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S4.E1: Winter Break

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The police question Tyler about the guns, leaving the friends rattled. Winston transfers to Liberty High after getting expelled from Hillcrest.

I had to laugh when Clay asked his mom how he got his semester grades. I'm old so there was no option for my parents NOT to see my grades when I was in school.

The most shocking thing in this episode: TONY'S BLONDE HAIR.

OMG, Jessica. Why did you have to open your mouth? Ani could have moved to Oakland and we wouldn't have to deal with her anymore! And who the hell is Charlie? I know it's been a long time since S3 but I had to google his character and even then I still didn't remember who he was or why he was hanging out with Clay & Co.

Part of me wanted to laugh when Clay's dad came into the welcome home party with six pizzas for nine teenagers. Then I remembered that seven of them were boys and how much guys that age eat and thought huh, he probably should have ordered a few more pizzas.

Even if Clay wasn't worried about Justin going to Oxy, I was. That's an expensive private school. Unless Justin has stellar grades and can get a scholarship, going there would just put him into massive debt. According to the school's website, tuition for 2019-2020 was $55,980 plus an additional $16,034 for room and board. According to the US Department of Education website, the average annual cost after financial aid is still $29,211.

Ugh, I'm so tired of everyone in the group keeping secrets. If they would just tell each other what's going on (like who Winston is and why they suspect he's at Liberty), things would be so much easier and we wouldn't get things like, say, Tyler making friends with Winston. Everyone rationalizing their secrets because they think other people are falling apart or have too much to handle just had me rolling my eyes. Everyone seems to think, "I'm the only one who's strong enough to handle this so I'll just keep this information to myself."

I watched all seven seasons of Pretty Little Liars, so when someone says, "Act normal," I always hear it as, "ACT NORMAL, BITCH!"

Oh, Zach. Taking Alex, a kid who still walks with a slight limp, to a rooftop ledge was a terrible idea. Despite how messy Zach is right now, his reaction to Alex kissing him was still good. I love their friendship so I hope that they keep hanging out.

Clay clearly needs help. Between the anger, the impulse control (or lack thereof), and the hallucinations, he seems to be drowning under all the pressure. I was glad when he finally went to see his therapist (Lieutenant Dan!).

Good for Jess standing up for herself with the security guy who ordered her to step aside for additional inspection. As she told the principal, if you're going to police the students the very least you can do is provide female employees who can deal with the female students. There is no reason that grown men should be doing inspections on teenage girls. Talk about inappropriate.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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S4.E2: College Tour

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After an incident at school, Clay thinks someone's trying to set him up. Zach and Clay land in hot water during a college tour.

I know Clay is clearly barely hanging on, but I'm also really worried about Zach. Has he been sober once this season? They're both being reckless and if they keep it up, someone is really going to get hurt. It's only been two episodes and I'm just relieved that no one fell off the rooftop or got beat to a pulp at the frat house. Clay is lucky that his dad intervened with campus police.

Ha, I enjoyed watching the show stitch together different locations to create Sanderson.

I wish Ani and Clay would just tell everyone exactly who Winston is, which would prevent Tyler and Alex from becoming friends with him and potentially spilling any beans that he might be able to use against them.

I'm still undecided about Estela, mostly because I don't know what she believes. Does she believe that he is a rapist? Does she believe that he killed Bryce? Does she, at the age of 15, understand that it's possible for your brother to be nice to you but an asshole to other people? Although that's assuming that he was nice to her. For all we know, he was an asshole to her too.

Am I supposed to feel bad that Winston isn't guaranteed a spot at Princeton because he got thrown out of his old school? Because I don't.

It made me sad to hear that Justin doesn't want to go to Oxy because he doesn't want Clay's parents to pay for it or take money away from Clay's education. Meanwhile Clay has been taking for granted the fact that he can go to college and his parents will pay for it.

So did Clay actually get rid of Chekov's cans of spray paint? We didn't actually see him do it so I'm assuming that they're going to show up again before the season is over. Hopefully he got rid of them better than he did the gun.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo · Reason: typo
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S4.E3: Valentine's Day

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As the school gears up for the Love Is Love dance on Valentine's Day, disturbing phone calls keep Clay from getting in the spirit.

I know I shouldn't laugh, but Clay getting locked into the darkroom was like every single time the girls on Pretty Little Liars got locked in the pottery kiln, the sauna, the barn, etc. When you add the creepy phone calls where Clay has to do whatever the anonymous caller says (like Hannah being ordered to eat cupcakes or whatever) and the omnipotent caller watching as they do it, this episode was totally PLL for me. And it was the entire football team (minus Zach, Justin, and Charlie)? Uhhh, okay then.

I hate watching Winston play Alex like this. He's just going to end up breaking his heart and betraying him.

Tyler's sketchiness was too obvious to make him a suspect in anything so I'm sure this is all a red herring. At most, Captain Aceveda blackmailed him into reporting on Clay & co (didn't I just see this storyline on Nancy Drew?) but there's nothing to report since they're all back to keeping secrets about everything.

As soon as Clay's parents gave him and Justin new phones for Christmas, I knew they were going to use them to track their every move. I'm surprised it took Clay's mom this long to slip.

Diego was being so gross and unfortunately, Jess fell for it. I hope Clay finally tells his friends the truth about what's been going on so that at the very least Jess stays the hell away from Diego. Anyone who would torture someone like that (and have the nerve to call it a prank) is not someone you want to date.

Every dance on this show has been a disaster of epic proportions so I wasn't sure how they would top the previous ones. I guess Clay walking in looking like he just murdered someone qualifies.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Oh, Zach. Taking Alex, a kid who still walks with a slight limp, to a rooftop ledge was a terrible idea. Despite how messy Zach is right now, his reaction to Alex kissing him was still good. I love their friendship so I hope that they keep hanging out.

 

Zach, even though he has always had a lot of trouble with follow-through, is a genuinely good guy.  

Alex kissing him was kind of out of left field, but also kinda of not.

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S4.E4: Senior Camping Trip

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Clay is forced to confront his anxiety on the senior camping trip as a suspicious email threatens to turn the friends against each other.

Ha, this episode was an advertisement for NOT having a senior camping trip.

Charlie speaking at the funeral while wearing a football jersey at the beginning of this episode makes me think that whoever died was an athlete so Zach or Justin?

For the record, either wear a shirt and tie or wear a sports jersey. Don't wear them at the same time.

And Diego's main concern after being suspended was whether he got to go on the senior camping trip? PRIORITIES.

I would have screamed a lot more than Jess did when she found her hand covered in maggots but I would never just stick my hand inside a log. BLECH.

I am really not here for more of the humanization of Monty. I already lived through last season's attempt to make us feel sorry for Bryce.

OMG, the continuing PLL-ization of this show just makes me laugh. I was willing to believe that Clay was hallucinating but now Jess is hallucinating Bryce in broad daylight too? Okay then.

And now A is running around the woods moving Clay's unconscious body? Again I say okay then. And that was after sending an email from Clay's account threatening to confess everything at the senior camping trip?

The place where Clay woke up had the same symbol spray painted inside as the "Monty was framed" message at school so either A was behind the message or A knows who did it.

