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S05.E09: Bad Choice Road

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Kim really took charge of everything.   If she hadn't taken charge, Saul would be dead, along with the fish in the fish tank.

Nacho is never going to get out, is he?  Rock meets hard place.

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4 hours ago, nuraman00 said:

What is Kim's car?

So did they really accept the $7 million?  Are they going to do an investigation as to the where it came from?

 

Are they allowed to ask Saul where he picked up the money?

As to Kim's car, I assume S&C leases cars for partners, and she turned it in.

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5 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

As Lalo was walking out of Casa Tranquila, he looked at Hector as though it would be the last time he would ever see him... so I am guessing that is exactly what happens. 

That was some really fine acting with Lalo's almost imperceptible look of pain there.  I don't know what will happen to him but he may be done in by his overconfidence.  He does have that Tuco-like lie detector thing going.  We'll have to see what his new plan is. 

As for Kim and Lalo, she's totally in the game.  He thinks she's part of the legal team, so she is.  I hope she at least lands a new job away from Jimmy, I liked when she told him it was none of his business what she decided professionally. 

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Well, that was incredible.  And while it was distinctively BCS it did feel more of a cloth with "Breaking Bad" than any prior episode with the last-minute decision at the drop point, the gunpoint tension, the change of clothes after a trauma.

I struggled with Kim throughout this but I was mesmerised as well.  As much as she's the show's best character, they're just barely keeping the insane stuff she's swallowing believable.  I think her determination to be non-judgmental is admirable in its own way and I love the fact that she sees straight through Jimmy's lies -- and with the prop of the mug which both symbolises Jimmy's love for Kim and the danger they now both face.  I also loved the abrupt but, in that moment, somehow inevitable way that she ended her involvement with S&C and Mesa Verde.  I really hope we get the conversation with Paige in a flashback at some point because I feel like that's such a huge moment and given how good the show is at playing out even excruciatingly small details, this felt like a big omission although the right choice for the flow of this episode.  And of course her squaring up to Lalo was absolutely fantastic and of a piece with her past takedowns of Howard, Chuck, Rich and others. 

But then again we have her feeling judged by Jimmy who just can't understand Kim's moves and lashing out.  The fact that she still doesn't understand Saul Goodman after all this time feels like something that needs to be addressed -- as does the fact last mentioned in 506 that Jimmy duped her 'again', referring I guess to 410.  Kim's laconic nature is part of her brilliance but I really want to see some of these issues aired.

The use of props remains absolutely superb.  I've always looked at the juicer as a kind of metaphor for the ugly side of Saul -- Jimmy used it to basically scam Davis & Main and it featured prominently when he was getting ready to pull the Hummel heist last year.  What a pay-off for that darkness to cause him trauma now.  The scene also called back heavily Kim tending to Jimmy's wounds after being mugged.  But mostly the breakfast scene felt like a complete reversal of 310 -- Kim's compulsion to work without end nearly cost her her life.  Now Jimmy's compulsion to make money at nearly any cost has had a similar effect on Jimmy, down to the wrecked car.  And the fish which Jimmy happily overfeeds when he's at his most Saul-like and vindictive, such as in 401, now feels like a real victim of a more apex predator.

And still more callbacks -- a curtailed reprise of the 407 which in its own way foreshadows Kim quitting.  Where once she had her own life in parallel to Jimmy's, now she's just at home and worrying about him.  But perhaps it also foreshadows further that Saul will be out in the sun whereas Kim will be working in the shadows.  Definitely seems like her destiny more than ever is as one of the associates of Saul Goodman & Associates.

Mike had some great moments too but now that he's made his choices with regard to Gus, there doesn't seem as much to say about him.  What's interesting is how he's sticking up for Nacho.  The conversation with Gus was revealing and I am so intrigued to see how it plays.

Speaking of Nacho, I just love how Michael Mando takes scenes where he has almost no lines and makes them windows into Nacho's soul.  This is another such episode.  The constant cartwheeling of hope and horror as he's sat as Lalo's driver was played to absolute perfection.  The less he says, the more we feel.

No Howard again though - not that there would have been room for him.  I do feel bad for Patrick Fabian that basically his entire arc this season could have been squashed into a B-plot in a single episode.  Just as Michael Mando was hugely underused in the first... well, two and a half seasons really... Howard's role seems to have become a footnote.  I just really hope they find a big role for him in S6.

Lalo -- unlike the rest of the cast, Lalo doesn't seem to have the complexity or depth of others but we did see a little of that here.  The scenes with Hector are so degrading to him -- frankly, I think more degrading than they need to be.  I can't imagine Hector has done anything to suggest he enjoys either the vitamin juice or the birthday parties.  Lalo's "family is everything" showed a morality of some kind at least.  Presumably at the end he's taking a different route to Mexico because he's still not completely confident there wasn't trouble at the border.  But does he suspect Bolsa, I wonder?  It would be a surprise if he suspected Nacho at this point but Nacho's plotline has been one long fuse all year so maybe the finale will be the boom.

Speaking of Bolsa, I loved his role in this episode.  It surprised me last week that they brought a new party into the mix so late on, and so against the way BCS has handled the cartel plot which is very much about fleshing out characters we have already met.  But this really made Bolsa's situation interesting.  Jimmy might be a friend of the Salamancas but he's no friend of the cartel.

