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12 Monkeys In The Media

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It's 50/50 for me. I love this show so I want it all, and now. But with some space between eps I think discussion will run more smoothly on the boards. Usually when I bingewatch a show I barely browse through the individual episode threads unless there's something I'm really psyched about.

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On 5/8/2018 at 11:14 AM, coppersin said:

It's 50/50 for me. I love this show so I want it all, and now. But with some space between eps I think discussion will run more smoothly on the boards. Usually when I bingewatch a show I barely browse through the individual episode threads unless there's something I'm really psyched about.

For me, it was having only one episode thread for the entire season that killed the discussion for me last year. I knew there was no way I was going to watch the entire season at once and I do not want to be spoiled by going to post about episode 1 and seeing what someone wrote about episode 8. Partway through the weekend, we finally got separate threads for each night that there were new episodes airing, which was better than only having one thread, but I still don't want to be spoiled for episode 3 when I have only watched episode 1.

I ended up clicking on the Friday night thread, literally holding my hand over the screen while I scrolled down to the bottom of the page, posting my thoughts about the first episode without reading any of the other posts, then watching episode 2 and doing the same thing. After I watched episode 3, I went back and read the other posts. It was kind of an ass backwards way of posting (and normally I do like to read everyone else's posts to have more of a discussion rather than just posting my own thoughts), but I'm a spoilerphobe and I'm not about to spoil myself due to the multi-episode thread format!

There are several Netflix/Amazon shows where all the episodes are released at once and there are still active discussions for each episode (The Crown, House of Cards, Stranger Things, 13 Reasons Why, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, Jessica Jones, GLOW, Orange Is the New Black, Sense8), so I wish we could get individual episode threads for 12 Monkeys again too. Plus I always think about how anyone who watches the show after it airs will have the same dilemma (risk seeing spoilers if they go into the multi-episode threads or avoid posting until they've finished watching). I know there are some shows that I didn't watch until a year or two after they aired so in those cases, I'm always glad that there are separate episode threads.

Specifically with 12 Monkeys, because so much goes on in each episode, it's majorly spoilery if you read anything beyond the episode you just watched! When I was watching the chunks of episodes from last season, it was really noticeable to me because after I finished watching all three episodes and then went back to read everyone's comments in the entire thread, I would think holy crap, ALL that happened in the last three hours?! The plot really moves at breakneck speed.

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We're doing individual episode threads again this year. Especially since the show isn’t airing all of it in one weekend. Last year was a failed experiment.

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YAY!

The most hilarious thing about last year was when Mr. EB came into the room and saw me holding one hand over the screen while scrolling down with the other hand. He asked, "What the hell are you doing?" I was like "AVOIDING SPOILERS, DUH!"

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Reminder...

12 Monkeys' Final Season Gets Premiere Date, Four-Week Run This Summer
By Vlada Gelman / May 7 2018, 3:25 PM PDT
http://tvline.com/2018/05/07/12-monkeys-final-season-4-premiere-date-syfy/

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The final chapter of the 12 Monkeys saga will kick off this summer, when the time-traveling drama’s fourth season premieres on Friday, June 15 at 8/7c on Syfy.

The 11-episode season will unspool over four consecutive weeks, with three episodes airing each Friday from 8 to 11 pm until the two-hour series finale on Friday, July 6 at 9 pm. (The entire third season, by comparison, was broadcast over just three consecutive days last May.)

Edited by tv echo

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So I must admit to experiencing a high level of intrigue as to what the 11th episode of this season & series finale will be named and also what it will be about.

4.1's title is "The End", and 4.10's is "The Beginning".  Those two seem like natural bookends, but yet we're getting that extra episode and the site I usually refer to lists it's title as 'TBA' (To Be Announced). 

Hmmmm....

Edited by iRarelyWatchTV36 · Reason: bad math

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I do hope they won't do a season in reverse because that would annoy the shit out of me. I don't think they will, but reading that it starts with the "The End" sort of conjures that image.

Amanda Schull interview

Nothing too spoilery. I thought Aaron Stanford would have been a bigger shoe in for the role, due to Nikita but apparently there were other considerations.

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Its going to be really tough - really tough - but although I'm not 100% certain, I think I am going to wait until this final season has finished airing and then binge all 11 episodes.

Getting 3 eps a week (for 3 weeks & 2 on final week), & all 3 on the same night, will be tougher than waiting for the end to watch all together; IMO.  Wait and watch all in one-go will less taxing than 3-pause for a week-3 more-pause a week-3 more-final pause-last 2.

