S40.E12: Friendly Fire

[skybolt]

51 minutes ago, AncientNewbie said:

 

I get it, I just wished they focused some on the unsuccessful moves and sometimes sent us to tribal not knowing Tony will escaped unscathed yet again.

Yup. Great point. I hate to say this, but it does seem like most of the remaining players echo what Denise said at tribal. They just want to huddle and come up with a plan to vote out someone in 5 minutes and then go back to relaxing the rest of the day. If for instance, Tony was voted out after Tyson, the episodes would've mostly consisted of players being cagey at tribal, and producers being forced to show the reward challenges and Rob talking to Tyson about fishing on EoE.

I hate the whispering at tribal as much as everyone else, but all the ex survivor players note that tribal councils usually last a couple of hours and can be very tedious. If most of the responses to Jeff's questions are cookie cutter, canned answers, the TPTB have to resort to showcasing the whispering, which is a bit more unpredictable. For instance, every time Jeff asks Ben a question, he just adds an adjective in front and repeats what Jeff said, "hey Ben, was it quiet at camp today?". Yeah Jeff, it was real quiet today". "Michelle, how difficult is to strategize  in a season with all winners?". "I don't know Jeff, I've been hoodwinked at each tribal, so I have no clue what's going on".

I understand players wanting to keep information to themselves, but I also understand the TPTB editing out their canned answers. I also believe that what we see during the episode is what we get from these players. It's basically either Kim, Nick or whoever throwing out a name of someone they want to vote out and then going back to their scheduled programming after 5 minutes. There's no Plan B or C if someone like Tony throws a curve ball at tribal. I'm not sure if these winners became complacent after their respective wins or if voting out the consensus big threat became so easy after all the old schoolers were picked off one by one.

Edited May 5, 2020 by skybolt

[Hera]

6 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

Brainstormy daydreaming, but I wonder how much time and effort would go into CBS revisiting older seasons (or even this one) for a Director's Cut long form version...like you see Samoa with Dave Ball and Brett having an alliance and how it sputters, or you get Michelle and whoever having a genuine chat in the shelter, and all the stuff that goes into the game but isn't relevant enough to the final tribal to get into the show. I'd probably even pay a premium on my CBS subscription for it, if if was done in a more documentary fashion and not just Rob/Coach/Hantz confessionals.

I would love for the editing to at least try to be even-handed in terms of how much everyone is featured. I don't know if I would ever root for Tony to win, but it would be a lot easier if I didn't feel like the editing was trying to prod me into it by showing a lot of him and very little of anyone else. I get that some people are more engaging and entertaining in confessionals than others (although I think the producers frequently mistake "brash and boastful" for "entertaining"), but I find it hard to believe that none of the people with lower-key personalities have interesting thoughts or insights about the game to offer, especially on this season.

[skybolt]

14 hours ago, Hera said:

I would love for the editing to at least try to be even-handed in terms of how much everyone is featured. I don't know if I would ever root for Tony to win, but it would be a lot easier if I didn't feel like the editing was trying to prod me into it by showing a lot of him and very little of anyone else. I get that some people are more engaging and entertaining in confessionals than others (although I think the producers frequently mistake "brash and boastful" for "entertaining"), but I find it hard to believe that none of the people with lower-key personalities have interesting thoughts or insights about the game to offer, especially on this season.

At the end of the day it's all about ratings. TPTB will showcase crazy confessionals and dynamic play over behind the scenes cagey game play every time. The message they want to send out to future contestants is that whether you win or lose, if you want more air time then you need to be entertaining and transparent, especially at confessionals. That is why Adam had more than twice as many confessionals as Tony at one point because he was entertaining, while Tony was laying back. Devoted fans like you and I will still watch the show for its intricacies, but the casual fans (which is the majority) want riveting television. It's the same with game shows where contestants are asked to go nuts over prizes.

[AncientNewbie]

50 minutes ago, skybolt said:

Devoted fans like you and I will still watch the show for its intricacies, but the casual fans (which is the majority) want riveting television.

 

I get it, but...I'd just be a lot more riveted by Kim and Denise planning something than Tony climbing a tree and Sarah talking to a tree.

