S04.E01: Welcome to the Alternate Economy; S04.E02: The Land of Taking and Killing

[Bort]

Quote

An uneasy peace between two Kansas City crime syndicates is threatened by an untimely death. Meanwhile, the Smutny family is caught between a rock and a hard place.

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The Smutnys receive unexpected guests, Josto and Gaetano reunite, Loy challenges the status quo and Oraetta is caught.

Airdate: 27 September 2020

[EtheltoTillie]

This is finally on!  Can’t wait. 

[AimingforYoko]

Ethelrida's not the author, is she?

[Razzberry]

Audience Contempt:  a condition that often afflicts previous wunderkins in the entertainment industry (see:  David Milch, Nic Pizzolatto et.al).   Symptoms appear at around the two year mark and may include:

• Restlessness, irritability and boredom 
• Narcissism,  Delusions  
• A belief that the audience is stupid and contemptible.  It's not you, it's them. 
• Virtue signaling, Hypocrisy, Projection
• An irresistible urge to Preach from within a gated community                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

What pure rot.

Tribalism is endemic to being human and is bad.  Yup.

So is this premiere, Noah.

[thuganomics85]

Fargo is back and... well, there is way too much going on here.

I mean, I won't go as far as I to say that I disliked it or anything, but it felt like there was just so many characters and so much going on that it was hard for me to really get invested in anything.  The main story this season is obviously going to be the conflict between the Italian mafia and the Black Syndicate, but there is also this internal strife between Jason Schwartzman's character and his younger, more violent brother, the failed shootout of the doctor and how that will play out, the funeral home with the young girl and her parents, the two escaped convicts who are related to said family, and this nurse that views herself as some kind of "angel of mercy", who kills patients that she believes are already on their way out.  I'm sure it will all connect together in the end, but it was just hard to really get invested with anything, since it didn't feel like any story really got justice, despite the long running time.

Also, as of now, while most of the acting was good, no one really automatically popped on screen like others have did in the past season.  The closet was probably either Jessie Buckley or Ben Whishaw (in his limited screen time so far), but they didn't automatically grab my attention like others did before.  It might not be a good thing that the most excited I got was when Timothy Olyphant finally showed up at the end of all of this.  But I'm just looking forward to him doing what he does best, hopefully!

Chris Rock's character's son that is more or less a prisoner of the mafia is totally going to end up being Mike from the second season, right?  Because I'm pretty sure Ben Whishaw's character's name in Milligan and it seems like those two have some kind of bond, so I'm going to guess it will end with him taking the Milligan name when he grows up.

[Kiddvideo]

I’m worried they‘ve equated a complex story as a good story. These 2 episodes were ok enough to keep me watching, but this is pretty tangled already. 9 left!

[Chaos Theory]

This has potential.   It’s a bit too complicated but I did enjoy it.   A simple plan coming apart at the seems due to Incompetence violence and greed is pure Fargo.  

Edited September 28, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[hendersonrocks]

Two long episodes back-to-back was probably about 30 more minutes than ideal, but I still enjoyed the heck out of this. Maybe it's just because it feels both smart and familiar but still NEW! in a way very few things do right now, but I am still all-in. Ethelrida was the real highlight for me; anything involving Jason Schwartzman's character the opposite. 

I love that the nurse is from Minnesota and probably has some connection to other Fargo stories that we may/may not ever learn more about, and ditto Mike Milligan from S2 and the Milligan family. I was having a hard time following the dialogue of the bank escapee that ISN'T related to Ethelrida but I think she mentioned being from a reservation (?) and that also made me wonder if there could be a S2 Hanzee connection. (Maybe a leap but probably not a surprise my mind went there, as S2 is my favorite by far and Hanzee & Mike Milligan are my two favorite characters to date.)

[shapeshifter]

On 9/28/2020 at 10:28 AM, hendersonrocks said:

the bank escapee that ISN'T related to Ethelrida but I think she mentioned being from a reservation (?) and that also made me wonder if there could be a S2 Hanzee connection.

S2 is set in 1979, so maybe she is Hanzee's mother?
And "she" is Amber Midthunder as Swanee Capps who was totally unrecognizable to me as also being Rosa Ortecho in reimagined Roswell, New Mexico! 
crossed out because Amber Midthunder was replaced by Kelsey Asbille Chow. 

Edited October 3, 2020 by shapeshifter

[tennisgurl]

Fargo finally returns with another "true story" about violence and crime in the Midwest, and we already have a lot going on. 

