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COVID-19: Personal Stories

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I found out something that I'm so happy about.    I get Angel Soft toilet paper, and have the wall holders.    I use the double rolls when I can find them, but for months almost all of the stores have Mega (bigger than Jumbo, way bigger than Double rolls).  So unless I want to use the plastic extenders, or get a big floor stand toilet paper holder, I had to rely on the huge stack of TP I bought before this pandemic started.  (I used to live 20 miles out of town, so I stockpile a few basics).     I found today that the Jumbo rolls that a lot of stores have fit in the wall holders.   So it might be like that for other brands if anyone gets short of supplies, and the stores have Jumbo.   So now I can get regular, double, or Jumbo.   

I never thought I'd be happy about finding out I can use another size toilet paper.   I'm really surprised that with multiple Walmarts, regional grocery stores, and a lot of other shopping options in my town, that people have to travel here from surrounding towns, because their stores ran out of something.   

The two huge hospitals in my town (lower Alabama) are full of seriously ill people, and that's awful.    I really wonder if people will ever take this seriously here?    There are so many with the masks around their neck, or their nose uncovered. 

The one amusing thing is watching the Snow Birds going back south to Florida for the winter.   They can only drive straight through here, because their RVs, and huge trailers are so big they can't turn sharply, and can only stop at truck stops for gas, or other stations that have huge turn amounts of maneuvering room.    (It's about 15 miles from my driveway to the Florida Panhandle).     I'm wondering how many of them are spreading infections, and I'm glad they mostly go right through town without stopping.    

I'm really hoping that people locally are sensible, and don't have the usual huge Thanksgiving gatherings that are fairly common here, and cause another surge locally.    Two of my neighbors are nurses at the trauma center, and I barely see them, because they've been working such long hours, and for months on end.      Of course, they're also limiting their exposure to others too, when they can. 

 I'm still surprised at the numbers of shoppers I see with masks around their neck, or no masks at all.       It floors me that some of the maskless ones are wearing scrubs, and have the name of the two huge hospitals in my town.  

 

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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I always have tp on a wall holder, but hardly ever use it. Many years ago I started putting extra rolls of tp in pretty baskets by the toilet. No holder required and fits any size.

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18 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

So now I can get regular, double, or Jumbo.   

Aw, finding joy in the little things.....

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2 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

found out something that I'm so happy about.    I get Angel Soft toilet paper, and have the wall holders.    I use the double rolls when I can find them, but for months almost all of the stores have Mega (bigger than Jumbo, way bigger than Double rolls).  So unless I want to use the plastic extenders, or get a big floor stand toilet paper holder, I had to rely on the huge stack of TP I bought before this pandemic started.  (I used to live 20 miles out of town, so I stockpile a few basics).     I found today that the Jumbo rolls that a lot of stores have fit in the wall holders.   So it might be like that for other brands if anyone gets short of supplies, and the stores have Jumbo.   So now I can get regular, double, or Jumbo.   

I hadn’t even realized that was a problem. I’ve occasionally gotten varieties of tp that are a little too thick for the holder, but I just leave them on the shelf for a day or two until we’ve used enough that it fits. 

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On 11/20/2020 at 12:40 PM, Mountainair said:

There will be 16 of us. Our mandate is 10 people at indoor gatherings. I’m actually surprised my sister in law is hosting because she tends to be pretty rigid regarding COVID precautions. My immediate family is not (obviously) so we would have just had Thanksgiving with my family had this not worked out. Judge away 🙂

Where I am we’re not even allowed to have indoor gatherings this Thanksgiving. I usually try and follow the guidelines but that’s not happening this time. 

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@Bastet, so sorry for your loss.  I took a break from this thread because it sometimes gets too much for me emotionally.  Every time I hear of someone's illness and death it goes right through me as I'm still grieving my own father's Covid death.

Here in CT the cases per 100,000 have risen dramatically in the last two weeks.  They've risen so much that it is much higher than it was even when we had stay at home orders last Spring.  So this week my husband and I have abruptly stopped going into stores and have put ourselves in a mostly quarantined state.  We are only going to go out for rides, curbside pickups, getting gas, and for walks.  We did our first Instacart order in a couple of months a few days ago too.  We are resigned to being mostly confined for the rest of the holiday season and the Winter.  We are fortunate not to have any family that would invite us anywhere.  Thankfully my SIL in Middletown, NY knows better than to have Thanksgiving with the family as her husband has cancer and is undergoing chemo., plus he is almost 70 and a diabetic to boot.  At this point even her kids aren't getting together with them.

My town is right now one of only 11 in CT that are not considered in the "red zone", meaning in excess of 15 new cases per 100,000 per week, but we are surrounded and I am sure that pretty soon we will all be in the red zone.  We have never even been in the orange zone before this.  I feel like people got used to feeling more relaxed over the summer and are not paying attention to what is going on out there, and of course are not willing to scale back without being told they have to.  So far our governor has been reticent to do that.  I think he is following NY and NJ's lead but they are not yet experiencing the same rate of cases we are.  He says he doesn't intend to put us back into a shut down, but I don't see how he is going to avoid some shut downs given the reality of what is going on.  If we don't do something it's going to get out of control and not end well.  I think he wants to only shut certain things down and leave others open - OK, but even that has yet to happen other than making restaurants close by 10:00 p.m. (bars have never been reopened).  

1 hour ago, theredhead77 said:

I am appalled at the astounding number if people ignoring the CDC request to just stay home this Thanksgiving. I'd love to not be spending it completely alone, like I've spent most of the last 8 months but I love not being sick or infecting others more.

The images coming from airports and people just planning to gather because YOLO are just making things worse. It's going to be a dark, sad, lonely winter. Thanksgiving is going to be one huge super spreader event.

First, and hopefully last Thanksgiving alone. I'm not looking forward to it. But it's the responsible thing to do. I'm always alone on Christmas so that doesn't bother me, as much. 

I hear you, I feel exactly the same.  It astounds me how people can't make a small short-term sacrifice to prevent giving and getting the disease.  Like duh, if you want to see grandpa next year, maybe sit this one out.  It's not rocket science. I don't know if most of these people even know what a super spreader event is.  Probably not.  And sadly, even if they read about I wonder how many would fully understand the concept.  I hate to say things like that about people, but it's becoming very obvious that a large percentage of people either can't figure this stuff out or are also in some sort of denial and don't want to face the reality.

