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S02:E01 Ex Ore Infantium/ S02.E02: Something Wicked

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One year after The Alienist, with Sara Howard, now a private detective, seeking out Dr Kreizler's help in finding the kidnapped infant daughter of a visiting Spanish dignitary. Dr Kreizler reunites with Sara, John Moore and the rest of the original team, with their search for the missing child bringing them into contact with a mysterious woman with a murderous past who is connected to a notorious gang.

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Sara uncovers a clue at the Siegel Cooper Department Store that leads her into dangerous territory; Moore struggles to balance his personal and professional life; Kreizler suspects dark goings-on at the Lying-In Hospital.

Airdate 07.19.2020

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I really enjoyed the first two episodes, although dead babies are creepy are sad. And the execution was very difficult to watch. It's crazy they could find the mother guilty without any evidence. I'm guessing the doctor at the lying-in hospital has a lot of pull; all those rich men coming to him to get rid of their illegitimate babies. 

It was nice seeing the gang back together. John's new fiance seems nice enough, but I doubt that will last. I got a kind of icky vibe between her and her godfather, Hearst. Maybe it's just me. ETA I just read that Violet is suppose to be Hearst’s secret illegitimate daughter. I remember her calling him papa, but I thought that was just a pet name or something. 

And of course Sara had to save John again! He's always walking into danger, unprepared. Bless his cinnamon roll heart though. Goo Goo Knox is a cool name. I googled it, and apparently he was a real guy on The Hudson Dusters. I'm not yet sure how they are involved in the crimes, if they are at all.

The new girls working for Sara seem cool. Hopefully we learn more about them. Lucius Isaacson's crush on Bitsy was cute. 

Edited by pezgirl7
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As soon as I saw Michael McElhatton (Roose Bolton) I knew I was going to hate that character. 🤨I still have undying love for Robb.

I love how all the characters have come into their own and complement each other in their skills and knowledge.

I was glued to the TV with that strong opening that showed such violence against women with the unjust execution of Martha, and the police brutalizing women demonstrators outside the prison.  

Sara is such a boss! Of course, John still loves her. It's jarring to me every time John's fiancee is on screen because she is so vapid and silly compared to all the other women in the show, who are seen to be individuals of substance striving to live up to their full potential in defiance of the small space afforded for women at the time. So far, John's fiancee appears to be oblivious to anything outside her social class.

Looking forward to the next episode!

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The show is finally back!  It felt like it has been forever, but at least they were kind enough to not merely do a previously recap, but even took the time to dress Daniel Bruhl up and basically have him go "Now, pay attention class and please don't fall asleep!" to the viewers, as he recaps the main events.  Thanks, buddy!

I know this is probably just based off of whatever happened in the books, but between this and Perry Mason, there seems to be a lot of brutal baby murders lately on television.  Not exactly a fun trend to be having.  The killer hiding the body in the store was disturbing as hell.  I hope the girl who discovered it didn't just get an ice cream for the day like her mother promised, but for the rest of her life, alongside all of the therapy she will no doubt need.

Too early to really get a handle on the case itself, but we've certainly got a whole lot of shady characters here that are played by actors known for their past shady characters!  Along with the return of Ted Levine sliming it up as Byrnes again, there is William Randolph Hearst played by Matt Letscher a.k.a. (Best) Reverse Flash, who is clearly up to something (cue obvious "This is your fault, Barry!" remark.)  And, of course, this clearly sinister doctor played by Michael McElhatton, who is clearly evil, because duh!  You can never trust Roose Bolton!  Never!

I almost feel bad for Violet, since it clear that John will always care about Sara the most, and their relationship/engagement is likely doomed.  Of course, if I'm wrong and they do managed to get hitched, I'm guessing John will not be asking Laszlo to be his best man, considering his reaction and interaction with Violet.  Too bad, because can you imagine what Laszlo's best man toast would be like?  It would totally be one for the ages!

Sara being a detective now and focusing on women's suffrage and rights is an interesting idea.

Some things will never change, and John needed to be saved is one of them!

I wonder what is going to come of Cyrus running a bar and basically doing his own thing for now.

