S01.E10: Zoey’s Extraordinary Outburst

[taragel]

If it gets renewed, I'm gonna need them to find some way to incorporate Mitch into a S2 and I don't really care how ridiculous it gets. Peter Gallagher is the beating heart of this show and there is just magic when he performs. I like the rest of the show and cast a lot but...without him there will be a real gap in the core/backbone of the show. It'll just be a very annoying love triangle and office frustrations. 😕 Also, the whole family will be grieving so much that I would expect it to change the tone/feel a lot. 

[bros402]

This episode was... something. I liked Mitch's song at the end. Zoey was horrible towards people - but understandably so. Max was just being a dick - both groups should've been allowed Max's base code, then compete from there.

Lauren Graham is not a strong singer, her part of her song was rough.

Leif being in love with her feels a bit... unearned/awkward, but maybe he just feels things strongly and quickly?

 

On 4/19/2020 at 10:41 PM, possibilities said:

Likewise, a restaurant that refuses to allow a wheelchair on the premises is a slam dunk lawsuit and Zoey was not wrong to challenge them about it. She was wrong to let it go, and not to sue their asses out of business entirely.

It all depends on the restaurant - and if it has had recent renovations. I believe if any kind of decent sized renovation is done on a building, outside of certain circumstances, that requires them to renovate into ADA compliance. In addition, California has *very* strong disability rights laws, to the point where California, along with some other states, have "disability trolls" - who will frivolously file lawsuits to try to get money, which is not the case with Mitch, but you think the restaurant that they have been going to for decades would want to avoid a suit like that.

[SnarkEnthusiast]

While Zoey's dad's decline is very painful and unpleasant to watch as a viewer, I wasn't really a fan of devoting an episode to her screaming and crying at characters who didn't deserve it (her poor mom, the dude who just ended his relationship for her, the caregiver maintaining her dad's quality of life). Yeah yeah, grief makes you lash out, blah blah but this episode did nothing to improve my overall impression of Zoey as kind of a shitty, self-absorbed person.

I'm no love expert, but I'm pretty sure that going from manic foreplay to a screaming match so loud your neighbors have to come break it up is a sign that this supposed relationship wouldn't be healthy, context aside.

The post-fight aggression dance party was beyond ridiculous and I can't believe Mo, Zoey, and Simon all took it so seriously. It felt like Mo was a preschool teacher trying to smooth over things between two belligerent 4-year-olds. But I do love I Don't Care.

Felt bad for Leif, but I liked the slight twist of him actually having feelings for Joan instead of the tired "younger man manipulates lonely older woman for power" plot, even if that's how he himself planned it to go! Although it's a little sloppy that we haven't seen their relationship at all. Leif's actor did a great job of portraying that subtle devastation when Joan non-nonchalantly broke it off.

Max is a whiny, smarmy, manipulative asshole. Water is wet.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

On 4/19/2020 at 7:31 PM, Lady Calypso said:

It was truly filled with emotion and made me sad that we won't get many more Peter Gallagher numbers (maybe one more).

These last two episodes are going to be rough with Mitch's inevitable death. Plus, we don't know if the series will be renewed for this may be the final two episodes.

Are these spoilers?

Within the context of the show, it's fair to assume he's going to die. They gave him a few weeks an episode or two ago - about the length of the rest of the season. So not spoilers, so much as speculation based on what we've been told within the show.

[Notwisconsin]

53 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Are these spoilers?

No, reactions to "Chekov's gun." If there's a gun shown in act one, then it will go off by the end.

[topanga]

On 4/19/2020 at 11:40 PM, Dani said:

At this point I am really hoping there is some kind of season ending twist because I feel like these people live in the Twilight Zone. I’m still sticking with Zoey being unconscious after the MRI incident. 

Please, God, no. I hate those kind of reveals. "It was all a dream." Makes the entire season and my emotional investment in the characters feel like a waste.

 

On 4/20/2020 at 7:30 AM, shapeshifter said:

I’m assuming it ends with dad’s death, but Zoey unconscious in the MRI is better because then there’s hope for dad IRL to get better, I guess. 
My 91-year-old mother has been in the blinking yes state for about 2 years now. Prior to that she could beat me at Scrabble and solve crosswords I couldn’t even when her hands stopped working. For her, death would be the better ending. 

13 hours ago, Aliconehead said:

My 76 year old father is in a similar state.  He is essentially vegetative, unlike PG character he would not have been able to use a alphabet board or a yes no button.  He too would prefer death to living like this.  I am struck every time PG is on the screen how well he does the spaced out relaxed mouth look that my father also has.  
 

 

I'm sorry both of you are going through this. Your parents are fortunate to have someone like you who loves them and cares for them. My mother is aging and has health issues, not quite as severe, but the family story line still resonates with me

 

14 hours ago, Retired at last said:

The dancing with Mo was funny, but I really did not like the choreography when Simon sang Mad World. I really hope that he and Zoey end up as friends because I don't like him (his character) for her. They are really screwing up Max because the Max we met at the beginning would have been there with Zoey at the end of her Dad. I haven't seen whether this show has been renewed, but it has to be so expensive to produce, that unless it is killing it with the ratings (and I don't think it is), I bet it will be one and done, which is such a shame. This type of show is truly appreciated by a smaller number of viewers, who are very vocal fans, but there aren't enough of us.