I hate to say this, but I am feeling like a large percentage of people these days have gone completely off the deep end in a few ways.  I was suspecting that a significant number of people were getting nuttier, more socially irresponsible, more susceptible to accepting hogwash, and more morally vacant for a long time, but I didn't want to give in to thinking that way because I didn't want to be called an "intellectual and moral snob" and be accused of insulting people.  But it's getting harder and harder for me not to just admit it to myself and accept whatever criticism I get for it.

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My family did Zoom Easter this year and now I'm in charge of arranging Zoom Thanksgiving. It's bizarre that COVID has brought this about because we've never celebrated holidays together, really, because we're spread across 4 states now. So any other year, we'd all go about our separate Thanksgiving plans and just text Happy Thanksgiving to each other, but with COVID suddenly we want to celebrate together remotely. Well, some of us do...I got everyone on board for Easter but haven't started the round up for Thursday yet.

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I will only see my parents this Thanksgiving if the weather cooperates.  And if the weather cooperates, I'll drive 2.5 hours, spend maybe an hour with them, outside, far apart and masked, then drive 2.5 hours back home.  I will not enter their house, and if we decide that eating "together" is an option, I'll take my own plate and utensils.  And card table and chair.  If the weather does not cooperate, I'll stay home.  And I do this for them.  In the before times, I'd have stayed a few days, but nope.  Not this year.  

Christmas will probably be much the same, though less likely because of the weather.

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Normally my mom and I go visit my aunt and uncle for Thanksgiving, and many of my cousins and their families come in, too.

We're not doing that this year. Some of my relatives live in states that are doing heavy duty lockdowns, so they wouldn't be able to come even if they wanted to. Plus, given my aunt and uncle are high risk given their ages and some of the health issues they've had in the past...yeah. That's more than enough reason to not go right there. 

And my sister lives in Pennsylvania, so we won't be seeing her, either. We'll all probably just call each other on Thanksgiving to say happy holidays and leave it at that. I'm actually kind of looking forward to a quiet Thanksgiving at home for a change. 

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Inexplicably, my mother's LTCF has begun in-person visitation again.  This after having 17 residents and 6 employees test positive, and 3 residents hospitalized prior to death from COVID, all from mid-October through mid-November.  Prior to that, they had zero cases from the beginning of the madness in March.  Granted it has been 14 days or longer since then, but our county has ramped significantly in "cases" (positive tests?), and we are barraged daily with "the hospital is full!" stories, and at least three times daily with "the hospitals are looking for refrigerated trucks" story.  

I'm incapable of understanding why a LTCF would want to invite trouble (imo).  I am aware of the fragility of these folks' psyches, and the ill effects of isolation, but seems a bit more time is called for here.  I discussed it with Mom, and she is on board, thankfully.

Hubs and I will be dining on traditional fare this year, just the two of us, and I can say with great confidence that hubs will be the happiest he's been in years, not having to watch me dole out leftovers to family in take-home containers.  All leftovers for him!  👏👩‍🍳

Edited by SuprSuprElevated
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I simply do not understand why it's so hard to make that one sacrifice once. Just to make sure that your elderly parents/grandparent might actually be around for the next Thanksgiving or Christmas. I just don't get it. 

Never even mind the poor healthcare workers who are exhausted and at the limit. If they all get sick, then what are people going to do? 

When has that simple rationality gone out the window? 

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22 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

I will only see my parents this Thanksgiving if the weather cooperates.  And if the weather cooperates, I'll drive 2.5 hours, spend maybe an hour with them, outside, far apart and masked, then drive 2.5 hours back home.  I will not enter their house, and if we decide that eating "together" is an option, I'll take my own plate and utensils.  And card table and chair.  If the weather does not cooperate, I'll stay home.  And I do this for them.  In the before times, I'd have stayed a few days, but nope.  Not this year.  

Christmas will probably be much the same, though less likely because of the weather.

This is sensible and reasonable.
But I am too far away to do anything like @Browncoat’s outdoor day trip feast. 

Instead, I will skip the holiday gatherings, but do plan to move across country in January to be close to at least one child and closer to another —which doesn’t sound sensible to me right now, and is totally stressing me out (as if moving isn’t already stressful enough).

Someone had a life-size cardboard cutout of themselves made to send to their parents for the holidays, which I think is charming and will amuse her parents. But the parents have each other to hug, and I live alone, which, at least in my case means I have a much lower hug-quotient-need than the Average Bear, but it’s been 9 months, and that hug wasn’t from my huggiest daughter. (The huggiest daughter is also the only married one, which makes sense to me.)
But I’m moving in January instead of later not because I can’t wait for hugs, but because my daughter found a kind of rare unicorn of a rental for me that’s available now, and it’s too expensive to just rent empty. IDK. Maybe I could afford to let it sit empty for a month and move in February. It would be sort of an expensive vacation to nowhere. 

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9 minutes ago, supposebly said:

I simply do not understand why it's so hard to make that one sacrifice once. Just to make sure that your elderly parents/grandparent might actually be around for the next Thanksgiving or Christmas. I just don't get it. 

Never even mind the poor healthcare workers who are exhausted and at the limit. If they all get sick, then what are people going to do? 

When has that simple rationality gone out the window? 

Agreed.  As someone who doesn't necessarily go along with everything that is being put out there, I am unwilling to roll the dice, and as a show of respect (gasp!!) to my community, am doing what is suggested on the chance that the 'experts' just might be right.  I'm a lover of liberty, but I am also a lover of breathing.  If it were possible to completely segregate those who believe from those who don't, great, but it isn't. (I don't want to live in that world either btw)

Edited by SuprSuprElevated
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15 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

This is sensible and reasonable.
But I am too far away to do anything like @Browncoat’s outdoor day trip feast. 

If I lived farther away, I wouldn't even consider going.  And after speaking to my parents this morning, I might even end up taking my own food.

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10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

@Bastet, so sorry for your loss.  I took a break from this thread because it sometimes gets too much for me emotionally.  Every time I hear of someone's illness and death it goes right through me as I'm still grieving my own father's Covid death.

