S01.E05: Phyllis & Fred & Brenda & Marc

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Phyllis and Fred Schiafly gets into a heating debate with superstar Feminist couple Brenda and Marc Feigan-Fasteau on television.

Original air date: 4/29/20

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

What’s Fact and What’s Fiction in Mrs. America Episode 5

[bmoore4026]

Hate to say it, but I just don't know what to make of this episode.  Maybe it's because I don't know much about Brenda and Marc Fasteau.  I do think Brenda ended her fling with Jules because she was afraid of how the rest of the movement would see her.  Given Betty's views on homosexuals, she'd be pushing for Brenda to be kicked out rather than giving naysayers "proof" that the ERA movement is made up of "angry lesbians".

Also, I was watching this episode with my mother and right off the bat things were awkward with that x-rated grotesque cheap ass "play".

So Gloria Steinman had two lovers.  Interesting.  Don't anybody tell me how this is going to blow up, please.  I wanna be surprised 😉

That scene with Phyllis and the guy who returned her son's wallet was actually a bit chilling.  He knows where they live.  Who's to say he won't show up again for a little more "gratuity" for returning that wallet.  And as much as I didn't like the implication, I found her veiled "quitting smoking" story impressive.  She didn't reject her son but she knows...and knows what damage will happen to her and her movement if he is found out to be a homosexual.

And I could understand the anger Phyllis had at her husband.  She wants his respect but being called "submissive" on national television was a huge blow to her and her intelligence.  All she wants, ironically, is for intelligence to be respected but she'll never get that in the kind of world she's in.

Can someone explain to me what was going on when Phyllis showed up at the office and found out Fred moved to another office?  Was he demoted or something?

Margaret leaving Ms.  felt like an afterthought to me.  Maybe because we didn't get a whole lot of time with her.  She just seemed brushed aside.

And what the hell was up with that lady with the megaphone?

 

 

[IndyMischa]

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What’s Fact and What’s Fiction in Mrs. America Episode 5

Thanks so much for posting these, EB. Great background info on each ep! 

[stonehaven]

I really wasn't all that interested in the main couple of the episode but I did hurt for Phyllis when she was called submissive on TV. I think her law school desire works on two levels. She wants to be better armed with arguments and prove to the other side that she's not "just" a housewife but also serves as a bit of a mid-life crisis point for her as well.

My highlight may seem like a dumb one but hearing The New Seekers "Free To Be You and Me" warmed my folk/banjo loving heart.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Seth Cohen!

I loved when Brenda ripped Phyllis for making up a case. I am the kind of person who always wants a primary source whenever people post articles online. I work in science so it drives me crazy when I see watered down summaries of scientific research in the mainstream press. It's the equivalent of taking a statement of fact like "Mariah Carey has had 18 #1 songs" and blurring it out to "a female singer had some success."

I couldn't figure out why the actress who played Brenda looked so familiar to me. It was driving me crazy for the entire episode. I finally looked her up afterward and she played Jessie Doyle on Veronica Mars.

I totally cracked up when Jules said that Margaret said she was moving to San Francisco and Margaret said, "No. Oakland." I later laughed when Margaret told Gloria she was leaving and said the schools in Oakland were better, only to have Frank ask Gloria, "Did she tell you that?"

[Cara]

From Phyllis Schlafly’s daughter:

“Re: Mrs. America, episode 5 -- There are SO many inaccuracies in Mrs. America in all the episodes. Episode 5 was particularly awful on Fred Schlafly.

1. He was not an "estate" lawyer; he was a corporate lawyer and his clients included Shell Oil and Amoco (both of whom had refineries near Alton).

2. His firm was "Schlafly, Godfrey, Fitzgerard" -- he could not have been demoted and kicked out of his own office.

3. He enjoyed being called "Mr. Phyllis" in the Alton Telegraph. He had a great sense of humor and loved it. The interview that he did for the newspaper with his photo was done at the 50th anniversary of his legal career; right before he retired.

4. Yes, he joked that he thanked the voters who did not vote for his wife. It was a joke and everyone understood it as funny, including PS. Snyder presents it as a cutting remark.

5. He fully supported PS. He relished her accomplishments.

6. Yes, his first reaction was: you don't need to go to law school. That lasted overnight. Then he said that she absolutely should because it would build her case against ERA. It was Sen Birch Bayh who said he would not debate PS because she was not a lawyer. That settled it; both PS and Fred wanted to prove Bayh wrong.

7. The argument in the hotel room is really obnoxious. They did not have a contentious marriage and did not have a quid-pro-quo marriage. PS would not have argued that she was finished raising his children. For them, the family and the work was a joint effort. I guess PS slaps herself to keep from crying? Bizarre.

8. PS did not know how to play the piano.

9. I never saw PS in Fred's office; I do not think she ever would have gone into his office.

10. PS was always over-prepared for every debate or speech. It is not possible that she would not have remembered a name of a legal case or that Fred would seemingly enjoy her floundering. I have not seen a copy of the original Snyder show debate, but I also heard PS describe it as a win for her.

