S10.E16: Denise and Desist

[Chalby]

3 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Finally Dorito is living in a house that I like. Not as much as I like Kyle's (outside) or Rinna's, but it is better than anything she has lived in for far. 

Is it the 'norm' to throw a housewarming party when you're living in a rental?

[Chalby]

4 hours ago, Beachdreamer said:

Kyle managed to make Teddi and Erika do her dirty work of calling Denise out for "mean" comments  and in doing so, bringing the accusation about Brandi to light, and she just sat there with her fake surprised look. 

Despite Erika's confronting Denise on whether Brandi was a liar or not, I found Erika wasn't about to give any more discussion to the story. Erika remains my favourite cast member, and one worth keeping after we dump Kyle, Terry and Lisa. I can almost guarantee that Kyle's conversations with her sister, preceded Brandi spilling the tea about Denise. Kyle has resented Denise popularity since she joined the show. That became the impetus for Denise's private experiences being broadcast, while Kyle pretended to be shocked at what was being said. Teddi (conveniently and par usual) was Kyle's best buddy who happened to also be present to witness Brandi's exchange. So obvious...

[ivygirl]

22 minutes ago, Chalby said:

I agree! I couldn't believe it when the producer approach Garcelle in her vehicle and began to point out that Garcelle should feel upset because she had been defending Denise, while Denise blows her off. Garcelle was relatively fine prior to that producer whispering his poison in her ear. And Lisa Rinni was experiencing far too much glee during her visit with Denise, especially when she was smirking while pointing out how angry Denise was. Who knows, maybe  Brandi and Denise set this whole storyline in motion, knowing it would make for a popular storyline?

Rinna made me physically ill during that last scene with Denise. 

[Chalby]

4 hours ago, lyric said:

By far, the most intriguing moment from tonight was Sutton stating how we didn't need to worry about any rumors of her having sex with Brandy because "I mean, look at me." with an eye roll. 

When Sutton said the above, my heart went out to her and I also remembered what my Mom used to say me... "Don't openly go around, tearing yourself down as there are plenty of others lined up to do the same. So don't give them free ammunition."

[Afwife1992]

6 hours ago, njbchlover said:

You are 1,000% correct!!  Even the producer was pissed....I've never seen so much producer interaction in a RH show.  That guy talking to Garcelle seemed really angry over Denise being a no-show.

I think this is why Aaron made the clumsy excuse. Denise may have felt *she* couldn’t break the fourth wall and reveal the setup. But then the producer did because they were pissed she wouldn’t play the game. Especially if they’d had to arrange brandi’s second appearance, after the shower, to try and trap her. 

[bosawks]

I’m a little disappointed that Aaron didn’t use the excuse that confidential informants had told him Big Pharma was going to be at the party and obviously they couldn’t come under threat of their very lives.....

That certainly constitutes a “family emergency”.

[CrinkleCutCat]

2 hours ago, Chalby said:

I have seen Sutton in a few hideous couture pieces and I can only assume she figures a high price tag is a guarantee that she'll look good. (Psst... Sutton, your outfits look atrocious.)

Oh Darlink...... it’s about everyone knowing you spent a *fortune*, not about how you look!

[film noire]

22 hours ago, Emmeline said:

I can’t stand Rinna with her silly hair persona.

Me neither (and which Rinna persona hissed "You're sooo angry" with all the charm of Gollum dry-humping Precious?  Someone from her line of Manson Girl wigs? "Here's the Squeaky Fromme wash & wear  -  perfect for assassinations - body or character!")  

21 hours ago, janiema said:

A party with Kim, Brandi and Faye Resnick.

What a trio:  Feel-My-Titter, I'm So Bitter and Forever-The-Nicole-Brown-Shitter. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by film noire

[Legalbeagle421]

I will say that it bothered me that Denise met up with Camille the way she did. Denise accused Camille of making RACIST comments last season that offended her and were offensive to her daughter who is a percentage black due to one of her biological parents. Now all of the sudden Camille is fine because Denise needs someone to complain to? 🤔 I understand Denise not wanting to engage with the other women, but this causes major side-eye energy from me. 
 

ETA: adding a link here in case anyone isn’t familiar with what I’m referring to. https://www.newsweek.com/denise-richards-camille-grammer-rhobh-1452623

Edited August 27, 2020 by Legalbeagle421
Adding link for reference

[psychoticstate]

9 hours ago, nexxie said:

Another creepy moment from Rinna: “Ooh, you’re so angry.”

Creepy and the perfect example of deflection, which they all seem to be screaming about with regard to Denise.

I liked Rinna when she first came on the show but she is a friend to no one.  Someone needs to remind her how she reacted when Kim brought up Harry Hamlin at the dinner n Amsterdam.  Talk about angry.

I did love how Dorit said "Kyle!" as soon as she saw Brandi Glanville was trashing up her home.  Kyle can play dumb all she wants but OF COURSE she knew Kim was bringing her (and Kyle also can't fully hide her glee that Brandi was there.)

I don't blame Denise for not showing.  I probably wouldn't either.  She knew it would be a pile-on, not to mention it would take away from the actual purpose of the party.

