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S05.E09: Monsters and Heroes

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When Jamie is bitten by a venomous snake, Claire fears she may not have the resources to save him.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

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1. Glad to see Fergus can still speak.

2. Very glad that someone remembered that Fergus lost a hand and has been very courageous about it. Someone should have mentioned that last week, along with his rape, but this is acceptable.  Would have liked to see interaction between Jamie and Fergus, though.

3. Glad to see Jamie’s disdain for Roger appears to be finished.

4. I think this episode would have worked more for me if I believed for a second they would kill Jamie or make him lose a leg

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I have never loved Ian more than when he told Jamie off. Jamie definitely needed a reality check. He was willing to leave Claire, Bree, and Jemmy behind because he didn't want to fathom life without a leg. Yes, of course it would be hard but how hard would it be for Claire and Bree to live the rest of their lives without him?

And yay, Fergus speaks! I love that the show finally remembered how much Fergus loves Jamie. It was great to see how differently Fergus and Ian showed how much they care about Jamie. I loved seeing Fergus playing with his kids too. He is so freaking underused.

Claire's speech about how Jamie would hate her if she amputated his leg and he would remember that every time he looked down reminded me of the Arizona/Callie storyline on Grey's Anatomy.

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I forgot to mention that I hated that whole passage at the beginning of the episode about all the colors of nature. I haven't read the books and that made glad I didn't. It sounded like what a middle school student would turn in for a creative writing prompt that said "be descriptive about something and use colors."

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3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It sounded like what a middle school student would turn in for a creative writing prompt that said "be descriptive about something and use colors."

I was like okaaay Claire. 

I did laugh after poor Roger's ptsd last week then they show Jamie harping on him in the previouslies. 

I don't know why, but I find bison to be majestic. 

What snakes in America have venom? 

I was glad to see Bree thinking about a school. Though I find it odd only now they're talking about 'Roger finding his purpose.'

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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I loved it! I've loved the last three episodes. I've  read so much about the snake bite in the book thread, that I honestly thought Claire took Jamie's leg. I lived by a buffalo reserve growing up and they are majestic. All the actors hit it out of the park!!

Edited by Miss chi chi

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6 hours ago, nara said:

3. Glad to see Jamie’s disdain for Roger appears to be finished.

4. I think this episode would have worked more for me if I believed for a second they would kill Jamie or make him lose a leg

I don't think they were expecting anyone to think Jamie would be in actual harm, but as you point out in 3, I think they used it as the framing device for Jamie to get the fuck over himself. I know they're largely constrained by the books, but this part of plot was annoying af and dragged out way too long. Roger looks like a bumbling fool for not telling him of sooner. 

Fucking Jamie of course has to correct Roger on the verse number in the bible. 

I did like that Roger's voice wasn't all the way back. 

I kind of laughed when the bison just waltzed into the yard and everyone froze for a second. Good for Bree and Claire though. Great shot. Bree certainly Jamie's daughter for sure. 

I always loved Fergus' crack about being a man of leisure. 

Wait. Did Claire jerk him back to life?

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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While I think many episodes are slow moving, this series is so beautiful. There is so much attention to detail. I think this season has been the slowest so far, and sometimes I move to thinking it is boring but then I sit back and just enjoy how quietly each episode unfolds. 

I knew Jamie was not going to lose a leg or die. it is interesting how they inserted a bear and a bison into this season. 

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In the About the World of Outlander after segment, Matt Roberts explains just how they were able to film the bison for this episode. Yes, there apparently is a bison reserve somewhere in England, even though bison are native to North America. They almost went totally extinct, but we can thank Ted Turner for saving them.

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2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I was like okaaay Claire. 

I did laugh after poor Roger's ptsd last week then they show Jamie harping on him in the previouslies. 

I don't know why, but I find bison to be majestic. 

What snakes in America have venom? 

I was glad to see Bree thinking about a school. Though I find it odd only now they're talking about 'Roger finding his purpose.'

 

Rattlesnakes

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25 minutes ago, SoTheresThat said:

 

Rattlesnakes

Also water moccasins (cottonmouth) and coral snakes, at least here in the south.

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How convenient that the buffalo wonders into their backyard, they didn’t have to carry all that meat across the Ridge.

Nice engineering of the snake syringe, would have been some dark humor if Bree came in with that 5 minutes later.

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Nice engineering of the snake syringe, would have been some dark humor if Bree came in with that 5 minutes later.

When you introduce a gun at the beginning of a story, it has to be used by the end. Seeing Roger so obviously pick up that snake head had to mean something and I was just waiting for that to come full circle.

