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Door County Cherry

E01.02: Shock and Delight

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4 minutes ago, DanaMB said:

I’m really enjoying the use of modern songs for the music. 

Yeah. I can't necessarily identify them (because I'm bad with music) but they did sound contemporary. 

The dance was the first time I felt any sort of chemistry between the leads.  I'm sure dancing that close isn't "historically accurate" I do think it was necessary to help them feel the pull.  

I thought Mrs. Bridgerton was a little annoying in that she yelled at Anthony for not making a match for Daphne and then yelled at him for making one.  If she thought he was messing up her daughter's marital prospects, she should have pulled it from him.

I hope this show lasts long enough to tell Eloise's story (book version, which I haven't read, or not)  because I'm loving her. 

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2 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

Yeah. I can't necessarily identify them (because I'm bad with music) but they did sound contemporary. 

The dance was the first time I felt any sort of chemistry between the leads.  I'm sure dancing that close isn't "historically accurate" I do think it was necessary to help them feel the pull. 

If you turn the closed captioning on, it identifies the songs when they're played. 

I thought the dancing was interesting because Daphne and the Duke appeared to be dancing a much more contemporary dance than the couples in the background.  It might just have been the camera angle, though. 

Edited by Quilt Fairy
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Glad to get the Simon backstory in this episode and it was also great that they connected it to Lady Danbury. I loved her telling tiny Simon that she was afraid of her own shadow so she reinvented herself as the most terrifying thing. His father was a terrible excuse for a human being and it's no wonder that he doesn't want anything to do with society or marriage and to make sure his father knew that his dreams of a Bassett Hastings dynasty died with him. 

I don't get why Anthony was so 100% on the Berbrooke train at first. I know he though he was a decent man with no debts or bad habits but there's not quite so much need to practically arrange the marriage against everyone else's objections within a few days, even if he was the only one who had asked. I'm glad he and Daphne talked a bit though. 

Berbrooke himself also went from creepy drip to blackmailer very quickly. 

Eloise and Penelope trying to find out where babies come from was hysterical with her just laying it out there in the drawing room to her brothers' amusement and her mother's horror. She's wrong about the specifics but they do in some ways need to know so that it doesn't happen to them and they suddenly find themselves in over their heads. And I loved the talk with Benedict about wanting something different (whilst smoking!) and he agreed. 

Daphne and Simon have good chemistry and there is some wit in their interactions but I think this plan plot is going to get very dragged out and tiresome before it's all settled. 

Queen Charlotte was great and I loved the snuff, nice touch. "Obviously I'm not wrong because when I choose to extend my favour I expect them to make good on it!". 

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I loved Penelope's ponderings about pregnancies. Well, our parents had the three of us. How can love be the cause then? 😁 I truly would support and watch Eloise and Penelope's version of Golden Girls. That reply did remind me of 

Spoiler

Felicity though. Don't tell me they scrapped her character. The proposal scene woth her and Mrs Featherington present in Romancing Mr Bridgerton is one of the scenes I remember most. 

Colin better shape up and develop a personality or I'm rooting for the girls to end up together. 

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Man, 2 episodes in and Eloise is seriously stealing this show out from under Daphne.

Well, maybe Queen Charlotte too.  I love how just so deep in her ennui she is that she is positively bored while that poor contortionist contorts her little heart out to entertain her.  The actress who plays the Queen's facial expressions are everything.

Marina's storyline is a regency romance staple.  I love how the show plays up the total cluelessness of the gentle bred ladies of the time wrt to sex.  I am not sure how 100% accurate that is IRL, but in romance novels it is totally a thing.  They are given a little speech by their mamas the night before they get married that basically says 'yeah, your husband will tell you everything you need to know' and then they get the hell out of dodge. LOL.  So it is fun to see Penelope and Eloise so perplexed and yet so determined.

So they shipped off Francesca.  Huh.  I wonder if she is gone for the rest of the show?  It took me a minute to remember what she looked like.  And I appreciate more than ever that we can keep the birth order of the Bridgertons straight simply by remembering they are named alphabetically by birth order.  I keep thinking Francesca is older than Eloise but she isn't because duh 'E' comes before 'F'.  I did like the scene where Eloise dramatically comes in and demands to know about babies.  All the siblings acted like siblings.  I like them as a family.

Ah, poor Simon.  No wonder he hates his father so much. Also the little Simons were all so cute. And once again, I have to shout out the casting for Simon.  Rege-Jean Page does a good job of bringing out that something-something that makes an on page romance novel hero work so well.  I loved his beat down of Berbrooke. And holy hell, his final scene with his father, poetic justice. 

