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S05.E10: Sorry... Not Sorry

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Karen hosts the ladies to hear Monique's side of what happened at the winery; Candiace seeks therapy to deal with the aftermath of the altercation; Monique attempts to apologize for getting physical.

Airs October 4, 2020.

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I'm dying at Gizelle's security. Hilarious. And I agree with Candiace regarding Karen. I understand not wanting to drop your friend because people make mistakes. However, Monique was WRONG. At least admit that, Karen. 

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Monique is totally wrong by going physical against Candiase, but good lord Gizelle is a straight up sanctimonious bitch!

Gizelle, go back to your ex Jamal "Peter, Peter Pumpkin eater" that neither your dad or your own girls can stand, good luck with that shit! Total fake ass bitch! Robyn you may want to climb out of her back pocket or you will get sat upon and smothered.

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Gizelle’s coochie conniving ass husband has no image to upkeep, I have never rolled my eyes so damn hard.

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Candiace should have been thrown off the show for the butter knife incident, and Monique should be off now. Now excuse for any of this behavior.

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Monique is still coming up with excuses on WWHL. She is unbelievable to me. Andy's trying to nudge her into how wrong she is. She's making things up, saying Candiace was throwing glasses. She's nuts. 

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Did Gizelle bring her Personal Security to protect her in the event of a fight or to physically prevent her from participating in one?

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I don't know who said it, but, I loved the "it's so D.C." comment.  Being DC myself, yes.  Yes, it was.

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Oh, classy Gizelle, and her image. Snerk.

The peanut gallery–minus me–was behind her last week. Tonight, she shows the world what a sterling example of Black womanhood can be. So inspiring, so positive. A true Nubian Queen. Double Snerk.

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Will someone please tell me what Monique said  at the end when she hugged Karen? She had such a devilish look on her face.

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26 minutes ago, dosodog said:

Robyn is 100 percent correct.  Monique is being condescending and defensive.  No remorse.  I think she believes what she did was okay because it was Candace. 

 

 

I hope Robyn is remorseful for rolling up at Oz at putting her hands in Ashley's face.

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9 minutes ago, rlc said:

Candiace should have been thrown off the show for the butter knife incident,

Candiace was in her own house with someone she told to leave.

And Ashley in general should just be quiet because by agreeing with Monique that sometimes you gotta beat a bitch's ass for running their mouth, she's opened up the door for HER ass to get beat the next time she runs HER mouth.  By her logic, both Robyn and Katie would've been justified in beating Ashley's ass.

7 minutes ago, Legalbeagle421 said:

Monique is still coming up with excuses on WWHL. She is unbelievable to me. Andy's trying to nudge her into how wrong she is. She's making things up, saying Candiace was throwing glasses. She's nuts. 

Monique is good as fired.  There was one moment on WWHL where I saw a flicker of "This bitch need to be fired" come across Andy's face.

Gizelle was ridiculous with saying being around Monique harms her and Jamal's image.  Jamal's wandering peen harms Jamal's image.

The new Wendy/Robyn/Gizelle trio wasn't having any of Monique's excuses, and they were excuses.  Monique remembered everything that happened and she's not sorry it happened.  Wendy gave her an appropriate read.

Candiace does not have any responsibility for Monique attacking her but she does have responsibility in the events that led up to the fight because she should not have engaged Monique at all.  Knowing that she did flick Monique's lapel (after Monique was flipping her hair, and what Robyn also has said), that escalated the situation.  NOT her words.  I want to make that clear: Nothing Candiace said that night justified Monique putting her hands on Candiace at all.  I want to make that clear because people are still trying to say Candiace running her mouth justifies Monique beating her up and it does not.

Robyn came with receipts, down to the color of the wine splashed on Monique's face.

9 minutes ago, FlyingEgret said:

Did Gizelle bring her Personal Security to protect her in the event of a fight or to physically prevent her from participating in one?

Gizelle says she didn't want anyone to Google her and a fist fight with Monique is the first thing that comes up.  I doubt seriously a fight would've broken out at Karen's house especially since Candiace wasn't there.

HOWEVER, Monique claiming she was still pumped with with adrenaline a week after the fight is a serious concern because you shouldn't still be hopped up on adrenaline trying to fight somebody a week later.  That don't sound healthy.

1 minute ago, StillHere said:

I hope Robyn is remorseful for rolling up at Oz at putting her hands in Ashley's face.

I hope Ashley is ready to get her ass beat the next time she runs her mouth.

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59 minutes ago, Legalbeagle421 said:

However, Monique was WRONG. At least admit that, Karen. 

YMMV but I feel Karen did admit this and did so multiple times, including to Monique herself. Karen never excused Monique putting hands on Candiace or said it was okay in any way shape or form. Her point was that she was simply not willing to write off her friend entirely for a bad decision she made.

