S03.E06: End of Game

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

As the investigation continues, Carolyn finds out that information is being withheld by those close to her. Eve finds a lead which might bring her closer to Villanelle, but Villanelle has had enough and decides on a different path.

Promo:

Sneak peek:

Original air date: 5/17/20

Edited May 17, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[nameless slob]

Jodie Comer has extremely long fingers. 

That index finger is absurd.

[ams1001]

Irina sure went from "do you think I'm dumb enough to go anywhere with you?" to "running over mom's boyfriend was fun!" real quick...

[stealinghome]

This episode was a mixed bag for me. There was some payoff but it felt more like yet another setup episode, yet there are only 2 episodes left! I think part of my frustration is that the show is losing sight of Villanelle and Eve and their connection. Eve disappeared for like the middle 30 minutes of tonight's episode, and Villanelle was in more but not a ton more, it didn't feel like; their connection has also been fairly marginalized I think. I like Konstantin and Carolyn but I don't watch the show for them and their family dramas, I watch for Eve and Villanelle and their connection. That said, the best scene in the episode was probably Carolyn and Konstantin in the car, because I was convinced for a minute that one of them wasn't getting out of that car alive, and I liked the symmetry of the two car rides (Carolyn and Konstantin's so fraught with a sense that the walls are closing in, and Villanelle and Irina's so freeing for both of them even as Villanelle digs for information on where Konstantin's bolt hole is). Also Konstantin's "You don't have to do this, I already know you're scary!" was the line of the episode.

What they are doing with Villanelle is really interesting, and Dasha's comments about how she molded a younger Villanelle into the assassin we know now help shed light on Villanelle's emotional immaturity. (Konstantin is a much better father figure than Dasha is a mother figure--he knows what's going on in Villanelle's head!) Even back in S1 we got a strong sense that Villanelle was unfulfilled with her life and desperate for human connection, and that's just been kicked into overdrive this season after everything with Eve fell apart spectacularly at the end of S2. She clearly feels things strongly, but equally clearly doesn't have the emotional vocabulary or maturity to really process and understand what is going on inside her. She knows connection will make her happy, but can't manage to connect with anyone. So she's just...flailing around making herself more and more unhappy, and her promotion in place just exacerbated her feeling that no matter what she does, nothing changes. They really are pushing her to the limit. Break V down to build her up again I guess? Or be willing to join up with Eve, whatever Eve wants to do, if Eve wants to disappear? Or burn down The Twelve?

I'm glad that Eve has already twigged that it wasn't Villanelle who went after Niko (who apparently has nine lives like a cat. Will we never be rid of him?). I thought Eve pretty clearly suspected Dasha after their bowling game, and I wouldn't be surprised if Eve REALLY goes after Dasha now.

I too jumped when Creepy Paul spoke out of the darkness in Konstantin's bedroom (and I got a good chuckle out of Konstantin's "people need to stop doing this to me!"). After his conversation with Carolyn--which was also an excellent scene--I wasn't at all surprised to find out he was part of The Twelve, and I actually wish they had dropped that bomb earlier. I would enjoy way more of Carolyn and Paul circling each other and playing each other, each knowing what the other is after but neither revealing their hand. I wonder if he killed Kenny.

I found Carolyn/Geraldine's scenes to be better than they have been, largely because it felt less like a repeat of the same dynamic and more because they are finally making some progress. That said, there is clearly something up with Konstantin and Geraldine and I don't think it's that she has a crush on her mom's ex-boyfriend. Geraldine, secret member of The Twelve? Geraldine, secret murderer of Kenny, is a bridge too far...right? (Or would that explain why he left his phone in his office instead of calling for help/taking it up to the roof?)

That end with Irina was a shocker. Legit didn't see that coming! Konstantin crying was a great touch. This is why you don't let your daughter hang out with Villanelle....

ETA: So it's pretty much confirmed that Konstantin stole the 6 million Euros, right? (Unless THAT is what he and Geraldine are in on together!)

Oh, and I snorted at some of the "place tags" this episode, especially Not Cuba and This Is Bullshit (that was the best!).