Zach has been drunk all season in an effort to not care, but Alex almost drowning finally woke him up, if only briefly. I think that made him realize that he can't just keep thinking only of himself because some people (like Alex) are handling the situation even worse than he is.

When Alex told his dad what it felt like to drown, it sounded like Alex is still depressed and possibly suicidal. His description reminded me of a line in Hamilton: "the moments when you're in so deep, it feels easier to just swim down." I know Alex's dad loves him but he really needs some help.

And I know Alex has been under a lot of pressure with keeping this big murder secret, but maybe don't confess it while you're in a tent surrounded by your classmates, some of whom were friends with Bryce.

Winston is about to go twice as hard investigating Clay and co for Bryce's murder. Nothing like getting dumped and having some free time on your hands to motivate you.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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S4.E5: House Party

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The Jensens make the boys take a drug test. When the Liberty parents learn about an upcoming party, Clay suspects that they're tracking the students.

Honestly, the most surprising thing is that none of the kids realized sooner that their parents were tracking their every move! How would Jess's dad know that Diego had been texting her a lot, especially if she and her dad haven't been home at the same time very much? THINK, KIDS.

The parents being so into their kids' business reminded me of that tv movie about the Stepford Kids (the terrible sequel to Stepford Wives).

Drug testing Clay and Justin was not surprising, but the results were. How did Clay test positive? Diego and the jocks aren't sneaky enough to fake Clay's test results so that must mean the real A is still around.

I knew that Justin had a perfectly normal reason to go back to his old neighborhood but keeping it a secret is making him seem super sketchy. I'm sure if he had just told Clay or his parents that he went back to see his mom, they would have understood. They wouldn't have been happy about it but they know that no matter how shitty a parent she has been, she will always be his mom.

I continue to love Zach and Alex's friendship. Like they said, I'm glad that they can joke about what happened (Alex almost drowning and Alex kissing Zach) and both be okay with it.

Ugh, Winston teaming up with the jocks was predictable but stomach turning. I guess the enemy of my enemy is my friend, even if only temporarily. I don't know why anyone thought it would be good to have any kind of memorial for Monty at a drunken party though. Who does that?

I haaaaate that Jess is still dating that dickhead Diego but I hate it even more that she's clearly doing it to get back at Justin. Showing up at Monet's with Diego while Justin was working was not a good look. Justin has her number though. She can claim she's dating Diego to keep an eye on him but she's really doing it to try to get a reaction from Justin.

Seeing Clay and Justin's relationship deteriorate has made me sad but their fight at the party broke my heart. Justin has always been aware that he is the interloper and has never tried to take Clay's place, but Clay really lost it. Accusing Justin of switching their drug tests and then flat out telling him that Matt and Lainie are HIS parents was just mean. There are other relationships on this show that are kind of meh to me. Like I'm not heartbroken that Jess and Justin have broken up (again). But Justin and Clay have been through a lot together so it is really terrible to see their relationship devolve to this. Heh, I thought pot was supposed to make you mellow but apparently it just makes Clay an angry dick.

When Caleb showed up at the fight, it reminded me of that Friends episode where Monica broke up with Jon Favreau because he wanted to become an ultimate fighter and he was just getting his ass beat. I could not watch someone I love getting punched repeatedly.

When Tony originally said he was going to fight, my first reaction was damn, are high school kids legally allowed to box for money? Then I remembered that Tony is like 37 years old.

Charlie seems too good to be true - a popular jock who is kind, stands up to bullies, knows how to bake awesome cookies, and keeps everyone's secrets? I know his cookies are a thing but they've shown up so much (Justin's welcome home party, the senior camping trip, and now the find your drink party) that I'm afraid someone is going to die a cookie related death and Charlie will be a suspect. I'm mostly kidding but you never know with this show.

I totally laughed when Clay walked up to Zach playing the piano in the middle of the party and said, "You play the piano?" Nope, it just looks like I do! That's why I laughed even harder when Zach's response was, "No."

I don't understand why the seniors were having a find your drink party. In previous seasons, we saw that the kids at Liberty drink a lot so why is there an assumption that you don't know what your drink is by the time you're about to graduate? After four years of drinking, you should already know!

I love the running theme this season that every time Clay admits to someone that he's done something wrong, the person just responds with, "Yup, you do that all the time. You need to be a lot more specific about which time you're talking about now."

I cracked up when Chloe said she worked her ass off to get into San Diego State because back in the ye olden days, that was known as a party school where you only needed a 2.0 to get in.

I know that Tony's real motivation in offering Tyler a ride home after the fight was to keep him away from the sheriff, but I also loved his code: "I picked you up. I can drop you off." When I was in high school and college, that was always the rule. If you give your friend a ride somewhere, you are responsible for the round trip.

Ooh, what are the chances that Diego and Monty were secretly hooking up? Diego seemed really rattled when Winston told him the truth.

OH SHIT! I legit gasped when Clay drove Zach's car off the road. If Zach survives the accident, his mom is going to be SO MAD.

ETA: Brenda Strong directed this episode!

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

OMG, the continuing PLL-ization of this show just makes me laugh. I was willing to believe that Clay was hallucinating but now Jess is hallucinating Bryce in broad daylight too? Okay then.

And now A is running around the woods moving Clay's unconscious body? Again I say okay then. And that was after sending an email from Clay's account threatening to confess everything at the senior camping trip?

That's what this episode reminded me of, some of the worst PLL episodes! Thank you for identifying it and calling it out!

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For as ridiculous as it is, I’m finding this a lot more watchable than last season. 

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12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Oh, Zach. Taking Alex, a kid who still walks with a slight limp, to a rooftop ledge was a terrible idea. Despite how messy Zach is right now, his reaction to Alex kissing him was still good. I love their friendship so I hope that they keep hanging out.

When Alex kissed Zach I literally yelled out YES! That's been brewing since Season 2 and I was happy that the writers decided that they weren't just writing some HoYay! during that time. The YAY! was quickly followed by an 'Oh no!' when Zach told Alex he wasn't into guys followed by an Aww when Zach made it clear to Alex that it doesn't change anything and wouldn't let Alex run away from embarrassment. If you asked me in Season 1 if I thought I would be invested in the Zach/Alex friendship I would have laughed in your face, but it's now probably the main friendship I enjoy following the course of.

I've only watched Episode 1 - wanted to know what the general plot/vibe was going to be. And I'm keen to see it unravel - although not sure I can cope with all the 'ghosts' haha. Not being a murder mystery also means I don't have to full on binge to avoid spoilers, like last season and can take my time.

Out of curiosity when was Season 1 set? Has each season technically been a school year so they were in the first year of High School? Is that the right term I'm Australian? - which would match up with Year 9 (Kids are around 15).

My only criticism is that there are only 10 episodes. It is doing my head in that the 4th season didn't stick to the 13 episode blueprint of the previous season.

I'm already hoping its Winston in that coffin. I'm not sure I want to lose any of these characters.

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13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Part of me wanted to laugh when Clay's dad came into the welcome home party with six pizzas for nine teenagers. Then I remembered that seven of them were boys and how much guys that age eat and thought huh, he probably should have ordered a few more pizzas.