I liked Simon's dancing, but when he elevated onto the peninsula of his kitchen, the counter and cabinetry shook--it took me out of the scene. Bad set builders!

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by topanga

[topanga]

23 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

It cracked me up to see Tobin's ever more elaborate seafood. First it was a giant shrimp cocktail, then a whole lobster! Hee.

My son and I laughed when we saw that scene. Those huge shrimp reminded us of Eleanor in Season 1 of The Good Place. I wonder if that was a shout out. 

[JamieLynn832002]

Max is being a jerk but I can sort of understand it. From a personal standpoint, he needs to get over this anger and he shouldn't be expressing it but he knows Zoey might hear it anyway so he might feel like it's better to express it how he wants than to let a "heart song" do it. From a professional one, he's apparently so little valued on the 4th flooor that Zoey didn't bother to tell Joan he was leaving until after the fact and even then it was seemingly only because Joan noticed the floor seemed emptier.

I enjoy the show but I kind of feel like the premise is growing problematic because no one is consenting to share these thoughts with Zoey and while she usually does try help with them, she also kind of uses them to her advantage or tells someone's intermost thoughts to other people who also don't really have the right to know them. She and Simon wouldn't have grown as close without her ability and neither would she and Joan and the way she shares Leif's feelings/thoughts with Joan seems unfair. Leif's generally a jerk but he still has the right his feelings  without them being told to someone without his permission or knowledge. I know Zoey can't help hearing these thoughts since we've seen her try to escape them but be followed but it feels kind of gross in some instances.

[AzraeltheCat]

On 4/19/2020 at 10:31 PM, Lady Calypso said:

On the other end of the love triangle, Max got WORSE for me. Although I could see his point about how the fourth floor treated him and why he wanted to stay upstairs, he was still acting like a total asshole. He was still obviously holding over Zoey's rejection over her head by keeping the code. The way he looked at her when he said that nobody cared if he had left was more about how ZOEY didn't care, in his eyes. Although I'm sure that part of it was him feeling undervalued...it's important to remember that Zoey was the one who encouraged him to move upstairs for his career and then he threw that reason in her face in their final fight, which confused me.

Agree a million times! Zoey has been honest with Max that she doesn't want to risk losing their friendship, at least not now. She also told him she would miss him on 4, but recognized that he was getting a well deserved promotion.  But he's sulking because she wouldn't say she loved him, didn't beg him stay, and that no one on 4 thought he was any good.... but Zoey did.  He's just being spiteful now [also, yes to whoever said both 4 and 6 should get the basic code as written and the 2 floors can compete from here on out]. I really, really, don't like him now.  Also, someone can be a wonderful friend and love you, but you can't always return the feeling or not in the same way.  It doesn't make Zoey a bad person for not being in love with him.  He can feel hurt about it but it's not like she led him on.  

I think Simon and Zoey have a lot of chemistry, and have the dead/dying dad connection, but it remains to be seen if there's more. 

I don't know anything about the actor that plays Leif and what he did before, but I do think he is one of the better singers and the songs he's given really work with his voice. 

[Notwisconsin]

37 minutes ago, AzraeltheCat said:

I really, really, don't like him now. 

You're not supposed to. This show is WOKE® and all straight men are bad. You will notice that all the people working there are men except Zoey and the two bosses.

[Jsage]

On 4/20/2020 at 9:25 AM, chaifan said:

Sorry to slam Lauren Graham so much - I really do like the actress, but she's not doing it for me in this role.  Everyone else's roles showcase their strengths, but hers shows her weaknesses.

I agree. I think she is miscast in this role. I like that not everyone in the cast is a professional singer. (It makes me feel better about myself!)  But Joan is a main character that gets so many songs and complex choreography. Unfortunately, Lauren Graham takes me out of these scenes because her singing/dancing skills are so weak.

[Guest]

I loved how they danced it out. The Boy Is Mine was incredible- I love hearing Renee Goldsberry.

[Dowel Jones]

If I worked at Sprkpoint as a level 4 grunt, I would spend my time hatching an incredibly complex plot to hijack the seafood tray on its way up to the 6th floor.  Of course, it would require subterfuge and misdirection so that they would never know it had been stolen.  Worth an episode.

[bros402]

16 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

While Zoey's dad's decline is very painful and unpleasant to watch as a viewer, I wasn't really a fan of devoting an episode to her screaming and crying at characters who didn't deserve it (her poor mom, the dude who just ended his relationship for her, the caregiver maintaining her dad's quality of life). Yeah yeah, grief makes you lash out, blah blah but this episode did nothing to improve my overall impression of Zoey as kind of a shitty, self-absorbed person.

I think her lashing out felt rational - she even did the right thing and apologized to Howie.

[Notwisconsin]

Zoey is a failed superhero. She tries to use her superpower for good, but she fails most of the time.

