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S01.E03: Do No Harm

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6 hours ago, Maysie said:

I'm tired of the eye-dabbing (I noticed that in one of the earlier episodes) and her breathy voice. I assume these are acting choices or direction, but for what purpose?

I can't remember the last time I saw her NOT talking in that breathy voice, and yes, I do find it irritating. But maybe that's her real voice? Or maybe an affectation she adopted years ago? 

I'm finding everyone's theories really interesting, but I'm not expecting any kind of brilliant solution to the story. Sadly, this isn't Rebecca or Gone Girl. (Unless it is, in which case I'll eat my words.) 

But I'll still watch. Quarantine is boring. 

Edited by Melina22
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So wait, if the cops have video footage of Grace at the scene of the crime, why are they so focused on Jonathan? She had means, opportunity, and motive as well, possibly even more than Jonathan, but while they do seem to be focused on her, she sure isn't the one in jail. 

So now that Grace is an official suspect, it actually makes me think that she didn't do it. In these murder mysteries, I almost always lean towards the "character we see around but are a supporting character with seemingly no real motive or connection to the murder" so...maybe Grace's lawyer friend? Was she sleeping with Jonathan too? 

So what exactly was Elena's husbands plan here? Just follow Grace around with the baby and then remind her that her husband banged his wife and maybe killed her? I guess he just wanted to face her, but it seemed really weird. Still not as weird as Elena though, her interactions with Grace, now knowing what we know, are even stranger, and they were pretty strange to begin with. Breastfeeding her baby in front of Grace now knowing that its Grace's husbands baby now seems like maybe she was flaunting the baby and being its mother in front of her, and maybe that's why she was showing off her naked body to her, to remind her of how sexy she is and how her husband is into her? But it also came off as kind of sarcastic and "what are you gonna do?" about things, and other times it was like she was trying to hit on her? I have no clue what her endgame was supposed to be before she died. 

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4 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I can't remember the last time I saw her NOT talking in that breathy voice, and yes, I do find it irritating. But maybe that's her real voice? Or maybe an affectation she adopted years ago? 

I was trying to recall if she spoke that way in Big Little Lies, which is the last thing I saw her in, but I can't remember. I liked the first season of that show, but I ended up hate-watching the last season and so my feelings about whatever Nicole Kidman did in that are probably skewed.

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Still not as weird as Elena though, her interactions with Grace, now knowing what we know, are even stranger, and they were pretty strange to begin with. Breastfeeding her baby in front of Grace now knowing that its Grace's husbands baby now seems like maybe she was flaunting the baby and being its mother in front of her, and maybe that's why she was showing off her naked body to her, to remind her of how sexy she is and how her husband is into her? But it also came off as kind of sarcastic and "what are you gonna do?" about things, and other times it was like she was trying to hit on her? I have no clue what her endgame was supposed to be before she died. 

Knowing what we know now about Elena's baby really does add a different dimension to that breastfeeding scene. I hadn't thought about it in that way. It's interesting to recall those scenes from the perspective we're getting as this story goes on. I have to say, I'll be disappointed if Elena was getting all fatal attraction about the relationship. I know that stuff happens, but it seems tired in 2020.

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4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So wait, if the cops have video footage of Grace at the scene of the crime, why are they so focused on Jonathan? She had means, opportunity, and motive as well, possibly even more than Jonathan, but while they do seem to be focused on her, she sure isn't the one in jail. 

They have video of her in the general area where the crime occurred around the time they think the crime happened.  It may be meaningful, but it also could just be a coincidence.  Presumably, if they had evidence tying her to the actual scene of the crime, she'd already have had to give DNA, fingerprints, etc. 

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I have no idea “who done it”, and feel like I could make a case for all of the characters.  But one thing that keeps sticking with me...when Donald Sutherland was talking to Nicole about how horrible Johnathan is. He mentioned him killing Elena with the hammer, and continuing to beat her with it, even after she was dead.  Did we know this? Was it released by the police?  I may have missed it, but my mind immediately went to “he (Sutherland) knows this bc he was there, and he was the one doing it.”