That's funny, but brought back a memory from long, long ago when I was a teen. Nine of us went to this establishment that served pizza and beer. The order was NINE PITCHERS OF BEER & NINE PIZZAS.

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Hmmm Episode 2 has me thinking we now need to throw Estella into the mix as potential person who wants to see the group's secret exposed. My money is still on Winston, but at the moment I'm predicting that Winston is going to discover that Monty really was a jerk and a pleasant one (or more) night stand doesn't excuse that fact and will end up not dobbing the group in.

I always felt Alex was gay since Season 1 but just assumed I was reading too much into the scenes especially after reading the book where I didn't pick up any vibe from the book character. At the moment the series is doing a good job with Alex's realisation let's hope they don't drop the ball the scene with Tony was well done IMO. And kudos to Miles' acting with Alex's injury. I know it's minor and basic acting but he really does a good job with keeping the limp consistent he was excellent last year as well.

Even though this series has its moments of absurdities, after watching Riverdale it is so refreshing to see TV teens behaving like teens and not adults. And at least there are still regular school scenes.

Question because I can't remember, is Zach part of the coverup? Or did he withdraw before the coverup was created? Just trying to determine if Zach's issue is linked to guilt with the coverup or something completely different.

And good to see Bryce is still an unlikeable dick in hallucinations.

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Me, three seconds in: 

"Oh for Fucks sake, another student has died?! Already? I think its finally time to bulldoze Liberty High, call an exorcist in to cleanse the sight, and just call it a day."

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5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Me, three seconds in: 

"Oh for Fucks sake, another student has died?! Already? I think its finally time to bulldoze Liberty High, call an exorcist in to cleanse the sight, and just call it a day."

I had that exact same thought but then I realised the student has died as a hook to keep us watching I guess. A hook so to speak. Ooh who could it be. My money is on someone who is not in the main group of actors except for Ani cause she isn't a Season One original. God it better not be an original. Hopefully it's Kim that student who was in the cafeteria that one time and was in that class the core group took the other time and was often seen hanging in the playground before school started.

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I won't give too much away, but despite the aforementioned trainwreck, I actually finished the entire thing today.  I don't know what I would say about its overall quality, but it held my interest, which S3 didn't do.  And there was a lot of really good acting in the service of bad writing.

I think Alex's storyline was the most interesting, but a lot of that was because it really seemed to open up Miles Heizer as an actor in a way he hadn't been before.

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9 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

That's what this episode reminded me of, some of the worst PLL episodes! Thank you for identifying it and calling it out!

Ha, PLL was the first thing that popped into my head when all of this stuff started happening, but that's also why I had a hard time taking any of the "scary" things in this season seriously. I mean, what's next? Emily gets glass in her hair again? A mannequin falls on someone in a dressing room?

I know this show is fine with killing off main characters, but I just couldn't take it seriously when any of these people, particularly Clay, were supposed to be in peril because given that that the first episode of the season began with the funeral of another Liberty student, I could tell they were going to draw out the identity of this person as long as possible, which meant that Clay getting A-like phone calls was not going to result in him dying in the third episode. And I totally cracked up when Clay was on the football field and an entire team of As in black hoodies held up their phones.

7 hours ago, starri said:

For as ridiculous as it is, I’m finding this a lot more watchable than last season. 

I agree. I am a lot more interested in what's happening this season than last season. I think a huge part of this is because last season was way too much Bryce and Ani. I had no interest in humanizing Bryce or having a brand new person become a main character and narrator.

This season I haven't minded Ani as much and I think that's mostly because she isn't front and center for every episode. If they had brought her on last season the way they've brought in Winston this season (meaning as a secondary/peripheral character rather than a replacement for Hannah), I wouldn't have minded having her around. They're using Winston the right amount so far. He's around and he's interacting with many of the main characters be it isn't ALL WINSTON ALL THE TIME the way it was with Ani last season.

5 hours ago, preeya said:

That's funny, but brought back a memory from long, long ago when I was a teen. Nine of us went to this establishment that served pizza and beer. The order was NINE PITCHERS OF BEER & NINE PIZZAS.

Hahahaha, so I was correct - Clay's dad definitely needed to order more pizza!

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Me, three seconds in: 

"Oh for Fucks sake, another student has died?! Already? I think its finally time to bulldoze Liberty High, call an exorcist in to cleanse the sight, and just call it a day."

Liberty High's body count is about to rival Sunnydale High's! If Clay et al manage to make it to graduation, maybe the mayor will turn into a giant snake demon and eat the principal?

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I'm three episodes in, and I just want to scream my head off every time Clay is onscreen.  Whatever insanity they're trying to portray with him is absolute garbage, and it's mind-numbingly stupid.  I want him to find Tyler's gun dealer, buy a machine gun, take out every single sack of shit on the football team other than Charlie and Zach and Justin, and then shoot his own goddamn head off.  I cannot take it.

Then, I want Ani to take the fall for everything because Clay will be mercifully dead and she is the worst.  The utter refusal of her and Clay to tell the group about Winston makes no. fucking. sense.  None.  Especially now that Ani has seen him making out with Alex (in the least shocking gay reveal ever).  Plot contrivance at its worst.

And yes, Diego, you obvious piece of shit, if Charlie hasn't come out to you or anyone else you know, calling him "gay or bi or whatever" is not OK, and Jess not listening to every obvious instinct she had made me want to stab myself in the face.

I want Jess to stop being so weird about Justin.

I want Justin to continue to be wonderful and to go to Occidental and only partially because it would be hilarious for the college he attended to have the nickname "Oxy."

I want my sweet, caring Zach back; I don't like alcoholic Zach as much, even though I understand why and like that he was so cool about Alex kissing him.

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I’m only one episode in and my jaw was so clenched with annoyance I got a headache. I can’t tolerate 9 more episodes of Ani, or 9 more episodes of Clay hallucinating. 🙄

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I have never seen a single episode of Pretty Little Liar so this episode reminded me a lot of the Karen McManus books One Of Us Is Lying/Is Next with the anonymous person forcing our protagonist to do dares or else suffer the consequences. I'm hoping with the reveal that it was the football team behind the calls that the 'horror' element of the show will stop. I'm not a fan of wondering what's lying in the shadows. And with Clay entering the dance covered in fake blood I guess I am being forced to assume a bloody body is going to be discovered otherwise why have Clay enter the way he did. And please let Clay tell Jess that Diego is a douchebag.

I'm not sure what it says about this show that I kept expecting an explosion to occur during the dance.

I'm also not sure how I'm meant to feel about Winston. Is he a true bad guy, or just a misunderstood eventual good guy. I remember liking him in Season 3 (and feeling sorry for the way Monty treated him at the party) until that final moment with Ani, and I initially didn't like him in Episode 1 of this season. I don't know if I'm projecting because I want a happy gay ending for Alex, but the past 2 episodes I've felt that Winston is learning that Monty wasn't the dreamboat guy the sex led him to believe he was.

But as I've typed this up I've realised with the reveal it was the football team behind the 'prank', that technically means the 'Monty was framed' vandalism has been solved? Or are those two different storylines?

