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S16.E02: Week 2

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Wow. Next week will truly be the most dramatic episode in Bachelorette history!

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Next week truly looks like it will be the Most Dramatic Episode Ever! 

You were impressed by fencegate? Clare hops over several parked cars and a semi truck!

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If you told me Clare could be as bad as Peter, I’d say no way in hell. But here we are. Now, I like Clare much more than Peter. She could be a better lead. She has more substance, has lived life, has sex appeal and chem with the men, can carry a conversation but boy when she’s baaad she’s baaad. She flipped her shit twice on the second episode because the men were ... not aggressively pursuing her on day two...didn’t know her on day two., i.e. google her. Good grief. 

Has any lead rewarded a contestant for crashing a date? She is very insecure and needs all the men to love her IMMEDIATELY 

Dale is meh to me. There are better men in this group.

All that said, this is must watch TV. Don’t like Yosef but will enjoy watching him and Clare go at it.  This whole episode was classless and all the other men are terrified of her.

Edited by dirtypop90
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Bennett seems funny. That’s about the only positive I could find for this episode. 

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30 minutes ago, CindyBee said:

This is her FIFTH bachelor franchise show and she's crazy and falls in love after 10 mins.   And a producer pet.  So when the show knew they wouldn't be traveling and would have to film at a stationary location, they went with someone who they knew would be all over the place.

She was cast before Covid did its number on the show. At the time, this season was going to be business as usual. The real reason she was cast was because not a single woman on Peter's season was deemed suitable. And they weren't wrong. That and they felt an older lead would be a welcome break from the legions of 24 year old influencers infesting the show. But while Clare certainly has the years, she and maturity have never been in the same zip code. 

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So how happy is Matt James right now?!  He got picked to be on Clare's season, a pandemic hit so filming was delayed then ABC decided well maybe we should kinda acknowledge how white this show has been for 40 seasons so he gets picked to be the lead without having to deal with Clare.  

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After last weeks surprisingly good start, this episode fizzled into awkwardness and lameness. Clare is so painfully and obviously desperate that she loses her shit whenever the guys are not devoting every second to her, and her dates, like asking the guys to get into their deepest issues and traumas and that super uncomfortable and creepy strip dodgeball dont seem like fun at all, they just seem weirdly degrading. That strip dodgeball game was nasty tacky stuff, even by this franchises shameless standards, and it made Clare look like an immature creep. Clare still has her moments, she can at least hold a real conversation, but the more we see of her, the more I dont like what I see. 

On the other hand, I love all of the bromances that are already forming, I really missed that the last few seasons. I kind of expect almost all of the guys to just leave the hotel and Clare to all hang out together.

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9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

After last weeks surprisingly good start, this episode fizzled into awkwardness and lameness. Clare is so painfully and obviously desperate that she loses her shit whenever the guys are not devoting every second to her, and her dates, like asking the guys to get into their deepest issues and traumas and that super uncomfortable and creepy strip dodgeball dont seem like fun at all, they just seem weirdly degrading. That strip dodgeball game was nasty tacky stuff, even by this franchises shameless standards, and it made Clare look like an immature creep. Clare still has her moments, she can at least hold a real conversation, but the more we see of her, the more I dont like what I see. 

On the other hand, I love all of the bromances that are already forming, I really missed that the last few seasons. I kind of expect almost all of the guys to just leave the hotel and Clare to all hang out together.

By the end of it, I think the guys will take her up on just hanging out with each other. 

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Oh, and shoutout to the best part of the night: Clare saying that it wouldn't be fair to, like, Chasen? And Jason?

Is this like the dude version of the Hayleigh/Bayleigh/Kayleigh (but the P is silent) trend? I can't wait for Mason and Dayson and... Tayson (?) to show up in a week. 

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21 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Damn it, I'm watching this now, aren't I? Ugh. Just reserve my spot here every Tuesday, I guess. Schadenfreude goes well with tacos. 

One of us! One of us! One of us! 

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1 hour ago, Suzysite said:

Strip dodgeball is just classless.  Imagine if it were the bachelor telling a bunch of women they have to strip.  

I totally agree.  It's gross and exploitive no matter what gender is involved.  I cringed when she said the next day:  "It's all in good fun, right?"  as every skeevy person who knows they just bullied someone says.  I really, really do not like her.  I think I'm done.  But I will have to wait till Yoseph tells her exactly what he thinks of her, because I'm with him all the way.  Just because she's the bachelorette doesn't mean she can do anything she wants to these poor guys.  I know it wasn't her idea, but she went along.  Yuck.  

