right? Can the Prussian prince stick around for one of the other main female characters, like Eloise or Penelope? He's super nice and dopey, like a happy Golden Retriever. And it took me until this episode to recognise the actor as the guy who played Adam (the bachelor) on UnREAL.

I'm not crazy about the queen on this show and she crops up too often. I don't like the actress's choices ie. I'd like her to be haughtier and snootier and colder. It's a strange criticism to say that she's too expressive but there you go. It makes her seem slightly cartoonish, when she should be more intimidating than Lady Danbury. I'd like if she was more like Maggie Smith's character in Downton. Does the queen feature in the Bridgerton books?

I think Daphne is *perfectly* cast as a Regency romance heroine. She reminds me of Belle from Beauty and the Beast, and I think both heroines are supposed to be relatable to girls and women, as opposed to drop dead gorgeous sexpots cast with men and male viewers in mind. Regency romance novels are for women, and having read a lot of them, I can say that it's not unusual for the heroine to be slightly bland, the better to project yourself onto her and enjoy the fantasy. And I find the show's concept of beauty pretty interesting, given that the two female characters praised for their beauty are Daphne and Marina, while the tall, blonde, and most conventionally beautiful young woman, Cressida, is not a main character, does not belong to either of the main families, and has a minor role as a mean girl/antagonist/rival. Like, it's not about her. Either it's because standards of beauty were different in that period, or (more likely) because this show is more concerned with the female gaze than the male gaze.

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) that’s Julian Ovenden playing the painter, why age him up, Netflix?

Didn't realize that... will have to go back and look.  I'm a big fan.

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6 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Women like her who work the system while still being a part of it fascinate me.  

Like Joan in Mad Men. 

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15 hours ago, Kirsty said:

I think Daphne is *perfectly* cast as a Regency romance heroine. She reminds me of Belle from Beauty and the Beast, and I think both heroines are supposed to be relatable to girls and women, as opposed to drop dead gorgeous sexpots cast with men and male viewers in mind. Regency romance novels are for women, and having read a lot of them, I can say that it's not unusual for the heroine to be slightly bland, the better to project yourself onto her and enjoy the fantasy. And I find the show's concept of beauty pretty interesting, given that the two female characters praised for their beauty are Daphne and Marina, while the tall, blonde, and most conventionally beautiful young woman, Cressida, is not a main character, does not belong to either of the main families, and has a minor role as a mean girl/antagonist/rival. Like, it's not about her. Either it's because standards of beauty were different in that period, or (more likely) because this show is more concerned with the female gaze than the male gaze.

I think the actress that plays Daphne Phoebe Dynevor is strikingly attractive, and perfectly cast as the "standard of beauty" for the regency period. With her long neck, big eyes, pale clear skin, small mouth- that was very much "in fashion" at the time. The "standards of beauty" were very different in the regency than the 21st century- "sex pot" wasn't a thing well bred young women aspired to*, that was for opera singers and actresses. The character of Cressida, while blonde is presented to be an ice queen with sharp sharp features (the actress herself has a more angular face, not popular for the regency era), she isnt going to be the object of romantic devotion in this story. 

For the record I am not condemning any of these women's looks- they are all gorgeous, but for the standards of the time period they are acting in, and the social milieu they occupy, I have no problem believing Daphne is seen to be the more attractive of the two.

I am not going to comment on Marina's beauty standards because that can go into an entirely different discussion of colorism- which was an issue in black communities in the 18th century just as it is now (in different ways of course) but I am oh so happy her hair is PROPERLY HYDRATED! It. Is. Wonderful.

 

*nor a thing regency era men wanted for their wives, beautiful and sensual yes, sexy was what a mistress was for

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"sex pot" wasn't a thing well bred young women aspired to*, that was for opera singers and actresses

*nor a thing regency era men wanted for their wives, beautiful and sensual yes, sexy was what a mistress was for

No one is claiming otherwise. We're discussing casting for the show, and the casting happened this century, when sexy is definitely a thing!

Similarly, no one's saying Daphne (or Belle or Marina) isn't lovely to look at. I'm interested in the type of beauty that the show is choosing; and I appreciate your insight into the type of beauty that was in fashion in the Regency era. I wonder how much of a factor that was in the casting process.

