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There are also people who may not have access to a computer/internet, or who don't have a bank account/debit card/credit card.  Store pickup or delivery are not available to those folks. 

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I took a road trip this weekend, three hours away, the first travel of any kind since this all began.  Masks aren't mandatory there, and it was really disconcerting to be surrounded by people without masks, approximately 30% of people I encountered in stores were maskless.  I ate inside a restaurant for the first time, rather than takeout or patio.   We waited a few minutes to be seated, with about half of the patrons in line wearing masks.  Most of the staff were at least pretending to wear masks - some wore none, and many had them under their noses, or all the way under the chin and a number wore this silly little piece of plastic over the nose and mouth 

Plastic shield 

Surely droplets from a sneeze or cough would just fly out of the top and sides. 

And the restaurant's interpretation of 6 feet between tables was "6 feet from the centre of the table to the centre of the next table".  You could extend your arm and touch diners at the next table.  

I stayed only because my companions wanted to, had I been alone or with a different group, I would have gone full Karen, then left.  

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A single daughter with a history of asthma, in her early 40s with no kids who has been working as a 911 operator overtime in a multi-news-story-making city and who has always been outgoing and loves to travel and seemed to be content with camping breaks just posted that she has flown to a distant city. 😨

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1 hour ago, Quof said:

I stayed only because my companions wanted to, had I been alone or with a different group, I would have gone full Karen, then left.  

No reason to go full Karen.  Nobody's going to change what they're doing just because somebody pitches a fit. 

 

3 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

We have a Walmart in the area that offers pick-up, but I'm not clear what they charge if anything.  I have avoided Walmart like the plague pandemic, because well, it's Walmart.

I'm anti-Walmart, but they carry a few things I can't get anywhere else, so I have to go periodically.  They were better at having things like rice and meat during the shortages (I figure Walmart shoppers don't have the disposable income to hoard), and if I go early in the morning or late in the evening, there aren't many people.

I made the mistake of going to a Kroger affiliate on Saturday afternoon.  I was going to Popeye's to pick up spicy chicken sandwiches, and the grocery store is across the street and I needed only a couple of items from the store.  But they were big, so I had to have a cart, which I usually don't need (because I eat crap like spicy chicken sandwiches instead of grocery store food), which of course made me less nimble.  Good god, it was a madhouse, compared to my usual weekday at 8:00 a.m. visits. 

I will never make that mistake again.  And I know people have limited schedules, etc., but you know pretty much everybody there has experienced that madness before, and yet they apparently do it again.  Surely they can switch around an hour on a weekday, or earlier or later on the weekend, to do their gigantic shopping trip.  Do they just not realize it doesn't have to be that way?

 

3 hours ago, ABay said:

I've been using Instacart and GrubHub/restaurant delivery since March.

Third-party restaurant delivery.  On the one hand, it seems like a great way to keep the restaurant in business.  But on the other hand, restaurants are being eaten alive by the third-party delivery services.  And the worst part is that their customers have no idea.  Giving a tip to the driver is nice, but that does nothing for the restaurant itself.

It's actually genius, because customers don't realize that none of the upcharging they're paying actually goes to the restaurant.  And the delivery platforms charge restaurants a percentage just for being on the platform, which gets reconciled behind the customers' back.  Their argument is that they're bringing in business that the restaurant wouldn't otherwise get, which has merit, but it's gotten to where restaurants have no choice. 

So it's terrible for the restaurants, a moneymaking bonanza for the delivery services, and the customers think they're being virtuous when actually mainly lining the delivery service's pockets. 

I found out that on Yelp, you can tap on a restaurant's phone number to call them for takeout/delivery.  But Yelp got caught substituting a GrubHub number for the restaurant's number if the restaurant signed up only for marketing and not delivery, so they could collect a referral fee.  Neither the restaurants nor the customers knew Yelp was doing this.  So people who thought they were calling the restaurant directly in order to support them didn't realize they were still giving GrubHub a cut.  And GrubHub used a sketchy formula for determining what to charge the restaurant. 

That is the business model people are supporting with third-party delivery.  They will do every foul thing they can think of, and maybe change a little if they get caught, but mainly just wait for the furor to die down.  Consequently, I don't do any delivery at all.  Instead, I'll order on the restaurant's own website, or call it in if they don't do online ordering, so they keep all the money.  I pick it up myself, either curbside or just dashing in to get it. 

It's more of a hassle on my end, but at least I understand what everybody in the transaction is doing and getting.  And if everybody who uses third-party restaurant delivery truly understood what's actually going on, I would think "Okay, the people have spoken."  But I don't think that's the case.

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18 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

No reason to go full Karen.  Nobody's going to change what they're doing just because somebody pitches a fit. 

By "Karen", I mean only "asking for the manager", then telling him/her I was reporting them to the Office of Public Health for failing to comply with Public Health Directives governing restaurant service.  Most restaurants are making a big display of how they are complying with the rules to make their establishment safe because they care about their customers and the community - cleaning, spacing, mask use.

The place was packed with senior citizens for a weekend breakfast - the cohort who are particularly vulnerable, thrilled to be out with family after a long time inside, perhaps not aware of the particulars of the Covid "rules", and unlikely to make a fuss.  I am none of those things.  Imagine the impact of just one infected employee in that setting.

Edited by Quof
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12 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

So it's terrible for the restaurants, a moneymaking bonanza for the delivery services, and the customers think they're being virtuous when actually mainly lining the delivery service's pockets. 

And it's not good for the drivers, either, since they're treated as independent contractors rather than employees.  No third party delivery services for me!  When I order from a restaurant that doesn't have its own delivery staff, I pick it up.

Grocery shopping doesn't bother me; masks are required here, and the population density compared to the air volume means my risk of being exposed to an infectious load of the virus is extremely low.  I'd rather go myself, so I can select the produce, meat, etc. myself, than do pick-up.