And Jimmy... he really is a puzzle.  The long scenes of his recovery and the pain he feels were brilliantly done.  This is what BCS does better than any other show I can think of -- yes, it has those moments of high-octane drama but it spends at least as long mining the tiny moments of recovery afterwards and they're usually the most interesting.  The fact that Fred weighs so heavily on the season and on both Jimmy and Mike's consciences is one terrific emblem of this.  And we definitely see with Mike how disgusted Jimmy is at himself for what he's doing, even though with Kim he goes to huge lengths to lie.  I think Jimmy's incredulity at Kim's actions reflects the fact that he seems to see all the carnage he's created on some level as a moral judgment for killing Chuck (as he seems to see it) whereas he sees Kim's choices objectively.  The fact that everything he said about Kim could be said about him... I'm not sure if he's even aware of the irony at this point.

And yeah, it's painful to think we're most likely well over a year and perhaps more than two years from the finale although equally a part of me hopes they don't rush this show back into production, as reliant as it is on sensational senior male actors like Jonathan Banks and Mark Margolis (and a good number of relatively-old actors like Bob Odenkirk, Giancarlo Esposito, Lavell Crawford, even Bryan Cranston), to say nothing of the crew who by all accounts have been with the BB and BCS quite loyally for a long time and so I guess would skew older.  Plus, I'd hate to think that the capper to this absolute tour-de-force of a series had to be creatively compromised to lose scenes with extras, have more green-screening and camera trickery due to filming restrictions or not having the same density of people supporting on set.  I'm sure it will be a very difficult and painful task for the producers to figure out how to keep their crew in work, keep their crew safe and also maintain the show's artistic integrity but I'm confident they'll do a terrific job.

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11 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

That was some really fine acting with Lalo's almost imperceptible look of pain there.  I don't know what will happen to him but he may be done in by his overconfidence.  He does have that Tuco-like lie detector thing going.  We'll have to see what his new plan is. 

As for Kim and Lalo, she's totally in the game.  He thinks she's part of the legal team, so she is.  I hope she at least lands a new job away from Jimmy, I liked when she told him it was none of his business what she decided professionally. 

To me, that is the major remaining mystery. Is there enough Jimmy left in Saul to really, genuinely, love Kim enough to try to end this relationship, and maybe save her life, and is Kim going to let her love for Jimmy, and maybe her pride, and  thus her embrace of an illusion of control, drive her into what she rationally understands is an utter disaster?

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9 minutes ago, gallimaufry said:

Well, that was incredible.  And while it was distinctively BCS it did feel more of a cloth with "Breaking Bad" than any prior episode with the last-minute decision at the drop point, the gunpoint tension, the change of clothes after a trauma.

I struggled with Kim throughout this but I was mesmerised as well.  As much as she's the show's best character, they're just barely keeping the insane stuff she's swallowing believable.  I think her determination to be non-judgmental is admirable in its own way and I love the fact that she sees straight through Jimmy's lies -- and with the prop of the mug which both symbolises Jimmy's love for Kim and the danger they now both face.  I also loved the abrupt but, in that moment, somehow inevitable way that she ended her involvement with S&C and Mesa Verde.  I really hope we get the conversation with Paige in a flashback at some point because I feel like that's such a huge moment and given how good the show is at playing out even excruciatingly small details, this felt like a big omission although the right choice for the flow of this episode.  And of course her squaring up to Lalo was absolutely fantastic and of a piece with her past takedowns of Howard, Chuck, Rich and others. 

But then again we have her feeling judged by Jimmy who just can't understand Kim's moves and lashing out.  The fact that she still doesn't understand Saul Goodman after all this time feels like something that needs to be addressed -- as does the fact last mentioned in 506 that Jimmy duped her 'again', referring I guess to 410.  Kim's laconic nature is part of her brilliance but I really want to see some of these issues aired.

The use of props remains absolutely superb.  I've always looked at the juicer as a kind of metaphor for the ugly side of Saul -- Jimmy used it to basically scam Davis & Main and it featured prominently when he was getting ready to pull the Hummel heist last year.  What a pay-off for that darkness to cause him trauma now.  The scene also called back heavily Kim tending to Jimmy's wounds after being mugged.  But mostly the breakfast scene felt like a complete reversal of 310 -- Kim's compulsion to work without end nearly cost her her life.  Now Jimmy's compulsion to make money at nearly any cost has had a similar effect on Jimmy, down to the wrecked car.  And the fish which Jimmy happily overfeeds when he's at his most Saul-like and vindictive, such as in 401, now feels like a real victim of a more apex predator.

And still more callbacks -- a curtailed reprise of the 407 which in its own way foreshadows Kim quitting.  Where once she had her own life in parallel to Jimmy's, now she's just at home and worrying about him.  But perhaps it also foreshadows further that Saul will be out in the sun whereas Kim will be working in the shadows.  Definitely seems like her destiny more than ever is as one of the associates of Saul Goodman & Associates.

Mike had some great moments too but now that he's made his choices with regard to Gus, there doesn't seem as much to say about him.  What's interesting is how he's sticking up for Nacho.  The conversation with Gus was revealing and I am so intrigued to see how it plays.

Speaking of Nacho, I just love how Michael Mando takes scenes where he has almost no lines and makes them windows into Nacho's soul.  This is another such episode.  The constant cartwheeling of hope and horror as he's sat as Lalo's driver was played to absolute perfection.  The less he says, the more we feel.

No Howard again though - not that there would have been room for him.  I do feel bad for Patrick Fabian that basically his entire arc this season could have been squashed into a B-plot in a single episode.  Just as Michael Mando was hugely underused in the first... well, two and a half seasons really... Howard's role seems to have become a footnote.  I just really hope they find a big role for him in S6.

Lalo -- unlike the rest of the cast, Lalo doesn't seem to have the complexity or depth of others but we did see a little of that here.  The scenes with Hector are so degrading to him -- frankly, I think more degrading than they need to be.  I can't imagine Hector has done anything to suggest he enjoys either the vitamin juice or the birthday parties.  Lalo's "family is everything" showed a morality of some kind at least.  Presumably at the end he's taking a different route to Mexico because he's still not completely confident there wasn't trouble at the border.  But does he suspect Bolsa, I wonder?  It would be a surprise if he suspected Nacho at this point but Nacho's plotline has been one long fuse all year so maybe the finale will be the boom.

