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OnceSane

S16.E02: Week 2

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19 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I wonder if Clare will ever see the hypocrisy in calling Brandon "shallow." for saying he saw how pretty she was and wanted to come on the show, while she, herself, took one look a Dale and said she  wanted to marry him.

 

Most people will go through their entire lives only ever capable of seeing themselves as the hero or the victim in their own life story. It takes real maturity and self reflection to think that sometimes you’re a villain, or maybe even just a bystander to someone else’s story. Sadly, Clare lacks both those qualities. It’s unfortunate, too, because life becomes a whole lot easier when you’re not completely self absorbed and able to admit when you’ve done something wrong. 

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7 hours ago, MoonMountain said:

She is so caught up in her "strong woman" narrative. Certainly there is nothing wrong with being strong, but you can be a strong woman and a kind woman at the same time. She's scolding these guys for not living up to her expectations, when they don't even know what her expectations are because half of them have never even spoken to her. She is super uptight, and seems a little neurotic (I'm neurotic myself, and this season is not doing a very good job of distracting me from my own issues). 

And she was just nasty to Brandon, in my opinion. In normal circumstances, if a guy went on a date with a woman and admitted he'd googled the crap out of her and knew her entire life story, she'd call him a stalker and run the other way. But Clare seems to think unnecessarily highly of herself, her ego is a bit inflated. This whole season so far just seems so DIRE. I can't imagine anyone is having a really stellar time at this point.

This show in general has been trending toward the idea that anyone on the show is automatically in love with whoever the lead is. I think I really started noticing it around Jojo's season, my friend and I used to yell at the TV, "HOW CAN THEY TELL YOU ALL OF THE THINGS THEY LOVE ABOUT YOU, THEY DON'T EVEN KNOOOOW YOU!!!!" And it's only gotten worse from there. I suppose we have social media to thank for that. It would be interesting if they reformatted the casting to be new people every time, or at least if they stopped announcing who it was ahead of time, and literally waited until the first episode with the limos to do the reveal. That might not be sustainable long-term, but I bet they could get viewers hyped up about a "mystery" Bachelor....

 

She was indeed nasty to Brandon.  But he did make the comment that he was so excited that it was going to be her.  He should have followed up with how eager he was to get to know more about her. That's what this show is supposed to be about, isn't it? Getting to know one another? I remember Andi bitching about Juan Pablo that all he wanted to do was talk about himself and never asked her any questions about her. I guess Clare thinks she's some sort of celebrity that all these guys should be clamoring for her attention. She doesn't realize there should be some give and take.

As for a "mystery" bachelor, aren't we getting that with Matt James? All I know is his picture and that he's Tyler Cameron's friend.

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18 minutes ago, deSchenke said:

He should have followed up with how eager he was to get to know more about her. That's what this show is supposed to be about, isn't it? Getting to know one another?

I'm pretty sure he did exactly that. Clare just kept interrupting him to whine about how he didn't know everything about her already and couldn't give her millions of compliments.

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48 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm pretty sure he did exactly that. Clare just kept interrupting him to whine about how he didn't know everything about her already and couldn't give her millions of compliments.

Clare’s trying way too hard to be the bachelorette that puts the men in their place . Mixed with that is a bunch of natural crazy and it’s certainly good tv , but doesn’t exactly make a man or anyone want to cozy up to you or steal you to have a conversation . 
She’s 39 single and has never been married not because she’s a strong woman who knows what she wants and hasn’t found it . She’s 39, single and has never been married because she hasn’t found a guy who is willing to get emotionally and mentally beat up every time he says or doesn’t say something . She’s definitely a pill . 
 

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You would think Clare would know at the age of 39, that guys who spill their guts and wax poetic when they just met you, are looking to get in your pants and that's it. 

The guy Clare got mad at and sent home, because he couldn't go further than "I thought you were pretty and I wanted to get to know you better" That guy was normal and honest. 

What is it Clare wants? A bullshit artist?

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14 hours ago, Arkay said:

I had written a longish post that disappeared into the ether, so I'll do a TL;DR version.