Here in CT the cases per 100,000 have risen dramatically in the last two weeks.  They've risen so much that it is much higher than it was even when we had stay at home orders last Spring.  So this week my husband and I have abruptly stopped going into stores and have put ourselves in a mostly quarantined state.  We are only going to go out for rides, curbside pickups, getting gas, and for walks.  We did our first Instacart order in a couple of months a few days ago too.  We are resigned to being mostly confined for the rest of the holiday season and the Winter.  We are fortunate not to have any family that would invite us anywhere.  Thankfully my SIL in Middletown, NY knows better than to have Thanksgiving with the family as her husband has cancer and is undergoing chemo., plus he is almost 70 and a diabetic to boot.  At this point even her kids aren't getting together with them.

My town is right now one of only 11 in CT that are not considered in the "red zone", meaning in excess of 15 new cases per 100,000 per week, but we are surrounded and I am sure that pretty soon we will all be in the red zone.  We have never even been in the orange zone before this.  I feel like people got used to feeling more relaxed over the summer and are not paying attention to what is going on out there, and of course are not willing to scale back without being told they have to.  So far our governor has been reticent to do that.  I think he is following NY and NJ's lead but they are not yet experiencing the same rate of cases we are.  He says he doesn't intend to put us back into a shut down, but I don't see how he is going to avoid some shut downs given the reality of what is going on.  If we don't do something it's going to get out of control and not end well.  I think he wants to only shut certain things down and leave others open - OK, but even that has yet to happen other than making restaurants close by 10:00 p.m. (bars have never been reopened).  

I hear you, I feel exactly the same.  It astounds me how people can't make a small short-term sacrifice to prevent giving and getting the disease.  Like duh, if you want to see grandpa next year, maybe sit this one out.  It's not rocket science. I don't know if most of these people even know what a super spreader event is.  Probably not.  And sadly, even if they read about I wonder how many would fully understand the concept.  I hate to say things like that about people, but it's becoming very obvious that a large percentage of people either can't figure this stuff out or are also in some sort of denial and don't want to face the reality.

I hate to say this, but I am feeling like a large percentage of people these days have gone completely off the deep end in a few ways.  I was suspecting that a significant number of people were getting nuttier, more socially irresponsible, more susceptible to accepting hogwash, and more morally vacant for a long time, but I didn't want to give in to thinking that way because I didn't want to be called an "intellectual and moral snob" and be accused of insulting people.  But it's getting harder and harder for me not to just admit it to myself and accept whatever criticism I get for it.

I always wondered why the rate of CT is higher than NJ and NY, but I thought it could have been the little town clusters which are common among CT. I hope CT gets well and has a lower infection rate in the coming months, but I have my doubts about that. I pray everything will be fine once the vaccine is disputed.

Edited by Robert Lynch
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2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Normally my mom and I go visit my aunt and uncle for Thanksgiving, and many of my cousins and their families come in, too.

We usually do a big family thing at my uncle's (though it's been smaller in recent years; a few years ago it was only 9 of us, plus my cousin's elderly cat who couldn't be left overnight, and his son who slept through dinner). My mom told him over a month ago that we wouldn't be coming. My parents are making dinner, and my brother and I will go, and we will eat in the living room where we can be further apart, and wear masks when we're not eating (same as we did for my dad's birthday last week). I assume Christmas will be the same. And I usually go to my friend's for New Year's Eve, and it's mostly just us and her husband and 2 kids, but I think I will probably stay home this year. 

According to the map here, all but one county in NJ is red. Most of the country is red.

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1 hour ago, Robert Lynch said:

I always wondered why the rate of CT is higher than NJ and NY, but I thought it could have been the little town clusters which are common among CT. I hope CT gets well and has a lower infection rate in the coming months, but I have my doubts about that. I pray everything will be fine once the vaccine is disputed.

There are a lot of "closet deniers" in CT, despite appearances.  And a lot of older people seem to live in their own world, curiously unaware of what's going on out there.  The last time I was in the supermarket most people there were at least 10 years older than ME and I'm 62!  You're right that for most of this pandemic certain cities and towns were skewing the numbers for the state as a whole, but what is shocking is how the higher rate is now bleeding into all towns across the board.  I think some people are tired of being careful and are just going about their lives like there's no reason to care.  Plus I hate to say it but the contact tracing is showing that young adults are driving the pandemic now.  A lot has been written in newspapers and magazines urging some kind of urgent message to them to just stop it, but it doesn't look like any such message has been made.  I thought we were going in the right direction but in the late summer I started to realize a lot of people weren't listening.  Sure, they wore masks when they had to, but they were sill congregating together inside without them.  Unfortunately reopening as much as we did only encouraged the bad behavior.  Recently our governor suddenly realized that restaurants that serve liquor have actually replaced the bars (which are still closed) so last week he instituted a mandatory closing time of 10:00 p.m. for restaurants.  When I was out one night after dark in September after the phase 3 rollout allowing 75% capacity in restaurants, I was shocked to see all these young people packing into places that usually only attract middle aged people - It was because they couldn't go to the bars and were in effect turning those restaurants into bars.

It looks like my husband and I are going to feel like prisoners in our house for longer this time than from March - June.  Hopefully we're old enough to qualify to get the vaccine in an earlier stage of its rollout.  I never thought being older might be an advantage.  Even so, we won't be rushing out to live a normal life after getting the vaccine either until it looks safe enough.  This is very depressing.  😞 

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2 hours ago, supposebly said:

I simply do not understand why it's so hard to make that one sacrifice once. Just to make sure that your elderly parents/grandparent might actually be around for the next Thanksgiving or Christmas. I just don't get it. 

Never even mind the poor healthcare workers who are exhausted and at the limit. If they all get sick, then what are people going to do? 

When has that simple rationality gone out the window? 

I'm going to my Mom's for Thanksgiving.  I'm going back for Christmas too.  I'm going to quarantine myself before.  I'm going to quarantine myself after.  My Mom is being as safe she can but not to point of not seeing my brother or the Grandkids until everything is over.  But even that is way cut back on compared to precovid, from weekly to once a month at the most.  My brother and SIL are being as safe as they can but his work isn't allowing full time work from home and the kids are in school.  They get covid tests every time someone has the sniffles.