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I’d forgotten how gruesome the show can get. Bodies being chopped up. Nice meal for the doggies. 😮 Babies being poisoned. When the shadow picked up the baby then grabbed the poison... {{shudder}} Dark stuff. And the dead baby in the store! Poor, poor little girl.

So the doctor is going to perform a hysterectomy on that girl, so his rich client can keep screwing her without getting her pregnant. Might be what the first girl meant by “I know what you’re doing here.” Along with stealing their babies and selling them.

 

Edited by ferjy
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4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Some things will never change, and John needed to be saved is one of them!

lol Last season he was beaten up every second episode so I was waiting for it. I was a little disappointed that he didn’t get bopped in the first episode, we had to wait for the second. 😜

 

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4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Sara being a detective now and focusing on women's suffrage and rights is an interesting idea.

Yes!

But, Elizabeth Cady Stanton?  She was born in 1815!  She would have been 82 years old at the time of the show.  The actress was much too young.

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Hmm. What little I remember about the book is different, which in this case is not a bad thing. Absolutely absurd that a woman of that social standing would be alone in the house, especially when they parade all the servants by later. I thought John asked Sarah to marry him and she turned him down? At this time married women weren't allowed to own anything, it all belonged to the husband so for that reason alone she wouldn't want to. But I don't see her still carrying a torch. At least Dakota Fanning isn't playing her like a Vulcan anymore. And somebody remembered that New York City streets would be covered in horse crap! True to period.

Checked the dates of the Spanish-American War; April 21, 1898  to December 10, 1898.

William Randolph Hearst was quite the muckraker in reality, so these sleazy tactics are historically correct. The New York dailies were engaged in cutthroat competition. Hearst Communications still exists today. However, he would have been only 34 in 1897, so was he supposed to have knocked up the maid at 13 to have an adult daughter? He did actually have an illegitimate daughter but not until about 1920, the actress Patricia Lake.

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I'm so glad this is back! The only thing I have to add is that I hope we see that John didn't use what was supposed to be Mary's engagement ring on Violet. That he kept that ring for Sara, I mean we all know he still loves her. 

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I'm so happy this show is back, too! 

I love that Sara has a whole army of female detectives and workers with her now. She seems to be coming out of her shell and more confident in herself. Maybe shooting that slimy police officer last season was what she needed, lol. I loved her telling Kreizler not to order for her and putting him in his place when he tried to overstep her boundaries. 

I love that Kreizler is still his weird self and makes no apologies for it. It seems as though he has enough money to be able to do so and still get into the fine restaurants he loves so much (his lamenting over the dish that arrived right as Sara dragged him away cracked me up) and other society places. 

John is once again always putting himself in harm's way and needing to be rescued. I'm glad that theme continues. His fiance creeps me out for some reason - the relationship with Hearst, the way she speaks and looks wide eyed all the time, all of it weirds me out. 

The Isaacson brothers were some of my favorites last year so I'm glad they are back. I hope Lucius and Bitsy get together and I'd love to see if Marcus is still with the girl from last season. I also hope they are able to stay safe from Byrnes' meddling (he needs to be put in his place asap). 

I'm not sure how I feel about them airing two episodes every Sunday. I love seeing two full hours but it will burn through the season so much faster. 

 

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8 hours ago, ferjy said:

So the doctor is going to perform a hysterectomy on that girl, so his rich client can keep screwing her without getting her pregnant. Might be what the first girl meant by “I know what you’re doing here.” Along with stealing their babies and selling them.

 

I thought the hysterectomy was a possibility, but then I thought he was also hinting to kill the baby to clean up the mess, leaving no possible surprise illegitimate child to pop up at a later date, and he'd tell the parents the baby had been born dead.

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9 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

Hmm. What little I remember about the book is different, which in this case is not a bad thing. Absolutely absurd that a woman of that social standing would be alone in the house, especially when they parade all the servants by later. I thought John asked Sarah to marry him and she turned him down? At this time married women weren't allowed to own anything, it all belonged to the husband so for that reason alone she wouldn't want to. But I don't see her still carrying a torch. At least Dakota Fanning isn't playing her like a Vulcan anymore. And somebody remembered that New York City streets would be covered in horse crap! True to period.

Checked the dates of the Spanish-American War; April 21, 1898  to December 10, 1898.