Has production ever gotten this involved before?  Twice now in the last 2 or 3 episodes we've seen production interfere.  First, by telling Denise that she needed to return to the Rome pizza dinner.  Denise isn't a child, I think she can decide for herself.  Have they ever told anyone else that you have to return to anything because you've said something and it's not fair to leave before other people respond?  (Frankly, in the real world does anyone operate like that?)  And second by telling Garcelle that Denise being a no-show for Dorit's party is not cool because Garcelle stood up for Denise.  Talk about stoking the fire and shit stirring.  

At least Denise knows it's a cease and desist (looking at you, Tamra Judge.)  

I was grateful that we were spared any Erika Jayne during the party.  

I look forward to the reunion, if only because I hope Denise rips every one of these women (with the exception of Dorit and Garcelle) to shreds.  

[Keywestclubkid]

I really really think that production and the ladies thought we would all be on the bandwagon of hating Denise. And as the season played out they came to the realization that maybe just maybe they have fucked up... still #TeamDenise no one gave a shit that Denise “might have” done something with Brandi and their mommy shamming scheme went nowhere ... they all came across as the assholes 

[Baltimore Betty]

First, Faye and Adrienne remind us that jumpsuits look good on no one.  Was Adrienne wearing a wig?

Second, PK has a given us a half hearted attempt at a promo for a new non alcoholic champagne, obviously there is a brand name behind the bar but the camera never pans on the whole thing so we have no idea what that product is.  Sorry PK, now your house warming party/product launch well, did not launch.  Will they serve your pink sugar water in the Capri Room at Bucca di Beppo?

Third, I think Brandi and Denise are really the same person because they are never seen in the same room at the same time.

I Googled Garcelle's movie, "Split Marriage" directed by Amy Barrett, there is nothing there, I do not smell an Oscar.

Rinna's wig looks fried and unhealthy and I really hate that grown out roots look, like you have missed your salon appointment for the last four months...and you paid big bucks for that look.

Loved Kyle digging in to the lasagna with no shame, I do love her Neely O'Hara look she does with her hair. 

I like the industrial farmhouse style, Dorit did a nice job, are we going to have an office betting pool on how long she stays in that house? I say one more season.

Kim, ick, Brandi, ick.  Brandi shows up looking like she is on her lunch break from Hollywood Blvd. Her Neely O'Hara look is just not.

How much would we love Denise showing up in some Forever 21 rainbow tee, ill fitting mom jeans and clunky Dr. Marten boots, drunk, loud and finally telling the truth to everyone in that party then kicking Brandi with a big clunky boot in to the pool.

That scene with Rinna talking to Denise and she say's "ooh, you are so angry," what the f psycho thing to say and the way she said it! If I were Denise, I would have told Rinna that she is not angry enough, thanks friend.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Baltimore Betty
Had another thought.

[Baltimore Betty]

Did Dorit buy the Weekender Versace suit? Back in the day a "Weekender Suit" was a blazer, slacks, and a skirt, you could pack it in a suit case and have something to wear for every occasion.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Baltimore Betty

[Lizzing]

8 hours ago, Pattycake2 said:

That little threesome lunch where they discussed Denise’s texts?  I think that was filmed later after the cease and desist letter was received by Bravo to try to create some kind of anti Denise narrative.

I completely agree it looked like it was filmed later to shape the narrative.  They could not have mentioned "Christmas" more times, so as to 'establish' when the scene was supposedly filmed.  And Dorit openly said that Denise/Aaron lied "to production"--so those crafting the narrative had to know at this point that the 4th was was going to slip.  Dorit isn't stupid; she wouldn't break the 4th wall haphazardly.  It was planned.  The sad thing is that all this planning to craft a storyline still resulted in perhaps the most boring, tedious (should I say Teddi-ous) season this show has ever produced.  The one upside to the whole affair is that it was only 16 episodes.  How they're going to put out a 3 part reunion is beyond me.  Will it be one hour of clips of Erika's Broadway performace?

[Baltimore Betty]

6 hours ago, Shannah Banana said:

That is the only logical explanation.  I have looked this dress over, up and sideways, and it is a catastrophe.  lol

"Even Gucci makes mistakes" - The Countess Lu

[Baltimore Betty]

Did anyone think Denise looked pregnant in her last talking head, she was wearing leopard print and she looked very full in the tummy, that and Aaron was setting up a little trailer like a Burly, I had one for the back of my bike, (I put the kids in it and would ride on the bike trail).

[OdinO.]

11 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

She’s so beautiful in general, but you’re right. She looks particularly gorgeous in red.

Phoenix is so cute. I want one! Lol 

I think Dorit’s home is beautiful. 

I love the new house. So much better than that 80s monstrosity from before.

 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Legalbeagle421 said:

I will say that it bothered me that Denise met up with Camille the way she did. Denise accused Camille of making RACIST comments last season that offended her and were offensive to her daughter who is a percentage black due to one of her biological parents. Now all of the sudden Camille is fine because Denise needs someone to complain to? 🤔 I understand Denise not wanting to engage with the other women, but this causes major side-eye energy from me. 
 

ETA: adding a link here in case anyone isn’t familiar with what I’m referring to. https://www.newsweek.com/denise-richards-camille-grammer-rhobh-1452623

Denise meeting with Camille was producer-driven just like Kyle's meeting with her earlier in the season.  It shows that Denise is willing to honor her contractual obligations as long as she is not getting ambushed by the ladies.  

[Lassus]

I'm way behind and haven't even started reading the thread; but the idea that Denise's absence was some kind of UNBELIEVABLE SHOCK was the thing that kept ringing out to me throughout the hour as total horseshit.