And she allowed her to use her home as a space to talk to the other women, which seemed to be Candiace's issue. It seemed to me that Candiace was bothered by Karen's even showing any grace to Monique and I disagree with that. You can not agree with a friend, tell them they're wrong but not X them out of your life permanently. 

Candiace is well within her right to never want to be anywhere near Monique ever again, as is any of the other women. But Karen is within her right to still want to preserve her friendship with Monique, despite not agreeing with Monique's actions. 

 

21 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Gizelle thinks Monique is bad for her and Jamal’s image? Jamal is bad for their image! lol

Chile, I couldn't. I was with Gizelle, even with her dramatics with bringing a bodyguard (which I found hilarious) on a lot of what she was saying. And even though yes we know Gizelle has never liked Monique and likely enjoyed having a solid reason to push to have her gone, she still was not wrong in much of what she was saying.

And I was even with Robyn in calling out Monique's condescending responses to Gizelle, who again, yes maybe Gizelle used the situation for her long standing dislike of Monique, but she was still not wrong in some of what she was saying. So I was with Gizelle for most of the episode until she pulled that b.s. about her and Jamal's image to protect. 

Gizelle, your own father was ranting about this man having 6 or 7 baby momma's and so upset by you back with this fool that he peaced out of the dinner with you two. "Pastor" Jamal is practically community dick at this point and Gizelle wanna talk about their "image". Girl, bye. 

 

9 minutes ago, dosodog said:

I think Ashley should be a suspect in "who went to the bloggers".  

So it wasn't just me who was side-eying Ashley. And I feel like the producers were kind of subtly hinting at it. Because I felt like there was a subtle close up of her face when the women were all wondering who else would have gone to the blogs. 

 

6 minutes ago, Legalbeagle421 said:

She's making things up, saying Candiace was throwing glasses.

I may be wrong but I think she's saying that a drink was thrown in her face, not necessarily by Candiace and that helped to escalate the situation. And as we saw in tonight's episode, Robyn did mention there being some accidental drink flying from the force of all that was happening.

The situation all happened so fast but I have looked at the clip multiple times and at some angles it does seem like the wine from wherever it came, hit Monique in the face right before she truly gripped onto Candiace's hair, Other times it looks like it flew when she already had Candiace's hair in her grip. The point is she was definitely hit with a glass of wine, just not by Candiace. It likely happened as a result of all the chaos. 

What I found particularly interesting tonight, was Candiace admitting to her therapist that she grabbed Monique's vest. Now like the wine, I do remember in all the madness, at some angles it seemed like someone touched Monique before things went left.  But I assumed that was one of the other women who were trying to separate them. I didn't realize it was Candiace who grabbed her vest. That adds another layer to things. 

And before anyone comes with it because I'm not about to have some back and forth, Monique was dead wrong to take the situation there. She was dead wrong for pummeling that woman's head like she was beating dough. Fighting and beating bitches up is never okay. But like I said last week, I've been around situations (never myself - I don't do physical or verbal altercations. I just freeze you out) where things escalate to violence and the one who hits is wrong but both parties share some blame for allowing a combative situation to escalate. 

Now that said, Monique girl, you did yourself no favors this episode. I mean I guess kudos for owning that you're not sorry rather than faking some mea culpa. But girl, I just can't. And the producers were not her friend. They pulled out those clips challenging her version of things, with a quickness. And whoever is handling the editing for this season is on point.

Because I swear that ending shot when Karen's giving her the whole speech of this will be a teachable moment for her and down the road she'll use it to help young girls, only for Monique to say "and also tell them not to provoke people", was like they went for Psycho vibes. All they were missing was the creepy music. 

At this point, for Monique's own well-being and that of her marriage and family, the stepping back needs to not be lip service and she may need to give reality television a break. Also, having seen both Monique and Candiace now on WWHL, both of these women need to put some meat on these bones. They are beautiful women but they're actually aging themselves being so skinny. Both Monique and Candiace's necks scared me. 

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I’m gonna get all psychological and say that Monique may be triggered by Candiace because she reminds her of the parts of herself she rejects OR Monique was once traumatized by someone similar to Candiace in verbal style. Not that we’ll ever see Monique figure it out on the show if it is such a thing.

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This Wendy experiment is not working out. She's great on paper but a reality star misfire. I feel sorry for her JHU students and colleagues.

Gizelle and Robyn are just being strategic with their faux-outrage, but Dr. Wendy really believes Candiace and Monique's misbehavior represents all Black people in this country. She looks at Blackness in America with a white gaze. It's sad actually.