I think I am a bit predisposed to like this premier, as it has a lot in common with season two, my favorite season, being a period piece about a mob war that is quickly escalating, but I hope that they arent biting off more than they can chew. We already have so many characters, so much going on, with younger versions of characters and older versions, its already confusing and I hope that they can make things a bit easier to follow going forward. It seems like the main conflict will be a mob war between the Italian mob and the black syndicate, with Ethelrida as our "normal person" POV character and a bunch of other characters, most notably a weird angel of death nurse, as our subplots that will either be used for quirkiness and to add some more twists, there is just so much going on, I fear that a lot of characters and plot could get lost in the shuffle. 

I guess the theme of the season will be various ethnic groups assimilating to the mainstream American WASP culture (as the show pretty much told us via voice over) as told through crime syndicates, with each new group replacing the last one. Does the new group taking out the old one represent the last group being assimilated? Or maybe its how minority groups struggle when they fight against each other to get a seat at the table instead of the society that oppresses them all? I dont dislike that premise, again reminding me of season two and how it used a mob war to talk about big business taking over small time stores and operations, but I hope that it doesn't spend too much time being too on the nose about whatever we are supposed to say. I mean, I can figure out the issues of various oppressed groups and minorities being pitted against each other despite them all being badly treated by mainstream society, I dont need the narrator to spell it out for me. Or maybe its just the tried and true "racism and tribalism is bad" story, which is certainly not a bad lesson, but can pretty easily fall into cliches instead of the more unique philosophical questions this show asks at its best. 

All of the acting is good, but no one is really standing out yet like in seasons past, and the same goes for the characters. No one is really bad, but no one is really jumping out as a star quite yet. There is a lot of potential, with Ethelrida as our lead and Ben Whishaw as the son of the Irish mobster who sided with the Italians, and I am always happy to see Chris Rock is something more serious. The Minnesotan serial killer nurse (because we always need someone with the Fargo accent) is certainly a wild card, should be interesting to see where she fits into all of this, as well as the two escaped convicts, one of whom is Ethelridas aunt. 

I really like some of the stylistic choices, especially the old fashioned arrest pictures, and I always start a new season wondering what the connection to other seasons or the movie, and what sort of possible magical realism or other weird stuff will happen at some point, which is really half the fun. The Irish crime families name is Milligan, name of our favorite cheerful gangster Mike Milligan, which is certainly too much of a coincidence not to be connected, or maybe its the nurse, as she is from the same general area as a lot of past characters. 

[pezgirl7]

Other than the crazy nurse, I'm not really interested in any of the characters. Hopefully Timothy Olyphant's character is awesome. I perked up when I realized that was him. And I do think the nurse is crazy since she seems to get enjoyment from killing the patients. Not sure what that syrup she put into the pie was, or what her end game is with the 16 year old girl.

I guess I'm pretty disappointed in this season, since it doesn't have any of the charm of the other seasons, and I don't even know why it's named Fargo. Giving the nurse a Fargo accent doesn't seem like enough. I'm also not interested at all in the crime syndicates, which seems to be the main focus of the show.

[hendersonrocks]

Quote

Not sure what that syrup she put into the pie was, or what her end game is with the 16 year old girl.

The bottle said Ipecac Syrup on it. (My brain went to wondering why would she do something so obviously as far as  inciting sickness - especially with that quantity of syrup - when she had already told Ethelrida she was making her a pie?!)

[The Wild Sow]

1 hour ago, hendersonrocks said:

The bottle said Ipecac Syrup on it. (My brain went to wondering why would she do something so obviously as far as  inciting sickness - especially with that quantity of syrup - when she had already told Ethelrida she was making her a pie?!)

Ha! Ipecac makes you puke like crazy - it’s used to induce vomiting for poisonings or pill overdoses. So are the gangsters going to break in & get splattered with projectile vomit from the funeral director family?!

 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

We already have so many characters, so much going on, with younger versions of characters and older versions, its already confusing and I hope that they can make things a bit easier to follow going forward.

12 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

there was just so many characters and so much going on

At the end of both episodes, right after the credits, "a man's voice" (Closed Captioning) says "Now I get it."

 

 

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Ben Whishaw as the son of the Irish mobster who sided with the Italians

and who was born a "Hebrew" before being traded as a child to the Irish mob, right?
--which would make him a potential a triple spy.

