S03.E03: People of Earth

[paulvdb]

Quote

Burnham and the Discovery crew travel to Earth to learn the fate of Federation in their absence.

 

[paigow]

Medical science has made excellent progress in 900 years...Anybody can be a host...

Stamets performs critical repairs while bleeding, but spills his guts to a stranger... Georgiou would have simply beat the truth out of Adira

If Burnham is not interested in Book, some of her friends definitely will gladly take over...

[Kromm]

Oh lord.  The girl is a new version of Wesley Crusher.  Incompatible Trill Symbiont or not, it's the REST of her character. Oh.  My.  God.

I had this nice theory how she might also be Dax (because they went through the trouble to inform us that she isn't able to communicate with the Symbiont and so it could have been a nice twist)... until I realized that "Tal" is definitely a Symbiont name and not simply the name of the previous host.  So... no Dax.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Kromm

[paigow]

4 hours ago, Kromm said:

until I realized that "Tal" is definitely a Symbiont name and not simply the name of the previous host.  So... no Dax.

Tal was also a minor TOS Romulan Sub-Commander [The Enterprise Incident]... Since the Romulans of the Picard era infiltrated Starfleet easily, maybe Admiral Tal was a Romulan...

[Kromm]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

Tal was also a minor TOS Romulan Sub-Commander [The Enterprise Incident]... Since the Romulans of the Picard era infiltrated Starfleet easily, maybe Admiral Tal was a Romulan...

We didn't get to see a spelling, but it's worth noting that a Romulan, especially if disguised as a Vulcan, would likely be T'al instead of Tal.

They really have made it seem as if Admiral Whateverfirstname Tal was a recognized, known Trill though. Just one stranded apart from any other Trill to assume the Tal Symbiote. 

[Chit Chat]

I enjoyed this episode.  I'm just glad that it didn't take 5+ episodes to reunite the crew!  Given the doomsday nature of "The Burn,"  I wasn't expecting to see earth looking so good.  I was half expecting some apocalyptic scene.  

[starri]

4 hours ago, Kromm said:

We didn't get to see a spelling, but it's worth noting that a Romulan, especially if disguised as a Vulcan, would likely be T'al instead of Tal.

It was "Tal" in the closed captions.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if we do end up seeing the current Dax host.  If you do the math, the symbiont was at least 300 years old when it was Joined to Jadzia.

[thuganomics85]

Heh, even Booker ends up stumbling over his words, when getting grilled by Georgiou!  She certainly has that effect on people!  Fun little scene right there.  Georgiou really does have a kind of motherly instinct when it comes to Michael.  And by that, I mean a mother who would probably break every bone in someone's body, if they ever did her child wrong!

Blu del Barrio did great work here (especially for a first timer), but Adira really can fall into Wesley Crusher territory, if they aren't too careful.  But I do like the idea that Adira is a mixture of a human and a Trill Symbiont.  The Trill were always one of my favorite alien races, and I always felt they were never used enough, outside of Dax on Deep Space Nine.

Hey, a story that ends with Discovery playing peacemaker by having two waring factions just has it out!  That's almost old-school Trek right there!  Can't say that I'm surprised that Earth would become an isolationist planet after the Burn.  Always great seeing Christopher Heyerdahl (Wen) as well!

Have to imagine that there was a reason we saw Detmer question Saru's orders in front of everyone.  Something is going to happen with her.

So, poor Grudge had to hang out on Booker's ship throughout all of this?  Let the poor cat mingle with the rest!  I'm sure Georgiou and Grudge would get along fantastically! 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

The Trill were always one of my favorite alien races, and I always felt they were never used enough, outside of Dax on Deep Space Nine.

TNG Beverley fell in love with a Trill when it was a hot dude host, then got all homophobic when he got killed and the replacement host was a hot babe...

Edited October 29, 2020 by paigow

[Kromm]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Blu del Barrio did great work here (especially for a first timer), but Adira really can fall into Wesley Crusher territory, if they aren't too careful. 

I wasn't simply joking that she was Wesley-like. I really smell similar intentions on the character. The supergenius kid allowed to function like a normal crew member, because they're so special. Also one with a "destiny", which is shit they pulled with Wesley as well. 

Less Wesleylike, I do see a few other components. Burnham has only been in this time for a year, and not in this region, and Book looks like he'll be away for a bunch of episodes, so this kid is being slotted into the "Native guide" mode.  But conversely, also the outsider they explain THEIR shit to. 

