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kariyaki

S02.E08: What I Know

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I actually thought they were going to have The Boys raise Ryan for a sec. Otherwise, aren't they just creating Homelander 2.0 by sending him off with the CIA? He's just killed his mother and found out his superhero father is a monster. Sure he doesn't really know Billy and Billy would probably be a shit dad but that just brings his daddy issues full circle. Plus, it would forever tie him to Homelander. Raising the son of his greatest enemy. 

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I did not see Neuman being the head exploder Supe. I'm guessing she works Vaught or at least Edgar. 

I wish they had done more with the girls get done scene. Stormfront should've supercharged Annie. As for Maeve showing up she could've followed Stormfront after the Nazi reveal, they showed her briefly when Stormfront walked through Vaught after the story leaked. Or if they actually give her a storyline and follow the comic one it could be explained. 

Kimiko surviving a neck snap is because she's the strongest Supe since she can't die. She's basically Deadpool. 

I'm thinking Ryan's powers are stronger than Homelanders. Is Mallory going to be raising him or are they going to put him in a lab and make Homelander 2.0. 

Also what was the point of the Scientology trip off since he just exploded. 

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On 10/9/2020 at 10:33 PM, mac123x said:

That had to have been a deliberate visual reference, right?

That's what I was thinking.  As soon as saw it I just thought "Anakin Skywalker" are we getting Darth Vader next?

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10 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Since Stormfront is apparently the wife of Frederick Vought, the founder of corporate Vought, presumably she holds a fair amount of stock and sway with Vought the corporate entity.

The show explicitly told us that Stormfront had been the supe knowns as Liberty back in the day. Presumably she periodically assumed new Supe identities to cover the fact that she a) didn't age and b) was a Nazi.

I think it is pretty clear that the Congresswoman is working for/with Vought. She apparently does not consider the Boys a real threat. As, frankly, well she shouldn't. Aside from killing Translucent, what have the Boys really accomplished against Vought without inside help? They made the existence of Compound V public (needing Starlight's help). As Edgar said, inconvenient but didn't really hurt Vought. They lined up Lamplighter and Vogelbaum to testify. Both dealt with fairly easily. They exposed Stormfront as a Nazi (with A-Train's help)  

It is clear that Vought could have the Boys killed any time it wanted to. Black Noir spared them at Edgar's command earlier in the season. A-Train easily found Starlight and Hughie in this episode and could presumably easily have found the Boys any time he wanted to. Homelander obviously could find the boys with his abilities. And even excluding Supes, Vought has plenty of resources that it could use to track and kill the Boys if it wanted to. It simply does not want to.

They make kind of a convenient enemy possibly?  Keeping them around in case they need a scapegoat for something else maybe.

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54 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

As for Mauve showing up....

Maeve, mauve is a color.

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I enjoyed the ending although I have no idea why Victoria Neuman, a supe herself, was on this anti-supe crusade, unless it's all some kind of plot by Vought.

I really hope we have seen the last of Stormfront, although I could easily see them somehow regrowing her cells or something and she will be back in flinty form next season.  However, at this point, the pubic has turned against her, so it wouldn't make any sense if she got back onto the Seven.

One thing that confuses me is when the file was released and they showed photos of her with Vought, why the public automatically assumed that it was her without even having read the file.  It could have been her grandmother who looked just like her. 

I would assume that Ryan has a chip in him, but even if he didn't, can't Homelander easily find him again?  I don't understand how Mallory is planning on keeping him safe.

 

6 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Anyone surprised they had Ryan kill his own mother? That was a bit rough.

I thought Stormfront killed her?  Stormfront was choking her out.  I assumed that Becca had a crushed windpipe or something.  They could have had Stormfront just snap her neck but they made sure to have her say something about how she enjoys seeing the light fade from the eyes.  So I thought Becca's windpipe was crushed and she was slowly dying.

On 10/9/2020 at 7:57 PM, Quickbeam said:

I gotta see The Deep win one along the way. Too much piling on. I enjoyed Stormfront’s remaining bits muttering in German. 

Agreed, I think the ending for him was the most unsatisfying to me.  All season long he has been on a redemption arc, and then it just didn't deliver.  Plus, aren't they still down a few members?  It was Homelander, Queen Maeve, Black Noir, A Train, The Deep and Translucent to start.  They brought in Starlight to fill the empty slot that Lamplighter had.  Translucent died.  Stormfront joined.  A Train and The Deep both get kicked out.  Starlight goes "traitor" but then rejoins.  A Train is welcomed back.  Black Noir is in a coma.  Stormfront is... indisposed or something.  So there are only four active members right now.