 

 

9 minutes ago, The Wild Sow said:

Ha! Ipecac makes you puke like crazy - it’s used to induce vomiting for poisonings or pill overdoses. So are the gangsters going to break in & get splattered with projectile vomit from the funeral director family?!

Ha ha! I would appreciate that.

 

 

[Razzberry]

I like the old cars and the sets.  The actors are good, I kinda feel bad for them.  I had to laugh when the nurse said to the schoolgirl "I've decided to make you a special project of mine."  Any more easter eggs?

[pezgirl7]

1 hour ago, The Wild Sow said:

Ha! Ipecac makes you puke like crazy - it’s used to induce vomiting for poisonings or pill overdoses. So are the gangsters going to break in & get splattered with projectile vomit from the funeral director family?!

 

Wasn't it the police who were busting in? I'm assuming to apprehend the prison escapees. Maybe some of them eat the pie, and then regret it!

[shapeshifter]

14 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

1 hour ago, The Wild Sow said:

Ha! Ipecac makes you puke like crazy - it’s used to induce vomiting for poisonings or pill overdoses. So are the gangsters going to break in & get splattered with projectile vomit from the funeral director family?!

Wasn't it the police who were busting in?

Police    --  Gangsters
Tomato --  Tomahto  (especially as shown here)

16 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

Maybe some of them eat the pie, and then regret it!

Ha ha!

[Avaleigh]

3 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

Other than the crazy nurse, I'm not really interested in any of the characters. Hopefully Timothy Olyphant's character is awesome. I perked up when I realized that was him. And I do think the nurse is crazy since she seems to get enjoyment from killing the patients. Not sure what that syrup she put into the pie was, or what her end game is with the 16 year old girl.

I guess I'm pretty disappointed in this season, since it doesn't have any of the charm of the other seasons, and I don't even know why it's named Fargo. Giving the nurse a Fargo accent doesn't seem like enough. I'm also not interested at all in the crime syndicates, which seems to be the main focus of the show.

This is mostly how I feel as well, only I am interested in how everything will play out with the crime syndicates. 

I agree with you that so far at least, this doesn't really feel like Fargo. The nurse is the only character who is making me feel like this season should be a part of the Fargo brand. She's also the only character who has a compelling storyline. 

One area where I really think this season is lacking (so far) is the humor. (Which is interesting considering they cast a notable comedian in the lead role.) The first three seasons (particularly 2 and 1) were very clever and fun in terms of bringing a lot of dark comedy and I haven't been feeling that from this group of characters. Still, it's early, so hopefully this season will find its feet. (We certainly waited long enough for it.)

Season 2 of this show was by far the best and I guess I keep wanting each of the following seasons to grab me the way that one did. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Two huge and basic problems for me.

1)  The hothead first born Fadda is now all of a sudden the voice of reason.  When, exactly, did that happen? 

2)  The conversation between Doctor and Cannon when they were strategizing.  Doc first preached aggression, then did a 180 within the same conversation, warning that it was perhaps too soon to act.  Ridiculous.  If he were simply throwing out options, Turman's acting choices were very poor as this was in no way clear.

At some point, we have to be able to rely on folks being consistent.  Sure, people do things out of character.  Quirky is also fine, as previous seasons largely demonstrated.  But, it feels to me that the entire point of this exercise is to wallow in it.  It is not to entertain or enlighten, imo.  What was that line?  Oh yeah. "To get respect, you have to give respect."  We have all been dissed.

ETA:  Hawley, in this show, has not earned the homages to The Godfather such as the sun through the blinds bathing the "Michael" character nor the choice of music in the credits, which was prominent in Coppola's epic.

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Lonesome Rhodes

[SoMuchTV]

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

I like the old cars and the sets.  The actors are good, I kinda feel bad for them.  I had to laugh when the nurse said to the schoolgirl "I've decided to make you a special project of mine."  Any more easter eggs?

Help me out - I either haven’t seen or have forgotten a lot. What’s the Easter egg here?

[BC4ME]

I would just like to say, the hospital administration was pretty damned accepting of that nurse killing people. Like, they already had evidence she was doing this and when caught redhanded, they just fired her. That's it.

[SoMuchTV]

1 hour ago, SoMuchTV said:

Help me out - I either haven’t seen or have forgotten a lot. What’s the Easter egg here?

Okay, I realized google is my friend. It’s a line from No Country for Old Men, a Coen brothers movie. But not one I’ve seen. 