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Gizelle and Karen tried to grab all the camera time. They are as disingenuous as Monique. Karen, quit trying to be saintly den mother. Looks like Ray is gonna put Karen in her place. And how does anyone know Karen gave Ray "half of all her money" unless Karen threw Ray under the bus and spilled the beans? I think the two of them are locked in a bitter money battle so they can divorce.

Ashley's waiting to see how she can leverage this situation for herself.

I'd like to see Candiace and Monique gone. Both have had violent moments. Actually Gizelle can go too. Actually, they all depress me a little bit.

Edited by pasdetrois
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Gizelle and bodyguard?  Hilarious.  Gizelle worried about her reputation? Hilarious.  Gizelle worried about JAMAL'S reputation?ROFLMAO!!!!!!

I feel like it was nice of Karen to give Monique a chance to talk to the girls but her lack of remorse was kinda scary.  The fact that she said she was still AMPED UP A WEEK LATER???? Stroke inducing scary. Talk to your pastor, of course; but you need to talk to a physician too.

Candiace not thinking that running that mouth of hers didn't have any effect on the situation seemed a little... uninformed.  She needs to keep going to counseling.  Get some self-awareness sister. You're gonna need it.

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35 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

YMMV but I feel Karen did admit this and did so multiple times, including to Monique herself. Karen never excused Monique putting hands on Candiace or said it was okay in any way shape or form. Her point was that she was simply not willing to write off her friend entirely for a bad decision she made.

And she allowed her to use her home as a space to talk to the other women, which seemed to be Candiace's issue. It seemed to me that Candiace was bothered by Karen's even showing any grace to Monique and I disagree with that. You can not agree with a friend, tell them they're wrong but not X them out of your life permanently. 

Candiace is well within her right to never want to be anywhere near Monique ever again, as is any of the other women. But Karen is within her right to still want to preserve her friendship with Monique, despite not agreeing with Monique's actions. 

And it should be noted it was this tendency in Candiace that created the conflict with Monique in the first place - Candiace was outraged last season that Monique wouldn't side against Ashley with her. Basically, Candiace is in middle school and demands that every friend of hers has to take a stand against her enemies (even if said friend has no personal problem with said enemy). Her emotional immaturity is unreal.

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I love the way the producers threw shade all over Monique this episode. I have so many reasons to be annoyed with Monique but the top reason is she has me on the same side as Gizelle and Robyn.  I may never forgive her for that. 

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Where was all this energy and extraness when Mama Dorothy popped babygirl in the head with the purse?

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I was impressed with Robyn tonight.  She usually seems like such a dumbass.

 I would get tired real quick of Ashley bringing Dean with her all the time.

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51 minutes ago, nexxie said:

I’m gonna get all psychological and say that Monique may be triggered by Candiace because she reminds her of the parts of herself she rejects OR Monique was once traumatized by someone similar to Candiace in verbal style. Not that we’ll ever see Monique figure it out on the show if it is such a thing.

Sometimes the person may never figure it out and when that is the case, the only solution is for Person A to separate themselves from Person B.  That's probably going to be the case with Candiace and Monique.

 

31 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

And it should be noted it was this tendency in Candiace that created the conflict with Monique in the first place - Candiace was outraged last season that Monique wouldn't side against Ashley with her. Basically, Candiace is in middle school and demands that every friend of hers has to take a stand against her enemies (even if said friend has no personal problem with said enemy). Her emotional immaturity is unreal.

Both of them are using defense techniques that may have served them in other environments but doesn't serve them where they currently are.

Monique is not in the hood anymore and beating a bitch's ass because she disrespected you is not how it works in her current environment.

Candiace uses her slick mouth to defend herself & it may have worked with the white kids she went to school with but it's not going to fly amongst the black women she is now hanging out with.

Both of them need to grow up and calm themselves down. It's not a good look.

31 minutes ago, laprin said:

I love the way the producers threw shade all over Monique this episode.

Monique immediately running to social media to brag about the fight (2 days later) and spin her story sealed her fate with Wendy and Robyn.  Gizelle was going to be against her anyway.   I think had Monique not done that, Wendy & Robyn probably would be more along the lines of Karen...knowing Monique is wrong but not tossing her to the side.

Monique is still running to the blogs, social media, magazines and anyone else who will listen and still amped up about this fight a year later.  That's not normal and if I know somebody who is still got adrenaline pumping over a fight that happened a year ago, I don't want to be around them either.  They cray.

22 minutes ago, StillHere said:

Where was all this energy and extraness when Mama Dorothy popped babygirl in the head with the purse?

I think first off, she's not going to fight her mother.  Second, Candiace knows exactly what she did or said to set her mother off.  In this case, she doesn't know what set Monique off...Monique doesn't even know it herself IMO.

Edited by drivethroo
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40 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

I think first off, she's not going to fight her mother.  Second, Candiace knows exactly what she did or said to set her mother off.  In this case, she doesn't know what set Monique off...Monique doesn't even know it herself IMO.

