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S02.E10: The End of Something

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On 8/15/2020 at 9:40 PM, AnimeMania said:

I hated that Klaus wouldn't even help Allison and Ray roll up the dead body in the rug. He just sat on the couch and watched.

See and I thought it was hilarious bc it's just so Klaus

On 8/15/2020 at 11:19 PM, phoenics said:

Probably because when Five has killed - it's always part of a plan to stop the Apocalypse.  There is a difference between a hired assassin who is killing solely to stop an apocalypse and Vanya's killing (I didn't mind her taking out the agents at the Farm or the police or FBI).  I think we're supposed to think Five is kind of an asshole - but he's a necessary one to stop the end of the world.  He never comes off as self-centered or selfish - his sole focus for 2 seasons has been averting the end of the world.

But even Five doesn't get enough of a storyline for us to even fully understand him - he's like a point guard on the show - he facilitates the stories of the other characters but we never really learn much about him.

Vanya, unfortunately, is the reason for the apocalypse.

It's like the writers make her sociopathic, but they want us to like her and empathize with her, so they create plot armor for her that no other character gets to excuse her actions and let her off without actual redemption.  I just have a hard time seeing Vanya as anything more than a mass shooting archetype.  

To be fair, none of the characters are ever really held to any kind of real good/bad standard - everyone kills, etc.. I think the only one who actively attempts to turn away from her powers because she recognizes they are inherently not good is Allison.

 

See I don't think Five was told the killings he was assigned were to stop the apocalypse, I thought he was merely told they were to maintain the timeline. The whole reason he skipped out on his contract with the Commission and went back was to avert the apocalypse.

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Yeah, killings for the Commission were the opposite of averting the Apocalypse. The Commission was preserving the timeline, including the Apocalypse. But it was still killing on assignment for a perceived greater good rather than for personal cruelty or indifference.

I'm not sure when she would have had the opportunity to play an instrument while living on the farm, but that doesn't bother me much.

If the writers cared, it's trivial to write a reason for a violin to be laying around the farm. Sissy could have been a fiddler and played to calm Harlan instead of using records. Heck, Carl could have been a fiddler and had some depth to him. Then part of why they let Vanya stay and be the nanny is because her violin playing calms Harlan. Now that I'm writing it out, that would make the whole Vanya/Harlan bond make more sense. I didn't get a good sense of why Vanya would bond with Harlan given that nothing last season hinted at patience, aptitude, or experience working with a non-verbal child prone to meltdowns. 

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9 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

But it was still killing on assignment for a perceived greater good rather than for personal cruelty or indifference.

Cool motive, still murder lol.

I thought they did a decent job of 'redeeming' Vanya. It wasn't this big thing, it was subtle. And, at the end of the day, her siblings know the reasons for why she did what she did and they empathize with them.

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13 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

Yeah, killings for the Commission were the opposite of averting the Apocalypse. The Commission was preserving the timeline, including the Apocalypse. But it was still killing on assignment for a perceived greater good rather than for personal cruelty or indifference.

Five's goal was to get back and, save his family/stop the apocalypse but all those people he killed were simply a means to an end. He didn't care about killing JFK anymore than he cared about killing the Board or Lila's parents. Also, saying that killing a whole bunch of people (enough to become a legend) was a small price to pay for preventing Apocalypse is one of those means doesn't justify the end...especially when he failed to stop the Apocalypse and in fact brought it back to 1963 with his family.

It's kind of amazing to me that Five gets a pass for years of Cold Blooded Murder for Hire meanwhile Vanya is the most evil of evils because she flipped out after years of mental and emotional abuse by her family (including being drugged by her father). 

Especially when Vanya actually feels guilty for what she's done while Five doesn't give a shit.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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I think both Five and Vanya are in the same boat. Difference is that the writers are not backpedaling on Five's motivations (the fans maybe). 

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On 8/18/2020 at 9:13 PM, Chaos Theory said:

I am curious what kind of "punishment"  Vanya deserves?   Should her siblings ignore her like they did all her life?  Lock her in the the secret room forever....like they did in season 1?  Make her get down on her knees and beg their forgiveness for eternity?  Or the writers have only bad things happen to her and none of her siblings be there and laugh at her while the world comes crashing down around her.