A friend from high school and I normally get together for lunch every year in Nov/Dec, but in 2018 we postponed to early 2019.  We kind of liked that better, so we were going to do the same for 2020.  But I pushed it back to April, since I was busy with work and preparations for my parents' 50th anniversary party in March.  So when we had to cancel the April lunch, we joked that maybe we'd wind up back on our Nov/Dec schedule, never dreaming things would still be so bad so many months later.  I emailed her this weekend to wish her a happy birthday, and it's a bit surreal that it has turned into "so, see you November 2021, maybe?"  We're obviously not very close, only seeing each other once a year and only emailing on our birthdays, but it is a nice tradition.  Oh well; we'll get back to it someday.

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6 minutes ago, Quof said:

By "Karen", I mean only "asking for the manager", then telling him/her I was reporting them to the Office of Public Health for failing to comply with Public Health Directives governing restaurant service.  Most restaurants are making a big display of how they are complying with the rules to make their establishment safe because they care about their customers and the community - cleaning, spacing, mask use.

Ha!  I forgot you're Canadian, where "full Karen" means asking for the manager.  I've read too many posts by employees on the Reddit Walgreens thread.

You know how restaurants or stores will have surveys at the bottom of the receipt?  I've started using that as my outlet for reporting compliance observations, both good and bad.  I've always been eager to provide feedback (which the internet has ruined, since every moron who can't pick up a pen and a piece of paper now gets to complain about every stupid imagined offense, and have it paid attention to because it's on social media), and I don't know if the businesses are interested in COVID compliance issues on these surveys, but it's what I can do.

That does remind me--I answered a survey like that once about a sandwich shop, where I complained that there was an employee standing right by the open door smoking, so I had to walk through that, and he followed me into the store to be the one to take my order andmake my sandwich.  Management actually replied, and said they were pretty sure they knew who it was, and thanked me for reporting it.  Something like a year later, at the table next to us was a manager and new employee going over the employee manual, and the manager said, "If you're going to take a smoke break, you have to go into the alley over there, or around the corner over there." 

Mr. Outlier quietly exclaimed, "YOU did that!"

Sadly, the sandwich shop is a victim of Coronavirus, so no more of the sublime cranberry wasabi mayo for me.

 

Just now, Bastet said:

And it's not good for the drivers, either, since they're treated as independent contractors rather than employees. 

And don't forget when one of the third-party delivery services (DoorDash?) was revealed to be using customers' tips toward paying the minimum amount the delivery service guaranteed to the driver (i.e., tip actually paid part/all of the delivery service's obligation).

It's all so foul, and successful because people have been trained not to do even a little legwork for themselves. 

 

Just now, Bastet said:

A friend from high school and I normally get together for lunch every year in Nov/Dec, but in 2018 we postponed to early 2019.  We kind of liked that better, so we were going to do the same for 2020.  But I pushed it back to April, since I was busy with work and preparations for my parents' 50th anniversary party in March.  So when we had to cancel the April lunch, we joked that maybe we'd wind up back on our Nov/Dec schedule, never dreaming things would still be so bad so many months later. 

I was supposed to have my 45th high school reunion this summer.  They informally pushed it to the Fall, and now that's off, too.  So it's just hanging, I guess.

I was soooo glad they cancelled it because it's in a part of the country that I could see ignoring COVID entirely.  I've always liked reunions because they're a way to see people I wouldn't normally keep up with, but I have a history with and I'm just curious.  I lived in the same town for all of my schooling, so there are people I went to first grade with.  My graduating class had 700 people in it, so there are lots of folks to run across every five years.

And I just want them to be just a grownup version of the kids I knew, which is why I'm not on Facebook or anything, because I don't want to know their political or religious leanings, and it's impossible not to know on FB.  It's always been easy to do it at a reunion, but obviously not if they hold the reunion against medical experts' advice, because that alone would tell me everything I don't want to know about the people who would be attending. 

I honestly can't see having one next summer, either.  And I'm not sure people want to have a 47th reunion, when 50th is right around the corner.  But maybe they'll have a "seize it when you can" attitude because who knows what pandemic we'll be having in 2025, plus we're not at the age where we're dropping like flies or anything, but still. 

Interestingly, in January a classmate who still lived in that town died of an unknown respiratory ailment, puzzling everyone (I have friends who still live there who know the ER doctors).  She'd recently been traveling internationally.

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I also go to the grocery store rather than doing curbside pickup - I am fussy and do not want someone else picking out my produce.  I've been going to my particular store on an almost weekly basis for about 25 years.  I know where things are, so I can write my list in the order I know they will be in the store, and thus am able to get in and out as quickly as possible.  Until this weekend, when I discovered that the store has decided in the middle of the pandemic to rearrange the entire produce section - ack!  I had to do a lot of going back and forth, trying to find multiple items, cursing under my breath the entire time.  Some things were at the opposite end of the entire section from where they had been.   Fortunately, I had gone early Saturday morning, so there weren't large numbers of people & carts to maneuver around, but everyone was backtracking a lot.

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31 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I was supposed to have my 45th high school reunion this summer.  They informally pushed it to the Fall, and now that's off, too.  So it's just hanging, I guess.

I was soooo glad they cancelled it because it's in a part of the country that I could see ignoring COVID entirely.  I've always liked reunions because they're a way to see people I wouldn't normally keep up with, but I have a history with and I'm just curious.  I lived in the same town for all of my schooling, so there are people I went to first grade with.  My graduating class had 700 people in it, so there are lots of folks to run across every five years.

And I just want them to be just a grownup version of the kids I knew, which is why I'm not on Facebook or anything, because I don't want to know their political or religious leanings, and it's impossible not to know on FB.  It's always been easy to do it at a reunion, but obviously not if they hold the reunion against medical experts' advice, because that alone would tell me everything I don't want to know about the people who would be attending. 

I honestly can't see having one next summer, either.  And I'm not sure people want to have a 47th reunion, when 50th is right around the corner.  But maybe they'll have a "seize it when you can" attitude because who knows what pandemic we'll be having in 2025, plus we're not at the age where we're dropping like flies or anything, but still.

My 45th reunion was also supposed to be this summer.  It was "suspended" pending events.  Our class has about 800 in it and it's fun to see the 60-100 people who show up every 5 years.  I wouldn't want to see them any more frequently, but it's nice at the interval.  I'm also not on any social media.  I always said if someone wants to find me, I'm in the phone book.  However, I don't think there are phone books anymore, so... no one can find me.  Too bad (not).  I'm still best friends with someone from way back in junior high, so he keeps me up to date about anyone I'd remotely care about.  It works.  