Ohhhh, so Candiace set her mother off?

 I hope she didn't ASK for that bop in the head.

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27 minutes ago, StillHere said:

Ohhhh, so Candiace set her mother off?

 I hope she didn't ASK for that bop in the head.

Candiace's mother should not have hit her but Candiace knows what she said that led up to that moment.

In the case with Monique, Candiace doesn't know what set Monique off because Monique herself really doesn't know or doesn't know how to verbalize why she's so mad at Candiace.

It actually doesn't matter what Candiace may have said or done because Monique had been wanting to beat Candiace's ass for at least a year and finally got her opportunity to do so in 2019.  The fact that she hasn't seen or been around Candiace since October 2019, it's almost 2021 and Monique would still beat Candiace's ass if she ever caught up to her again means it's more of an issue on Monique's end than Candiace's.  Get that in check.  Just because somebody says "You gone drag me?" does not mean you in fact have to drag them.  The fact that a year later Monique still doesn't get this (as evidenced on the WWHL show) is very disturbing and probably why Andy's going to get rid of her.

Edited by drivethroo
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Gizelle and Robyn were so annoying tonight, especially Gizelle. I know she is extra but a bodyguard? Because Monique is some wild animal that will just attack anyone now? Girl calm down. She had 1 altertaction. And now they are trying to use her past words against her as some type of evidence that this will happen again? 

Gizelle was saying that she and her ex-husband have a reputation to upkeep so she has to stay away from someone violent like Monique? So I guess him being a cheater is fine in the church world? Impregnating multiple women outside of wedlock is fine for them? 

At the end of the day, should have Monique pulled Candiaces hair? No. But the altercation could've been a lot worse.

 

  

13 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Candiace's mother should not have hit her but Candiace knows what she said that led up to that moment.

In the case with Monique, Candiace doesn't know what set Monique off because Monique herself really doesn't know or doesn't know how to verbalize why she's so mad at Candiace.

It actually doesn't matter what Candiace may have said or done because Monique had been wanting to beat Candiace's ass for at least a year and finally got her opportunity to do so in 2019.  The fact that she hasn't seen or been around Candiace since October 2019, it's almost 2021 and Monique would still beat Candiace's ass if she ever caught up to her again means it's more of an issue on Monique's end than Candiace's.  Get that in check.  Just because somebody says "You gone drag me?" does not mean you in fact have to drag them.  The fact that a year later Monique still doesn't get this (as evidenced on the WWHL show) is very disturbing and probably why Andy's going to get rid of her.

Part of the issue with Candiace is that it appears that Monique believes that Candiace was part of the plan to spread the allegation that one of her children is not Chris's. This is why she is so pissed which is totally justifiable. And while yeah, constantly egging someone on doesnt mean you give in but also don't try to be a badass by egging someone on constantly and then be surprised that something happens. As shown in the replay, Candiace grabbing Moniques jacket (instead of the brushing it) set Monique into defense mode. 

Edited by Primal Slayer
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I don't  know what all the clutching of pearls is about, myself!  As if women fighting on these shows is something new now!  I don't have to name the incidents over the years, as y'all that watch these shows already know!  There's only so much popping off of the mouth a person can take before one gets popped!  To me, that's all there is too it.  Bravo loves this stuff.  Has anybody been fired yet for putting hands on someone?  On contrare,, it seems they get more prominent, more screen time.  Robyn & Giselle need to take a seat, too!  They forget when they marched into Ashley's restaurant to gang up on Ashley.  That situation was a hair away from getting physical.  I'm over the fight already.  

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3 minutes ago, DelicateDee said:

I don't  know what all the clutching of pearls is about, myself!  As if women fighting on these shows is something new now!  I don't have to name the incidents over the years, as y'all that watch these shows already know!  There's only so much popping off of the mouth a person can take before one gets popped!  To me, that's all there is too it.  Bravo loves this stuff.  Has anybody been fired yet for putting hands on someone?  On contrare,, it seems they get more prominent, more screen time.  Robyn & Giselle need to take a seat, too!  They forget when they marched into Ashley's restaurant to gang up on Ashley.  That situation was a hair away from getting physical.  I'm over the fight already.  

Bravo isnt a big fan of fights but its also part of the reality so they go with it. Porsha was almost fired, Danielle was fired, Nene was on a "suspension", Miami was cancelled regardless lol

Monique knows that Candiace pops off at the mouth and on twitter, making dirty jabs and if she isnt ready to be near her again then thats understandable. And if she isnt ready to apologize then...at least it isnt a fake one. But they did shoot their promotional photos 10 days after the altercation so they saw each other during their photoshoot.