 

Ha ha ha.  This is what you deserve.   

 

It all seems kinda petty.  

And while we are at it, if she has to do penance for an apocalypse that ultimately didn't happen, what is their punishment for the massive amount of collateral damage caused in the second apocalypse that never happened? 

 

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On 8/18/2020 at 10:17 PM, CailynA said:
On 8/15/2020 at 10:40 PM, AnimeMania said:

I hated that Klaus wouldn't even help Allison and Ray roll up the dead body in the rug. He just sat on the couch and watched.

See and I thought it was hilarious bc it's just so Klaus

But Klaus has access to a monster that could have picked that dead body up with one tentacle and rolled it into the rug with the other, even though Klaus is trying to keep Ben hidden. It was Klaus' idea he could have shown them how it's done in about 5 seconds. EasyPeasy!

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On 8/18/2020 at 9:24 PM, Zuleikha said:

If the writers cared, it's trivial to write a reason for a violin to be laying around the farm. Sissy could have been a fiddler and played to calm Harlan instead of using records. Heck, Carl could have been a fiddler and had some depth to him. Then part of why they let Vanya stay and be the nanny is because her violin playing calms Harlan. Now that I'm writing it out, that would make the whole Vanya/Harlan bond make more sense. I didn't get a good sense of why Vanya would bond with Harlan given that nothing last season hinted at patience, aptitude, or experience working with a non-verbal child prone to meltdowns. 

Eh, if there had been a violin/fiddle at the farm I would have called contrivance. What percentage of American households have one? Vanya loves music in general, and I liked that she appreciated Harlan’s connection to his phonograph.

I think Vanya’s caring for Harlan shows how much she is not a sociopath. We have no idea how much patience she would have demonstrated in her childhood if she hadn’t been put down and isolated from caring and contact by her entire family. She was, actually, very generous, patient, and empathetic when teaching Leonard violin. Her behavior with Harlan was all of her good qualities without the burden of pain she used to carry. 

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So, all in all, I think this season really fixed the family dynamics, and turned the Hargreeves kids into the tight-knit unit that Reginald envisioned them to be. There was some genuine healing done by all of them, particularly Vanya and Klaus (though he's not really showing it). And wow, that shot of Vanya and Diego leaning against one another was so fulfilling.

So I guess it's a shame that Reginald now has better versions of them. The Sparrow Academy? Evil, scarred Ben? I bet Luther has a goatee.

Man, Reginald is an arsehole. Using Ben's funeral as a joint learning exercise and admonishment of his kids for their failure.

How much do I love that Klaus was the first one to go after Vanya, even if he did try to make light of it? And that all the others were right behind him. Vanya genuinely didn't expect it, despite being in the most healthy mental place she's ever been in.

The set piece with all the operatives was pretty amazing. Diego covering for Five, then Vanya showing that there honestly might be no limit to her power and just ending it. Then Lila showing that she's a mimic. Makes so much sense, when you think about it - she could teleport when she was around Five, she had heightened agility around Diego, now she's able to reproduce Vanya's powers, then Luther's. And Allison's for good measure.

It was pretty obvious that she was one of the special kids, and at least Lila wasn't too stubborn to listen and believe what they told her. Quite the fake-out with the Handler killing them all, then the final Swede turning up. The show did a good job of making me forget all about him. But bringing it back to Reginald's advice to Five about controlling his time travel abilities was cool.

Hopefully we see Lila again in season three, and she does get to join the family.

Klaus's "who the hell was that guy?" about the Swede was hilarious. With everything that's happened, it's easy to forget that the characters have been relatively isolated from one another's storylines.

Finally - I hope the Swede adopts the cult's way of life rather than, y'know, killing them all.

 

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Vanya was actually very empathetic. I’m rewatching season 1, and she is the one trying to help the teens when yelled at, at she left a light on for five after he disappeared. 
it was established in season one that Vanya manipulates sound waves to power up, has she gotten past that?  Also, Diego was the most bitter about the book she wrote and their rankings. So nice to see he’s over that. 