Speaking of Bolsa, I loved his role in this episode.  It surprised me last week that they brought a new party into the mix so late on, and so against the way BCS has handled the cartel plot which is very much about fleshing out characters we have already met.  But this really made Bolsa's situation interesting.  Jimmy might be a friend of the Salamancas but he's no friend of the cartel.

And Jimmy... he really is a puzzle.  The long scenes of his recovery and the pain he feels were brilliantly done.  This is what BCS does better than any other show I can think of -- yes, it has those moments of high-octane drama but it spends at least as long mining the tiny moments of recovery afterwards and they're usually the most interesting.  The fact that Fred weighs so heavily on the season and on both Jimmy and Mike's consciences is one terrific emblem of this.  And we definitely see with Mike how disgusted Jimmy is at himself for what he's doing, even though with Kim he goes to huge lengths to lie.  I think Jimmy's incredulity at Kim's actions reflects the fact that he seems to see all the carnage he's created on some level as a moral judgment for killing Chuck (as he seems to see it) whereas he sees Kim's choices objectively.  The fact that everything he said about Kim could be said about him... I'm not sure if he's even aware of the irony at this point.

And yeah, it's painful to think we're most likely well over a year and perhaps more than two years from the finale although equally a part of me hopes they don't rush this show back into production, as reliant as it is on sensational senior male actors like Jonathan Banks and Mark Margolis (and a good number of relatively-old actors like Bob Odenkirk, Giancarlo Esposito, Lavell Crawford, even Bryan Cranston), to say nothing of the crew who by all accounts have been with the BB and BCS quite loyally for a long time and so I guess would skew older.  Plus, I'd hate to think that the capper to this absolute tour-de-force of a series had to be creatively compromised to lose scenes with extras, have more green-screening and camera trickery due to filming restrictions or not having the same density of people supporting on set.  I'm sure it will be a very difficult and painful task for the producers to figure out how to keep their crew in work, keep their crew safe and also maintain the show's artistic integrity but I'm confident they'll do a terrific job.

Great, great post. The way G&G  depict the incredibly damaging psychological trauma inflicted by violence, is so far superior to the norm, in even the most serious t.v. and movie drama, that it almost is in another category. I always remember Marie and Skyler in the wake of Hank's murder. Great actors, directors, and cinematography are needed for that outcome.

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7 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Mike told Gus that fear was not a good motivator.  I recall Gus saying the same thing sometime in BB, and I think it was to Mike.

I suppose Jimmy was upset that Kim was leaving Mesa Verde after all he did to get them as her client.  Their conversation was interrupted by Lalo's appearance, so I wonder if that topic will come up again in the future.

Yes,  in BB episode 304, Mike suggested that Gus convince Walt to run the superlab by telling Walt that Gus was the only thing keeping the Salamanca cousins from killing him.

Gus told Mike that he didn't find fear to be a good motivator.  

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I loved the detail of how many times Kim called Jimmy directly by his name in the episode, as if to underline that Jimmy is the guy she's in love with, not Saul.

Lalo mentioned Tuco was getting out of prison in 11 months, which gives us some hint about how BCS might line up with Breaking Bad's timeline.

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1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

That was some really fine acting with Lalo's almost imperceptible look of pain there.  I don't know what will happen to him but he may be done in by his overconfidence.  He does have that Tuco-like lie detector thing going.  We'll have to see what his new plan is. 

Agreed. When he stopped at the door and looked back at Hector, he gave a look like he didn’t know if he could pull out of this one. It was interesting to see that facade of being overly-confident drop for a few seconds. Even he must know he’s treading on thin ice.

Kim standing up to Lalo was a bit too Wendy Byrd (Ozark) for me and in real life, I don’t know if her speech would convince him to back off. She can’t die right now, so I guess he had to move on. 

I was interested in her fight with Jimmy about quitting at the firm. Is she expecting Jimmy to continue being a friend of the cartel to support her pro bono work? If so, she’s better prepare for more visits from Lalo-types.

I really like Mike using the “fear as an effective motivator” to Gus, which is what Gus told Mike in BB. I wonder if something happening with Nacho becomes the catalyst for Gus coming around to Mike’s line of thinking there. 

I felt like Nacho when he thought he was finally rid of Lalo and Lalo jumps back into the car. Lalo is truly the annoying relative that never leaves. 

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Mando is really great at portraying a man in a bottomless pit of existential, stone-faced, despair, while having very few lines to work with. Man, this show is sad, and it is kind of amazing it is so enjoyable.

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2 minutes ago, Sharper2002 said:

I was interested in her fight with Jimmy about quitting at the firm. Is she expecting Jimmy to continue being a friend of the cartel to support her pro bono work? If so, she’s better prepare for more visits from Lalo-types.

Perhaps it is simply the idea and struggle for freedom that both Kim and Saul share, the desire to choose their own roads, not paved by Howard, Schweikart, or Lalo. They are both extremely independent, compared to average people. I think it is not a question of Jimmy supporting Kim. Kim can perfectly survive on pro bono clients.

Saul tries to deny Kim freedom, something that he himself strongly desires, that he regards as more important as his own and Kim's lives. It is of course hypocritical as Saul has very few choices at this point, and also hypocritical how he still does not realize he cannot exclude Kim from his life and his methods to achieve his idea of freedom.