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

I'm sure Georgiou and Grudge would get along fantastically! 

Two loveable predators, sure. 

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Kromm said:

I wasn't simply joking that she was Wesley-like. I really smell similar intentions on the character. The supergenius kid allowed to function like a normal crew member, because they're so special. Also one with a "destiny", which is shit they pulled with Wesley as well. 

In fairness Wesley was supposed to draw in and inspire young people and —as irritating as many found him—I’ve heard many attribute their careers in science to him. 
 

and even if she isn’t consciously communicating with the symbiote she might be getting some subconscious older than her years behavior from the association with Tal. 

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 

So, poor Grudge had to hang out on Booker's ship throughout all of this?  Let the poor cat mingle with the rest!  I'm sure Georgiou and Grudge would get along fantastically! 

I don’t know about Grudge and Tilly. 

[Maverick]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

TNG Beverley fell in love with a Trill when it was a hot dude host, then got all homophobic when he got killed and the replacement host was a hot babe...

 There's never been an on screen explanation for the differences between Odan and the rest of the Trill race as later depicted.  Some have claimed they're just a different race of Trill (and some novels have tried much more convoluted explanations like the Klingon change) but there's simply no way to reconcile the two.  You could get away with that explanation for the forehead bumps vs. spots and maybe the transporting thing, but it doesn't explain the Federation being so unfamiliar with them--since, you know, they've been Federation members for decades--or why the host is completely submerged and the symbiont is the actual entity, completely opposite of how're later portrayed.  The easiest way to look at it is to just accept that it's a production issue and pretend the race in The Host was something other than the Trill.    I wish they'd just do a Star Wars remastered and dub over a different race's name.  Better yet, I'd be fine with them exorcising the whole episode from canon because don't even get me started on Beverly ok with screwing her good, platonic friend Will Riker while some slug is in control of body but getting icked out when her slug boyfriend shows up as a woman.

 The DS9 writers freely admit (and even reveled in) the fact they were making up the Trill species as they went along so I can't wait to see how they're going to be redone in this incarnation.  

[KimberStormer]

Tilly: We never had a chance to say goodbye to our families! *sob*

Me: Actually Tilly you spent literally two hours saying goodbye to your families while the evil robots were coming and almost got Stamets killed because of it

Speaking of two hours, that whole scene with Tilly and Michael!  Endless and awkward.  Some very weird pacing in this episode.  The Stamets Adopts a Child scene was also super strange, particularly with its weird comedy music, like something out of TOS.  Another funny thing to me, having just watched last season's finale recently, was how everyone was like "you want us to risk our lives for the greater good, Saru??!" when it felt like every single episode Captain Pike would give a rousing speech about how WE ARE STARFLEET NOW IT'S TIME TO PROBABLY DIE FOR THE GREATER GOOD and everyone would like, give a standing ovation in the hallway.

Overall, though, I liked it!  An Extremely Star Trek resolution here.  The first episode I ever saw, when I was like 8, was The Corbomite Maneuver, and that has always remained my standard for a Star Trek ending; the scary guy turns out to be not so scary, we all talk it out, happily ever after.  This season seems to have really found the perfect balance between being Gritty Realistic For the 21st Century and that classic Trek optimism.  And I will never complain about a gratuitous shirtless Book scene.  

[UnoAgain]

Enjoyed it.. I liked tge new character so far... Them being a human host for a trill is interesting 

[tennisgurl]

Michael reunites with the crew, and while its nice and everyone is happy to see each other, its also on the awkward side, as Michael has apparently gotten used to the future world a bit more while doing Han Solo stuff with Book, and its weird for her to be back on the ship. Its awkward for now, but something I guess you just need to get used to again. 

So now we have a brand new Wesley Crusher to call our own! I have always liked the Trill so its cool seeing one around, even if it being merged with a human seems kind of weird (I guess future medical technology really can do wonders) but I am already raising an eyebrow at "precocious teen genius can become a crew member before they have whatever the future equivalent of a learners permeant is just because they are that special" considering how well that worked out last time. At least this time some of her genius comes from the Trill symbiote inside of her, and we do need someone from this time to be around if Book is going to do his own thing and then come back later, so I will keep an open mind. 

Georgiou has that effect on everyone Book, don't worry. I always really like her scenes with Michael, she is actually not a bad mentor towards her, in a very morally dark kind of way. She is great at reading people, and that can be a real benefit as Michael often struggles a bit with expressing herself. 