Edited May 18, 2020 by stealinghome

[Arkay]

1 hour ago, stealinghome said:

This episode was a mixed bag for me. There was some payoff but it felt more like yet another setup episode, yet there are only 2 episodes left! I think part of my frustration is that the show is losing sight of Villanelle and Eve and their connection. Eve disappeared for like the middle 30 minutes of tonight's episode, and Villanelle was in more but not a ton more, it didn't feel like; their connection has also been fairly marginalized I think. I like Konstantin and Carolyn but I don't watch the show for them and their family dramas, I watch for Eve and Villanelle and their connection. That said, the best scene in the episode was probably Carolyn and Konstantin in the car, because I was convinced for a minute that one of them wasn't getting out of that car alive, and I liked the symmetry of the two car rides (Carolyn and Konstantin's so fraught with a sense that the walls are closing in, and Villanelle and Irina's so freeing for both of them even as Villanelle digs for information on where Konstantin's bolt hole is). Also Konstantin's "You don't have to do this, I already know you're scary!" was the line of the episode.

What they are doing with Villanelle is really interesting, and Dasha's comments about how she molded a younger Villanelle into the assassin we know now help shed light on Villanelle's emotional immaturity. (Konstantin is a much better father figure than Dasha is a mother figure--he knows what's going on in Villanelle's head!) Even back in S1 we got a strong sense that Villanelle was unfulfilled with her life and desperate for human connection, and that's just been kicked into overdrive this season after everything with Eve fell apart spectacularly at the end of S2. She clearly feels things strongly, but equally clearly doesn't have the emotional vocabulary or maturity to really process and understand what is going on inside her. She knows connection will make her happy, but can't manage to connect with anyone. So she's just...flailing around making herself more and more unhappy, and her promotion in place just exacerbated her feeling that no matter what she does, nothing changes. They really are pushing her to the limit. Break V down to build her up again I guess? Or be willing to join up with Eve, whatever Eve wants to do, if Eve wants to disappear? Or burn down The Twelve?

I'm glad that Eve has already twigged that it wasn't Villanelle who went after Niko (who apparently has nine lives like a cat. Will we never be rid of him?). I thought Eve pretty clearly suspected Dasha after their bowling game, and I wouldn't be surprised if Eve REALLY goes after Dasha now.

I too jumped when Creepy Paul spoke out of the darkness in Konstantin's bedroom (and I got a good chuckle out of Konstantin's "people need to stop doing this to me!"). After his conversation with Carolyn--which was also an excellent scene--I wasn't at all surprised to find out he was part of The Twelve, and I actually wish they had dropped that bomb earlier. I would enjoy way more of Carolyn and Paul circling each other and playing each other, each knowing what the other is after but neither revealing their hand. I wonder if he killed Kenny.

I found Carolyn/Geraldine's scenes to be better than they have been, largely because it felt less like a repeat of the same dynamic and more because they are finally making some progress. That said, there is clearly something up with Konstantin and Geraldine and I don't think it's that she has a crush on her mom's ex-boyfriend. Geraldine, secret member of The Twelve? Geraldine, secret murderer of Kenny, is a bridge too far...right? (Or would that explain why he left his phone in his office instead of calling for help/taking it up to the roof?)

That end with Irina was a shocker. Legit didn't see that coming! Konstantin crying was a great touch. This is why you don't let your daughter hang out with Villanelle....

ETA: So it's pretty much confirmed that Konstantin stole the 6 million Euros, right? (Unless THAT is what he and Geraldine are in on together!)

Oh, and I snorted at some of the "place tags" this episode, especially Not Cuba and This Is Bullshit (that was the best!).

Some interesting speculation here. I, too, was wondering if Geraldine was sent by The Twelve. Just because she's lying  to Carolyn about Konstantin, who's in cahoots with Paul, who's also lying to Carolyn.

That last scene with Irina. Wow. Looks like Dasha's mentoring is carrying on through Villanelle, who now has her own protegé in Irina. The way Irina was grinning had the soulless mirth of the true sociopath. Konstantin is my favorite character, though, so I hope neither of his "daughters" decides to eventually kill him. Carolyn may, though.

