S01.E06: REWATCH: Secret Sex

[Bella]

 

 

"A guy can just as easily dump you if you f*ck him on the first date as he can if you wait until the tenth." - Samantha  

How many of us out there are having sex with people we are ashamed to introduce to our friends? Carrie thinks Mr. Big is keeping her a secret, while Miranda discovers a secret about her new boyfriend. Samantha has never been discreet with anyone she's ever slept with, and Charlotte divulges her past love affair with one of God's chosen people.

 

I'm not going to be here on Monday to make sure the topic is open, so I'm setting this up now without a lock. If you feel compelled to weigh in before Monday, have at it.

[Hanahope]

So, while I agree with Samantha and Miranda that having sex on the first date doesn't necessarily foreclose a relationship, and I do think Charlotte's "rule" of waiting till the 5th or 6th date isn't required either, having sex on the first date seems to me to be a bit fast.  And Carrie's dress was way too provocative.  At least wear something that doesn't put the nipples in total display.  Big certainly understood the implication and I thought it was a bit 'trashy' for a first date with someone who is clearly of a higher class.  But if Carrie wants to play that part, be my guest.   Then she has to talk about it, haha.

 

Mike was shallow and honest. Lol that Libby dumped him.  I think its rude when you don't introduce the person you are with, even if you can't remember the other guy's name. 

 

Oh yeah, Charlotte's first sex with a Jew.  The precurser to Harry.

 

And totally rude of Miranda to go snooping through Ted's apartment.  She deserved to lose him.

[Maherjunkie]

I thought this was the episode that proved Carrie was a nut.  Correct me if I'm wrong-you think a man is ashamed of you because he takes you to a frequent restaurant?

[andromeda331]

Correct me if I'm wrong-you think a man is ashamed of you because he takes you to a frequent restaurant?

 

 

Nope, that's exactly what she thought. Most people would assume he just liked the restaurant a lot. Carrie acted crazy. And why? It was was only their second date they didn't know each other well enough for her already to be coming up with crazy ideas like he was ashamed of her. I honestly wouldn't have been offended by the restaurant or not being introduced to someone. Its only the second date. 

[Inquisitionist]

I would think it a little odd that someone took me to the same out-of-the-way Chinese restaurant on both of our only two dates.  Like most normal people, I'd come right out and ask why, or suggest somewhere else.  But of course, that wouldn't be very dramatic or provide the comedic opportunities of Carrie's approach.  ;-)  I could kinda see how things snowballed after her learning about Mike's motives for taking his "secret sex" partner there, but showing up at Big's apartment drunk to rant about the situation was too much.  (Wait, that did happen in this episode, didn't it?  Or am I confusing it with another of Carrie's OTT experiences?)

[Maherjunkie]

It was either here or the Monogamists eps, I think.

[Mozelle]

I thought this was the episode that proved Carrie was a nut.  Correct me if I'm wrong-you think a man is ashamed of you because he takes you to a frequent restaurant?

 

I'm going to put it into context. Carrie didn't just automatically jump to that thought. It was after hearing that douche Mike be all, "Oh, yeah. Totally! This is exactly the place you take a girl you don't want anyone to see you with" that got the gears turning in Carrie's mind. It made her look at the situation differently when Big took her there a second time. 

 

Then she got drunk, and nothing good ever comes from anyone getting drunk.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Mozelle

[Maherjunkie]

If it was me, stalking me at church would have been her 3rd strike.  Or calling me at 3am to stand still with me because I need monogamy after a few dates.

[Inquisitionist]

Oh my gosh, yes, Maherjunkie!  Carrie morphed into a different person after she got hung up on Big.  She had been so "cool" before their first actual date, but became crazy-needy so quickly afterwards.  I know the objective was to show that love (or infatuation) can totally discombobulate us, and the exaggeration was for comic effect, but some of the antics would have been very hard to take "in real life."

[ShellSeeker]

Finally watched this episode! I had forgotten just how rather trampy that dress was. 

 

 

 

I'm going to put it into context. Carrie didn't just automatically jump to that thought. It was after hearing that douche Mike be all, "Oh, yeah. Totally! This is exactly the place you take a girl you don't want anyone to see you with" that got the gears turning in Carrie's mind. It made her look at the situation differently when Big took her there a second time.