The main plot was pretty good, the main cast settling a conflict between waring factions is pretty classic Trek. I am curious if eventually they will have to deal with some of the crew being more depressed about everything, or even resentful of Michael and the other command staff for taking them to the future. They all volunteered, but maybe some people feel like they got caught up in the heat of the moment and looking back on it, leaving behind their friends and family and life to go to a crappy future where the organization they gave their lives to is a shell of its former self, everyone else they knew is long dead, and there is no record of them even existing. They don't even know Michael very well as a person beyond being one of their leaders, might not even fully understand the intricacies of what happened, I wouldn't be surprised that some people might resent her, or would at least end up regretting their choice to stay on Discovery. 

[Quark]

Another great episode, although I'm at a loss with the whole human kid trill symbiont who has the memories of the Admiral that hailed the Discovery? Do I have that right?

[Llywela]

Saru is still my favourite. And I really, really want one of those personal transporter thingies!

16 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Have to imagine that there was a reason we saw Detmer question Saru's orders in front of everyone.  Something is going to happen with her.

So, poor Grudge had to hang out on Booker's ship throughout all of this?  Let the poor cat mingle with the rest!  I'm sure Georgiou and Grudge would get along fantastically! 

Detmer's problem still comes across as PTSD to me - here even more so than last week. She questioned Saru because he was actively positioning the ship to be fired upon, which freaked Detmer out because she no longer trusts the ship to protect her in such situations. I think being injured again going through the time wormhole triggered PTSD from the Battle of the Binary Stars.

And LOL because the moment Book commented on Grudge still being on his ship, which he wasn't allowed to set foot on without permission, I was worried about the poor cat being left alone with no one to feed it!

17 minutes ago, Quark said:

Another great episode, although I'm at a loss with the whole human kid trill symbiont who has the memories of the Admiral that hailed the Discovery? Do I have that right?

At a loss how? You just summed it up perfectly. There was a Trill Starfleet Admiral on Earth, trapped far from the Trill homeworld - the symbiote had probably been stuck on Earth since the Burn. Humans are not ideal hosts for Trill symbiotes, but will do in a pinch, so when the Admiral died, the symbiote (for whatever reason) was given to the kid, Adira. The joining isn't perfect, because humans aren't fully compatible, so she can't fully access the memories of past hosts, but she knows enough to want to try to find the rest of the Federation with Discovery - possibly because the symbiote really wants to find a proper Trill host. So that's why she has joined the crew.

For the record, they called her 'she' on-screen, so I'm going with that for now, but I understood this character was to be non-binary, so we'll see how that plays out going forward.

[marinw]

I’m going to go out on a limb and compare Season Three of STD with Season Three of TNG: Season Three is where both these shows got their poop in a group and became a better, more cohesive show.

I would have rolled my eyes into the ceiling if Michael become Captain after being absent for a year. It’s so nice to have o non-human captain considering the diversity of life in the galaxy.

Loved the reveal that Scary Bug Alien was in fact a desperate human .Good casting, dude looks like he hasn’t eaten in weeks.

Edited October 30, 2020 by marinw

[MissLucas]

I was looking forward to Book meeting with Georgiou and the scene did not disappoint, he!

I really hope that new Burnham does not simply revert back to old Burnham after a couple of episodes. The character is so much enjoyable with a sense of humor and a streak of unpredictability. Georgiou approves too!

I must be one of the few people on this planet who were not annoyed by Wesley Crusher. All I could think of when Adira had revealed her true identity was that the admiral was going to pull rank and Saru would lose the captain's seat. Since I consider that seat ST's version of the DADA teacher's position at Hogwarts I'm worried about him. 

While I appreciated Georgiou's -ahem- help to speed along diplomacy it felt a bit weird that future earth's tech was never able to scan Wen or his ships. After all Owosekun had no problems detecting feline life-signs on Book's ship using 900 years old technology.

Edited October 30, 2020 by MissLucas

[CarpeFelis]

I don’t mind the new kid, and even kind of enjoyed her interactions with Stamets. But WHY do Book and Grudge (aka She is a Queen!) have to go elsewhere, dammit?!

[paigow]

2 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

But WHY do Book and Grudge (aka She is a Queen!) have to go elsewhere, dammit?!

To antagonize / con more aliens, that give him a reason for asking Discovery to save him...