[red12]

On 4/21/2020 at 12:22 AM, bros402 said:

This episode was... something. I liked Mitch's song at the end. Zoey was horrible towards people - but understandably so. Max was just being a dick - both groups should've been allowed Max's base code, then compete from there.

Lauren Graham is not a strong singer, her part of her song was rough.

Leif being in love with her feels a bit... unearned/awkward, but maybe he just feels things strongly and quickly?

 

It all depends on the restaurant - and if it has had recent renovations. I believe if any kind of decent sized renovation is done on a building, outside of certain circumstances, that requires them to renovate into ADA compliance. In addition, California has *very* strong disability rights laws, to the point where California, along with some other states, have "disability trolls" - who will frivolously file lawsuits to try to get money, which is not the case with Mitch, but you think the restaurant that they have been going to for decades would want to avoid a suit like that.

I'm glad someone else does not have a good experience with Lauren's voice. I actually don't enjoy her performances at all. I understand every character should not have a Broadway caliber voice but, I had to fast forward through the funky get down attempt with Renee Elise Goldsberry because the second hand embarrassment was just too much.

[chaifan]

37 minutes ago, red12 said:

I'm glad someone else does not have a good experience with Lauren's voice. I actually don't enjoy her performances at all. I understand every character should not have a Broadway caliber voice but, I had to fast forward through the funky get down attempt with Renee Elise Goldsberry because the second hand embarrassment was just too much.

That's the crazy part... Lauren Graham was on Broadway!  Guys & Dolls, as Adelaide, about 10 years ago.  She should have the chops for this, but somehow, just doesn't.  And she actually sound autotuned in the beginning of the number with REG. 

[Mojeaux]

Most of the time, this show just makes me bawl by the end of the episode.

Zoey was a dick. And I LIKED it. Yes, she's selfish and self-absorbed. It's been stated that she's a bit emotionally stunted, and she's growing into feeling and she doesn't like it. Of course she's going to snap. Has she ever snapped before? Doubt it. She is learning to feel and it hurts.

Max. Their friendship was over the second he did the flash mob thingie. There is no coming back from "I love you," "Uh, yeah, maybe we should just be friends." I don't know why stories still have "keeping the friendship" as an option. It's not. So to me, it doesn't matter if he's not thinking about Zoey's dad dying. He took a shot. It didn't hit the target. He got a new opportunity. Zoey supported him as a friend would when what he wanted was for her to beg him to stay. Very passive-aggressive and I don't like it, but I get it.

I don't buy Leif as heterosexual, much less in love with Joan, and whoever said the skinny trousers bugged was exactly right. His wardrobe is...ugh. They have done very little character development with him so he is not organic and in fact, kind of zig-zaggy.

I also don't buy that anybody on the 6th floor cares about Max. It's been 2 effing days, FFS. One awkward little spiel does not an effective manager make.

Zoey being asleep in an MRI and "this is all a dream" would make sense. I don't have a problem with "I dreamed the whole thing" especially if the character learned something and went to set things right.

I like Mo, but he's really just a cliche. There's not much new you can do with the sassy Black bestie stock character.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Mojeaux

[red12]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

That's the crazy part... Lauren Graham was on Broadway!  Guys & Dolls, as Adelaide, about 10 years ago.  She should have the chops for this, but somehow, just doesn't.  And she actually sound autotuned in the beginning of the number with REG. 

It is rare in these days and times to feel the shock of a statement they way I felt this revelation.

[bros402]

12 hours ago, red12 said:

I'm glad someone else does not have a good experience with Lauren's voice. I actually don't enjoy her performances at all. I understand every character should not have a Broadway caliber voice but, I had to fast forward through the funky get down attempt with Renee Elise Goldsberry because the second hand embarrassment was just too much.

 

11 hours ago, chaifan said:

That's the crazy part... Lauren Graham was on Broadway!  Guys & Dolls, as Adelaide, about 10 years ago.  She should have the chops for this, but somehow, just doesn't.  And she actually sound autotuned in the beginning of the number with REG. 

8 hours ago, red12 said:

It is rare in these days and times to feel the shock of a statement they way I felt this revelation.

Put me in that shocked category too. Maybe she had some work done that messed with her voice? Or maybe they just keep choosing songs that don't fit her?

10 hours ago, Mojeaux said:

I don't buy Leif as heterosexual, much less in love with Joan, and whoever said the skinny trousers bugged was exactly right. His wardrobe is...ugh. They have done very little character development with him so he is not organic and in fact, kind of zig-zaggy.

Why don't you think Leif is heterosexual? Straight guys can care about their looks.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, bros402 said:

Why don't you think Leif is heterosexual? Straight guys can care about their looks.

Exactly. Plus being in love with Joan doesn’t mean that he’s heterosexual. 

 

20 hours ago, bros402 said:

On 4/22/2020 at 12:57 PM, chaifan said:

That's the crazy part... Lauren Graham was on Broadway!  Guys & Dolls, as Adelaide, about 10 years ago.  She should have the chops for this, but somehow, just doesn't.  And she actually sound autotuned in the beginning of the number with REG. 