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Clare seems very insecure.  There was a conversation with one of the guys where she was defending her age and experience.  Okay, she is not 25, but if that was such a big deal to her, why did she choose to go on this stupid show? I don't get it.  

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So who do we think walked by yelling in the preview that he expected more from the oldest bachelorette?  Can anyone tell?  

 

Edited by SeeSee
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1 minute ago, SeeSee said:

So who do we think walked by yelling that he expected more from the oldest bachelorette?  Can anyone tell?  

 

I think that was Yosef after his “talk” with Claire

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1 minute ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I think that was Yosef after his “talk” with Claire

Oh!  I didn't think that was his voice.  That may make me jump off the Yoseph train.  

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Love languages, starting with verbal affirmation. The idea is the way you express your love to your partner.  Its not about how you can string words together to someone you just met. None of these guys know her yet, but she thinks their words are sincere. They're supposed to express love before dating her.

And gifts? We're supposed to believe that the guys were told to rifle through their suitcases and find some random thing they could present as a gift? I'm not buying it.

The Dodge ball game reminded me of a  bachelor episode where the women had to strip down and do a photoshoot, holding posters. One woman did not want to, and was talked into it ("its for charity!")   I just find it disrespectful.  If this show is supposed to be about "love", why does she have to see them all naked BEFORE getting to know them?

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9 minutes ago, SeeSee said:

It's gross and exploitive no matter what gender is involved.  I cringed when she said the next day:  "It's all in good fun, right?"  as every skeevy person who knows they just bullied someone says.

I'm sure Weinstein said the same thing when he was tucking his dick back into his pants. 

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48 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

...so am I supposed to like Clare? Because most of the time she's being over the top ridiculous and bringing up every moment she can to *sniff* talk about *gasp, blink away the tears* her dad *voice crack* DYING *small sob* in front of her (in response to being told she looks pretty tonight).

That is what I'm wondering also!  She doesn't seem like too much fun to be around. 

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37 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Oh, and shoutout to the best part of the night: Clare saying that it wouldn't be fair to, like, Chasen? And Jason?

Is this like the dude version of the Hayleigh/Bayleigh/Kayleigh (but the P is silent) trend? I can't wait for Mason and Dayson and... Tayson (?) to show up in a week. 

Grayson. 🤣

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And once again, Blake gets rewarded for breaking the rules and she just  encourages him to be pushy and entitled to her time and who knows what other “rules” he’d be willing to break. She sees it as a compliment to her desirability, but I see it as a guy who doesn’t like to be told “no” to. 

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CLare needs to cut the guys some slack.  they've been locked up in quarantine, and then they're having a conversation, and they didn't get the message that the time for "can I steal you?"  starts NOW.  SHe was setting the agenda, and they were waiting for a cue.  

the "therapy session date"  was painful to watch.  

Claire is SO hung up on her season with Juan Pablo, she just cannot stop bringing it up.  SHe certainly comes across as needing a LOT of reassurance and admiration.  these guys should know, if she ever gets married, she will be the kind of wife who asks "am I pretty?  do you love me?   am I prettier than that girl?  how about that one? "

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Refresh is just 30 minutes into watching and there’s a lot of speaking in the 3rd person tonight. Yipes. 
 

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2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Ok Jason, this isn't actually a silly dating show...its a silly therapy session! Tell the world your feels right now damn it! 

See if that was me, thats when I peace out, but then I'm not on a reality show.

Claire is acting the way every other season's "crazy girl" behaved. Right from jump - too needy, too talky, too dramatic, too extra. And now this kind of (ahem) older woman is behaving like all the previous ones we rolled our eyes at and screamed to the guy RUN! Desperation is not a good look on anyone.

 

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Ok Jason, this isn't actually a silly dating show...its a silly therapy session! Tell the world your feels right now damn it! 

See if that was me, thats when I peace out, but then I'm not on a reality show.

 

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I think this season is all wrong for a few reasons. They have too many younger guys who are not interested in a woman Claire’s age, Claire is needy and insecure and not finding the guys overly interested and they don’t have much to do because of Covid.