[catsitter]

I was beginning to wonder whether I had just imagined that the Starfleet guy in episode 1 said there were two Starfleet ships in the quadrant (or similar) but then they did finally mention another ship in this episode, so why has Burnham apparently not got in touch with one of those ships over the course of a year???

[Stardancer Supreme]

7 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I was looking forward to Book meeting with Georgiou and the scene did not disappoint, he!

I really hope that new Burnham does not simply revert back to old Burnham after a couple of episodes. The character is so much enjoyable with a sense of humor and a streak of unpredictability. Georgiou approves too!

I must be one of the few people on this planet who were not annoyed by Wesley Crusher. All I could think of when Adira had revealed her true identity was that the admiral was going to pull rank and Saru would lose the captain's seat. Since I consider that seat ST's version of the DADA teacher's position at Hogwarts I'm worried about him. 

While I appreciated Georgiou's -ahem- help to speed along diplomacy it felt a bit weird that future earth's tech was never able to scan Wen or his ships. After all Owosekun had no problems detecting feline life-signs on Book's ship using 900 years old technology.

Georgiou is still Bae!  I'm sure she was looking at Wen and thinking, "Are these fools really not seeing the human in a bug mask? Idiots."

Michael should be much easier to take since she is removed from the rigid Vulcan Way of Life that she led for so long.  I wonder if we will see Vulcans and Romulans in Discovery? Hell, I'd like to see what Klingons have evolved to be in the future!

[Kromm]

1 hour ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Georgiou is still Bae!  I'm sure she was looking at Wen and thinking, "Are these fools really not seeing the human in a bug mask? Idiots."

Michael should be much easier to take since she is removed from the rigid Vulcan Way of Life that she led for so long.  I wonder if we will see Vulcans and Romulans in Discovery? Hell, I'd like to see what Klingons have evolved to be in the future!

I want the Klingons to have gone in a totally unexpected direction and instead of the return to aggression we'd expect with the destruction of easy space travel, to go the opposite way and be one of the remaining bastions of civilization. 

Also... magically back in the old TNG/DS9/Next Gen movies makeup/prosthetics/color scheme, please. Just pretend this isn't the same show that made them look ridiculous in a previous season. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Kromm

[Maverick]

 Can they also go back to speaking in a normal cadence rather than An Evening With the Klingons:  With All Parts Read by William Shatner?    I'm watching season one and seriously this shit bugs.  

[Llywela]

7 hours ago, catsitter said:

I was beginning to wonder whether I had just imagined that the Starfleet guy in episode 1 said there were two Starfleet ships in the quadrant (or similar) but then they did finally mention another ship in this episode, so why has Burnham apparently not got in touch with one of those ships over the course of a year???

She might well have tried and failed. I expect a lot of gaps will be filled in as the season continues.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Book was working the hell out of that Starfleet uniform. Yum.

Wait, so Michael's new boyfriend is gone now? Booo! I really liked the easy camaraderie they had.

[Starchild]

On 10/30/2020 at 10:26 AM, tennisgurl said:

Michael reunites with the crew, and while its nice and everyone is happy to see each other, its also on the awkward side, as Michael has apparently gotten used to the future world a bit more while doing Han Solo stuff with Book, and its weird for her to be back on the ship. Its awkward for now, but something I guess you just need to get used to again. 

So this "I let you go" stuff doesn't sit right with me. It's only been a year. A year is not that long when you're young. Not long enough to get to the mental place she says she's at, especially since she hadn't given up. She's been laser focused on finding some sign of them for a relatively short period of time, she may have been thinking she might never find them, but in one year, with so much energy focused on the goal, there's just no way she would have been able to simultaneously go through a grieving process that would get her to "I let you go." For that she'd have to be one or more of 

• older, with significantly more of her life behind than ahead of her
• less focused on the goal, and truly forging a new life
• separated a LOT longer than a year

I understand the story they want to tell, and that it couldn't be so long they'd have to start using age makeup on her going forward, but psychologically it's just not something that would happen the way they say it has to this particular character. 

 

On 10/30/2020 at 11:08 AM, Llywela said:

Detmer's problem still comes across as PTSD to me - here even more so than last week. She questioned Saru because he was actively positioning the ship to be fired upon, which freaked Detmer out because she no longer trusts the ship to protect her in such situations. I think being injured again going through the time wormhole triggered PTSD from the Battle of the Binary Stars.