 

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On 11/10/2020 at 8:20 PM, Melina22 said:

I know they're under such intense pressure to look a certain way. I think how frustrating it would be to be incredibly rich and famous, but still have to monitor every morsel that goes into your mouth. Talk about a double edged sword! Hence my decision to forgo massive stardom so I can eat pizza and ketchup chips whenever I want. 😁

I know in some ways thin will always be in but I thought being a bit more voluptuous was accepted now a days, not that being curvaceous is an easy look to pull off, either.

So far I am enjoying the ride though I have no idea where they are going with this and yes a fugue state murder by Grace will feel like a cop out.

They might go the route of Jonathan seeming like a horrible fuckboy  and then we find out he was protecting his wife, because he saw Grace commit the murder. Of course this will not excuse all the awful things he has done but might help feed his hero complex.

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I am loving watching the show. But, the Grace character. Therapists that I have seen (not as a patient but just in general) are pretty much aware, and in tune with their surroundings. They are businesslike around other professionals. They are alert and with it. 

Grace is kind of loopy. She can barely string a few words together with the cops. She acted kind of Duh-oh with the muck lawyer. That lawyer is like I am talking about. Really there in the present. 

 

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Grace is such a dope to go to the cops without a lawyer.  Also, Hugh Grant showed a real propensity for violence at the prison.  Maybe he's not so namby pamby.

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21 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Breastfeeding her baby in front of Grace now knowing that its Grace's husbands baby now seems like maybe she was flaunting the baby and being its mother in front of her, and maybe that's why she was showing off her naked body to her, to remind her of how sexy she is and how her husband is into her? But it also came off as kind of sarcastic and "what are you gonna do?" about things, and other times it was like she was trying to hit on her? I have no clue what her endgame was supposed to be before she died. 

Maybe Elena had cancer and was hoping someone would bludgeon her to death because she didn't want chemo.

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On 11/11/2020 at 2:46 AM, endure said:

I do think some or most of the acting is not great in this show but it could be a combination of acting, dialogue and directing among others things.  I am hoping it does all come together in the end, and I will keep watching to find out but I wouldn’t recommend this show.

Of all of the cast, I think Hugh Grant is killing it (no pun intended) with his portrayal of Jonathan. 

Matilda De Angelis as Elena is also very good. Is she vulnerable, is she aggressive, is she an obsessed stalker or a lovelorn mistress? The way she plays her, Elena could be any of those things and it is totally believable.

Kidman is just okay. I don't think the story and script are doing her any favors - possibly the direction, too, I don't know how to gauge that. I guess "increasingly dazed and confused" would be hard to play, but especially difficult if one's face lacks the ability to form expressions. Maybe that's why as this goes on, her hair seems to obscure more and more of her face.

Sutherland's character is so enigmatic that I can't tell whether he's phoning it in or putting forth a virtuoso performance.

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9 minutes ago, endure said:

I just read an article saying the townhouse the family lives in is currently listed for sale for $30 million.

Wow...and that is pandemic pricing...it would have probably been more a year ago.

I guess if anyone had any doubts....Grace is rich, rich, rich, and then some.

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On 11/8/2020 at 9:15 PM, Norma Desmond said:

So the theory that Grace might have these fugue states where she does things she does not rememeber after might be true... hmmmm.

The fugue state angle has been floating around in my mind the past three episodes and I agree it could be and would be very intriguing. However, Grace kind of dashes that possibility when she right away says, "I was walking, I go out walking" or something like that, which bespeaks a knowledge she was in the area and not the deliciously confused affect that would occur if it was a fugue state.

On 11/8/2020 at 9:38 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

Henry looks like he had a growth spurt from last episode. 
The doctor whom Grace spoke really provided some interesting insight into Jonathan’s narcissism savior complex. I’ve seen that actor is so many things but can’t even name one off top of my head.

I thought the same thing, Henry is definitely taller.

That actor that plays the doctor (Stuart?) looks very familiar to me, too. And what he was saying about the God complex reminded me of another movie where Nicole Kidman played a woman married to a doctor, "Malice," with Alec Baldwin, where he actually said, "I AM God."

On 11/8/2020 at 10:07 PM, Bulldog said:

No offense to anyone who lives in NYC, but aren't murders kind of common place there?  Would this really be attracting this kind of media attention?  

I remember him from The Practice and an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond where everyone thought he might be Frank's illegitimate son.  Man, I'm old.    