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It seems both women are failing to see the full picture.

Monique doesn't understand that words don't condone violence.

Candiace doesn't understand her role in provoking another person to use violence.

If I had to pick a side, I think I'd go with Monique only because I feel she was honest with herself and the others about just how mad she became and recognized it as a problem.  Candiace still seems to have problems understanding that what she says is all kinds of wrong more often than not. Her visit with her therapist said it all.

I may change my mind tomorrow, but for today, this is what I'm going with.

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6 minutes ago, Boofish said:

When I am in search of class, etiquette, decorum and social graces - Real Housewives is always my first stop.

All of these ladies are delusional if they think I am looking for any type of representation from any of them for anything especially fashion. 

Gizelle forever stepping out straight off the cover of an Ebony Fashion Fair catalog and walking in her purpose in her Too Annointed To Be Dissappointed Air 3s. Jamal must have told her dumbass WAP stood for "worship and praise" and he the headmaster of the WAP ministry. 

Not Fashion Fair! *cackling*😂 and Anointed to Be Disappointed. Sounds like the "urban" version of Cruising for a Bruising from Grease! lol

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I think Monique was dead wrong. 

That said, the rest of these heffas are getting on my damn nerves. 

Well, not all of them. Robyn gave me life tonight. I thought she handled Monique perfectly. Facts, logic, and disapproval minus shenanigans (bodyguard? Really Gizzard) or concern that de good white folks are gon think bad bout us (really Dr. Wendy? Miss me with that shit you five degree having loser).

I liked Monique but her refusal to just apologize and stfu has changed my opinion. Other women have fought on these shows and lived to see another day. There's a way to move forward and generate good will but girl, this ain't it. 

Candace...ehhhh...she's a victim here but I think it's very telling that her biggest allies on the show have repeatedly said they find her annoying as hell and wish she would shut her mouth. It can't always be everybody else. Sometimes it really is your jacked up personality that sets people off. Do you deserve violence? Of course not. But like Ashley said, sometimes you poke the wrong bear. Not everyone will argue back indefinitely...

Edited by ridethemaverick
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36 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I know she is extra but a bodyguard? Because Monique is some wild animal that will just attack anyone now?

We don't know that, especially since Monique has said repeatedly she "blacked out" and if you run your mouth, you get your ass beat.  Who's to say she wouldn't do that again? (I doubt seriously she would but if you've done it once you'll do it twice)

39 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Part of the issue with Candiace is that it appears that Monique believes that Candiace was part of the plan to spread the allegation that one of her children is not Chris's. This is why she is so pissed which is totally justifiable.

Yes and no because Monique found ways to control herself around all of the other people (Gizelle, Gigi, Charrisse) who were part of this "plot."  By this logic, Monique should've been beating Ashley's ass for alleging she was driving drunk when she crashed into that tree.

37 minutes ago, DelicateDee said:

There's only so much popping off of the mouth a person can take before one gets popped!  To me, that's all there is too it. 

There is no justification for that and for me, that's all there is to it.

38 minutes ago, DelicateDee said:

Robyn & Giselle need to take a seat, too!  They forget when they marched into Ashley's restaurant to gang up on Ashley. 

Ashley also had been running her mouth, so according to popular opinion, Robyn had every right to bust Ashley upside her head for running her mouth.  And yet, Robyn didn't actually put her hands on Ashley.

 

24 minutes ago, Jextella said:

I think I'd go with Monique only because I feel she was honest with herself and the others about just how mad she became and recognized it as a problem. 

Monique doesn't see what she did as as a problem. She's not sorry for what she's done, she's sorry for how it might cost her.

 

17 minutes ago, ridethemaverick said:

But like Ashley said, sometimes you poke the wrong bear. Not everyone will argue back indefinitely...

Ashley is only saying this because she doesn't care for Candiace.  By this logic, Robyn & Katie (and Monique) would have been more than justified in beating Ashley's ass.

Candiace does need to stop playing victim with the folded up napkin because she's been extremely vile on social media; she's not an innocent victim as far as tensions with others are concerned and the therapist was trying to get her to see that.  As far as the physical fight is concerned, she was not at fault; that's totally on Monique ---don't put your hands on other people.

As far as in general, she has a nasty mouth and nasty Twitter fingers ...you don't deal with people like that by beating somebody's ass, you deal with that by leaving those people alone.  Don't talk to them, don't call them, you're not invited, BLOCKT.

I have been in Monique's position (not necessarily fist fights, but the rage) and in Candiace's position (mouth) and the best thing to do is leave those people completely alone.  You can't control yourself? Let's the police to help you out.  You want to run your mouth? We don't want to have anything to do with you.  That's the only thing people like that will understand ...I think Candiace might get there a little quicker than Monique, however.