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They should have used “Still,” by the Geto Boys when Maeve, Female & Starlight were kicking the shit out of Stormfront.

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9 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

They make kind of a convenient enemy possibly?  Keeping them around in case they need a scapegoat for something else maybe.

That makes sense to have the Boys as a paper tiger. But exonerating the Boys doesn't make sense at all from an in-universe perspective. They did still actually kill Translucent and Butcher still "killed" Stillwell. I can't fanwank a reason for Vought to no longer pursue charges against the Boys other than "We want to tell stories now that result from them no longer being wanted criminals, like Hughie working for Neumann." I guess it is possible that Mallory pulled enough strings to give them a clean slate so that they can openly work for/with her.

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

I enjoyed the ending although I have no idea why Victoria Neuman, a supe herself, was on this anti-supe crusade, unless it's all some kind of plot by Vought.

I really hope we have seen the last of Stormfront, although I could easily see them somehow regrowing her cells or something and she will be back in flinty form next season.  However, at this point, the pubic has turned against her, so it wouldn't make any sense if she got back onto the Seven.

One thing that confuses me is when the file was released and they showed photos of her with Vought, why the public automatically assumed that it was her without even having read the file.  It could have been her grandmother who looked just like her. 

I would assume that Ryan has a chip in him, but even if he didn't, can't Homelander easily find him again?  I don't understand how Mallory is planning on keeping him safe.

 

I thought Stormfront killed her?  Stormfront was choking her out.  I assumed that Becca had a crushed windpipe or something.  They could have had Stormfront just snap her neck but they made sure to have her say something about how she enjoys seeing the light fade from the eyes.  So I thought Becca's windpipe was crushed and she was slowly dying.

Agreed, I think the ending for him was the most unsatisfying to me.  All season long he has been on a redemption arc, and then it just didn't deliver.  Plus, aren't they still down a few members?  It was Homelander, Queen Maeve, Black Noir, A Train, The Deep and Translucent to start.  They brought in Starlight to fill the empty slot that Lamplighter had.  Translucent died.  Stormfront joined.  A Train and The Deep both get kicked out.  Starlight goes "traitor" but then rejoins.  A Train is welcomed back.  Black Noir is in a coma.  Stormfront is... indisposed or something.  So there are only four active members right now.

Definitely think Neumann is working for/with Vought. The AV Club review was upset that the show is creating a false equivalence between Nazi villain this season and SJW/progressive villain being set up for next. I don't think that they are wrong.

We hope the public has turned against her. But more to the point, Vought has turned against her. If not, Stormfront could get another makeover and be back in the mix of things.

Things were shortcutted for us the viewers because we know that Stormfront was indeed a Nazi. Since the files date back to the 40s, presumably they have some more concrete proof that it was indeed Stormfront and not a relative who was hanging with Himmler and married to Vought, and that proof was also conveyed in the news stories.

Homelander could easily find Ryan again if he wants to, but he is being kept in check by the notion that Maeve will release the video of him letting a plane full of people die and thus cost him the public adoration that he needs. Of course, once Homelander figures out how to counter that threat, all bets are off....

Mallory is planning to keep Ryan safe from Vought and whoever else might want to exploit an immature godling. Of course, who is to say that the CIA doesn't have its own plans to exploit an immature godling...

We didn't see the actual blast(s), but Ryan hit Stormfront while she was choking Becca. My interpretation is that in doing so, he caused Stormfront to kill Becca by breaking her neck or cutting blood vessels in her neck.  My issue is that dismembering Stormfront requires a level of control that is inconsistent with a first-time blaster.

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3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

But exonerating the Boys doesn't make sense at all from an in-universe perspective.

There are a few things that do not seem to add up.  Vought was happy that sales of Compound-V were about to skyrocket. The Boys exposed Stormfront and supposedly stopped the escalation of fear of Supe-Villains.  The Boys were also instrumental in exposing the Supes as products of Vought using Compound-V.  (Tho I did think someone else was going to be responsible for that press leak - Hughie and Starlight seemed surprised.)  The Boys also helped expose Vought+Homelander for creating foreign Supe-Villains with Compound-V to justify The Seven being given military status.
After all that, why would Vought suddenly be okay with The Boys still existing?  Also, their identities are public knowledge now. Hughie should not be able to return to regular civilian life.  Not sure, but I think The Boys remained a clandestine task force in the comics.