11. Fred did not argue against smoking because it was "unladylike." Fred was a health and fitness nut who thought smoking was unhealthy. When each of his children (both male and female) reached 21 years without taking up the smoking habit, he gave a $1,000 bonus.”

Anne Schlafly Cori

[MerBearStare]

6 hours ago, Cara said:

I have not seen a copy of the original Snyder show debate, but I also heard PS describe it as a win for her.

Yeah because she totally would have admitted she lost 🙄🙄🙄

6 hours ago, Cara said:

2. His firm was "Schlafly, Godfrey, Fitzgerard" -- he could not have been demoted and kicked out of his own office.

That part was the weakest point in the episode I thought. Earlier in the episode he said it was his law firm, so I was confused when he was demoted.

[gooberfish]

So, why did they include the office part? It wasn’t important or interesting. It appears that it wasn’t even accurate. Puzzled. 

[Kirkydee]

16 hours ago, gooberfish said:

So, why did they include the office part? It wasn’t important or interesting. It appears that it wasn’t even accurate. Puzzled. 

It doesnt appeared accurate, but I interpreted the scene as PS playing the role of dutiful wife.  She saw her husband in a potentially embarrassing situation.  But instead of saying "Hi hubby!" she quietly left.  Similar to the sex scene she had when she let her husband 'do it' when she wanted a few minutes to take out her contacts. She sees her role as a wife to not upset her husband. Some may see that as submissive. She sees it as her place and responsibility IMO

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, Kirkydee said:

It doesnt appeared accurate, but I interpreted the scene as PS playing the role of dutiful wife.  She saw her husband in a potentially embarrassing situation.  But instead of saying "Hi hubby!" she quietly left.  Similar to the sex scene she had when she let her husband 'do it' when she wanted a few minutes to take out her contacts. She sees her role as a wife to not upset her husband. Some may see that as submissive. She sees it as her place and responsibility IMO

Are we supposed to read it as him potentially being "punished" for having such an outspoken wife with unpopular views?

[tennisgurl]

Adam Brody! 

Brenda just straight up destroyed Phyllis, that debate sure went better than the last one for the libbers! Brenda just calling Phyllis out on making crap up was amazing, thats what you get for using nonsense soundbites. We actually saw Phyllis lose some of her seemingly unshakable mask, both when she couldn't come up with details of the (nonexistent) case and had to try and backtrack, and then when Fred called her submissive. Ouch. Yeah, Phyllis is fine with other women being oppressed, but when its her? Oh, then its a problem. Also interesting that while Fred/Phyllis and Brenda/Marc were both having problems right before the debate, Marc and Brenda kept it together onstage as a united front, but the cracks in Fred and Phyllis were out there for the world to see.

I do wonder how many of these marital problems were real and how many were made up for drama, especially with Phyllis and Fred, it all seems so on the nose, I wonder how much is dramatic license to make more of a narrative point. Well I guess the show does have that "some of this we made up" disclosure at the beginning, so I guess we know what we`re getting into. 

So I guess the implication is that Brenda is a lesbian, but is going to stay with her husband because she knows that being out would cause her problems with her work with the women's libbers? Because she does love him, even if she prefers women sexually, and they're having a kid? Is she bisexual and realized that she missed out on women? 

That play looked so hilariously awful. "This is why people hate us." 

Edited May 1, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Night Cheese]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Brenda just straight up destroyed Phyllis, that debate sure went better than the last one for the libbers! Brenda just calling Phyllis out on making crap up was amazing, thats what you get for using nonsense soundbites. We actually saw Phyllis lose some of her seemingly unshakable mask, both when she couldn't come up with details of the (nonexistent) case and had to try and backtrack, and then when Fred called her submissive.

Watching the couples' debate was *so* cathartic for me! I absolutely despise when people just make things up to support their claims or beliefs, and watching Phyllis do that throughout this series via rallies/pamphlets/flyers/etc without any sort of fallout or repercussions has had me seething. For her to finally have someone shut her lies down (and on television to boot!) was amazing!

[SomeTameGazelle]

On 5/1/2020 at 4:59 PM, tennisgurl said:

So I guess the implication is that Brenda is a lesbian, but is going to stay with her husband because she knows that being out would cause her problems with her work with the women's libbers? Because she does love him, even if she prefers women sexually, and they're having a kid? Is she bisexual and realized that she missed out on women? 

I haven't read Brenda's memoir, just her wikipedia page and and an article linked earlier in this thread regarding what is definitely true and what is at best conjecture in Mrs America. Based on that, Brenda had a lesbian affair but decided to stay with Marc because she loved him and did not love her lover. They divorced in 1987 and in 2000 she married a woman. I don't know though whether she considers herself a lesbian now.

[Blakeston]

I have zero sympathy for Phyllis being called "submissive." Phyllis's whole campaign was based on the idea that women should be submissive to their husbands. We saw that she would begin speeches by thanking her husband for "letting" her be there.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Blakeston