On 4/22/2020 at 3:45 PM, red12 said:

It is rare in these days and times to feel the shock of a statement they way I felt this revelation.

Put me in that shocked category too. Maybe she had some work done that messed with her voice? Or maybe they just keep choosing songs that don't fit her?

There’s video of her from Guys & Dolls on YouTube and she’s wasn’t that good in it either. She did the same talk singing with a cutesy voice that she does as Joan. It’s like she’s trying to act her way through her songs. 

[Notwisconsin]

4 hours ago, Dani said:

Exactly. Plus being in love with Joan doesn’t mean that he’s heterosexual. 

to some extent, yeah, it does.

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

 

Put me in that shocked category too. Maybe she had some work done that messed with her voice? Or maybe they just keep choosing songs that don't fit her?

Or maybe she wasn't that good? As a tv star, she had an "in" that normal broadway performers don't .

5 hours ago, Dani said:

There’s video of her from Guys & Dolls on YouTube and she’s wasn’t that good in it either. She did the same talk singing with a cutesy voice that she does as Joan. It’s like she’s trying to act her way through her songs. 

I haven't seen it, but I can believe it.

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

Or maybe they just keep choosing songs that don't fit her?

I think they do this a lot, and not just with LG. They choose a song that fits the story and the actor has to make it work, not always successfully. I don't think Mary Steenburgen should be singing at all, but at least they redo the songs in her range.

And to be fair to everyone, there's likely very little time to practice. Broadway productions have had months of rehearsal time to get things right. This show likely has a few weeks. That makes a difference, especially if you're rusty and/or not a strong singer to begin with. 

[topanga]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I think they do this a lot, and not just with LG. They choose a song that fits the story and the actor has to make it work, not always successfully. I don't think Mary Steenburgen should be singing at all, but at least they redo the songs in her range.

And to be fair to everyone, there's likely very little time to practice. Broadway productions have had months of rehearsal time to get things right. This show likely has a few weeks. That makes a difference, especially if you're rusty and/or not a strong singer to begin with. 

Good points. Some actors are better than others at learning and performing quickly. For example, even though I don't like Max anymore, Skylar Astin kills it on all of his songs. And Peter Gallagher? Amazing. I didn't know Jane Levy could sing at all, so I enjoy her songs as well. 

John Clarence Stewart (Simon) has a beautiful voice and is a great dancer, but sometimes his choreography is weird. It's like he's doing performance art. 

I'll give Mary Steenburgen some grace. For a non-professional singer, she sounds really good. 

 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 4/20/2020 at 12:37 PM, Empress1 said:

I was actually with Max in theory, but his motivations were dumb. Let's assume all the HR stuff is sorted out because Ava's got it like that. From what I can tell, the sixth-floor job is a promotion. I think he now has Zoey's job, which is already a step up, and it seems like the sixth floor does more important/prestigious work. There is no reason to stay at a lower level when you're tapped to move up. Max is making the right career move - it shouldn't be personal (but we know for him it is, because he wants to be near Zoey, which is dumb. Like she said, they work for the same company). 

Joan was like "Come back to where you were before," which is effectively a demotion, which is not how counter-offers work. She wasn't making a counter-offer. No one caring that you're leaving is usually a sign that you're right to leave. Like, of course he should stay where he is.

 

On 4/20/2020 at 1:06 PM, tennisgurl said:

I dont blame Max for staying up on the top floor in his sci fi world with the fancy seafood and co-workers that actually seem to like him. The only person who he got along with downstairs was Zoey, and his boss hardly noticed him.

Except when said boss gave him a really tepid employee evaluation which basically said he was lazy and his work didn't stand out.  Nor had he tried out for Zoey's current job because he lacked ambition (or perhaps did not want to compete with her.)  Now, out of the blue, he was offered an arguably better job than Zoey's despite that review.  The offer didn't make sense, if Ava was telling the truth that it had nothing to do with his work on the Chirp, but he would have been crazy to turn it down as he had recently been told that he wasn't a valuable employee on the 4th floor.

[roctavia]

3 hours ago, topanga said:

Good points. Some actors are better than others at learning and performing quickly. For example, even though I don't like Max anymore, Skylar Astin kills it on all of his songs. And Peter Gallagher? Amazing. I didn't know Jane Levy could sing at all, so I enjoy her songs as well. 

John Clarence Stewart (Simon) has a beautiful voice and is a great dancer, but sometimes his choreography is weird. It's like he's doing performance art. 

I'll give Mary Steenburgen some grace. For a non-professional singer, she sounds really good. 

 

Most of the dances for Simon are very contemporary, which is a style I particularly enjoy, so this past week and last week with the breakup song, I really enjoyed the choreography along with the singing. 

But it's not a style for everyone 😜   

[topanga]

On 4/22/2020 at 2:38 PM, Mojeaux said:

I like Mo, but he's really just a cliche. There's not much new you can do with the sassy Black bestie stock character.