William Randolph Hearst was quite the muckraker in reality, so these sleazy tactics are historically correct. The New York dailies were engaged in cutthroat competition. Hearst Communications still exists today. However, he would have been only 34 in 1897, so was he supposed to have knocked up the maid at 13 to have an adult daughter? He did actually have an illegitimate daughter but not until about 1920, the actress Patricia Lake.

Yes, with his long time girlfriend Marion Davies. 

Who played the psycho nurse? She looks so familiar but I can't find her name anywhere! 

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18 hours ago, dramachick said:

As soon as I saw Michael McElhatton (Roose Bolton) I knew I was going to hate that character. 🤨I still have undying love for Robb.

He was the Dr? 😯  as soon as I read this I knew who he played but, I didn't recognize him while watching.

The first two episodes were good. I appreciate that we didn't have to wait too long for the gang to reunite. I appreciate the care given to showing the chsnged in the characters lives since we last knew them.

I hate, hate, hate Byrnes. I hated him last year and, I hate that the bastard lives while poor Mary died.   I hate even more that I keep seeing Leland Stottlemeyer  when he's on screen because I loved him on Monk.

I like that Sarah is still out there kicking ass and taking names. Loved her pulling the gun on Goo Goo Knox.  Poor John always getting into scrapes. He's my favorite of the Trio, probably because he's got the best heart and really cares (sometimes too much) about everything. 

I'm not sute how well I'll do with this season, I find it hard to watch knowing the babies will most likely die until were getting towards the end and they stop the killer.

I was massively confused by Violet Hayworth. I thought she was Hearst's daughter, didn't she mention John working for daddy and John's Editor mentioned something about John's father-in-law. Yet she's not allowed to call him papa and at dinner he called her Miss Violet.

 

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Never mind. I found it. 

Edited by Haleth

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16 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

I was massively confused by Violet Hayworth. I thought she was Hearst's daughter, didn't she mention John working for daddy and John's Editor mentioned something about John's father-in-law. Yet she's not allowed to call him papa and at dinner he called her Miss Violet.

 

From what I gather he is her father but she's illegitimate, so to the outside world he is her godfather, though it seems a lot of people are in the know. Probably one of those "secrets" society knew about but wouldn´t mention out loud.

 

I´m so glad this show is back, in all it´s gruesome, gut-wrenching, nausea inducing glory. Lol really, I love it.

Love that Sarah has kept on her way to remain a fully emancipated woman with a career, although I can´t help doing a bit of shipping even though I never thought her to have romantic feelings for John but I do think she cares for him deeply.  I wish we get to see John´s grandmother again, I love me some Grace Zabriskie.

I have no problem believing a doctor´s testimony would have been enough to condem a woman and a poor one at that, but it is still kinda weird how no one seems to have an answer when the obvious question (where was the baby's body) is brought up. And the show makes a point of bring it up many times, but we never hear whatever explanation the doctor must have given for that.

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22 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I hate even more that I keep seeing

Buffalo Bill...It puts the baby in the basket...

Edited by paigow
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So, I just binged Season 1 and am onboard for Season 2.  Just a few random thoughts....I really like the entire cast and am glad to see most are back.  I have developed a crush on Luke Evans (he was great in Beauty and the Beast).

I also  really like Ted Levine.  He is really creepy in creepy roles (he was amazing in one of my favorite shows of 2019 - On Becoming a God in Central Florida). 

I like Dakota Fanning.  I think she's doing a great job.  She is surrounded by a bunch of men and the character holds her own.

Edited by Jextella
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9 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Who played the psycho nurse? She looks so familiar but I can't find her name anywhere! 

Heather Goldenhersh is listed as playing "The Matron" on IMDb. I somehow recognized her from her like, 30 second bit part on Sex and the City twenty (!) years ago.

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6 hours ago, TwoBitUsherette said:

Heather Goldenhersh is listed as playing "The Matron" on IMDb. I somehow recognized her from her like, 30 second bit part on Sex and the City twenty (!) years ago.

Thanks, that is her. I bet that is where I remember her from too.

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2.1

The baby doll and the real dead baby were so creepy. The difference is that the baby doll gave me the heebie jeebies but the dead baby fully creeped me out.

It made me sad to see all of our characters so separated (although I love that Sara has her own detective business now!). I'm glad this case is going to bring them back together.