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2 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

No one is claiming otherwise. We're discussing casting for the show, and the casting happened this century, when sexy is definitely a thing!

Similarly, no one's saying Daphne (or Belle or Marina) isn't lovely to look at. I'm interested in the type of beauty that the show is choosing; and I appreciate your insight into the type of beauty that was in fashion in the Regency era. I wonder how much of a factor that was in the casting process.

Oh yes I totally get you! I love discussing these things because they are so subjective, its fun listening to other people's opinions. I am sure the casting directors were choosing a balance between talent, people that looked related (they did a great job on that with the Bridgerton siblings, my Mom commented that Cressida and her Mother looked so much alike as well) the beauty standards of the period and our beauty standards in 2020. 

Also makeup and styling can change the look of an actor quite a bit, I have seen actors go from "Bombshell" to "girl next door" in-between roles just due to makeup and wardrobe choices. As a character Daphne is to be the ingenue we are rooting for, I 100% understand what you're saying that they want her to be "attractive" but "accessibly attractive" (in a Hollywood way). When I first saw the character and her neckline, doe eyes and small lips, I thought "Yup she has the face for these 19th century period pieces." kind of like Kiera Knightly (I think someone else made the comparison but thought Kiera Knightly was more attractive, I think Phoebe is more striking).

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I think the actress who plays Daphne is very pretty and probably would be exactly what was considered  a diamond in Regency times.  But for me it is more about her on screen charisma and how the personality she projects through the screen comes through.  Whenever she is on screen with Simon, my attention is always on him. And it isn't just because he is fine and I am a hetero woman -- LOL, but she sometimes really disappears.  Also it doesn't help that her hair is kinda tragic.  I keep wanting to reach through the screen and do something about her bangs.

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

am not going to comment on Marina's beauty standards because that can go into an entirely different discussion of colorism- which was an issue in black communities in the 18th century just as it is now (in different ways of course) but I am oh so happy her hair is PROPERLY HYDRATED! It. Is. Wonderful.

Girlfriend was also wearing a headwrap at bedtime.  Holla!

Very shallow, I know, but from a pure physical beauty standpoint, I think the actress who plays Madame Delcroix is just stunning.  The casting for her is right on the money, she has an air of elegance and sophistication that feels right for a person in her position.

Edited by DearEvette
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1 minute ago, DearEvette said:

Whenever she is on screen with Simon, my attention is always on him. And it isn't just because he is fine and I am a hetero woman -- LOL, but she sometimes really disappears.  Also it doesn't help that her hair is kinda tragic.  I keep wanting to reach through the screen and do something about her bangs.

You are cracking me up (bolding mine).

2 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Girlfriend was also wearing a headwrap at bedtime.  Holla!

I SAW THAT! I loved it. 

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I kind of thought Daphne was giving off May Welland vibes in this episode. I would have liked to see more of that side of her developed, but turns out Daphne and Simon are crazy in love I guess?

As for Marina yeah what she's doing to Colin is shitty but she's with child and she sort of needs to marry somebody before her condition becomes obvious. Regency style dresses are great for hiding early pregnancy though.

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Also Simon seems to say in this episode that he purposely trapped Daphne into marriage by chomping on her neck in the garden. I never read their garden makeout scene that way. 

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30 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Also Simon seems to say in this episode that he purposely trapped Daphne into marriage by chomping on her neck in the garden. I never read their garden makeout scene that way. 

I didn't interpret it as that he purposely trapped her into marriage, but rather he knew the risk in following her into the garden and the greater risk in touching her at all and he did it anyway and maybe even kind of hoped for it without consciously planning it. 

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On 12/29/2020 at 10:03 AM, Kirsty said:

because this show is more concerned with the female gaze than the male gaze.

I can tell you that this man is very appreciative that this show is more concerned with the female gaze. Especially with this episode.

On 12/27/2020 at 4:30 PM, bijoux said:

Francesca wasn't there. It's even more noticeable when Daphne is saying goodbye to her family as she departs with Simon. She's off somewhere with someone... practicing her piano playing or something.

I was discussing this with a friend and her response was 'There was a missing sister?' I think there are some people who may be shocked when a 4th sister appears again.

On 12/29/2020 at 6:18 AM, DearEvette said:

Ok, Benedict... I see you.  Get your groove on with your artsy-boho friends.