And LOL because the moment Book commented on Grudge still being on his ship, which he wasn't allowed to set foot on without permission, I was worried about the poor cat being left alone with no one to feed it!

At a loss how? You just summed it up perfectly. There was a Trill Starfleet Admiral on Earth, trapped far from the Trill homeworld - the symbiote had probably been stuck on Earth since the Burn. Humans are not ideal hosts for Trill symbiotes, but will do in a pinch, so when the Admiral died, the symbiote (for whatever reason) was given to the kid, Adira. The joining isn't perfect, because humans aren't fully compatible, so she can't fully access the memories of past hosts, but she knows enough to want to try to find the rest of the Federation with Discovery - possibly because the symbiote really wants to find a proper Trill host. So that's why she has joined the crew.

Re: Detmer - while I'm sure this happens in real life, it's too vague and ambiguous to be a television plot point. I think something specific is happening here, and this initial confused state will evolve into something more menacing.

Re: Grudge - I had the same thought! If he's not allowed on the ship, who's going to feed the cat?

Re: Adira - I'm a little confused about why she has the Tal symbiont. The admiral (Senna) was supposed to have died 2 years after leaving Earth, but Tal is on Earth. So the symbiont must have been removed from Senna before he died and transferred to Adira, who would have been only 14 years old (assuming the transfer happened just before Senna left Earth). Why? Was Tal rejecting the symbiont? Was a 14-year-old human really the best available option? I guess we'll find out more next week, but right now I'm wondering about it. Or am I getting some of the details wrong?

 

23 hours ago, paigow said:

To antagonize / con more aliens, that give him a reason for asking Discovery to save him...

Or to give him the opportunity to appear to betray them for their dilithium.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Starchild

[KimberStormer]

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

So this "I let you go" stuff doesn't sit right with me. It's only been a year. A year is not that long when you're young. Not long enough to get to the mental place she says she's at, especially since she hadn't given up.

I don't think this was the intention of the writers or anything, but from a Watsonian perspective, we might imagine that her mother's behavior last season is influencing her here.  It was very traumatic for Michael, I have no doubt, to be reunited with a mother she thought was dead, and instead of being welcomed with a motherly embrace her mom held her at arm's length and was like "I already let you go, you're all dead."  I could posit that she is re-playing her past trauma with herself in the other role, or something.  She has a model of how to be a person alone in the future facing an apocalypse and it is to disassociate from her past life and feelings.  Something like that?

[Kromm]

I think Burnham legitimately had no reason to believe she'd ever see Discovery again.  They could have emerged in time anywhere, or been destroyed, and she knew that.

So it WAS simply a process of letting go.  A year is more than enough time for her to have come to that emotional conclusion, because she knew enough about how they traveled to have a reasonable belief she was separated by both space AND time from them.  But it was an incomplete process, clearly.  I mean we weren't presented with some ridiculous conclusion like her saying Hi and taking back off with Book.  

Let's use an analogy. Say you worked in an office.  For five days of seven for decades.

Then a huge pandemic happened and you adjusted, for just a year, to working from home.  You hoped you'd eventually go back to normal, but as time wore on increasingly felt like it might not.

Wouldn't it feel weird to suddenly wind up back at the office?  Wouldn't you feel like part of you had permanently changed?  Mind you, it's not a perfect parallel, because everyone around you would have been going through the same things, but the main point is that a year of breaking a core pattern in your life IS a lot, undeniably.

 

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

So this "I let you go" stuff doesn't sit right with me. It's only been a year. A year is not that long when you're young. Not long enough to get to the mental place she says she's at, especially since she hadn't given up. She's been laser focused on finding some sign of them for a relatively short period of time, she may have been thinking she might never find them, but in one year, with so much energy focused on the goal, there's just no way she would have been able to simultaneously go through a grieving process that would get her to "I let you go." For that she'd have to be one or more of 

• older, with significantly more of her life behind than ahead of her
• less focused on the goal, and truly forging a new life
• separated a LOT longer than a year

With everything she says she tried to do, how long it took to communicate across star systems, and all the shared "gambits" intimated by her strategy conversation with Book, saying it's only been a year seems ludicrous.  Make it two or three years and all of that becomes more believable - even the hair. 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Quilt Fairy

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

With everything she says she tried to do, how long it took to communicate across star systems, and all the shared "gambits" intimated by her strategy conversation with Book, saying it's only been a year seems ludicrous.  Make it two or three years and all of that becomes more believable - even the hair. 