Poor Kenny. Never got closure about his father.

I'm sure Eve suspects Dasha as the one who stuck a fork in her husband. He's only done with Eve, though; not with life. Now Eve just has to recognize Dasha's motive for trying to kill Niko and shifting the suspicion onto Villanelle. 

 

 

[lidarose9]

1minute 52 seconds in -- I am completely losing my mind over Niko in the hospital. I have literally thrown my hands up in the air and exclaimed loudly: "OH FOR FUCKS SAKE COME ON!" I cannot possibly take this seriously. WTF. Apart from the scientific implausibility, there's also the fact that prolonging this guy's life amounts to TORTURE. Jesus. Let him die, for fuck's sake.

 AND

he was in the middle of Butt-fucking Nowhere Poland, yet somehow doesn't bleed out laying there in the farmyard? What, they had 9-1-1 medics near at hand? They airlifted him back to London? I mean... This is just... I'm speechless. Almost.

[rur]

What I thought when he showed up onscreen:  "He's the show's cockroach."

[enoughcats]

10 hours ago, stealinghome said:

"You don't have to do this, I already know you're scary!" was the line of the episode.

That was a good line, but I'd give line of the episode to the voice synthesizer's three words to Eve as fastest horse out of the gate. Three words, two short, and the third took a lot longer to type, but was worth his effort.

[ams1001]

I wonder if Konstantin found his wallet...

11 hours ago, stealinghome said:

especially Not Cuba

"NOT CUBA" made me lol.

Then I wondered if V really tricked Irina into revealing where they were going or if she was lying to throw V off. Maybe it's not even a Spanish-speaking country.

[dubbel zout]

2 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Then I wondered if V really tricked Irina into revealing where they were going or if she was lying to throw V off. Maybe it's not even a Spanish-speaking country.

Same here. Irina isn't completely stupid.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Niko telling Eve to piss off forever in that robotic computer voice had me howling with laughter. I know you can't just make yourself stop loving someone but hopefully Eve will respect his wishes and leave him alone.

Irina isn't stupid, but she's only 14 and she was distracted with the fun of driving so I think she slipped when she mentioned Cuba. I loved when she told Villanelle that she'd old and that not everyone waxes everything anymore. I remember when Mr. EB's sister (who was about the same age as Irina) said that something was for "old old old old old old people" (yes, it was definitely six olds because we still quote her exactly).

Interesting that Konstantin admitted that he didn't know if he was Kenny's father but Carolyn neither confirmed nor denied it. It made me sad to think that Kenny would rather ask Konstantin about his parentage instead of asking Carolyn. I cracked up that Konstantin kept his calm for most of the drive and told her that it was unnecessary for her to resort to these kinds of tactics because he already knew she was scary.

We already knew Paul was keeping info from Carolyn but now he's definitely part of the Twelve which is less surprising than the show probably wants it to be.

Hilarious when Dasha asked if Eve was there to ask about her gold medals and Eve replied, "I thought they were bronze." I'm glad that Eve already knows that Villanelle isn't the one who pitchforked Niko. 

Dasha may have trained Villanelle to become the assassin she is today, but she doesn't know Villanelle the way that Konstantin does and she certainly doesn't care about Villanelle the way that Konstantin does. Konstantin genuinely hoped that sending Villanelle to see her mother would result in some emotional growth. I think he was overly optimistic and he underestimated her emotional immaturity.

Oh, Villanelle, do you really think there's a cushy assassin retirement community? And let's just say for a second that she was able to get out from the Twelve. What would she do for money? She's impulsive and she likes nice things so I doubt she's the kind of fiscally responsible person who puts away 20% of her salary for retirement.  

And sheesh, I never went to assassin training school but even I know not to leave behind anything with my DNA on it. She dropped the scissors with her blood on it right next to the chair so that's going to come back to bite her in the ass. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[MicheleinPhilly]

I actually fell asleep during this episode which has literally never happened before. But even on re-watch I can see why I did. 