I live in NYC and back in the 80s this type of thing would definitely be getting a lot of coverage but nobody really watches local news anymore so nowadays I kind of doubt it.

Who was in the Practice? 

Edited by ReviewX
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2 minutes ago, ReviewX said:

I thought the same thing, Henry is definitely taller.

That actor that plays the doctor (Stuart?) looks very familiar to me, too. And what he was saying about the God complex reminded me of another movie where Nicole Kidman played a woman married to a doctor, "Malice," with Alec Baldwin, where he actually said, "I AM God."

My guess is that his main attraction to Elena (beyond that she was very attractive) was that she was a woman that needed him and he got to be the "Big Man" around her.

Grace is an educated professional who comes from a very wealthy family. He can never be the "Big Man" around her in the same way, even if he is (supposedly) a well respected doctor before his dismissal.

He is a shit heel. 

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On 11/8/2020 at 11:26 PM, Melina22 said:

What kind of odd accent was Hugh's first lawyer using? I'm pretty sure he doesn't usually talk like that. 

Would detectives really accost someone and ask questions in the middle of a museum? Did they have to pay admission? 😁

I was trying to figure out that accent too and I didn't know what it was. Which reminds me, Nicole's accent slipped out when she said the word "ascertain." 

The museum scene was great for dramatic effect but like all detectives-showing-up-casually-to-question-people, it just doesn't happen that way.

On 11/9/2020 at 12:28 AM, Kiss my mutt said:

Would private school cost $500,000? Or was that supposed to cover the entirety of tuition until graduation for the Alvez boy? I was surprised to learn Grace and Jonathan could afford tuition because earlier it was surmised they wouldn’t have made enough in their respective careers. 

I think it was said earlier on the show that tuition is $50,000 a year but Jonathan apparently went to Grace's dad and said he needed money and so he just gave him a check for $500,000, presumably to cover a lot of things. I guess we are to assume he told Grace's dad he was fired from his job? If so, why would Dad allow this to be kept from Grace?

On 11/9/2020 at 2:53 AM, Razzberry said:

More taxpayer waste - doctors with a Manhattan apartment shouldn't qualify for a public defender.

Having been a public defender in NYC I can tell you that no way would he qualify. And even if he did, a private attorney would swoop down in an instant and offer to take the case at cost to get the publicity.

On 11/9/2020 at 10:11 AM, heatherchandler said:

I thought it was Taub too, but when I saw what Taub looks like now, I realized it is not.  

Why is this actor not listed in the end credits I wonder? Is it because he's a featured actor and listed in the beginning?

On 11/9/2020 at 11:28 AM, Bulldog said:

I think people are discussing the daughter being sick from when Elena's husband confronted Grace.  He told Grace that he heard she had been asking about the baby and Grace replied that she had heard that she was sick (or she might have said not well).   I took it to mean she heard that she might have the type of thing most kids that age get and not something major, like cancer.  

It confused me too in that scene but it is not the daughter who was sick and they were not talking about the sick son. Grace was talking about Elena being sick, i.e. sick in the head.

On 11/9/2020 at 11:41 AM, BingeyKohan said:

What are folks' thoughts on the timeline of the night Elena died? Jonathan leaves the fund-raiser to go meet Elena at her studio, they fight and have sex, he leaves. Is this when he goes home and cries and has sex with Grace, then when he leaves early in the morning (after saying goodbye to Henry) that's when goes back to Elena's studio and finds her dead, before disappearing for his faux Cleveland trip?

I was thinking if he is the murderer, he killed her and then went home and had sex with Grace, but somehow cleaned up the blood first?

Here is one thing I don't get. In the car on the way to the fundraiser (and possibly before in the morning when Grace was taking a shower) he mentioned going to Cleveland the following day. So did he pre-plan to kill Elena the night of the fundraiser and then have a semi-alibi because he'd be out of town the next day? This conflicts with his confession to Grace that he left the fundraiser, went to Elena's had sex, left, came back(?) and she was dead. I would like to think these loose ends would be tied up but I might be asking too much.

On 11/9/2020 at 12:44 PM, Bulldog said:

Ha!  That certainly seems to be the case. 

Of course, Grace seems to spend A LOT of time just wandering the streets of NYC.  No wonder they seem to cross paths so often. 