Diego - or the mysterious voice - mentioned that Monty was charged with murder and then killed. Is that correct? I thought he was only in prison for the assault. The gang didn't plant the murder until after he was dead. I know the team could have the wrong info, but I guess I just need clarification that my memory is correct. I mean I am the person who totally forgot that Zach got his leg busted last season.

But the biggest question is do I keep watching and avoid the reports I have to write. Or just do my damn reports and then binge in peace?

Edited by Bill1978

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Six episodes in, and I need to go to bed because 1) it's after 1:00am and 2) I'm about to warp my eyes permanently from all the eye-rolling.  There is a 0% chance Clay wouldn't have been shot fucking dead for pulling that officer's gun and waving it around like the psycho he is.  I will take 37 holier-than-thou-Ani-narrated episodes over any of the Clay-mental-breakdown scenes; they are so unbelievable that it's become unbearable to watch.

Also, I hate Winston.  I hate him.  I don't believe he loved/loves Alex, and it makes zero sense that he'd be this invested in clearing the name of a guy who beat him severely – I don't care how awesome the post-beating sex was (which in and of itself is so fucked up and problematic).  Also, I don't care about the Winston/Diego crusade to clear Monty's name because Monty was a piece of shit, as are the two of them.

And why does Monty need to be humanized?  It's the same fucking problem as last season with Bryce.  I don't need or want these two rapist monsters to be humanized, and I don't care about any justice for either of them; their victims never got any, other than comfort in the knowledge that they're dead as fucking disco.  I will say, though, that I was hoping Hallucination Bryce and Monty would prompt Clay to run in front of a gunman and be shot to death.  Oh well.

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Well didn't I jinx myself thinking the 'horror' tropes were over. Because I'm a sook, so much of that camping trip was freaking me out. Especially the moment with the person running the axe outside the cabin - that's truly messed up. We better get answers about who was terrorising the seniors.

I was so worried about Alex drowning, so glad that Zach wasn't so wasted to not notice his bestie was drowning.

With 3 people now having hallucinations, I feel everyone in the gang needs therapy - especially Jess after seeing Bryce spewing bugs while conscious. I feel there were a number of scenes cut for time from the screenplay as lots of people why jumping from place to place with no explanation i.e. Jess suddenly being at the cabin after seeing Bryce.

I am back on the Winston hate train, I really don't understand how someone can still think Monty deserves justice when you know what he did to Tyler. Proving he isn't a murderer doesn't make his rape more acceptable. Plus I think I can hate WInston, now that I think perhaps Charlie will be Alex's joy. Even if Zach thinks happiness only makes you unhappy. Now that I've typed that it's probably Alex that dies. I'm still holding out hope that the dead student is not one of the originals.

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5 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I have never seen a single episode of Pretty Little Liar so this episode reminded me a lot of the Karen McManus books One Of Us Is Lying/Is Next with the anonymous person forcing our protagonist to do dares or else suffer the consequences.

It's basically the same concept. On PLL someone kept sending the four main characters super creepy "gifts" or had things delivered to them at home/school. This person also did things like force them to do specific things like publicly humiliating themselves, lying to their parents/friends, and breaking up with significant others to keep the anonymous person from revealing the main characters' secrets. On top of that this person seemed to be everywhere. They would text the girls immediately after something happened and knew about conversations that the girls had which meant this person was clearly watching them at all times (in public, in private, it didn't matter where they were).

13 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

Out of curiosity when was Season 1 set? Has each season technically been a school year so they were in the first year of High School? Is that the right term I'm Australian? - which would match up with Year 9 (Kids are around 15).

I haven't watched the previous seasons since they aired but I think the first season was their junior year because Hannah was already old enough to drive (and so was Sheri, the girl who had the car accident). Junior year is the third year of high school. You have to be 16 to have a driver's license in the United States. Most kids start their junior year being 16 and turn 17 (although there's some variety depending on when your birthday falls - I always knew a few kids who were a year older/younger than everyone else in their grade). If I recall correctly, Marcus was one of the few characters who wasn't in the same grade as the others. At some point during S1, it's mentioned that Clay is 17 so unless he flunked a year, he should be a junior.

In S2 they had some flashbacks to the previous summer when Hannah and Zach hooked up (and maybe the previous school year?) but S2 begins five months after the end of S1. The spring dance in the season finale means it takes place some time during spring semester so this should be the second semester of Clay's junior year.

S3 takes place eight months after S2 so it's the first semester of Clay's senior year, which is the fourth and final year of high school. Most seniors are 17 and turn 18.

S4 begins during winter break, which is just before the spring semester of Clay's senior year.

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S4.E6: Thursday

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The school goes into lockdown and Clay, Tony, and Justin worry about Tyler's whereabouts.

Wow, high school has changed a lot since I was a student. Our dummies didn't have fake blood or anything and we didn't learn how to triage gunshot wounds. We just had an armless torso to practice CPR on.

I can't blame Zach for being fed up with Clay. He crashed his car and then left him for dead. That's a pretty terrible thing to do to a stranger, let alone someone who is supposed to be your friend. Zach tends to be a pretty forgiving guy so you know someone has screwed up if Zach says to stay out of his life.

But when Zach said that Clay looked like he wasn't even there or that he was somebody else, it reminded me of when Clay said (in the second episode, I think) that he's been losing time. Does he have a dissociative disorder? Is he the one who has been terrifying himself and threatening to tell the truth? That would explain how the email from his account got sent to everyone right before the senior camping trip. As his therapist has been discussing with him, Clay feels he needs to be punished so maybe this is how he's been dealing with it.

The most I've ever liked Diego was when he was trying to be nice to that scared kid in the shower.

But OMG I am so tired of seeing Monty and Bryce. They're both dead and we're still stuck with them. Ugh.

I was beginning to wonder if Winston somehow set up the drill to try to get a confession out of someone or if Dean Foundry did it to scare the shit out of everyone and try to get someone to narc, but the way that Foundry freaked out when Alex wanted to get out of the library made me think that he hadn't planned it.

Clay's need to be a savior is driving me crazy. His decision to leave the classroom in case someone needed to be saved was even worse than Diego wanting to leave. I'm not saying that Diego was smart, but at least he had a baseball bat and some other athletes. Clay just walked out into the hallway by himself and completely unarmed. If there really had been a shooter, Clay would probably be dead.

Bolan's decision to terrify the students and staff just to make sure that they followed protocol was FUCKING TERRIBLE. If I were a parent, I would be calling for Bolan to be fired.

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F this show. Don't waste your time watching it.

Spoilers for the whole season:

Spoiler

Clay has been a major douchebag to Justin the whole season and then suddenly when Justin is on his deathbed he loves him? Shut the F up.

Alex doesn't deserve a happy ending. He should be in jail.

And Clay should be in a mental institution. I knew he was dissociating since the first or second ep. All the hallucinations were making me want to throw my laptop out of my window. Especially when they featured Bryce or Monty.

Still don't understand who thought it was a good idea to kill the best character on the show. What about the murderer or the school shooter? Seriously, F this show.

Ani was surprisingly tolerable this season.

Was Clay's therapist Mac from CSI: NY or am I crazy? If it's him he looks way older than I remember him from CSI. It makes me feel old.

The "actor" who plays Alex is cringeworthy.

