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ElectricBoogaloo

S16.E21: Put on a Happy Face

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3 minutes ago, dmc said:

Not technically, he wasn't.  Teddy made the commitment to Owen and decided to break it.  She is 100% accountable.  This is not the dark ages, where people are bewitched into affairs by Satan.  Koracick has shady ethics but that has never been a secret, but he isn't in a relationship and cheated on no one.  

Apparently I haven't made myself clear, so I'm done commenting on Koracik and his poison penis.

 

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7 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Apparently I haven't made myself clear, so I'm done commenting on Koracik and his poison penis.

 

Apparently, it is not clear to you this is a discussion forum.  People comment and people respond and have discussions about the show.  You don't have to have to them, but why comment on a discussion forum.

 

I will try to remember your name and not respond to you in the future since you don't want to have discussions about the show.  However, I was unaware since this is a discussion forum.  

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, taanja said:

I like Deluca and Mere but I don't think it's her responsibility to get him help. She doesn't own him -- they aren't married -- they are just dating (sort of) it's up to his family to do something. He's got a sister right?

That's an interesting question. The two easiest answers in terms of responsibility are his sister because she knew that this could be coming, and Bailey who is his boss and a doctor and thus doubly responsible.

Beyond that, let's compare it to Richard, who spent the episode insisting that there was nothing wrong with him and he wanted to go home, but everyone refused to believe him and spent weeks doing tests trying to figure out what's wrong. They only let him leave the hospital when they were convinced that it was Alzheimer's and there was nothing that medicine could do for him. And even then Meredith and Deluca refused to give up until they had found a way to cure him.

Like Richard, Delua has a physical illness (assuming it's BPAD) and like Richard he is denying that there is anything wrong with him. Deluca doesn't have the number of family members that Richard has around (Catherine, Maggie, Jackson) but he does have relationships through his years at GSMH, especially with Meredith and to some extent Maggie.

A big difference of course is that Richard has been on the show for 16 seasons and Deluca has only been on for 6.

Do people want to help Richard because he has helped them?  In that case, Meredith owes Deluca a lot because not only was he her lover, he was willing to go to prison for her and then helped looked after her kids while she was in prison herself.

Deluca was working in a mania to try to cure Richard ("He's my friend") so I'd say Richard owes him back for that.

Owen and Amelia have both suffered mental health issues that needed other people to help them get out of, so they should be willing to pay it back.

Beyond that, I personally feel that it is everyone's responsibility to some extent to get Deluca help because they're doctors even if they aren't Good Samaritans. If someone refused treatment for a broken leg insisting that they are all right, I would hope that every one of those doctors would try to get him help. It shouldn't make a difference if it's a mental illness rather than a broken bone.

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I found it interesting in the last surgery how everyone in the operating room was suited up with gloves, hoods, and masks.  I think that must have been a nod to what hospitals are experiencing now with the pandemic.  

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I wonder if DeLuca will be away for several episodes getting help next season.  I always liked him and even if he doesn't come back, I hope he's referenced as being in much better shape.  

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7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:
8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Derek is dead so technically Amelia is no longer Meredith's sister-in-law. There's no reason to re-hash all the "are they or aren't they sisters" crap though. If they want to pretend they're all sisters then fine, just don't expect me to ever buy into it.

Mr. EB's father is dead, yet his mother still considers her dead husband's brother to be her brother in law (and vice versa), and the brother in law's kids are still her niece and nephew. You don't get kicked out of a family just because your spouse dies.

I must agree here. I am one of those who gets annoyed when Amelia and Maggie refer to each other as sisters, but I think this is entirely different. Amelia and Meredith's children are related. Also, death doesn't change history. I would find it odd not to consider my aunt's (who has sadly passed) family as my own family. I still consider them related to me. 

 

7 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

Another episode goes by and still Glasses lives. I will forever be disappointed any time that happens.

Same. 😢 Although, can someone explain to me why the baseball player's career is over? I know the bat lodged close to his heart, but his surgery seemed to go well. Did I miss something?

 

I have never loved Richard more than when he told Catherine to GTFO. I CACKLED like an old witch! She totally deserves it. Once she bought Richard's hospital and closed it, she lost the chance to be redeemable. It's a shame because I do like Debbie Allen.