[Keywestclubkid]

At this point they should make Production cast members of this show with the input and manipulation they tried to pull so blatantly... put it all out there why these woman get so worked up its because of the bullshit production prodding and baiting and manipulating them to get a reaction they normally wouldn't get  to get Drama

[BloggerAloud]

9 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

i looked at this season by removing the characters from their scenes and looked closer at all of the fourth wall breaking and production manipulation that was exposed and have decided this season was so boring that production totally intruded to try to have anything "juicy" to film.

 

Production showing its hand really makes you think back at a lot of stuff from over the years because it shows they have such a hand in keeping certain dramas going and going. And I used to be like, "Why are we still fighting about this" and now some of it is a lot clearer.

[Little Lady Back]

Mauricio so wanted to cop a feel of his wife's gross sister's boob lol! What "friend" talks to another friend in the manner Rinna did to Denise? Denise should have showed Rinna just how damn angry she was and bitch slapped her lips off of her face!! Teddy is a nothing but a mouthpiece for her buddy, Kyle, who orchestrated and led her little mean girls all season long and managed to destroy the show in the process!! Way to go, ladies...       

[Keywestclubkid]

can I just say I LOVE everything about this recap of the episode?

 

I also don’t like that we see a producer manipulating Garcelle, and by extension us, the audience, but then we don’t see a producer saying to Denise while she was filming her confessional interviews that she needs to go talk to Lisa Rinna so that the season can have some closure. I have no doubt that conversation happened. If the show is now going to be transparent, then it needs to be transparent. Show us that filming was supposed to have wrapped but then producers made Dorit, Lisa, and Garcelle have a drink together to discuss what happened with Denise. They did not just “need to have a Christmas cocktail.” They were fulfilling a contractual obligation. Don’t just show us the bits where it is convenient for the producers and the narrative they’re trying to push. Show us all the strings that are hoisting these Botoxed puppets along so that we can make some decisions for ourselves.

What is for sure is that the show’s attempts to make us blame Denise are not working. Sure, at the drinks with Dorit and Garcelle we hear Lisa talking about how Denise manipulates the press, a skill she learned dealing with Charlie Sheen all of these years. Is what she’s saying true? Probably. I would believe that Denise is more devious than we have been led to believe. “She’s going to make us look like a bunch of mean girls, just watch,” Lisa says. First of all, she knew that because Denise literally called them mean girls in Italy. Also, Denise doesn’t need to make them look like mean girls, they’re doing a pretty good job of it themselves.

 

 

https://www.vulture.com/article/real-housewives-of-beverly-hills-season-10-finale-episode-16-denise-and-desist.html

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, BloggerAloud said:

Production showing its hand really makes you think back at a lot of stuff from over the years because it shows they have such a hand in keeping certain dramas going and going. And I used to be like, "Why are we still fighting about this" and now some of it is a lot clearer.

It does make more sense as to why pantygate or lategate dragged on like they did.  But, the producers are only doing this because the women are so guarded about their personal lives that they have to keep on stirring the pot.  That being said, I do think this show's producers want the dramatics more than the audience.  

[TurtlePower]

Team Denise of not, Denise is lying about her relationship with Brandi. The very first time I realized there was likely some truth to the story was when Teddi confronted her at the dinner--Denise said, "None of that is true" before Teddi even got a chance to tell Denise what the "really bad" thing was. So, Denise KNEW what it was about. Even though she's a pretty good actress, she lost her composure for a bit as most people do who are caught in a lie. Being a trained interviewer/investigator, that's when I knew Denise was being deceptive. Then of course Sutton had heard the rumor months earlier. 

Denise worked so hard to shut this thing up (without ever talking to Brandi about it), it made her look even more guilty. She avoided the party because she didn't want to run into Brandi. She never confronted Brandi over it, she ran from it. Denise ran because she likely had a relationship with Brandi, so there was no conversation that would have helped her.  Denise probably figured it would be easy to make Brandi look like the bad guy because she's, well, Brandi: A drunk flake. Who's going to believe drunk Brandi (I suspect Denise does her share of imbibing herself but hides it better). 

I don't understand why Denise "Happy Endings" Richards made a prudish about-face this season. It seems planned and deliberate and Denise really tried too hard. She can't  change her image from last season (which I liked!), it's recorded for all to watch over and over. What is WITH Denise this season? What would be the big deal if she has a relationship with Brandi? Who cares? And as far as Denise getting mad at everyone, well it's hard to support someone when a lie start unraveling. Brandi may be Brandi but just because she's flighty doesn't mean her story doesn't hold up. 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by TurtlePower

[Keywestclubkid]

5 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

 

I don't understand why Denise "Happy Endings" Richards made a prudish about-face this season.

 

She didnt make a about face ... She shut down the,m talking about fucking around underage children and got dragged for it ...... She was attacked all season for Mommy shamming them because she dare ask them to hold off on the adult talk until her daughters and their friends were not in ear shot ... She had no chance to be herself this season because she was attacked at every get together

Edited August 27, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[njbchlover]

9 hours ago, funnygirl said:

Was that Marysol from RHOMiami walking into Dorit's party with Adrianne? 

I thought so, too!  

