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S11.E08: Top 18 Perform, 2 Eliminated


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Loved the opening routine... but was I the only distracted by some of the black tiles moving out of the chessboard formation? 

 

Really really pleased to see Keone & Mari back. The only problem is that I always want to see them dance their choreography. The routine actually grew on me on 2nd watch. Jacque was surprisingly good, and Zach is, IMO, the dark horse of the competition. He has oodles of charisma when he's dancing and is able to give a mature performance. Nigel hit it the nail that he complimented Zach's commitment; I think that really sets him apart from the others. They're my top couple so far. 

 

Casey/Brooklyn and Teddy/Emily - to me, the female half of these partnerships do not have stage presence or the ability to elevate a routine to great. Brooklyn to me is currently the weakest on the female side; she just looked uncomfortable in that jazz routine while Casey was selling it like a car salesman. I see potential in Casey, but the partnership is not helping him grow at all. Emily is technically good, but she's like a non-entity when she dances. Her body is moving the way it's supposed to, but there's no feeling in it. My love for Teddy is irrational, and I admit to it haha. 

 

Ricky/Valerie are absolutely adorable together off-stage, but a terrible pair on-stage. It's been said: Valerie dances heavy, she has floppy muppet arms, she's not very graceful. And both their footwork was terrible in that waltz. The shuffling of their feet was so distracting, plus there was a lack of grace and prettiness in Valerie's arms. I don't know what drugs the judges were on when they heaped all that praise on. Just, NO. I will join, however, join in the chorus of people who loved Valerie's dress.

 

I still really like Ricky, but his next routine needs to be one which allows him to shows a different facet of his dancing or I'm gonna get bored.

 

Speaking of the judges being on drugs, that standing O for the Broadway number was ridiculous. Rudy's dancing is very raw and unpolished, and his transitions are awkward. There's no dynamics or nuance in his movement. Tanisha is growing on me. I thought she really sold the character of that piece and I enjoyed her a lot despite the over-coiffed hair. 

 

Tasty Oreo always looks and sounds so self-satisfied. Please go away. 

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Tasty Oreo always looks and sounds so self-satisfied. Please go away.

I must confess...I think I was the one that summoned him. I mentioned his name in the last thread, and lo he appeared. I am terribly, terribly sorry. If it's any consolation, this is one of those cases where I require no punishment because the consequences of my own actions are punishment enough.

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So my belated thoughts on the episode (since my computer decided to crash on me when I finished writing my post earlier):

 

I loved the skeleton hip hop and Carly was fantastic!  It is a little earlier for their faces to be covered in makeup because I don't remember which one she is but at least I know her name now!  Serge was a bit stiff but the choreography was great and Carly made up for it.  The slinkiness in the routine vaguely reminded me of this gem from SYTYCD Canada:

http://youtu.be/D844JhW7uCY

 

The other hip hop was good too - I loved how intricate it was and it was definitely something different than what we've seen, so I appreciated that.  Zack and Jacque continue to surprise me - I didn't think very much of them at the beginning but between that and the African jazz last week they are really showing off their versatility.

 

I'm so over Rudy.  I thought the broadway choreography was fantastic and Tanisha did a commendable job with it but I just can't stand Rudy.  His crush on Jacque seems extremely manufactured, like he just needed a distraction to dull the pain after Nick got cut.  And by the way, I adored Nick, so every time I see Rudy it's just another painful reminder that Nick is gone.  Rudy isn't even some "street performer" who has never pointed his toes before, so why do they give him a pass on everything?

 

Speaking of pointing your toes, did anyone notice that Brooklyn shot herself in the foot during judging?  Nigel was saying how she did such a great job because it's not like she's ever trained to dance like that before and then she was like, well yes I've trained...  I was thinking, wow here Nigel was pretty much excusing you for your performance and you just threw it back in his face.  Not very good with strategy, that one.

 

As for the waltz, I've seen a lot of amateur waltzed attempted at weddings so I'm pretty much used to seeing the butchered kind.  Valerie's dress was absolutely lovely and I thought they did a decent job compared to other waltzes I've seen, just not to the standard that it should be on this show.  That said, they both have a light radiating in them when they dance (versus other dancers who dance beautifully but come off as cold), so I think they'll make it far.  They pretty much just need to make sure that they don't completely screw up and they'll probably sail into the top 10.