As much as I hate Owen, my heart kinda twitched watching him listen to that voicemail. That was actually sad to witness. Teddy is fucking heinous. Also, yes, I know Koracick isn't innocent here, either, but to hear her tell him that "this is goodbye" is just so fucked up! Owen! Tom! You can both do better! 

I adored Amelia's storyline. Maybe I was just tired, but I thought her asking why the first woman ever to get pregnant allowed another woman to do the same was hilarious! Hee! Then, I loved Bailey sticking with her and getting in the bed with her. Finally, Amelia realizing that Bailey miscarried her own child and apologizing for making her stay was such a human moment. In fact, that's what I liked about Amelia's entire storyline; everyone acted like real human beings with genuine emotion. Character came before plot, which is what this show needs.

 

10 hours ago, readster said:

So, Richard's replacement not being figured out until later, made plenty of sense. However, say this was in a few years. That be one of the first things noticed, but like I said earlier, when replacements start decaying. The person is having problems walking and standing, and yet this wasn't happening at all. Not until the fact he felt numb all over and yet was in pain if anyone squeezed his limbs. Yet again, if it was record that Richard had the replacement that would come up much, much sooner. Once Deluca made the diagnosis, everyone else was: "Aha!" When really it should have been: "Wait! Richard had a replacement three years ago." 

Thank you! That's exactly it! It's frustrating because this is writing 101. There's no payoff for the audience if we didn't know that Richard had hip replacement surgery! I actually said aloud, "Richard had a hip replacement three years ago?!" Meanwhile, the characters are acting like, "Of course!" WTF? Yeah, I'm glad Richard's better, but putting clues along the way is what a good writer does.

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5 hours ago, Court said:

Am I the only one that was waiting on for them to say the baby's name is Derek? They didn't say the name but I was 100% sure they were going to say Derek.

Baby Bailey is also named Derek, and Amelia's 1st baby was named after Derek's middle name. I doubted they would do that. Also Krista confirmed it would not be Derek. It was a conversation in the next episode that was going to air where Amelia vetos the name because she doesn't want to cry every time she sees the baby. 

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6 hours ago, funnygirl said:

MerDer's son is named Derek. Actually named after Derek AND Bailey. 

Derek Bailey Shepherd, but they call him Bailey. 

The showrunner had said in a post-episode interview that there was a storyline in episode 22 about Link and Amelia naming the baby, but because they shut down, we'll have to wait til next season. 

 

1 hour ago, catspjs said:

Baby Bailey is also named Derek, and Amelia's 1st baby was named after Derek's middle name. I doubted they would do that. Also Krista confirmed it would not be Derek. It was a conversation in the next episode that was going to air where Amelia vetos the name because she doesn't want to cry every time she sees the baby. 

I forgot that Bailey  was also named after Derek.

 

Hmm, what was their Dad's name?

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Owen/Teddy/Tom Ugh. I don't know why they had to add that swerve of her accidentally sending her sex noises on the phone. I can't believe they made her that stupid/careless/selfish. She went on and on and on how much she wanted Owen that she left Tom only to have a side sex with Tom. It seems like she's never satisfied with the person she is with and always wanting someone else. She's not "open" to more than one relationship she's just in a constant state of being disatisfied with what she has, like a wandering eye syndrome. I bet the moment she goes back to Tom she'll look back at Owen. And damn the show for making me feel sorry for Owen because irony aside (his own relationship history) he didn't deserve it that way. Teddy was his friend before lover and now I don't think he can trust her again especially she was going to go through with the wedding and act like nothing was going on. They're making his character sympathetic by shredding Teddy's character.

The only scenes that took the sour edge of this episode is the resting face patient and Amelia delivering the baby. 

I wonder, how long was the mental deterioration? Was everything since season premier completely blanked out? Will he remember anything during that time? I'm not saying he should immediately reconcile with Katherine but he seems very bitter as if no time has passed since being fired.

Nice touch for Bailey to be there for Amelia's delivery just as George was there for her own.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Court said:

 

I forgot that Bailey  was also named after Derek.

 

Hmm, what was their Dad's name?

I don't think it has been mentioned. But it seems the fandom thinks it was Christopher, based on the facts that is was Derek's middle name

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10 hours ago, funnygirl said:

Good analysis, that hadn't dawned on me.

Probably because Claire Danes' performance was nuanced and award-winning and Mr. Temper Tantrums' isn't. At all.  YMMV

I've been binge-watching Homeland, and whilst I agree that Claire Danes was excellent, people in the forum complain about her cry face, and that she demands that people help her.