I care more about not being responsible for getting someone else sick than getting sick myself.   So I'll take that risk for me.  But I'm also not going to act like my brother is being irrational joining us for the Holidays.  His situation is what it is and he's being as safe as he can given the circumstances and I know he worries a lot about all of us.  And my Mom is an adult who gets to weigh the risks she takes for herself.  She does not want to live a life in total isolation.  She wants to see her kids and grandkids. 

And skipping the Holidays isn't one sacrifice.  Its a sacrifice on top of nine months of sacrifice plus who knows how many more.  And yes, its possible we end up with asymptomatic spread within the family.  And that fills me with fear that we should all just hide in our houses and only talk over the phone.  But me hiding isn't going to fix anything because I can take all the precautions.  And I could probably, maybe, guilt trip my Mom into isolating but I just can't do that to her even though the idea of losing her scares the shit out of me.  Because the only thing she is doing that brings extra risk is spending, drastically cut back already, time with family.

And at the root of all of it is my Dad.  He died totally unexpectedly and way too young a few years ago.  The luckiest thing that happened to me was breaking my ankle because he came for a couple weeks to help me get set up to manage living alone with it until it healed.  He was gone within a month after that.  I've always wondered if it eats at my brother that he didn't come over more while he was in town with us. And an unexpected death like that really fucks with you mentally.  We all have a really high level of anxiety of someone being unexpectedly gone that doesn't go away.  It doesn't even lessen over time.

I don't live in a reality where skipping the Holidays with elderly grandparents/parents means that I'm making it so they are there next year.  Covid or no covid, someone might be gone tomorrow with no warning.   So I have to examine rationally how I navigate the (bordering on irrational) fears of getting covid against the fears someone dying from other causes with no warning and missing out on the last time to see them. And in the small sampling of my family, parents and grandparents, the latter is a sixty percent  risk against a covid risk that is nintey something mortality risk.  

Are some people making irresponsible and irrational decisions?  Probably.  But people have different life experiences.  What is a clear cut answer for one person may be way more complex for someone else.

Edited by ParadoxLost
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11 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

I am appalled at the astounding number if people ignoring the CDC request to just stay home this Thanksgiving. I'd love to not be spending it completely alone, like I've spent most of the last 8 months but I love not being sick or infecting others more.

The images coming from airports and people just planning to gather because YOLO are just making things worse. It's going to be a dark, sad, lonely winter. Thanksgiving is going to be one huge super spreader event.

First, and hopefully last Thanksgiving alone. I'm not looking forward to it. But it's the responsible thing to do. I'm always alone on Christmas so that doesn't bother me, as much. 

The spike in cases that we've been seeing over the last couple of weeks is from people having Halloween gatherings, so yes, Thanksgiving is going to end up being another country-wide superspreader event, and then we'll go right into Christmas and New Year's gatherings with virtually no break in between. Positive cases, hospitalizations and deaths are going to continue to skyrocket because a significant number of people just don't care about anyone but themselves.

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I’m very pleased to report that the superintendent of my school FINALLY came to his senses and declared that we’d remain on a virtual learning schedule until January. Damned shame it took three different Covid-related school closures and at least 20 different staff cases in three months for it to finally occur; now that one of his main fellow admin staff members admitted that she’s being quarantined due to exposure and is already showing symptoms, I guess it got way too close for comfort for him.

I’m sure some of our students’ backwoods anti-masker parents are upset about being stuck at home with their kids for that long, but their dumb asses can just stuff it. Our state’s numbers are way too high right now to dare tempt fate and expose our more vulnerable students/staff any more than we already have. 

The very idea of anyone demanding schools to remain open as usual right now through this bullshit is asinine; typical sickness plagues schools enough annually as it is. No one ever asked us teachers about our own educated input on the matter of schools operating in-person through this mess, so now we’re all left just shaking our heads at the idiot state lawmakers and the growing Covid numbers while muttering, “told you so.”

Meanwhile I had to look around in shock last night when I dashed into a local Irish pub to pick up a to-go dinner order for my husband and me. Multiple mask-free groups of 8-12 folks were all sitting in there dining together like nothing was any different!!
Like why would you even WANT to be crowded together in a dining room like that right now? I immediately felt sad for those poor servers having to work those crowds and likely risk exposure...then I was pissed off at their managers for actually allowing them to serve groups over 4 right now. Needless to say, I don’t be going back into that joint for a while. 
 

Edited by Sun-Bun
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32 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

And skipping the Holidays isn't one sacrifice.  Its a sacrifice on top of nine months of sacrifice plus who knows how many more.  And yes, its possible we end up with asymptomatic spread within the family.  And that fills me with fear that we should all just hide in our houses and only talk over the phone.  But me hiding isn't going to fix anything because I can take all the precautions.  And I could probably, maybe, guilt trip my Mom into isolating but I just can't do that to her even though the idea of losing her scares the shit out of me.  Because the only thing she is doing that brings extra risk is spending, drastically cut back already, time with family.

And at the root of all of it is my Dad.  He died totally unexpectedly and way too young a few years ago.  The luckiest thing that happened to me was breaking my ankle because he came for a couple weeks to help me get set up to manage living alone with it until it healed.  He was gone within a month after that.  I've always wondered if it eats at my brother that he didn't come over more while he was in town with us. And an unexpected death like that really fucks with you mentally.  We all have a really high level of anxiety of someone being unexpectedly gone that doesn't go away.  It doesn't even lessen over time.

I don't live in a reality where skipping the Holidays with elderly grandparents/parents means that I'm making it so they are there next year.  Covid or no covid, someone might be gone tomorrow with no warning.   So I have to examine rationally how I navigate the (the bordering on irrational) fears of getting covid against the fears someone dying from other causes with no warning and missing out on the last time to see them. And in the small sampling of my family, parents and grandparents, the latter is a sixty percent  risk against a covid risk that is nintey something mortality risk.  

Are some people making irresponsible and irrational decisions?  Probably.  But people have different life experiences.  What is a clear cut answer for one person may be way more complex for someone else.