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7 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I was like okaaay Claire. 

I did laugh after poor Roger's ptsd last week then they show Jamie harping on him in the previouslies. 

I don't know why, but I find bison to be majestic. 

What snakes in America have venom? 

I was glad to see Bree thinking about a school. Though I find it odd only now they're talking about 'Roger finding his purpose.'

 

4 hours ago, SoTheresThat said:

 

Rattlesnakes

 

4 hours ago, TidalCreek said:

Also water moccasins (cottonmouth) and coral snakes, at least here in the south.

Copperhead, cottonmouth, timber rattlesnake, pigmy rattlesnake, eastern diamondback rattlesnake, and eastern coral snake are all venomous snakes found in North Carolina.

Copperheads were something we were told to watch out for specifically when I was a kid running wild in the fields and forests. 

 

Edited by cardigirl
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13 hours ago, nara said:

1. Glad to see Fergus can still speak.

2. Very glad that someone remembered that Fergus lost a hand and has been very courageous about it. Someone should have mentioned that last week, along with his rape, but this is acceptable.  Would have liked to see interaction between Jamie and Fergus, though.

3. Glad to see Jamie’s disdain for Roger appears to be finished.

4. I think this episode would have worked more for me if I believed for a second they would kill Jamie or make him lose a leg

I watch with my hubby, & he thought Jamie might actually die, or lose his leg, but I knew he would be fine!  I laughed that he wanted to go to his bedroom, like he was hiding from Claire & her saw! 

I love that Claire & Bree have finally invented things. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Cdh20 said:

I watch with my hubby, & he thought Jamie might actually die, or lose his leg, but I knew he would be fine!  I laughed that he wanted to go to his bedroom, like he was hiding from Claire & her saw! 

I think he wanted to die in his own bed.  

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1 minute ago, sas616 said:

I think he wanted to die in his own bed.  

Yes, I figured that out, plus he wanted room for Claire to sleep with him! 

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7 minutes ago, Cdh20 said:

  I laughed that he wanted to go to his bedroom, like he was hiding from Claire & her saw! 

Except he had already grabbed the saw, so no need to “hide” from it. Or Claire because it seemed obvious why he wanted to be there.

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5 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

How do you people know so much about snakes? You all Indiana Jones? 

I learned a lot about wildlife growing up. My grandparents taught me. 

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7 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Wait. Did Claire jerk him back to life?

Appears that way. 😂 I don’t mind the sex scenes or anything, but that felt REALLY romance novel like and cheesy. I would’ve prefered a sex scene after Jamie was healed. 

 

9 minutes ago, sas616 said:

I think he wanted to die in his own bed.  

Yes that was definitely it. And he wanted to have Claire beside him when he died. 

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Yay! Fergus had some lines!

I loved Ian telling Jamie to get the eff over himself. Choosing to die because you think you'd be less of a man with one leg is ridiculously selfish. 

When Roger took the snake head, I figured he brought it back to see if Claire or Bree could identify it. I wasn't expecting Bree to Macgyver it into a syringe. 

Hopefully Jamie will ease up on Roger from now on, lol. 

Edited by BitterApple
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8 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Yay! Fergus had some lines!

I loved Ian telling Jamie to get the eff over himself. Choosing to die because you think you'd be less of a man with one leg is ridiculously selfish. 

When Roger took the snake head, I figured he brought it back to see if Claire or Bree could identify it. I wasn't expecting Bree to Macgyver it into a syringe. 

Hopefully Jamie will ease up on Roger from now on, lol. 

I am guessing that this is the turning point, & Roger & Jamie will have a good relationship. I like how it started with Jamie coming to take Bree hunting & he got Roger. Lol! 

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When Jamie is in extreme peril, it occurs to me that he is my favorite tv character. I become irrationally afraid for him. I never thought another character would surpass my love for Wallace on The Wire!

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15 minutes ago, Miss chi chi said:

When Jamie is in extreme peril, it occurs to me that he is my favorite tv character. I become irrationally afraid for him. I never thought another character would surpass my love for Wallace on The Wire!

I have never loved a tv character more than Jamie. 

I notice things like how he made Roger clean the knife with whisky, because Claire said too, I just love that he pays such attention to everything she says.

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1 hour ago, Miss chi chi said:

When Jamie is in extreme peril, it occurs to me that he is my favorite tv character. I become irrationally afraid for him. I never thought another character would surpass my love for Wallace on The Wire!