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I liked this season better than the first. I feel like the siblings were together more this season than last. Which is what I love most about the show. When they are separated I get bored.

I am glad that Ray survived. I will miss him though.

Kate Walsh seemed to have a ball with this role. She was great. Her and Five were the standouts. 

I dont know how I feel about Lila being another sibling. Though I did roll my eyes at Diego saying he loved her.

Ben! I dont know what Sparrow Academy means but I am glad to not see the end of him. 

Luther was much more tolerable this season. He plays the comedic part way better than the angsty loner. 

Diego and Five are still my favorite siblings. 

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On 8/18/2020 at 10:17 PM, CailynA said:

See and I thought it was hilarious bc it's just so Klaus

See I don't think Five was told the killings he was assigned were to stop the apocalypse, I thought he was merely told they were to maintain the timeline. The whole reason he skipped out on his contract with the Commission and went back was to avert the apocalypse.

I said it was part of his plan to stop the apocalypse - not that the killings themselves were for that.  He joined up with the commission to gain access to their tech and science so he could get back to avert the apocalypse. I guess I could have made that clearer.

 

Edited by phoenics
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1 hour ago, backhometome said:

I dont know how I feel about Lila being another sibling. Though I did roll my eyes at Diego saying he loved her.

Sometime after I finished S2, I got to thinking about S1. Diego got over Patch's death really quick to fall in love with Lila in 3 months. I almost give Allison a pass for her daughter, she was there the longest and, probably gave up going back, plus by that point her daughter was dead in the apocalypse.

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Season one rewatch,, episode 5,  When The Handler is recruiting five and says the apocalypse is supposed to happen, five says, "the end of everything?"  The Handler says, "not the end of everything.....the end of something."  Hmmmm

 

 

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On 8/19/2020 at 1:13 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Five's goal was to get back and, save his family/stop the apocalypse but all those people he killed were simply a means to an end. He didn't care about killing JFK anymore than he cared about killing the Board or Lila's parents. Also, saying that killing a whole bunch of people (enough to become a legend) was a small price to pay for preventing Apocalypse is one of those means doesn't justify the end...especially when he failed to stop the Apocalypse and in fact brought it back to 1963 with his family.

It's kind of amazing to me that Five gets a pass for years of Cold Blooded Murder for Hire meanwhile Vanya is the most evil of evils because she flipped out after years of mental and emotional abuse by her family (including being drugged by her father). 

Especially when Vanya actually feels guilty for what she's done while Five doesn't give a shit.

There are gender expectations in play a bit here I think. Women are supposed to be gentle, peacemaking caregivers and historically have been punished for acting against those expectations. (Which is another reason her ending up at a 60's Stepford farm is so perfect.) I suspect some of that is in play here even if not deliberately. Five is a man so killing and fighting is expected.

There is also a big difference in how they kill. Five acts deliberately and coldly and in a way we have conditioned to accept by media. We accept Five's I did what I had to do explanation because we have heard it so many times before. With Vanya her actions are much more passive and often accidental. Which makes her much more terrifying since who knows what will set her off. Her powers are tied to her emotions and trauma and unpacking that is complicated. Plus women's emotions are so often portrayed as a terrible mystery particularly in scifi and horror. So while Five and Vanya are both monsters Five is a much more familiar one (and often a type that is portrayed as a hero) so people are much more accepting of Five's monstrous acts.

I also think people just have different definitions of justice and redemption. Personally I think Vanya was well past the point of not being mentally capable of being responsible for her actions. She was essentially having a psychotic break, which doesn't make her a psychopath just human with a lot of trauma. (One of the weird effects of Sociopaths being trendy is people are quick to label anyone not completely normal as a sociopath before that they were bi-polar) A lot of Americans often seem to have this need for punishment that is probably the Puritan's fault somehow. I remember when a schizophrenic beheaded someone on a Greyhound bus a few hundred kliks from here were a lot of stories from the US that were absolutely appalled that the man wasn't jailed for life. To me (and most Canadian's) locking up someone with a treatable illness seems like a waste of time and money. I feel like Vanya is a similar case any punishment would have just been piling on to an already plot heavy and traumatized character.