If I were a guy in my 20s or 30s that was truly looking for love,  I would grab my face mask and hitchhike out of there. It's a no-win situation for all but Dale. She's branded him with "HUSBAND" and therefore none of the rest can do right by her. For instance, the one who couldn't come up with any reason to be there other than she is beautiful. She was so scornful that he hadn't praised her strength or whatever. Yet if he'd done that instead, she'd probably be pissed that he didn't think she was pretty. 

I can imagine them sticking around if just to bro' out with the guys and have some  fun in a mid-range California hotel. If any of these young men are sincerely looking for a wife and family, they'd better really love Clare. Unfair it may be, but she doesn't have much time left to conceive naturally. That's fine and there are options, but for a young man, why bother with a high-maintenance, inflexible drama queen when the world is still their oyster and there are young, beautiful, fertile, intelligent women on every corner?

Someone earlier posted that they should have had divorced, 50-ish men as contestants. That is so true. 

The first minute I heard Clare was the new Bachelorette I thought it would be an interesting change, if her men were 36-45 (give or take) years old. A switch from the 24 year old bachelorette and the gaggle of 21-32 year old men. A whole new dynamic!

But it doesn't look that way now. Clare seems less mature than the usual 39 year old, and the men they have picked for her are too young. Let's just say it. 

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52 minutes ago, TVMovieBuff said:

You would think Clare would know at the age of 39, that guys who spill their guts and wax poetic when they just met you, are looking to get in your pants and that's it. 

The guy Clare got mad at and sent home, because he couldn't go further than "I thought you were pretty and I wanted to get to know you better" That guy was normal and honest. 

What is it Clare wants? A bullshit artist?

Im sure he was rejected based on her pre-season "research".

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On 10/20/2020 at 9:16 PM, tennisgurl said:

After last weeks surprisingly good start, this episode fizzled into awkwardness and lameness. Clare is so painfully and obviously desperate that she loses her shit whenever the guys are not devoting every second to her, and her dates, like asking the guys to get into their deepest issues and traumas and that super uncomfortable and creepy strip dodgeball dont seem like fun at all, they just seem weirdly degrading. That strip dodgeball game was nasty tacky stuff, even by this franchises shameless standards, and it made Clare look like an immature creep. Clare still has her moments, she can at least hold a real conversation, but the more we see of her, the more I dont like what I see. 

On the other hand, I love all of the bromances that are already forming, I really missed that the last few seasons. I kind of expect almost all of the guys to just leave the hotel and Clare to all hang out together.

After reading these posts and thinking about it, the strip down seemed creepy for another reason. Back in slavery days, when slaves were up for sale they were often naked so potential buyers could look them over like they were livestock.  So . . . yuck.

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1 hour ago, Lamb18 said:

After reading these posts and thinking about it, the strip down seemed creepy for another reason. Back in slavery days, when slaves were up for sale they were often naked so potential buyers could look them over like they were livestock.  So . . . yuck.

Apologies in advance for the sexist and shallow comment I'm about to make. 

Since the pandemic (stay healthy, everyone)! has allowed Clare to be the first lead that was able to thoroughly scour the Internet for info on her contestants, this stripdown gave her the opportunity to literally size them up, if you know what I mean. So between both of these things, she really has more "info" on her contestants at the start than anyone else has had. My fond, shallow and sexist wish is that Dale had been on the losing team, was humiliated into getting naked, and did not "measure up." I would enjoy watching Clare anguish over that. 

Of course slave auctions were on a much deeper and terrible level, but I would have liked the schadenfreude for Clare. 

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17 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I think Claire has some daddy issues. 

Does this show pay their contestants to be there and the longer you stay, the more money kind of deal?

 

No, the show dont pay the suitors AT ALL. It's expensive to be on the show with losing wages and having to buy a new wardrobe but the exposure you get as an influencer if you get noticed enough is well worth it.

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I haven't watched the Bachelor/ette since Chris Soules' season! I wasn't already familiar with Clare (so I guess like Brandon I'm banished), but tuned in especially to see this - I've wanted the show to tackle older singles for some time. And I relate to Clare's family situation, as someone who'd had a widowed mom with Alzheimer's. But dang, it's like Clare has no game. Every time a guy says something nice to her, she'll respond with "no one has ever said nice things like that" or some variation on the theme. The more she does that, the more she comes across as someone who made poor decisions with men, didn't have great self-esteem, etc. (I mean, we've all been there but you have to sometimes fake it 'til you make it.) Wearing your heart on your sleeve isn't a bad thing, but there's something to be said for keeping some thoughts in check.