[Chaos Theory]

25 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

I would just like to say, the hospital administration was pretty damned accepting of that nurse killing people. Like, they already had evidence she was doing this and when caught redhanded, they just fired her. That's it.

This is sadly true.  Most employers simply fire nurses with troubling history then report them.   Look up Charles Cullen who killed 29 patients in two different states and was always able to get another job because no hospital reported him even after firing him for suspicious activity.

[madmax]

I thought this was still filming; didn't realize it was on until it showed up on the DVR.

As others have said, there was a LOT going on.  A little hard to tell them apart in these first couple episodes.

No one really jumped out at me as the stellar performer as in other seasons, but I think season three was the same for me.

Gotta say, swapping kids is the ultimate insurance plan...

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

and who was born a "Hebrew" before being traded as a child to the Irish mob, right?
--which would make him a potential a triple spy.

Pretty sure the "Hebrew" was killed by the Irish kid, who then assimilated to the Italian mob.  Of course, I could be wrong.

[The Wild Sow]

2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Okay, I realized google is my friend. It’s a line from No Country for Old Men, a Coen brothers movie. But not one I’ve seen. 

I’ve not seen it either. My mind immediately jumped to Wicked!

[LittleIggy]

Royal houses (in Europe and Asia) historically did indeed exchange offspring as hostages.

I’ve watched Fargo from Day 1, and I enjoyed the first two episodes (except for the annoying nurse). Of course I love mob stories. 
I thought it was funny that Josto’s fiancée is twice as big as he was.

4 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Okay, I realized google is my friend. It’s a line from No Country for Old Men, a Coen brothers movie. But not one I’ve seen. 

It’s a great movie. You should see it.

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, BC4ME said:

I would just like to say, the hospital administration was pretty damned accepting of that nurse killing people. Like, they already had evidence she was doing this and when caught redhanded, they just fired her. That's it.

Didn't they round it down to incompetence on her part?  And then she started ranting that she'd tell the papers she was being blamed for mistakes doctors made. 

7 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

One area where I really think this season is lacking (so far) is the humor.

I agree.  Humor, location and pace.  It was fine but it doesn't really feel like Fargo.  It felt slow and I don't necessarily mean in story telling but rather previous seasons had a bit more pep.  It also doesn't quite feel as quirky.

[Blakeston]

2 hours ago, madmax said:

 Pretty sure the "Hebrew" was killed by the Irish kid, who then assimilated to the Italian mob.  Of course, I could be wrong.

Yes, that was my understanding. Ben Whishaw's character is ethnically Irish, and was sent to live with the Jews. Then his Irish relatives took him back, and convinced him to kill the Jewish boy who had been traded for him. Now he's with the Italian mob, and presumably they call him "Rabbi" because he spent some time living with Jews.

[The Wild Sow]

8 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

Wasn't it the police who were busting in? I'm assuming to apprehend the prison escapees. Maybe some of them eat the pie, and then regret it!

OK, I watched it again - cops, of course! But is the lead cop, the one who kicked in the door, also a Fadda gang member??  They sure look like the same guy! Dirty cop (well, sure!)?  Fadda henchman infiltrates police force (a la Corky Romano??) Just lookalike actors?

I still want to see a vomit-fest! Looks like Swanee was digging into that pie.

[Cherpumple]

I watched season 2 again last week to get into the Fargo mood, and even though this season isn't as instantly engaging, I'm liking it so far. I like the old timey look of it, and some of the characters, but I definitely want more of the Fargo accents!

Just a few random thoughts/questions so far:

- I've always loved the names on this show, and this season is no different. I especially like the choice of Ethelrida Pearl Smutny for the bright, observant teenaged girl. The middle name is likely a callback to the Pearl Hotel in Fargo, where Mike Milligan was holed up in season 2. More importantly, I found it interesting that the girl who is preoccupied with questions of identity, race, and who the "real" Americans are, has a super old-school name associated with white Anglo-Saxon royalty. There were two Anglo-Saxon kings named Aethelred (meaning "noble counsel"), and a princess/saint named Aethelreda (or Aethelthryth) in the 7th century. Nice choice!

- I was surprised and thrilled to see Jack Huston show up as the corrupt cop with OCD. I've loved him since Boardwalk Empire, but since he wore a mask on half his face on that show, I didn't recognize him right away on Fargo. I'm so happy to have him on my screen again!