Edited by shrewd.buddha

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9 hours ago, blackwing said:

So I thought Becca's windpipe was crushed and she was slowly dying

She was bleeding out. My theory is that when Ryan blasted Stormfront she reflexively ripped into Becca's neck

Edited by Morrigan2575
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I think it is pretty clear that the Congresswoman is working for/with Vought. She apparently does not consider the Boys a real threat. As, frankly, well she shouldn't. Aside from killing Translucent, what have the Boys really accomplished against Vought without inside help? They made the existence of Compound V public (needing Starlight's help). As Edgar said, inconvenient but didn't really hurt Vought. They lined up Lamplighter and Vogelbaum to testify. Both dealt with fairly easily. They exposed Stormfront as a Nazi (with A-Train's help)  

I think both Edgar and Neuman find The Boys useful in that their ultimate agenda seems to be more or less the same: turning the public against Supes. On paper it doesn't make sense for Edgar to want to do that and yet that does seem to be what he's doing for whatever reason. That's what Neuman has been all about from the start, and Edgar almost certainly has to know she's a Supe which means he's in on it. 

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A couple of nice touches at the end:

Frenchy and Kimiko go out dancing (and I'm glad to see Kimiko finally open up to him.)

Starlight is back in her old uniform. 

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On 10/11/2020 at 9:06 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

There are a few things that do not seem to add up.  Vought was happy that sales of Compound-V were about to skyrocket. The Boys exposed Stormfront and supposedly stopped the escalation of fear of Supe-Villains.  The Boys were also instrumental in exposing the Supes as products of Vought using Compound-V.  (Tho I did think someone else was going to be responsible for that press leak - Hughie and Starlight seemed surprised.)  The Boys also helped expose Vought+Homelander for creating foreign Supe-Villains with Compound-V to justify The Seven being given military status.
After all that, why would Vought suddenly be okay with The Boys still existing?  Also, their identities are public knowledge now. Hughie should not be able to return to regular civilian life.  Not sure, but I think The Boys remained a clandestine task force in the comics.

It's entirely possible, indeed probable, that Vought has no idea of the Boys' involvement in outing Stormfront as a Nazi. If we take the narrative on its face, A-Train on his own gave Hughie and Starlight - -whoops, Freudian slip -- the information to pass along and told them to keep him out of it. Not!L.Ron knows that A-Train must have been involved because he recognized that the info came from their blackmail archives and the lack of video evidence means a speedster had to be involved. So there's no reason for Vought to suspect the Boys were involved. Come to think of it, there's no reason for the Boys to have been involved other than they are Our Heroes. There are probably a half-dozen ways A-Train could have done the leak without involving them -- directly talking to a reporter as A-Train and requiring confidentiality, disguising himself and dong the same, literally dropping the materials off and disappearing,...

I don't think the public knows that Homelander has been creating super-villains, and I don't think the Boys had a role beyond letting the public know that Vought has created Compound V. It stands to reason that if supes are created and not made, that any Supe terrorists were created by someone. Whetther it's been spun that the enemy has developed its own version of Compound V or the doses used to create enemy Supes comes from stolen Compound V, I don't know/remember. But I can't remember any scene that showed that the public thinks Vought is responsible for the creation of supervillains. 

Edited by Chicago Redshirt
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16 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I wish they had done more with the girls get done scene. Stormfront should've supercharged Annie.

I think she low-key was at least the source of those zaps Annie was throwing in the fight. We've seen that power comes from Starlight drawing in electricity from the environment, and in the middle of a cow pasture or wherever that fight went down Stormfront herself was the only apparent significant source of it. It may be that the mechanism of Annie's powers can drain it from whatever passive sources are around her, but not deal with a concentrated blast of lightning actually hitting her.

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On 10/9/2020 at 6:29 AM, GustavMahler said:

I really enjoy seeing Giancarlo Esposito, but whether it is here or the Mandalorian, I cannot help but thinking "Fring-Lite".

Yes, as compelling as he is as an actor, he is either kind of a one trick pony or he is getting type cast.

A lot of this could have functioned as a series finale, which surprised me.  I know they are doing a season 3. 

Anthony Starr is such a good actor.

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13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think both Edgar and Neuman find The Boys useful in that their ultimate agenda seems to be more or less the same: turning the public against Supes. On paper it doesn't make sense for Edgar to want to do that and yet that does seem to be what he's doing for whatever reason. That's what Neuman has been all about from the start, and Edgar almost certainly has to know she's a Supe which means he's in on it. 