[njbchlover]

6 hours ago, Chalby said:

I have seen Sutton in a few hideous couture pieces and I can only assume she figures a high price tag is a guarantee that she'll look good. (Psst... Sutton, your outfits look atrocious.)

To paraphrase Luann DeLesseps - "Even [insert ANY designer's name] makes mistakes, darling". 

This advice should be in huge letters in EVERY housewife's walk-in closet!!! That dress of Sutton's was one of the worst things I've ever seen!

[TurtlePower]

21 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

She didnt make a about face ... She shut down the,m talking about fucking around underage children and got dragged for it ...... She was attacked all season for Mommy shamming them because she dare ask them to hold off on the adult talk until her daughters and their friends were not in ear shot ... She had no chance to be herself this season because she was attacked at every get together

Sorry, that's not what I saw. Something happened this year that forced Denise to try and become someone else, and she tried too hard. Her own daughter said she laughed about the threesome chatter, it may have been a bit embarrassing but she wasn't scarred over it. I do get that the women should have kept it down at the event with kids. Growing up on a TV show meant to show a bunch of drama can't be fun for kids. 

Anyways. The women confronted Denise because they knew the version they were getting was not the easy-going version they got last year. It didn't go how Denise wanted it to and the more she deflected and ran, the worse it became. What I want to know is what happened that Denise felt she had to be like this this season? I liked Denise last season. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by TurtlePower
auto incorrect

[eleanorofaquitaine]

22 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I also don’t like that we see a producer manipulating Garcelle, and by extension us, the audience, but then we don’t see a producer saying to Denise while she was filming her confessional interviews that she needs to go talk to Lisa Rinna so that the season can have some closure. I have no doubt that conversation happened. If the show is now going to be transparent, then it needs to be transparent. Show us that filming was supposed to have wrapped but then producers made Dorit, Lisa, and Garcelle have a drink together to discuss what happened with Denise. They did not just “need to have a Christmas cocktail.” They were fulfilling a contractual obligation. Don’t just show us the bits where it is convenient for the producers and the narrative they’re trying to push. Show us all the strings that are hoisting these Botoxed puppets along so that we can make some decisions for ourselves.

What is for sure is that the show’s attempts to make us blame Denise are not working. Sure, at the drinks with Dorit and Garcelle we hear Lisa talking about how Denise manipulates the press, a skill she learned dealing with Charlie Sheen all of these years. Is what she’s saying true? Probably. I would believe that Denise is more devious than we have been led to believe. “She’s going to make us look like a bunch of mean girls, just watch,” Lisa says. First of all, she knew that because Denise literally called them mean girls in Italy. Also, Denise doesn’t need to make them look like mean girls, they’re doing a pretty good job of it themselves.

 

 

https://www.vulture.com/article/real-housewives-of-beverly-hills-season-10-finale-episode-16-denise-and-desist.html

I mean, I think you can only speak for yourself here (I do recognize that there are many people on this board who agree with you, but there are also people who think that Denise has looked bad throughout this whole thing). I do think that the show was pretty effective in showing us that Denise was trying to control the narrative to a point that has made her look bad. The reality is that Denise has been caught more than once contradicting herself (first, claiming that she never said bad things about Teddi and Erika, then admitting in the confessional she did; and last night, claiming that Brandi's texts were fake but then saying she had texts from Brandi, like WTF, Denise?; claiming that her daughter was harmed from the threesome conversation when the footage doesn't indicate that) and offering unconvincing denials about at least the existence of her relationship with Brandi, whether or not Brandi's claims about the nature of it is true.

I think a lot of people have come away from this season looking pretty bad - Kyle and Rinna, yes; but also Denise. Personally, and I know that many here disagree with me, but I don't think Teddi and Erika came off looking all that bad because I think that they were genuine in saying that all they cared about was whether or not Denise was badmouthing them. And it's clear she was, she's admitted to it, so I don't see them as off-base in their inquiries. Dorit, Sutton, and Garcelle (much as I find her thing with Kyle a little weird) all came off fine in the end, IMO, at least when it came to this situation.

One thing I will say re Sutton - I took her comments as "look at me" a little differently than anyone here. I don't think she was questioning her attractiveness. Her tone didn't sound like someone who was insecure, to me. I took as quite the opposite, and unfortunately, as homophobic. I thought she was essentially saying, "look at me, I am too obviously straight to ever even consider a same-sex relationship."  There is a damaging and untrue trope among some homophobic women to suggest that only unattractive women are lesbians, and that's what I thought Sutton was saying. Now, I could be misinterpreting it and maybe everyone else's interpretation is correct but I found Sutton to be an elitist snob and so I wouldn't be that surprised if she was homophobic, either. 

[njbchlover]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

First, Faye and Adrienne remind us that jumpsuits look good on no one.  Was Adrienne wearing a wig?

Second, PK has a given us a half hearted attempt at a promo for a new non alcoholic champagne, obviously there is a brand name behind the bar but the camera never pans on the whole thing so we have no idea what that product is.  Sorry PK, now your house warming party/product launch well, did not launch.  Will they serve your pink sugar water in the Capri Room at Bucca di Beppo?

Third, I think Brandi and Denise are really the same person because they are never seen in the same room at the same time.

I Googled Garcelle's movie, "Split Marriage" directed by Amy Barrett, there is nothing there, I do not smell an Oscar.

Rinna's wig looks fried and unhealthy and I really hate that grown out roots look, like you have missed your salon appointment for the last four months...and you paid big bucks for that look.