Random questions:

1) What's with Blake's mouth/lips? He seems to be chewing them whenever he's around Clare, like it's a nervous tic. It's distracting. Between that and the "the rules don't apply to me" stuff, he just seems like someone with pent-up...something. Like on the surface he's a nice guy but can get to toxic in 60 seconds if things don't go his way.

2) How did Bennett get a much nicer room? I'm guessing he paid up for a suite. I had to laugh at the way he arranged his facial mask packets and shoes. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

 I wonder if anyone will try to make a break for it and an alarm will sound and he'll be hunted down by dogs.

Okay, now THAT I'd watch...

(jk...sort of)

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Claire needs to get the fuck over herself! I had never heard of her until they announced the new Bachelorette though I went back and watched JP’s season to get a feel for her and she has had little emotional growth or fortitude since she did her first show. 

Edited by Kiss my mutt
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Welp, my 40yo ass would be all over Bennett: good looking, educated, professional guy who loves to travel. We could do facials together in our presidential suite in Prague. 

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Funny when Claire asked Jason to write down stuff that others had said about him and she would do the same , my first thought for her was “ needy”. She is desparate like that annalise chick on bip- anyone who shows her affection and attention is it . I still remember her on bip and i was embarassed for her . She is right up there with Deanna in terms of berating the guys and not being nice at all. A shame . Word to whoever said she is caught up in being a “ strong woman” . I hope after she and this guy break up she is off our screens, which sounds mean but i am cringing watching her . 

5 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

After reading these posts and thinking about it, the strip down seemed creepy for another reason. Back in slavery days, when slaves were up for sale they were often naked so potential buyers could look them over like they were livestock.  So . . . yuck.

I remember  a wise poster on twop who wrote about Jamie palmers season and likened the rose ceremony as “ culling the herd”. The whole thing is terribly icky , but yet i continue to watch .

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Whenever a woman says she is a strong woman, I immediately know that she is insecure, weak and needy.  A strong woman shows she is strong through her actions and they avoid throwing temper tantrums.  While 39 is still very young, I would expect a woman at this age to have more realistic expectations regarding men. I think she wants a guy to tell her how amazing she is every second of the day.  She is very high maintenance.  A hope any man who does marry her enjoys drama because they will get plenty of it!

Usually you see whiny, drama queens among young women in their teens and early 20s.  By 25, there is no excuse to be a drama queen.  

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1 hour ago, mamadrama said:

Welp, my 40yo ass would be all over Bennett: good looking, educated, professional guy who loves to travel. We could do facials together in our presidential suite in Prague. 

 

I'm not gonna lie: he had me at H-bomb.

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From reading these comments, I became fascinated with the conversation she had with Brandon where she let him go early.  So I took one for the team, re-watched it, and transcribed it (yes, I'm pathetic!).  And although Clare is insecure, and her expectations of praise at this point are ridiculous, girlfriend made the right decision in this case.  Read on if you're interested...and even if you're not, you may want to read on anyway, because it is a fascinating case study in what-not-to-do for Bachelorette suitors.  I will put it in a spoiler since it's lengthy:

Spoiler

C - What brought you here?

B - I never thought I would do anything like this before, and when I found out that you were the Bachelorette, I just knew [she laughs], I knew I had to be here.

C - So what made you want to be on here for me?

B - [Dead silence, deer in headlights look] First of all, you're obviously absolutely gorgeous.

C - Thank you.

B - Um, but [small laugh], other than that, to be honest with you, I don't know really anything about you.  I know that you, you're from Sacramento.  Are you born and raised, or...?

C - Wait.  So you said you knew that I was the Bachelorette and you wanted to sign up. 

B - Mmhmm.

C - But you don't know anything about me?

B - I don't, I don't know you pers...

C - Uh huh

B - Obviously I don't know you on a personal level...

C - Uh huh

B - And I don't know your history, um, you're just, you're just so beautiful and I wanted to get to know you.

C - Is there any other thing that made you want to come on for me?

B - Um, I don't, I don't have a specific answer for you, to be honest

C - OK

B - [mumbles something I couldn't understand]

C - Can we not talk about that?

B - No, I just like, it's...