Unless they've somehow got the season lined up as tight 3-ep arcs, for 3 weeks, and the final 2 to finish things off, its going to feel really disjointed when its all said and done.   Another good reason to wait & binge; IMO.


Happy viewing to all, no matter how you choose.

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I wonder if the writers/showrunners told the cast that Hannah was going to be Marian from the get go or if they sprung it on the cast when they shot the season.

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14 minutes ago, MostlyC said:

I wonder if the writers/showrunners told the cast that Hannah was going to be Marian from the get go or if they sprung it on the cast when they shot the season.

They told Brooke Williams from the beginning. I don’t know if the rest of the cast knew.

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TVLine:  Finale Recap and Interview with EP Terry Matalas (spoilers is you haven't seen the finale episodes, obviously)

 

The interview section has lots of good details about and thoughts on the finale, but, I'll just quote this q&a for now:

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TVLINE | How did you come up with the “(I’ve Had) The Time of My Life” song cue? 
We needed a perfect song for them to go out in a blaze of glory. I think maybe the first option was going to be Journey’s “Don’t Stop Believin’,” and Journey said no. And thank God they did, because it’s just not nearly as good. So then I was just brainstorming what would be the perfect song, and I actually think I have that song on my iPhone just because I’m really cheesy, and I played it in my car. I was like, “Oh, my God, that would be perfect!” So I had the editors lay it in, and we just laughed and laughed and laughed and said, “Let’s try and get it.” To our delight, they said yes.

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'12 Monkeys' Series Finale: The Deeply Personal Road to "Happily Ever Now" (Guest Column)
JULY 06, 2018  by Terry Matalas, 12 Monkeys' showrunner
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/12-monkeys-series-finale-terry-matalas-explains-happily-ever-now-guest-column-1125455

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Eyebrows were raised — rightfully so. After all, 12 Monkeys never began as 12 Monkeys. It started as a spec pilot called Splinter, a love letter to 12 Monkeys that never presumed in a million years to be able to call itself that. I was a young writer at the time, part of a duo, just hoping to get staffed. If you knew me at all, you knew about a certain DeLorean in my garage. My love of time travel in many ways exemplified time travel. It's about recapturing a piece of my childhood, watching Back to the Future in a darkened theater with my father. Or, some years later, returning to a strange art film by a madman filmmaker inspired by another madman filmmaker.

Splinter grew from that, "Hey, what if …" into a sample that caught the attention of Atlas – then Universal Cable Productions and Syfy — whose blessing rang the dinner bell for the wolves. Thankfully, the wolves never came — granted, neither did copious Emmys or a sea-swell of ratings — but we discovered a passionate, loyal fan base that became truly invested in what we had to say.  
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The best adaptations of IP aren't in slavish service to their source material but are [/i]inspired[/i] by that material to say something new — something personal, something genuine. I've come to learn that adapting doesn't have to be an act of re-creation. Just gratitude. We wanted to take our love of Gilliam's film and with the advantage of a longer form narrative, more deeply explore what it made us hope and believe about the nature of time.

We've seen dozens of time-travel stories about the past and future — robot apocalypses, swash-buckling adventures through history — but we wanted to explore the present. The now. The constant struggle to maintain a moment that only has value because it passes. It's the beautiful, unfair, messed-up truth about time. Our villains want to hold on to the moment with both hands, devaluing its meaning — our heroes fight to set it straight and allow it to pass, knowing that all they love will one day pass with it. But it's only in the passing that makes any of it real.  
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A series is a lot like life itself. With all of its ups and down, its cast of characters, its successes and failures, and a smattering of small, miraculous moments that slip away all too quickly. You just want to stop time and say, "Hold on, not so fast." But it's only in passing that the story has value — that you can get to the next chapter. After all, a story isn't a story with meaning unless it has an ending. Forget the past. Don't worry about the future. Enjoy now.

So here I am today — the last day of this, the first of something yet unknown — but grateful for all of it. Like the final words I ever wrote for the series: "Happily ever now."