Violet's accent was really distracting to me.

Ha, loved Byrnes trying to attribute what Sara said to anarchists only to learn that it was Thomas Jefferson who said it.

Seeing the police start beating protestors was disconcerting just on principle as well as in how timely it is (I know they filmed this episode well before current events so the coincidence was eerie).

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2.2

I honestly didn't think the show would get creepier than dead babies but the asshole doctor and his Handmaid's Tale nurse managed to gross me the fuck out.

I loved when Sara marched into the restaurant to tell Laszlo what an ass he was for deliberately disregarding what she told him. She is running this investigation, not him, so it was really out of line for him to go do exactly what she specifically told him NOT to do. And it's not like she was just power tripping. She had a very good reason why she didn't want him to suggest hypnosis to that mother. She was able to read her client well enough to know that she wouldn't want to do it and that it wouldn't go over well. But of course Laszlo always thinks that he's right and that he can just push people into doing what he wants. I was actually glad when the client reacted exactly the way that Sara predicted., further proving that he should have listened to her instead of going behind her back.

Heh, and I loved that she also told him that she hates terrapin soup but he always insists on ordering it for her. It always annoys me when the men around her do stupid things like that because they think she's a little lady.

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12 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Heh, and I loved that she also told him that she hates terrapin soup but he always insists on ordering it for her. It always annoys me when the men around her do stupid things like that because they think she's a little lady.

Sara should have hesitated when she heard foie gras, then stomped away...

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4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ha, loved Byrnes trying to attribute what Sara said to anarchists only to learn that it was Thomas Jefferson who said it.

I can imagine the same thing happening nowadays with certain people.

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Why in the world would Sara go to that rough area (Hudson St?) at night?  She said cover of darkness would protect her. Huh???  That seems incredibly dumb.  However I did love her turning down soup and ordering a bourbon and reminding the police captain that he’d be held responsible for arresting a diplomat.

I loved Ted Levine in The Bridge.

Roose Bolton as an obstetrician. There’s a nightmare. 

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1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Roose Bolton as an obstetrician. There’s a nightmare. 

Those black forearm sleeves are chain-mail

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I have to say, I've been waiting for this show to return, but I'm somewhat disappointed at the stilted performances so far.  Maybe it will get better. 

I really enjoyed last season. 

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9 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I have to say, I've been waiting for this show to return, but I'm somewhat disappointed at the stilted performances so far.  Maybe it will get better. 

I really enjoyed last season. 

And I really liked it. The second episode just flew by. 

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I have to say I’ve gone from being disappointed I Dakota’s performance of Sara in the first few episodes of season one to absolutely loving it.

There is something in the pauses and the non-rhythmic phrasing that is so Sara I’m almost ashamed I missed it from the beginning.

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20 hours ago, bosawks said:

I have to say I’ve gone from being disappointed I Dakota’s performance of Sara in the first few episodes of season one to absolutely loving it.

There is something in the pauses and the non-rhythmic phrasing that is so Sara I’m almost ashamed I missed it from the beginning.

I also found it disconcerting at first but now I love watching her. Just the way she smokes a cigarette is perfection. 
 

Honestly I wouldn’t normally be into such a psychologically violent show but I can’t get enough of these three leads. I like them as actors and as these characters, and I love them in every combination together. 

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It seems to me that John Moore must be hard up for money, because he asked the restaurant to put his finances lunch on his tab even though he has an outstanding debt to them. It would seem to me that his fiancé knows because she preemptively told the restaurant to put it on her tab. It seems to me, also, that he doesn't care for her and its an open secret between him, Kriesler, and Sara that he has no affection for his fiancé. So I wonder what made him propose/agree to marry her when he was wanted Sara so bad last year.

 

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4 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

It seems to me that John Moore must be hard up for money, because he asked the restaurant to put his finances lunch on his tab even though he has an outstanding debt to them. It would seem to me that his fiancé knows because she preemptively told the restaurant to put it on her tab. It seems to me, also, that he doesn't care for her and its an open secret between him, Kriesler, and Sara that he has no affection for his fiancé. So I wonder what made him propose/agree to marry her when he was wanted Sara so bad last year.