I hope we can do the 50th in 2025.  

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2 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Third-party restaurant delivery.  On the one hand, it seems like a great way to keep the restaurant in business.  But on the other hand, restaurants are being eaten alive by the third-party delivery services.  And the worst part is that their customers have no idea.  Giving a tip to the driver is nice, but that does nothing for the restaurant itself.

One of the restaurants I go to just started using one of those delivery services.  They are very clear that we should order from the website and not from the app directly.  I don't know if that makes a difference in the cut they're getting but we'll see how long they use it. They seem to be pretty aware restauranteurs but I also know of some restaurants which started using delibery services and ended up stopping.

One thing I like that this restaurant does is give an option for tipping the restaurant workers if you'd like.  It's like ordering a menu item and each "item" is $1.  So 5 of them equals a $5 tip.  But they also tack on a restaurant "health and wellness" fee to support providing benefits for their employees.  So while they allow tipping, I think they also don't rely on tipping to get their employees to minimum wage.

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We have a Walmart in the area that offers pick-up, but I'm not clear what they charge if anything.  I have avoided Walmart like the plague pandemic, because well, it's Walmart.

Walmart does free pickup.  I do think it's tough to get paper products through pickup but you can get most things including groceries.  My parents use Walmart.  I guess because it's cheaper and it's where they shop.  It's fine.  Whatever keeps them away from as much danger as possible.

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Today was the first day of a huge festival we have in my area, and the museum that I volunteer time at (as part of my local historical society work) opened so that we could have people visit that might not normally come by to see us (we're not usually open on Sundays).  Part of the open house was held outside, so that's where I was all day.  I wore a mask all of the time except when I was by myself or I was talking to someone who was at least a room's length away from me and used hand sanitizer every time I sat back down (it was a book sale fundraiser, so there was a lot of walking around to rearrange books and answer questions). But, since the governer just lifted the mask mandate (right before this huge money-maker of a festival, of course) I saw probably 10-15 people out of hundreds who passed by who were wearing masks.  I'm guessing we'll have a big uptick in Covid cases in the next couple of weeks.  And, like I said above, this is just the first day and it goes on all week, covering all of the local towns/cities in the area.  

It was still a fun event, though, and I met lots of interesting people (many from out-of-state).

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1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

That does remind me--I answered a survey like that once about a sandwich shop, where I complained that there was an employee standing right by the open door smoking, so I had to walk through that, and he followed me into the store to be the one to take my order andmake my sandwich.  Management actually replied, and said they were pretty sure they knew who it was, and thanked me for reporting it.  Something like a year later, at the table next to us was a manager and new employee going over the employee manual, and the manager said, "If you're going to take a smoke break, you have to go into the alley over there, or around the corner over there." 

When I was 17 I went to my mom's department's summer picnic thing with my parents, and being a fairly new driver they let me drive to the venue. For a little bit we had a car tailgating so closely that I couldn't even see the front of his car in my rearview mirror. Eventually he pulled up into the turn lane next to us at a light, and he had a local pizza restaurant sign on top of his car. My mom noted the name of the place and called them after we got home. The owner knew exactly who she was talking about and said it wasn't the first complaint he'd gotten about him. Hopefully he did something about it....

2 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I was supposed to have my 45th high school reunion this summer.  They informally pushed it to the Fall, and now that's off, too.  So it's just hanging, I guess.

My college does an alumni Octoberfest thing during Homecoming weekend and I think they're doing some kind of virtual thing this year. I wasn't going to go to Homecoming anyway (it's three hours away, for starters), so I probably won't do the virtual thing, either, but it's nice that they're finding a way to keep the tradition alive.

 

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I've been so careful about where I go and who I see.  I do have to go into work every now and then but I wear a mask, everyone has to wear a mask and I make sure I keep a good distance even masked.

So I don't know what happened to me today.  I was in my car, with the windows down, at a stoplight.  And someone came up to the car to try to talk to me.  I panicked.  I should have rolled up my windows but I didn't. 

And now I'm going to have to worry for the next few weeks. 

Why do we freeze? 

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My high stress level never goes down because I always feel like life forces me into situations that I don't feel comfortable with.  How could I get around being invited to an outdoor lunch at a golf club with my husband's rich client, who wanted to discuss paying us to house-sit for him while he and his lady friend are down in Florida?  There's just no way.  Even if I didn't go, my husband felt forced into it.  He couldn't say no, and I understand why.  They seem careful - we talked about mask effectiveness and such - she is a retired nurse and he is 2nd in command legal counsel at a major health insurance company who has been working from home since the pandemic.  He has a huge place down in Florida that they want to go to for the Winter - I get that, but it's still riskier down there than here.  I get it that at their level of rich they can avoid risky situations and still have a nice life, plus who wants to be in the Northeast for the Winter especially during the pandemic when they're likely to be cooped up for long stretches?  But they have to fly down there on an airplane like anyone else.  They went down to Florida earlier in the pandemic but came back up to CT when the Florida numbers went way up.  How they are taking commercial flights plus taking at least one limo. ride that wasn't in my husband's "pandemic proof" stretch limo. boggles the mind as they are both in their 60s.  They invited us to go down there for a visit sometime after things get safer.  That was very nice of them but neither of us is anywhere near ready to imagine getting on an airplane right now.

When they asked me how things were going with my Father's apartment plus how we were faring in general, I didn't sugarcoat anything.  I told them about my anxiety about finances and worrying about the future given that we have no income, and how I'm likely not to get that much from the sale of my dad's apartment.  He's a decent guy and they want to be friends of ours.  I like them a lot but yikes, we are in a crisis here with lots of issues.  It's hard for me to sit outside at the country club sipping sweet tea and feeling normal about it.  My husband hides it better than I do but I really didn't want to hide anything from them.  My husband's client ended up giving us a relatively generous "advance" on future work, but it was more than would be charged for that service even for a couple of years.  I'm sure they understand how my husband has this pride thing and that they need to do it under the guise of an "advance".  They were sympathetic and understanding but I don't think they can really wrap their minds around the horror that has been our lives since the pandemic.  I know that even rich people have worries about their future and the direction the world is going in, so I'm not insensitive to that, but it was really obvious to me that despite their understanding, in some ways they really can't 100% grasp how horrible it's been for us.  My husband hiding everything so well doesn't help.