This is even a more global metaphor, perhaps applying to middle class in the world. The desire to do own business, the desire to choose own path, while still being inevitably bounded by the situation and the rules. The show seems to be all about free will in general.

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2 minutes ago, Ed- said:

Perhaps it is simply the idea and struggle for freedom that both Kim and Saul share, the desire to choose their own roads, not paved by Howard, Schweikart, or Lalo. They are both extremely independent, compared to average people. I think it is not a question of Jimmy supporting Kim. Kim can perfectly survive on pro bono clients.

Saul tries to deny Kim freedom, something that he himself strongly desires, that he regards as more important as his own and Kim's lives. It is of course hypocritical as Saul has very few choices at this point, and also hypocritical how he still does not realize he cannot exclude Kim from his life and his methods to achieve his idea of freedom.

This is even a more global metaphor, perhaps applying to middle class in the world. The desire to do own business, the desire to choose own path, while still being inevitably bounded by the situation and the rules. The show seems to be all about free will in general.

Oh, yes, people desperately trying to maintain the illusion of control is a central element of this universe. The writers have nearly all the characters struggle with it.

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The one positive thing I'll say about Lalo is that he looks great in those jeans.  

I really don't care what happens to Kim, but I do hope that Nacho and his dad can get away from this mess.

 

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1 hour ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

Lalo mentioned Tuco was getting out of prison in 11 months, which gives us some hint about how BCS might line up with Breaking Bad's timeline.

I'm not sure the timelines match up yet. It's currently mid-2004 in Better Call Saul, four years out from Breaking Bad. And when Tuco first appears on Breaking Bad, he's only been out of prison for about a year at most. (His former prison buddy Skinny Pete tells him, "You been keeping it real since you been sprung. What's it been, like a year?") So there's still a gap of several years between when Tuco is supposed to be released and when he actually gets out for good.

It's also notable that the cartel doesn't put Tuco back in charge as soon as he's released; according to Jesse, he took over Krazy-8's role after Walt killed him. Unless we're now meant to think that Domingo was sort of a front man whom Lalo assigned to keep an eye on Tuco, and once he died Tuco went from running things in the shadows to running things openly.

In any event, it seems like there are more unrevealed developments to come. One possibility is that Lalo is going to put Saul in charge of Tuco's parole or something, and Nacho is going to lean on him to help keep Tuco in prison for longer -- explaining Saul's "It wasn't me! Ignacio! He's the one!" outburst in his first Breaking Bad appearance.

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I like how in the last two episodes, Jimmy seems like a rube, a pawn.  His smart ass, swaggering, get-one-over on everybody persona is subsumed by fear.  In the desert he seems genuinely surprised when Mike tells him Kim is in the game, and now he is snowflake-y in saying he can't believe he has to go through this and only has Mike to talk to about it.  Buck up, Jimmy, you're lucky you have Mike.  However I don't really remember any times in BB where Mike seemed to give a rap about Saul, but someone with better recall may be able to come up with some instances.

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11 hours ago, LanceM said:

If I were Lalo, I'd dump Saul and hire Kim.

When Lalo told Nacho to go back to ABQ I asked "Is Lalo the Fly tormenting Jimmy?"

Giselle rules! It's not that she thinks on her feet (she knew Saul was in a shootout) but Saul had a lot of time to get a story together and he just stood there stammering.

Have we seen any women handling any of the cartel's business? (Lydia is Gus' "crew")

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The scariest part of this episode was Lalo walking away from Jimmy and Kim.  They breathed a sigh of relief but they have no idea what's in store for them.  

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7 hours ago, GussieK said:

No, it wasn’t her first. That’s what I call great lawyering, and it echoed what Kim did two episodes back to convince that asshole Kevin of Mesa Verde to keep them on. And what she did to convince the guy who was holding out on his house. And what she said to Schweikart when he was accusing her of unethical behavior. She just gets in their face and they back down.  She has a real talent for it. She is saying something that is not true but it has elements of truth. 

BTW, what was the cork she went back for in her office?  Was that a souvenir of their first con with the expensive liquor?  I just love Kim. 

It was the top of that tequila bottle they got when they scammed Ken Wins back in Season 2

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10 hours ago, scenario said:

But how long did it take Lalo to find it? It wasn't hidden very well. 

Jimmy had given Lalo the actual distance from the drop site, which helped.  Then Lalo saw the tire tracks.

Lalo obviously didn't believe Kim's explanation for the bullet holes, but he didn't care.  It was enough for him to know that someone spilled the beans about the money and the drop site.  He'll figure it all out.  He might think that Jimmy was being played too.  Who knows?  I sure can't keep up with all this backstabbing stuff.

I like that Tuco has to sit in that wheelchair with that party hat and sit through Happy Birthday.  I've been in a nursing home, and those phony celebrations are the worst part.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Yes,  in BB episode 304, Mike suggested that Gus convince Walt to run the superlab by telling Walt that Gus was the only thing keeping the Salamanca cousins from killing him.

Gus told Mike that he didn't find fear to be a good motivator.  

That changes the context of Gus' statement in BB.  Instead of communicating his own philosophy to Mike, he's throwing Mike's words back at him.  As far as I know, that twist of words is unique in prequels. 

*****

I'm warming to the logic of Kim becoming the cartel's unwilling-yet-willing lawyer/money launderer down in Mexico.  Frankly, I don't think there is any storyline that will fit perfectly with BB.  

Edited by PeterPirate
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3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Good recap of Kim's style.  I'm not sure it would work for a man, particularly with someone like Lalo.  Lalo's macho self-image would never let another man talk to him as if he was being stupid, he couldn't even bear Saul telling him not to tease the fish and had to go do it again just to show he wasn't letting Saul boss him around, but he could let himself shrug off Kim's rant by telling himself she was just an hysterical woman.