 

Oh also I loved the opening group number.  Again, so refreshing to see new choreographers.

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I must confess...I think I was the one that summoned him. I mentioned his name in the last thread, and lo he appeared. I am terribly, terribly sorry. If it's any consolation, this is one of those cases where I require no punishment because the consequences of my own actions are punishment enough.

Just think good and hard about what you've done. ;)

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(edited)

As for the waltz, I've seen a lot of amateur waltzed attempted at weddings so I'm pretty much used to seeing the butchered kind.  Valerie's dress was absolutely lovely and I thought they did a decent job compared to other waltzes I've seen, just not to the standard that it should be on this show.  That said, they both have a light radiating in them when they dance (versus other dancers who dance beautifully but come off as cold), so I think they'll

make it far.  They pretty much just need to make sure that they don't completely screw up and they'll probably sail into the top 10.

 

The issue for me is this was supposed to be a Viennese Waltz.  The Viennese Waltz is much faster and far less rise and fall (due to the quickness of it).  It makes sense why you'd compare it to a bad wedding waltz. It wasn't even recognizable as a Viennese.
Edited by LadyArcadia
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I squee'd when they announced Keone and Mari. Looooove them! I agree with an earlier poster that I would rather see them do their own choreo instead, though I think Zack and Jacque did at least as well as could be expected with that very intricate, unique style. Zack keeps surprising me; he reminds me of a dorky little brother type (and yes, he does need to whiten those teeth), but then he just totally kills his routines. I hope he goes far. 

 

Jacque/Rudy fauxmance is so dumb. They're okay dancers, but I'm willing to have them both go next week just so we can be done with this BS already.

 

Totally agreed that Jourdan's facial expressions did not match her body movements and it bugged me, so I wasn't sorry to see her go. I could say more negative things but girlfriend is ripped and could totally squash me like a bug so I'll stop. I wanted to like Stanley, but I do think he needed more control over his huge movements and it would have been difficult for any partner to be in sync with him. Sad that he had to go out on a crappy routine. That giant throw rug had the exact opposite effect of a flying carpet. It weighed the dancers down. 

 

Ricky and Valerie got lost in those huge costumes, and it obviously wasn't a style either of them were comfortable with, but I still think they're an interesting pair that usually works when they probably shouldn't. I'm really curious to see what a hip-hop routine with them will look like. 

 

Carly! So fun in the skeleton routine! I watched that one over and over. And Serge...was also there. :) Nigel's "critique" made no sense whatsoever. "It was fine but America won't vote for you because they don't understand hip-hop." Um, okay. Why don't you just let us decide that for own damn selves, Uncle Nige. 

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Ok - for what it's worth I was watching Afterbuzz and the fauxmance was brought up. According to Lyndsay and her mom who are in the loop, it's not faux. They've gone out for ice cream and it's all sweet and everything.  Believe it or not as you prefer.

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(edited)

I must confess...I think I was the one that summoned him. I mentioned his name in the last thread, and lo he appeared. I am terribly, terribly sorry. If it's any consolation, this is one of those cases where I require no punishment because the consequences of my own actions are punishment enough.

It wasn't so bad.  He had two forgettable routines (well, I remember the music from one because the song was awesome), neither seemed to exploit Tragedy to try and get some kind of emotional response from the audience, and as I said above it was kinda funny imagining how he felt as Nigel heaped praise on the legit Broadway choreographer.  

 

All in all, it's probably my favorite appearance of his.  Certainly the least offensive...not that I'm looking for more, mind you.

Edited by phoenix780
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Ok - for what it's worth I was watching Afterbuzz and the fauxmance was brought up. According to Lyndsay and her mom who are in the loop, it's not faux. They've gone out for ice cream and it's all sweet and everything.  Believe it or not as you prefer.

I tend to believe it because that's exactly the kind of shenanigans that Cat loves. It's her catnip, so to speak. (I wonder what her catponite is, if anything?)

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Speaking of pointing your toes, did anyone notice that Brooklyn shot herself in the foot during judging?  Nigel was saying how she did such a great job because it's not like she's ever trained to dance like that before and then she was like, well yes I've trained...  I was thinking, wow here Nigel was pretty much excusing you for your performance and you just threw it back in his face.  Not very good with strategy, that one.