Then she got drunk, and nothing good ever comes from anyone getting drunk.

 

Yeah, as much as Carrie drove me nuts throughout the run of the series, I couldn't roll my eyes too much at this. I've done the same thing -- I think we all have. Over-analyzed every word a guy says, every little look he gives you, every mannerism, and so on, and then driven ourselves nuts. This was relateable crazy Carrie.

 

I also found it hard to believe that Miranda was so shocked to find the naughty spanking video. Lots of people have fantasies about things they might never actually try or do. As a single woman living in NYC, that couldn't have been a new idea for her. She'd only dated that guy a few times -- way too soon to start sharing deeply personal stuff like that. So I didn't think her teasing that guy about wanting a spanking was a smart move -- or a believable one.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Queasy-bo

[Gothish520]

The Naked dress was all kinds of ridiculous. Don't get me wrong - SJP looked AMAZING in it, but that was far too much skin and nip for a first or second date. 

I'm finding Miranda very unlikable in these early episodes. Bringing up the spanking to that guy was dumb. He was obviously pissed that she snooped, and probably a bit embarassed/ashamed. 

That being said, I probably would've snooped too. If I found something that truly disturbed me, I would just try to end the relationship in a more natural way. It doesn't seem that she was all that disturbed by the video, just a bit...confused? But teasing him about it was not the way to go.

[LemonSoda]

23 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

The Naked dress was all kinds of ridiculous. Don't get me wrong - SJP looked AMAZING in it, but that was far too much skin and nip for a first or second date. 

I'm finding Miranda very unlikable in these early episodes. Bringing up the spanking to that guy was dumb. He was obviously pissed that she snooped, and probably a bit embarassed/ashamed. 

That being said, I probably would've snooped too. If I found something that truly disturbed me, I would just try to end the relationship in a more natural way. It doesn't seem that she was all that disturbed by the video, just a bit...confused? But teasing him about it was not the way to go.

I felt that way about a lot of Carrie's date outfits. Isn't that a bit much for a first date? 

Miranda was very harsh early in the series. 

I remember being put off by some of their behavior toward sex, how they handled certain situations in the series. In a "why are women in their 30's in NYC acting this way?" type of way. Carrie seemed very prudish despite being a sex columnist. Also how they immaturely handled certain situations. I didn't get it.

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, LemonSoda said:

I felt that way about a lot of Carrie's date outfits. Isn't that a bit much for a first date? 

Miranda was very harsh early in the series. 

I remember being put off by some of their behavior toward sex, how they handled certain situations in the series. In a "why are women in their 30's in NYC acting this way?" type of way. Carrie seemed very prudish despite being a sex columnist. Also how they immaturely handled certain situations. I didn't get it.

She really was despite her job as a sex columnist. I thought she'd be more fun and/or curious.        

[LemonSoda]

12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

She really was despite her job as a sex columnist. I thought she'd be more fun and/or curious.        

Also less judgmental or shocked by the antics of others. Even telling yourself that she bs'd her way in to the job despite not knowing much doesn't work because her reactions to the situations were too over the top for a manhattan party girl who has been there done that. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, LemonSoda said:

Also less judgmental or shocked by the antics of others. Even telling yourself that she bs'd her way in to the job despite not knowing much doesn't work because her reactions to the situations were too over the top for a manhattan party girl who has been there done that. 

Your very right about that. You'd almost think Carrie was doing another job and somehow ended up or the newspaper she worked at dropped the sex column in her lap when the series began. She really wasn't fun or curious, she was very judgmental and shocked by a lot of what she saw. Had she been anything but a new she really shouldn't have been. She might be surprised by some stuff but not most of it. She lived in NYC and had for many years she would have heard or seen a lot of the stuff she wrote about just from stories club hopping and dating, or from her friends especially Samantha.           

[LemonSoda]

5 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Your very right about that. You'd almost think Carrie was doing another job and somehow ended up or the newspaper she worked at dropped the sex column in her lap when the series began. She really wasn't fun or curious, she was very judgmental and shocked by a lot of what she saw. Had she been anything but a new she really shouldn't have been. She might be surprised by some stuff but not most of it. She lived in NYC and had for many years she would have heard or seen a lot of the stuff she wrote about just from stories club hopping and dating, or from her friends especially Samantha.           