I don't think Lalo shrugged off what Kim said as a rant by a hysterical woman. I think he realized she was right and took her advice.

As for Saul's car, I don't understand why it would seem suspicious if it had been towed away. Saul's cover story was that it broke down. If my car broke down in the middle of the desert, I'd get it towed ASAP.

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I don't think Lalo believed Kim's explanation.  I think he was impressed with her having the balls to stand up to him, and with her loyalty to Jimmy.  The question is, will he try to get rid of her and Jimmy?  

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5 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I don't think Lalo shrugged off what Kim said as a rant by a hysterical woman. I think he realized she was right and took her advice.

As for Saul's car, I don't understand why it would seem suspicious if it had been towed away. Saul's cover story was that it broke down. If my car broke down in the middle of the desert, I'd get it towed ASAP.

I don't think Lalo believes the car being target practice story, he knows there was a shootout, but he also sees her point that he shouldn't have trusted Jimmy as a courier. 

The car is problematic because it's going to be found at some point and is shot up and is traceable to Jimmy, license plate removal notwithstanding.  If it had been removed by the clean up crew Lalo wouldn't have found it and maybe would have pressed Jimmy about where it was towed.  It's a loose end either way.

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25 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I don't think Lalo shrugged off what Kim said as a rant by a hysterical woman. I think he realized she was right and took her advice.

As for Saul's car, I don't understand why it would seem suspicious if it had been towed away. Saul's cover story was that it broke down. If my car broke down in the middle of the desert, I'd get it towed ASAP.

Okay, so Saul got it towed right away. Where is it now? It still has bullet holes in it. If they someone is suspicious, they are suspicious. They either see that Saul just left it there because its not worth the money to tow it or he towed it and now I'd like to see it.

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56 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

When Lalo told Nacho to go back to ABQ I asked "Is Lalo the Fly tormenting Jimmy?"

Giselle rules! It's not that she thinks on her feet (she knew Saul was in a shootout) but Saul had a lot of time to get a story together and he just stood there stammering.

Have we seen any women handling any of the cartel's business? (Lydia is Gus' "crew")

Intriguing.  Now the bottle cap is a red herring I would like. Kim forced into the Cartel at the same time as Saul is forced to work for Gus? 

Don Eladio's soldier points a gun at Kim. Kim slowly takes the bottle cap out of the pocket.
Don Eladio: "¡Zafiro Añejo! Who are you?"
Kim: "Kimberly Maria Wexler, attorney-at-law."
Don Eladio: "Maria! Just like my abuelita! Well Maria, welcome to Mexico."

Sorry for the outburst of fan fiction. Everything falls into place. 😄
 

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19 minutes ago, scenario said:

Okay, so Saul got it towed right away. Where is it now? It still has bullet holes in it. If they someone is suspicious, they are suspicious. They either see that Saul just left it there because its not worth the money to tow it or he towed it and now I'd like to see it.

If I were Saul, I'd say the car was determined to be totalled, and then disposed of.

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11 hours ago, ahmerali said:

I get that there's no perfect story. But Fring's style is to leave no evidence, rather than any evidence. The car just being 'gone' would be easier to explain than anything else.

Gus's guys should have swept the tire tracks. I can't remember -- Did they even know where Saul's car was?

10 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

As Lalo was walking out of Casa Tranquila, he looked at Hector as though it would be the last time he would ever see him... so I am guessing that is exactly what happens. 

It makes sense that Lalo would look at him like that, because at that moment he planned on returning to Mexico and never coming back to the US.

13 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

It was nice of Eladio to try to punish Lalo for messing with Gustavo.  A regular philosopher king, that one.

Not Eladio, but Bolsa. Eladio is the one with the pool in his backyard.

Edited by peeayebee
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12 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

If I were Saul, I'd say the car was totalled and disposed of.

Gus' men talked specifically about disposing of every body and vehicle. They would have definitely asked Mike if there were more vehicles, and they would have disposed of Esteem. (Mike and Saul had pushed Esteem into the ditch). So, either Gus' men were careless and did not ask Mike nor Saul about Esteem, forgot or did not find it, or leaving Esteem was part of the plan. If the latter is the case, I think it is realistic to assume that leaving Esteem in the desert could be part of the fake explanation, i.e. Saul would not care a bit about a $100 car, at least not within days of the accident, not for 15 minutes it takes to arrange towing, with $7.1 million job on the line. (Edit: So, Gus' men did not account for bullet holes, and did not assume Lalo is shifty enough to go poking around.)

Edited by Ed-

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12 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

If I were Saul, I'd say the car was determined to be totalled, and then disposed of.

In 48 hours?

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5 minutes ago, Ed- said:

Gus' men talked specifically about disposing of every body and vehicle. They would have definitely asked Mike if there were more vehicles, and they would have disposed of Esteem. (Mike and Saul had pushed Esteem into the ditch). So, either Gus' men were careless and did not ask Mike nor Saul about Esteem, forgot or did not find it, or leaving Esteem was part of the plan. If the latter is the case, I think it is realistic to assume that leaving Esteem in the desert could be part of the fake explanation, i.e. Saul would not care a bit about a $100 car, at least not within days of the accident, not for 15 minutes it takes to arrange towing, with $7.1 million job on the line.

Someone whose just made $100,000 willing to pay $50 to tow a $100 car would be suspicious in itself. He could afford a car that costs twice as much. 😊

Unless they can get a good look alike car, there's no good solution. 

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12 hours ago, ahmerali said:

Yeah, but given that Jimmy concocted a story in the car, with Mike, Victor, and Tyrus, this is a ridiculous loose end for them to leave, and especially for Fring to leave left undone. If Jimmy's story is that the car died or ran out of gas, why is it in the ditch? They could have at least made a story about how it ended up in the ditch....