If 3 years had passed, she would be Emperor Burnham

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Kromm said:

 

Wouldn't it feel weird to suddenly wind up back at the office?  Wouldn't you feel like part of you had permanently changed?  Mind you, it's not a perfect parallel, because everyone around you would have been going through the same things, but the main point is that a year of breaking a core pattern in your life IS a lot, undeniably.

 

I think the implication is that she had learned a few things traveling with Book and we may see some changes. 

[paigow]

56 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I think the implication is that she had learned a few things traveling with Book...

• Book [as Han Solo]: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything.

[CarpeFelis]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

If 3 years had passed, she would be Emperor Burnham

And it will probably only take Georgiou a few months.

[Frozendiva]

I was surprised that Burnham went back to Starfleet so fast. Thought she would have wanted to stay in her current life for a while. Travelling about with Book seems great. No uniform, just exploring the galaxy. A year's wait is not that long - guess she was just killing time til Discovery showed up.

I wanted to see more of the new Earth. Thought it would be more desolate and re-Terraformed. The current self-sustaining Earth needs a bit more explanation. Wouldn't they be more surprised to find an old relic Starfleet ship?

Why did all the Federation starships blow up in the Burn? Wonder if we'll get that answer.

Michael's and Tilly's conversation was really awkward. Yes, the audience has noticed the new hairstyle, and so has Tilly. Got a frenemy vibe.

Is Book going to turn up like some sort of Han Solo type character and just pop in and out this season?

Enjoyed seeing Christopher Heyerdahl again. He always sells his characters - Todd the Wraith in Stargate Atlantis, Druitt/Jack the Ripper in Sanctuary.

[Kromm]

16 minutes ago, Frozendiva said:

Why did all the Federation starships blow up in the Burn? Wonder if we'll get that answer.

It was every ship using a Dilithium crystal.  So far more than just the Federation ships. 

Discovery using the excuse/lie that they weren't in Warp at the time of The Burn seems to tell us that the crystals had to be active, so there's that.

We certainly WILL get an answer.  It's the central plotpoint for the entire season.  

If this was the original version of the show, circa Season 1, I'd be assuming that Burnham's time travel somehow had a knock-on effect that later caused this after the fact.  Or using the Spore Drive somehow had a knock-on effect that later caused this after the fact.

However they've made it clear the show is now less about angst, so I don't think they'll go in that direction.  

[Chyromaniac]

Well, that certainly felt like a proper Star Trek story.  The only real difference between this and, say, season 3 TNG was that instead of some alien world standing in for human conflict, it’s just regular old Earth.  Even the UE uniforms had kind of a TNG vibe- the episode “The High Ground” specifically.  As for the story, I think the lesson is that even in the face of tragedy and hardship you can’t just walk yourself off - otherwise you wind up losing a part of yourself.  That’s certainly true of Earth: 3189, but I think it applies to Burnham as well.  In facing the possibility of never seeing the Disco crew again, she’s sort of given up a bit on Starfleet - but now she has to recommit to those ideals and values.

[KimberStormer]

My sister pointed out that they were all oohing and aahing over the tree still being there, but then it pulled back to show all of SF is still the same, including the stupid solar panels on the Golden Gate Bridge...

6 hours ago, paigow said:

• Book [as Han Solo]: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything.

But in this case, Book is the one who has The Force and magical healing powers and Disney Princess talk-to-animals powers etc.

4 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

I was surprised that Burnham went back to Starfleet so fast. Thought she would have wanted to stay in her current life for a while. Travelling about with Book seems great. No uniform, just exploring the galaxy.

I was saying during the episode, she was doing what I kept saying Mariner should have done...maybe someone can beam Mariner into the future and she can stop whining about the job that she volunteered for knowing exactly what it is because she grew up in it?  Being a do-gooding streetwise courier like Book seems like literally her dream job.  I'd like to see Georgiou do some of her psychological warfare on Mariner, tbh.

Edited November 1, 2020 by KimberStormer

[Kromm]

2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

all of SF is still the same, including the stupid solar panels on the Golden Gate Bridge.

So they've got a 1200 year old bridge, perfectly preserved?  It IS an eye roller. Especially since it's probably been 1000 years since anyone used a land vehicle in that city. 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Kromm said:

So they've got a 1200 year old bridge, perfectly preserved?  It IS an eye roller. Especially since it's probably been 1000 years since anyone used a land vehicle in that city. 