The gossip tree scene was funny.

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20 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I have to shout out the casting for Simon.  Rege-Jean Page does a good job of bringing out that something-something that makes an on page romance novel hero work so well. 

Rege-Jean Page is devilishly handsome, I loved his portrayal of Chicken George in the 2016 Roots remake. Here he brings a sexy mystery the role requires, but with a cold shell. He’s got talent. 

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Ah, so queen Charlotte is fond of coke. 

Simon's sperm donor (not dad--doesn't deserve that term) is a d-bag. It's been forever since I read the books so I forgot. I like the chemistry between the actors who play him and Daphne (can't remember their names).

Also forgot poor Penelope's tragic fashion due to her mother.

If all of these guys were having sex with opera singers, etc left and right, where are all the illegitimate kids? How are none of them with VD? 

I seriously need to reread and refresh myself. 

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40 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

Ah, so queen Charlotte is fond of coke. 

Cocaine didn’t surface until the mid to late 19th century. So I’m thinking Queen Charlotte was either sniffing some powder form of opium or another drug that was prominent at that time. 

The Duke’s father was a POS. I thought maybe he’d come around after hearing his son speak without stammering, but I guess the “damage” had been done with him having difficulty speaking. What a horrible man. 

Love Lady Danbury. Thank goodness she was there to help the Duke when he was a child.

Glad they were able to get rid of Nigel. If Daphne had been forced to marry him her life would’ve been a nightmare. 

Dont understand what the plan is for Marina. Are they just going to keep her locked in that room until she gives birth? Then what? She re-emerges as a single mother? Or they ship the baby off to an orphanage and have her act as if she was never “spoiled” and pregnant?

Edited by Enero
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3 hours ago, Atlanta said:

 

If all of these guys were having sex with opera singers, etc left and right, where are all the illegitimate kids? How are none of them with VD? 

Their hero status offers them protection. It's the villain of the piece or the odius side player like Berbrooke who'll get himself into that mess. 

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Eh, I'm not loving this so so much. It just seems supremely silly. I'm enjoying the costumes, the opulence, and the secondary characters, but it just feels like an old WB  or CW series dressed up in Georgian costume. Another  problem  for me is that the lead actress is not doing anything to hold my interest. Her character is supposed to be enchanting and spectacular, and I'm afraid she's just ... not. The fellas are certainly handsome, but the whole focus of the show so far seems to be Daphne, and I find myself tuning out whenever she's on. I don't care about her marriage prospects, or what ruse she cooks up with Mr. Hastings. I kept looking at my watch through the second episode.

I do think the Bridgerton siblings are believable and fun when they're together on screen (though I wish there weren't eight of them - it's hard to keep them straight). I wish the show were about Eloise and Penelope instead. Oh well.

 

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I could also watch a show dedicated solely to Eloise. She is so much fun. 

The scene on the swingset was amazing. "Go ahead, punish me" was my favourite line, especially in the delivery.

I also liked the servants version of Chinese Whispers. Glad to see the creepy Duke being sent off. He probably wouldn't have survived to the altar at the rate he kept being beaten up anyway.

I thought the brothers were all sort of same-y looking so it was hard to tell them apart, but I like Benedict most I think.

I think Marina will be shipped off to a nunnery or a home for unwed mothers once she starts showing. I didn't get the impression she was locked in there though. Penelope could walk right in with that plate of food.

 

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The moron Baronet's crime wasn't having the illegitimate son, it was refusing to take care of him.  Sending the pregnant maid away and just forgetting about it was just not ok, even back then.  You were supposed to provide a small living, maybe get a farmer to marry her (KNOWINGLY) and give them a big dowry.  It made him look like as big of a tool as he actually was and shamed him out of town (probably temporarily) so he couldn't pester Daphne.

Many romance novel heroes have children outside of marriage, but they take care of them (well... usually, or at least eventually).

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I'm still dialling in Broadchurch Olly being the older brother in this.

I'm not overly invested, but I also haven't read the books. Will give it another ep or so...

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On 12/26/2020 at 2:24 AM, bijoux said:

Congrats to Simon for restraining himself from putting a pillow over the dying prick's head. 

I legit thought the scene was going to end there, especially considering it was a Shonda show.

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23 hours ago, bijoux said:

 

If all of these guys were having sex with opera singers, etc left and right, where are all the illegitimate kids? How are none of them with VD? 