I miss Eve. I miss her cat and mouse with Villanelle. I miss her with anyone other than the Bitter Pill guys. I just miss her. Please bring her back to me, show. 

I am so beyond over Geraldine. At this point I don't even care if she is a part of The Twelve or working with Konstantin, I just find her to be an irritant that takes away from screen time that could be better spent on Eve and Villanelle. I find her to be whiny and annoying and I really don't care what role she will inevitably be revealed to be playing in all of this. 

Curious as to what Villanelle thinks is awaiting her beyond the assassin life but think it's another brilliant bit of characterization for her as it further hints at her craving for "normalcy." 

Seriously hoping Eve pitchforks Dasha and leaves a note saying, "Unlike you, I can finish the job, bitch." 

[dubbel zout]

29 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Niko telling Eve to piss off forever in that robotic computer voice had me howling with laughter. 

Same, and I also loved the chyron emphasis, in case we might miss what Niko was saying. Hee.

I feel like the past two seasons have had a lot of really good individual scenes, but the overall story has gotten a bit lost. Plot is dribbled out so s l o w l y.

[tennisgurl]

Holy crap, of all the crazy stuff that has happened on this show, I am just shook by the fact that Niko survived a pitchfork to the neck! And in the middle of nowhere Poland where it would presumably take a minute to get to a hospital! 

Poor Kenny, it really sucks that not only did he die before getting any closure about his father, but that he didn't feel comfortable asking Carolyn. And Kenny was the kid that Carolyn was actually close with, or as close as Carolyn gets with anyone. I thought the chat between her and Geraldine was their best so far, and I think I could really "get" their dynamic a bit more. Of course, now we also know that Geraldine has a thing for Konstantin, which is also icky, considering the age difference and the fact that he is one of her moms ex boyfriends, and now the possibility that he could be her brothers bio dad. Konstantin admitted he didn't know if he was Kenny's dad, so who knows. 

Villanelle wanting to actually retire, not out of boredom or annoyance but just because she wants something normal, is really interesting. I think that the encounter with her family has awakened that part of her that longs to feel like normal people do, which has often gone dormant, and its causing her to make bad choices in her assassinations and continue to try and find some normal people feelings. Villanells inability to deal with emotions more complex than "that annoys me" or "that holds my interest for a second" are always some of my favorite parts of the show, so I am finding this really interesting. 

I think that Eve pretty much definitely knows that Villanelle didn't kill Niko, it just didn't have her very specific kind of flair. 

This season has been a weird one, I mostly like it more than last season (as much as I miss Kenny) but it seems really disjointed. It has a lot of scenes and moments and even arcs that I like a lot, that recapture what made season one special, but its just struggling to really come together as a full story. 

Not Cuba was hilarious. 

[stealinghome]

1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

Of course, now we also know that Geraldine has a thing for Konstantin, which is also icky, considering the age difference and the fact that he is one of her moms ex boyfriends, and now the possibility that he could be her brothers bio dad. Konstantin admitted he didn't know if he was Kenny's dad, so who knows. 
...

This season has been a weird one, I mostly like it more than last season (as much as I miss Kenny) but it seems really disjointed. It has a lot of scenes and moments and even arcs that I like a lot, that recapture what made season one special, but its just struggling to really come together as a full story. 

Kenny’s query to Konstantin coupled with Geraldine kissing Konstantin is also icky because if Konstantin was potentially Kenny’s father, wouldn’t that mean he could also potentially be Geraldine’s?!?! Squick ahoy.

I agree with  @tennisgurl’s assessment of this season. On the whole I like it better than last season, as I think it has a clearer sense of what it wants to do and be, more interesting themes/character work, and is better plotted. But for some reason it feels like it’s struggling to get out of first gear and for everything to fire on all cylinders. I don’t know if the issue is that what has become the narrative driver (the 6 million Euros stolen from The Twelve) is really Konstantin’s story so Eve and Villanelle are decentered from their own show, too many characters ascending to basically lead status (Konstantin and especially Carolyn have really surged to the forefront and Dasha has also been in the mix), the relative marginalization of Eve in the last 2 episodes, too many mysteries (who killed Kenny/who stole the 6 million Euros/now for Eve who pitchforked Niko) or what, but it still feels very fragmented in a moment when the plot lines should be converging and gathering steam.