8 hours ago, dmc said:

Not technically, he wasn't.  Teddy made the commitment to Owen and decided to break it.  She is 100% accountable.  This is not the dark ages, where people are bewitched into affairs by Satan.  Koracick has shady ethics but that has never been a secret, but he isn't in a relationship and cheated on no one.  

That's true, but he knew what he was doing, told her he wasn't a nice guy, and continued to have sex with her, when he could have had some ethics and avoided doing that. He is accountable for his own actions, she didn't bewitch him either.

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5 hours ago, Anela said:

That's true, but he knew what he was doing, told her he wasn't a nice guy, and continued to have sex with her, when he could have had some ethics and avoided doing that. He is accountable for his own actions, she didn't bewitch him either.

The real problem is given Tom's history and he what lead to his own marriage falling apart. Somehow saving his non-lookalike son made him think that everything between him and Teddy could work. What would keep her from finding some small thing that would make her leave Tom for someone else. Hell, I could see if Tom's ex-wife came by and went: "Ok, I lied, he is your son, I found out after I left you I was pregnant." With Teddy going: "Oh no, he'll leave me to be with his Unknown son." Or some crap like that. Like everyone has started, no one knows that Alison is named after her dead lesbian lover. Who was the girlfriend of her former best friend who they were cheating on behind her back. 

The one who "called Teddy" and not anyone else when she died in 9/11. Tom and Own will be both like: "What?"

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I think Teddie remains convinced Owen will leave her.    Koracick is a “safe” backup because he will always take her back.   So every time she gets insecure, eg when the baby might be Owen’s or the wedding she has dreamed of is so damned close but she is afraid something will go wrong , she turns to the man she knows won’t reject her.  
 

Also, I think that although Owen now loves her, Teddie knows two things.   1) He doesn’t really know her.   For example, the wedding planning with his mom.  He talks about love, but he doesn’t understand her.   Tom does.   2) He has disappointed her so often, she may not really believe it will last.   

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9 hours ago, Anela said:

I've been binge-watching Homeland, and whilst I agree that Claire Danes was excellent, people in the forum complain about her cry face, and that she demands that people help her.

That's true, but he knew what he was doing, told her he wasn't a nice guy, and continued to have sex with her, when he could have had some ethics and avoided doing that. He is accountable for his own actions, she didn't bewitch him either.

Agreed, he knew what he was doing. He’s an unethical person, she’s the cheater.  Apparently cheating is her pattern.  But I hate the narrative that people cannot control their actions because someone is hitting on them.  Chances are if she’s like this with commitments, she may have cheated with someone else.  His actions didn’t determine hers 

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To me, the most insane thing about Richard's story is that he could even walk.

Considering the amount of disgusting goop they pulled out of his hip during surgery, he should've been in a wheelchair.

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12 hours ago, redfish said:

I wonder, how long was the mental deterioration? Was everything since season premier completely blanked out? Will he remember anything during that time? I'm not saying he should immediately reconcile with Katherine but he seems very bitter as if no time has passed since being fired.

I think that they were implying that the mental deterioration started after Catherine bought the hospital that Richard was working at and then sold. I assume because he did mention that as one of the reasons why he was kicking Catherine out of his hospital room. So, although he's been slowly poisoned for at least a few months (as I assume that it didn't start as SOON as he got the hip replacement years ago, although I don't know how cobalt poisoning works), but it's only directly affected his health in this second half of the season. 

As for the Teddy situation, she's more at fault for what's going on, but Tom has some responsibility here as well. He is the one who keeps actively pursuing Teddy who is in a relationship. Even if he doesn't have any control over what Teddy chooses to do, he still is at fault for wanting her to cheat on Owen in the first place. He has had ZERO issues with Teddy cheating on Owen, and that's not a good look for him. 

Which is a goddamn shame because I want to love Tom again like I did, but they've really done a disservice to his character...as well as Teddy.

It's like how Teddy is partially responsible in her role with the Alison/Claire stuff. She wasn't the one cheating on her significant other, but she was the mistress in that scenario, and also seemingly fine with it. She's awful for what she did back then, and so is Tom for this present day situation. 

So, in this scenario, Teddy's the most at fault, but Tom is also just below her because he was 100% aware of her relationship status and he's the one who has needlessly gone after her without a care about Owen's feelings. 