Edited by tv echo
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12 Monkeys had one of the great series finales
DARREN FRANICH  July 06, 2018
http://ew.com/tv/2018/07/06/12-monkeys-series-finale-review/

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12 Monkeys was about the end of the world. The apocalypse has gone mainstream, so even non-fantastical series feel apocalyptic lately. Yet the mood of this series, which ended its four-season run on Friday, was never bleak, or cynical, the polar style opposite of grim-for-the-sake-of-grim. 12 Monkeys moved fast. Months could pass in an episode, or years. Characters splintered across the timeline, living whole lives in distant pasts, reappearing unexpectedly in various futures. Existential dilemmas were struggled with, gotten over. The laws of time were honored, and broken.
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Many of the great (and terrible) genre shows in the modern era drift a lot of excitement off the idea of constant change: new settings, expanding worlds, an ever-expanding cast of characters. By necessity but also by purpose, 12 Monkeys held true to certain day-one aspects of itself. Cole was a time traveler from a ruined future, trying to stop the end of the world. He was the muscle for Dr. Katarina Jones (wondrous Barbara Sukowa), the kind of brilliant scientist who tries saving the world but invents something that can only destroy it. In our not-quite-ruined present, he met Cassie, an ideal partner, and Jennifer, a jovial madwoman locked into the very fabric of space-time. In the dark future, he hung out with best pal Ramse (Kirk Acevedo), and morally ambiguous frenemesis Deacon (Todd Stashwick).
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Executed poorly, this could’ve gotten repetitive quickly, or felt cheap. But when the finale brought back a couple of dead characters for one last ride, it felt right, inevitable. Deacon and Ramse rejoined the Jones crew for a battle with the forces of Titan. This was a suicide mission in every sense of the word. If they were successful, they would erase James Cole from history. And everyone else would die so that they could live again. All would be rebooted. 12 Monkeys ended by erasing 12 Monkeys.
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The ending of La Jetée is horrifying, the climax of Gilliam’s 12 Monkeys equally downbeat but halfway-hopeful. Savalas’ 12 Monkeys finale had a tough-hearted final act — many partings, homeward bound — but it was more cheerful, a satisfying TV ending, bittersweet but definably sweet. Cassie beamed back to the moment this show began, left with memories of a life (lives?) that never happened. The plague never decimated humanity. Deacon opened a bar, dead children lived again, Jennifer grew a freaking unicorn.

And Cole survived, because Jones let herself break one rule of causality. He got to join Cassie in their house, just as autumn started turning the forest red. It was one leap of logic in a finale that otherwise followed rigid rules of time-space canon. I think the show earned it. Like, they did Hitler.
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The finale paid off every idea the show ever had about itself, curlicue revelations sprinkled alongside brawly catharsis. It’s one of the most gratifying finales I’ve ever seen, satisfying and surprising, brainy and bighearted. Like the best finales, it was partly about the need for finality. “We can have forever,” Cole told Cassie, “Or we can have now, with an ending that makes it real.”

I’ll miss this show’s peculiar thrills, the twirling imagination of its time travel narrative physics, how it honored perspectives on fate and free will without ever getting bogged down in mawkish monologuing. It was existential pop, cheerful heroes regarding the void with dark humor. Everyone died a few times, but you’ve never met such friendly ghosts. The cycle has ended; can’t wait for it to start again.

Edited by tv echo
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12 Monkeys Series Finale: Aaron Stanford Reflects Upon Cole's Final Sacrifice
By Lindsay MacDonald | Jul 6, 2018 11:00 PM EDT
http://www.tvguide.com/news/12-monkeys-series-finale-aaron-stanford-interview/

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Did you know ahead of time whether or not Cole was going to survive this finale?
Aaron Stanford:
No, I wasn't at all sure that he was going to survive. I don't know if Terry knew for certain — Terry Matalas, the showrunner. If he did know for sure, he didn't tell me about it. I think there was some discussion in the writers' room, people going back and forth about what was the optimal way to finish this story and give it its due and be true to it. Obviously, they decided that Cole should live, but that was something I didn't know for certain until I cracked a script for the first time.

I like that we kind of got two endings: the sad version in which he sacrifices himself and then the next ending in which he washed up on the beach and got a happily ever after.
Stanford:
Yeah, you kind of get to have your cake and eat it too. For sure. Cole gets to have that well-earned moment of self-sacrifice that the entire series seems to be leading up to, and people also get their happy ending with Cole and Cassie settling down in the house of Cedar and Pine together.
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Cole did get to have some really heart-wrenching goodbyes with everyone, which one was the most emotional for you?
Stanford:
The real gut punch is when Jones dies, because that's a goodbye on an even deeper level. He's just said goodbye to the love of his life, which was gutting enough. Then he goes to have his final moments with this woman who he's forged this bond with and has recently discovered is actually his grandmother, his own flesh and blood. Then she just passes. Shooting that was very emotional, and I think [it] had a big payoff.
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We did see that red leaf on the tree in the final shot. Is that a hint that this might not be happily ever after, after all?
Stanford
: It's absolutely intentional ambiguity. That's the question you're meant to be asking, and I think everybody has to answer that for themselves. But they certainly put that in there for a reason to suggest that maybe, just possibly, the loops haven't quite finished yet.