Loved Kyle digging in to the lasagna with no shame, I do love her Neely O'Hara look she does with her hair. 

I like the industrial farmhouse style, Dorit did a nice job, are we going to have an office betting pool on how long she stays in that house? I say one more season.

Kim, ick, Brandi, ick.  Brandi shows up looking like she is on her lunch break from Hollywood Blvd. Her Neely O'Hara look is just not.

How much would we love Denise showing up in some Forever 21 rainbow tee, ill fitting mom jeans and clunky Dr. Marten boots, drunk, loud and finally telling the truth to everyone in that party then kicking Brandi with a big clunky boot in to the pool.

That scene with Rinna talking to Denise and she say's "ooh, you are so angry," what the f psycho thing to say and the way she said it! If I were Denise, I would have told Rinna that she is not angry enough, thanks friend.

 

 

I love this entire post, especially the Neely O'Hara references!!!  Valley of the Dolls....now - that was some over-the-top drama!  

 

[Keywestclubkid]

2 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

Sorry, that's not what I saw. Something happened this year that forced Denise to try and become someone else, and she tried too hard. Her own daughter said she laughed about the threesome chatter, it may have been a bit embarrassing but she wasn't scarred over it. I do get that the women should have kept it down at the event with kids. Growing up on a TV show meant to show a bunch of drama can't be fun for kids. 

Anyways. The women confronted Denise because they knew the version they were getting was not the easy-going version they got last year. It didn't go how Denise wanted it to and the more she deflected and ran, the worse it became. What I want to know is what happened that Denise felt she had to be like this this season? I liked Denise last season. 

Again at what point did she have a opportunity to be herself? was it when they were all screaming at her that she was Denise wildthings Richard's  and she should let them talk about fucking around a special needs 7yo and her 14/15 yo sisters and their underage friends? or was it when they were screeching at her that she was mommy shamming them because she wouldn't let them talk about fucking around a special needs 7yo and her 14/15 yo sisters and their underage friends at a different gathering? or how about when they were screeching at her that she fucked Denise richards so they should have been allowed to talk about fucking around a special needs 7yo and her 14/15 yo sisters and their underage friends? or how about when the inferred that her underage daughters were prob sluts already because how could they not be look at their parents?  At no point was she not being attacked when she was around them and they tried everything to make her the bad guy when it was them that was in the wrong

[Keywestclubkid]

8 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Point 1:  claiming that her daughter was harmed from the threesome conversation when the footage doesn't indicate that) and offering unconvincing denials about at least the existence of her relationship with Brandi, whether or not Brandi's claims about the nature of it is true.

Point 2: I know that many here disagree with me, but I don't think Teddi and Erika came off looking all that bad because I think that they were genuine in saying that all they cared about was whether or not Denise was badmouthing them.

 

Point one ... it doesnt matter what her underage daughter said if it was ok or NOT she is still the parent of that child and has every right to say what is and isnt acceptable around that child until she is 18.....

 

Point 2... Denise's daughters know about 3somes they prob already have done some i mean look at their parents (this was said about someones UNDERAGE children and the other ladies agreed to it) ....... who was bad mouthing who? they all talked shit about denise before they even knew she said anything bad about them so that is a hypocritical point

Edited August 27, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[Gini67]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Did anyone think Denise looked pregnant in her last talking head, she was wearing leopard print and she looked very full in the tummy, that and Aaron was setting up a little trailer like a Burly, I had one for the back of my bike, (I put the kids in it and would ride on the bike trail).

I hope she’s not pregnant cause in that particular talking heads I thought she seemed a little out of her mind...😳

[TurtlePower]

6 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Again at what point did she have a opportunity to be herself? was it when they were all screaming at her that she was Denise wildthings Richard's  and she should let them talk about fucking around a special needs 7yo and her 14/15 yo sisters and their underage friends? or was it when they were screeching at her that she was mommy shamming them because she wouldn't let them talk about fucking around a special needs 7yo and her 14/15 yo sisters and their underage friends at a different gathering? or how about when they were screeching at her that she fucked Denise richards so they should have been allowed to talk about fucking around a special needs 7yo and her 14/15 yo sisters and their underage friends? or how about when the inferred that her underage daughters were prob sluts already because how could they not be look at their parents?  At no point was she not being attacked when she was around them and they tried everything to make her the bad guy when it was them that was in the wrong

The other ladies probably should have left the threesome talk alone after Denise requested they shut up about it. BUT, that does not change the way Denise has turned about this season. Something happened that she felt she needed to portray herself as less "wild". I suspect she was close with Brandi before she decided to change how she was perceived and didn't want to be associated with a person like Brandi (an investigator's hunch based on behavior). 

Willing to bet that if Denise didn't have a contract, she wouldn't have filmed this season. Something went down in her life that she felt she had to "fix" her image (when there was nothing wrong with it in the first place). 

 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

7 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Point one ... it doesnt matter what her underage daughter said if it was ok or NOT she is still the parent of that child and has every right to say what is and isnt acceptable around that child until she is 18.....