Yes, the sassy black side-kick is a tired trope. But what makes it tolerable for me this time is that Mo is a well-developed character, and the show gives him (in most episodes) his own plot and his own character arc. He doesn't exist solely to prop up Zoey. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, topanga said:

Yes, the sassy black side-kick is a tired trope. But what makes it tolerable for me this time is that Mo is a well-developed character, and the show gives him (in most episodes) his own plot and his own character arc. He doesn't exist solely to prop up Zoey. 

Exactly. Plus Mo was rewritten when Alex Newell was cast and his storylines draw directly from Alex’s personality and life. That has given the character the depth beyond just being the sassy black side-kick. 

Besides haven’t we reach the point where every character is a trope. Like you said the key is if the trope is well developed into a fully realized character. 

[bros402]

16 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I think they do this a lot, and not just with LG. They choose a song that fits the story and the actor has to make it work, not always successfully. I don't think Mary Steenburgen should be singing at all, but at least they redo the songs in her range.

And to be fair to everyone, there's likely very little time to practice. Broadway productions have had months of rehearsal time to get things right. This show likely has a few weeks. That makes a difference, especially if you're rusty and/or not a strong singer to begin with. 

Yeah, MS is definitely one of the weaker singers on the cast - but I would place her above Lauren Graham.
 

4 hours ago, Dani said:

Exactly. Plus Mo was rewritten when Alex Newell was cast and his storylines draw directly from Alex’s personality and life. That has given the character the depth beyond just being the sassy black side-kick. 

Besides haven’t we reach the point where every character is a trope. Like you said the key is if the trope is well developed into a fully realized character. 

Mo is great - I hope he continues to develop.

[yourmomiseasy]

So files don't just get magically deleted from GIT if committed and if they couldn't restore them it makes me think that Max did it on purpose, which seems kind of over the top.  Or the writers just used some techy sounding words.  Granted it's been several years since I've worked with GIT, but the whole purpose of version control is so shit like this doesn't happen.  

[Squeaky Mouse]

On 4/24/2020 at 5:31 AM, yourmomiseasy said:

So files don't just get magically deleted from GIT if committed and if they couldn't restore them it makes me think that Max did it on purpose, which seems kind of over the top.  Or the writers just used some techy sounding words.  Granted it's been several years since I've worked with GIT, but the whole purpose of version control is so shit like this doesn't happen.  

I assumed Ava (Eva?) deleted them, and all of Max's files, when he moved upstairs. I thought Max himself seemed a little surprised they weren't there.

[bros402]

2 hours ago, Squeaky Mouse said:

I assumed Ava (Eva?) deleted them, and all of Max's files, when he moved upstairs. I thought Max himself seemed a little surprised they weren't there.

She said that she "secured" them

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Zoey's family brought up whether their favorite restaurant could fit her dad's wheelchair, I was like what are you talking about? The ADA requires wheelchair accessibility!

Can we get a moratorium on the contemporary choreography? No more, please! I know that Mandy Moore is capable of lyrical and jazz so let that Mad World dance be the last contemporary routine we get.

Yay for Renee Elise Goldsberry getting to sing! More, more! But without Lauren Graham because that was really a mismatch in both singing and dancing.

Haha, LOVED Tobin keeping Joan's keycard so he could go back to the sixth floor for more seafood. He is going to be really hurt when he finds out that Leif abandoned him for the sixth floor. I actually thought that Leif was going to keep Joan's card and then after she dumped him, he would use her access to sabotage something and blame her for it. But seafood for Tobin works for me too.

What made Max an even bigger ass is that despite what he said about Joan and his coworkers, the real issue for him was Zoey not wanting to date him. And what made his behavior even worse is that Zoey specifically told him that with her dad's rapidly declining health, what she needed the most from him right now was his friendship and support, not a romantic relationship. He KNEW that and he was still a dick about it. I couldn't believe he accused her of being unsupportive when she was the one who told him he should take the job because it was a great opportunity. Now he's completely rewriting history to make himself the victim.

Simon was really rushing into spending time with Zoey. He and his fiancée just broke off their engagement a few days ago and he was already inviting Zoey over for dinner. I have no issue with them having a meal together but it just felt like he was trying to jump into that as quickly as possible without giving himself time to process what just happened.

I understand why Zoey wants to be a good friend and help him because he's clearly having a difficult time he's singing Mad World but I also get Mo's point of view because I've been in a similar position watching a friend bend over backwards and doing everything possible to accommodate the needs of someone who clearly was not in a place to be in a relationship.

It's so frustrating and there's a point when you've heard the same story ad nausem for sooooo long and youjust can't take it anymore, not just from the sheer repetitive nature but because you can see that your friend is just setting themselves up to be disappointed and hurt for the millionth time. It's like being friends with any kind of addiction - if you're going to keep hurting yourself, that's your choice but I can choose not to watch you do it over and over. And that's the position that Zoey realized she was in because Mo: Zoey: Simon :: Zoey: Simon: Simon's dad's death. It was really harsh for her to say that his grief was boring. As Simon said, there's no time table for grief. He's allowed to be sad and angry for however long. And his dad only died about a year ago. My dad died six years ago and my mom still isn't over it.