Can't believe I watched this trainwreck to the bitter end.

That's all I have to say.

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S4.E7: College Interview

Quote

Clay's mental health continues to decline as the friends wrestle with difficult emotions during their college admissions interviews.

I was surprised that the doctors let Justin see Clay at the hospital. And even then, Clay still couldn't let go of the idea that Justin is usurping him in the family.

I don't understand why Winston is still trying to prove that Monty didn't kill Bryce. Winston knows that Monty beat him up. He also knows what Monty did to Tyler. Yet he is still obsessed with finding out who really killed Bryce, a serial rapist. Has he convinced himself that what he had with Monty was a real relationship and that he owes it to his abusive boyfriend to clear his name?

And Diego telling Zach that what he's done is worse than what Bryce or Monty did was another level of fucked up. I don't know how Jessica can stand to look at Diego. I guess at least now Zach knows that Winston can't be trusted. It's too late, but still.

Ha, I honestly didn't think Clay had it in him to be wily enough to sneak out of the hospital by shitting the bed. At first I thought that he was hallucinating Ani too. Having Ani back just reminded me how much I haven't missed her since she went to help her sick mom. When she started talking about how she was afraid that her relationship with Jess was ruined, I realized that I don't care about their friendship. I can't blame Jess for feeling betrayed that Ani, who was supposed to be her friend, slept with her rapist. I'm much more invested in the S1/S2 friendships.

Poor Justin. On a conscious level, he knows that there's nothing he could have done to save his mom, but that isn't going to stop him from being upset that she's dead, blaming himself, and wondering if there was one little thing he could have done that would have made a difference.

And now Zach is punishing himself by letting Diego beat him to a bloody pulp?

If Tony was convinced that Tyler was being set up by the cops, why didn't he just tell him hours ago when he first overheard what they were talking about instead of letting him go to the meet up?

I understand why Ani doesn't want to accept Bryce's college fund money. My bigger question was why Alex was creeping around Bryce's house in the first place which is what allowed him to see Ani meeting with Mrs. Walker.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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1 hour ago, Asha124 said:

F this show. Don't waste your time watching it.

Spoilers for the whole season:

  Hide contents

Clay has been a major douchebag to Justin the whole season and then suddenly when Justin is on his deathbed he loves him? Shut the F up.

Alex doesn't deserve a happy ending. He should be in jail.

And Clay should be in a mental institution. I knew he was dissociating since the first or second ep. All the hallucinations were making me want to throw my laptop out of my window. Especially when they featured Bryce or Monty.

Still don't understand who thought it was a good idea to kill the best character on the show. What about the murderer or the school shooter? Seriously, F this show.

I agree with you so so much! Writers showed terrible injustice, "forgave" characters who should be in jail and let them live happily but ruined the best developed arc. I can't accept that ending. Never will. It stings.

 

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S04.E08: Acceptance/Rejection

Quote

In the wake of the lockdown, the school is on edge - and a troubling abuse of power pushes the students to take action.

Did we really need a five minute sci fi dream sequence just so we knew Clay felt guilty?

Do schools still send paper acceptance letters in the mail? I thought they all did online acceptance now. I was also laughing that in Evergreen, the post office delivers mail before breakfast. I'm lucky if my mail gets delivered before 5pm. I can't tell you how many times I've come home from work to find that the mail still hadn't been delivered yet.

Poor Alex. He won't let himself consider that he can have a future or go to college or be happy.

Oh good. PLL's A is back and leaving clues. Jess supposedly burned the last existing tape that Bryce sent so who still had a copy and then gave it to Winston? Ugh and Winston thinks that Clay and Ani made Alex break up with him to cover for Jess? What kind of logic is that? He can't just accept that Alex was pissed that he kept his connection to Monty a secret from him and that there's nothing more to it.

Ani just moved in with Tony at the end of the previous episode and I'd already forgotten about that. Since when are Tony and Ani such great friends that Caleb would say that Ani is the only one who Tony listens to? Stop trying to make Ani happen, show. I appreciate that she isn't as prominent this season as she was last season but stop trying to make me believe that she's BFFs with Jess, Tony, and everyone.

One thing I loved was when Diego said that Luke saw her hanging out with Justin and then asked why he didn't tell him and she said that she doesn't need his permission. NO SHIT so back off, Diego.

Damn it, I am so disappointed that Justin is using again but I'm even more disappointed that it's because he thinks Jess really likes Diego.

One of the most unbelievable things this season is that the kids already figured out that their parents were tracking their movements using their phones and reading their texts (which is how they found out about the party), but they're not suspicious of all these date nights or the Gordon Lightfoot reference? These are not stupid kids so it makes no sense that they've just conveniently forgotten what they already knew several episodes ago. Clay shouldn't have needed to follow his parents to that school meeting in order to find out that the parents were totally invading their privacy and spying on them in every way possible.

But credit to Matt for asking Foundry how the active shooter drill was considered successful when it gave his son a nervous breakdown.

I was already shaking my head when Foundry claimed that the drill made the school more prepared for an emergency. How is that true? The principal said that Clay was the only one who didn't stay inside a classroom (I guess the coach didn't report Justin's escape) so how did terrorizing hundreds of students and having them hide in classrooms make the school more prepared for anything?

I laughed when Diego said he was going to get the truth out of Justin by beating the shit out of him. I think he's watched one too many gangster movies but didn't pay close enough attention. He tried that with Zach but he obviously doesn't know how to do it correctly. If you beat up someone who isn't fighting back because they think the deserve to be punished AND you don't ask any questions, you aren't going to get any answers.

I was glad that so many students were recording the security guard who slammed Diego against the lockers. Instead of complaining to Bolan (who clearly doesn't give a shit), they should have just posted the video online and sent the link to the media. I don't understand why security guards at a suburban high school need guns anyway.

When Jess and Clay admitted that they didn't know what they were doing or where they were going, I thought it's 2019 (on the show). Call your local news station and tell them to send a camera crew to campus immediately and then march downtown to city hall. The camera crew would hopefully prevent the police from using excessive violence against children.

Watching Zach's death wish get more and more extreme, first letting Diego hit him and then taking on the police just broke my heart.

I will say that nothing unifies a group of people like having a common cause. Their utter hatred of the way they've been treated at school and watching their classmates get attacked by the security officers was more than enough to bring enemies together. I don't know why Diego made the leap from Justin saying Jessica can't get arrested to Jessica must have killed Bryce. How about Justin cares about his ex-girlfriend and wants her to be able to go to college without a police record? That seems like a more reasonable assumption.

I was shocked that the police officer who's been coaching Tony genuinely wanted to help him. I thought he'd just been trying to get him to trust him so that he could get information from him.

I don't think Clay was lying to his therapist. He really has been dissociating and torturing himself.

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I miss the individual episode threads. By the time the season ends, I’ll have forgotten important nuances I wanted to discuss with strangers on the internet. Now excuse me while I watch Clay’s spiral spoiler free.

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Just now, bettername2come said:

I miss the individual episode threads. By the time the season ends, I’ll have forgotten important nuances I wanted to discuss with strangers on the internet.