Also I’ve noticed that Konstantin keeps putting his hand to his heart when he is startled (and I’m pretty sure he told Villanelle being startled is bad for his heart). I still kind of feel like the death anvils are falling all around him and think it would be ironic if what does him in at the end of the day is a simple heart attack. Also, assuming it was Konstantin who stole the 6 million Euros, I hope the show delves into his thought process a little more. I get that he wants out, but surely he is smart enough to know the T12 would notice the missing money and be absolutely determined to track down who took it? that seems like a bad call from a character that ought to be smarter than that.

[MicheleinPhilly]

23 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

Kenny’s query to Konstantin coupled with Geraldine kissing Konstantin is also icky because if Konstantin was potentially Kenny’s father, wouldn’t that mean he could also potentially be Geraldine’s?!?! Squick ahoy.

 

Wait, when did we learn that Geraldine kissed Konstantin? See this is why I fell asleep - self-preservation! #gross

[cardigirl]

Well, I should have said it last week, because of course, it has no impact this week, but I didn't think Nico was dead last week. Part of me thought, are they really going to start burning through the cast like that? And then I read articles about his death and I read the discussion here, and I thought, okay, I guess he DID die.  So, color me somewhat pleased to see that I was right to be suspicious of his death.  And also, frustrated with Eve that she cannot see that she's the biggest threat to his life and she should just leave the poor guy the hell alone. Ha!

I liked this episode, especially the line where Konstantin tells Villanelle that every mother deserves it but you're not supposed to DO it.  Pretty good stuff this round. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by cardigirl

[ams1001]

34 minutes ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

Wait, when did we learn that Geraldine kissed Konstantin? See this is why I fell asleep - self-preservation! #gross

Konstantin told Carolyn that. (I think just before their little road trip? Don't quote me on that.)

Edited May 18, 2020 by ams1001

[TVbitch]

With so few episodes left, this episode was a bit of a disappointment to me. Eve learns about the banker's wife's murder and about Dasha, so she knows it was not V who hurt Niko, but we were robbed of getting to see the days after the incident where she likely did think it was V. She was also back in stone cold Eve mode and did not show any remorse or emotion toward Niko.

THEN she let Dasha know Niko is STILL ALIVE!! Excellent work, Eve! You know how the 12 hate leaving loose ends! 

So, is Konstantin both Irina and V's dad? He cried cuz he spawned 2 sociopaths? I didn't really buy Irina's sudden transition to murderer after a few high speed donuts with V. And I don't like the character enough to have her become a big part of the story. 

I'm starting to care less about Carolyn, too. I appreciate the honesty she shared with Geraldine (finally!) but then she went right back to being a bitch to her. You can be aloof and distant without actively being an asshole to people. 

This is the first time I'm afraid the show is going to go down a path that might ruin it for me. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by TVbitch

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, stealinghome said:

Also I’ve noticed that Konstantin keeps putting his hand to his heart when he is startled (and I’m pretty sure he told Villanelle being startled is bad for his heart).

I feel like they are really foreshadowing something like that happening. After all of his scheming and wheeling and dealing and years of espionage, Konstantin goes out with a heart attack. Of course, if I spent years as Villanells handler, I would probably be having heart problems as well!

[cardigirl]

10 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

With so few episodes left, this episode was a bit of a disappointment to me. Eve learns about the banker's wife's murder and about Dasha, so she knows it was not Eve who hurt Niko, but we were robbed of getting to see the days after the incident where she likely did think it was V. She was also back in stone cold Eve mode and did not show any remorse or emotion toward Niko.

I thought she showed much emotion.  She was very eager to see him and so happy he was awake (for once) when she was first at the hospital until his (father?) said his little speech to her about warning Niko not to marry her.  And then Niko told her to PISS OFF.  She's going after whoever tried to kill him, because they aren't supposed to touch him.  And that's how she knew it wasn't Villanelle.  