And Teddy/Tom honestly may be forever tainted by this dumbass storyline. Instead of giving Tom another storyline, they gave him this. And Teddy looks like a shitty human being who I could never really like again. Cheating storylines aren't great. Cheating storylines where the person cheating is doing it for MONTHS is a whole other level of disgusting. A one time cheating situation? Still awful, but potentially salvageable for the cheater. An ongoing affair? Nope, it crosses a whole lot of lines that I honestly wouldn't be able to forgive. 

And it feels worse because we've been watching it go on pretty much all season (Tom pursuing Teddy throughout the entire first half, until she finally gives in). 

I just don't see how they can save Teddy and Tom's characters from this storyline, I really can't. 

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14 hours ago, catspjs said:

I don't think it has been mentioned. But it seems the fandom thinks it was Christopher, based on the facts that is was Derek's middle name

Amelia referred to her son as Christopher when talking to Owen about him. Back in 14, when they were dealing with Betty. She said it was the first time she'd said his name.

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4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

As for the Teddy situation, she's more at fault for what's going on, but Tom has some responsibility here as well. He is the one who keeps actively pursuing Teddy who is in a relationship. Even if he doesn't have any control over what Teddy chooses to do, he still is at fault for wanting her to cheat on Owen in the first place. He has had ZERO issues with Teddy cheating on Owen, and that's not a good look for him. 

Which is a goddamn shame because I want to love Tom again like I did, but they've really done a disservice to his character...as well as Teddy.

It's like how Teddy is partially responsible in her role with the Alison/Claire stuff. She wasn't the one cheating on her significant other, but she was the mistress in that scenario, and also seemingly fine with it. She's awful for what she did back then, and so is Tom for this present day situation. 

So, in this scenario, Teddy's the most at fault, but Tom is also just below her because he was 100% aware of her relationship status and he's the one who has needlessly gone after her without a care about Owen's feelings. 

And Teddy/Tom honestly may be forever tainted by this dumbass storyline. Instead of giving Tom another storyline, they gave him this. And Teddy looks like a shitty human being who I could never really like again. Cheating storylines aren't great. Cheating storylines where the person cheating is doing it for MONTHS is a whole other level of disgusting. A one time cheating situation? Still awful, but potentially salvageable for the cheater. An ongoing affair? Nope, it crosses a whole lot of lines that I honestly wouldn't be able to forgive. 

And it feels worse because we've been watching it go on pretty much all season (Tom pursuing Teddy throughout the entire first half, until she finally gives in). 

I just don't see how they can save Teddy and Tom's characters from this storyline, I really can't. 

That's the problem they really can't go back. Even if Tom's ex showing up with her lookalke son who is "not" Tom's was to have him finally make peace with their son's death. It just doesn't work. Tom also knew about the baby being Owen's, and the fact that Teddy was being a chicken shit to even tell Owen for months. Then you add in this entire 9/11 crap and now Teddy and Tom are suppose to be flipped. So, what? Tom is Teddy's one true love like what was going on with Allison and Claire? It doesn't work at all. Even if they did have plans according to Krista about the truth of that relationship finally coming to both Owen and Tom's ears. It would have painted her worst and also would leave Owen going: "You named our daughter after your dead lover?" "Fuck you, bitch!"

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On 4/10/2020 at 7:20 PM, Gloriosa said:

I found it interesting in the last surgery how everyone in the operating room was suited up with gloves, hoods, and masks.  I think that must have been a nod to what hospitals are experiencing now with the pandemic.  

I think that it was because the cobalt that they were removing was dangerous, not as a covid nod. 

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11 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

My Dvr cut off when teddy was walking into the party. What did I miss? 

Owen's mom was taking down the decorations and said something comforting to Teddy about doing it another day or something like that, and Teddy was all "huh?" and then his mom said that Owen "was called into surgery, didn't he call you?" No, no he did not. And Teddy had an "uh oh" look on her face.

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9 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Amelia referred to her son as Christopher when talking to Owen about him. Back in 14, when they were dealing with Betty. She said it was the first time she'd said his name.

I know it was her son's name. I watched private Practice. This was in a response to another commenter asking what the Shepherd siblings' dad name was. 

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I do have a bit of trouble about Richard's reaction to Catherine's presence only because it seems so inconsistent. When he was hallucinating her, all was lovey dovey, no questions asked and no lingering resentment. So it would seem those were his true feelings for her. However inconsistent, I wanted to get up and cheer when he kicked her out of there!