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@drivethroo I agree, having a slick mouth doesn't warrant violence. I said that in my post. I'm just saying Candace needs to realize that there are Moniques walking among us who don't have her restraint. For self-preservation's sake, she might wanna re-evaluate. That doesn't make Monique any less wrong.

 

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1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Bravo isnt a big fan of fights but its also part of the reality so they go with it. Porsha was almost fired, Danielle was fired, Nene was on a "suspension", Miami was cancelled regardless lol

Monique knows that Candiace pops off at the mouth and on twitter, making dirty jabs and if she isnt ready to be near her again then thats understandable. And if she isnt ready to apologize then...at least it isnt a fake one. But they did shoot their promotional photos 10 days after the altercation so they saw each other during their photoshoot.

Funny you mention that, I don't follow anyone so I don't KNOW anything, but in the intro shot for the show monique is on the end and just a schooch further away from the woman next to her than all the others.  Like maybe her picture was taken alone and she was photoshopped in.  

1 hour ago, Jextella said:

It seems both women are failing to see the full picture.

Monique doesn't understand that words don't condone violence.

Candiace doesn't understand her role in provoking another person to use violence.

If I had to pick a side, I think I'd go with Monique only because I feel she was honest with herself and the others about just how mad she became and recognized it as a problem.  Candiace still seems to have problems understanding that what she says is all kinds of wrong more often than not. Her visit with her therapist said it all.

I may change my mind tomorrow, but for today, this is what I'm going with.

I think that getting angry and raging can feel good and can be almost addictive and I wonder if this is part of who Monique is.  I don't resort to physical violence, but I know that I've had this experience with anger and rage, where it felt very, very good in the moment and almost addictive.  If this is the case, beyond this show, Monique needs help, because if anger feels good than she may subconsciously look for reasons to get angry and rage so that she can get the "high" from it.  And that could have a negative impact on her children as they grow up, if that is the case. 

I think all of the women play a role in making other women angry and upset.  

If the question is "did you play a role in so and so getting upset" the answer should always be "yes"  ALWAYS, and to say otherwise is delusional.  Conflict is a HUUUUGE part of this show so they are always making each other upset.

Like when Gizelle wore that shirt, which I think was way worse than whatever Candace has done.....she had to admit that she understood why it would upset Karen.

So, if the question is whether Candace had a part in making Monique upset, I'd say probably yes.  But, as someone pointed out above, Monique has been after Candace since the season started, so no matter what she says its going to upset Monique. 

However, Candace should own that making shady jokes and raising voices is likely going to lead to someone else getting upset too.  Even though its her job, its still true.

But, IMO, she doesn't bear any responsibility for getting beaten because a normal , reasonable and expected adult reaction to being upset isn't to physically attack someone.  

1 hour ago, Boofish said:

 

Gizelle forever stepping out straight off the cover of an Ebony Fashion Fair catalog and walking in her purpose in her Too Annointed To Be Dissappointed Air 3s. Jamal must have told her dumbass WAP stood for "worship and praise" and he the headmaster of the WAP ministry. 

Dead at the mere MENTION of fashion fair!

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19 minutes ago, ridethemaverick said:

@drivethroo I agree, having a slick mouth doesn't warrant violence. I said that in my post. I'm just saying Candace needs to realize that there are Moniques walking among us who don't have her restraint. For self-preservation's sake, she might wanna re-evaluate. That doesn't make Monique any less wrong.

 

As a general rule I think its best to try to de-escalate whenever possible.

I used to get so mad at other drivers, and my mom was like "RealReality, you have to stop, you may be right, but you don't know who is out with a gun and nothing to lose, just let them cut in front of you"

I always try to think of that when I'm five seconds away from flipping the bird or brake checking someone for being an asshole.  

But being a castmember on this show means being in near constant conflict within a storyline to stay relevant and interesting.  Nature of the beast.  

Edited by RealReality
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So, I'm looking at the cast shot for the intro to the show.  There are the seven ladies, three on the left, and four on the right.  The left three are Monique on the end, Candace in the middle and Gizelle to the right of her.  Then there is Karen, Robyn, Ahsley and Wendy on the right.  Three on the left all hold the flutes in their left hand and on the right, the flute in the right hand.  Karen, Robyn, Ashley and Wenday all have similar poses with their right arm posed straight down and their left hand holding up the flute. 

On the right side Gizelle and Candace have the same pose, with their left arm on their hip and the right hand holding up the flute.  Monique seems a little further away, and she has a different, but similar pose with her left arm straight down and her right hand holding up the flute.  It just seems odd that they had the four women on one side doing the same pose, two women on the left side doing the EXACT same pose and monique next to them doing something different.  