I hear you, but consider this - I didn't get to see my Dad for the last month of his life because of the horrible situation in NYC re: Covid in March, and the strong recommendations against traveling there.  I was pretty much told that if it wasn't absolutely necessary, I shouldn't travel there.  So I didn't.  And it looks like it was a good thing I didn't, because my 92 year old father caught Covid in his apartment from caregivers in March, and died on the first week of April.  If my 64 year old husband and I had traveled there and seen him because we worried that he could die of something else before we saw him again, we in all likelihood would have gotten sick ourselves and possibly died - we may have also caught the virus from one of his caregivers or from him.  Both of us have reasons to worry about that.  Plus WE could have been the ones to give it to him.  I don't think I'd want to live with that for the rest of my life.  I already feel responsible for his death in the sense that I couldn't be there to protect him enough from what happened to him.  I know I'm not responsible but tell that to the way I FEEL.

The real issue here is that I would not want to be the one to give anyone the virus.  As careful as I am, that's always a possibility.  Sure, people can die of other things, but you can't prevent those things.  I CAN prevent giving this virus to someone else.  That's what makes the difference for me in how I behave with regard to the virus.  I take the steps to prevent what I can control and don't make comparisons between that and other situations that I can't control.  Just because my father could have had a heart attack or gotten hit by a car and died before I saw him again it still wouldn't be a justification for me to rush to see him if it might put him or myself at risk of getting the virus.  Besides, the chances of any of that happening even at his age and in his condition were actually far more remote than his chances of getting the virus.  So I have no regrets at all for what I did.  Sure, it was sad and tragic, and I was robbed of seeing him for his final month - and during his final moments in the hospital, but I feel that's still better than engaging in behavior that could have caused a worse outcome than even THAT for him, for us, and who knows who else?

I will say this, though.  If someone can self-quarantine for 2 weeks and take Covid tests before seeing their loved ones, I might be OK with that as long as they traveled by car and didn't get on an airplane or any shared vehicle, and they practiced strict social distancing and mask wearing on the trip.  In that case they'd be doing whatever they could to avoid spreading the virus.  I look at it this way, this is only temporary.  Holidays are every year.  With any luck we'll all be able to see our loved ones next year.  It's not worth the risk for one day out of a year to engage in risky behavior.  This thing is real and it's really that bad.  

Edited by Yeah No
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1 minute ago, Yeah No said:

I will say this, though.  If someone can self-quarantine for 2 weeks and take Covid tests before seeing their loved ones, I might be OK with that as long as they traveled by car and didn't get on an airplane or any shared vehicle, and they practiced strict social distancing and mask wearing on the trip.  In that case they'd be doing whatever they could to avoid spreading the virus.

I'm quarantining > two weeks before going and its across town so its just a 45 min drive.  Not getting a covid test because that seems like a precaution on top of quarantining that is an unnecessary risk.  Seems like the statistical probability that more than two weeks full quarantine isn't enough is not worth driving to a covid symptom congregation center to get a covid test and basically breaking quarantine to do it.  And I plan to quarantine afterwards because making someone else sick is my biggest fear.

And I'm truly sorry for your loss.  And I know that if things go wrong that me not being the one to spread won't be much comfort. But I'm not the decider for all the adults in my family and they are doing what they are doing.  And I can't even say that they are being irresponsible because if my brother's situation was different I really have no doubt that we'd all be on full lock down.

2 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Agreed.  As someone who doesn't necessarily go along with everything that is being put out there, I am unwilling to roll the dice, and as a show of respect (gasp!!) to my community, am doing what is suggested on the chance that the 'experts' just might be right.  I'm a lover of liberty, but I am also a lover of breathing.  If it were possible to completely segregate those who believe from those who don't, great, but it isn't. (I don't want to live in that world either btw)

I'd be kind of curious to know the reasons why those who don't believe or seem like they don't believe don't.  Because to me it seems like it falls into four categories based on personal observation.  Not saying that its every member of these groups but its definitely attitudes I've encountered.

The young who haven't lived long enough to know that they or their families aren't invincible

The old who seem to have the attitude of they've lived through a lot and they are coming nearer to the end and want their last years to be worth leaving even if its shorter

Those that are "essential" workers that can't work from home.  I would think this normalizes covid and it starts being harder to see why its fine to take the risk for a company that employs you but shouldn't in any other circumstance.

Small businesses.  Small business owners and employees are where I see the greatest amount of non mask wearing. Around here, customers voluntarily mask up but the only working people I see wearing masks are in restaurants and chain stores. Other places that I've had to go to have not worn masks except for all the customers.  It makes me wonder if its a backlash to the unevenness of who is most hurt by the lockdowns.

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I'd like to add that people who quarantine before going to a Thanksgiving gathering should also quarantine and test afterward because if you catch Covid from anyone there, you can give it to someone else after Thanksgiving before you know you have it.  This is how these events become "super spreaders".  It's not just about going there and you not giving it to anyone there, it's about whether someone there gives it to you when you're there, and then you go out before you know you have it and give it to other people.  I am equally as concerned about this as I am about the other end of the equation.

Also, it's one thing to be concerned about how you yourself take precautions before going to such a family event, but I would also be concerned about everyone else who will attend and if those people are taking similar precautions regarding quarantining themselves beforehand, especially if one's parents and grandparents intend to be in attendance.  In my case, back in March I was telling my father that his caregivers had to be wearing masks and gloves - he assured me they were, but I was then told later after he died by his cleaning woman that not all of them were.  Of course I feel responsible now because I didn't call the nursing service myself to press the point with them.  This shit is real and we have to think about all of these things because they literally can mean the difference between life and death for our loved ones.  I learned that early when it was too late.  I can at least forgive myself knowing that back then there were no mask mandates and I was doing the best I could with the knowledge I had at the time.  But by now we should all know better, IMHO.

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6 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

 I can at least forgive myself knowing that back then there were no mask mandates and I was doing the best I could with the knowledge I had at the time. 

I’m so sorry for your loss, @Yeah No...that’s got to be so hard to deal with, knowing your father died thanks to the carelessness of the very people paid to protect him! At least you have made peace with this sad fact and have since learned from their mistakes.
I’ve heard similar stories from friends/family whose older family members were so cruelly affected by this pandemic. The way that the older folks and the medically vulnerable are being targeted by Covid is so unfair...makes me genuinely upset to see the younger super spreaders out there partying their cares away in comparison, possibly infecting their parents/grandparents thanks to their own thoughtlessness.