I so hope he gets his groove on with Granville, the male though. Wishful thinking I know.

On 12/29/2020 at 9:46 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I also enjoyed that scene with the Queen and George.  The actress did a wonderful job of showing all the emotions of a woman seeing the man she loves in a lucid moment right before the anguish when he slips again.  They were lucky enough to have a love match before George's illness became too much.   

I watched The Madness of King George the other night, because of this show. And I found it interesting that when George in this show started to relapse, the courtiers started to try and hold him in his chair which was very similar to the technique used by the physician in the movie to cure and control George's outburst. Not sure if the method was factual or not but it was a nice touch.

I hope Pen and Eloise can mend their friendship. And I hope Colin wakes up to the entrapment. I understand why Marina is doing what she is, but can't she do it to some other nice guy? Anyone but Colin haha.

On 12/29/2020 at 6:18 AM, DearEvette said:

And finally the show got the awkward pre-wedding talk the way it happens in all the books.  LOL.

Comedic highlight of the episode for me.

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I had to laugh at the "inn" being more like a swanky ski resort. Back in the day inns were filthy, bed-bug and excrement filled places. All of Daphne's nice honeymoon clothes definitely would have gotten dirty at the inn if we were being realistic.

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Something not mentioned above:

After they had sex, Simon rolled away in a manner reminiscent of my first boyfriend from 50 years ago if we were depending upon withdrawal for birth control that night. This seems to re-enforce the impression we were given at Simon's father's near-death bed that not having children was Simon's choice.
But when, in another episode, Simon told Daphne he could not give her children, it sounded to me more like he had discovered he was infertile from "dalliances" with other women --perhaps thinking a sweeter revenge on his father would be to have his only heir be from a milk maid, if not from a lady of the night --only to discover he could not procreate.
Certainly from Daphne's conversation with her maid, we know that Daphne thinks Simon is not physically capable of fathering children.

So now I guess the rest of the series will be Daphne figuring out the rest of the Birds and the Bees, and Simon "giving" her children after all.

Although I'm still thinking that (spoiler tagging in case my guess is on the nose)

Spoiler

Marina's baby will one way or another come to be raised by Daphne and Simon.

 

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Simon's speech to the queen did more to sell me on any genuine feeling or wanting between these two than most of their scenes up to that point. So either the actor is that good or the portrayal hasn't quite been working as well as maybe they thought it was.

Outlander has pretty much ruined all other TV sex scenes, but I guess Simon's "can't have children" really is just "I'm gonna pull out and rely on you being too naive about how all this works" to understand he was talking about choice rather than some mysterious unnamed physical infirmity. Daphne's pre-wedding night talk with Mama Bridgerton certainly didn't give her much to go on in that department. I know misunderstanding each other's intentions before a big sweeping music reveal of Twu Luv is another romance novel trope, but ye gods was it tedious watching these two go through most of an episode looking so pained at each other while trying to throw together a whirlwind wedding. Hey guys, if you're trying to head off any whiff of scandal, maybe at least act like you like each other a little before making a headlong dash to the altar. Because as it was, no one could really be faulted for thinking it read more like "my brothers are making us do this because something happened."

So confirmation that there was some gay subtext with Granville and Benedict, even if it landed more as bisexual painter with a houseful of orgy and an unwitting three-way with Granville's wife.

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On 12/28/2020 at 11:03 PM, Kirsty said:

And it took me until this episode to recognise the actor as the guy who played Adam (the bachelor) on UnREAL.

What a shout. I wouldn’t have recognised him at all.

Given Simon is using the pull out method I assume the next obstacle between Daphne and Simon will be that he can give her children but refuses to. 

Not really liking Marina. Her situation is terrible but her trapping a nice boy just isn’t fun to watch and overall she just comes off as a bit of a pain.

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On 12/29/2020 at 7:51 PM, DearEvette said:

I think the actress who plays Daphne is very pretty and probably would be exactly what was considered  a diamond in Regency times.  But for me it is more about her on screen charisma and how the personality she projects through the screen comes through.  Whenever she is on screen with Simon, my attention is always on him. And it isn't just because he is fine and I am a hetero woman -- LOL, but she sometimes really disappears.  Also it doesn't help that her hair is kinda tragic.  I keep wanting to reach through the screen and do something about her bangs.