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On 8/2/2020 at 6:49 PM, ICantDoThatDave said:

[..] Plot Armor  [..] The 3 brothers can't hit people fleeing down a narrow hallway?  Check.  

That (in hindsight) was Lila using Diego's bending power to move the bullets.

(At least, that's my take, now we know what she could do all along)

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1 hour ago, Captain Stable said:

That (in hindsight) was Lila using Diego's bending power to move the bullets.

(At least, that's my take, now we know what she could do all along)

Oh, now I want to go back and watch that episode to see if there are clues.

This also makes me wonder if the reason Diego's knives missed Daddy Hargreeves is because Diego really doesn't want to/can't bring himself to kill Daddy Dearest.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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On 8/2/2020 at 9:03 AM, saoirse said:

It does seem like meeting Sir Reggie is what changed the path, but was there something else after that point that made Sir Reggie determine that change? 

I assumed Harlan living/having whatever he got from Vanya is what changed the timeline, not the meeting Reggie (although I suppose it could be both). Because A) when the video at the commision was playing in the command center room, right before The Handler stabbed that dude who confirmed he hadn't told anyone else yet, the screen was showing Harlan bouncing the bullets back at Carl. That was literally shown as being THE megadisruption to the timeline. Whether it's the Carl dying or the Harlan living or the Harlan-having-powers, we don't know, but that was the moment. B) Vanya and Five's earlier discussion about "no one is insignificant". Ergo Harlan (and Sissy?) are super significant.

On 8/4/2020 at 6:57 PM, AnimeMania said:

Someone mentioned earlier a limit to the number of jumps that "No. 5" can perform, but when he was fighting himself, I am sure he jumped way more times than anyone would have expected. 

I don't think it's a fixed number; it's a skill/energy thing. In the parking lot when he couldn't do it didn't Five say something like "too tired" or "out of juice"?

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This also makes me wonder if the reason Diego's knives missed Daddy Hargreeves is because Diego really doesn't want to/can't bring himself to kill Daddy Dearest.

I always assumed that's what we were supposed to think. It was showing Diego didn't actually want to hit Hargreeves. Now that we know about Lila, I think she's responsible for him missing in that earlier fight with the Swedish brothers.

 So while Five and Vanya are both monsters Five is a much more familiar one (and often a type that is portrayed as a hero) so people are much more accepting of Five's monstrous acts.

For me, it's as simple as this: I see Five as a carefully controlled monster, intentionally using his monstrousness for what he and I both see as the greater good of stopping an apocalypse. I think the show also sees him this way. Therefore, I feel harmoniousness about it all.

By contrast, I think the show sees Vanya as a traumatized woobie who is not responsible for the harm that she's done. I do not see Vanya this way at all. Therefore, I feel irritation every time the show pushes this POV on me. In addition, I feel confusion about the character of Vanya because I don't know who the show thinks she is or why she behaved as she did last season compared to this season. 

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Just finished the season, and I really enjoyed it overall.  I loved the overall mystery of trying to figure out what caused the new apocalypse, and then realising it was because Kennedy did NOT get killed because of Vanya going nuts at the FBI building. 

Loved the interactions between the siblings.

So what happens to the hundreds of dead bodies at Sissy's farm?  Sissy leaves town and the cops are aware of the Hargreeve siblings, who have disappeared.

My favourite character is Allison.  She's got a great and interesting power and I loved how she fully embraced a "normal" life in 1962 and refrained from using her power even when it would have been so easy to use it to advance the cause she believed in.  Loved that she didn't insist that Ray go with her back to 2019 and that she accepted it, unlike Vanya who once again has damaged the timeline by giving Harlan powers.   I liked how the plot allowed Allison to ditch the blonde hair extensions and coloured contacts and allowed her to be who she really is.   I also think she has the best costume by far... love that cape thing she wears.

19 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I think the show sees Vanya as a traumatized woobie who is not responsible for the harm that she's done. I do not see Vanya this way at all. Therefore, I feel irritation every time the show pushes this POV on me. In addition, I feel confusion about the character of Vanya because I don't know who the show thinks she is or why she behaved as she did last season compared to this season. 