I was surprised that Leif had developed real feelings for Joan. I was even more surprised that instead of reporting their relationship to HR and getting Joan fired, he decided to move to the sixth floor with Max. I guess that's a different kind of revenge and he can always report her to HR or call a reporter about it later.

It was very sweet of Zoey, her brother, and Howie to set up all the lights in the greenhouse for the anniversary dinner. I thought Zoey's idea was going to be orderinig takeout from the restaurant to they could eat it at home but have Howie nearby if her dad needed anything. I legit cried at Perfect.

Howie is the best. I can't imagine the yelling and anger he has put up with from his client's families.

On 4/20/2020 at 11:10 AM, BabyVegas said:

What surprises me is that Lauren Graham has been on Broadway, so I don't get why she seems to be struggling.

She was on Broadway after she did Gilmore Girls so it was stunt casting and she wasn't very good.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Max Tells Zoey Off

Mo Saves Zoey and Simon's Relationship

Lauren Graham (Joan) and Renée Elise Goldsberry (Ava) sing “The Boy Is Mine”

 

[aradia22]

Not a bad first song choice to communicate the moment and they didn't sing it badly exactly but Max's and Simon's voices sounded very squeaky on "Here I Go Again." The original has backup singers and the singer's voice is more smoky and slightly more resonant. These two have thin, pop voices, at least in that part of their ranges.

I appreciate that part of Zoey's character is that she's socially inept. But I don't know how much I want to watch her flounder around making poor decisions... like immediately accepting the invitation to go over to Simon's apartment when he just broke off his engagement.

Leif has such a great voice. Obviously not straight though. I have no idea why they decided to go with this storyline of him romancing Joan. 

Simon doesn't need Zoey. He needs therapy.

Now you know who does have sexual tension? Ava and Joan.

Max had a fair point about no one from the 4th floor caring about his departure. HOWEVER, the way it was directed where he kept staring at Zoey made him feel vindictive and petty. She didn't owe you a relationship/reciprocated feelings, dude. 

Why would someone make a password protected vlog??? Does he treat it like a diary? Does he actually watch old videos of himself? That feels insane.

I appreciated Jane Levy getting some big dramatic acting scenes. I also appreciated Simon fairly calling Zoey out on her BS because that kind of behavior is glossed over in soaps but it is crazy and manipulative. 

Mo throwing Zoey and Simon a dance party felt like it was out of some terrible teen coming of age indie movie. Down to the way to the close-ups were filmed.

I feel like this was a necessary filler episode to progress all the storylines still in play. It didn't feel like it was spinning its wheels but it also wasn't as entertaining.

[aradia22]

Quote

I cannot believe Leif genuinely has feelings for Joan. It feels sudden for Leif to go all "I Put a Spell on You" to "Let's Stay Together". 

I agree. But if I step outside the actors' performances, then I can see how it makes sense. Leif was sold to us as this schemer but so far it's been a lot of posturing. We know he's a dork who, in all likelihood, is not any more socially adept than the other programmer characters. So I can see him trying to work an angle and then ending up catching feelings because he's not actually any kind of Casanova. 

Quote

Also, why are all these people fighting over google glass 7 years after it failed? 

Seriously. I'm just waiting for someone to tell them this is stupid idea.

Quote

Isn't it usually the case that your company owns any work you do for them?

My rationale was that the whole company owns the work but the rivalry between the 4th and 6th floor is just something they need to work out for themselves. Like, Max can't take his work to a different company but they can do what they want within the company. I agree that it's a stupid, messy storyline though.

Quote

Oh, I think Graham is consistently auto-tuned. Watching that, I thought "Renee-Elise Goldsberry is a professional singer and Lauren Graham is not."

I think this is a struggle with a show with non-diegetic music. When the characters aren't actually performing the songs (e.g. Max's flash mob), it's weird when the performers have differing abilities. Either everyone should sing really well or everyone should sing with the skill of an average person. If everyone is a great performer, it signals that these are really their heart songs. Like how in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, of course Rebecca sounds great in her head. If everyone is similarly mediocre, then it's a reminder that these are all normal people. This mix of talent/skill levels makes you unconsciously second guess people. Do they really mean that? Do they actually feel what they're feeling that strongly? Like, imagine that Max was played by someone else who was a worse singer/dancer. Unconsciously, when you compared Max to Simon, you would favor Simon because he seems to be more passionate about Zoey simply because of how well he performs his musical numbers in comparison. 

Quote

Really, I think he’s doing remarkably well. Losing a parent suddenly is traumatic. For all intents and purposes, Simon breaks down in private - people at work likely have no idea he’s grieving. He’s not sitting in the middle of the floor pouting (ahem, Leif) or crying. 

Yup. Also, without Zoey's meddling, Simon probably would have married Jessica. It feels like he's being really messy and making bad decisions but a huge part of why is because Zoey keeps involving herself in his life. Even if there were another female programmer on the fourth floor, I don't think Simon would have gotten into a flirtation with anyone else and called off the wedding.

Quote

The dancing with Mo was funny, but I really did not like the choreography when Simon sang Mad World. 