It was a beautiful day to eat outside on a golf course, though.  I haven't had a meal in a restaurant setting with anyone other than my husband to eat lobster at the shore, and separately one friend who wanted to celebrate my birthday in August with me.  I was nervous on both occasions but we sat outside sufficiently social-distanced from everyone else, and there was always a nice breeze.  I seem to have "gotten away with" the first two times, but now I am again restarting the clock on worrying about THIS.  I keep going from one episode to another.  In the past few months I've had a mammogram, a pap smear, another in-office doctor visit and a blood test - all very overdue and necessary, but STRESSFUL.  I've had to have contractors come to the house - one to install a new air conditioning unit.  He had to come inside the house to install the thermostat.  I had to deal with the car dealership people last week - no way to get around that either.  Then there is the realtor who wants to meet me at my father's apartment to pick up keys while he brings over a contractor to do an estimate done on renovation.  Not what I want to do.  I wanted to drop the key off with the doorman.  I already had him "drop by" one time when I was at the apartment with a contractor.  I excused myself to the terrace and talked to them through the door.  Then there's also having my hair cut - I had it cut once in June after close to 6 months, and that was stressful enough but I need another cut now.  My stylist is great about giving me a 5 minute snip and out the door, and doing it when no one is in the salon, but I'm still not comfortable with it. 

I also have a dental appointment coming up in mid-October that I don't want to miss as it's been a while (ugh).  I know they are super careful with all the PPE but I still have nightmares about it.  It just goes on and on....

Everyone wants to get near me and I just want to stay away from everyone.  I envy you people who can stay away from other people but I am constantly feeling forced into situations that are outside my comfort zone!  I keep setting the clock back every few days.  It's ridiculous!  I want to go back to the lockdown period where I felt less anxiety because I wasn't setting foot outside the house unless it was to take a walk.  That may actually happen again if we really are going into a second wave.  It's going to be a long winter....

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Last night, I dreamed I was at a mall--which I rarely went to pre-pandemic--and after awhile, I began panicking because I realized neither I nor anyone else was wearing a mask. I've been having anxiety-filled dreams a for a few months now about people not wearing masks. 

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13 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

So I don't know what happened to me today.  I was in my car, with the windows down, at a stoplight.  And someone came up to the car to try to talk to me.  I panicked.  I should have rolled up my windows but I didn't. 

And now I'm going to have to worry for the next few weeks.

Would it help to keep in mind that when contact tracing, the standard is someone you were within six feet of for at least 15 minutes? 

That's what I use.  If I got it and they said, "Who have you been within six feet of for at least fifteen minutes in the last two weeks?" my answer would be "Mr. Outlier."  Nobody else.  I'm reassured that I'm doing exactly what the experts say.

We don't know what led to each of these millions of people getting infected, but all too often there was a family gathering or party or something that's an obvious no-no according to the medical experts.  Not doing that is going to go a long way toward keeping yourself safe.

That aside, why the hell was someone coming up to your window to talk to you when you were at a stoplight?  Even if they're not going to be near you for 15 minutes, why do it?  Jesus.  This is such a binary thing, and people still can't understand it. 

 

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

He has a huge place down in Florida that they want to go to for the Winter - I get that, but it's still riskier down there than here. 

Maybe, maybe not.  We're fixing to get into cold weather, and it will be interesting to see how warmer places fare, since people won't be inside as much as in colder climes.  Then again, Florida tends to be noncompliant on masks, so that will lean in the other direction.

Too bad all this is such a disaster because it's actually pretty interesting observing a single-mission virus fighting wild-card humans.

 

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

But they have to fly down there on an airplane like anyone else.  They went down to Florida earlier in the pandemic but came back up to CT when the Florida numbers went way up.  How they are taking commercial flights plus taking at least one limo. ride that wasn't in my husband's "pandemic proof" stretch limo. boggles the mind as they are both in their 60s. 

There's no way in hell I'd get on an airplane right now, but I did see something about how they might actually be relatively safe when it comes to aerosolized particles because they know a thing or two about air circulation and are beefing up their systems.  There's still the problem of being in close proximity to other people for an extended period of time, but that should be lessened with the mandatory masks. 

Most of my friends are in their 60s, and some of them are flying.  The irony is that I live in an RV, and I'm the only one I know who's not gallivanting around the country.  It actually kind of pisses me off.  Some are driving, but still.  STAY PUT!  My entire lifestyle is based on traveling around and I'M staying put IN A 400 SQUARE FOOT MOTORHOME that I don't leave for days at a time.

Also, from what I understand, people are still using Ubers and whatnot.  Basically, people are doing a lot of things that the most careful of us wouldn't do, and nobody I know who's traveling around has gotten it.  Maybe because they're careful once they make the initial decision to go.  Who knows.  But I think there's a lot of real estate between hermetically sealing oneself up and going to college parties.

 

10 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Then there is the realtor who wants to meet me at my father's apartment to pick up keys while he brings over a contractor to do an estimate done on renovation.  Not what I want to do.  I wanted to drop the key off with the doorman. 

Is there a reason you have to go?  Couldn't you Fed Ex the keys to the realtor?  (Make sure you keep copies, just in case.)

If the realtor is experienced in what renovations are advisable to get the quickest sale at the maximum price, all you'd be doing is saying "yes" or "no," and probably "yes."  "Paint the cabinets?"  "Put in new carpet?"  You don't have to be looking at the cabinets or carpet to make the decision.

People sell real estate from afar all the time. 

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There's no way in hell I'd get on an airplane right now, but I did see something about how they might actually be relatively safe when it comes to aerosolized particles because they know a thing or two about air circulation and are beefing up their systems.  There's still the problem of being in close proximity to other people for an extended period of time, but that should be lessened with the mandatory masks.

I also either read this or saw it on a news show,  They said the air is probably safer on planes right now due to their filtering systems, etc.  However, once someones sneezes within a certain distance from you, all bets are off if that person is not wearing a mask (and probably even while wearing one).