Good questions. So if Hastings fathered a child out of wedlock, would that not be an heir? Even if it was his only child? Is he being careful about this?

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4 minutes ago, betha said:

Good questions. So if Hastings fathered a child out of wedlock, would that not be an heir? Even if it was his only child? Is he being careful about this?

No.  Children born out of wedlock would not inherit the title or the state.  Only legitimate children would get that; although fathers can make provisions for their "bastard" children. 

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23 hours ago, bijoux said:
On 12/26/2020 at 8:57 PM, Atlanta said:

 

If all of these guys were having sex with opera singers, etc left and right, where are all the illegitimate kids? How are none of them with VD? 

Their hero status offers them protection. It's the villain of the piece or the odius side player like Berbrooke who'll get himself into that mess. 

LOL.  Right.  Only villains got VD in romance novels. 

But for real, condoms were a thing in the 1800s.  Not as effective as today but still a barrier method.  Also sex workers had their own ways of preventing pregnancy including sponges soaked in various things that might kill sperm contact.  Again not as effective as today but probably did work to prevent some pregnancies. 

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I’m confused about Daphne and Simon’s fake romance. Why are the eligible girls and their mothers leaving him alone now? Suitors are now flocking to Daphne so it’s obviously not considered a done deal. 

I agree with the person who said the lead actress is lacking something. When I first saw her, I thought the character was supposed to be bland but apparently not.

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34 minutes ago, Maya said:

I’m confused about Daphne and Simon’s fake romance. Why are the eligible girls and their mothers leaving him alone now? Suitors are now flocking to Daphne so it’s obviously not considered a done deal. 

I don't think that made sense in the book either. It was just 'cause.

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The reason for that is PLOT. See the thing that makes all the women leave him alone is the exact thing that makes all the boys want her! 

Spoiler

In the books, Daphne is in her third or so season without marrying and she's considered perfectly nice and bland and has been friendzoned by every eligible man. The actress pulls that off without it actually being part of the show.

 

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6 minutes ago, ouinason said:

I think the reason that it gets people off of Simon's back is sexism.  Daphne is a product up for sale.  Seeing someone else up drives up her value.  Simon on the other hand, is seen as being ... mid negotiation for buying that product, therefore other sellers are moving on to more available buyers.

Exactly. Also in the heteronormative frame work, men are to supposed to be the aggressors, if a man is publicly pursuing a woman, it doesnt behoove other women to waste time on him (for marriage), if he was interested he would be "aggressing", their time and energy is better spent else where.

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1 hour ago, ouinason said:

I think the reason that it gets people off of Simon's back is sexism.  Daphne is a product up for sale.  Seeing someone else up drives up her value.  Simon on the other hand, is seen as being ... mid negotiation for buying that product, therefore other sellers are moving on to more available buyers.

That makes sense. The sexism in this episode was sad and appalling. 

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I thought maybe he’d come around after hearing his son speak without stammering, but I guess the “damage” had been done with him having difficulty speaking. 

I didn't understand this either, or that Simon's "revenge" would be to never marry or create an heir only because having a long line of heirs was important to his father. The guy's dead. Don't make your own life more miserable when the guy isn't around anymore. Take your revenge by taking the title and the money and everything that goes with it, but maybe doing something charitable with it. Or adopt other children, as Lady Danbury effectively did for you.

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35 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

The guy's dead. Don't make your own life more miserable when the guy isn't around anymore.

 

33 minutes ago, ouinason said:

My revenge on you is to make the rest of my life all about you

Yes it's stupid but this is literally how vengeance works. Some old guy (too lazy to google it) said something like if you're going to seek vengeance you need to dig 2 graves - one for your enemy and one for yourself.

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4 minutes ago, ursula said:

 

Yes it's stupid but this is literally how vengeance works. Some old guy (too lazy to google it) said something like if you're going to seek vengeance you need to dig 2 graves - one for your enemy and one for yourself.

Confucius.

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7 hours ago, Maya said:

I agree with the person who said the lead actress is lacking something. When I first saw her, I thought the character was supposed to be bland but apparently not.

Oh I don't know.  I think bland perfectly describes Daphne and Daphne and Simon to me.  The fact that Simon on screen shines at all is is all thanks to the actor.  

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1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

I didn't understand this either, or that Simon's "revenge" would be to never marry or create an heir only because having a long line of heirs was important to his father. The guy's dead. Don't make your own life more miserable when the guy isn't around anymore. Take your revenge by taking the title and the money and everything that goes with it, but maybe doing something charitable with it. Or adopt other children, as Lady Danbury effectively did for you.