- I'm curious about why "Rabbi" Milligan turned on his Irish family in favor of the Italians. Considering that he's living in the attic eating peanut butter sandwiches, I doubt it's because they treat him so well.

- Did they raise some doubt about who killed the Italian boss? At first I thought it was clearly the kid with the toy gun, but then I thought I heard Josto say something about not hearing the gun go off or something, and it made me think that maybe there was a sniper in the area that we haven't seen yet. Or maybe Josto didn't see the kid? I don't know. I may need to rewatch that scene.

- In the scene with Nurse Mayflower and Josto in the supply room, was he really asking her to mercy-kill his father, or just asking her to give him more drugs to make sure he wasn't in any pain? I initially thought it was the former, but he looked surprised and confused to see her at the funeral (almost as though he barely remembered her), so now I'm not so sure. Either way, the ring she stole will definitely make another appearance.

- At the end of the first episode (I think) the camera panned across the street from the funeral home to the nurse's apartment building, and I definitely saw a creepy figure of a man standing in the middle of the road. What was that about?

[Kiddvideo]

1 hour ago, Cherpumple said:

- I'm curious about why "Rabbi" Milligan turned on his Irish family in favor of the Italians. Considering that he's living in the attic eating peanut butter sandwiches, I doubt it's because they treat him so well.

I’d guess Rabbi felt he’d been betrayed first. The Irish father (who for some reason had been arrested for buggery and perversion whereas all the others had been arrested for crimes like extortion or racketeering) traded Rabbi twice, the second time there was a younger brother (who smirked at Rabbi) who should’ve gone. I couldn’t tell if the younger brother was killed in the massacre or if he could potentially come back for revenge.

That guy in the street was really creepy!

Two ponderances atm: The younger Italian brother Gaetano, was he the one traded to the Irish? Why is he not American? And “Milligan” can’t be a coincidence, and in S2 it said no one knew why Hanzee turned on his foster family. I can speculate who Mike’s parents are, but were Hanzee‘s murders just a parallel or could he have been traded for a Gerhardt son? (I don’t know who his parents or the 4th Gerhardt son would be.) And surprise on me: I learned tonight Hanzee was the head of the Fargo Syndicate and murdered by Malvo.

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Kiddvideo
Spelling

[Cherpumple]

57 minutes ago, Kiddvideo said:

Two ponderances atm: The younger Italian brother Gaetano, was he the one traded to the Irish?

No, Josto (Jason Schwartzman) was traded to the Irish. They did a quick fade in/out between the kid and adult actors at one point, and Josto was definitely that kid. I hope they explain why the brother grew up in Italy. I'm not sure how old he's supposed to be, but it seems strange that his parents would leave him in war-torn Italy when he had immediate family in the much safer US.

 

1 hour ago, Kiddvideo said:

I’d guess Rabbi felt he’d been betrayed first. The Irish father (who for some reason had been arrested for buggery and perversion whereas all the others had been arrested for crimes like extortion or racketeering) traded Rabbi twice, the second time there was a younger brother (who smirked at Rabbi) who should’ve gone. I couldn’t tell if the younger brother was killed in the massacre or if he could potentially come back for revenge.

Good points! Maybe Rabbi was motivated by his hatred and/or feeling of betrayal by his father, rather than feeling particularly close to the Fadda family. I, too, was curious about the buggery and perversion charges. I wonder if that was just to add some variety to the group of gangsters for the benefit of the viewers who bothered to read the text, or if they're actually going somewhere with it, like implying that he molested Rabbi (which would also explain Rabbi's actions against him). They did this in season 2, when they heavily implied that Dodd Gerhardt sexually abused his wife and/or daughter Simone, but it was only mentioned briefly a few times and never became an explicit plot point.

 

1 hour ago, Kiddvideo said:

And surprise on me: I learned tonight Hanzee was the head of the Fargo Syndicate and murdered by Malvo.

Yeah, that was crazy!

[The Wild Sow]

4 hours ago, Kiddvideo said:

I can speculate who Mike’s parents are, but were Hanzee‘s murders just a parallel or could he have been traded for a Gerhardt son? (I don’t know who his parents or the 4th Gerhardt son would be.) And surprise on me: I learned tonight Hanzee was the head of the Fargo Syndicate and murdered by Malvo.

It was strongly implied that Hanzee was "the kid Otto had with the maid."  I have hard time picturing brash, mouthy Swanee turning into the Gerhardts' very quiet housekeeper/cook though.