But yeah, I don't think it was smart telling Dasha he's is still alive. Niko's worst enemy is Eve's love for him.  

[Pj3422]

Niko’s part cockroach, isn’t he?

[kieyra]

I haven't seen the episode yet but I just accidentally spoiled myself with this thread. (No one's fault but my own.) HOW THE FUCK IS HE NOT DEAD.

Oh well, I guess I'll watch the episode and then come back and type about it in all caps some more. 

[enoughcats]

I think this is a season that we'll enjoy more when we watch the DVD.  It won't have ads sandwiched in damn near everywhere.  And some of the ads have shots from the show and others have the wretched omitted scenes....like (shudder) Dascha doing part of a stretching routine before bowling.  I so didn't need to pay attention to that flexibility scarecrow. 

I think I preferred Vil.'s version of "Leave it to Beaver" (a brief inserted homage to Edie Haskle who should have met Vil. in a nightmare somewhere/

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

I think this is a season that we'll enjoy more when we watch the DVD.  It won't have ads sandwiched in damn near everywhere.  And some of the ads have shots from the show and others have the wretched omitted scenes....like (shudder) Dascha doing part of a stretching routine before bowling.  I so didn't need to pay attention to that flexibility scarecrow. 

I think I preferred Vil.'s version of "Leave it to Beaver" (a brief inserted homage to Edie Haskle who should have met Vil. in a nightmare somewhere/

I could watch Dame Harriet Walter all day long.  She's excellent in this role. She's also (recently) been in Succession and I loved her in that as well. 

[enoughcats]

I don't know much of Dame Walter's work. I'm not sure what we're supposed to be seeing of her past in her character.   Would she have left Eve's husband injured or was that a sign she had lost some of her going for the total kill-skill?  

[kieyra]

Ok, I still don’t understand why the hell Niko is alive, both medically and plot-wise. Moving on.

I’ll watch Gemma Whelan in anything, so I love her scenes with Carolyn. It never occurred to me that she could be could be anything other than she appears. I wonder if we’ll ever even see what became of that conversation, though, since this show tends to drop threads quickly. 

Which brings me to ... yeah, it feels more like a series of vignettes than a season-long arc. I don’t miss Eve when she’s gone. I’ll watch Villanelle pretty much forever, but (and I feel like I’ve been typing this as long as the show has been on), I hope they’re not trying to sell me a redemption/cured sociopath arc for her. She’s tearing up an awful lot lately. 

Irina?! I don’t know. She and V are fun to watch but I didn’t need to see her flip over into cold blooded murder. Konstantin and Carolyn really are, respectively, the worst parents ever. 

[TimWil]

23 hours ago, stealinghome said:

 

I found Carolyn/Geraldine's scenes to be better than they have been, largely because it felt less like a repeat of the same dynamic and more because they are finally making some progress. That said, there is clearly something up with Konstantin and Geraldine and I don't think it's that she has a crush on her mom's ex-boyfriend. Geraldine, secret member of The Twelve? Geraldine, secret murderer of Kenny, is a bridge too far...right? (Or would that explain why he left his phone in his office instead of calling for help/taking it up to the roof?)

 

Ahhhh, I do think you might be on to something with this theory. Ever see the film The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie?  Where the mousy young student Sandy manages to not only sleep with Miss Brodie’s fella but also ends up destroying her career? And Miss Brodie learns to her cost how foolish she was to have underestimated Sandy. In the final scene she cries out “ASSASSIN!” as Sandy coldly walks away from her. Ironic, huh? I totally think Geraldine killed Kenny now. Or was somehow instrumental in his death via some sort of “business arrangement” with Paul and The Twelve.

It’s often the quiet ones.

Edited May 19, 2020 by TimWil

[CrazyInAlabama]

I hope the Niko scene was the end of his character, I've been sick of him since season 2.     I liked the Carolyn/Geraldine scene.     Irina is definitely Konstantin's kid, isn't she?    