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5 hours ago, drivethroo said:

 

And Ashley in general should just be quiet because by agreeing with Monique that sometimes you gotta beat a bitch's ass for running their mouth, she's opened up the door for HER ass to get beat the next time she runs HER mouth.  By her logic, both Robyn and Katie would've been justified in beating Ashley's ass.

Monique is good as fired.  There was one moment on WWHL where I saw a flicker of "This bitch need to be fired" come across Andy's face.

The new Wendy/Robyn/Gizelle trio wasn't having any of Monique's excuses, and they were excuses.  Monique remembered everything that happened and she's not sorry it happened.  Wendy gave her an appropriate read.

Robyn came with receipts, down to the color of the wine splashed on Monique's face.

HOWEVER, Monique claiming she was still pumped with with adrenaline a week after the fight is a serious concern because you shouldn't still be hopped up on adrenaline trying to fight somebody a week later.  That don't sound healthy.

I hope Ashley is ready to get her ass beat the next time she runs her mouth.

Ashley had some fucking nerve talking about how Candace had poked everyone.  Ashley called Monique a drunk, Robyn damn near had to take out a restraining order on her, she shit talked Karen about Ray's tax problems, got into it with Gizelle and Candace and talked shit to a woman with a very clear mental issue. Her holier than thou attitude is the worst.

And I agree with everyone who said Ashley was the one who went to the blogs.  I'd bet good money thats why she brought Dean along with her.  She knew that if the blogs came up and Monique strongly denied having anything to do with the blogs, everyone would start looking at messy Ashely. 

Monique is a damned mess, its a gordian knot of excuses, denials and half admissions.  She made a mistake, she is regretful about what she did, she would never do something like that, words are exactly the same as physical violence, but she was wrong, but she wasn't wrong, she remembered, but she can't remember, she can remember flashes, nothing justifies what she did ......but she can't apologize to Candace. for behavior she now admits had no justification?

It sounded to me like she had practiced and come up with this over five days and it raveled quickly because the other women are far sharper and smarter than Monique.  But I had to laugh at Monique firing herself before anyone else could do it.  I hope it sticks.  

I'm already laughing at the preview for the rest of the season.  You see how fast any alliance with Ashley dissolves?  Karen said something and Ashley goes right around to tell Monique and cause drama.  THAT is your ride or die Monique, so good luck in life with that, because as easy as Ashley turns on Karen, is as easy as she will turn on you when the time is right.  And if Ashley goes to blogs to help you, she will go to the blogs to ruin you when its in her best interest.  

I'm also tired of Ashleys  hypocrisy, creepy husband and weird ass marriage.  People love Ashley, but I'd be totally fine if she wasn't around next season.  Any marginal charm she had is long gone for me.  

Robyn and Dr. B were the MVPs of the night for me, but special mention to KR for keeping everyone safe.  

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5 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

And it should be noted it was this tendency in Candiace that created the conflict with Monique in the first place - Candiace was outraged last season that Monique wouldn't side against Ashley with her. Basically, Candiace is in middle school and demands that every friend of hers has to take a stand against her enemies (even if said friend has no personal problem with said enemy). Her emotional immaturity is unreal.

Kinda like how Monique was upset that Candace dared to invite Charisse to a party with 200 other people?

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On 10/1/2020 at 4:45 PM, charliesan said:

Maybe I'm totally wrong, but I remember last season Candiace got mad at Monique because, out of the whole group, she expected Monique to have her back and instead she aligned herself with Ashley, her previous nemesis.

As much as I liked Monique way more than Candiace I have to say I always thought that Monique always cared too much about her social status, inside and outside of the group, and when she saw an opening to befriend Ashley (who has more money than Candiace) she took it without looking back. 

I'll be the first to admit that when news broke about the fight I was team Monique all the way and thought to myself (thank God I don't usually post anything outside of this forum) "well Candiace deserved it". Now watching the episodes I realize that Monique did probably plant all of these "leaks" to bloggers  to form popular opinion and probably thought Bravo would favor her in the editing process because so far she had been coming off pretty well in the past. She thought since Candiace had been having issues with the other ladies (mainly Gizelle and Ashley) and because she was deemed the villain of last season it would've been pretty easy to gain the reputation of the good girl who fights back. 

Again, just like with the Kendyl situation,she shot and MAJORLY missed. 

Monique had a lot of good will, particularly for a housewife, that was washed away with these two episodes.

A year later and girl can not say sorry?

Robyn was awesome tonight.

 

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For those who say that violence on these shows is not anything new, I totally understand that point. However, I don’t root for those people either. I thought Teresa, Nene, Porsha, Margaret, Danielle, etc. were wrong. I still like Porsha because she showed remorse and moved forward. Maybe Monique will do the same and If so, good for her. I’ll give credit where credit is due. But as of right now, October 2020, she’s still full of excuses. I’m kind of hoping last nights WWHL was her “Dorinda moment” and she’ll be gone next year. Lord knows, it won’t break her financially, so “bye! 👋🏾“.