It actually gave me more respect for Brooklyn when she did that. Too many times Nigel has misrepresented these dancers to the general public by claiming they're untrained in something. All one has to do is look at the internet and see that Brooklyn is from the Arnold dance studio and part of the cross-trained "Vibe" tribe. If we know that on the internet; Nigel sure as hell knew it as a producer. He's always trying to push this "look at how progressive we are" narrative to the audience. It backfired on him (IMO) when Brooklyn corrected him and admitted to having training in Jazz. She even further admitted in after show interviews that she knows her technique isn't great and that she and Casey were working on it all week. I really liked her honesty and maybe even naivete' after that. She's not affected yet. She still does absolutely nothing for me on the dance floor and I wouldn't be sad to see her leave next week, but I really liked her as a person after that.

 

On the subject of Emmy submissions I saw being discussed, it is true that the choreographers are able to submit 3 of their pieces for consideration themselves. 

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Missy Arnold and Lyndsay talked a bit about the way the comments suggested to the audience who to not vote for. They loved the hip hop skeleton dance and were concerned that Nigel might have caused people not to vote for Carley.  and Serge. 

They also said that Serge is not cross trained like the other ballroom people..he is more or less strictly ballroom (see what I did there?)  with minimal recent cross training if any.

They mentioned that comments were uneven - pointing up technique flaws for some and not others etc.  It was interesting.

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Tasty Oreo always looks and sounds so self-satisfied. Please go away. 

 

Was anyone else super annoyed when Stanley and Jessica walked in to see him, and he didn't even get up from the 'magic carpet' to greet them? He sat on his ass and barely acknowledged them. Ruuuuuuude. 

 

Ok - for what it's worth I was watching Afterbuzz and the fauxmance was brought up. According to Lyndsay and her mom who are in the loop, it's not faux. They've gone out for ice cream and it's all sweet and everything.  Believe it or not as you prefer.

 

Aww. I don't mind that. I wondered if they were pulling a Katniss & Peeeta. 

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What do we all think about the choreographers giving us moves?  

I got to see more Pasha and Anya, so that's good. I only wish they'd been the ones demonstrating.

 

He was really weird about Carly and Serge's awesome skeleton dance, too. Why wouldn't anyone vote for that?

I suspect he's trying a little reverse psychology.

 

Pasha and Anya were from season 3, Mary. (She said 2.) I hear "Tacky" now when that song comes on. Thanks, Weird Al! (not sarcasm)

 

Rudy, you were supposed to tell us something we didn't know about Tanisha. We all already knew her family is huge.

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The only one I really feel drawn to in any way is Zach. He is just so freakin' adorable and dances fearlessly like he loves it. I can't help responding to the fact that he just seems like a decent, charming person. Everyone else is fine and I enjoy watching the routines each week for my interest in dance, but I don't feel like a "fan" of anyone. I don't feel nervous about who will be eliminated. I don't usually much care.

I will say that Casey was quite stunning in his routine this week. Compared to some dancers that seemed to get lauded as the princess of the whole show for having good costuming, I thought he was way under complimented when you think about what he did. That said, I wouldn't care much if he left. Ha.

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I suspect he's trying a little reverse psychology

I don't know. I have never bought that they actually strategically do this. How would they know when it would work and when it would backfire?? Sometimes when they are mean to someone who appeared to dance well, viewers tend to feel like Nigel obviously "sent the bus" for so and so. I simply can't accept that every single time Nigel disses someone, that's the person he actually most wants votes for. That would just be a weird strategy. So if we assume he is sometimes really just being negative because he doesn't favor the dancer, I just never understood how we could possibly know when Nigel was criticizing someone to send the bus at them vs generate votes for them, or how Nigel himself could possibly know when criticism would send someone home vs generate more votes for them. It seems like it would always be bizarrely risky to diss someone you really wanted votes for, so I just have always interpreted all his negative comments as meaning he has negative feelings. I really don't think they sometimes randomly say, "well, I loved it, but instead of the standing O this time, I will say it was problematic instead to really lock in those votes." If they thought this reverse psychology *reliably* worked, why not do it every time? If they think it isn't reliable, why ever risk it?? How would they arbitrarily decide when it would work and when it wouldn't?