But sure - -Hanzee became Moses Tripoli.  A little plastic surgery, a nice new "professional" haircut from Peggy (well, I guess she didn't really get to finish the haircut), some new identity papers, and there ya go!  And the last scene was meeting young Mr. Numbers and Mr. Wrench, who were dealing with some playground bullies at the time.

[Kiddvideo]

Thanks for helping with my knowledge gaps!

[cpcathy]

It is still my firm belief that in season two, when the KC mob guy says, "You must be the kid he had with the maid," he was joking. If Noah Hawley wrote that on purpose to mean something, then he never elaborated on it.

 

[seacliffsal]

Somehow I missed Timothy Olyphant-can someone tell me when he appeared?  I, too, thought there were way too many characters introduced but will hopefully be able to keep track of who is who.  

I am so very glad this is back.  The story didn't pull me in immediately like earlier seasons, but that's okay as I know I will end up loving this season.  It's been far too long since the prior season.

[Irlandesa]

13 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

Somehow I missed Timothy Olyphant-can someone tell me when he appeared?

That's okay.  I missed Jack Huston.

Timothy showed up at the very very end of the 2nd episode.  He was the leader of the people in the car who got out to bust down the door of the teen girl whose family had just gotten a pie from killer nurse.  I think they might be cops?

[madmax]

23 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

- In the scene with Nurse Mayflower and Josto in the supply room, was he really asking her to mercy-kill his father, or just asking her to give him more drugs to make sure he wasn't in any pain? I initially thought it was the former, but he looked surprised and confused to see her at the funeral (almost as though he barely remembered her), so now I'm not so sure. Either way, the ring she stole will definitely make another appearance.

 

I thought he was asking for her to mercy-kill him (actually, get-him-out-of-the-way-kill him) and she was just going to give him more meds to keep him comfortable because she was, you know, a normal nurse.  Of course, she didn't, because she's the Angel of Death, but did Josto know that?

21 hours ago, Kiddvideo said:

And surprise on me: I learned tonight Hanzee was the head of the Fargo Syndicate and murdered by Malvo.

 

I vaguely remember that being mentioned after season 2.  I wonder if it would be worth it to watch the whole series in chronological order, just to see if there are any more missed connections.

And YAY!  Timothy Olyphant!!  I have loved him since I first saw him in Scream 2.  

Edited September 30, 2020 by madmax

[Mrs Shibbles]

Another huge Easter egg was the ladies breaking out of prison, then cleaning up in the restroom sink, which was straight out of Raising Arizona, starring Jason Schwartzman’s first cousin, Nicholas Cage.

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, Mrs Shibbles said:

Another huge Easter egg was the ladies breaking out of prison, then cleaning up in the restroom sink, which was straight out of Raising Arizona, starring Jason Schwartzman’s first cousin, Nicholas Cage.

 Does this mean we should be expecting a Kevin Bacon connection?

[Razzberry]

On 9/28/2020 at 3:41 PM, SoMuchTV said:

Okay, I realized google is my friend. It’s a line from No Country for Old Men, a Coen brothers movie. But not one I’ve seen. 

You may not want to - it triggered an obsession in me to watch it more times than is probably healthy. 😉

 

26 minutes ago, Mrs Shibbles said:

Another huge Easter egg was the ladies breaking out of prison, then cleaning up in the restroom sink, which was straight out of Raising Arizona, starring Jason Schwartzman’s first cousin, Nicholas Cage.

Good catch!

[Mrs Shibbles]

More Raising Arizona

[Kiddvideo]

14 hours ago, madmax said:

I vaguely remember that being mentioned after season 2.  I wonder if it would be worth it to watch the whole series in chronological order, just to see if there are any more missed connections.

I've tossed the idea around. I have a theory percolating, but I need more info on the timeline of events. I don't know if it's worth the time sink plus I disliked season 3. I've never rewatched that one and don't remember it well enough to be able to tie any of it to KC. I mean, I'll find out sooner or later.

If it makes a difference, I didn't realize the Hanzee/Malvo connection from season 4. I was reading fan pages to refresh my memory.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Kiddvideo
clarity

[BC4ME]

On 9/29/2020 at 1:23 AM, Kiddvideo said:

And surprise on me: I learned tonight Hanzee was the head of the Fargo Syndicate and murdered by Malvo.

 

OK I actually went back and watched both episodes and I apparently still missed it, whereas others saw it -- how did you learn this??