Maybe SF has an annual "Burning Bane" festival where the bridge is blown up and rebuilt by the arts community and various non-conformists...

[starri]

3 hours ago, Kromm said:

So they've got a 1200 year old bridge, perfectly preserved?  It IS an eye roller. Especially since it's probably been 1000 years since anyone used a land vehicle in that city. 

We have 2000 year-old Roman aqueducts that are still well-preserved.

[Llywela]

6 hours ago, Kromm said:

So they've got a 1200 year old bridge, perfectly preserved?  It IS an eye roller. Especially since it's probably been 1000 years since anyone used a land vehicle in that city. 

There's a castle in my city that's been there since Roman times. It's been ruined and then rebuilt a few times over the centuries, but there has been a fortress in that exact spot for over 1800 years, the Roman foundations still clearly visible at the base of the outer walls, while the inner keep was built in the 11th century and is still standing with every room intact. Look at the Pyramids. The Parthenon. The Great Wall of China. And I could go on.

Humans like to preserve things they consider historically significant. We have laws and organisations dedicated to that end. You don't think the Golden Gate Bridge is worth preserving for posterity? You can't imagine successive generations choosing to repair it and rebuild it as the centuries pass, preserving it (or at least the appearance of it, possibly with every section replaced multiple times) just as it was because they consider it a historical icon and treasure it as such? Honestly, to me that seems an absolutely realistic and very human thing to do!

Edited November 1, 2020 by Llywela

[DavidJSnyder]

The thing that bugged me was the storty where Saru claimed they were descendants of the ship's original Starfleet crew members. The story doesn't stand up to much examination and even if it had if things go well talking to Earth you're eventually going to have to come clean.  Telling them you've traveled from the past would have been  a simple enough explanation and still allowed Saru to omit information he didn't want to go into yet without actually lying.

[Linderhill]

On 10/31/2020 at 10:47 PM, Frozendiva said:

Enjoyed seeing Christopher Heyerdahl again. He always sells his characters - Todd the Wraith in Stargate Atlantis, Druitt/Jack the Ripper in Sanctuary.

The demon Alistair on Supernatural ...

[Helena Dax]

Oh,  I love Trills, so happy to see one of them in the show!

I like this show but tbh, other than Michael, I'm not really interested in any of the crew members. Philippa, Book or that half klingon guy are more interesting. 

[Kromm]

2 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Oh,  I love Trills, so happy to see one of them in the show!

I like this show but tbh, other than Michael, I'm not really interested in any of the crew members. Philippa, Book or that half klingon guy are more interesting. 

I actually think Tilly works as a character.  She toes the line of perkiness that might become annoying, but stops short.  And I do think Saru has worked reasonably well as a character.   Stamets sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.  I know Reno is divisive,  but I'm on the side that likes her.

The rest of the crew?  Culber, Nhan, Detmer, Bryce, Nilsson... 4 of those who's names I had to look up, because I care so little about them.  I mean why would we?  Ugh.

[paigow]

40 minutes ago, Kromm said:

I actually think Tilly works as a character.  She toes the line of perkiness that might become annoying, but stops short.  And I do think Saru has worked reasonably well as a character.   Stamets sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.  I know Reno is divisive,  but I'm on the side that likes her.

The rest of the crew?  Culber, Nhan, Detmer, Bryce, Nilsson... 4 of those who's names I had to look up, because I care so little about them.  I mean why would we?  Ugh.

Tilly seems like a character dropped in from the "Whedonverse".  I keep waiting for Stamets to sing something from Rent

[Kromm]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Tilly seems like a character dropped in from the "Whedonverse".  I keep waiting for Stamets to sing something from Rent

Do you think the issue of Stamets sexuality has been overemphasized or otherwise mishandled?  I can't see any other reason for that comparison.

As for Tilly, she's an interesting variant on a Mary Sue to me.  The classic ones are overly competent but also otherwise perfect.  I'd say Tilly is instead constructed to be socially awkward, but she doesn't face the real consequences of that.  She's magically competent around the edges of being a Dork.  For all the ways that Adira comes off as New Wesley Crusher, I suppose there's a good argument for Tilly being that instead.  Whether or not Next Gen INTENDED for Wesley to be such a Dork, it's the reality of how he manifested.  But they DID insist on him being super competent/special.  The same combination has been used for Tilly.  Maybe Adira will prove to be more of a Data, while Tilly continues to be the Wesley.  We shall see.