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(edited)
The only one I really feel drawn to in any way is Zach. He is just so freakin' adorable and dances fearlessly like he loves it. I can't help responding to the fact that he just seems like a decent, charming person.

 

I agree that Zach has been doing well and seems sweet and wholesome.  My problem is, I never remember when Teddy or Zach are dancing, or which one is which.  I think I might be having a hard time seeing their faces and they seem so cross-trained or something that I can't pick them out by their style of dance.

 

I suspect he's trying a little reverse psychology

I don't know. I have never bought that they actually strategically do this.

 

As a fellow skeptic, I wish I could like your post multiple times, TVSallyS.  If anything, my problem with Nigel's comments is that I think he goes too far overboard in expressing his true feelings: if he likes someone, he praises them so much that it may backfire, and if he doesn't like someone, he sometimes can be so harsh that people are galvanized to save them.  But it seems to me that is more likely to be the voters' emotional response rather than any forethought on Nigel's part.

 

We both could be wrong and Nigel might be an evil manipulative genius.  Nah.  Frankly, he doesn't seem that smart. 

Edited by ToxicUnicorn
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Maybe Nigel said that because two of the couples in the bottom did hip-hop last week.  So he thinks viewers don't vote for it. I think it's because they weren't performed well as a couple. Bridget and Serge can't do it. Emily was just ok.

 

On after buzz,I like how they called out Oreo for his carpet dance.  Lindsay said she didn't blame Stanley and Jessica for their expressions because of the choreography.  They also said that Valerie was not called out on her technique because Nigel wants a female tapper in the top 10.

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My problem is, I never remember when Teddy or Zach are dancing, or which one is which.  I think I might be having a hard time seeing their faces and they seem so cross-trained or something that I can't pick them out by their style of dance.

 

It's true that both Teddy and Zack seem very versatile, but the real test will be when they have to do ballroom. Because that's the one most contemporary or hip hop dancers have trouble with. Poor Zack will never get to show off his tap specialty unless he makes the top 10 and they get an all-star to do a routine with him.

 

The more I watch the Keone and Mariel Hip Hop routine, the more I like it. It's such a well-danced and honestly emoted (without over-doing) piece, from the very beginning when Zack was just lying there without moving. And the little moment where he lifted her chin before going around the stage was wonderful.

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I could watch the Bridget/Emilio jive over and over -- and have. Bridget was so crisp, light, and perfectly expressive, and Emilio looked like he was having a blast and totally pulled off the sometimes cheesy ballroom pointing. They seem to work really well together.

Forgot to say... I really want to like Ricky's performances more, but I find his proportions throw things off. Then in this waltz, it looked like Valerie was leading, particularly in the first 30 sec. I feel like he doesn't have enough upper body strength or presence for partner work, but on his own I think he's a beautiful dancer. Though I enjoyed his performance with Jessica.

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I think Valerie is too tall/big for Ricky. That's why I wish he was paired with Tanisha.  She's also a better dancer. Carly and Jessica are also small enough but I think they wanted to mix up the genres.  They are using Ricky to help Valerie to the top 10.

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I don't know. I have never bought that they actually strategically do this. How would they know when it would work and when it would backfire?? Sometimes when they are mean to someone who appeared to dance well, viewers tend to feel like Nigel obviously "sent the bus" for so and so. I simply can't accept that every single time Nigel disses someone, that's the person he actually most wants votes for. That would just be a weird strategy. So if we assume he is sometimes really just being negative because he doesn't favor the dancer, I just never understood how we could possibly know when Nigel was criticizing someone to send the bus at them vs generate votes for them, or how Nigel himself could possibly know when criticism would send someone home vs generate more votes for them. It seems like it would always be bizarrely risky to diss someone you really wanted votes for, so I just have always interpreted all his negative comments as meaning he has negative feelings. I really don't think they sometimes randomly say, "well, I loved it, but instead of the standing O this time, I will say it was problematic instead to really lock in those votes." If they thought this reverse psychology *reliably* worked, why not do it every time? If they think it isn't reliable, why ever risk it?? How would they arbitrarily decide when it would work and when it wouldn't?

Good points and questions, and I don't have answers but will say that at this point it doesn't seem too risky because Nigel et al. still decide who to send home. So if it backfires, no big deal.

 

On the bold, I don't believe this either.