It seems like it's all about money.  Maybe they feel they've made as much as they can with the whole Super hero thing?  They've been working on stabilizing compound V, Stormfront may have been doing it for her master race, but Edgar may have been doing it so eventually they can sell it to anyone who can pay enough for it.  Up until now they've been giving it to random kids and paying their parents and then using the Supes they grow up into to make them money.  They could probably make more with it as a "legitimate" pharmaceutical.

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I think she low-key was at least the source of those zaps Annie was throwing in the fight. We've seen that power comes from Starlight drawing in electricity from the environment, and in the middle of a cow pasture or wherever that fight went down Stormfront herself was the only apparent significant source of it. It may be that the mechanism of Annie's powers can drain it from whatever passive sources are around her, but not deal with a concentrated blast of lightning actually hitting her.

I can't help but think the writers didn't think it through, though. When Stormfront blasted her with lightning bolts, Starlight was repelled and flung into the air just like anyone else (although less damaged because she's a Supe). So either the writers didn't think "Hey wouldn't Starlight just absorb this electricity and turn it back on her?" because it didn't occur to them or they just thought it would be too easy and preferred the girl-on-girl beat down instead.

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On 10/10/2020 at 5:58 PM, Shorty186 said:

I actually thought they were going to have The Boys raise Ryan for a sec. Otherwise, aren't they just creating Homelander 2.0 by sending him off with the CIA? He's just killed his mother and found out his superhero father is a monster. Sure he doesn't really know Billy and Billy would probably be a shit dad but that just brings his daddy issues full circle. Plus, it would forever tie him to Homelander. Raising the son of his greatest enemy. 

I think it would have been way more interesting to have Butcher and Co. have Ryan underfoot and give a plausible reason why Vought/the Seven doesn't just slaughter them the second when Homelander thinks his way out of the blackmail Maeve has set up.

I would like to think that Ryan is already safe from being Homelander 2.0: he has known Becca's love, and he got shaped by her cultural tastes to like movies like Terms of Endearment and the Blind Side that emphasize empathy and support rather than glorifying, well, glory. Of course, all that is before the trauma of seeing his mom dead, being the indirect cause, dismembering someone, seeing his father covered in blood, processing, as one day he will, that he was trying to foist a Nazi as his new mother figure, etc. etc.

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Becca certainly built a good foundation, but I imagine there are plenty of ways to traumatize an 8-year-old boy into becoming a highly dysfunctional person. I hope whoever takes over his care will make sure that he knows he's not at fault for what happened to his mother, and that she willingly risked death to protect him.

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On 10/13/2020 at 6:38 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Of course, all that is before the trauma of seeing his mom dead, being the indirect cause, dismembering someone, seeing his father covered in blood, processing, as one day he will, that he was trying to foist a Nazi as his new mother figure, etc. etc.

Never mind being Homelander 2.0, this kid is on the path to pulling wings off flies and barbecuing kittens. Why did he even get in the car with all those absolute strangers?

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On 10/9/2020 at 3:51 PM, mac123x said:

Also, where did she keep her phone?  In a previous episode Stormfront complained that Vought didn't let them have pockets in their costumes, and her costume has twice as much material as Maeve's.  

Speaking as a (mostly) former goth who spent plenty of time tightlaced in leather corsets - you can stow an awful lot between and under your girls in one of those things. Phones, money, lighters, miniature liquor bottles. (I hereby disavow any admission of having done so with the latter. Ahem.)

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Absolutely fantastic season.

I must say, whilst this show is called The Boys, the women are probably the best part. 

Did not see that congresswomen being the one responsible for the exploding heads. Brilliant twist.

Definitely looking forward to next season.

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On 10/11/2020 at 10:42 PM, tessathereaper said:

It seems like it's all about money.  Maybe they feel they've made as much as they can with the whole Super hero thing?  They've been working on stabilizing compound V, Stormfront may have been doing it for her master race, but Edgar may have been doing it so eventually they can sell it to anyone who can pay enough for it.  Up until now they've been giving it to random kids and paying their parents and then using the Supes they grow up into to make them money.  They could probably make more with it as a "legitimate" pharmaceutical.

That was my guess it was sort of like George Reeves (Superman), Lou Ferrigno (The Incredible Hulk) or Linda Carters (Wonder Woman) shows could not be done today but back in the day were looked forward to. The supes needed antagonist worthy of them.  Trying to sell the V like a super anabolic steroid doesn't seem to fit their world as it stands now to me. 

On 10/11/2020 at 9:25 AM, arachne said:

 

Starlight is back in her old uniform. 

I also noticed they went to "super villain" instead of super terrorist

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