[ElectricBoogaloo]

17 hours ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

Wait, when did we learn that Geraldine kissed Konstantin? See this is why I fell asleep - self-preservation! #gross

 

17 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Konstantin told Carolyn that. (I think just before their little road trip? Don't quote me on that.)

It was revealed during their drive. 

Carolyn: What did you want with my child?
Konstantin: I swear, I tried nothing. She kissed me!
Carolyn: Geraldine kissed you?

[MicheleinPhilly]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

It was revealed during their drive. 

Carolyn: What did you want with my child?
Konstantin: I swear, I tried nothing. She kissed me!
Carolyn: Geraldine kissed you?

I re-watched and was still not prepared for how much that grossed me out. The MUCH more interesting aspect of that conversation IMO was Kenny wondering if Konstantin was his father because frankly that idea had never occurred to me. 

[MicheleinPhilly]

15 hours ago, kieyra said:

 

Irina?! I don’t know. She and V are fun to watch but I didn’t need to see her flip over into cold blooded murder. Konstantin and Carolyn really are, respectively, the worst parents ever. 

That just seemed like a ridiculous plot point for shock value. On the one hand I can see how it would happen - Irina hates that her father dotes on Villanelle and seems to spend more time caring for her than for Irina - but it also didn't help that Irina was missing for so much of the series so we never got to see her devolution into little psycho. 

Not saying that I want to see that - I think the show is beginning to get crushed under the weight of all of these ancillary characters but it just seemed to come out of left field and not in a good way like Kenny's murder. (Not saying Kenny's murder was a good thing just that it was integral to the story.) 

[marny]

This season has been so blah. Half the time I’m not even sure what anyone is talking about. This show is much more interesting when there’s the cat and mouse dynamic. And why are they still bothering with Niko? No one cares about him. Not even Eve, frankly. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by marny

[roughing it]

8 minutes ago, marny said:

Half the time I’m not even sure what anyone is talking about.

And again, with the background music so distractingly loud you can't hear/understand the conversation.

[Ohwell]

I haven't watched every episode, so why do people hate Niko so much?  What did he do?

[Milburn Stone]

I loved Carolyn's honesty with Geraldine. It was the kindest thing she could do.

Dasha makes me think of Rosa Klebb.

[stealinghome]

2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I haven't watched every episode, so why do people hate Niko so much?  What did he do?

The show ran out of story for Niko by the end of S1, but insisted on focusing on him even more in S2 while replaying the same story from S1. 

[kieyra]

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I haven't watched every episode, so why do people hate Niko so much?  What did he do?

Eve is already bored with him and entranced by Villanelle by *the pilot*. She chooses her career and V over him time and time again, only occasionally stopping to weep a few crocodile tears before putting him in mortal danger again.

Eve is already one of my least favorite characters on the show. If she doesn’t care about her husband, and he’s not interacting with the other leads, what is he doing on the show?

I don’t “hate” him, and he would actually be a compelling character on some other series. He just serves no purpose on this one. 

[Ohwell]

Thanks.  Sounds like he's much better off without Eve and I hope she leaves him alone from now on.

[kieyra]

5 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Thanks.  Sounds like he's much better off without Eve and I hope she leaves him alone from now on.

Heck, I wanted him to live a happy life with the dark-haired fellow teacher that V murdered last season ...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Villanelle & Irina's Joy Ride

 

[seacliffsal]

I don't think Eve loves Niko-I think she feels guilty and that's what keeps drawing her back to him.  There's a part of her that thinks she SHOULD love someone like him and then is guilty about her fascination with Villanelle-a known assassin.  But Eve's guilt keeps putting Niko into ever more present danger which only intensifies her guilt.

I didn't get why Eve went bowling with Dasha and then just left Barcelona.  I don't find Eve an effective agent/detective/whatever and haven't since the series first began.  It seems like she stumbles into information rather than finds information.  I find her extremely boring this season.   Wake up!  Do something!

During this episode I felt like the show, once again, was going for "moments" rather than story.  And, like a poster above noted, there's too much focus on minor characters.  Having written that though, I would watch a show based on the madcap adventures of Villanelle and Irina.