I feel the same way about her.  She is by far my least favourite character.  I get that Ellen Page is arguably the show's biggest "name", but in an ensemble show, why does everything have to revolve around her?  I agree that she seems like she has gone in a completely different direction this year.  Last year, she was this meek and quiet and unassuming violin player, just trying to make her way up in the orchestra.  She meets this man that she was very much interested in.  This season, it seems like someone on the writing staff said "Ellen Page is gay, so now we are making Vanya gay.  We will also give her amnesia so we can basically write a whole new character." 

I totally don't buy the "poor Vanya" crap the show is pushing... yes she is out of control but she killed those people at the FBI building and then she killed hundreds of people at the farm and doesn't even seem horrified about it.  Is she aware of what she is doing when she is powered up?  It's almost like the show suggests that she is in some kind of trance and doesn't know what she is doing, she is just reacting instinctively to protect herself and those she cares about.  I agree with Luther, she's dangerous and needs help to learn how to control her powers.

On 8/3/2020 at 11:21 AM, blueray said:

I also am hoping that's it for the handler. I feel like she is also getting kind of old and the show needs a new villain. Which probably will be there next season.

I tired of her as well, especially when she started going into the crazy costumes and hair.  I feel like every actress who plays an over-the-top character with weird wardrobe and makeup and hair is just channelling their inner Effie Trinket and doing their best to out-Effie the original.  It gets very old very fast.

I would think that now the Commission is in the hands of Herb, the Commission won't be the villain anymore.  The villain seems set to be Reggie.  Really curious to see Ben and his team.   

 

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On 8/24/2020 at 10:57 PM, Zuleikha said:

By contrast, I think the show sees Vanya as a traumatized woobie who is not responsible for the harm that she's done. I do not see Vanya this way at all. Therefore, I feel irritation every time the show pushes this POV on me. In addition, I feel confusion about the character of Vanya because I don't know who the show thinks she is or why she behaved as she did last season compared to this season. 

I think the show is fairly straightforward in how it presents Vanya - she's an emotionally traumatised, introverted woman who suffered a terrible childhood with a cold, detached father who seemingly never had anything nice to say or ever showed that he cared about her. Same as the others. Difference is, her power levels are significantly higher and she's completely untrained.

This season, she forgot all of that trauma and all the impediments that Reginald put on her self-worth and her control of her powers, so it came naturally to her. Not only that, but we saw that her introverted nature was at least partially brought on by feeling like an outcast in her own family. Because we see Vanya in season two and she's happier, more confident and far more outgoing. Is that a realistic depiction of amnesia? Probably not. But not many people get amnesia because they lost control of the world-endingly powerful, soundwave-manipulating abilities on top of the shock of realising their entire life has been a lie, compounded by a gunshot going off inches from their ear. 

As for not being responsible for the harm she did... to who? Leonard? He deserved death far more than all those mooks we saw Five kill in the first episode of the show. Pogo? He was complicit in the lies that she had been told her entire life. The world? We have no idea what her intentions even were, before the rest of the Academy tried to attack her, and the shock of Allison firing the gun by her head made her lose control. The FBI agents who tortured her until she lost control of her powers again? Or are we still talking about the random nannies from that montage? Kids are capable of casual cruelty that most adults would be shocked by, because they can't understand the consequences of their actions (I would suggest they're even more likely to indulge in it when they've been shown no love by their parents). There's nothing to suggest Vanya knew what she was doing when she lashed out, and the way she lashed out was as natural to her as a toddler kicking and screaming.

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On 8/25/2020 at 1:25 PM, blackwing said:

I liked how the plot allowed Allison to ditch the blonde hair extensions and coloured contacts and allowed her to be who she really is.   

Well, I don't think that Allison had much of a choice in that matter storywise.  She was dumped in an era where Black skin was enough to stand out in the crowd, never mind the leather outfit and outrageous hair.   It was made worse upon her being separated from the other siblings while recovering from Vanya slashing her throat.  I can't imagine being in an unfamiliar place totally alone and unable to speak.