Teddi can take a flying leap. What an alley cat. "This is goodbye." I can hardly wait for Owen to show her the door and I hope she never shows her face on Grey's forever afterward.

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On 4/10/2020 at 2:07 PM, Ohwell said:

I never liked Koracik anyway, bragging about all the women he's banged.  If anything, he needs to be tested for STDs. 

So the assumption is that if someone has had sex with multiple partners, he or she must have STDs? That seems slut shamey to me. 

But for the record, some people know how to practice safe sex.

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5 hours ago, renatae said:

Teddi can take a flying leap. What an alley cat. "This is goodbye." I can hardly wait for Owen to show her the door and I hope she never shows her face on Grey's forever afterward.

This is goodbye, except for all the times we will have to see each other because we work together and isn't he kind of her boss*? (And Owen's?) Unless one of them is leaving, then no, this ain't "goodbye." 

*still not super clear on what his job actually is.

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It's hard to know what Koracek is in charge of -- Grey Sloan or all the Avery Hospitals.

I think he can be redeemed because we know that there has been tragedy in his life to explain why he holds on so tightly to Teddy and we've seen him be very sensitive to a sad woman like April of Bailey when she lost her baby. Plus he wasn't in another relationship at the time.

I think Teddy is irredeemable though: as well as cheating on Owen right before their wedding, she now has an established history of being okay with cheating as long as she's not the one being cheated on. She also has a history of being mean to others for things not as bad as what she does. (Remember how nasty she was about Tumor Amelia not supporting Owen enough when his sister was getting surgery?)

Unfortunately in her interviews Krista seems to really want to explore Teddy's mindset and things there is lots to mine there. I'm afraid she's going to try to redeem Teddy next season.

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There seems to be a connection between Catherine and Tom that I may have missed.  During their one scene, she called him Tommy and, I think, patted his shoulder or back.  Not in a sexual way, but as someone who has known him a long time.  

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Teddy can go to hell. There is no redemption for her. She's engaged to Owen and wearing his mother's ring. They're raising two kids together. And she does this. Even on her wedding day. And what's even more infuriating is that she has the gall to to get ready to get married like nothing happened. She was actually going to marry Owen hiding this truth from him. I feel crushed for Owen that he had to find out via a sex dial. That's a groom-to-be's worst nightmare. And all this because of an unclear hypothetical, in which Teddy couldn't act like a damn adult and speak to Owen about. Owen didn't deserve that. He worked on himself in therapy to understand why he didn't put Teddy first. He listed his original house to appease Teddy so she wouldn't obsessing that he got it with Amelia. Ughh.  Teddy needs to give back his mother's ring and just leave.

Korasick can take a hike too. He said 3 episodes ago that he didn't want to be that guy and that Teddy should marry Owen. And now it's "Let's leave together because you're making a mistake." And even before then, he knew Teddy and Owen were engaged, and didn't decide to stop Teddy from throwing herself at him when she was scared. What a snake.

I hate that Linc had to miss the birth of his first child because, once again in the Grey's universe, he's the best and only available orthopedic surgeon in the entire hospital capable of removing a cobalt implant. The birth of your first child is a once in a lifetime thing. I would have told Bailey to page someone else because I have to be here.

And bravo to Richard to telling Catherine off!!! She deserved it. I was worried that once again, another medical emergency would wind up forcing them back together. Catherine was all worried now about Richard, and acting like her buying his hospital to humiliate him didn't happen. I'm glad Richard was able to remember and shut her down in her tracks.

I do hope they decide to shoot the remaining 4 episodes when they're able to start the new season and just add them to the start of the season, similar to Season 2. I'd like to see Owen tell Teddy off and ask for the ring back.

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On 4/11/2020 at 8:14 AM, NoReally said:

To me, the most insane thing about Richard's story is that he could even walk.

Considering the amount of disgusting goop they pulled out of his hip during surgery, he should've been in a wheelchair.

THIS. Apparently he had enough bone left to accept a new implant, but with all the rotting tissue they removed, I wondered how he could possibly have enough muscle tissue left.

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On 4/11/2020 at 10:14 AM, NoReally said:

To me, the most insane thing about Richard's story is that he could even walk.

Considering the amount of disgusting goop they pulled out of his hip during surgery, he should've been in a wheelchair.