I figured Jamie wouldn't die, but for a split second I was wondering if the show was going to go there and actually have Claire amputate his leg. That would've been a crazy, unexpected plot twist, but I guess we need Jamie firing on all cylinders for the upcoming war. 

22 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

 

I was glad to see Bree thinking about a school. Though I find it odd only now they're talking about 'Roger finding his purpose.'

I'm finding the "what will Roger do with his life?" plot point to be the most tedious part of the season. I mean, seriously, they've been in the 1700s for three years now and they're just starting to discuss this? Jemmy is 2-ish. I wouldn't trust a toddler's word on whether he hears the stones buzzing, so they probably have a couple more years until they can go back. Start a damn school already. Sheesh. 

I can't explain what it is, but I like Roger and Bree when they interact individually with the other characters, but the two of them together is like nails on a chalkboard for me. Maybe it's because I find their brand of drama so exhausting? 

Edited by BitterApple
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52 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

That would've been a crazy, unexpected plot twist, but I guess we need Jamie firing on all cylinders for the upcoming war. 

He's getting up there in years. Is he going to be able to actually fight? 

2 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

I notice things like how he made Roger clean the knife with whisky, because Claire said too, I just love that he pays such attention to everything she says.

I've been continually baffled about his development. He's clearly not an idiot, but he's not really cut out to be a frontiersman. I'm not either. But then he just acts like a doormat. I get he's not going to yell at everyone, though he's way more justified. As a result, he's just kind of there. Part of that is on Bree too. They made a joke about Jamie coming to get her to hunt, and it's fine that she can and he can't, but it was played as a joke than as - what can he do around here?

58 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I'm finding the "what will Roger do with his life?" plot point to be the most tedious part of the season. I mean, seriously, they've been in the 1700s for three years now and they're just starting to discuss this? Jemmy is 2-ish. I wouldn't trust a toddler's word on whether he hears the stones buzzing, so they probably have a couple more years until they can go back. Start a damn school already. Sheesh. 

I forget how long it's been. That's more than fair to expect they would have this discussion by now. I'd also concede that Bree wants to stick around to deal with the upcoming fire, however that happens to make sure they're all ok. In that case, they got a ways to go. He could take up other skills. I mean, I'm good enough that I could cook. 

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On 4/19/2020 at 12:17 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

<snip>

Wait. Did Claire jerk him back to life?

That's what I wondered!

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17 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

plus he wanted room for Claire to sleep with him! 

And a good thing or she wouldn’t have been able to.. er... “revive” him. 

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Ha, Jamie calling Roger “able-bodied” in the cabin. 😄 

I was glad Ian gave Jamie whatfor. John Bell keeps outshining everyone. I’m very impressed with him. Even just playing Ian, he has such range. He’s good in every scene he plays, and in all the different situations Young Ian has been through. I’ll have to keep my eye out for him in other rolls. 

 

Edited by ferjy · Reason: Autocorrect is brutal today!
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4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

for a split second I was wondering if the show was going to go there and actually have Claire amputate his leg. That would've been a crazy, unexpected plot twist, but I guess we need Jamie firing on all cylinders for the upcoming war. 

More likely they want him firing on all cylinders in his raunchy scenes with Claire. 😜

 

Edited by ferjy
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16 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Choosing to die because you think you'd be less of a man with one leg is ridiculously selfish

It really was. It’s not as if he’s an athlete, or a teenager. Or a weenie like me. I’d rather have my leg cut off than have a bowlful of maggots munching on me. {{shudder}} 😉

 

Edited by ferjy
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Clair will need to be careful with the make-shift syringe since it won’t be airtight.  Don’t squeeze till empty.

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I, of course, have never been head butted by a stampeding buffalo, but I would imagine it is not the kind of thing one just gets up from and goes on as if nothing happened. 

Who knew Claire was such a healer that her bare breasts have the magical power to bring men back from the brink of death? 

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I'm really glad someone brought up Old Ian and Fergus when Jamie was going on about his leg. Young Ian was excellent.  And the callback to 'a man of leisure' was great. But would it have killed them to have Fergus and Jamie actually speak about it.

Wait, Marsali delivered her own damn baby in the woods and we didn't get to see it? I'm shocked they didn't go with the trope of cutting between a birth and a (potential) death.

Claire totally jerked him back to life. 

 

 

Edited by sab85
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4 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

If I had a gf, I'd be faking my death and wailing for the magic hand. 

Don’t forget the magic breasts. The men in the village are going to be lining up at the Big House clinic once word gets around of Claire’s newfound healing skills. All on their deathbed. 