 

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I think the show is fairly straightforward in how it presents Vanya - she's an emotionally traumatised, introverted woman who suffered a terrible childhood with a cold, detached father who seemingly never had anything nice to say or ever showed that he cared about her. Same as the others. Difference is, her power levels are significantly higher and she's completely untrained.

Here's the thing; Reginald Hargreeves sucked at training the siblings as a team.  None of them were trained properly in using their powers or relating to each other in a healthy way.  If I were to acquire a group of super-powered children, I would first find out how to get the children to work together and how their powers could be utilized together in any given scenario.  That is probably why Ben died in combat, as it were.  I would love to see how our Ben died and what it now means to Ben and the Sparrows.  Meeting with their father 20 years before they even came into play of course stomped on those butterflies; I wonder if Reginald used a different process to train the Sparrows or will they be as fucked up as the Umbrellas?   I also wonder how he came to change the name? I can't wait until Season 3!

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16 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

The world? We have no idea what her intentions even were, before the rest of the Academy tried to attack her, and the shock of Allison firing the gun by her head made her lose control.

Given that her powers are sound based I'm now thinking the gun shot probably amplified the blast on top of losing concentration.

 

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4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Given that her powers are sound based I'm now thinking the gun shot probably amplified the blast on top of losing concentration.

 

That makes a lot of sense, yeah. I think it's safe to say that Vanya wasn't planning to cause the apocalypse. In fact, her main focus was on performing the concert. She was obviously not fully in control of herself, and I figured it was a combination of her powers manifesting fully for the first time and the added on trauma of almost killing Allison, of learning that Leonard had been lying to and manipulating her.

So in season two we see that she's much better at controlling and directing her powers because she doesn't have the background of childhood trauma inhibiting her. When she does lose control it's because she's being tortured and being forced to remember her entire life.

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I enjoyed this season more then the first. But time travel turns my soft brain to mush.

I don't understand why Luther was chosen to be part of the academy, what power does he have? Before the mission he went on that ended badly and he was given that shot with ape? serum that turned him big he was just a normal guy right? Or what am I missing?  I agree with a post from another thread that said his size looked smaller in some scenes. In S1 he looked really big and broad but some scenes in S2 he looked normal size except for having large arm muscles.

I don't know how all those rows and rows of people standing in that field with guns didn't shoot each other. How is it the people in the back rows aren't shooting the people in the rows in front of them and so on, lol.

I thought Ben looked like a teenager in the last scene.

I don't know why 5 is still wearing that uniform but I hope he's at least changing his underwear.

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5 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

Before the mission he went on that ended badly and he was given that shot with ape? serum that turned him big he was just a normal guy right? Or what am I missing?

No, he was super strong, he launched the bank robber through the roof and out onto the ground. He also had speed and durability. He was probably in the Captain America/Black Panther league

Edited by Morrigan2575
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So-I had never heard of the umbrella academy until season 2 premiered-watched both seasons in about 5 days 

definitely one of the better Netflix shows-I think in some ways I might like it better than stranger things, but, I do have some gripes with it

for one, like with stranger things I cannot get behind all of the main characters-my top 3 in order were Five, Klaus, and Allison, I just did not care for Diego at all and Luther really annoyed when he tried to be the hero, but, I had a soft spot when he was a good big bro to Five though Five is older than him 😆

as for vanya, I really did not like her in season 1, I thought she was much better in season 2 and I hope she finally has a handle with her power because if in season 3 she causes another apocalypse I’ll be doing a serious eye roll at my tv screen, oh and I’ve seen other comments in here that she reminds them too much of dark Phoenix, definitely! 

i am also hoping the siblings get closer in season 3, I think the best scenes is when they are all together, and when we will finally see some of the other people with abilities? Lila while a surprise, again almost reminded me of an X-men character with her ability to mirror the powers 

I guess those sparrow academy kids might be some of the others? 
 



 

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On 8/29/2020 at 12:13 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

No, he was super strong, he launched the bank robber through the roof and out onto the ground. He also had speed and durability. He was probably in the Captain America/Black Panther league

Have we seen him use his speed or is that something from the comics? 

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26 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

Have we seen him use his speed or is that something from the comics? 