I do too. But you can do what I do - hit the "end" key which will take you to the bottom of the page so you can post about each episode individually without getting spoiled (I'm so paranoid that I also put my hand over the screen so I don't accidentally see ANYTHING). Then after you've finished watching the whole season, you can go back and read the other comments. It's not as good as actually discussing each episode with people right after you've watched each one, but it's easier than trying to remember all the things you wanted to talk about until you've watched everything (and it's way better than accidentally getting spoiled by reading through the season thread before you're done).

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Am I crazy, or was Tyler originally a year younger than everyone else?

I know Tony was held back, even though he's older and not just because Christian Navarro looks like he's north of 30.

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Episode 1: Clay is an awesome friend. Love him asking Tyler if he trusts him and getting "Always." Heh, Jess choosing between "Clay-cray" and "Clazy." I liked her pointing out the lack of a female officer and that the principal agreed with her. I also really liked the irony of seeing the words "Liberty High" behind all the security and metal detectors. I hate seeing Zach all self-destructive. I like that Justin seems to legitimately have his shit together so far. I always love how they present Clay and Justin's relationship since season 2 and how they always try to save each other. Did not see Alex kissing Zach coming, but I love that Zach would not let him just walk away from their hangout after. Well now I feel better about constantly mixing Alex up with the gay poet character back in season 1. Did we know Clay saw a psychiatrist in middle school?

This has nothing to do with anything, but I love Clay's stupid jeans with holes in the knees because it seems so counter to the Clay of season 1's style.

 

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Episode 4: Jessica dating the guy who's trying to prove Monte was framed seems like a really terrible decision. And Alex doing the same thing, but at least he broke up with Winston. "Yeah, that REI guy really saw you coming." Heh. I love that they have a cliche 1980s horror movie legend about the woods. Can't say I expected "horror movie in the woods where they get singled out one by one" from this show. Winston seemed sincere when he talked to Tyler. Clay's missing time is weird enough that I'm not sure he's not doing stuff without realizing it. 

On 6/5/2020 at 10:34 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And now A is running around the woods moving Clay's unconscious body?

I love that you're just flat out calling our mysterious creeper A. 

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5 hours ago, Asha124 said:

Was Clay's therapist Mac from CSI: NY or am I crazy? If it's him he looks way older than I remember him from CSI. It makes me feel old.

Yes, that is Gary Sinise, but he is arguably more well known for playing Lt. Dan from Forrest Gump

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So I am halfway through the season now, and my thoughts so far...

I cant decide whos behavior is more baffling, Clay or Winston. At least Clay is having some kind of psychotic break (which has probably been a long time coming) whats Winstons excuse? He is doing so much to get some kind of revenge/justice for Monty, but why? He hardly even knew Monty, he met him twice, and one time he kicked the shit out of him after they had sex! Why this elaborate plan to bring everyone down for framing him? Not that I really approve of what they did, or of Alex killing Bryce in the first place, but this is ridiculous! He especially has some nerve acting all hurt that Tyler doesent want to be friends with him, considering Winston is over here trying to clear the "good name" of Tyler's rapist! This is just turning into Bryce from last season all over again, bending over backwards to try and make us feel bad for these awful people that did awful things. Yeah its good to have shades of grey and no ones behavior exists in a vacuum (there are probably horrible people of all sorts who do have people they care about who care about them) but this is just leaving a bad taste in my mouth. 

Clays mental breakdown is not only making him see things, but also apparently being a total asshole, even to his own friends and family. Which leads me to what seems to be a major theme of the season...Justin tries to be a supportive friend to everyone and keep his life from going off the rails again, and everyone being pissed at him for no reason. I get that Jess is hurt that Justin broke up with her, but the reason he did it, because he wanted to work on himself and didnt feel like he could handle a relationship at the minute, seems really understandable, but she is acting like he cheated on her and dumped her over a text or something. And Clay? What is even the hell?! I have no clue why Clay is so pissed at him now for daring to show concern for his clear breakdown (and poor Justin is just as confused as I am) is accusing him of relapsing and for trying to "steal" his family? For real? You want him to go back to his former address at 1000 junk addled homeless teenage prostitute Lane? I can get the breakdown, but why is he being such a dick on top of it?

Ummm guys? Maybe your parents are tracking your phones? 

Anni is gone for now at least, a character that I so do not miss, and have never understood the point of. 

That all being said, I have liked some of this, despite all of the over the top melodrama (as this show officially starts to finally make its transition to Riverdale/Pretty little Liars style insanity) and some of it is working. Justin is still the best, his puppy like enthusiasm about college and life with the Jensons is ridiculously sweet and endearing, Zach and Alex are still solid as weird pals (even with the awkward kiss and Zachs self destruction getting worse and worse) and the subplot about the school spending more time on increasing security than actually dealing with the schools many clear problems is pretty good so far. 

I love how at Liberty, when your a jock, you just do ALL of the sports, be it basketball, baseball, or football. 

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Episode 5: So someone's drugging Clay? Or he's forgetting that he's used drugs? Tracking Justin and Clay and drug testing them seems completely fair given the shitstorm their lives have been for the past 2 years. 

Sex that last twelve seconds and Clay asks if she finished. I'd say it's the most teenage boy question ever, but most teenage boys probably wouldn't ask, so... 

Ah! Not Zach and Clay crashing. They're the nice ones!

Edited by bettername2come
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34 minutes ago, Constant Viewer said:

Yes, that is Gary Sinise, but he is arguably more well known for playing Lt. Dan from Forrest Gump

Yeah, I'm officially old. The last time I've seen Forrest Gump, videotapes were still a thing so I don't really remember anybody except for Tom Hanks.

Thanks for confirming it's him. I might go and rewatch CSI: NY just to get the memory of this season out of my head.

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I just watched Episode 7, and it's hilarious that Clay was just so easily able to trick his way out of the hospital.  He's ranting out loud to himself by himself all over town, he stole and waved a gun around like an actually crazy person last episode, yet he's somehow "not a danger to himself."  He's so obviously fucked up and crazy that it makes absolutely no sense that he hasn't been expelled and committed to a mental institution, rather than scoring an interview with Brown (I honestly thought he'd actually submitted the application himself in a psychotic break since he seems to be dissociating and losing large chunks of time).  By the way, my job is tangentially part of the college admissions process, and interviews are the least important part of applications.  They also do not happen at the actual high schools students attend during school hours; Clay's interview at a coffee shop was, by far, the most realistic.

I'm not here for Alex's gay self-loathing/general self-loathing/whatever bullshit he's going through.  The hot (and KIND) jock wants you, shit for brains – be kind back to him!  Also, what the fuck are you doing spying on Bryce's mom and Ani?

I get what Zach was doing, but I wanted him to throw Diego onto a spike or something because that guy is a total fuck.

I just want to hug Justin.  Poor guy.

