S08.E11: The English Teacher

[Alistaire]

7 minutes ago, nara said:

Your analysis was interesting, but I found this part to be rather inappropriate.

Well, certainly that’s your right. Perhaps you can explain how admiration for a detestable character comes about. (I’m quite serious, because I don’t understand how it does or how it can.)

[Cranberry]

It's fine to dislike a character or even to ask someone why they like that character, but let's try to refrain from making moral judgments about other posters here. This is fiction, after all. Many people enjoy watching (and even rooting for) many characters we wouldn't give the time of day in real life.

[EtheltoTillie]

So much speculation here.  My two cents is that if we don't find out what happened in those missing seven months, we wuz robbed. 

[healthnut]

At this point Carrie is charged as an accessory to murder of two presidents along with a slate of other charges. This isn’t just about whether or not to betray Saul this is her entire life.  
 

She hasn’t seen Frannie since who knows when, I don’t want Carrie to die or rot in jail especially for false charges. But I also don’t want Evgeny to win, either. I still holding out hope she outsmarts him somehow. 

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, healthnut said:

At this point Carrie is charged as an accessory to murder of two presidents along with a slate of other charges. This isn’t just about whether or not to betray Saul this is her entire life.  
 

She hasn’t seen Frannie since who knows when, I don’t want Carrie to die or rot in jail especially for false charges. But I also don’t want Evgeny to win, either. I still holding out hope she outsmarts him somehow. 

Maybe that's making her behave this way, but it's such weird reasoning.  The Russians have no reason to give back that black box.  

This seems like the final step in fully turning Carrie into an asset.

She would have been better off trying to work something out with Saul if she really wanted to get the black box back.  

But I wonder if Saul is putting it all together, since he now knows that the black box is the yvgeny play and Carrie pressed him about his asset in such an obvious way. 

[EtheltoTillie]

3 hours ago, RealReality said:

Maybe that's making her behave this way, but it's such weird reasoning.  The Russians have no reason to give back that black box.  

This seems like the final step in fully turning Carrie into an asset.

She would have been better off trying to work something out with Saul if she really wanted to get the black box back.  

But I wonder if Saul is putting it all together, since he now knows that the black box is the yvgeny play and Carrie pressed him about his asset in such an obvious way. 

Yes I too was wondering whether she was attempting to signal Saul in some way. 

[RealReality]

12 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Yes I too was wondering whether she was attempting to signal Saul in some way. 

I don't know, I wish she was.  But I think yvgeny is better at this than Carrie and he has the benefit of having had her under his control for 7 months.  Completely dependent on him.  

My hope is that Saul is able to put it together and make Carrie see that the Russians are not handing over that black box unless forced to do so.  

I mean any yvgeny play would involve Carrie, it would have to.  And Carrie was really pressing him about that Russian asset.  So I think it's possible Saul puts it together.  

Edited April 21, 2020 by RealReality

[Norma Desmond]

I don't think Carrie is really considering killing Saul for real (though, back in season 4, she was ready to drone the compound where Saul was being held hostage. Quinn brought her to her senses), though her considering giving up his russian asset is pretty cold.  She truly is a horrible person.

I think Carrie will find a way to trick Yevgeny into  thinking she did kill Saul so he will giver her the black box.

 

I do think, though, that either her or Saul will end up dead.

 

Anyway, I am enjoying this season, much more than seasons 3, 5, 6 or 7, which were a deep bore. A fitting farewell for a great show.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Norma Desmond

[LoveLeigh]

What I find hard to go with is that they shoehorned in an "asset" for Saul without any indication of who this could be in previous seasons. They stuffed this entire plot into "The English Teacher" and I think they should have developed this subplot more slowly. 

[Norma Desmond]

So, Colbert asked Claire Danes and Mandy Patinkin to describe the finale with one word. Claire said

Spoiler

it's "conclusive-ish" and Mandy said it's "beginning-ish"

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Norma Desmond

[Ottis]

Maybe 3-4 episodes ago, I started wondering if this whole season isn’t a trap set by Saul and Carrie for something. That seems unlikely, given the president and others were killed. Still, it feels like those two are up to something. Or maybe I’m just hoping it isn’t as bad as it seems. 

[LoveLeigh]

22 hours ago, Ottis said:

Maybe 3-4 episodes ago, I started wondering if this whole season isn’t a trap set by Saul and Carrie for something. That seems unlikely, given the president and others were killed. Still, it feels like those two are up to something. Or maybe I’m just hoping it isn’t as bad as it seems. 

I do not think they are in cahoots. In this episode, Carrie was clueless about his asset as she searched through those red books. 

I think Carrie has no choice but to kill Yvgeny. I also think there will be some major shockers because after all this is not just the season finale but the series finale and all shows love to create a final episode that will be considered among the best. 

Edited April 25, 2020 by DakotaLavender

[Booper]

Why would Saul not destroy the messages provided by the English teacher,  that seems like espionage 101.  I know it’s just a tv show and it is necessary for Carrie to find them to forward the plot.  Just saying.

[John Potts]

Ah, that good old fashioned Exposition TV, passing on the information to Carrie as she walks past.