Absolutely! It was as if she was at a party and someone from a newspaper said "You should write for us". When she would name drop places she used to hang out I would wonder how someone who had spent the 80's and 90's clubbing in NYC could be so shocked. Um you hung out at the Tunnel and CBGB and you're shocked by things mentioned monthly in Cosmo? I never understood that at all. Sometimes I wonder if SJP's refusal for nudity/certain storylines changed the character's character. 

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, LemonSoda said:

Absolutely! It was as if she was at a party and someone from a newspaper said "You should write for us". When she would name drop places she used to hang out I would wonder how someone who had spent the 80's and 90's clubbing in NYC could be so shocked. Um you hung out at the Tunnel and CBGB and you're shocked by things mentioned monthly in Cosmo? I never understood that at all. Sometimes I wonder if SJP's refusal for nudity/certain storylines changed the character's character. 

That's a good point! How shocked could you be after hanging out at those clubs?          

[LemonSoda]

21 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

That's a good point! How shocked could you be after hanging out at those clubs?          

Exactly! Also, I know they're two different shows with different writers but teenage Carrie in The Carrie Diaries showed more maturity and adventure than adult Carrie. It's  never been confirmed but I think so much of Carrie's character was diminished by SJP's restrictions. 

[andromeda331]

2 minutes ago, LemonSoda said:

Exactly! Also, I know they're two different shows with different writers but teenage Carrie in The Carrie Diaries showed more maturity and adventure than adult Carrie. It's  never been confirmed but I think so much of Carrie's character was diminished by SJP's restrictions. 

Oh, she definitely was by halfway through the series. I hadn't realized it started sooner then that. But that certainly could explain it. The other three characters are off in the beginning of the series in a way they weren't later on. Almost as if they hadn't completely figured out the characters yet. When they did that made their characters better.  Carrie's the only one that ended up becoming worse. Carrie made less sense, her career made less sense given how judgmental and shocked got when it came her job, and how long she's lived NYC, she seems to make all the mistakes when dating Big that almost anyone else would avoid. The stalking, the freaking out at things when they didn't seem to be dating that long. It might have made sense if they were going for someone who's really good at giving advice to others but very bad at taking it or figuring out her own relationships. But that's not really what happens. She had doesn't gain a lot of different interests either. The other girls had interests. They were shown to be competent at their career and really seemed to be doing something they loved. It doesn't really seem like three characters would be developed further, while one really isn't unless someone was restricting it.   

[Gothish520]

12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Oh, she definitely was by halfway through the series. I hadn't realized it started sooner then that. But that certainly could explain it. The other three characters are off in the beginning of the series in a way they weren't later on. Almost as if they hadn't completely figured out the characters yet. When they did that made their characters better.  Carrie's the only one that ended up becoming worse. Carrie made less sense, her career made less sense given how judgmental and shocked got when it came her job, and how long she's lived NYC, she seems to make all the mistakes when dating Big that almost anyone else would avoid. The stalking, the freaking out at things when they didn't seem to be dating that long. It might have made sense if they were going for someone who's really good at giving advice to others but very bad at taking it or figuring out her own relationships. But that's not really what happens. She had doesn't gain a lot of different interests either. The other girls had interests. They were shown to be competent at their career and really seemed to be doing something they loved. It doesn't really seem like three characters would be developed further, while one really isn't unless someone was restricting it.   

I'm into the second season now, and the stuff with Big is confusing, but I sort of get it, maybe? I feel like the show really did not devote a lot of time to developing their relationship - I never saw any scenes where you could really see that they were "in love". So for Carrie to act the way she did from this episode on...I don't know. Questioning why he took her to that restaurant, the ex wife, stalking him and his mother at church, demanding that he tell her she's the One - it felt too soon, and I think they were trying to show us that Big felt it was too soon as well. I guess the show was using the voiceovers to move the relationship along faster than we the viewers had observed. They did only have a half an hour a week to tell four stories, even though Carrie is definitely the protagonist. 