Hmm, I don't get the impression that he doesn't care for Violet. Why do you think that? From the scenes of them together, he shows her affection. He would just rather be out tracking down criminals instead of sitting in a fancy restaurant listening to idle chitchat.

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29 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

Hmm, I don't get the impression that he doesn't care for Violet. Why do you think that? From the scenes of them together, he shows her affection. He would just rather be out tracking down criminals instead of sitting in a fancy restaurant listening to idle chitchat.

I don't know, Kriesler's needling over the dog rather implied that he was trying to show John that his lack of enthusiasm towards Voilet was more obvious than John thinks it is. Plus every time he has been at dinner with her, he looks like he can't wait to leave.

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33 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

I don't know, Kriesler's needling over the dog rather implied that he was trying to show John that his lack of enthusiasm towards Voilet was more obvious than John thinks it is. Plus every time he has been at dinner with her, he looks like he can't wait to leave.

Hmm, I guess that's one way to look at it. I guess I took it at face value, that John just doesn't like little dogs, but he's too nice to say anything negative about Violet, or her dog. To be clear, I don't think John loves Violet. I think he's settling, so he won't be alone. I don't think they'll end up together, but the question is, who will do the dumping? My money is on Violet dumping John, after she spends too much time with Sara.

On a different subject, I hope they start looking into the husbands of the babies. I wonder if the Spanish dignitary guy has a mistress who got pregnant, and he was using the services of the lying-in hospital. And somehow taking his other baby is payback. I just don't see a connection between the two babies yet.

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22 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

Hmm, I guess that's one way to look at it. I guess I took it at face value, that John just doesn't like little dogs, but he's too nice to say anything negative about Violet, or her dog. To be clear, I don't think John loves Violet. I think he's settling, so he won't be alone. I don't think they'll end up together, but the question is, who will do the dumping? My money is on Violet dumping John, after she spends too much time with Sara.

On a different subject, I hope they start looking into the husbands of the babies. I wonder if the Spanish dignitary guy has a mistress who got pregnant, and he was using the services of the lying-in hospital. And somehow taking his other baby is payback. I just don't see a connection between the two babies yet.

It is really to early to tell I think, after this week we might get an idea. I agree I think he agreed to the marriage or proposed because Sara clearly was keeping him at arms length and he doesn't want to be alone. I suspect John will try to call it off after him and Sara have a moment, and Violet won't let him.

I agree, why are we not getting the husband's reaction in regards to the kidnapping? It could be payback from that matron who is so high and mighty. 

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Welcome Back show!

Laslo still.has no filter, the shade thrown at Vapid Violet was Glorious!

Really John, her?

I see they recast Stevie, guess Matt Lintz was still tied up with TWD.

Michael McElhatton as another villain, love his voice.

Buffalo Bill Byrnes is still an asshole.

Haven't seen Diego Martin since Rec 3: Genesis, he"a General Linares.

Like someone stated, Dakota is much more emotive this season.

 

 

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Between this show and Perry Mason, Sunday night is just the infanticide eye gouged evening. What a weirdly specific and creepy coincidence. 

I was on vacation all week in a magical land with little internet access, so I am just catching this, so happy to see this show back, as disturbing and dark as it gets. Great seeing all of the characters again, all the leads just work so well together, the actors all play so well off each other, and you can tell that they all have gotten a real for their characters. 

Well its not the Alienist without John getting in trouble, the poor guy just has the worst habit of running into dangerous situations without much of a plan. John seems to be really into this whole ace reporter thing, a good thing because this year they are going up against William Randolph Hearst, guy who kind of started the Spanish American War, general muckraker, possibly also known as Charles Foster Kane! I loved when John and Sara were basically like "a conspiracy? Again? How do we keep stumbling into these things?!" 

Edited by tennisgurl
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On 7/20/2020 at 1:43 AM, dramachick said:

I was glued to the TV with that strong opening that showed such violence against women with the unjust execution of Martha, and the police brutalizing women demonstrators outside the prison.

It was hard to watch it and sadly proves that not too much has changed today. 

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I’m glad this show is back but I just cannot stand Sara or her bizarre stilted way of speaking. Or should I say, “her hw-ay of speaking.” She just seems like she is overacting in every scene. I disliked her in season one and she is even more annoying now since they’re making her the focus.

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