 

And I only heard his comments once (that's enough), but it didn't seem like he was dissing Serge and Carly. Rather, he may have been dissing the voters. Is that an important distinction? I don't know. I try not to think about machinations, honestly, but this critique made me wonder.

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I think Valerie is too tall/big for Ricky.

 

I feel like a lot of the guys are too small for the girls.  It's weird, and I'm probably not right in a factual sense, but it seems like a season of tiny male dancers, even the taller ones are super skinny.  Which is to say, I'm not sure anyone in this cast would be tall/big enough for Valerie (who I don't think is all that big).

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Sigh.  We've been saying so for YEARS now.  Drives me crazy. Of course, if Nigel has managed to succeed in throwing Marquet under the bus, the issue will go away for this season (or am I forgetting someone of colour in the cast?) 

 

Rudy and Ricky are Latino.

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The discussion about the smallish guys trying to lift the girls reminds me of one of my favorite comments ever on this show. It was by Debbie Allen, and I couldn't remember who she said it to, so looked it up on the google machine. I will just quote from The Baltimore Sun's article.

 

Debbie gushed enthusiastically:
 

 

"You handled your big woman, honey." -- Debbie Allen (Debbie Allen) to the shortest male contestant, Evan, who was paired with Kayla, the tallest female contestant.

 

 

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The more I watch the Keone and Mariel Hip Hop routine, the more I like it. It's such a well-danced and honestly emoted (without over-doing) piece, from the very beginning when Zack was just lying there without moving. And the little moment where he lifted her chin before going around the stage was wonderful.

 

I just watched it again, a few times, and it is so beautiful!  The music and the movement went together perfectly.  There is something about the way Zach moves that just takes my breath away!

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I feel like a lot of the guys are too small for the girls.  It's weird, and I'm probably not right in a factual sense, but it seems like a season of tiny male dancers, even the taller ones are super skinny.  Which is to say, I'm not sure anyone in this cast would be tall/big enough for Valerie (who I don't think is all that big).

Marcquet is tall and has a bigger build.  Zach, teddy, and Stanley are tall. They are skinny but could still partner Valerie. I think Ricky is one of the smallest guys there in height and build.

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(edited)

What's weird to me about the Valerie thing is that the judges are usually hyper aware of needing to create partnerships that work size wise. Remember how over the top negative they were about that one tango that sent the other Ricky home another season? It was like they were personally offended/revolted they had to watch a dance with a size discrepancy that made the woman look "un feminine" and the man look "unmanly". They were vicious about how horrible it looked, if I recall, thoroughly humiliating both dancers for something that wasn't their fault (didn't they say it was like watching a little boy dancing with his mom or something?) If it bothered them so much, I would think they would be hypersensitive to it at this point and do a better job creating partnerships.

Edited by TVSallyS
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Thanks to the person who posted the Youtube link to the SYTYCD Canada routine…it really made me miss the Canadian series. The choreography was consistently good and just more interesting. For me, the older (i.e. 20+) dancers just bring more weight to emotional routines. 

 

Anyway on to this new season. I have a lot of gripes about Nigel's judging and pandering but am grateful, frankly, for any show that focuses on dance!  Misty Copeland was a great judge and I hope she comes back. Her constructive criticism mixed with doses of kindness seems to have forced Nigel and Mary to up their game as well, which is always welcome. Love Cat as usual. 

 

Favourites so far are definitely Carly and Serge. They killed the contemporary last week, the only routine I re-watched, and this week I've been surprised by how good Carly was in the hip-hop. I thought Serge kept up for being a ballroom dancer who's not cross-trained at all (as somebody upthread said.) 

 

This week's judging "what the hell" moment for me was Nigel's standing ovation for the Ricky/Valerie Viennese Waltz. She looked amazing thanks to the costuming but her arms were clunky, her neck, entire upper torso look stiff instead of graceful and fluid. Luckily the huge gown hid her foot and leg-work but she couldn't manage to point her feet for her single extension during the entire routine? It just looked bad. 

 

I enjoyed Jourdan and Marquet's dance and was sad to see Jourdan go. I think her personality just doesn't translate well to this kind of show. She's not jumping around, bright and smiley all the time. The opening set-up in the umbrella routine was gorgeous. I did see Marquet's partnering problems that the judges pointed out, particularly during a lift towards the end when he's picking her up with one arm (while she's facing the opposite direction). You can see his toes coming off the floor as he rolled back on his heels and I was afraid both were going to topple over for one second.