 

Point 2... Denise's daughters know about 3somes they prob already have done some i mean look at their parents (this was said about someones UNDERAGE children and the other ladies agreed to it) ....... who was bad mouthing who? they all talked shit about denise before they even knew she said anything bad about them so that is a hypocritical point

You're shifting the argument. I agree with you, it is absolutely okay for to say that she wanted to limit the conversation around her underage daughter. I've been consistent on that point. That doesn't, however, mean that she gets to lie in characterizing how her daughter saw the conversation. She insinuated that her daughter was harmed by the conversation; we saw footage that suggests otherwise. I know it is safer ground to claim she was wronged by their unwillingness to respect her wishes, because she was totally in the right on that, in my opinion. But that is a separate issue as to whether or not she can just mischaracterize the alleged harm done to her daughter and not be called out on it. 

As for your second point, that's just pure whataboutism. Yes, the other ladies said some stupid things about Denise's daughters. Yes, it's totally fine to criticize them for that. That still has ZERO to do with her claims that Sami was upset by the talk. She wasn't. Denise claimed she was and unfortunately, they had footage that showed otherwise. Whether or not she was "mom-shaming" them, she did incorrectly characterize her daughters feeling. And I don't know how you get around that.

It fits a pattern with her. I get that you like her, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean that pattern doesn't still exist. 

[Keywestclubkid]

Just now, eleanorofaquitaine said:

You're shifting the argument. I agree with you, it is absolutely okay for to say that she wanted to limit the conversation around her underage daughter. I've been consistent on that point. That doesn't, however, mean that she gets to lie in characterizing how her daughter saw the conversation. She insinuated that her daughter was harmed by the conversation; we saw footage that suggests otherwise. I know it is safer ground to claim she was wronged by their unwillingness to respect her wishes, because she was totally in the right on that, in my opinion. But that is a separate issue as to whether or not she can just mischaracterize the alleged harm done to her daughter and not be called out on it. 

As for your second point, that's just pure whataboutism. Yes, the other ladies said some stupid things about Denise's daughters. Yes, it's totally fine to criticize them for that. That still has ZERO to do with her claims that Sami was upset by the talk. She wasn't. Denise claimed she was and unfortunately, they had footage that showed otherwise. Whether or not she was "mom-shaming" them, she did incorrectly characterize her daughters feeling. And I don't know how you get around that.

It fits a pattern with her. I get that you like her, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean that pattern doesn't still exist. 

The argument isnt shifted its pointing out the holes in the whole thing ....it doesn't matter what a 14/15yo says is or isnt ok because she isnt the parent ..... the parent until that child is 18 what the parent says goes ..... and Erika and the girls were shit talking Denise from the 2nd episode on so how dare she talk shit about the girls she deserves this doesn't hold water either talking about someones underage daughters being sluts just cause its beyond reprehensible and NO adult should be doing that its nasty its vicious and its just a bad look 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Just now, Keywestclubkid said:

The argument isnt shifted its pointing out the holes in the whole thing ....it doesn't matter what a 14/15yo says is or isnt ok because she isnt the parent ..... the parent until that child is 18 what the parent says goes ..... and Erika and the girls were shit talking Denise from the 2nd episode on so how dare she talk shit about the girls she deserves this doesn't hold water either talking about someones underage daughters being sluts just cause its beyond reprehensible and NO adult should be doing that its nasty its vicious and its just a bad look 

It really isn't. Two (or even three) things can all actually be wrong at the same time. It was wrong for the other women to not shut up once Denise requested they do so. It was wrong of Erika to make excuses by insinuating things about Sami. It was also wrong for Denise to claim that Sami was upset by the conversation when she wasn't. Truly, Denise Richards is not a saint and not all of her actions can be excused just because the other women have also acted badly. 

[Keywestclubkid]

1 minute ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

It really isn't. Two (or even three) things can all actually be wrong at the same time. It was wrong for the other women to not shut up once Denise requested they do so. It was wrong of Erika to make excuses by insinuating things about Sami. It was also wrong for Denise to claim that Sami was upset by the conversation when she wasn't. Truly, Denise Richards is not a saint and not all of her actions can be excused just because the other women have also acted badly. 

I am in no way saying that Denise is a saint in this .... I am simply stating that has their Parent saying that its ok to talk about adult things because the child said it was ok ISNT ok ......everything Denise was shown doing on this show was in direct relation to actions the other "ladies" were doing ... production and Kyle kept trying to set up this confrontation with Brandi and Denise being smart avoided it because she knew what it was and what the show wanted and she wasn't going to allow that to happen she isnt Rinna she doesn't sell herself for airtime like that ....

[eleanorofaquitaine]

2 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I am in no way saying that Denise is a saint in this .... I am simply stating that has their Parent saying that its ok to talk about adult things because the child said it was ok ISNT ok ......everything Denise was shown doing on this show was in direct relation to actions the other "ladies" were doing ... production and Kyle kept trying to set up this confrontation with Brandi and Denise being smart avoided it because she knew what it was and what the show wanted and she wasn't going to allow that to happen she isnt Rinna she doesn't sell herself for airtime like that ....

Right. I'm certainly not arguing that just because Sami said she thought it was funny, therefore it was okay.  Sami is a child. Nevertheless, that STILL doesn't mean that Denise gets to lie about how Sami felt, especially if that lie is on camera and provable.

Denise was 100% within her rights to say, "I was offended by the fact that you guys didn't respect my wishes. It's disrespectful." I agreed with her on that. But she took it a step further and shaded the truth when she said that Sami was upset. And because she did that - just like she shaded the truth about whether or not she's badmouthed Erika and Teddi behind their backs and she shaded the truth about whether or not she has texts from Brandi and she shaded the truth about whether or not she was experiencing a "family emergency" - well, because she seems to have a repeated pattern of shading the truth, it's not unreasonable to conclude that she's shady. 