And they have done similar get undressed or wear bikinis with the women in the Bachelor. I’m sure the leads have nothing to do with picking the dates. I suppose they could refuse to participate but they likely have a contract where they agree to whatever is presented. 

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3 hours ago, saber5055 said:

The guy next to him who did get the date looks like that one Bachelor who keeps coming back every season. I'll have to work on his name ...

Derek? The one who got engaged ( and later broke up) on BIP with Miss Emotionally Intelligent chick who had just graduated with her Master's degree in Psych?

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13 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

this season is all wrong for a few reasons. They have too many younger guys who are not interested in a woman Claire’s age,

I guess it’s just general wrong reasons guys who are on every season? I don’t think there are any more than usual.

They all knew who she was and how old she is and presumably had months to bail on the show, not return to filming.   Especially since there’s no traveling this year, why would they  bother? Wrong reasons I guess. 
 

ETA: agree that the volleyball date was inappropriate. 

Edited by Refresh
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49 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

And they have done similar get undressed or wear bikinis with the women in the Bachelor. I’m sure the leads have nothing to do with picking the dates. I suppose they could refuse to participate but they likely have a contract where they agree to whatever is presented. 

It's not necessarily the strip dodgeball game that's the issue although it's the easiest thing to point to because it's pretty in your face. They clearly did not have to completely strip down - if someone refused to remove their shorts, I'm sure Clare would have made noises about how she respects that (and the edit would have played it as wacky and humourous). We saw that when the one guy didn't want to remove his jock after one guy whipped his off with bravado and one guy just took his off. However, it's the asking for a hug afterwards and getting in their personal space - while they're exposed - that's an abuse of power. Again, I'm sure that they could have refused and Clare would have made understanding noises about it but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a mark against them. And I joked about "pelvic social distancing" in one of my posts above but from the camera angles and editing presented to us, Clare really didn't allow for much physical distancing while she hugged them (to be fair, I think we only saw two hugs). And then the next day, when she shows up and talks about how it was "all in good fun": that's something abusers say to those that they abuse in order to justify it and make the abused question whether it is abuse or not.

There's a decent chance that Clare isn't a sexual predator and that her behaviour is actually the behaviour that women have had to endure over... well, probably since we first crawled out of the pool of ooze, and you could actually argue it as a reversal of traditional male/female power positions. A lot of times, people are okay with the same behaviour if it is a reversal of the traditional story but really, sexual harassment is sexual harassment and abuse of power is abuse of power. In the age of #MeToo and all these stories of people in power positions using that power to force other people to do sexual things that they don't feel comfortable with but also feel like they can't argue against because it might hurt them/their standing/their job, I don't think it should be allowed no matter who is in the aggressor position or if it's been allowed previously.

The fact that the show played it as a joke while also treating it with the teeniest bit of gravitas is... well, kinda gross on its own. It feels gross to applaud them for at least showing, however small, the bad side of it while also making sure to make lots of juvenile ball jokes - and God knows I love a ball joke but damn

I suppose there could also be an argument made that, like the "dates", a producer told Clare to ask for the hugs and fed her that "all in good fun" line but I don't know the show well enough to know if that happens. I know reality TV enough to know that it's possible but also that Clare is also a person and is making choices to say or do these things regardless of whatever the producers want so if she's not to blame, she's at least normalizing behaviour like this and presenting it as okay and playful to the audience. 

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8 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Yosef is an angry angry man. I’m glad he stuck up for himself but you can do that without hurling personal insults and foaming at the mouth. I know they do background checks but they must have missed something with that ticking time bomb. 
Claire saying she’s single because she doesn’t put up with that shit. Yeah, right, you’ve shown time and time again that you do and you only leave when you get dumped. 
p.s. I don’t like Dale either, but frankly at this point, I dislike more of them than I’m okay with at this point, but unfortunately I’ll never know unless they stay after Tayesha get there. Wonder if they’ll use the same lines on her. 

Thank you for saying that . Clare was ready to accept Juan Pablo’s proposal and has shown on national tv several times how desparate she is . She is single because of her desperation and neediness , not because she is so “ picky” and doesn’t “ put up with shit “. It’s sad to see really . She definitely is very high maintenance , but watching her i really hope and pray this works out for her . I want her to be happy !!

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9 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

No way! Clare is in love ... too bad Dale isn't.  She is every desperate woman at a family wedding... beautiful but every guy there hears her ticking clock.  