Interestingly she always seems to have just come out of Central Park at Fifth Avenue.

On 11/9/2020 at 1:07 PM, Quita said:

I'm curious what happens to the baby. Does she stay with Mr. Alvez who isn't the father? Would Grace get her while Jonathan is in prison, not that she wants her? Will Henry know his half-sister?

When Grace was meeting with Alvez I sensed she was angry with him but also trying not to excite him lest he get upset and throw the baby out of anger that it is not his.

On 11/9/2020 at 1:59 PM, BingeyKohan said:

My take was this was more of Grace's little flights of fancy where she imagines how things COULD have gone down but doesn't necessarily imply it's how things DID go down. Like the hammer to Elena's head vision.

Yes I am seeing a pattern here of where Grace imagines things she hopes have happened, such as when she wants to believe Jonathan is a good guy so she pictures these scenes of him acting empathetically with sick kids, and now she wants to believe he's innocent of the murder, so she imagines Mr. Alvez  skulking around and angrily seeing Jonathan and Elena having sex, although one would think she would repress or blur out that part.

On 11/10/2020 at 12:55 PM, Quita said:

Does anyone remember at the auction, was Sylvia the one who pointed out to Grace that Elena was staring at her? I can't remember if it was her, but it seemed odd she would do that considering what she knew at the time because Jonathan had retained her. Maybe it was another friend.

I rewatched that segment myself because I was curious about that and no, it was the other blond friend who said that.

While I was watching I saw that Jonathan did not appear to be hiding anything or feel awkward when Elena arrived which, whether or not he was guilty of murder, one would think he would be since he has admitted having the affair.

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On 11/9/2020 at 12:28 AM, Kiss my mutt said:

I always thought Nicole had naturally curly hair like she did when she first started making movies. Every show she’s been on with straight hair looks like a wig, like in Big Little Lies. 
A lot of her roles seem to require measured, lack of affect with her speech and “expressions” though the Botox and fillers are making her seem robotic. Her Australian accent always creeps into her voice when playing American roles. You would think she’d be better by now of course she may not even work with a voice coach. 
I don’t think I’ve ever seen Hugh Grant play an American that I can recall. 

Would private school cost $500,000? Or was that supposed to cover the entirety of tuition until graduation for the Alvez boy? I was surprised to learn Grace and Jonathan could afford tuition because earlier it was surmised they wouldn’t have made enough in their respective careers. 

It’s a wig. It’s been mentioned in the media she suffers from hair damage and loss due to years of straightening  and, from what looks like to me, some sort of female alopecia. Yes Botox and the doll like smoothness of her face is often distracting but I do think she’s a good actress. 
I thought  they said tuition was 50,000 a year?

Haven’t read all the posts on this show has anyone mentioned the beach house and the shore itself I assume this is supposed to be in the Hamptons? Well that’s not what the shoreline of Long Island looks like. They could have done just a bit of research! Stupid mistake on the part of HBO. 

On 11/10/2020 at 12:28 PM, Melina22 said:

You could be right, given that in the first episode, before the murder, her face seemed fairly relaxed and expressive. For her, at least. I hope that once the show is over, all of this will make sense, and we'll be excited to rewatch. 

This show is really bringing out my shallow side. Watching Nicole, in addition to wondering how some actors keep their skin so smooth and youthful looking, I find myself wondering how so many of the older actresses stay so extremely thin.

I know lots of women are naturally thin. I have friends who are, and they eat normally. But they can't all be naturally thin. And they can't all have eating disorders or be on drugs or smoke. (I assume.) I'm just super curious how they typically do it, and how hard it is for them. Just once I'd like to read an honest article about it. 

Last thing... it's amazing how many people in this show are faking an American accent! Nicole, the muck lawyer, the pre-muck lawyer. Hugh is allowed to be British. Donald is Canadian - does that count? American actors must get so frustrated.

Extremely expensive wigs. Combo of plastic surgery, other dermatological procedures, hormones, A personal trainer, a personal chef, healthy eating,  a very very very high end lifestyle and throw in some good genes. It is frustrating for the average woman of the same age though😳  I am enjoying the show and Nicole’s wardrobe is making me extremely jealous and pissed I wasn’t born filthy Rich🙂

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A personal chef... that's the dream! A personal trainer on the other hand would still require a lot of work. I'd rather have an on-call masseuse. 