Edited by tv echo
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Loved this series, sorry to see it end. It was thought provoking and get had its fun moments. Took me a bit to get in the groove but after that it was a fun ride.

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'12 Monkeys': The Best Series Finale Since 'Breaking Bad'
Merrill Barr  July 6, 2018
https://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillbarr/2018/07/06/12-monkeys-series-finale-recap-review-syfy-james-cole-cassie-ramse-jones-jennifer-goines-olivia-witness-titan-primary-aaron-stanford-amanda-schull-deacon-todd-stashwick-emily-hampshire/#f1e8945b692e

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As the temporal dust settled on the final moments of tonight’s series finale of 12 Monkeys one thing became clear: we just watched the strongest series finale since Breaking Bad.
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The final episode of 12 Monkeys, an epic 2-hour final battle, gives us the closure every TV show strives to achieve in its final moments. The corpse in the Night Room is Olivia. Cole got to give a proper goodbye to Ramse. Time was reset. Cole was erased… and then he wasn’t.

And it’s that final coda that turns the finale of 12 Monkeys into a work of art.

The story could have just ended. It could have just been a tragic tale that ends with Cassie staring into the heavens wondering if there’s more to her life as we wonder if the two will be united in the beyond. But then Cole wakes up in Florida.

By having the final moments be a happy ending for the show’s dynamic duo, it also opens up the story to a litany of debate - just like the end of Breaking Bad did.
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Does Jones have the right to play god one more time to save Cole?

While it presents as a clean ending where everything is wrapped up in a nice, red forest tinged bow, the fact that Jones tweaked the primary code to save James - which time is apparently totally okay with - is going to leave the show with something for future fans to question. And, by giving fans that moment of debate, the show has secured its legacy.

The ending is satisfying, but it’s also the start of another conversation about what ends justify what means. Is saving the one worth the risk? What if Jones’ plan had failed? Would time have backlashed? The plan only works if time lets it work. It’s a fun conversation to have.
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Thanks to that final sequence - pun intended - 12 Monkeys proved its ability to satisfy as well as engage. It was a genius show with something to say. It was a show about what it means to end and why those endings matter. The ending is itself the message and we are all better viewers for having witnessed it… pun also intended.

Edited by tv echo
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Go to article link to listen to podcast (approximately 1 hour and 20 minutes) - very interesting, illuminating and emotional podcast; also, they apparently have 46 minutes worth of deleted scenes for the blu-ray...

TALKING MONKEYS OFFICIAL PODCAST: AARON STANFORD, EMILY HAMPSHIRE, AND MORE ON 12 MONKEYS SERIES FINALE
Blair Marnell  Jul 6, 2018
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/talking-monkeys-official-podcast-aaron-stanford-emily-hampshire-and-more-on-12-monkeys

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Talking Monkeys hosts Amy Marie Hypnarowskie and Merrill Barr welcome Aaron Stanford, who headlined the series as James Cole, and Emily Hampshire, who portrayed Jennifer Goines. They are joined by 12 Monkeys showrunner Terry Matalas, producers/writers Christopher Monfette and Sean Tretta, editor Drew Nichols, and showrunner's assistant Casey Botta. Together, they are unraveling the events of the series finale as we say goodbye to the show.
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To start off the podcast, Stanford shares his reactions to Cole’s powerful farewells and sacrifices as his cycle comes to an end. From a creative standpoint, Matalas revealed how much planning and forethought went into mapping out the finale and getting all of the characters into place. Even with 20 episodes remaining, it was a daunting task to draw upon the lingering narrative threads and bring everything together. 

From there, Stanford spoke about Cole’s reunion with Kirk Acevedo’s José Ramse for their “Butch and Sundance” moment in the finale. It also allowed the creative team to inject some much-needed humor into the proceedings. There are even more interesting details to be had in the full episode above, so check it out, then let us know what you thought of the finale in the comments!

Edited by tv echo

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I hope that eventually the entires how gets streamed somewhere, Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.  right now, seems to only be available to buy on DVDs and pricey at that.

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Just now, Hanahope said:

I hope that eventually the entires how gets streamed somewhere, Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.  right now, seems to only be available to buy on DVDs and pricey at that.

The first three seasons are streaming on Hulu. I would imagine they'll get the final season eventually.

I purchased the final season on Google Play since I couldn't watch on SyFy. It was $17.99. The rest of the seasons are available to purchase there as well.

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