Big tried to tell her to slow her roll - but, I do get that it is very hard to do that when you are more advanced in a relationship than your partner is. Many men are perfectly content to move at what seems like a glacial pace in a relationship - they enjoy and value their freedom and aren't in any hurry to commit. If the woman is already mentally "there", it can be torture.

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Gothish520 said:

I'm into the second season now, and the stuff with Big is confusing, but I sort of get it, maybe? I feel like the show really did not devote a lot of time to developing their relationship - I never saw any scenes where you could really see that they were "in love". So for Carrie to act the way she did from this episode on...I don't know. Questioning why he took her to that restaurant, the ex wife, stalking him and his mother at church, demanding that he tell her she's the One - it felt too soon, and I think they were trying to show us that Big felt it was too soon as well. I guess the show was using the voiceovers to move the relationship along faster than we the viewers had observed. They did only have a half an hour a week to tell four stories, even though Carrie is definitely the protagonist. 

Big tried to tell her to slow her roll - but, I do get that it is very hard to do that when you are more advanced in a relationship than your partner is. Many men are perfectly content to move at what seems like a glacial pace in a relationship - they enjoy and value their freedom and aren't in any hurry to commit. If the woman is already mentally "there", it can be torture.

I agree Carrie and Big never really felt like they "in love". You couldn't really see it. Almost everything Carrie did seem too soon or that she was trying rush their relationship when it looked and felt like they were still in the beginning stages of relationship. If they had added time jumps or said how long they had been together that would have made more sense. It really was all too soon and Carrie just comes off crazy for doing all these things so early in the relationship.  She really should have listened when Big told her to slow her roll or tried figure out why she was trying to make the relationship go faster. Was it insecurities? Worried if they slowed down Big would be gone because they were so different and/or worried that he could get any woman he wanted? If they had done that and talked then maybe go back to slowing things down and seeing how things go. The episode where she demands him tell her she's the One. How long have they been dating at that point? Why couldn't she just go on the vacation and have a great time. Who knows? Maybe they would have become closer during the vacation. It happens. Same with when he tells her he's moving to Paris. How long have they been dating? Carrie flips out. I get being upset but their relationship didn't seem to be in the stage where they base their career around each other.   

[Melancholy]

Carrie and Big hardly seemed happy together but I did buy their connection/love. SJP really played Carrie’s longing for Big even when he was right there. We never saw Big in other contexts but CN gave off that Big was having fun with Carrie removed from his buttoned up corporate WASP cum Batman life. But yeah, Carrie was far ahead of Big and to a far lesser extent, ahead of a typical relationship time table on when she expected certain commitments. She decided to deal with that common frustration by playing the martyr or stalking Big or bullying Big or being a doormat or obsessing about her breakups and not moving onto new relationships- all of the most unhealthy and destructive roles. And she never broke out of that pattern for the whole series and even the movies. Carrie loved Big- but it’s not an excuse for how she behaved. Also, Carrie passionately and strongly loved Big but in a very limited and superficial way. It’s an odd combo. She thought he was the perfect man- the emblem of her New York dream of desire and glamor, a Daddy who can provide large but so witty and dangerous that any woman running alongside him feels like a W-O-M-A-N. No man could ever compete. But yet, their hearts couldn’t bond because Carrie thought he was a bad person. I can’t respect a person’s romantic love for another if the former thinks the latter is a “bad guy”. Blood relations can have that unconditional love but you choose love in romance. Carrie had contradictory impulses where she thought Big was such a dream guy that he needed to be fought over and also such a piece of shit that he needed to be pushed into a relationship because he can’t be trusted on his own time table. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Melancholy

[Bb78]

On 12/07/2014 at 3:34 PM, Bella said:

 

I'm not going to be here on Monday to make sure the topic is open, so I'm setting this up now without a lock. If you feel compelled to weigh in before Monday, have at it.

I agree 💯%. If he really likes you he will make you his wifey regardless of weather the sex was good or bad. 

Some might say sex on the first date is too soon but if you've been friends for a while then it's not. 

Also theirs a good amount of people who do go onto a relationship after sex on the first date like 30% but they won't admit it.