C - That's what this entire thing is...

B - No, I understand.  But like, you know, I, I don't feel like anybody really knew you on a personal level to...

C - I don't think people have to know me on a personal level.  But there's a lot of guys here that say they like my drive, or they like what I have to offer, or they like that I stood up for myself.  I mean, just, anything other than my looks.

B - No, of course, just they didn't know that befo...they didn't know that prior to coming on the show, which is..

C - They did know that prior to coming on the show because a lot of them have said that.

B - [Silence] I'm here to find love, and, you know, I'm here to find someone to start a family of my own.

C - Mmhmm

B - And, you know, I know there's moments between you and I where, you know, I know you feel it too, even where we haven't had that one-on-one time, there are moments there, you know.

C - I actually don't feel that way.  [And then she goes on to explain why she is asking him to leave]

She gave him ample opportunity to say something, anything, about her as a person, and he failed miserably.  She even gave him examples!!  But still he could not come up with one.single.thing.  It showed that his comment about coming onto the show was just a throwaway lie.   Instead he went on to talk about what HE wanted.  And then he clearly wasn't reading the room, because he went with that weird, stalker-ish stuff about the moments that have passed between them when they weren't even together, which clearly she hadn't felt.

 

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2 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

From reading these comments, I became fascinated with the conversation she had with Brandon where she let him go early.  So I took one for the team, re-watched it, and transcribed it (yes, I'm pathetic!).  And although Clare is insecure, and her expectations of praise at this point are ridiculous, girlfriend made the right decision in this case.  Read on if you're interested...and even if you're not, you may want to read on anyway, because it is a fascinating case study in what-not-to-do for Bachelorette suitors.  I will put it in a spoiler since it's lengthy:

  Hide contents

C - What brought you here?

B - I never thought I would do anything like this before, and when I found out that you were the Bachelorette, I just knew [she laughs], I knew I had to be here.

C - So what made you want to be on here for me?

B - [Dead silence, deer in headlights look] First of all, you're obviously absolutely gorgeous.

C - Thank you.

B - Um, but [small laugh], other than that, to be honest with you, I don't know really anything about you.  I know that you, you're from Sacramento.  Are you born and raised, or...?

C - Wait.  So you said you knew that I was the Bachelorette and you wanted to sign up. 

B - Mmhmm.

C - But you don't know anything about me?

B - I don't, I don't know you pers...

C - Uh huh

B - Obviously I don't know you on a personal level...

C - Uh huh

B - And I don't know your history, um, you're just, you're just so beautiful and I wanted to get to know you.

C - Is there any other thing that made you want to come on for me?

B - Um, I don't, I don't have a specific answer for you, to be honest

C - OK

B - [mumbles something I couldn't understand]

C - Can we not talk about that?

B - No, I just like, it's...

C - That's what this entire thing is...

B - No, I understand.  But like, you know, I, I don't feel like anybody really knew you on a personal level to...

C - I don't think people have to know me on a personal level.  But there's a lot of guys here that say they like my drive, or they like what I have to offer, or they like that I stood up for myself.  I mean, just, anything other than my looks.

B - No, of course, just they didn't know that befo...they didn't know that prior to coming on the show, which is..

C - They did know that prior to coming on the show because a lot of them have said that.

B - [Silence] I'm here to find love, and, you know, I'm here to find someone to start a family of my own.

C - Mmhmm

B - And, you know, I know there's moments between you and I where, you know, I know you feel it too, even where we haven't had that one-on-one time, there are moments there, you know.

C - I actually don't feel that way.  [And then she goes on to explain why she is asking him to leave]

She gave him ample opportunity to say something, anything, about her as a person, and he failed miserably.  She even gave him examples!!  But still he could not come up with one.single.thing.  It showed that his comment about coming onto the show was just a throwaway lie.   Instead he went on to talk about what HE wanted.  And then he clearly wasn't reading the room, because he went with that weird, stalker-ish stuff about the moments that have passed between them when they weren't even together, which clearly she hadn't felt.

 

I agree on all counts.  BUT couldn't she have just not given him a rose?  and spared everyone the drama? oh wait, that is the reason she is on this show!

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Thanks for transcribing this for us @LuvMyShows I get what she means but I just thought her whole reaction was abrupt and over the top and She didn’t give him a chance to elaborate before cutting him off. I think Brandon dodged a bullet, not that anything he said would have changed her mind about Dale. 