Since the story was that he abandoned the "Esteem", there was no need to move it. What they needed to clean up was the hijackers' vehicles and the dead bullet ridden bodies. No one would bat an eye seeing an abandoned pos Esteem in the desert.

BTW: Why did Jimmy keep the World's 2nd G. L. cup? He would always have to explain the bullet hole to Kim.

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12 hours ago, ahmerali said:

They could have at least made a story about how it ended up in the ditch....

Wasn't it just teetering on the edge when Mike & Jimmy left it? It's probably easier for the clean-up crew to push it over than try to tow it when they didn't need to.

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7 hours ago, Ed- said:

As others have mentioned here, Saul and Kim did a great job of NOT giving out too many details to Lalo. Kim was that last push Saul needed not to get killed, or worse, have to explain to Kim the real story.

Saul, especially, knows how to stick to a lie to sell a con.

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26 minutes ago, scenario said:

In 48 hours?

Sure. On day one the car could be towed to a garage, where a mechanic could look at it briefly and say, "This is going to cost a ton of money to fix." It could be disposed of the next day.

21 minutes ago, scenario said:

Someone whose just made $100,000 willing to pay $50 to tow a $100 car would be suspicious in itself. He could afford a car that costs twice as much. 😊

It depends on whether you have a sentimental attachment to the car. I'd never let one of my cars sit in the desert.

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1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't think Lalo believes the car being target practice story, he knows there was a shootout, but he also sees her point that he shouldn't have trusted Jimmy as a courier. 

The car is problematic because it's going to be found at some point and is shot up and is traceable to Jimmy, license plate removal notwithstanding.  If it had been removed by the clean up crew Lalo wouldn't have found it and maybe would have pressed Jimmy about where it was towed.  It's a loose end either way.

I agree--any of the hypothetical outcomes for the Esteem would have raised questions for someone as suspicious as Lalo. I would have thought Gus would have come up with a solution, though--because he is apparently very intelligent and meticulous.

Also, I thought wouldn't have gossip/word gotten back to Lalo eventually that there was a shootout in the desert involving seven million dollars and he would've put 2 and 2 together?  Or don't thugs gossip amongst themselves?

Good episode, though. If Lalo hadn't found the shot-up car, we wouldn't have had a reason for the great scene between him, Kim, and Saul.

Edited by Adiba · Reason: typo

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2 minutes ago, Adiba said:

Also, I thought wouldn't have gossip/word gotten back to Lalo eventually that there was a shootout in the desert involving seven million dollars and he would've put 2 and 2 together?  Or don't thugs gossip amongst themselves?

aside from the fact that none of the thugs made it out alive they were from an outside crew, they wouldn't associating with Lalo or the Salamanca's people in their free time.

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3 hours ago, Sharper2002 said:

Agreed. When he stopped at the door and looked back at Hector, he gave a look like he didn’t know if he could pull out of this one. It was interesting to see that facade of being overly-confident drop for a few seconds. Even he must know he’s treading on thin ice.

Kim standing up to Lalo was a bit too Wendy Byrd (Ozark) for me and in real life, I don’t know if her speech would convince him to back off. She can’t die right now, so I guess he had to move on. 

I was interested in her fight with Jimmy about quitting at the firm. Is she expecting Jimmy to continue being a friend of the cartel to support her pro bono work? If so, she’s better prepare for more visits from Lalo-types.

I really like Mike using the “fear as an effective motivator” to Gus, which is what Gus told Mike in BB. I wonder if something happening with Nacho becomes the catalyst for Gus coming around to Mike’s line of thinking there. 

I felt like Nacho when he thought he was finally rid of Lalo and Lalo jumps back into the car. Lalo is truly the annoying relative that never leaves. 

 

3 hours ago, Ed- said:

Perhaps it is simply the idea and struggle for freedom that both Kim and Saul share, the desire to choose their own roads, not paved by Howard, Schweikart, or Lalo. They are both extremely independent, compared to average people. I think it is not a question of Jimmy supporting Kim. Kim can perfectly survive on pro bono clients.

Saul tries to deny Kim freedom, something that he himself strongly desires, that he regards as more important as his own and Kim's lives. It is of course hypocritical as Saul has very few choices at this point, and also hypocritical how he still does not realize he cannot exclude Kim from his life and his methods to achieve his idea of freedom.

This is even a more global metaphor, perhaps applying to middle class in the world. The desire to do own business, the desire to choose own path, while still being inevitably bounded by the situation and the rules. The show seems to be all about free will in general.

 

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I like how in the last two episodes, Jimmy seems like a rube, a pawn.  His smart ass, swaggering, get-one-over on everybody persona is subsumed by fear.  In the desert he seems genuinely surprised when Mike tells him Kim is in the game, and now he is snowflake-y in saying he can't believe he has to go through this and only has Mike to talk to about it.  Buck up, Jimmy, you're lucky you have Mike.  However I don't really remember any times in BB where Mike seemed to give a rap about Saul, but someone with better recall may be able to come up with some instances.

I thought it was interesting the way Jimmy was absolutely stunned and not particularly supportive about Kim quitting her job. It was a great contrast to how Kim is almost blindly supportive of Jimmy, even if she does not understand his choices.

Jimmy quit an amazing job at Davis and Main because he could not stand the environment of Big Law. He is also aware of how unhappy Kim had been with her job since her car accident. Why was her actions such a surprise? I mean what’s good for the gander is also good for the goose.

I was wondering what everybody else thought of his reaction to her big news.