How was Carrie alone in that bathroom? She's was arrested on multiple capital charges! I get that Saul went to bat for her, but there's no way she's given that much freedom. Not even an ankle monitor?

Is dropping a bomb on a random Taliban site really a good idea? It strengthens Haqqani if he survives.

I love the translator saying she didn't need to translate the swearing!

If Saul is "old school", it would make more sense if he was using the books as One Time Pads and the message in the spine was in code (probably using the previous book as the pad so you're not sending the message and the cypher simultaneously)

On 4/19/2020 at 8:13 AM, dwmarch said:

If someone I respected gave me a speech detailing the virtues of someone I had really good reason to dislike, I don't think I'd be compelled by such a speech. Jenna keeps falling for it though, making me wonder if she is naive, idealistic or just poorly written.

I'd go with poorly written, personally.

On 4/19/2020 at 8:13 AM, dwmarch said:

Carrie learned her tradecraft at Saul's School of Shitty Spy Work as well with her Clark Kent disguise. What if Saul's old buddy does decide to call him? Who came to visit you? Never heard of her and can't find any record of someone by that name working in records. What did she look like? Pretty, blonde and skinny... sounds a bit familiar. Oh, wait, she had glasses on? Couldn't have been...

She should have but on a brunette wig and given Jenna's name. You've already shafted her twice and she still bought your bullshit - third time's the charm!

On 4/19/2020 at 8:03 PM, Loandbehold said:

It would have been nice if we'd heard rumors of Saul having an asset in the Kremlin prior to the 10th episode of the last season.

Agreed. I suppose he must have had really good sources given how huge a blindspot he has with Carrie.

On 4/20/2020 at 12:07 AM, Anela said:

I understand Jenna's feelings, but the CIA has never been a hippy, peace-loving community. They are trained to defend themselves, to use people, and to kill if they have to. 

That really didn't ring true to me either. She would have to be fantastically naive to think the CIA only operate to bring sweetness and light to the world. You could still be a true believer who thinks all the compromises and betrayals are worth it "for the cause", but it's inconceivable that you could really act like people aren't going to die for it.

If I was writing the finale, I'd have it revealed that Saul knew what Carrie was doing and was feeding her false intel (via Jenna), which she passes to Yevgeny, who uses it to have the agent killed. In the last scene, we learn that the real agent is Yevgeny himself, who is now a highly placed asset in the SVR.

ETA: Aww, thanks Nara, but I think it's a bit late for this Series!

Edited April 26, 2020 by John Potts

[nara]

30 minutes ago, John Potts said:

She should have but on a brunette wig and given Jenna's name. You've already shafted her twice and she still bought your bullshit - third time's the charm!

In the last scene, we learn that the real agent is Yevgeny himself, who is now a highly placed asset in the SVR.

Love ❤️ both of these ideas. You need to be stunt writer who parachutes in to fix lame plot lines!

Edited April 26, 2020 by nara

[Roseanna]

On 4/20/2020 at 6:44 AM, econ07 said:

If she were to kill Saul and get away with it, she wouldn't be protected anymore by Saul against her charges, and I certainly don't think the information on the flight recorder would ever come to light given this administration.  She certainly wouldn't be in a position to receive  the intelligence background on Saul's asset, being in jail and all.

Why not just tell Saul and devise a plan together to give them a fake asset, like maybe that spineless Russian ambassador ... or let Saul decide between war and outing his asset.  This whole sequence of events spelled out by the Russian will never come to bear if she kills Saul.  Too many variables.  I think the Russians true goal is a dead Saul.

 

On 4/20/2020 at 3:57 PM, snarts said:

With the relationship that Saul & Carrie purportedly have, why didn't she just tell him that Yevegny & the Russians were demanding Saul's Kremlin asset in exchange for the black/red box?  They could've come up with some type of plan together.

Why did she fake Saul's murder with his cooperation?

I don't understand how this English teacher could be such a valuable source? After all, she is present only when the Russians need a translator in negotiatons but not when they are themselves.

Aren't we are going to learn the mole who put a bomb in the CIA building?

[Kel Varnsen]

The whole idea to kill Saul to get the flight recorder seems so stupid that I really hope when I watch the finale Carrie doesn't even consider it. Because it seems like it means bad things will happen for her for sure, but the outcome is a lot of maybes. Like she has to kill Saul, and if the translator gets burned that woman will also be killed. But there is no guarantee that Russia will give the recorder back, and if they do there is no guarantee that the White House will care what it says. There is also no guarantee that it is the only way to stop the pending war. Hell a war might not even happen either way. Of course there is also no guarantee that Saul being dead means she finds out who the agent is.

It seems like the better action would be for Carrie to kill the president (or his beardo advisor). Considering she some how got bail for being an accessory to killing one president, how much trouble could she get in for killing another.

Also I never realized this before, but in the opening credits, Carrie (I guess) standing in the maze with the lion mask on holding up her arms makes me think "I am the great Cornholio!"

And I also just realized that messages hidden in rare books is also how Irena Derevko communicated with her Russian handlers on Alias.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Kel Varnsen