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What stood out to me from the transcript were two things; (1) Clare talked over him every time he tried to explain himself and( 2)  her examples of good things to say, " But there's a lot of guys here that say they like my drive, or they like what I have to offer, or they like that I stood up for myself,"  are just examples of meaningless phrases.  Her drive?  What's that, exactly?  What exactly does she have to offer?  I suppose she sees her hissy fit at Juan Pablo as sticking up for herself but others might see it as a poor loser taking her rejection badly.

I think she decided before the show that the first time the group failed to respect her she would give them a lecture and that she would send one of the guys home right away, just to show what a strong woman she was.  Never mind whether she really had much reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

What stood out to me from the transcript were two things; (1) Clare talked over him every time he tried to explain himself and( 2)  her examples of good things to say, " But there's a lot of guys here that say they like my drive, or they like what I have to offer, or they like that I stood up for myself,"  are just examples of meaningless phrases.  Her drive?  What's that, exactly?  What exactly does she have to offer?  I suppose she sees her hissy fit at Juan Pablo as sticking up for herself but others might see it as a poor loser taking her rejection badly.

I think she decided before the show that the first time the group failed to respect her she would give them a lecture and that she would send one of the guys home right away, just to show what a strong woman she was.  Never mind whether she really had much reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, yes. Like a bad business book for new bosses circa ‘80s and under: Get in there and fire someone immediately to assert your dominance. Or, like, mobsters to off someone at the first sign of disrespect, so the other mobsters fall in line.

Edited by JenE4
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12 hours ago, PhysNerd said:

Whenever a woman says she is a strong woman, I immediately know that she is insecure, weak and needy.  A strong woman shows she is strong through her actions and they avoid throwing temper tantrums.  While 39 is still very young, I would expect a woman at this age to have more realistic expectations regarding men. I think she wants a guy to tell her how amazing she is every second of the day.  She is very high maintenance.  A hope any man who does marry her enjoys drama because they will get plenty of it!

Usually you see whiny, drama queens among young women in their teens and early 20s.  By 25, there is no excuse to be a drama queen.  

Yes !! 
This “ strong woman “ era is great .. but I agree that the people who Constantly say they’re strong and independent , often are not . That usually makes them feel better because words are easy to say , actions are hard to do . Clare is anything but strong . She’s extremely needy and insecure . 

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Why does Clare think she was soooo amazing for what she said to Juan Pablo ? The entire premise of the show is to pick one at the end and reject everyone else !! She just came off looking like a sore loser to me . Not strong or standing up for herself . She chose to have sex with him knowing he still has a lot of other girls there . He obviously did turn out to be a dog , but picking one girl over another is not groundbreaking , it’s the rules lol 

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I read the transcript and honestly I still don't think Brandon was horrible and Clare still comes off terribly lol. I mean, I'm sure Brandon probably sucks and I don't blame Clare necessarily for getting rid of him, but that whole thing was absolutely nothing and she got way OTT worked up over it. She obviously bought into the hype that she's some kind of independent, strong, truth-telling hero.

I wanted the Clare that talked to a raccoon, dammit!

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4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I think she decided before the show that the first time the group failed to respect her she would give them a lecture and that she would send one of the guys home right away, just to show what a strong woman she was.  Never mind whether she really had much reason.

2 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Ah, yes. Like a bad business book for new bosses circa ‘80s and under: Get in there and fire someone immediately to assert your dominance. Or, like, mobsters to off someone at the first sign of disrespect, so the other mobsters fall in line.

Oh I think her insecurities and, paradoxically, her over-inflated ego, did the job all by themselves, and that there was no pre-determination or agenda about lecturing the guys or sending one home early.  I think she wanted to let it go, and tried to, but as she was talking with Bennett (?), their lack of proper fawning kept gnawing at her and she felt she just had to go back and scold them.   She is very emotional, and during the conversation with Brandon, her anger kept seeping out even though she was trying to control it, so I think she just went with her emotions and got rid of him right then.

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I think she decided before the show that the first time the group failed to respect her she would give them a lecture and that she would send one of the guys home right away, just to show what a strong woman she was.  Never mind whether she really had much reason.