It's been blatantly obvious since the pilot that Tyler struck a deal with the cops to catch the gun dealer, and I honestly laughed at Tony's total misread of that because it makes. no. sense. that this would all be about entrapping a goddamn high-school student.  And of course, he has to involve Clay and play unbelievably stupid about why this might not be the best time for Clay, who just waved a gun around psychotically in front of everyone and was strapped to a bed in the hospital as a result, to be in the middle of this.  Of course, really, Tony should've just told Tyler he thought the police were setting him up instead of, what, trying to stop a gun deal with an armed gun dealer from going down?  Or something?  And Tyler should've just told them when he first made the deal what was happening.  I hope that gun dealer shot Clay just because he's generally awful and/or Tony because he's been unforgivably stupid.  However, I have no doubt that everyone but the gun dealer will be fine next episode and that Clay will extremely plausibly get into Brown.

This. is. maddening

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Episode 5 finally ditches the 'horror' tropes and returns the ridiculous 'teen drama' tope of a party being in a massive mansion. I swear if I watched this episode from the middle I would have assumed they were partying in a hotel. I liked the parties in the previous season where they were held in a realistic house. I also get taken ut of a TV show or movie when teens have a party in a massive house.

I'm not loving the destruction of the Clay/Justin relationship but I feel it is still in a salvageable stage so I'm not totally crushed they are destroying the dynamics at the moment. Although if they decide to destroy the Zach/Alex friendship they have another thing coming. 

Really don't understand how Jessica can still be with Diego, because he is clearly a douche and goes against everything Jessica has fought for the previous 3 seasons, even if she is claiming she is playing him.

I didn't even realise Ani wasn't in the episode until Zach mentioned her..oops!

There has to be something with Charlie (good or bad) otherwise what was the point of those scenes with Alex. Perhaps @ElectricBoogaloo is correct and the cookies are Chekov's Gun.

That ending had me exclaiming Holy shit! I did not expect them to go rolling off the cliff, I expected a crash but not a cliff crash.

And thank you @ElectricBoogaloo for explaining the seasons and the links to the school year. I admit that whenever I see a school dance on a TV show I automatically assume it's the end of year prom. 

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Episode 6: 

I was not emotionally prepared for this episode. Shit. At the beginning I started writing a post about how disappointed I was in Clay leaving Zach after the crash, but that got forgotten as chaos progressed and my boy continued his hallucinations including the "And Then There Was Shawn" moment where he faces himself as the killer. 

I knew it was a fucking drill! Especially when the principal said that they'd deal with the gun info after the lockdown. Those fucking bastards! They deserve a lawsuit and criminal charges. Shit, a regular lockdown drill can be traumatic, forget one that goes on this long and has fucking gunshots. I love Clay's outburst! Up to the point where Clay stole the gun from the cop. Who really should be better trained than to have his gun taken from an emotionally unstable teenager. He's lucky Clay didn't actually want to hurt anyone. As much as they're claiming to train the kids, how did that happen?

Alex actor nailed the panic and hallucination of hearing his father. Charlie's a good guy. 

Hey, Brenda Strong directed! Good for her.  

Edited by bettername2come
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Episode 7: "Do you really think that Clay is safer now?" Good point from Jessica and haven't seen her being a good friend to him for a long time, so I was happy to see that.

Seriously, Clay stole a cop from a gun and escaped a mental ward? What the hell is wrong with the security in this town?! HE IS NOT COORDINATED! THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN! 

I liked Clay's explanation to Gary Sinise about why he left and how he's feeling. I'm glad he didn't have to go back to the hospital. 

Damn, Tony, you know Clay just got out of a psych eval, don't drag him into this. And yet at the same time, who else would he ask? They're the guys who save everybody. So of course Clay comes and gives us all a cliffhanger.

Does anybody even do college interviews now?  

 

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I love this season.  I finished it tonight and it's much better than last season because I didn't give a shit who killed Bryce and I didn't give a shit about Monty either.  Two douchebags who won't be missed.

However, this season reminded me of the Black Mirror episode, "White Bear."  To watch something from one perspective and then at the end, realize there's another side to the story. 

Then again, none of this would have happened if Bryce went to jail for raping Jessica and Hannah.  Monty would have been dead regardless, which is a problem I'm having with this season.  Who cares if Monty was framed?  He was killed in jail NOT because he was accused of killing Bryce but because he RAPED Tyler, therefore making him a child rapist.

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Episode 8: Between their Cabin in the Woods ep and this opening scene, I think someone on staff just really wanted to play with genres in this final season. Not shocking that Tyler was an informant working undercover to buy illegal guns. 

It's interesting to see the weird little reverse club meeting to discuss Bryce's death. 

Why did Jessica not take the SAT again at a better time? 

Is this weird PTA meeting actually a secret? Obviously, the crazy tracking stuff, but how is this meeting not public? 

Diego actor did a good job with the fear and anger from racist cop and when he realized Jessica killed Bryce. I loved Jessica and Clay's walkout with zero plan. I'm not surprised the students followed after them between Clay's actions towards the cop following the lockdown and Jessica's activism and being student body president. I love that Justin threw Clay the megaphone when Jessica went down, and that Clay stepped up. 

Damn with the timely protests scenes. 

So Clay really has been blacking out this whole time and doing all this stuff? I'm surprised that he was the one scaring people at the campsite. Especially because I'm confused about how he got out of the hole in the first place.

 

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Episode 6 was intense, especially as an Australian teacher it is something I never have to thing about. Sure we have lockdown drills but a lot of students don't take it seriously because in their mind that stuff doesn't happen in Australia. But I found it quite confronting and emotional when all the kids were ringing there parents and saying goodbye. Even as a student when I experienced a bomb scare, I never felt this is the end. I thought it was a very good episode until it was revealed the Principal had orchestrated it all as a drill. As a staff member I would be furious, especially since fake gunshots and door rattling was involved. I've had plenty of surprise drills in my career, but they've never been that involved. I am glad they had Clay freak out at the end, as I imagine many students would have been feeling like that especially when revealed it was all fake. I thought it was bad enough when Clay was tackled by an officer it was shocking when he got batoned.

Dear Show: No matter how hard you try I will never find true sympathy for Bryce and Monty. Sure you can have Monty say he was scared when he was shanked etc but don't expect me to forgive him for what he put Tyler through. It's not like Monty was killed because he was framed for Bryce's murder. Monty was killed because of his own actions, not the framing by the group. I know the two are all in Clay's head but I still want Clay to point out to Monty that he was killed BECAUSE of Monty's action towards Tyler, not because he was framed.

I am enjoying the greyness to Monty's character, but I struggle to really reconcile his need for justice for Monty. Apart from the football team it doesn't really seem like anyone else cares that Monty is a 'murderer', so why should he.

For a guy who has just discovered (or admitted) his attraction to males, Alex is getting a lot of action. Lucky him. I think Charlie is a better fit for him though unless there is something more to the cookies.

I was a bit disappointed there was a time jump from the car crash, I'm always disappointed when a show has a cliffhanger and then jumps ahead and explains it in a couple of sentences and we are meant to be  'All right thats solved thank you'

14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Wow, high school has changed a lot since I was a student. Our dummies didn't have fake blood or anything and we didn't learn how to triage gunshot wounds. We just had an armless torso to practice CPR on.

I too wonder if this is a show thing or real life thing. All the CPR I've done has been on torsos and no blood. And I was thinking 'Wow, this is what American kids have to go through, that's crazy'

 

14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

But when Zach said that Clay looked like he wasn't even there or that he was somebody else, it reminded me of when Clay said (in the second episode, I think) that he's been losing time. Does he have a dissociative disorder? Is he the one who has been terrifying himself and threatening to tell the truth? That would explain how the email from his account got sent to everyone right before the senior camping trip.