I guess if you don't have the burning desire and ambition to get and stay famous necessary to motivate years of diet and exercise, you aren't a celebrity in the first place. Nicole and others must be very self-disciplined. But I've always wondered how people so rigidly disciplined and hard working can also be so creative and emotional in their roles. 

I just realized a new episode comes out today. Yay! I'm hoping for a few answers. 

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It bugs me that in the same breath, Jonathan can claim that he realized Elena was becoming obsessive, fixating on Grace, joining her gym, joining the committee, but yeah, he had sex with her again the night of the fundraiser.

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6 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

It bugs me that in the same breath, Jonathan can claim that he realized Elena was becoming obsessive, fixating on Grace, joining her gym, joining the committee, but yeah, he had sex with her again the night of the fundraiser.

Yep. Who was obsessed with who?

Or was he leading her on, promising to leave Grace? That seems more likely to me. He followed her when she left the fundraiser because he knew she was upset by seeing him there with his wife. He wanted to pacify her. Hell, maybe he loved her. But he needed her to stay in her lane and be quiet. It all makes for great motive for murder.

Jonathan is, to me, the most interesting character in this story. And as I said before, I think Hugh Grant is giving a very, very strong portrayal of him.

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On 11/9/2020 at 12:28 AM, Kiss my mutt said:

Her Australian accent always creeps into her voice when playing American roles. You would think she’d be better by now of course she may not even work with a voice coach. 
I don’t think I’ve ever seen Hugh Grant play an American that I can recall. 

I'm intrigued that they aren't making any effort to affect tony NY accents at all; not for Nicole, not for anyone, and odd considering Donald Sutherland has done it before (6 Degrees). 

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56 minutes ago, FemmyV said:

I'm intrigued that they aren't making any effort to affect tony NY accents at all; not for Nicole, not for anyone, and odd considering Donald Sutherland has done it before (6 Degrees). 

Aside from the public defender accent, the assistant district attorney had one I could not place either.

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On 11/15/2020 at 7:50 AM, chediavolo said:

Extremely expensive wigs. Combo of plastic surgery, other dermatological procedures, hormones, A personal trainer, a personal chef, healthy eating,  a very very very high end lifestyle and throw in some good genes. It is frustrating for the average woman of the same age though😳  I am enjoying the show and Nicole’s wardrobe is making me extremely jealous and pissed I wasn’t born filthy Rich🙂

Years ago my dad and I were discussing how well Kim Cattrell held up; I said I'd never looked that good in my life. He made a wonderful point that I've kept with me as I age: it's her job. I would not want to be famous or have the pressure to maintain my looks to that extent, but as he said, that's all they really have to do. The Nicoles and Kims of the world have personal assistants to run errands and shop for them, chefs to cook for them, stylists to pick out the proper clothing for them, people to keep house for them. So they have time (and money) to invest in staying fit and looking their best.

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On 11/9/2020 at 1:10 AM, DakotaLavender said:

I see endless posts about Nicole's hair after almost each episode. She has straight baby fine hair. I am fairly sure she is wearing a wig. 

And they certainly are making her look suspicious in many ways. All of them look shady. The fact that they showed Grace on the street in this episode 3 tells me she did not do it.  I still now think it was Elena's husband.

I actually hate these "mysteries" that are drawn out over weeks. There is something to be said about Amazon and Netflix who drop the entire series and let viewers binge watch. This weekly style is old, frustrating, and tiresome. I like to watch the last episode and know who did it and then back watch it. I think it is interesting to watch the lies and intrigue and detective work along the way if I know who is guilty. It's a great format for me. 

 

 

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On 11/13/2020 at 11:35 PM, endure said:

I just read an article saying the townhouse the family lives in is currently listed for sale for $30 million.

I wonder what Donald Sutherland's cozy nook goes for.

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5 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Wig or not, I was glad to see her wear her hair the way it was when she first hit the scene. I’ve always liked her and Andie MacDowell’s locks.  

Me, too. It may not be all her hair but it’s close to her “natural” look.

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1 hour ago, DakotaLavender said:

That picture was taken 30 years ago. She does not have that hair anymore. I am convinced it is a wig. 