[seacliffsal]

22 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

 

Timothy showed up at the very very end of the 2nd episode.  He was the leader of the people in the car who got out to bust down the door of the teen girl whose family had just gotten a pie from killer nurse.  I think they might be cops?

Thank you so much for letting me know.  I remember the scene but wasn't watching very closely so I missed him.  I will make up for that oversight during Episode 3.  Ever since Justified, I love me some Timothy Olyphant... (in an appropriate t.v. watcher/movie goer way...).

[Kiddvideo]

2 hours ago, BC4ME said:

OK I actually went back and watched both episodes and I apparently still missed it, whereas others saw it -- how did you learn this??

Oh no! I'm sorry. I learned it independently of Season 4. I was reading some site (Wiki? Fandom?) to refresh my memory before the new episodes.  

[Cherpumple]

On 9/29/2020 at 1:23 AM, Kiddvideo said:

And surprise on me: I learned tonight Hanzee was the head of the Fargo Syndicate and murdered by Malvo.

 

 

3 hours ago, BC4ME said:

OK I actually went back and watched both episodes and I apparently still missed it, whereas others saw it -- how did you learn this??

In season 1, the head of the Fargo syndicate is named Mr. Tripoli (he's murdered by Malvo in episode 7). He's an older heavyset dude that the hitmen Numbers and Wrench work for (Wrench is deaf and communicates with Numbers through sign language). In one of the last scenes in episode 10 of season 2, Hanzee is sitting on the bleachers of an outdoor park with a man who is giving him advice about starting a new life. He recommends reconstructive surgery and hands Hanzee documents to start his new identity. There's a close-up of the new SSN card, with the name Moses Tripoli on it. Then, the two boys that Hanzee had been watching on the playground get approached by two bullies, and Hanzee rushes over to defend them. Since one of the boys is using sign language, it's heavily implied that these two boys are young Numbers and Wrench. The actors playing Hanzee and the older Mr. Tripoli have nothing in common physically, in ways that no plastic surgery could account for, so the connection is really easy to miss.

19 hours ago, madmax said:

I wonder if it would be worth it to watch the whole series in chronological order, just to see if there are any more missed connections.

I did this before season 3 came out. It was fun, but there wasn't anything particularly revelatory. A few callbacks to certain lines of dialog and some visual gags, and some blink-and-you'll-miss-it character connections (like Hanzee and Mr. Tripoli), but not too much more. I've seen a lot of other Coen brother movies, but I'm not familiar enough with them to recognize any wider connections. But I love Easter Eggs, so keep 'em coming!

[madmax]

I was browsing another website's review and in the comments, someone put the names of the rival factions right next to each other and I laughed.

Cannon Fadda

Spoiler

Could there be some HUGE shoot out at the end and Rabbi Milligan saves Satchel's life, so he takes his name both in thanks and to distance himself from the Cannons?  Just a thought. 😉

 

[BC4ME]

15 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

 

In season 1, the head of the Fargo syndicate is named Mr. Tripoli (he's murdered by Malvo in episode 7). He's an older heavyset dude that the hitmen Numbers and Wrench work for (Wrench is deaf and communicates with Numbers through sign language). In one of the last scenes in episode 10 of season 2, Hanzee is sitting on the bleachers of an outdoor park with a man who is giving him advice about starting a new life. He recommends reconstructive surgery and hands Hanzee documents to start his new identity. There's a close-up of the new SSN card, with the name Moses Tripoli on it. Then, the two boys that Hanzee had been watching on the playground get approached by two bullies, and Hanzee rushes over to defend them. Since one of the boys is using sign language, it's heavily implied that these two boys are young Numbers and Wrench. The actors playing Hanzee and the older Mr. Tripoli have nothing in common physically, in ways that no plastic surgery could account for, so the connection is really easy to miss.

 

Thanks you so much for this! I actually went back and rewatched each season (in order) before the premier of season four. I connected the dots on all of the other things you mentioned except the reimagined Hanzee as Moses Tripoli being the older heavyset man that Malvo murders. Kind of a stretch IMO and I wish they would've made it a little more obvious/believable although I realize that's part of the game for the Coen brothers.

At any rate, I already like this season much better than season three, which was ruined for me mainly because of the beyond disgusting Varga character. I had to look away or fast forward though most of his scenes on second watch and I cannot ever remember doing that on any show. And I feel like I've seen a lot of Coen brothers' work over the years too. If that was their goal -- mission accomplished.