IMO Brandon didn't say or do anything wrong to warrant Clare's overreaction.   Clare is infatuated with Dale and has already concluded that Dale is her husband even before she had a conversation with some of the other men,   She is just looking for any reason to send the rest of them home.   

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On 10/22/2020 at 12:46 PM, TVMovieBuff said:

You would think Clare would know at the age of 39, that guys who spill their guts and wax poetic when they just met you, are looking to get in your pants and that's it. 

The guy Clare got mad at and sent home, because he couldn't go further than "I thought you were pretty and I wanted to get to know you better" That guy was normal and honest. 

What is it Clare wants? A bullshit artist?

Of course we all like to hear that we're so awesome all around, but I feel the same way about guys who are in instantly in love. I haven't had good experiences with it.

I much prefer a man who's honest about finding me attractive and wanting to get to know me. I've never found anyone instantly perfect. It's always been, oh he's a cutie! I wonder if he's a nice guy and if we have things in common. 

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I would be suspicious of a man that just doled out the praise right out of the gates. It just sounds insincere. I don’t think Claire will ever be happy until she is happy with herself. 

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One thing to remember is that this a reality show first. So who knows how much of Clare and Brandon's conversation was edited out. As edited I still think it makes Clare look bad. Brandon comes off looking like a deer in headlights not realizing he needed to have a google doc filled with Clare's personal history. But ultimately not a bad guy. 

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1 hour ago, lynxfx said:

One thing to remember is that this a reality show first. So who knows how much of Clare and Brandon's conversation was edited out. As edited I still think it makes Clare look bad. Brandon comes off looking like a deer in headlights not realizing he needed to have a google doc filled with Clare's personal history. But ultimately not a bad guy. 

Good point.  And we have to remember that Clare busted TPTB plans for the season.  No matter how many times they try to cash in on this being “THE MOST DRAMATIC SEASON EVEEEEER” they had a narrative set up and she didn’t play by it.  So they may have decided to change “quirky” Clare into “Lucretia Borgia Clare” for their own purposes.

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If this were a dude and the dates had consisted of the women giving a laundry list of all the attributes they loved about him and then playing a round of strip putt putt (him participating in neither, of course) then that shit would've damn near have brought down the network.

My biggest problem, however, is the lameness. Somehow they managed to make naked, good looking guys boring. That takes talent, ABC. I know they're meant to stay at the resort but still...I grew up on the campus of an isolated boarding school in the mountains, and we had more fun on the weekends without internet or cable than these folks seem to be having.

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They could do a rap battle about JP like they did on Desiree’s season about Mesnick. That was fun. Maybe a slip and slide, goat yoga, do a stand-up routine, make dicks out of play dough? Lol

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1 hour ago, Kiss my mutt said:

They could do a rap battle about JP like they did on Desiree’s season about Mesnick. That was fun. Maybe a slip and slide, goat yoga, do a stand-up routine, make dicks out of play dough? Lol

Talent show, lizard hunt, sleepover with Light as a Feather and underwear freezing, a camp out...

Seriously, though, why CAN'T they go out into the desert and do things away from other people?

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12 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Talent show, lizard hunt, sleepover with Light as a Feather and underwear freezing, a camp out...

Seriously, though, why CAN'T they go out into the desert and do things away from other people?

Lol soo funny! Camp Claire! 

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On 10/22/2020 at 1:24 PM, TVMovieBuff said:

The first minute I heard Clare was the new Bachelorette I thought it would be an interesting change, if her men were 36-45 (give or take) years old. A switch from the 24 year old bachelorette and the gaggle of 21-32 year old men. A whole new dynamic!

But it doesn't look that way now. Clare seems less mature than the usual 39 year old, and the men they have picked for her are too young. Let's just say it. 

If anything, COVID-19 has shown that reality shows like this, are way past time to just go quietly into the sunset. The people on them really don't care, or show such selfishness that people are honestly tuning out because it's gone from fantasy too: "I see this next door or at home, I don't watch this show to face reality, it's to escape." I mean Cops was put to bed after way too many riots from police offers honestly doing stupid things and people ignoring facts. After that happened, many asked why it lived past 2000 and later 2010 because it was the same thing, just a different place and year. That's what the Bachelor and Bachelorette have turned into. Just a joke and outside of ABC keeping Chris Harrison employed, the show needs to end. 