That's the only thing that brings me peace about my 101-year-old grandmother who passed away several years ago; she had bronchial issues and had to live in a nursing home her last few years, so I’m just relieved that she didn’t have to live through this mess. 

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20 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I'd be kind of curious to know the reasons why those who don't believe or seem like they don't believe don't.  Because to me it seems like it falls into four categories based on personal observation. 

You left out the ones who have been told it's a hoax, and not real, or maybe was real but we're pretty much over it, and besides, it's not that bad.  That's what they believe.

A couple of months ago I noticed that at Walgreens, there was a hand-written notice on the door saying that COVID vaccines were not available.  That means people were actually walking into the Walgreens wanting to get a COVID vaccination two months ago!  And apparently enough people that they decided to put a sign on the door to keep them from coming into the store.  That is some very serious ignorance.

 

3 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

As someone who doesn't necessarily go along with everything that is being put out there, I am unwilling to roll the dice, and as a show of respect (gasp!!) to my community, am doing what is suggested on the chance that the 'experts' just might be right. 

That's exactly how I look at it--a show of respect to my community.  A community that I'm having trouble drumming up respect for, but I'm still doing it anyway because I just can't help myself.

 

Quote

If it were possible to completely segregate those who believe from those who don't, great, but it isn't. (I don't want to live in that world either btw)

I'd like to at least give it a shot.

I saw an interview with a toy store owner, who was talking about all the precautions she's taking.  She talked a big game, but what I noticed was that she didn't keep her mask stayed above her nose.   She illustrated one of the precautions, where she squirted the required hand sanitizer on a child's hands before entering the store, leaning over in a way that put her unmasked nose right at the kid's face. 

Same with a barber, who was grousing about the occupancy restrictions, as her mask slid down her face and she pulled it up, and it slid down and she pulled it up.  Are we to believe it's going to be any different as she's gabbing while cutting hair?

And yet I'm sure both are quite convinced they are doing everything they can.

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1 hour ago, Sun-Bun said:

I’m so sorry for your loss, @Yeah No...that’s got to be so hard to deal with, knowing your father died thanks to the carelessness of the very people paid to protect him! At least you have made peace with this sad fact and have since learned from their mistakes.
I’ve heard similar stories from friends/family whose older family members were so cruelly affected by this pandemic. The way that the older folks and the medically vulnerable are being targeted by Covid is so unfair...makes me genuinely upset to see the younger super spreaders out there partying their cares away in comparison, possibly infecting their parents/grandparents thanks to their own thoughtlessness.

I know, tell me about it!  I actually think I know which nurse it was because the cleaning woman told me it was her.  I met this nurse in February when I was visiting my Dad so I knew her name.  I'm sure she didn't intend to harm anyone - I can actually forgive her more easily because it was SO early that even caregivers didn't know how important it was to wear masks.  I don't know if her boss told the nurses to wear them or if they just did it on their own.  I do know that when my father didn't answer the doorbell or the phone one day after saying he had a "slight cold" and was "feeling better", and I called the nursing service, the supervisor sounded very upset to hear what I was telling her and went out of her way to get the EMT's to my father's apartment.  The cleaning woman met them there with the key to let them in but didn't go anywhere near the apartment while my father was still there.  As soon as my father told me he had "the sniffles" I was worried, but back then we didn't know that this thing could go from very mild to a deathbed situation inside of hours, plus he told me his nurses and a doctor said he was doing fine.  My Dad had the misfortune of being an early case or else I am sure a lot of this would have been prevented.  My Dad was actually a very lucky guy most of his life, but in this case his luck just ran out.

As far as the nurse goes, she was young and obviously recovered because ironically a few months later I found out that she was the nurse assigned to my best friend who needed assistance after a brief hospital stay (my best friend lives close to my Dad).  I innocently asked my friend her nurse's name and given that this woman has a very rare name I knew it was her.  I didn't tell my friend that this was the woman we suspected - I didn't want to upset her as she was close to my Dad for over 40 years.  I did ask her if she wore a mask and she said, "Of course, it's required.  And a visor".  "Good", I said, and dropped the subject.

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Was just listening to the More or Less podcast from the BBC about the risk of gatherings. They talked about a risk assessment tool developed at Georgia Tech...you can put in the number of people (from 10-5000) and see what the risk of someone there having covid is in different areas (for 10 people in my county it's 17%...100 people and it's 77%. I moved it to 5000 and the whole country turned dark red (>99%) except for a handful of tiny pockets that are somehow very low. "The risk level is the estimated chance (0-100%) that at least 1 COVID-19 positive individual will be present at an event in a county, given the size of the event."

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

On a lighter note, it's cloudy and in the low 50s here but I just took a walk outside. Smells like fireplace smoke. 

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I'm quite fortunate that Thanksgiving and Christmas are always spent only with my parents, so I don't have to make the evaluations and decisions many of my friends are making for the holidays - who, if anyone, can I see, and if anyone, what precautions do we have to take?  Because the three of us are acting as a household that just happens to be spread over two houses (other than the two houses, we don't go anywhere beyond medical appointments and grocery runs, so our exposure to others is brief [and masked/distanced] and infrequent), we don't have to alter our plans this year.  I'm thankful for that, as I know many cannot safely see family.

We go camping in my parents' motorhome for Thanksgiving every year - my parents go for the week, and I join them Wed-Sat - and the campground is supposed to be appropriately spaced this year, with only every fourth site occupied.  There are no indoor spaces, and it's easy on walks to stay well away from people (it's usually sparsely populated during normal years).  So it should be good - and really nice to move our bubble to someplace more scenic - but I was still a little apprehensive until hearing from my parents that they'd arrived and everything is indeed as it should be.

They did have to move to a different site than our usual, because the tree was blocking the satellite signal (first world problem!), but it's just fine.

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From Twitter today 

"47% of Americans still plan to travel for Thanksgiving. Turns out when we clapped for healthcare workers at 7 PM we meant, "encore""

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25 minutes ago, Bastet said:

and it's easy on walks to stay well away from people (it's usually sparsely populated during normal years). 

During Covid lockdowns, our scenic paths have been more densely populated. Just be sure to have masks handy and not be committed to continuing the walk if there are too many careless people.