This is completely true, but it's a fact that Simon had to discover for himself. That he shouldn't ruin his own life by focusing on what his father did or didn't want and let him rule him from beyond the grave. I think it's something that has to come from personal realisation, not that can be told to someone and they'll believe it. 

27 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

Oh I don't know.  I think bland perfectly describes Daphne and Daphne and Simon to me.  The fact that Simon on screen shines at all is is all thanks to the actor.  

I think they had chemistry on the show but as a couple they've always been very bland, nice but dull. The Plan and Simon's admittedly huge father issues are the only things that give them any trouble, otherwise they'd be that couple that meet and have a nice albeit privileged and wealthy life that no one would write about. So the external factors become as dramatic as possible. 

 

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On 12/25/2020 at 2:09 PM, Door County Cherry said:

I hope this show lasts long enough to tell Eloise's story (book version, which I haven't read, or not)  because I'm loving her. 

I was afraid for Eloise after this episode. She seemed so despondent. 

 

 

On 12/25/2020 at 6:53 PM, Door County Cherry said:
On 12/25/2020 at 4:11 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

If you turn the closed captioning on, it identifies the songs when they're played.

I have it on but I hadn't noticed that.  I'll try to pay closer attention. 

Heh, I always have captioning on, and yet I've only caught one song title in each of the 2 episodes I've now seen. I think that's a reflection on how well written, acted, choreographed, etc. everything is.
I really loved Daphne's dresses in this episode. 
And everything Penelope has worn in both episodes. Penelope is wonderful altogether. 

 

On 12/27/2020 at 3:59 AM, Aliferously said:

I think Marina will be shipped off to a nunnery or a home for unwed mothers once she starts showing.

A lot of Daphne's lovely "gowns" had waists just below the bosom, so I should think Marina could hide her pregnancy throughout.

 

On 12/26/2020 at 3:24 AM, bijoux said:

Congrats to Simon for restraining himself from putting a pillow over the dying prick's head. 

9 hours ago, Featherhat said:
11 hours ago, smartymarty said:

I didn't understand this either, or that Simon's "revenge" would be to never marry or create an heir only because having a long line of heirs was important to his father. The guy's dead. Don't make your own life more miserable when the guy isn't around anymore. Take your revenge by taking the title and the money and everything that goes with it, but maybe doing something charitable with it. Or adopt other children, as Lady Danbury effectively did for you.

This is completely true, but it's a fact that Simon had to discover for himself. That he shouldn't ruin his own life by focusing on what his father did or didn't want and let him rule him from beyond the grave. I think it's something that has to come from personal realisation, not that can be told to someone and they'll believe it. 

10 hours ago, bijoux said:
10 hours ago, ursula said:

Yes it's stupid but this is literally how vengeance works. Some old guy (too lazy to google it) said something like if you're going to seek vengeance you need to dig 2 graves - one for your enemy and one for yourself.

Confucius.

Heh, yeah, Confucius sure is "some old guy." Thanks, @bijoux, I would not have been able to place that. 
Anyway, yes, I think Simon needs to learn that revenge is not satisfying, and I think he will learn it because not smothering his father --even a little-- might be a bit of foreshadowing.
Simon's belittling his father's inability to speak seemed like enough revenge. 
While Simon's father was not a Father Knows Best  or My Three Sons kind of parent, he wasn't all that different from my parents who who born just before The Great Depression and were overly concerned with appearances and the importance of making an impression on those who mattered.

 

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There must have been something that didn't translate to the show about why Simon's father was so angry at his mother.  Was she unable to conceive for a long time?  Miscarriages?  A bunch of daughters we haven't seen?  

In the first episode I was convinced (and maybe it's still true) that Simon and Anthony had been lovers at college, which was why neither wanted to marry and why Anthony was so angry about Simon courting his sister.

Eloise and Penelope were hilarious trying to figure out where babies come from.  Cake?!?!

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15 hours ago, Featherhat said:

This is completely true, but it's a fact that Simon had to discover for himself. That he shouldn't ruin his own life by focusing on what his father did or didn't want and let him rule him from beyond the grave. I think it's something that has to come from personal realisation, not that can be told to someone and they'll believe it. 