I don't know how else to put it... there were times I thought "Simon is making love to his kitchen." I will never get that SYTYCD choreography.

Quote

Max was just being a dick - both groups should've been allowed Max's base code, then compete from there.

This is actually a great point. If Ava is confident in her team, it should be a level playing field.

Quote

Zoey is a failed superhero. She tries to use her superpower for good, but she fails most of the time.

Agreed. I think this is fine for season 1 but they eventually have to settle. Is she going to learn how to wield her superpower and is this going to be one of these quasi-religious shows where she goes around helping people? Or is it a more complicated superpower she uses to sort out her own life... more in the Being Erica lane? Path 2 doesn't make her a supervillain but it's a different kind of storytelling. Right now I think the writers are trying to do both and it's muddying both storylines. 

Quote

I like Mo, but he's really just a cliche. There's not much new you can do with the sassy Black bestie stock character.

I'm conflicted. Alex Newell is so great. But yeah, this character doesn't have a ton of depth. Mo is entertaining as hell but even with a boyfriend and interests outside of Zoey, it still feels like a stereotype/trope. If this show gets another season, I hope they're more comfortable stepping away from Zoey. We see so much of this world through her eyes. As long as there aren't heart songs happening, I think it's fine to have more scenes she isn't present for. Crazy Ex-Girlfriend eventually broke out of this and just had characters sing when Rebecca wasn't present.

[bros402]

1 hour ago, aradia22 said:

Agreed. I think this is fine for season 1 but they eventually have to settle. Is she going to learn how to wield her superpower and is this going to be one of these quasi-religious shows where she goes around helping people? Or is it a more complicated superpower she uses to sort out her own life... more in the Being Erica lane? Path 2 doesn't make her a supervillain but it's a different kind of storytelling. Right now I think the writers are trying to do both and it's muddying both storylines. 

holy crap a Being Erica reference - I didn't think anyone else watched that show. I know it had like 3 or 4 seasons, but I haven't seen anyone reference it in years.

I'd be fine with either her helping others with her power, or improving herself with it. Both would be good, but I think helping others would have wider appeal, so they'd probably go for that, with occasional episodes of self improvement heartsongs.

[aradia22]

@bros402 I feel like all I do is stubbornly reference Being Erica even though most people have never heard of it. It's finally on streaming (Hulu AND Amazon Prime) but I haven't heard of a resurgence in interest. There seem to be a fair number of female protagonist shows that use this kind of a magical/sci-fi/fantasy premise to get you to care about the emotional lives of the characters... and then they're rather shaky when it comes to the worldbuilding and explaining the magical premise. Being Erica held out for a while (because they also managed to not get cancelled like most of these shows do) but I do think the last season was sloppy. Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist gives me a less well thought out vibe. I think they are answering questions as they go along but the concept of the heart songs and why Zoey has been given these powers hasn't developed that much since the pilot. I'm not sure Zoey would be a good show to do one of the quasi-religious/afterlife/master plan of the universe/helping others plots because it's on shaky ground when we step outside of the main cast. The show would have to abandon a lot of its current plotlines and downplay some aspects of her life so she could focus on other people. My vote would be to cut work or just have her decide on a love interest (or being single) so that would stop being a distraction.

[bros402]

20 hours ago, aradia22 said:

@bros402 I feel like all I do is stubbornly reference Being Erica even though most people have never heard of it. It's finally on streaming (Hulu AND Amazon Prime) but I haven't heard of a resurgence in interest. There seem to be a fair number of female protagonist shows that use this kind of a magical/sci-fi/fantasy premise to get you to care about the emotional lives of the characters... and then they're rather shaky when it comes to the worldbuilding and explaining the magical premise. Being Erica held out for a while (because they also managed to not get cancelled like most of these shows do) but I do think the last season was sloppy. Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist gives me a less well thought out vibe. I think they are answering questions as they go along but the concept of the heart songs and why Zoey has been given these powers hasn't developed that much since the pilot. I'm not sure Zoey would be a good show to do one of the quasi-religious/afterlife/master plan of the universe/helping others plots because it's on shaky ground when we step outside of the main cast. The show would have to abandon a lot of its current plotlines and downplay some aspects of her life so she could focus on other people. My vote would be to cut work or just have her decide on a love interest (or being single) so that would stop being a distraction.

I remember when ABC was thinking about doing an American version of Bering Erica, they passed on the script like 2 seasons straight.

The last season of Being Erica was a bit sloppy, but it was still enjoyable.

I also think we have talked about Being Erica before, because your username sounds very familiar.

I think if they kept "helping others out" plot to people directly in her orbit - coworkers, family, friends, that could be good, then we'd have a few episodes each season to build on characters.

I would rather have them go for self improvement/helping people close to her than a "Let's help out everyone" kind of show.

[aradia22]

Quote

I think if they kept "helping others out" plot to people directly in her orbit - coworkers, family, friends, that could be good, then we'd have a few episodes each season to build on characters.

I would rather have them go for self improvement/helping people close to her than a "Let's help out everyone" kind of show.