It may be a wig but in my opinion it's a terrible one. The top is full but the ends are very straggly. I think the one she wore in Big Little Lies was much more flattering.

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On 11/10/2020 at 10:28 AM, Melina22 said:

Watching Nicole, in addition to wondering how some actors keep their skin so smooth and youthful looking, I find myself wondering how so many of the older actresses stay so extremely thin.

I know lots of women are naturally thin. I have friends who are, and they eat normally. But they can't all be naturally thin. And they can't all have eating disorders or be on drugs or smoke. (I assume.) I'm just super curious how they typically do it, and how hard it is for them. Just once I'd like to read an honest article about it.

I always remember an interview I read with Gwen Stefani years ago. Some magazine asked her the typical "How do you stay in great shape? Tell us how you get those abs!" type question and she said bluntly that she was always hungry. It made me so sad.

On 11/16/2020 at 8:19 AM, Maysie said:

Years ago my dad and I were discussing how well Kim Cattrell held up; I said I'd never looked that good in my life. He made a wonderful point that I've kept with me as I age: it's her job. I would not want to be famous or have the pressure to maintain my looks to that extent, but as he said, that's all they really have to do. The Nicoles and Kims of the world have personal assistants to run errands and shop for them, chefs to cook for them, stylists to pick out the proper clothing for them, people to keep house for them. So they have time (and money) to invest in staying fit and looking their best.

On a related note, I remember that after Sarah Jessica Parker had her baby, there were tons of articles praising her for losing the baby weight so quickly and she made sure to point out that she had the benefit of a personal chef and trainer to hasten the process. She also said that losing baby weight that quickly is not normal and that she did it because Sex and the City had accommodated her pregnancy (cutting one season extremely short) and she knew that everyone was waiting for her so they could start shooting the final season.

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On 11/9/2020 at 9:02 AM, Mackey said:

I’ve not once, not for one second, thought about or noticed anything “frozen” about Kidman’s face. I have thought about daddy’s money and how telling daughter he gave it to husband would have affected whether or not there was a murder. 

Me either. I don't think her face is "frozen." I think she is trying to look "controlled." I think that is by direction and that is annoying to me.

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On 11/9/2020 at 11:11 AM, heatherchandler said:

No!  

This is her in younger days with her original hair.  And original face.  

A171DC05-025E-4515-A53F-4CCF13804778.jpeg

I wasn’t sure if this was her natural hair or an ‘80s perm...I actually thought her face looks more like her younger self that it has in a while.

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This show is still fun to me, because I really truly don't know whodunnit!

Definitely think the blonde attorney friend played by Lily Rabe is involved somehow - I think she also may have also been having an affair with Jonathan. Donald Sutherland is pretty sketchy too - as I suspected, he has a connection. I'm wondering if either Jonathan OR Elena had been blackmailing him for money. And how come he was hovering around outside Elena's apartment? I just love Donald Sutherland. That is all.

Although his brown eyes distract me to no end, the boy playing their son is so, so very good as an actor. The scene at the jail where he crumples and tells Jonathan "we aren't a family anymore" just knocked me right in the feels. And Hugh is doing an amazing job as well - I'm finding myself rooting for him in spite of myself even though his character is a total scumbag.

The actors playing the public defender & the high-priced attorney are also both kicking all kinds of ass. Hoping to see more of them in the final episodes. 

Because I held off on watching this right away (I mistakenly thought it was some sort of a political thriller, and those generally bore me), I only have to hold on until Sunday to see the final episode! It must've been torture for those who had to wait for weekly episode drops! I think whoever the culprit winds up being will probably ultimately disappoint me.

 

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On 11/15/2020 at 10:13 PM, ReviewX said:

Aside from the public defender accent, the assistant district attorney had one I could not place either.

Sounded vaguely European, lots of immigrants in NY 

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On 11/15/2020 at 2:25 AM, ReviewX said:

Here is one thing I don't get. In the car on the way to the fundraiser (and possibly before in the morning when Grace was taking a shower) he mentioned going to Cleveland the following day. So did he pre-plan to kill Elena the night of the fundraiser and then have a semi-alibi because he'd be out of town the next day? This conflicts with his confession to Grace that he left the fundraiser, went to Elena's had sex, left, came back(?) and she was dead. I would like to think these loose ends would be tied up but I might be asking too much.