[MicheleinPhilly]

14 hours ago, kieyra said:

Heck, I wanted him to live a happy life with the dark-haired fellow teacher that V murdered last season ...

Oh gosh, I found her to be SUPREMELY annoying - NEEEEEEKOOOO! - but I too wish that they had just let him be. Show them talking at the facility and him telling Eve that he deserves more than her and then let him be. 

[Rickster]

6 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

  And, like a poster above noted, there's too much focus on minor characters. 

I think part of the problem with this show for me is that I’m much more interested in the minor characters than the two major characters.

[catrice2]

On 5/20/2020 at 3:19 PM, Ohwell said:

I haven't watched every episode, so why do people hate Niko so much?  What did he do?

Nothing. That's just the problem. He was a bland husband with nothing to do.  He actually was very nice and patient with Eve and she was frustrated with him because she was realizing her life was unfulfilled.  People resent the air time he gets because they never gave him a story.  Other people just want Eve and V together so much they find him annoying.  It is just that they give screen time to a character that has no real purpose.  The fact that he is an unattractive boy next door type doesn't help.   I say all this and I am not one that minds Nico, ha ha 

I think they keep him around as sort of a tie to her old life for Eve before she totally goes over to the "dark" side. 

[catrice2]

2 hours ago, Rickster said:

I think part of the problem with this show for me is that I’m much more interested in the minor characters than the two major characters.

I am right behind you. I am with the other poster, I did not focus enough to figure out what was happening last episode, and I have no interest in going back to find out.   I just came here to have it confirmed for me. I  saw bits and pieces and those were extremely boring to me.  The show was best when Eve was hunting V especially after the emotional loss of Bill.  When they started with the sexual tension and Eve's bungling field adventures it took a turn....and has never recovered.  I barely remember last season....Have they even shown Eve dealing with the fact that she killed that man even though V manipulated her into it?  Or does the show end with them happily together and killing people?  At this point their is no redemption for V so the only thing would be to make Eve like her so that she can accept her actions.. 

Imagine if they had written a show with the core group still together and hunting V?  Bill was interesting, as was Kenny and Kirby Howell.  Eve could have just as easily been a single spinster with nothing but a cat...Nico wasn't needed to just make his character so pointless.  I actually like Nico...he is too good for Eve...of course without the needed backstory I can only go by what I saw..

Edited May 21, 2020 by catrice2

[catrice2]

8 hours ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

Oh gosh, I found her to be SUPREMELY annoying - NEEEEEEKOOOO! - but I too wish that they had just let him be. Show them talking at the facility and him telling Eve that he deserves more than her and then let him be. 

Yes really the stabbing of Nico is one of the final things that made me inch closer to the door...and I was one of the biggest fans the first season. After the whole kidnapping and plastic bag thing and after Eve killed someone and all but admitted to V her sexual interest...why bother to wound him? It is clear Eve doesn't care about him so what is the point?   He has been wounded enough by being in a relationship with her.  If this is "dark" humor it is dark humor we could have done without. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by catrice2

[slf]

Was I the only one that thought there was something going on with Carolyn and the knife? Like Geraldine was eyeing it and Carolyn was all oooof oooooh about her wound but the second she got Geraldine over there to tend to her hand and drop her guard she flipped the conversation around and nailed her daughter. And then just walked away fine all, "let me know when dinner's ready". I'm not sure but part of me thinks that not only is there a lot more to Geraldine but that Carolyn suspects/knows that it's bad. Maybe Geraldine killed Kenny or is working with The Twelve.

Oh, Konstantin. You thought you could be a killer who handles killers and still have a normal family life and raise a normal daughter. I didn't think it was out of character for Irina to kill her stepfather simply because they haven't shown before if she's moral or not. She's clearly been more than aware of what her father and Villanelle are and yet mostly just seems annoyed that her role as Konstantin's daughter was challenged.

[tvfanatic13]

It only took 6 episodes but finally one I liked and felt compelling to me. Love Irina. 

[catrice2]

Well I forgot this was even on tonight...that says a lot