I'm definitely with you on that. The agoraphobic woman in the apartment downstairs is technically in her orbit but it feels more like it belongs to the "let's help out everyone" show and I don't think they handled it that well. And we've never seen her again (though I haven't finished the season yet). I need them to explain why this somewhat socially inept person who is bad at reading other people in general is the one who has these powers.

Like, the show would be very different if Mo could hear heartsongs. Mo is already empathetic. Mo likes butting into people's lives and giving advice. Mo would appreciate the musical references and performances. At the other extreme, Joan could have been given these powers to force her to care about other people and crack the shell that was keeping her in a loveless marriage and not pursuing what will actually make her happy. 

But giving the powers to Zoey confuses me at this point. Zoey does care about people but she doesn't feel things that deeply, except about her dad. She "helps" in very small ways. She's not a therapist. She doesn't have a particular gift for helping people through their issues. I can't think of a better comparison but there's a particular kind of show like That's So Raven. Maybe that's where this is headed. Everyone knows about Zoey's powers and accepts her influence in their lives? 

[possibilities]

Maybe the idea is not that it makes sense that a person like Zoey has these powers, but more something like: How would it play out if someone like her had these powers?

The randomness of it, and how odd it is that it's her, instead of someone more obviously suited or in need of it, is part of the premise, I think. Kind of a fish out of water kind of theme-- Zoey doesn't make sense in this role. That's why it's so bumpy and weird.

[aradia22]

I think my issue is that right now I don't see where this narrative is going. I don't think they're successfully exploring what it means for someone like Zoey to have these powers. They're just treating her like a kind of everywoman character. They fully made a mess by going too extreme with Temperance Brennan on Bones but I think if Zoey were written more like that, we might have a clearer sense of things. So far Zoey is too normal to push the writers to say something. I think she's coming across as selfish when I do think the groundwork is there to show her as socially inept. She doesn't know how to deal with Simon. She doesn't know how to process her feelings. 

I would contrast this with George on Dead Like Me who wasn't the biggest mess but was somewhat socially closed off and really opened up throughout the show. Kevin (Probably) Saves the World had a bumbling character with a heart of gold who needed redemption for his past and believably had the best of intentions in the present. 

[possibilities]

I agree that they aren't really doing anything other than just showing her bumbling around. I haven't thought they had a deeper statement to make about the meaning of her powers, it's just a device they're using. For me, the show is more about the family stuff, and Zoey's powers aren't meant to say anything about the nature of the universe or deeper meaning, it's just a convenient way to push the plot along.

Maybe they have a bigger idea, but I don't think they have to, and if they do, like you I don't really know what it is.

[bros402]

Maybe if we get a second season, it'll come back slightly retooled - maybe Zoey will be more withdrawn in the wake of her father's death, and the heartsongs will help her open up? 

She is definitely awkward, but a normal level of socially awkward/anxious/avoidant.

[Trini]

So, I'm 10 minutes in...

Zoey! Noooooo! Too soon! Do not go out with him!!

----

So I'm seeing a similarity between this Crazy Ex-Girlfriend; leading lady routinely acts super weird, but both love interests fall for her anyway. Although here, Zoey gets called out on her odd behavior more.

Speaking of the triangle; for me, Max went down a notch and Simon up a notch in this episode. However, at this point, I don't want her with either. Max needs to get over himself, and Simon needs to be not in a (romantic) relationship for a while.

Just me, or are Leif's pants getting tighter each episode? Anyway, Leif actually being in love with Joan is a twist, I guess. I appreciate the actor getting to sing love songs, but this whole subplot was unnecessary. (And iffy.) And now he's going to defect with Max? I imagine Tobin would follow too.

"The Boy is Mine" was kind of cringey because those type of 'dueling duets' work best when both singers are somewhat evenly matched, and ... that wasn't the case here.

Glad they're showing Zoey kind of working her way through her own grieving. But they're lucky I already like "I Love It" because Mo making them 'angry dance' was an odd choice to me.

The last song with Zoey's parents was so sweet!

[zoey1996]

On 5/13/2020 at 1:44 AM, bros402 said:

holy crap a Being Erica reference - I didn't think anyone else watched that show. I know it had like 3 or 4 seasons, but I haven't seen anyone reference it in years.
 

 

On 5/13/2020 at 5:09 AM, aradia22 said:

@bros402 I feel like all I do is stubbornly reference Being Erica even though most people have never heard of it. It's finally on streaming (Hulu AND Amazon Prime) but I haven't heard of a resurgence in interest. There seem to be a fair number of female protagonist shows that use this kind of a magical/sci-fi/fantasy premise to get you to care about the emotional lives of the characters... and then they're rather shaky when it comes to the worldbuilding and explaining the magical premise. Being Erica held out for a while (because they also managed to not get cancelled like most of these shows do) 

I loved Being Erica!  I'm in the US and had to get the DVDs from Canada!  One reason I started watching this show was because of the similarites between the two.

[bros402]

13 hours ago, zoey1996 said:

 

I loved Being Erica!  I'm in the US and had to get the DVDs from Canada!  One reason I started watching this show was because of the similarites between the two.

Woohoo! A third Being Erica fan!