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5 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

You left out the ones who have been told it's a hoax, and not real, or maybe was real but we're pretty much over it, and besides, it's not that bad.  That's what they believe.

A couple of months ago I noticed that at Walgreens, there was a hand-written notice on the door saying that COVID vaccines were not available.  That means people were actually walking into the Walgreens wanting to get a COVID vaccination two months ago!  And apparently enough people that they decided to put a sign on the door to keep them from coming into the store.  That is some very serious ignorance.

 

That's exactly how I look at it--a show of respect to my community.  A community that I'm having trouble drumming up respect for, but I'm still doing it anyway because I just can't help myself.

 

I'd like to at least give it a shot.

I saw an interview with a toy store owner, who was talking about all the precautions she's taking.  She talked a big game, but what I noticed was that she didn't keep her mask stayed above her nose.   She illustrated one of the precautions, where she squirted the required hand sanitizer on a child's hands before entering the store, leaning over in a way that put her unmasked nose right at the kid's face. 

Same with a barber, who was grousing about the occupancy restrictions, as her mask slid down her face and she pulled it up, and it slid down and she pulled it up.  Are we to believe it's going to be any different as she's gabbing while cutting hair?

And yet I'm sure both are quite convinced they are doing everything they can.

The mask thing is a riddle at this point.  We're a solid eight months in, and so many mask wearers are apparently unclear or unaware of how to wear one, and which type works best as a rule.  Pro tip:  if your mask continually slips off of your nose, then you either need to find one with a bendable wire or actually use the bendable wire that is in the one you have.  'Nother pro tip:  if you have a relative who can't grasp these suggestions, assist them in the proper use of the mask.  People like my 89-yr old, visually and hearing impaired mother need help with these concepts, so I understand that.  Apparently, there isn't anyone in her $4500/mo. ALF to help her with such things. 🙄

Edited by SuprSuprElevated
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During Covid lockdowns, our scenic paths have been more densely populated. Just be sure to have masks handy and not be committed to continuing the walk if there are too many careless people.

You have to have reservations, so I can tell from the website how many people will be in the campground, and it's about the same as usual (which is not much; when I was a kid and we started doing this, the place was full, but that hasn't been true for quite some time), just much more spread out throughout the campground.  And the campground is but a blip; there's a shit ton of wide open space in the park at large.  So it will be no issue to stay away from people while walking.  I usually only go for short strolls through the campground itself, with the bulk of my walking being in those open spaces and down at the lake - where I hardly ever see anyone, period, and would spot anyone I did see from quite far away and easily avoid them. 

The only close quarters with nowhere to go would be on parts of the hiking trail, but there are many years I do that without seeing another human.  Nowhere else would I have to come within six feet of someone even if we were passing each other.

(Of course I will have a mask still.)

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In addition to all this Thanksgiving Ostrich Headedness, I saw a most infuriating column in my local Sunday paper in which the columnist acknowledged that with our current affliction, attempting to re-enact a Black Friday was putting one's own and others' lives on the lives .. BUT she still wanted to do it again THIS year because she thought it was a cool, bonding experience with folks she barely knew- if at all! 

 

SHEESH! Of all the stupidity! Even without our current affliction, Black Friday was something of an unpleasant and bogus waste of time while enduring the crush of crowds JUST to see if one could have at it with bargains and this year would be the perfect time for her and other columnists to relegate this to the 'Too Bad/ NOT Happening' Ash Heap of Bad and Dumb Ideas and that these past few months  has shown one CAN easily surf/phone one's orders in without having to press the flesh with dozens if not hundreds of folks not making the slightest 'social distance' attempts.  I never liked the concept of everyone being whipped into a hysterical frenzy to tear themselves away from their families JUST to shop to they dropped. But this columnist would rather behave like a brainless teen who knows she could get grounded for getting caught sneaking out to a party her parents expressly forbade her to go to or someone who barely was able to prevent losing one's leg in a motorcycle accident eager to ride again ASAP! BOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

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"We must get together for Thanksgiving" is such a habit for so many people that people are taking a decision not to do it as an insult.  There's so much pressure not to get together but then there's peer pressure from family members to get together.  I know of families that are having arguments about this even if they see each other all the time. 

Even I'm feeling the peer pressure from my sister for reasons that are unrelated to belief in the pandemic.  She knows it's bad but I also know I am stricter about social distancing and quarantining than I think anyone else in my family.  I don't feel this from my parents, necessarily but I do think there's a big "if you love me you'll risk it" prove it attitude around these holidays.

Edited by Irlandesa
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2 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

"We must get together for Thanksgiving" is such a habit for so many people that people are taking a decision not to do it as an insult.  There's so much pressure not to get together but then there's peer pressure from family members to get together.  I know of families that are having arguments about this even if they see each other all the time. 

Even I'm feeling the peer pressure from my sister for reasons that are unrelated to belief in the pandemic.  She knows it's bad but I also know I am stricter about social distancing and quarantining than I think anyone else in my family.  I don't feel this from my parents, necessarily but I do think there's a big "if you love me you'll risk it" prove it attitude around these holidays.

I know these feeling exist, but I just really don't understand.  I guess I'm grateful that everyone in my family is very understanding about it.  My husband is extremely vulnerable, as is my b-i-l, and my niece is newly diagnosed with Lymphoma, so yeah, we're all going to just stay within our own households.  Thanks Misters Bell, Gray, and Meucci, for the telephone.

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14 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

but I do think there's a big "if you love me you'll risk it" prove it attitude around these holidays.

Yeah. And that's what my older boyfriend told me when I was 16.

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2 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I know these feeling exist, but I just really don't understand.  I guess I'm grateful that everyone in my family is very understanding about it.  My husband is extremely vulnerable, as is my b-i-l, and my niece is newly diagnosed with Lymphoma, so yeah, we're all going to just stay within our own households.  Thanks Misters Bell, Gray, and Meucci, for the telephone.

I think most of it is because people truly do not understand germs and disease transmission. I’ve run into it repeatedly with my family and out work. There hasn’t been one central message and many people think they understand and are informed when they’re not at all. Mostly I feel like 90% of the people I encountered are completely misinformed at both ends of the spectrum. My co-workers spend all day listening to a Rush Limbaugh style talk radio. They truly believe they’re well informed and are making smart choices.