 

Zack is definitely a dark horse in the this race. Great connection with his partner and he brings a weight and maturity to the routines. I couldn't' stand Bridget's dead-daddy soundbites and I thought she had lazy feet during her 1st week contemporary routine, but she looked right at home in the jive this week. 

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I agree that Serge didn't keep up in the Hip Hop. He was flopping all over the place and lost the character the entire time. I nitpick on Valerie all the time but Ricky was just as bad as her in the Viennese Waltz. I would give a pass to Emilio though because he at least got the entertainment part locked down. But then it's easier for him because of his jive routine is more energetic and fun than what Marcquet got.

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Tanisha reminds me of Uma Thurman.

 

I have been enjoying Zach's progress since his first audition. His routine tonight was pretty cool. Cassey was pretty good too. For the girls I thought Tanisha was the most memorable.

 

Who summoned T twice?

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(edited)

 

.......  There is something about the way Zach moves that just takes my breath away!

No doubt in my mind, Zack is so much more than a tapper. He is actually passing Ricky as my favorite and I never thought I would be saying that when the season started.


Marcquet is tall and has a bigger build.  Zach, teddy, and Stanley are tall. They are skinny but could still partner Valerie. I think Ricky is one of the smallest guys there in height and build.

Zack doesn't appear to be that small in build to me. I've seen a photo of him that shows a good amount of musculature on him.

Edited by luvthepros
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For Stanley, it wasn't just the lighting.  They dressed him in clothes that almost blended with his skin. Marcquet had similar colors.

 

I agree that Zach is the dark horse.  He's been good in all his routines so far.

 

Even though Carly did the technique stuff in their contemporary, Serge's maturity helped with their connection. He helped Carly with that and I am not sure if she would have had that chemistry with someone younger since she is also young.  So Sonya choreographed to make them look good. She didn't make Serge do a bunch of contemporary technique.

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I liked the first dance very much, although I could have done without all the "mucking about" at the beginning, as Len from Dancing with the Stars would say.  Also the skeleton dance was great and Carly especially really killed it.  She fully took on the character and was loose and funky with the moves.  Waltzes usually bore me but I was so entranced by Valerie's dress and sparkly shoes that I barely noticed the dance itself!  Gimme the pretty sparkly stuff!

 

I didn't care for either of Tasty Oreo's dances.  It was really nice to see some fresh choreographers instead of the same old same old.

 

Was kind of sorry to see Stanley go.  Somebody has it out for Marcquet.

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Hey, folks, just a reminder to be respectful of other posters. We don't snark on each other here.

 

If you want to defend a performance that is being critiqued, please explain what you see in the performance that's positive instead of getting an attitude towards others who perceive it differently. 

 

Thanks.

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I forgot to mention that I thought Cat was looking kind of weird.  She had on really dark lipstick that accentuated her expressions and made them look kind of weird, plus the dark eyeliner gave her eyes an odd shape, almost like they were tilting downward and kind of sad.  But I liked her pantsuit.

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I finally watched all the dances (although not the judge's commentary). To me, Tanisha, Jessica, and Bridget so far seem like the best of the women with Tanisha being my current favorite. I thought Bridget looked weak in the audition rounds, but so far, she's nailing her competition routines. 

 

For the boys, my favorites are Emilio and Zach and everyone else is blurring together into competency-but-not-excellence. I don't see the issues with Marcquet that the judges claimed, although of all things his hair distracted me a bit by falling into his face during the dance. I'm not sure how it could have been styled differently though because he would look funny with his hair pulled back. I feel like there must have been other men with longer hair on the show, but I'm blanking on any. Still long hair is so common... there must be a generally accepted style for male long-haired dancers that keeps their hair out of their faces,

 

Rudy seems so obviously bad to me that it is still a mystery how he got on the show. He has fun when he dances, sure, but his lines were completely off in the jazz with Tanisha, while she nailed everything. Unfortunately, if YouTube comments are to be believed, he is popular and will probably be outlasting many a more talented dancer.

 

Just please not Emilio. I can live with losing any male dancer at this point but Emilio and Zach. I need them both to at least make top 10. 

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