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1 minute ago, MrWhyt said:

aside from the fact that none of the thugs made it out alive they were from an outside crew, they wouldn't associating with Lalo or the Salamanca's people in their free time.

Yes, but when the thugs/gang members' buddies (or coworkers, if you will) heard they were shot in the desert, I figured that might have generated some talk --and in that "universe", perhaps gotten back to the Salamanca's camp, eventually.

I agree that it is unlikely--but could have been a possibility, imo.

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6 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Sure. On day one the car could be towed to a garage, where a mechanic could look at it briefly and say, "This is going to cost a ton of money to fix." It could be disposed of the next day.

It depends on whether you have a sentimental attachment to the car. I'd never let one of my cars sit in the desert.

Where does it get disposed of? If Lalo is suspicious I think it would go something like this:

"Where's your car?"

"The mechanic said its not worth fixing. I got rid of it."

"What's the name of the mechanic? What junk yard is the car at?"

You don't want to do anything that would cause Lalo to start asking questions. Because once he starts, he's not going to stop. It's a chance either way. 

People who buy cheap disposable cars aren't as likely to have a sentimental attachment to them. 

 

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I think Kim's story had enough plausibility to be "believable".  Besides, Kim had a point that Lalo is going to need someone he can trust more than he trusts other people.  And if Lalo drags/entices Kim to work for the cartel, it will keep Jimmy in line.  

10 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Jimmy quit an amazing job at Davis and Main because he could not stand the environment of Big Law. He is also aware of how unhappy Kim had been with her job since her car accident. Why was her actions such a surprise? I mean what’s good for the gander is also good for the goose.

I think Jimmy's feelings over Chuck didn't fly away with the space blanket after all.  Chuck, like Fred, was not "in the game".

Edited by PeterPirate
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9 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Tuco has gotten into one prison fight already that extended his stay in prison.  I wonder if Gus will have Nacho do something that gets Tuco another prison sentence, and have Jimmy mess up Tuco's legal defense.  Jimmy has to be afraid of Lalo for something that he claims Nacho did.  It can't be the thing Nacho did with Hector's pills because Jimmy has no knowledge of it.

 

Nice.  

 

I definitely think they threw in that reference to Tuco's expected time in prison to sort of mark where we are in the gap between the events of BCS and the start of the events in BB, so we would kind of have a rough idea of the timeline.  Clever.

Per what Bob Odenkirk said when this season started, we are getting much closer to the start of the Breaking Bad timeline.  I think he guessed that this BCS season was about one year away, but he said that Gilligan, etc., would be able to say for sure.  Maybe there will be another short time jump at some point, but we're not as far away from BB anymore as it may seem like we should be.

The start of the Breaking Bad timeline is, of course, different from when we meet Saul on Breaking Bad.  We don't meet Saul, Mike, Hector or Gus at all until Season 2 of Breaking Bad, and we never see Lalo, Kim or Nacho at all, as you know.  We only hear the fleeting reference to Lalo and Ignacio.   Because we don't meet those specific characters until Season 2 of BB (we don't meet the Cousins until Season 3), there could be any number of things happening with all of them during what would be our Season 1 of Breaking Bad.  One thing we do know for sure is that we meet Tuco and Krazy-8 in Season 1 of BB.  But all of those other people could be up to all sorts of shenanigans with each other as we are seeing Mr. White and Jesse partner up.

Lalo -- as smart, persistent and nosy as he is -- is already about 2 minutes away from catching Nacho in something.  He's the sort of guy who, even when he is treating someone as his trusted associate, never really trusts them and always has one eye on them at all times (much like Gus).  It's not going to take much longer for him to find out what Nacho has been up to (working with Gus), or to catch Nacho in something new.  It won't take much longer for Nacho to end up in trouble.  (I hope he doesn't end up as a victim of the Cousins' axe.)

We don't know what Jimmy/Saul knows about what Nacho has done by the time we meet Saul in Breaking Bad.  We only see what is happening and what he knows right now on BCS.

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4 minutes ago, Adiba said:

Yes, but when the thugs/gang members' buddies (or coworkers, if you will) heard they were shot in the desert, I figured that might have generated some talk --and in that "universe", perhaps gotten back to the Salamanca's camp, eventually.

I agree that it is unlikely--but could have been a possibility, imo.

So a group of thugs go off on a job and just disappear one day. If I'm working for the mob, I'm not asking too many questions or talking about it much. People who show too much curiosity don't live that long. 

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5 minutes ago, TVFan17 said:

 

I definitely think they threw in that reference to Tuco's expected time in prison to sort of mark where we are in the gap between the events of BCS and the start of the events in BB, so we would kind of have a rough idea of the timeline.  Clever.

Per what Bob Odenkirk said when this season started, we are getting much closer to the start of the Breaking Bad timeline.  I think he guessed that this BCS season was about one year away, but he said that Gilligan, etc., would be able to say for sure.  Maybe there will be another short time jump at some point, but we're not as far away from BB anymore as it may seem like we should be.

The start of the Breaking Bad timeline is, of course, different from when we meet Saul on Breaking Bad.  We don't meet Saul, Mike, Hector or Gus at all until Season 2 of Breaking Bad, and we never see Lalo, Kim or Nacho at all, as you know.  We only hear the fleeting reference to Lalo and Ignacio.   Because we don't meet those specific characters until Season 2 of BB (we don't meet the Cousins until Season 3), there could be any number of things happening with all of them during what would be our Season 1 of Breaking Bad.  One thing we do know for sure is that we meet Tuco and Krazy-8 in Season 1 of BB.  But all of those other people could be up to all sorts of shenanigans with each other as we are seeing Mr. White and Jesse partner up.