[Keywestclubkid]

7 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Right. I'm certainly not arguing that just because Sami said she thought it was funny, therefore it was okay.  Sami is a child. Nevertheless, that STILL doesn't mean that Denise gets to lie about how Sami felt, especially if that lie is on camera and provable.

Denise was 100% within her rights to say, "I was offended by the fact that you guys didn't respect my wishes. It's disrespectful." I agreed with her on that. But she took it a step further and shaded the truth when she said that Sami was upset. And because she did that - just like she shaded the truth about whether or not she's badmouthed Erika and Teddi behind their backs and she shaded the truth about whether or not she has texts from Brandi and she shaded the truth about whether or not she was experiencing a "family emergency" - well, because she seems to have a repeated pattern of shading the truth, it's not unreasonable to conclude that she's shady. 

This is a good debate .... 🙂 What was Denise supposed to say hey you sneaky ass bitches Brandi texted me saying she was going to this party that she wasnt invited to by the host in hopes to start a fight with me so I see you and what you are trying to do? She wasn't gonna give production a heads up cause they obvi didn't give a shit about giving her one ...I mean production had to know Brandi was coming to mic her up and get the camera ready to film her walking in ... they wanted a ambush with Denise and she was smart enough to deny them that....

Edited August 27, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[Ohiopirate02]

13 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Right. I'm certainly not arguing that just because Sami said she thought it was funny, therefore it was okay.  Sami is a child. Nevertheless, that STILL doesn't mean that Denise gets to lie about how Sami felt, especially if that lie is on camera and provable.

Denise was 100% within her rights to say, "I was offended by the fact that you guys didn't respect my wishes. It's disrespectful." I agreed with her on that. But she took it a step further and shaded the truth when she said that Sami was upset. And because she did that - just like she shaded the truth about whether or not she's badmouthed Erika and Teddi behind their backs and she shaded the truth about whether or not she has texts from Brandi and she shaded the truth about whether or not she was experiencing a "family emergency" - well, because she seems to have a repeated pattern of shading the truth, it's not unreasonable to conclude that she's shady. 

I fail to see how Denise is in any way more shady than the rest of the ladies.  All** of them pick and choose what they want shown on camera, but for some reason this season Denise is the one who must "mention it all" and "own it."  All** of them want to control the narrative, but it is only an issue when Denise is doing it.  All** of them trash talk the other ladies behind their backs, but again only Denise is expected to own up to it.  The double standard the ladies and production showed this season just flat out sucked.  This season was not enjoyable.

 

**Well, except for Teddi.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

14 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

This is a good debate .... 🙂 What was Denise supposed to say hey you sneaky ass bitches Brandi texted me saying she was going to this party that she wasnt invited to by the host in hopes to start a fight with me so I see you and what you are trying to do? She wasn't gonna give production a heads up cause they obvi didn't give a shit about giving her one ...I mean production had to know Brandi was coming to mic her up and get the camera ready to film her walking in ... they wanted a ambush with Denise and she was smart enough to deny them that....

Yes, she was. I don't see what the problem is in saying, "Brandi texted me to say she'll be there and I don't want to be a part of that drama, so I'm not coming."  You think she didn't do that because she didn't want to give production the head's up that she knew. That's probably part of it but I think she didn't say anything to Garcelle - and shut off her phone - because she realized that if she told Garcelle that Brandi texted her, that means that she was admitting to having a texting relationship with Brandi. And thus, her argument that she barely knew Brandi was kind of shot to hell. 

But in the end, claiming "family emergency" and then having Aaron post an old picture of the hernias, or whatever it was, was absolutely a premediated act on their part to deceive her coworkers and the public. Instead of saying, "yes, I know Brandi well enough to text with her and she texted me to say she was going to be there, and I want zero to do with an on-camera confrontation," we got an elaborate deception scheme.

She's shady.

Now I suspect some of her shadiness comes from the fact that she's extremely conflict-avoidant. I do think she's a people pleaser who really hates conflict. But she should have thought about that before coming on a show that is ALL ABOUT CONFLICT. And her efforts to avoid conflict makes her seem really super shady in some parts of her life, in my opinion. 

Quote

 

I fail to see how Denise is in any way more shady than the rest of the ladies.  All** of them pick and choose what they want shown on camera, but for some reason this season Denise is the one who must "mention it all" and "own it."  All** of them want to control the narrative, but it is only an issue when Denise is doing it.  All** of them trash talk the other ladies behind their backs, but again only Denise is expected to own up to it.  The double standard the ladies and production showed this season just flat out sucked.  This season was not enjoyable.

**Well, except for Teddi.

 

Again, this is just whataboutism that actually isn't a defense of Denise. Saying "well, they do it, too!" doesn't somehow mean she isn't shady. It just means that they are all shady. 