 

So here's the scene I'd love to see:  Simon is finally revealing his reason for not wanting to marry to Anthony, and somehow Eloise overhears the conversation.  (They're walking in the garden, she's minding her own business on the swing.)  Eloise goes up to him, and, taking a slow drag on a cigarette, very calmly points out he's letting his father rule his life from the grave, with an air of "men.  how stupid."  Leaving Simon and Anthony just staring at each other in silence.  Anthony looks at Simon and says the 19th century equivalent of "She's right, bro, and you just got schooled by a 16 year old." 

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2 hours ago, Haleth said:

There must have been something that didn't translate to the show about why Simon's father was so angry at his mother.  Was she unable to conceive for a long time?  Miscarriages?  A bunch of daughters we haven't seen?  

I am guessing Simon's father probably wasn't very fertile and his fragile ego made it easy for him to blame his wife. It's always gotta be the woman's fault dontcha know. There has been no indication Simon has a bunch of sisters or illegitimate half siblings (of either sex) running around.

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1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I am guessing Simon's father probably wasn't very fertile and his fragile ego made it easy for him to blame his wife. It's always gotta be the woman's fault dontcha know. There has been no indication Simon has a bunch of sisters or illegitimate half siblings (of either sex) running around.

That would also explain why he never remarried.  Deep down he knew he was the problem because most dukes would not be content with just an heir.  

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1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

That would also explain why he never remarried.  Deep down he knew he was the problem because most dukes would not be content with just an heir.  

Exactly. If he thought it was just an unfortunate circumstance that his wife wasnt fertile, and only had the one son, after her death he would've married a younger woman at least at an attempt for a spare.

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5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:
2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I am guessing Simon's father probably wasn't very fertile and his fragile ego made it easy for him to blame his wife. It's always gotta be the woman's fault dontcha know. There has been no indication Simon has a bunch of sisters or illegitimate half siblings (of either sex) running around.

That would also explain why he never remarried.  Deep down he knew he was the problem because most dukes would not be content with just an heir.  

3 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Exactly. If he thought it was just an unfortunate circumstance that his wife wasnt fertile, and only had the one son, after her death he would've married a younger woman at least at an attempt for a spare.

Didn’t Simon’s father also remark something about having to be “the best” because of his race? I suppose lashing out——both physically and verbally and then through banishing and neglect——at both his wife and son was in a way how he expressed his own self-loathing for his infertility. But I doubt this series will have Simon go that deeply into psychological discovery, even if he does get over the I-will-never-give-my-father-an-heir-even-if-it-makes-me-miserable.

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32 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Didn’t Simon’s father also remark something about having to be “the best” because of his race? I suppose lashing out——both physically and verbally and then through banishing and neglect——at both his wife and son was in a way how he expressed his own self-loathing for his infertility.

Yes I could see that.

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The show (I think either Lady Danbury or Simon himself) stated that his mother had had several miscarriages and still births and was told it was dangerous for her to keep trying to have a baby, but she did it anyway because she was desperate to have an heir for her husband.  So Simon doesn't have any legitimate older siblings at all.  I have no idea why he didn't remarry and keep trying.

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22 minutes ago, ouinason said:

The show (I think either Lady Danbury or Simon himself) stated that his mother had had several miscarriages and still births and was told it was dangerous for her to keep trying to have a baby, but she did it anyway because she was desperate to have an heir for her husband.  So Simon doesn't have any legitimate older siblings at all.  I have no idea why he didn't remarry and keep trying.

I don't know if I'm conjuring this up or mixing it up with something else but somewhere in the back of my mind there's a line along the lines of, the Duke wanted an heir, the Duchess wanted a child. 

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10 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I don't know if I'm conjuring this up or mixing it up with something else but somewhere in the back of my mind there's a line along the lines of, the Duke wanted an heir, the Duchess wanted a child. 

Spoilery answer in 1x6.

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Well I think it's inevitable that Simon eventually has the hots for his "fake romance" Daphne. They're both young and good-looking. I do like however that Simon seems to like Daphne's secret feistiness.

I have no idea why Anthony was so fixated on Daphne marrying Berbrooke. The guy was a creep and Daphne is pretty, young and comes from a good family. She would have found someone more appealing on her own.

 

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The only reason I can think of is to establish Anthony’s bossiness and high handedness. But as for him as a character or Daphne, no, those actions don't make sense. Especially him blowing the lid when Daphne was beset with suitors. Like, let her chose between them or weed out the undesirables. There were at least 30 dudes there. Even if you discard 90% of them, that's still three as potential prospects. 

While Daphne is very low on my list of charavters I cared about, I appreciated that they showed her truly enjoying the attention she was getting. Good for her. 

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