I've been following this thread without posting and have only known acquaintances of people who have had it luckily, but just found out my sister and one of her kids just tested positive.  Well, her child tested positive and she tested negative but now has symptoms.  The scary thing is my siblings and I had plans to meet yesterday with our mother in recognition of my dad passing a year ago.  I've only seen my mom a handful of times since March, and always outside wearing masks and 6 feet apart.  The fact that she agreed to go out in public at a restaurant with us was shocking.  But obviously it was cancelled once my sister told us they were all awaiting results.  So this likely means I won't see her much over the winter sadly, if at all.  I just wanna give my mom a hug 😞

Are people planning on getting together for the holidays this winter?  I know so many friends who have acted like everyone is fine and had parties and bbqs.  I didn't even have graduation parties for my kids.  I just don't know what to do.  We haven't seen my in-laws since before March and they've been less than cautious sad to say when they are high risk. Actually I think it'd be smart to avoid the holidays with family this year, but I loathe the protest we would certainly hear from my husband's parents.  

Edited by KLJ
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12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I also have a dental appointment coming up in mid-October that I don't want to miss as it's been a while (ugh).  I know they are super careful with all the PPE but I still have nightmares about it.  It just goes on and on....

I had a regular checkup scheduled for this month until I read that WHO is recommending that people stay away from dentists for the time being.

Quote

Consequently, all preventive care, checkups, aesthetic procedures, and cleanings ought to be postponed, the WHO says. "However, urgent or emergency oral health care interventions that are vital for preserving a person's oral functioning, managing severe pain or securing quality of life should be provided," they say. Still, anyone seeking urgent dental care ought to be pre-screened through a video call.

So i cancelled my appointment. 

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12 minutes ago, KLJ said:

I just wanna give my mom a hug 😞

I know how you feel. I have seen my parents (who are retired but do errands and stuff when needed, my dad has played golf and was going to physical therapy from February through May, but their church is doing virtual church which makes me feel a little better) and my brother (who is mostly working from home) but there has been no hugging. My mom's brother passed away a few weeks ago and I sort of half hugged her from the side at the funeral (and also hugged my cousin and his son briefly but turned my face away).

13 minutes ago, KLJ said:

Are people planning on getting together for the holidays this winter?  I know so many friends who have acted like everyone is fine and had parties and bbqs.  I didn't even have graduation parties for my kids.  I just don't know what to do.  We haven't seen my in-laws since before March and they've been less than cautious sad to say when they are high risk. Actually I think it'd be smart to avoid the holidays with family this year, but I loathe the protest we would certainly hear from my husband's parents.  

We did my birthday dinner on Saturday, at my parents' house, and they brought up Thanksgiving and Christmas, saying they will probably just have the four of us at their house (which is fine with me, because it saves me having to say I don't want us to go if the usual plans are happening). Usually there's a big family dinner at my uncle's for Thanksgiving, and my other uncle did Christmas up until a few years ago (his son has done it the last couple years). The parties have gotten smaller in recent years, with the 'kids' growing up and all, but still too many people crowded into a house for my comfort. (And now that his father is gone, there's a good chance my cousin will stay down at his other house in Florida, where he seems to spend most of his time these days.)

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7 minutes ago, GaT said:

I had a regular checkup scheduled for this month until I read that WHO is recommending that people stay away from dentists for the time being.

 

I went last month...he did the cleaning manually and no polishing (gave me a little refresher course on how to brush properly instead), and had me rinse with some kind of mouthwash for 30 seconds before he started (which tasted like regular mouthwash but I think messed up my mouth's microbiome for a few days).

I'm due for an eye appointment and a little freaked out about that prospect. Should have done it on one of my days off in the last couple weeks but I haven't brought myself to book the appointment.

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6 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Last night, I dreamed I was at a mall--which I rarely went to pre-pandemic--and after awhile, I began panicking because I realized neither I nor anyone else was wearing a mask. I've been having anxiety-filled dreams a for a few months now about people not wearing masks. 

I've been having dreams like that too. And to make matters worse, the mall is very far away from my home and I can't find my car. Or my phone. Or my wallet. And I'm just wandering around, alone, trying to figure out how to get home. Really, if I had a little dog, a scarecrow, a tinman and a lion with me it would not be more insane than it is.

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2 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Would it help to keep in mind that when contact tracing, the standard is someone you were within six feet of for at least 15 minutes? 

That's what I use.  If I got it and they said, "Who have you been within six feet of for at least fifteen minutes in the last two weeks?" my answer would be "Mr. Outlier."  Nobody else.  I'm reassured that I'm doing exactly what the experts say.

A little.  Except he was talking to me.  Not loud but still....

1 hour ago, KLJ said:

Are people planning on getting together for the holidays this winter?  I know so many friends who have acted like everyone is fine and had parties and bbqs.  I didn't even have graduation parties for my kids.  I just don't know what to do.  We haven't seen my in-laws since before March and they've been less than cautious sad to say when they are high risk. Actually I think it'd be smart to avoid the holidays with family this year, but I loathe the protest we would certainly hear from my husband's parents.  

My sister and I may quarantine and go see my parents but I've already told them that if they plan to see their siblings, it's a no go for me.  Even though my mom's sisters have health conditions which make them cautious and concerned for the virus, the more the circle expands, the likelier the chances are that someone is exposed.  If they choose to go see them after I see them, that's their choice.

58 minutes ago, GaT said:

I had a regular checkup scheduled for this month until I read that WHO is recommending that people stay away from dentists for the time being.

Yikes.  I have on in Nov. but I go three times a year.  This year, I might skip the third one.  Ours was no polish as well. 

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8 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

So, what's the problem with polish?

Because of the risk of aerosolizing the virus, the official recommendations are to limit use of certain dental tools. Anything like ultrasonic drills, polishing tools and the air/water syringe that could mix water with the saliva in a patient’s open mouth are to be avoided, if possible.

 

From:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-06-04/coronavirus-changes-dentist-appointments%3f_amp=true

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4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

A little.  Except he was talking to me.  Not loud but still....