I think you are onto something. I did have to look up the disorder and I feel there are 2 Clays. It's the only thing that makes sense at this stage. The Clay at the party last episode was very much not the Clay we have had the past 3 seasons, so it would make sense. The Clay we know wouldn't have been that cruel to Justin or even that violent. They seemed to be suggesting it's an option with the way the dialogue was when Justin got back from somewhere at midnight. Clay was speaking to Justin and when Justin said the time was midnight, you see Clay almost reawaken and wonder why he was awake. Would the disorder also explain his hallucinations of Bryce, Monty and even Hannah in Season 2?

On a different note, anybody else disappointed with the basic opening credits for this season? I use to enjoy seeing the new little image that appeared giving us a hint about what the episode was about.

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8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I have liked some of this, despite all of the over the top melodrama (as this show officially starts to finally make its transition to Riverdale/Pretty little Liars style insanity)

For me the difference is that PLL fully embraced having everyone do batshit crazy things. That's the way to really make it work. You can't half ass the crazy. But I agree that this season's PLL-ness is definitely helping!

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I love how at Liberty, when your a jock, you just do ALL of the sports, be it basketball, baseball, or football. 

Yeah, I couldn't decide if that was due to the show wanting to make them the jocks of all jocks or if they were trying to accurately portray what it's like to attend a small school where you don't have the huge pool of athletic talent you would at a larger school. I went to a pretty big high school (my freshman class had almost 1000 students) and there were several people who played more than one sport, but it wasn't like Liberty where every guy in a varsity jacket plays three sports.

5 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

Episode 5 finally ditches the 'horror' tropes and returns the ridiculous 'teen drama' tope of a party being in a massive mansion. I swear if I watched this episode from the middle I would have assumed they were partying in a hotel. I liked the parties in the previous season where they were held in a realistic house. I also get taken ut of a TV show or movie when teens have a party in a massive house.

Bryce was suppose to be one of the richest kids in town and even he didn't have a house like the one we saw in this party!

5 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

And thank you @ElectricBoogaloo for explaining the seasons and the links to the school year. I admit that whenever I see a school dance on a TV show I automatically assume it's the end of year prom. 

Movies always make it seem like prom is The Most Important Dance of the Year (and sometimes the only dance of the year) so that's a fair assumption to make. My high school had a lot of dances, but the three fancy ones where you were supposed to dress up and have corsages were homecoming in the fall, winter formal (duh, in the winter), and then prom in the spring. We also had lots of casual dances (meaning people didn't get super dressed up) throughout the year (Sadie Hawkins, sock hop, etc).

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Episode 7: Every season of a TV show has that one episode where I get bored and don't really care about what's happening. This appears to be that episode. Sure there were little moments like Justin dealing with his mum's death but all those college interviews bored me. Maybe cause that's not the standard way Aussie kids get into university.

Did Clay actually clean himself before escaping the facility? He did actually shit himself right? 

16 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My bigger question was why Alex was creeping around Bryce's house in the first place which is what allowed him to see Ani meeting with Mrs. Walker.

Oh was that scene at the Walker house? I thought it was just at some random café/restaurant. Still doesn't explain the creeping though.

Diego has officially been placed on the list of 'Characters I Won't Be Mourning If They Die '. Right underneath Bryce and Monty.

And this Tyler gun plot better be going somewhere because it's boring me. Or maybe it's Tony who is boring. I don't know. All I know is I'm not falling for the shocking cliffhanger in this episode like I did with the car crash. Episode 8 is probably set 1 month later

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2 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

all those college interviews bored me. Maybe cause that's not the standard way Aussie kids get into university.

Despite what American tv shows sometimes portray, that's not the standard way that American kids get into college either! You definitely do NOT need to travel to the university for an interview (to meet with the dean as Justin did at the college where Clay's dad works) and you don't need to interview with a local alumni/recruiter. You don't have to interview at all. Most students just send in the application with their transcripts, SAT scores, etc. and then wait to get an acceptance or rejection letter.

4 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

Did Clay actually clean himself before escaping the facility? He did actually shit himself right? 

That bothered me too. He specifically told the orderly that he shit the bed and I assumed that the guy believed him based on the smell. But then Clay just went into the bathroom and put on his clothes so I was like dude, are you not even going to give yourself a quick rinse to get the shit off of yourself?

In episode 8, Clay's dad says that Clay pissed himself so I don't know if he was trying to give a slightly less gross version of what happened or if that's what the orderly told the hospital or if Clay actually pissed instead (but come on, that still warrants a quick rinse before you put on your clothes!).

 

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4 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Why did Jessica not take the SAT again at a better time?

The SAT is offered on seven specific Saturdays per year, so there may not have been a better time, especially with all the shenanigans.  It sure doesn't leave much time for SAT prep!  Whatever, she's going to Berkeley, so good for her.

Totally called Clay very realistically getting into Brown.  Whatever.

When Winston said he loved Monty, I laughed so hard I had to pause my TV.  Girl, please!  His hallucinating dancing with Monty at prom was also good for a chortle.  Have fun with douchebag Ryan.  You two deserve each other.

Speaking of, it felt weird to have Ryan and Courtney in the finale.  I don't think they needed to be there, I hadn't missed either of them (especially Ryan), and it felt like a record scratch.

I had noticed the scars on Justin's face and body and had wondered if they were Kaposi-sarcoma lesions, and then I thought, "They wouldn't just randomly in the series fucking finale kill off Justin with fucking AIDS."  And then, they did exactly that.  I had a moment of being furious, and then I realized it was the perfect way to end this spectacularly shitty season.  I couldn't even be moved at the very well-acted scenes between Justin and Jessica and Justin and Clay because I was so over it.  And of course, Justin dies tragically, and suddenly everything at Liberty High is fine!  The jocks are cool, Diego's cool, Winston's cool, the police are cool, everybody's cool.  Justin brought peace in death!  Bryce and Monty hurt people, and they were evil, but they were also sympathetic, and hurt people hurt people or something, and now everyone is so fine!

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Also, the finale was interminably long.

After looking at my television for nine episodes like this:

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I spent this last 90+ minutes, looking like this:

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But now it's over, and I feel so...well...

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I'm relieved it's over, but I wish this season had not happened because it was:

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I hope many of the actors on this show find lots of work, though, because most of them really were terrific.

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2 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Despite what American tv shows sometimes portray, that's not the standard way that American kids get into college either! You definitely do NOT need to travel to the university for an interview (to meet with the dean as Justin did at the college where Clay's dad works) and you don't need to interview with a local alumni/recruiter. You don't have to interview at all. Most students just send in the application with their transcripts, SAT scores, etc. and then wait to get an acceptance or rejection letter.

Is it standard practice to write a essay to get into college though? Because in Australia kids normally just sit exams and get a magic number (that no one truly understands how it is obtained) and wait to see if they meet the magic cut off mark. They don't need to talk themselves up in an essay unless its for early admission. And obviously talent based courses require an audition.

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