 

Edited by ferjy
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19 hours ago, ferjy said:

Ha, Jamie calling Roger “able-bodied” in the cabin. 😄 

I was glad Ian gave Jamie whatfor. John Bell keeps outshining everyone. I’m very impressed with him. Even just playing Ian, he has such range. He’s good in every scene he plays, and in all the different situations Young Ian has been through. I’ll have to keep my eye out for him in other rolls. 

 

He really is fantastic. I know a lot of fans are focusing on Sam's performance, but John Bell has been knocking it out of the park since his return.

The scene between Ian and Fergus was my favorite of the episode, not only because Fergus finally said something, but because it was a reminder of the history and bond the characters had before the series turned into the Roger and Bree Show. Ian fearing a leg amputation would be a trigger for Fergus was so sweet, as was Fergus' throwback "man of leisure" comment. I hope we get more of these two before the season is over.

Edited by BitterApple
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On 4/19/2020 at 8:52 PM, Lola82 said:

How convenient that the buffalo wonders into their backyard, they didn’t have to carry all that meat across the Ridge.

Nice engineering of the snake syringe, would have been some dark humor if Bree came in with that 5 minutes later.

...as far north as New York and south to Georgia and, according to some sources, down to Florida, with sightings in North Carolina near Buffalo Ford on the Catawba River as late as 1750. << taken from wikipedia

Aren't we in about 1870's in the show? Cuz the buffalo walking into the year was... unrealistic. By 1870 in North Carolina there were no large herds of bison roaming -- sure out west in the plains... anyway that took me right out of the show.

I knew Jaime wasn't going to die (hey! this aint' Buffy!) and I knew that leg wasn't going anywhere so IMO there was no real suspense. Speaking of which-- did Clair jerk him off and that's what saved him?

 

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2 minutes ago, taanja said:

Aren't we in about 1870's in the show?

1771. Remember, the American Revolution is coming up in a few years.

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I think some people  missed the point of Claire’s touch! These two have a special bond, something kind of magical if you will, can I say that because it’s a show that includes time travel? In case you missed it sex is also a very important ingredient in their relationship, but that was not what I got out of that scene- it was intimacy at its finest! 

 

I do not mind all the jokes though, I find them highly amusing! 

Edited by Cdh20 · Reason: grammar
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I thought it was ridiculous that a man (presumably) on his death bed is thinking about having one for the road.

Edited by Haleth
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1 hour ago, Cdh20 said:

I think some people  missed the point of Claire’s touch! These two have a special bond, something kind of magical if you will, can I say that because it’s a show that includes time travel? In case you missed it sex is also a very important ingredient in their relationship, but that was not what I got out of that scene- it was intimacy at its finest! 

 

I do do not mind all the jokes though, I find them highly amusing! 

Agreed, it was about their bond. Skin to skin contact is extremely important for newborns and mothers to solidify a bond so why not have it work in this case. 

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3 hours ago, taanja said:

...as far north as New York and south to Georgia and, according to some sources, down to Florida, with sightings in North Carolina near Buffalo Ford on the Catawba River as late as 1750. << taken from wikipedia

Aren't we in about 1870's in the show? Cuz the buffalo walking into the year was... unrealistic. By 1870 in North Carolina there were no large herds of bison roaming -- sure out west in the plains... anyway that took me right out of the show.

I knew Jaime wasn't going to die (hey! this aint' Buffy!) and I knew that leg wasn't going anywhere so IMO there was no real suspense. Speaking of which-- did Clair jerk him off and that's what saved him?

 

Interesting that Jamie and Claire could be involved in the Battle of Culloden and the Jacobite uprising in 1745, yet somehow be transported 100+ years to 1870s North Carolina, and post-Civil War era. 😛  

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On 4/19/2020 at 11:38 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

That's one magic hand. 

I wasn’t quite sure if it was Claire’s mystical vagina or her “laying on of hands” that brought Jaime back to life and I haven’t wasted my time read the books, but this series has become a caricature of itself. In any event, Claire needs to go out among the masses and similarly treat/cure others who are near death. Wonder if her golden grip works on those of the female persuasion.

Claire’s hand/vagina = 1770’s defibrillator. 

Edited by Auntie Anxiety
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8 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Interesting that Jamie and Claire could be involved in the Battle of Culloden and the Jacobite uprising in 1745, yet somehow be transported 100+ years to 1870s North Carolina, and post-Civil War era. 😛  

No, these last three episodes are set in 1771. 

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