My thought was that he was either going to go away with Elena (either permanently or just for a few days) so he planted the seed about the conference.  Then he went to see Elena after the fundraiser and either killed her or found her dead.  He spent the night at his home and decided he needed to disappear so he left his phone and went to the beach house.

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Initially I thought Grace did it , but now my husband thinks it’s their son so he kind of put it in my head that it is .. but watching this episode , they’re spending a lot of time on her lawyer friend and I’m thinking she’s suspicious . I think it’s everyone  🤷🏼‍♀️ 

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This does move slowly.

I tried and just cannot see the frozen face and puffy eyes everyone is talking about. she looks great to me. I’m  a few years older ar 56 and 3 years ago I sure didn’t have her jawline (and If she had a neck lift more power to her)

what is the museum dad sits at? Is it the frick?

isnt Harlem on the west side? I live in Jersey but when there I’ve always taken the a uptown and there’s even a song about it (you... can take the a train...)

the a is a west side highway so how does she get there? Are we to believe she walks across the park? Or so they live on the UPPER west side??

I too will be annoyed if Grace is withholding. I’d like her to be telling the truth.

I doubt Jonathan did it - too obvious- and hate the idea of the kid.

and she did not bludgeon herself.

so, no clue.

 

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18 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

I tried and just cannot see the frozen face and puffy eyes everyone is talking about. she looks great to me. I’m  a few years older at 56 and 3 years ago I sure didn’t have her jawline (and if she had a neck lift more power to her).

Isn’t Harlem on the west side? 

Maybe it’s because we have seen the really frightening cosmetic surgery on Ramona Singer’s friends on The Real Housewives of NYC, @lucindabelle, but I think Nicole’s work is excellent. 

I think someone else posted that Elena lived in Spanish Harlem. 

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On 12/31/2020 at 8:06 PM, hoodooznoodooz said:

Maybe it’s because we have seen the really frightening cosmetic surgery on Ramona Singer’s friends on The Real Housewives of NYC, @lucindabelle, but I think Nicole’s work is excellent. 

I think someone else posted that Elena lived in Spanish Harlem. 

Which is also on the west side.

 

I assumed wealthy doctor lived on UES as they tend to do in NYC (nearer the hospitals). Anyone?

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10 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Which is also on the west side.

 

I assumed wealthy doctor lived on UES as they tend to do in NYC (nearer the hospitals). Anyone?

Early in the show it's established they live in the East 60s (64th I think) near Fifth Avenue. It is strange that often she is seen coming out of Central Park when she is supposedly coming from either Elena's or her father's who are both on the East Side as well. (Spanish Harlem is actually on the East Side).

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14 hours ago, Aqua said:

Early in the show it's established they live in the East 60s (64th I think) near Fifth Avenue. It is strange that often she is seen coming out of Central Park when she is supposedly coming from either Elena's or her father's who are both on the East Side as well. (Spanish Harlem is actually on the East Side).

Ok you’re right I just looked it up. But it also says Spanish Harlem begins at 96th street which makes sense as Harlem is also way uptown. We’re supposed to believe she walks 60 blocks round trip? At night? In heels? 

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6 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

We’re supposed to believe she walks 60 blocks round trip? At night? In heels?

Don’t forget the coats! All the gorgeous, ridiculously expensive coats! 

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9 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

Ok you’re right I just looked it up. But it also says Spanish Harlem begins at 96th street which makes sense as Harlem is also way uptown. We’re supposed to believe she walks 60 blocks round trip? At night? In heels? 

I think in one episode they said Elena lived at 103rd. That would be 39 blocks, about 2 miles, 40 minutes, and doable. But in heels? Not me anyway!

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I see so many shows where they meet in a diner/restaurant and one person orders nothing.  Sometimes both people just get a glass of water.   Does that actually happen in real life?   Why not just order a cup of coffee or tea?

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12 minutes ago, oreally said:

I see so many shows where they meet in a diner/restaurant and one person orders nothing.  Sometimes both people just get a glass of water.   Does that actually happen in real life?   Why not just order a cup of coffee or tea?

Not to mention that people don't usually meet in restaurants for a quick discussion. They pick up the phone or send an email. But it's TV.

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