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I don’t think the show needs to end, it needs to go back to leads who can manage the narrative. Weak emotional people like Hannah and the idiot pilot are exhausting to watch. Give me Trista or that blonde haired guy with the giant head over these recent doofuses. 

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2 hours ago, readster said:

If anything, COVID-19 has shown that reality shows like this, are way past time to just go quietly into the sunset. The people on them really don't care...

I think it is time to bring back shows like Average Joe or Joe Millionaire. Just give us a gimmick that's entertaining rather than another group of wannabe influencers hoping to expand their followers. Hell I would take another season of Beauty and the Geek even.

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45 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

I don’t think the show needs to end, it needs to go back to leads who can manage the narrative. Weak emotional people like Hannah and the idiot pilot are exhausting to watch. Give me Trista or that blonde haired guy with the giant head over these recent doofuses. 

Tbh,  I’m not sure you can go back to that.  The whole joke about “right reasons” stopped making sense about the same time we stopped using quill pens.  The whole show has become a self-involved world of “bachelor nation” in which pretty much everyone who comes on has ulterior motives and the point is to be on tv.  Wanting to go back is like wanting to go back to when they played World Series games only during the day time because it is better for the players and we all listened on radio,

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2 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

Tbh,  I’m not sure you can go back to that.  The whole joke about “right reasons” stopped making sense about the same time we stopped using quill pens.  The whole show has become a self-involved world of “bachelor nation” in which pretty much everyone who comes on has ulterior motives and the point is to be on tv.  Wanting to go back is like wanting to go back to when they played World Series games only during the day time because it is better for the players and we all listened on radio,

God how depressing is it that adults acting rational and having self confidence is equated with old timey stuff like quill pens? Yes, yes, I know it’s 2020 and the kids eat ass now. 

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9 hours ago, lynxfx said:

I think it is time to bring back shows like Average Joe or Joe Millionaire. Just give us a gimmick that's entertaining rather than another group of wannabe influencers hoping to expand their followers. Hell I would take another season of Beauty and the Geek even.

I LOVED Average Joe...

TBH, I haven't liked a bachelorette since Meredith. 

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I haven't truly liked a Bachelorette since Trista or a Bachelor since Andrew Firestone.   And yet I watch every season!    It must be for the snark.   Yes, it's definitely for the snark.   😎  

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23 hours ago, lynxfx said:

I think it is time to bring back shows like Average Joe or Joe Millionaire. Just give us a gimmick that's entertaining rather than another group of wannabe influencers hoping to expand their followers. Hell I would take another season of Beauty and the Geek even.

Love Island is about as close to “fun” that these shows can get (low stakes, pretty peoples, lots of twists to keep people from playing too many games). They just need to cast better people. This season sucked. 
 

Joe Millionaire had a great premise, but they screwed it up by thinking anybody actually cared whether the guy found a relationship. We wanted to watch vapid, superficial, gold diggers fight over a guy who they didn’t know wasn’t rich. Instead they had the guy vote those women off. 

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I didn’t like Andi or Rachel, but I thought they were competent leads. I think you need a good lead and a mixed bag of combatants. We just had high maintenance Hannah and Mamas boy Peter, so I feel there needed to be a palate cleanser. So yeah, they trot out Clare. Who is like all the bad parts of Deanna and Hannah. 

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This episode is classic Clare. Everything I've ever seen her in she is just so dramatic. Didn't she talk to a racoon once on BIP? 

Nicki(Juan Pablo's ex) was not lying when she said Clare is emotionally unstable and she is praying for the guy she ends up with. 

 

The sad thing is there is a part of me that is still somehow rooting for her to get her act together and get a great relationship out of this smh.

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On 10/20/2020 at 9:36 PM, CindyBee said:

This is her FIFTH bachelor franchise show and she's crazy and falls in love after 10 mins.   And a producer pet.  So when the show knew they wouldn't be traveling and would have to film at a stationary location, they went with someone who they knew would be all over the place.

Wait really the 5th? Why not give someone else a chance?

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44 minutes ago, Guiltypleasure25 said:

Wait really the 5th? Why not give someone else a chance?

Bachelor 

Bachelor in Paradise x 2

Bachelor Winter Games

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