What they SHOULD have done is gotten handsome, successful divorced 50-year-old guys willing to give Clare a baby... THOSE are the guys attracted to her, not 30-year-old guys who want to date 22-year-olds.  I will say, though, they picked out some real lookers as compared to some seasons.

 

I’m marveling at the “ anasthesiologist “, the “ lawyer “ and others who quarantined for how long ? Those are some impressive job titles!

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If a bunch of naked dudes came in and sat down on my couch, I would commit to standing the rest of my time on the show. They make masks for your privates, guys -- they're called "underwear".

Clare would be interesting to date for about a month. But that month would be one turbulent five years.

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23 minutes ago, phlebas said:

If a bunch of naked dudes came in and sat down on my couch, I would commit to standing the rest of my time on the show. They make masks for your privates, guys -- they're called "underwear".

Clare would be interesting to date for about a month. But that month would be one turbulent five years.

That's why I related to Bennett when he said the couch needs to be cleaned after that and he didn't look like he was completely joking either.

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13 minutes ago, waving feather said:

That's why I related to Bennett when he said the couch needs to be cleaned after that and he didn't look like he was completely joking either.

I think he mispronounced "burned."  Was that thing suede?

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8 hours ago, Refresh said:

I guess it’s just general wrong reasons guys who are on every season? I don’t think there are any more than usual.

They all knew who she was and how old she is and presumably had months to bail on the show, not return to filming.   Especially since there’s no traveling this year, why would they  bother? Wrong reasons I guess. 
 

ETA: agree that the volleyball date was inappropriate. 

Many of these guys seem to not know who Claire is, so I’m going with they did not know who they would be dating. Of course they are mostly wrong reasons, but they would show more interest if the Bachelorette was 25. 

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10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Blake gets special rules because he's special apparently.

Nah, rule breakers and their consequences depends entirely on how much the lead likes them. Clare clearly needs someone to drop everything and run to her side, which is why she's liked him since they spoke before the show. If that ended up being some dude she didn't like breaking the rule of crashing the party which we've seen in the past, (say the dude she kicked off), he would have been pushed back and eliminated. 

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I feel like a fool for thinking the Clare Show would be a nice change with a mature woman,  forgetting that maturity is not a number.  What a hot mess she turned out to be, and it all showed up in one episode.

The love language date was so wrong, the men didn't understand that  the "affirmations" were supposed to be about Clare not themselves,  and Clare is so needy she somehow heard them as about her and cried over it.

Then we had Jason's therapy session.  His parents should sue the show for telling the world their marriage is so bad both sons are ruined.  All the time he and Clare were reading the negative words about themselves, I was remembering, "When people tell you who they are, believe them."

The strip dodge ball was equal parts wrong and silly.

Clare?  They didn't stand up and have a fist fight over who would be first to "steal you for a minute" because they didn't get the signal yet.  Doesn't this show have a stage director?  

I blame Hannah Brown for most of this.  She set records for popularity because she was always yelling at the men.  I think Clare has got it in her head that's she's going to be the new "strong woman" only all she has to go with is that she was at her father's bedside when he died (as relatives often are) and her hissy fit at Juan Pablo. 

She was so mad a that poor bewildered  Brandon.  She sent him home just for saying he wanted to be on the show because she was so beautiful and not  saying it was because of her "drive" and "standing up for herself."  Clare thinks everyone should be so impressed with the Juan Pablo thing, but we haven't  forgotten that thirty seconds before she called him a horrible person who could never father her children, she was going to accept his proposal.

She likes all the guys I can't stand, like  Blake, the rule breaker who talks like a little boy.  He's the type who would break promises to his wife and then give her a bunch of flattering bull shit as a reason.  

She likes  Riley, the hot head who wanted to fight Yosef simply for saying, "I think I speak for all of us when I say we are all here for you," or some such. Riley may actually have the most in common with Clare, they both like making noise just for the attention.

Dale's not that into her.

What about that gleaming zipper up the back of Clare's blue dress?  Are metal zippers making a come back?

 

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14 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Many of these guys seem to not know who Claire is, so I’m going with they did not know who they would be dating. Of course they are mostly wrong reasons, but they would show more interest if the Bachelorette was 25. 

I think her age is definitely part of the reason but she won't shut up about it either.  Also, I get the impression that she wants any guy and all guys to worship the ground she walks on.