I shouldn't say Super Speed, not like Flash but, I thought he was the fastest of the kids during one of those training flashbacks. I guessed he was supposed to be the Captain America type, stronger, faster, more durable than a normal human but, not Hulk, Flash, Thor level 

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36 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I shouldn't say Super Speed, not like Flash but, I thought he was the fastest of the kids during one of those training flashbacks. I guessed he was supposed to be the Captain America type, stronger, faster, more durable than a normal human but, not Hulk, Flash, Thor level 

That makes sense! I think he was in front when they were racing up the stairs. 

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On 8/29/2020 at 3:16 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I thought so too, which is why I was really confused lol.

I’m not sure if they styled him that way to make him look younger or if it was just to distinguish from original Ben. He also had a mustache so I lean toward it being just to show he was a different Ben and him looking like a teen is just a byproduct of Asian genes making him look younger than he actually his. 

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I think Ben's more youthful look was due to his sparse facial hair and angsty-kid haircut. The actor just looked younger made up like that than he did as the ghost version of Ben.

It will be interesting to see whether Reginald adopted the same kids but treated them even more harshly because he didn't want them to turn out like the bunch of weirdos he met in 1963, or whether he adopted different kids.

He was impressed by Five and Vanya's powers, and you'd think it would be hard for him to pass those up at least.

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On 8/7/2020 at 12:42 PM, iMonrey said:

I'm not sure how he could avoid picking the same children, though. He would have no idea which is which when they are newborns. Their powers aren't apparent yet at that point.

 

On 8/29/2020 at 12:03 PM, foxfreakinmulder said:

I thought Ben looked like a teenager in the last scene.

 

On 9/1/2020 at 8:48 AM, festivus said:

I was confused too. First time watching I thought they landed earlier than 2019. Even in the portrait, Ben looks about 16 years old. 

I agree Ben is much younger in this reality. My theory, in answer to all three of these quotes: Dad can't directly choose which kids will be born or what powers they will have. But he CAN control when he sends his alien dust down. So if he sends it on a different day/year, he will get a different bunch of children. They may not be better, but they will be different because the mother will be a different person or the same person but on a different day with a different egg. Same as any two human parents -- each conception is unique.

And now we have a bunch of what (in the shadows) appears to be teens at the Sparrow Academy. So maybe Dad didn't stardust his kids into creation until 15 years later in this timeline. How he essentially got a dupe of Ben 15 years younger I don't have an answer for. Same mom, different alien sperm created an extremely similar but not exactly the same kid?

 

Or....if Ben isn't younger but the Sparrow Academy team is, we could be looking at a 2nd generation of kids led/trained by Ben?

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On 8/3/2020 at 8:45 PM, festivus said:

That's right, thanks. I know they're all supposed to be 30 but Ben just looks at least 10 years younger than that to me.

 

So does Vanya. I think Ellen Page could almost pull off being a pre teen if she wanted to.
And NewBen has a (faint) mustache.  So you know he's going to be a douche.

I think he's 16, so they either have to really age up Five and replace him with an older actor, or incorporate a time jump so the character catches up with the actor's age. 

Five said he didn't expect to be 13 when he reappeared in 2019. I could accept a handwave that time travel, at least he way Five does it, has unpredictable effects.

On 8/14/2020 at 9:24 PM, Enigma X said:

 I do believe if  (Vanya) was skinning live animals instead of killing nannies more would think there was something evil about her.

But the nannies were someone new each time and then they were replaced promptly. And she was not punished for killing them, although all the children were punished harshly from a very young age. She had no reason to think they were people any more than her dolls.

If the children were allowed dolls and toys.

On 8/17/2020 at 4:45 PM, tennisgurl said:

for all we know they could have the same biological father, or be related somehow. We still have no idea where they even came from, so they could all have some DNA in common or have some other connections.

Either they have the same father, or they were conceived parthenogenically, in which case we would expect more females. (Only more because there are more combinations than XX and XY).

But if parthenogenesis is involved, with some added mutations, then they are not related genetically at all, but only have their mother's genes.

I'm probably thinking of Orphan Black here. And it is interesting that Allison was able to bear a child.
 

Edited by femmefan1946 · Reason: Further commentary as I read through previous remarks.
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