But for how long?  If an infected person coughed or, especially, sneezed in close proximity, once could be enough to transmit enough particles to infect someone with a virus.  But expelling an infectious dose of particles via talking would take longer.  The formula for infection - and thus the rule in contract tracing - is exposure x time; the less the exposure generated by an activity, the longer one needs to be exposed in order to become infected. 

It's estimated as few as 1000 SARS-CoV2 particles could be an infectious dose.  We don't know how many infectious particles per minute can be released by a person with the virus, but with influenza it's 33.  So let's use 20 for simplicity.

If a person coughs or sneezes, a metric shit ton of particles go out into the air; most fall to go the ground, but there are so damn many that there are still enough that hang around in the air or land on surfaces to cause infection.  So if you are face-to-face with a person and get coughed or sneezed on, it's readily possible to inhale enough virus particles to get infected. 

But speaking would only - again, using 20 as the baseline, which is how many particles would be expelled per minute just from breathing - put about 200 particles per minute out there.  So even if you inhaled every one of those, to get to 1000 would take about five minutes of the infected person speaking close to you.

There is a lot more info in this piece widely shared this spring about the general science of infections by Dr. Erin Bromage.  With this being a novel virus, we still don't have specific numbers to plug into the formulas, but understanding the general principle is, I find, quite helpful in evaluating the relative risk of various interactions.

Edited by Bastet
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4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I've been having dreams like that too. And to make matters worse, the mall is very far away from my home and I can't find my car. Or my phone. Or my wallet. And I'm just wandering around, alone, trying to figure out how to get home. Really, if I had a little dog, a scarecrow, a tinman and a lion with me it would not be more insane than it is.

My  anxiety dream during the pandemic has been that I know someone in my family has the virus and is in the hospital, but no one will tell me who it is and I can't go in the hospital to find out.  

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1 minute ago, Calvada said:

My  anxiety dream during the pandemic has been that I know someone in my family has the virus and is in the hospital, but no one will tell me who it is and I can't go in the hospital to find out.  

Oh, yikes D:. That's up there on the "nightmare" meter, yeah. 

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5 hours ago, GaT said:

I had a regular checkup scheduled for this month until I read that WHO is recommending that people stay away from dentists for the time being.

So i cancelled my appointment. 

Strange. I work in a dental clinic and despite being considered in the 'red zone' with over a thousand cases the past four days, the dental organization in Quebec just sent out an email saying they're going to be doing mass promotion in newspapers and stuff ensuring clients that it's perfectly safe and secure to see a dentist because of all the precautions and PPE being taken/used. There are no plans to close at this point. 

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1 hour ago, Bastet said:

But for how long? 

100 hours. 😉  In reality?  Probably 30 seconds or so.  Still, in these times, it practically felt like a French kiss. Hmph.

3 minutes ago, jewel21 said:

Strange. I work in a dental clinic and despite being considered in the 'red zone' with over a thousand cases the past four days, the dental organization in Quebecl just sent out an email saying they're going to be doing mass promotion in newspapers and stuff ensuring clients that it's perfectly safe and secure to see a dentist because of all the precautions and PPE being taken/used.

So we're about 10 months into this pandemic--probably longer.  I don't mind WHO issuing guidelines but I kind of want to know "why now?"  Surely, the notion that dental work could put particles into the air isn't a new notion.  I went to the dentist three months ago and they were already doing the no polish thing. 

Dental offices have been open worldwide for cleanings and other kinds of work.  If there were an inordinate number of outbreaks or transmissions related to dental offices, that would be good information to share. 

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20 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Oh, yikes D:. That's up there on the "nightmare" meter, yeah. 

The worse was the night I had the dream and one of my sisters came up to me but was crying so hard she couldn't tell me who was sick. I knew it wasn't her, but I've got 7 other siblings, plus their spouses/partners, and over 20 nieces and nephews and great nieces and nephews.  

Then I wake up, my work day starts, and my boss wants the daily report I have to do about cases/hospitalizations/deaths etc. in our state and county.  Gosh, I wonder why I have these dreams?

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*Sends virtual hugs to you* That's rough, I'm so sorry. I hope you start having happier dreams to counter those or something!

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30 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

100 hours. 😉  In reality?  Probably 30 seconds or so.  Still, in these times, it practically felt like a French kiss. Hmph.

So we're about 10 months into this pandemic--probably longer.  I don't mind WHO issuing guidelines but I kind of want to know "why now?"  Surely, the notion that dental work could put particles into the air isn't a new notion.  I went to the dentist three months ago and they were already doing the no polish thing. 

Dental offices have been open worldwide for cleanings and other kinds of work.  If there were an inordinate number of outbreaks or transmissions related to dental offices, that would be good information to share. 

Absolutely. 

According to the Ordre des Dentists du Quebec and the ACDQ, there have been no cases/outbreaks associated with a dental clinic since we went back to work in June. I wonder where the WHO is getting their information/guidelines. 

 

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6 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I'm due for an eye appointment and a little freaked out about that prospect.

I had one. With everyone wearing masks, it's not a problem.

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5 minutes ago, supposebly said:

I had one. With everyone wearing masks, it's not a problem.

Thanks, that makes me feel a little better.

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I'm getting my hair cut in a week and I'm a little nervous about that.  I really want a cut but then I realize, I can't control whether or not others wear masks. 

For anyone who has had a cut and color, did people leave their masks on the whole time?

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3 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm getting my hair cut in a week and I'm a little nervous about that.  I really want a cut but then I realize, I can't control whether or not others wear masks. 

For anyone who has had a cut and color, did people leave their masks on the whole time?

I had my hair cut a couple weeks ago. I got an early appointment on a weekday, when I figured it would be less busy, everyone was wearing masks (it's mandated in NJ) and my stylist had moved from her usual chair to allow for more distance. (They also checked my temp and had me sign a paper acknowledging potential risk. And then keep the pen.)

(I don't get my hair washed or colored, though)

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Hair cut is the last on my order of worry.  I just bought 2 huge 5.5" clips to pull my hair up and they will work for a long time. I'll let my hair grow as long as Rapunzel needs to let her hair down to someone to climb the tower before I feel safe going to a salon.

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36 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm getting my hair cut in a week and I'm a little nervous about that.  I really want a cut but then I realize, I can't control whether or not others wear masks. 