I'm sure the producers did it, but why burn the dress and not donate it? If she hated it, why did she keep it for six years? but who knows if it really was the same dress.

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21 minutes ago, weightyghost said:

Nah, rule breakers and their consequences depends entirely on how much the lead likes them. Clare clearly needs someone to drop everything and run to her side, which is why she's liked him since they spoke before the show. If that ended up being some dude she didn't like breaking the rule of crashing the party which we've seen in the past, (say the dude she kicked off), he would have been pushed back and eliminated. 

In all fairness Blake said “ she wants to see who has balls”. Well that took balls . Seriously this season reminds me of deannas because she was so mad at the guys because she was such a sourpuss over brad, clearly not over him and i see the same . Claire is so combative and needy with a. Capital N so anyone who asserts himself with her is a hero in her eyes. Dale is cute and i really really hope he really cares for her . Bennet i would watch in a spin off. That special room with the fireplace and the shoes just cracked me up.

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1 hour ago, waving feather said:

That's why I related to Bennett when he said the couch needs to be cleaned after that and he didn't look like he was completely joking either.

If you had told me last week after Bennett came in wearing his stupid scarf and name dropping Harvard that he'd turn into one of my favorites by week 2, I would have thought you crazy. 

 Def someone that is getting better for me the more he is shown, which is a rare for this show.

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11 hours ago, CindyBee said:

very small voice--I don't like Dale.  

I hate him. His ears are too small and his voice/manner of speaking is SO bad. I feel like she has the hots for him simply because he's tall, which I get it but girl open your eyes/ears!

This episode was way too much cringe with very little humor to make up for it. I watched pretty much all of it with my shirt over my face honestly.

I'm obsessed with Bennett though. I hope he lasts awhile and we keep seeing him.

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30 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm obsessed with Bennett though. I hope he lasts awhile and we keep seeing him.

Is he the one that had the best room at the resort? Fireplaces, kitchen, big bathroom....

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Emily could give Clare some lessons on how to be a bachelorette, for sure!

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1 minute ago, OnTime said:

Is he the one that had the best room at the resort? Fireplaces, kitchen, big bathroom....

Yes! I want to know how he scored the best room there. I guess a Harvard degree does open some doors! 
 

This episode with the therapy session reminded me of when Juan Pablo’s family was trying to warn Claire about him and she smiles and acts like that sounds wonderful! Her sister Lara seems like a bitch but she may be the only one that has Claire’s number when it comes to her history with men. 
 

It looks like next week, Dale gets the roasting of his life as the pissing contest continues. 

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Wow Clare is a serious train wreck.....very easy to see why she is single at 39.   She simply cannot get over herself and gets this scary look in her eyes when she is about to "turn" like she did with Brandon and on the guys who dared to not try to steal her away after 30 seconds.   She sees herself as being such a strong woman but in reality she is a control freak.   I don't see her lasting with anyone for the long term.

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Why are these men walking around carrying their junk in their hand? Ew. I know the jock strap exposes a lot, but I would not want them touching things around the house before some good hand washing. With SOAP.

3 minutes ago, neece26 said:

She simply cannot get over herself and gets this scary look in her eyes when she is about to "turn" like she did with Brandon and on the guys who dared to not try to steal her away after 30 seconds.   She sees herself as being such a strong woman but in reality she is a control freak.

Hannah Brown is the younger version of Clare. Hannah Brown also had that almost spiteful look in her eyes before she went in on someone during her season. She even did that to her parents, if I recall correctly, because they were doubtful about Jed, her F1. And both are ALL about forcing the men to "open up" about their "ugly/dark side" unnaturally. Hannah was berating Luke P. during their first date just because he wasn't opening up his deepest and darkest desires to her.

Edited by waving feather
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I really wanted to like Dale. He is good looking,  but I don’t care for his voice and he isn’t articulate.

Clare said ”Dale and I’s relationship”.  She is semi-dead to me now.

The strip dodgeball pissed me off.  In the age of “MeToo”, shouldn’t we be a little better than this?

The therapy date was super cringy.  I could/would never tell a first date all my innermost secrets and feelings and insecurities.  Especially on TV.  What were they thinking?  This is the kind of thing that follows you after the filming stops.

The statement I thought of when she lost her shit at the group date’s lack of stealing her.  “I’m so sorry Clare. This is our first one.  We didn’t know it was time to start. Can I steal you for a sec?”

Worst franchise dates EVAH

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