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, skybolt said:

Devoted fans like you and I will still watch the show for its intricacies, but the casual fans (which is the majority) want riveting television. 

Well then, the casual fans aren't getting what they want either lol.

[skybolt]

16 minutes ago, AncientNewbie said:

 

I get it, but...I'd just be a lot more riveted by Kim and Denise planning something than Tony climbing a tree and Sarah talking to a tree.

Based on the previews I think the tree will come into play this week. As far as Kim and Denise are concerned I do think that we saw the extent of their plan. "Hey, Tony is a big threat, let's vote him out. Let's not talk about it anymore." It's sort of what Ethan described recently where all Jeremy did was ask who he was voting for and as soon as a name was thrown out, he went and told the others. Even with the Sophie vote out. we basically saw Sarah telling Kim and Denise the plan, them telling Jeremy he was safe, and then everyone feeling comfortable. Not sure what else editing can show if this was the extent of the plan. I'm not saying it's necessarily bad game play, since we've seen plenty of low key people win the game, but it is what it is.

The one thing I will say is that if these players believe that production will negatively impact their game if they reveal too much at confessionals, then it's a huge problem for the show. In previous seasons Jeff just asked the questions and never jeopardized anyone's game. However, I had heard rumors that he wanted more control over what was happening and was willing to quit until that happened. Since then he has caused more drama at tribal by tipping players to blindsides.

[skybolt]

20 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Well then, the casual fans aren't getting what they want either lol.

Definitely not in my top 10 seasons of all time. That's why I would prefer a season of runner ups who haven't won yet and are still hungry.

Edited May 6, 2020 by skybolt

[peachmangosteen]

Well then lol. I guess I just can't understand what's so riveting about not being able to understand at all what is happening at TC or players who seemingly all wait until TC to decide how to vote/change their minds about how they're gonna vote at TC.

The thing I appreciate about this season is that they're showing some fun moments/some camp life moments but I think the game play sucks/is boring, which is even more frustrating in a season with all winners.

[skybolt]

11 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Well then lol. I guess I just can't understand what's so riveting about not being able to understand at all what is happening at TC or players who seemingly all wait until TC to decide/change their minds about how they're gonna vote at TC.

The thing I appreciate about this season is that they're showing some fun moments/some camp life moments but I think the game play sucks/is boring, which is even more frustrating in a season with all winners.

Sorry, I had a typo. It was supposed to say NOT in my Top 10. 🙂

Edited May 6, 2020 by skybolt

[AncientNewbie]

I think this whole discussion hits on the weirdness of this season. They don't have their usual dumb mactors and bombastic clowns and the fodder that fills episodes. In order to not look like there's an error in their game, they have to present these people in a largely positive light because they either need them to come back or need them to keep promoting the product. These are also the people who don't apologize like Dan F. or talk to chickens like Shambo or provide intense campfire conflict like Fairplay, so even if there wasn't a bias in the edit, there's not the content to even edit.

Which is why I'm going to keep complaining about the Tony show. He deserves attention and he seems to be playing well, but he's the one that fits their model of "good tv" so we get a lot of him and a superedit where he's shown as the only one even in the game. In reality I'm sure every one of them is playing a game and we're not getting any insight into what it is--even if it's "tell me on the way to tribal" there's a why to that which isn't being explored. Arguably, it's an active choice not to explore it, because (as was said wisely above) production wants a steady stream of Coach and NaOnka where a Kim or Denise is more likely to win an average season, but quietly and steadfastly without drama. Or rather, as a tldr to this whole thing, without the sort of drama the show loves to see.

[skybolt]

1 hour ago, AncientNewbie said:

I think this whole discussion hits on the weirdness of this season. They don't have their usual dumb mactors and bombastic clowns and the fodder that fills episodes. In order to not look like there's an error in their game, they have to present these people in a largely positive light because they either need them to come back or need them to keep promoting the product. These are also the people who don't apologize like Dan F. or talk to chickens like Shambo or provide intense campfire conflict like Fairplay, so even if there wasn't a bias in the edit, there's not the content to even edit.