For anyone who has had a cut and color, did people leave their masks on the whole time?

I had my hair washed, cut and styled.  The guidelines are very strict where I live.  Only the stylist and I were in the rather large salon.  Everything was sanitized and allowed to dry before anyone could enter.  I had to use sanitizer at the door, the n go to the back to wash my hands.  The door was open so I wouldn't need to touch it.  One key, wear a mask that goes behind your ears.  You need to keep it on the whole time.  Stylist was wearing a well fit cloth mask with an internal filter. 

I can understand people thinking it's not worth the risk.  I will be on stage in a few weeks and for me this was good for my mental health, especially since I am growing out grey and the areas that thinned from chemo are growing back in.  

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1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm getting my hair cut in a week and I'm a little nervous about that.  I really want a cut but then I realize, I can't control whether or not others wear masks. 

For anyone who has had a cut and color, did people leave their masks on the whole time?

I've been to the hairdresser twice for a colour, cut, and blow dry. Everyone is wearing masks, including myself, the entire time. There's hand sanitizer when you come in. And they have partitions between the work stations and between the chairs in the shampoo area. 

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9 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

There's no way in hell I'd get on an airplane right now, but I did see something about how they might actually be relatively safe when it comes to aerosolized particles because they know a thing or two about air circulation and are beefing up their systems.  There's still the problem of being in close proximity to other people for an extended period of time, but that should be lessened with the mandatory masks. 

I certainly hope so, although I have heard some horror stories about flights packed to capacity with no social distancing, etc.  I still have PTSD from a flight I took back from London 36 years ago.  I sat behind an older man who was coughing and blowing his nose the entire way home.  I knew I was a sitting duck.  I ended up with the worst flu of my entire life.  I was on my back for 10 days with a high fever of 103.  I was delirious and talking in gibberish.  It was extremely scary.  I was in my 20s then, but imagine if I were the age I am NOW!!  I don't think I'd survive!  So I don't think I'd risk it anyway, even with masks and improved ventilation.  Masks aren't really designed to protect you from people doing anything other than routine breathing.  Once they start coughing, sneezing, blowing their nose, or even shouting, singing, etc. mask effectiveness goes down.
 

9 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Is there a reason you have to go?  Couldn't you Fed Ex the keys to the realtor?  (Make sure you keep copies, just in case.)

If the realtor is experienced in what renovations are advisable to get the quickest sale at the maximum price, all you'd be doing is saying "yes" or "no," and probably "yes."  "Paint the cabinets?"  "Put in new carpet?"  You don't have to be looking at the cabinets or carpet to make the decision.

People sell real estate from afar all the time. 

Actually the realtor told me today that he's changed to going there on Wednesday anyway, so I am off the hook for that, thankfully.  I'm still going down there for my own reasons (to get my father's ashes and a couple of final things from the apt.) so I'll just drop the keys off with the doorman to give the realtor next time he goes there.  After this I don't think I'll need to be going down there very much.

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1 hour ago, Gramto6 said:

Hair cut is the last on my order of worry.  I just bought 2 huge 5.5" clips to pull my hair up and they will work for a long time. I'll let my hair grow as long as Rapunzel needs to let her hair down to someone to climb the tower before I feel safe going to a salon.

I just bought a bunch of huge clips as well!  I have *so much* hair that it's the only way I can manage it at this point.  I accidentally came across the date of my last haircut on my Google calendar, and it was 11 months ago.  My hair is very thick and rather frizzy so I have to have the clips.  I feel for my hairdresser, I hope his business is holding up, but I am going to wait a little longer.

I recently had my physical, my doctor and the technicians did a good job - first time I had seen those medical face shields - and I was able to get my flu and senior pneumonia vaccine as well.  The issue I've had the last 5 weeks, though, has been my left ear, it has been hurting a lot, early on I literally could not sleep for hours at times while lying down with it.  It's better now, but I saw a nice ENT doctor today who took out a lot of wax but said I need to try to get more out with the drops.  I will see him again soon.  So hopefully that's all it is.  

No dentist for me either.  Mine hasn't even contacted me yet.   I did have an eye appointment that I canceled because I wasn't feeling well, I will try to get to that soon.

 

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8 hours ago, KLJ said:

Are people planning on getting together for the holidays this winter?  I know so many friends who have acted like everyone is fine and had parties and bbqs.  I didn't even have graduation parties for my kids.  I just don't know what to do.  We haven't seen my in-laws since before March and they've been less than cautious sad to say when they are high risk. Actually I think it'd be smart to avoid the holidays with family this year, but I loathe the protest we would certainly hear from my husband's parents.  

Would you?  Most older people I know are trying to stay away from indoor family gatherings.  Thankfully my husband's sister and her husband are being ultra careful since he is being treated for pancreatic cancer (his odds are actually very good because they caught it VERY early).  Plus he is a type 2 diabetic and 68 years old, so no one is going to have holidays this year, unfortunately.  I think we'll probably arrange to have a nice Zoom together, though, just to feel as close to normal as possible.

8 hours ago, GaT said:

I had a regular checkup scheduled for this month until I read that WHO is recommending that people stay away from dentists for the time being.

So i cancelled my appointment. 

Yikes, now I want to cancel mine too!  😮

I will go for my haircut appointment, though.  As long as I am the only person in the salon with my stylist and there's no shampoo (I come with wet hair) and leave without a blow dry, I'm fine.  Plus we both wear masks of course (mandated).  I have past shoulder length hair but it only takes about 5 minutes to cut.  Right now it has grown as much since June as it did from the January - June before that.  I never really kept track but I guess it really does grow that much more in the summer than the winter.

Speaking of eye appointments, I managed to get another year of contacts out of my eye doctor because of the pandemic, even though my prescription had expired.  I am not going out as often so I don't wear my lenses part of the time, which will stretch them out even longer.  I'm in no rush to go to the eye dr.

 

Edited by Yeah No
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I meant to comment on the family get together question.   My siblings and I talked about it over Google Duo on Sunday.  We've decided not to attempt a live Thanksgiving.  It wouldn't be just us, it would involve extended family and I agree that it would be very difficult to manage.  I imagine we will do a lot of video chatting instead.