Yes! It's hard to believe why Simon would fall in love with her, and even less why his passion is so great.

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Why did they cast a Benedict that looks about 10 yrs older than Anthony?

That whole wedding night scene was steamy. Whew!

I don’t know why Cressida was so smug. The Prince didn’t stick around long enough to resume his courtship. She’s back to being on the market. 

21 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I had to laugh at the "inn" being more like a swanky ski resort. Back in the day inns were filthy, bed-bug and excrement filled places. All of Daphne's nice honeymoon clothes definitely would have gotten dirty at the inn if we were being realistic.

Plus she would have her maid (Rose?) with her to help with her clothes. 

19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But when, in another episode, Simon told Daphne he could not give her children, it sounded to me more like he had discovered he was infertile from "dalliances" with other women --

He definitely was vague but I think he meant because of his vow he could not, as well as would not, give her children. I think he’s perfectly capable, as I’m sure we’ll see before this is over.

I didn’t realize that was Mrs Granville Ben was canoodling with in the previous episode. Awkward!

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4 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Why did they cast a Benedict that looks about 10 yrs older than Anthony?

Oh my god yes Benedict looks so much older. I was surprised to see the actors are the same age.

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I don't even mind because I actually like the actor and he made me want to see more of Benedict, when he was a total non-entity for me in the books. 

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On 12/28/2020 at 2:18 PM, DearEvette said:

Speaking of the queen, her smallish scene with Mad King George was well done and gave her a little bit of inner life outside of simply being this all powerful queen character.  I liked that little bit of character texture for her.

But the crazy thing is:  it’s *Regency* England.  Her son was acting King, because of the madness of King George.  Charlotte had no power at all.

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5 minutes ago, MartyQui said:

But the crazy thing is:  it’s *Regency* England.  Her son was acting King, because of the madness of King George.  Charlotte had no power at all.

Seemingly in this alternate universe she had no living sons or daughters. 

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19 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Seemingly in this alternate universe she had no living sons or daughters. 

But, do we want Prinny on our screens?  

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33 minutes ago, MartyQui said:

But the crazy thing is:  it’s *Regency* England.  Her son was acting King, because of the madness of King George.  Charlotte had no power at all.

She may not have had the power of the Regent, but before GIV was declared Regent she was most definitlely in the running for it herself. Also she was made the official guardian of the kind himself.  And finally, she had a LOT of social power she was still the queen after all.  Prinny and his wife were estranged so Charlotte acted as his hostess.  And it was her drawing room where all the debs were presented.

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So Daphne's total lack of sex-ed reminded me of poor Sofia Tolstoy. Before her marriage to Count Tolstoy Sofia got a brutal sex-ed lesson when Lev gave her his diaries which documented his sexual encounters with various women. Sofia was so shocked and traumatized she said she never felt the same way about Lev again. In all her diaries she makes mention of being pregnant (16 times!), of countless quarrels with her husband, but never of enjoying any sex.

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On 1/1/2021 at 8:42 AM, nodorothyparker said:

Outlander has pretty much ruined all other TV sex scenes, but I guess Simon's "can't have children" really is just "I'm gonna pull out and rely on you being too naive about how all this works" to understand he was talking about choice rather than some mysterious unnamed physical infirmity.

Yeah the Outlander wedding night episode makes me hug myself with glee while this episode had me cackling like a wicked old voyeur (which is what I felt like.)  Completely different vibe.  But I say again . . . damn that man is pretty to look at.

That being said, what the hell was all that in the prior episodes that had us all guessing that he was impotent or gay or just determined to remain childless?  I guess it was only the latter and while he had intended to abstain from sex with Daphne completely, he changed his mind and decided to rely on the withdrawal method of birth control instead.  So . . . you know what they call people who rely on that form of birth control?  Parents.

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1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

That being said, what the hell was all that in the prior episodes that had us all guessing that he was impotent or gay or just determined to remain childless?  

I can only guess it was written that way so the audience would relate to Daphne's confusion.

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I am glad that the Prince took Daphne's rejection so well, he really is an actual Prince Charming and I hope we find out later that he found a nice girl somewhere. I also found it sweet that Daphne specifically mentioned that it was hard to leave a good and kind man rather than a prince, I am sure that he could appreciate Daphne assuring him that, while she was in love with someone else, she liked him as a person and not just as a title. 