Lalo -- as smart, persistent and nosy as he is -- is already about 2 minutes away from catching Nacho in something.  He's the sort of guy who, even when he is treating someone as his trusted associate, never really trusts them and always has one eye on them at all times (much like Gus).  It's not going to take much longer for him to find out what Nacho has been up to (working with Gus), or to catch Nacho in something new.  It won't take much longer for Nacho to end up in trouble.  (I hope he doesn't end up as a victim of the Cousins' axe.)

We don't know what Jimmy/Saul knows about what Nacho has done by the time we meet Saul in Breaking Bad.  We only see what is happening and what he knows right now on BCS.

I got the impression that Saul had been a shifty lawyer and running ads on TV for a while when we first saw him in Breaking Bad. He seemed to know a lot about laundering money and stuff right off the bat. My gut feeling was that the Saul we saw in Season 2 of BB was doing it longer than 1 year. 

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Is there another example of sloppy work by a Gus crew, or is missing the Esteem a first?  Mike carefully accounted for each car and banger in his report.  It would have been nothing for them to add the Esteem to the junk pile of shot-up vehicles they removed from the bend in the road.  I'd be stunned beyond anything if Mike failed to explain where he believed the Esteem conked out.  

I think, in the end, Lalo granted Kim her point that he was in an untenable situation and that Saul really was a victim as he was.  

 

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35 minutes ago, TVFan17 said:

 

I definitely think they threw in that reference to Tuco's expected time in prison to sort of mark where we are in the gap between the events of BCS and the start of the events in BB, so we would kind of have a rough idea of the timeline.  Clever.

Per what Bob Odenkirk said when this season started, we are getting much closer to the start of the Breaking Bad timeline.  I think he guessed that this BCS season was about one year away, but he said that Gilligan, etc., would be able to say for sure.  Maybe there will be another short time jump at some point, but we're not as far away from BB anymore as it may seem like we should be.

The start of the Breaking Bad timeline is, of course, different from when we meet Saul on Breaking Bad.  We don't meet Saul, Mike, Hector or Gus at all until Season 2 of Breaking Bad, and we never see Lalo, Kim or Nacho at all, as you know.  We only hear the fleeting reference to Lalo and Ignacio.   Because we don't meet those specific characters until Season 2 of BB (we don't meet the Cousins until Season 3), there could be any number of things happening with all of them during what would be our Season 1 of Breaking Bad.  One thing we do know for sure is that we meet Tuco and Krazy-8 in Season 1 of BB.  But all of those other people could be up to all sorts of shenanigans with each other as we are seeing Mr. White and Jesse partner up.

Personally, I'm OK with hand-waving when it comes to continuity.  But some people have done some detailed work to craft a BCS/BB timeline based on the various clues presented.  G/G have also fostered a reputation that they know what they are doing with the story, although I wonder if the emergence of Kim Wexler as a central character played havoc with all that.  

 

Sydney-Harris1.jpg

 

Edited by PeterPirate
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35 minutes ago, scenario said:

So a group of thugs go off on a job and just disappear one day. If I'm working for the mob, I'm not asking too many questions or talking about it much. People who show too much curiosity don't live that long. 

Not saying that’s what the writers should have written— just the thought that popped into my mind— guys whispering about “what happened to so -and -so I the desert,” etc. People like to talk, even criminals. 
l’m willing to suspend my disbelief in the name of good fiction, though. And this episode was good. So it’s all good 😉.

I enjoy reading everyone’s take and opinions here— however different from mine. That’s what makes the forum interesting and entertaining, imo.

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52 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Jimmy quit an amazing job at Davis and Main because he could not stand the environment of Big Law. He is also aware of how unhappy Kim had been with her job since her car accident. Why was her actions such a surprise? I mean what’s good for the gander is also good for the goose.

I was happy she told him it was none of his business, once he wasn't supportive.  Which he should have been.  He's so damn unworthy.  It looks like there's nothing she wouldn't do for him, but the same can't be said about him.  From what we've been shown, it should have been pretty easy for Jimmy to understand why she left Schweikert.  (Though she did it pretty unprofessionally.)

40 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Is there another example of sloppy work by a Gus crew, or is missing the Esteem a first?  Mike carefully accounted for each car and banger in his report.  It would have been nothing for them to add the Esteem to the junk pile of shot-up vehicles they removed from the bend in the road.  I'd be stunned beyond anything if Mike failed to explain where he believed the Esteem conked out.  

I still don't understand Mike removing the license plate.  Why didn't he himself get it towed to a junkyard and crushed?  Doesn't he know a junkyard guy?  I think he does.  It just doesn't make sense to me but I'll let it go.  I often don't understand the ways of criminals. 

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11 minutes ago, Adiba said:

Not saying that’s what the writers should have written— just the thought that popped into my mind— guys whispering about “what happened to so -and -so I the desert,” etc. People like to talk, even criminals. 
l’m willing to suspend my disbelief in the name of good fiction, though. And this episode was good. So it’s all good 😉.

I enjoy reading everyone’s take and opinions here— however different from mine. That’s what makes the forum interesting and entertaining, imo.

I'm not really disagreeing with you. People in the mob disappearing in the desert happens quite often. Groups disappearing happens less often. But it's common enough that a group of criminals from a different mob disappearing isn't a sure thing to be linked to Saul. 

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8 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I still don't understand Mike removing the license plate.  Why didn't he himself get it towed to a junkyard and crushed?

While stranded in the desert without cell reception? Getting it towed would've been the ideal long-term solution, but the much more immediate needs were to a) get the car out of sight, so it wouldn't be quite so apparent to the remaining bandito that his prey were wandering around nearby on foot, and b) remove any evidence connecting the vehicle to Jimmy, in case law enforcement happened onto the crime scene and went looking for anyone else involved.

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