As far as the other ladies and supposed pearl clutching, I think it comes down to environment and background. I don’t see Gizelle having grown up in an environment where violence was seen as acceptable. I need to look into her background but she seems upper middle class privileged and that was probably something she was not raised to view as an appropriate response. That’s where my point of view on this comes from. I was not raised to think it was acceptable to put my hands on people for words. And I understand the frustration of people who talk crazy to you. But you walk away. I have a career where people talk crazy all the time. If I start busting heads of opposing counsel or anyone else, there goes my career. I know Housewives land is different but actions have consequences, regardless of platform. Just my two cents. 

Edited to add: I forgot Gizelle's father's extensive civil rights background. I think that influences a lot of her stance on optics and how you are supposed to behave. I understand the viewers who say it doesn't matter to racists how you behave. 100% true. But I still think some Black people have the mentality that they need to rise above regardless. 

Edited by Legalbeagle421
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8 hours ago, nexxie said:

Gizelle thinks Monique is bad for her and Jamal’s image? Jamal is bad for their image! lol

I know, right?! Not only is Rev. Jamal community dick but his multiple degrees somehow didn't help him figure out how to use condoms effectively.

Monique needs to recognize that the fight is a symptom of a larger anger management problem. As immature and irritating as Candiace is, I'm glad she's working on herself in therapy (although I'm side-eyeing on-camera sessions). Monique should do the same (off-camera) because even if we take her at her word, she should be worried that she lost control of herself and became a danger to others. Perhaps her pastor can recommend a faith-based therapist because unless he's also a real counselor, I don't think taking to him and his wife will be enough.

I get Wendy's concern about perpetuating stereotypes, but she needs to get real. Racists are going to racist, no matter how well-behaved we are. That's the problem. To paraphrase Toni Morrison, part of the racism trap is that it's meant to keep us jumping through hoops so that we're too exhausted to demand true equity. 

8 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I hate how much I loved Monique’s ballet pink heels with the ribbons on the backs.  Grr.

Seriously. Those shoes were really cute.

Silver lining: we all now know that Candiace's wigs are really durable.

Because it can never be said enough:  Shut up, Ashley.

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I think the reason why this Monqiue/Candiace fight is such gold is because narratively speak, it's bringing together years of different storylines into one moment and the fight is almost minor because it's how each of the women are using the fight to their own benefit that is fascinating to watch.

I will need Dr. Wendy to stop with the respectability politics of it all, especially since she talks about without any sense of self-reflection. You're so concerned about the image of Black women being viewed as angry but were calling people fake bitches just a few episodes ago. Gizelle talks about respectability as if being with Jamal isn't clicking on some stereotypes. The whole idea that if you act right, you'll be accepted is so toxic because racist people are going to racist because they fundamentally think they are inherently better than you. And even if you believe in respectability politics, going on a Bravo show that taps into the worst stereotypes of women being unable to be friends with each other is not going to do it.

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10 hours ago, Legalbeagle421 said:

Monique is still coming up with excuses on WWHL. She is unbelievable to me. Andy's trying to nudge her into how wrong she is. She's making things up, saying Candiace was throwing glasses. She's nuts. 

I watched that too.  Monique is disgusting.  I know some don't like Gizelle, but she never physically attacked anybody so there is that.

Monique keeps saying that Candiace attacked her first, she threw a glass at her.  Andy told her no one saw that, she said SHE has footage of that happening.  If that's so Monique, then bring it on honey.  If not, shut your pie hole.  Monique also said that when she was removed from the room and in that room with the producer, she heard Candiace say, "You're FIRED."  And THAT made Monique run after Candiace, as she put it, "if I was fired then I was going to finish her off."  You should have seen Andy's face when she said that.  

Back to the show.  It was Robyn FTW.  She had Monique's number, she didn't believe her bullshit, she even said that her wanting to hold baby Dean was like some crooked politician wanting to appear human.

I really don't care about Gizelle and her dumb ass security.  She was wrong for walking out.  But then again, Karen was wrong for hosting the whole thing, but that was probably producer driven.

Ashley is on Monique's side because she can't stand Candiace.  Candiace was VERY nasty to her when Ashley was pregnant.  Someone should tell Candiace that using the term "bed wench" to describe Ashley makes zero sense because some people use that term to describe black women who marry white men, so Candiace might want to slow her roll.

Karen looked dumb agreeing with Monique.

BTW, didn't like what Wendy kept saying about this one fight, making black women look bad.  I agree there is a stereotype and this article shows that, but I'm not sure if one has anything to do with the other.  Just my two cents.

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