It's odd though to realize how long it's been since I've seen any of them in person - since the end of January I think, when we had a dinner.  It may end up being over a year if there's no vaccine before then.

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1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm getting my hair cut in a week and I'm a little nervous about that.  I really want a cut but then I realize, I can't control whether or not others wear masks. 

For anyone who has had a cut and color, did people leave their masks on the whole time?

Yikes; I'm always sympathetic when I hear the worry of people who live where masks are not required, leaving it up to individual businesses or, worse, people at large. 

I don't color, and haven't had a cut because I don't care enough to add that to my miniscule list of interactions, but on general principle: With the government not providing that protection, I think the thing to do is contact the salon and ask their policy.  If they're not requiring stylists and clients to wear masks, I'd say either go elsewhere or continue to wait; a hairdo is not something worth being that close to an unmasked person (who'll undoubtedly talk for at least part of the time) for - and certainly not worth patronizing an establishment that won't do something as simple as wear and require customers to wear masks for public health in the midst of a pandemic.

I don't know from specific experience, because I've hardly gone anywhere, and masks are required here, but I'd think businesses doing right by their employees and customers would be happy to tell you the safety procedures they're employing - limiting the number of people, assuring ventilation, requiring masks, sanitizing commonly-touched surfaces, etc.  After all this time, and being able to re-open only if it's safe to do so, they ought to have it down, and be happy to share when asked.

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8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

For anyone who has had a cut and color, did people leave their masks on the whole time?

I went to a a new place last month because my normal place changed their color line and my stylist has been unable to get the color the way I want it. Anyway, I was sitting in the chair in this very small place when two women came in together. One had a mask on the other did not. Maskless woman said to the stylist she came in to see, "Can I hug you? It's been so long!" Other stylist: "Of course!" I'm like Oh-my-godding-it so hard it my head it's not even funny. Like, I just can't get up and leave! After hugging her stylist, she deigns to put her mask on. (Other stylist is wearing what I call a "face cape" -- a piece of cloth that's covering her nose but flapping in the wind at the bottom.) However, the masked woman she was with -- the mask kept falling below her mouth and eventually she just took it off. By this time, my stylist was done with the highlights and color and I told her that I was going to sit outside while I processed because the other woman wasn't wearing her mask and I felt uncomfortable. She looked over and said, "Oh, I didn't even notice that." Lady, you OWN THE PLACE! So, I sat outside and awhile later the stylist came out and said she asked the woman to put her mask back on. I was like, "Oh, thank you but I'll wait out here until it's time to rinse this out." When I went back in, her mask was back on but still falling off. I got rinsed and left without a blow dry. 

That being said, I use another salon for haircuts. They're totally fine -- never had a problem with people being too close or not wearing a mask. 

I've been getting my hair done since lockdown was lifted in June and that bad experience was the only one I've had so far. I'm debating on going back there ... which is hard because they gave me exactly the color I've long been wanting. 😞

Edited by Giant Misfit
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9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm getting my hair cut in a week and I'm a little nervous about that.  I really want a cut but then I realize, I can't control whether or not others wear masks. 

For anyone who has had a cut and color, did people leave their masks on the whole time?

Masks are a mandate in my state (CT).  Plus I'm not sure if this has changed since June, but my salon is not blow drying or shampooing.  I'm not sure what the state rule is about this right now.  As far as coloring goes, I have always done my own color out of a box - L'Oreal Prefrence.  And even my stylist says it looks great and not to change a thing.  I am a single process brunette so it's not so complicated.  Right now I am happy about that.  I feel sorry for some of my friends who have all sorts of things done that they can't really handle themselves.  My stylist told her clients on her Facebook page that if they were having professional coloring done they shouldn't attempt to use drug store brand hair color during the lockdown or they can really mess things up for later on.  She's not the type to say that just to make money either (obviously since she told me to continue coloring my own hair, LOL).

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My boyfriend and I have been dyeing my hair with some interesting results. I'm naturally dishwater blonde (medium ash blonde, about a level 😎 (that was supposed to be an eight and closed parenthesis but turned into that guy and now I can't get rid of him) but dye it 6RV (I call it "cherry cola" when it looks like it's supposed to). Because I'm not a professional and the color lines at Sally Beauty vary wildly especially since I'm ordering online, it's been quite the experiment. Trial #3 will be happening in the next couple of weeks. I was going to the local hair school for color and cut pre-pandemic.

I almost always have my hair up in clips because it's almost to my waist and longer than it has ever been in my life. It takes forever to wash and condition and then the post-wash anti-frizz treatment while I airdry. It's a whole thing.

I can totally understand those who don't have long hair needing to get a cut, but I just don't feel comfortable getting a cut, despite how badly I need it.

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2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

 they shouldn't attempt to use drug store brand hair color during the lockdown or they can really mess things up for later on.  

I've had stylists tell me this in the past, that it apparently makes it harder for it to take the color they're trying to do, but I'm too scared to get mine professionally done until there's a vaccine that's proven to be effective and I have too much gray to let it go, even working from home, I occasionally have Teams meetings where we have to be on video so I do my own and when I do get it done professionally again they'll just have to deal with it.

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39 minutes ago, partofme said:

I've had stylists tell me this in the past, that it apparently makes it harder for it to take the color they're trying to do, but I'm too scared to get mine professionally done until there's a vaccine that's proven to be effective and I have too much gray to let it go, even working from home, I occasionally have Teams meetings where we have to be on video so I do my own and when I do get it done professionally again they'll just have to deal with it.

I've been coloring my own hair since Jr. High. Never had a problem.

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12 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm getting my hair cut in a week and I'm a little nervous about that.  I really want a cut but then I realize, I can't control whether or not others wear masks. 

For anyone who has had a cut and color, did people leave their masks on the whole time?

I suggest you call your salon and find out what their protocols are and even contact your stylist to find out if they are 'back to normal' or still being careful in their off-time. The salon my stylist works at requires masks to be worn by all customers at all times. They must be the over the ear loop and your stylist greets you at the door to take your temperature, ask the standard COVID questions and confirm you have the correct type of mask on. If you have an over the head strap you aren't allowed in as they don't want people holding them.

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