The scene between Queen Charlotte and King George was really good and added a lot more to the queen and her private struggles. You could see her tentative excitement when George seemed lucid and her grief when he slipped away again, not to mention having to tell him that their daughter has passed. It also probably helped convince her to let Simon and Daphne go ahead and get married, she knows how important it is to cherish the time you have with someone you truly love. 

That wedding night was hot, even if the pull out method is certainly going to backfire either by her getting pregnant anyway or when Daphne finally figure out/is told how babies really happen and that Simon's inability to give her children isn't based on medical issues but based on daddy issues. Simon is so hot its straight up distracting sometimes. I really like Daphne and find the actress lovely (especially in a Regency England kind of way) but its so hard to pay attention to her sometimes while Simon is smoldering away in the same room. 

I feel badly for Marina, but trying to trap Colin is a crappy thing to do. Even if it would work out in the long term, its not a great way to start a relationship, even by the standards of the time. She should have gone with the old guy and just waited it out for his ticker to stop ticking. Its especially bad because its clear that Penelope, Marina's only friend here, so clearly has a crush on him.

Benedict sure seems to be having fun with his new wild bohemian friends. So we get confirmation that Benedicts painter friend is definitely into guys, and is presumably either gay or bisexual, and it seems like his wife probably knows. She might have even told her husband that she slept with Benedict, and at the next party they might see if Benedict would be interested in...sharing. 

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1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

…The scene between Queen Charlotte and King George was really good and added a lot more to the queen and her private struggles. You could see her tentative excitement when George seemed lucid and her grief when he slipped away again, not to mention having to tell him that their daughter has passed. It also probably helped convince her to let Simon and Daphne go ahead and get married, she knows how important it is to cherish the time you have with someone you truly love.…

I didn’t make that connection. But then after a messy divorce 30 years ago, I always spurned any would-be suitors because I never wanted to go through the heartache again —whether by divorce or death —and ultimately there is an end. So it’s a good thing the Queen wasn’t like me or Simon’s impressively romantic appeal would have had no effect. 

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I think this episode made me understand Queen Charlotte's plight a little better. I don't think she really hates him or sees him as a roadblock, she just knows that his grief/madness will never allow him to be the man she married ever again. 

I still find Daphne sort of ho hum as a main character. I also refuse to believe that someone growing up in a family with a new baby what, every other year or so would never question the mechanics of where they come from. I believe that young girls were not told everything, but not that they were not ever curious. 

And on the other end of the spectrum: I understand that Simon does not wish to have children because his own father was such a terrible example. But his best friend has three children, and surely he's the better example of how fatherhood works and that it can be an enjoyable experience. So the reticence sort of baffles me.

Poor Penelope. I think out of the bunch, I find her the most endearingly human. She just runs away with every scene she's in.

 

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They boned! The end.

Simon is a fox. Hell I’d marry him.

Yeah right man back then did not have bodies like that or waxed themselves. I doubt women waxed themselves either.

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On 1/1/2021 at 1:50 PM, Haleth said:

Why did they cast a Benedict that looks about 10 yrs older than Anthony?

There were 2 or 3 instances across 2 or 3 episodes where I thought he was the dad before remembering that the dad was dead. Actually, the first time it happened, I thought there was going to be a reveal that the dad wasn't actually dead, before I realized it was a brother.

On 1/10/2021 at 2:10 AM, Aliferously said:

And on the other end of the spectrum: I understand that Simon does not wish to have children because his own father was such a terrible example. But his best friend has three children, and surely he's the better example of how fatherhood works and that it can be an enjoyable experience. So the reticence sort of baffles me.

I don't think he refuses to have children because he doesn't know what a good father looks like. He refuses to have children out of spite and a refusal to go back on what he swore to his father. After the scene with the friends' kids it seemed to me that he does want kids but is stubborn. (FWIW I never interpreted his earlier statement that he "can't" have kids to mean he was physically unable in any way, just that refused to.)

Edited by janie jones
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4 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Is this the same King George of Hamilton fame? (pardon my ignorance)  🙂

Yep.  It's George III in his decline.  

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