I wish I could do what many here do and isolate but it impossible for me right now. I’ll I can do is minimize my risk and accept some of it is beyond my control.

I suppose it’s like a lot of thinks in life right now with two extremes thinking the other side is crazy and the people in the middle completely confused. 

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My Thanksgiving plans haven’t changed because of covid, but I prefer low-key holidays anyway. My household consists of me, my daughter, my younger sister, BIL, and nephew. My son, DIL, and grandson live just a few blocks away, and we already are in our own bubble of sorts.   A couple of years ago I had a much larger celebration, because my mother was here, and that mostly served to remind me how much I hated all the extra prep work that having extra people entails. We’re still having a good variety of food, but without as much pressure. Although I would like to see my two other siblings, it’s neither feasible nor wise to do so until after a vaccine is available. Given that I am in Texas, with its huge number of cases, my siblings are fine with postponing any visits until next year. 

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3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

"We must get together for Thanksgiving" is such a habit for so many people that people are taking a decision not to do it as an insult.  There's so much pressure not to get together but then there's peer pressure from family members to get together.  I know of families that are having arguments about this even if they see each other all the time. 

Even I'm feeling the peer pressure from my sister for reasons that are unrelated to belief in the pandemic.  She knows it's bad but I also know I am stricter about social distancing and quarantining than I think anyone else in my family.  I don't feel this from my parents, necessarily but I do think there's a big "if you love me you'll risk it" prove it attitude around these holidays.

I also think some lonely people who live alone are rationalizing risking it or minimizing the risk in their minds of going over to their families' and friends' houses.  I just got off the phone with my best friend - she lives alone in NYC and after listening to her rant about all the people traveling for Thanksgiving despite the risks and warnings, she stated that she intends to go over to a friend's house on Wednesday into Thursday.  The friend also lives alone but she is also inviting her neighbors over for Thanksgiving dinner.  And she told me this right after I told her how the governor of my state said that people need to understand that they can give and get the virus from family and friends that don't live with them.  Just because you know them or someone you know knows them doesn't mean you can sit down at a table with them in a closed room without masks on and have dinner without taking a risk.  She even AGREED with me on that, but then told me about her Thanksgiving plans!!!  What is wrong with this picture?  She doesn't approve of that kind of behavior when other people do it, but thinks it's OK when she does it?  It just boggles my mind.  I didn't know how to respond.  I chose to keep my mouth shut and just told her to be safe.  I give up with everyone!

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The problem stems from typical ignorance and those that believe their rights are being violated. Just not long ago, the governor of my state(NY) made the 10 people rule for Thanksgiving gatherings and two officials are opposing that rule. One is a sheriff and the other is from Long Island. I just can't believe it! This is the reason the world is watching when you have people in high positions opposing lockdowns. If you just listen to the science, then maybe some normalcy could come about it. Right now, it is this stupid you are with us or against us mantra. 

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3 hours ago, Robert Lynch said:

not long ago, the governor of my state(NY) made the 10 people rule for Thanksgiving gatherings and two officials are opposing that rule. One is a sheriff

Whenever I here of unwillingness of law enforcement to enforce pandemic crowd rules, I wonder if it’s because of the risk to the officers’ health. I mean, it’s not like a gun or a taser or a vest can protect them from the virus. And a cloth or paper mask probably won’t do much if entering a crowded room with a bunch of unmasked contagious people —especially if someone rips off that mask in a struggle. 

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5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Whenever I here of unwillingness of law enforcement to enforce pandemic crowd rules, I wonder if it’s because of the risk to the officers’ health. I mean, it’s not like a gun or a taser or a vest can protect them from the virus. And a cloth or paper mask probably won’t do much if entering a crowded room with a bunch of unmasked contagious people —especially if someone rips off that mask in a struggle. 

I suppose that could be the issue. I think you have a good point there.

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My husband and I usually go to my brother's or sisters place for Thanksgiving, or they come to our place, they live about 45 minutes away from each other on Long Island, we live about 2 hours away in Connecticut.  My other brother and his wife moved to Germany last year to be with their daughter and grandchildren.  This year we're Zooming Thanksgiving at noon our time, so the family in Germany can participate before it gets too late for the grandkids. I do really enjoy getting together with everyone, but it's just too risky this year. 

BTW, Zoom has lifted the 40 minute restriction for meetings for those on the free plan, so people can talk as long as they want.  I think this is a nice idea (and good publicity for the company).

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45 minutes ago, ALenore said:

BTW, Zoom has lifted the 40 minute restriction for meetings for those on the free plan, so people can talk as long as they want.  I think this is a nice idea (and good publicity for the company).

I don't know.  Considering how a lot of Thanksgiving dinners go, a 40-minute limit might be a good thing.  Trevor Noah did a funny bit last Thursday about the 40-minute limit being a lifesaver when his cousin starts talking about his foot surgery.

 

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

She doesn't approve of that kind of behavior when other people do it, but thinks it's OK when she does it? 

Well, sure.  She has a good reason for doing it while others obviously don't.  Not that she knows what their reasons might be.  But hers are better than theirs, for sure.

 

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Whenever I here of unwillingness of law enforcement to enforce pandemic crowd rules, I wonder if it’s because of the risk to the officers’ health. I mean, it’s not like a gun or a taser or a vest can protect them from the virus. And a cloth or paper mask probably won’t do much if entering a crowded room with a bunch of unmasked contagious people —especially if someone rips off that mask in a struggle. 

I'm not buying it.  If they were afraid of the danger to the officers' health, they just would just not enforce it.  But they're announcing they're not going to enforce it.  That's different.

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I'm going to absent myself for a while from this thread because we seem to be off topic of personal stories more often than not these days.   Its too frustrating to want to have a conversation about the topics raised and not be able to..

So have a Happy Thanksgiving!  See you all around.

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My mother just called and said my stepdad's boss at the local gun store tested positive for COVID. Mom's headed to my sister's in GA to dogsit while my sister and niece are going to the BMX nationals race in Tulsa. I don't think Mom took a test. Dad did and is waiting for results while "quarantining" at home in NC...but Mom has been with him up through today, so...? I want to say so many things, but I just said I hope they are all safe.

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