I've never denied that most of these women are trying to control the narratives about them. Of course they are. Some of them are better at it than others.  Some of them ARE better are letting production into some dark area of their lives, so that they have control over other areas. Like it or not, Kyle has actually let production seem some difficult things about her relationships with Kim. Rinna is the same with her daughters. Again, that doesn't mean we are seeing EVERYTHING about their lives. But because they have let production in in some places, they have more control over other places. IMO, Denise only wanted the good parts shown. And then when she lost even slight control of the narrative, she decided her best course of action was shadiness.  IMO, that was the wrong choice but YMMV. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by eleanorofaquitaine

[MaggieG]

Call me crazy but I believe that Dorit didn't know Brandi was coming. Garcelle definitely didn't know. Kyle 100% knew Brandi would be there. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

4 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

Call me crazy but I believe that Dorit didn't know Brandi was coming. Garcelle definitely didn't know. Kyle 100% knew Brandi would be there. 

I agree with this, I think Dorit was genuinely surprised. 

[Pondlass1]

I guess Sutton’s gone next season, which is a shame. I kinda like her and her hideous outfits.  If nasty Brandi is a replacement  cast member then I’m out. Ugh! 🤮

Conversations are so weird on this franchise. They all talk around an issue.  Last year puppygate dragged on for a whole season but no one outright asked Dorit why she didn’t return the puppy as stated in the contract. It all got sidetracked and totally stupid with LVP stomping off in a huff.

Same with this season.  Denise just has to say - it’s none of your fucking business, plus we all talk shit about each other... just watch the talking heads. And that would be that. But no, let’s  drag this out with lots of pearl clutching and histrionics thrown in.

I watch for silly outfits, silly drama and the crazy antics of airheaded rich folk. Not production induced mountains made out of molehills, especially when it’s dragged on from one episode to the next and all they yap about.

Take a leaf from the NY housewives book... drink, fight, scream, spit, gesticulate, — next morning move on.

 

[Keywestclubkid]

3 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

,

Now I suspect some of her shadiness comes from the fact that she's extremely conflict-avoidant. I do think she's a people pleaser who really hates conflict. But she should have thought about that before coming on a show that is ALL ABOUT CONFLICT. And her efforts to avoid conflict makes her seem really super shady in some parts of her life, in my opinion. 

There is conflict and then there is the dog pile gang up that the ladies and production did .... its two separate things conflict is not beating a dead horse over and over and over and over every time you see someone and production telling you to keep going  ..... that's a premeditated  attack .... and when one attack didn't work to bring in someone not even on the cast and in no way connected to the fight in the first place to drum up drama isnt natural conflict that is a all out take down assault... from jump they were gunning for Denise and she shut it down as best she could and when she saw the links that these people will go through to keep it going just said fuck it I am not showing up ... Any smart adult would have done the same 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

5 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

There is conflict and then there is the dog pile gang up that the ladies and production did .... its two separate things conflict is not beating a dead horse over and over and over and over every time you see someone and production telling you to keep going  ..... that's a premeditated  attack .... and when one attack didn't work to bring in someone not even on the cast and in no way connected to the fight in the first place to drum up drama isnt natural conflict that is a all out take down assault... from jump they were gunning for Denise and she shut it down as best she could and when she saw the links that these people will go through to keep it going just said fuck it I am not showing up ... Any smart adult would have done the same 

Again, you are shifting the argument. I agree, not showing up was fine. I don't have any problem with her not showing up. But once again, if she had just been forthright about not showing up, rather than ghosting Garcelle then claiming a family emergency then basically trying to outright deceive everyone by posting an old pic of a medical operation.  

I do agree with you that they tend to pile-on. But that's again, not anything new to this particular franchise. Denise clearly doesn't like confrontation. So maybe don't be on a show where people have been piling on forever.

A lot of Denise's problems here would go away if she wasn't trying so hard to avoid conflict. At this point, the well is probably poisoned but her solutions to not dealing with conflict is to dissemble, and IMO, that makes her hard to defend. 

[Keywestclubkid]

9 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Again, you are shifting the argument. I agree, not showing up was fine. I don't have any problem with her not showing up. But once again, if she had just been forthright about not showing up, rather than ghosting Garcelle then claiming a family emergency then basically trying to outright deceive everyone by posting an old pic of a medical operation.  

I do agree with you that they tend to pile-on. But that's again, not anything new to this particular franchise. Denise clearly doesn't like confrontation. So maybe don't be on a show where people have been piling on forever.

A lot of Denise's problems here would go away if she wasn't trying so hard to avoid conflict. At this point, the well is probably poisoned but her solutions to not dealing with conflict is to dissemble, and IMO, that makes her hard to defend. 

the pile on is new in the sense that until last season they didn't do it .. yes they had fights but it wasn't every girl against one and it didn't seem to last ALL season ......Last season was the first time that it seemed that it was everyone vs Lisa .....and this housewives show has been the only one that does that so no Denise in that sense shouldn't have expect it because its not normal ...The gang up got old fast and dragged on for no other reason then NOTHING else seemed to be going on and they had no backup plan and thought we all would Hate who they wanted us to by manipulating things the way they did

 

And Garcelle must have understood because she is #TeamDenise even after everything that aired and prob understood that giving her the heads up would have tipped off production and Production being super shady in trying to get her to turn on Denise was just another nail in the fact that this show had it out for Denise since jump .....

Edited August 27, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[nexxie]

Wonder if Bravo fired Dorinda because they didn’t want another cease and desist letter. Someone could make a legal case about Bravo’s part in encouraging bullying - the cast probably agreed to drink in their contracts, but not to being bullied.

Edited August 27, 2020 by nexxie