Which is why I'm going to keep complaining about the Tony show. He deserves attention and he seems to be playing well, but he's the one that fits their model of "good tv" so we get a lot of him and a superedit where he's shown as the only one even in the game. In reality I'm sure every one of them is playing a game and we're not getting any insight into what it is--even if it's "tell me on the way to tribal" there's a why to that which isn't being explored. Arguably, it's an active choice not to explore it, because (as was said wisely above) production wants a steady stream of Coach and NaOnka where a Kim or Denise is more likely to win an average season, but quietly and steadfastly without drama. Or rather, as a tldr to this whole thing, without the sort of drama the show loves to see.

Very well said. It seems like TPTB are not particularly interested in giving the winner the proper edit they deserve. For instance, if Tony does not win, then the actual winner is likely getting shortchanged. That being said, I do believe we've seen plenty of Michelle this season (good or bad), where if she winds up winning, her edit will be fair. Same with maybe Sarah, a few of the EoE players (Parvati, Rob, Natalie, Tyson, Wendell, Adam, Sophie) and Jeremy. If Denise, Nick or Ben wind up winning then I definitely think they should've been given more air time, even if it was scratching their behind.

[ByaNose]

I'm always torn over the airtime for a contestant. It seems almost too obvious that Tony is the winner. Yet, he's the only who really playing the game & entertaining (to some) while doing it. If he isn't the winner then whomever is in the Final 3 would have to get major airtime with the next 5 hours coming forth. I guess that's enough time to give them a winners edit. Of course, the other 12 episodes might not reflect that. I guess I'll say it's either Tony or Sarah (or both) in the finals with a 0 vote person rounding out the Final 3.

[skybolt]

9 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

I'm always torn over the airtime for a contestant. It seems almost too obvious that Tony is the winner. Yet, he's the only who really playing the game & entertaining (to some) while doing it. If he isn't the winner then whomever is in the Final 3 would have to get major airtime with the next 5 hours coming forth. I guess that's enough time to give them a winners edit. Of course, the other 12 episodes might not reflect that. I guess I'll say it's either Tony or Sarah (or both) in the finals with a 0 vote person rounding out the Final 3.

I get that feeling as well. I think it's a combination of Tony, Sarah, Michelle and a returning player in the final 3. My gut tells me it's Sarah, Michelle and the EoE returnee beating Tony in the fire making challenge.

[ByaNose]

24 minutes ago, skybolt said:

I get that feeling as well. I think it's a combination of Tony, Sarah, Michelle and a returning player in the final 3. My gut tells me it's Sarah, Michelle and the EoE returnee beating Tony in the fire making challenge.

I totally forgot about the fire making challenge. Usually, there some early fire making storyline but this season I don't recall seeing anyone making one or talking about it. I was thinking more of the EoE person returning and just forgot about fire. That should be interesting to see how that plays out.

[skybolt]

19 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

I totally forgot about the fire making challenge. Usually, there some early fire making storyline but this season I don't recall seeing anyone making one or talking about it. I was thinking more of the EoE person returning and just forgot about fire. That should be interesting to see how that plays out.

Unless it's Jeremy vs. Ben. That would be something. Jeremy would be glancing at Ben in a taunting fashion as his fire is building, while Ben will start grunting and asking Jeff why he's making this fire on his own since no one is sitting next to him.

Edited May 6, 2020 by skybolt

[Eolivet]

1 hour ago, skybolt said:

That being said, I do believe we've seen plenty of Michelle this season (good or bad), where if she winds up winning, her edit will be fair. Same with maybe Sarah, a few of the EoE players (Parvati, Rob, Natalie, Tyson, Wendell, Adam, Sophie) and Jeremy.

Emphasis mine.

If Wendell or Adam win this season, the entire editing staff should be fired. Wendell was shown as an all-talk-no-action showboat in a ripped-from-MTV Ex on the Beach subplot with Michele, and Adam was shown as the basket case who couldn't figure out where to put his torch, alienated everyone on his tribe and then tried to play a podium to save himself.

Forget firing them: if Wendell or Adam wins this season, whatever film school the editors graduated from should revoke their diplomas on principle.