And not only was he able to walk, he wasn't even limping. He never talked about having any leg pain. The only physical symptom was his hand shaking.

With the shape his muscle tissue was in due to that implant, he should have been in constant pain.

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17 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:
On 4/10/2020 at 5:07 PM, Ohwell said:

I never liked Koracik anyway, bragging about all the women he's banged.  If anything, he needs to be tested for STDs. 

So the assumption is that if someone has had sex with multiple partners, he or she must have STDs? That seems slut shamey to me. 

But for the record, some people know how to practice safe sex.

Thank you. I don't care if you have 1,000 sexual partners as long as you're practicing safe sex. High number of partners =/= must have an STD.

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14 hours ago, schnauzergirl said:

There seems to be a connection between Catherine and Tom that I may have missed.  During their one scene, she called him Tommy and, I think, patted his shoulder or back.  Not in a sexual way, but as someone who has known him a long time.  

I forget the exact back story but they have known each other for a long time, and in a sexual way as well.

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On 4/10/2020 at 2:53 PM, Court said:

Am I the only one that was waiting on for them to say the baby's name is Derek?

I need a transcript of this episode because I could have sworn that when Linc walked into the room and Bailey handed him the baby that she said, "meet Atticus Lincoln Sheppard".  Cuz I thought Atticus was a stupid name.  Am I the only one that heard that?  

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17 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

I need a transcript of this episode because I could have sworn that when Linc walked into the room and Bailey handed him the baby that she said, "meet Atticus Lincoln Sheppard".  Cuz I thought Atticus was a stupid name.  Am I the only one that heard that?  

Unless I'm mistaken, Atticus is Linc's first name (so not sure they would name the baby the same?).

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1 minute ago, Sarnia said:

Unless I'm mistaken, Atticus is Linc's first name (so not sure they would name the baby the same?).

Just googled it, and you're right, his name is Atticus Lincoln, so maybe that's what Bailey said and I assumed that was the baby's name.  

Thanks for that.  

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25 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

Just googled it, and you're right, his name is Atticus Lincoln, so maybe that's what Bailey said and I assumed that was the baby's name.  

Thanks for that.  

I think she said "Atticus Lincoln, come meet your son." Or something like that.

(And yes, unless your last name is Finch and you're a lawyer in 1930s Alabama, Atticus is a dumb name. 😉 )

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I kind of like it, but since Link doesn’t actually go by Atticus, I would imagine he’s not crazy about it, thus not likely to name his son that.

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On 4/10/2020 at 3:58 PM, dmc said:

Koracick is single so he isn't cheating on anyone.  Teddy made the commitment, she is the cheater.  The person with the obligation is the person in the relationship.  He technically owes Owen nothing here.  

I completely agree with this. ^^^^ Teddy is the one in the relationship -- she is the one cheating. Period.

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11 minutes ago, taanja said:

I completely agree with this. ^^^^ Teddy is the one in the relationship -- she is the one cheating. Period.

Though Tom also bores some of it. He's not blameless. He actually told Teddy 3 episodes prior that he didn't want to be that guy, considering his marriage blew up because his wife was having affair with another guy. He wound up being that guy anyway, which is a homewrecker. He could have stopped Teddy in her tracks and let her know she needs to talk to Owen. "Only come to him if you and Owen are through and you've ended the engagement." But of course, the writers can't have these characters make mature decisions.

Teddy is 100% at fault for going back to Tom. And maybe one time is a mistake. But to keep doing it, while making your fiancé believe he's living the dream that with the woman and family he wants, is unforgivable. She graduated from being a homewrecker to having a pre-marriage affair.

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If you help someone commit a crime, you're guilty of aiding and abetting. Which Koracik definitely was.

He said that he didn't want to be "that guy" and technically he isn't since Teddy isn't married yet but I wonder if he would have stopped sleeping with her once she was.

Poor Owen. He's tied to Teddy forever through Alison.

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Tom is irrelevant. Even if he gyrated naked in Teddy’s lap. It’s up to her to say no.

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On 4/12/2020 at 4:47 AM, renatae said:

I do have a bit of trouble about Richard's reaction to Catherine's presence only because it seems so inconsistent. When he was hallucinating her, all was lovey dovey, no questions asked and no lingering resentment. So it would seem those were his true feelings for her. However inconsistent, I wanted to get up and cheer when he kicked her out of there!

In his hallucination, didn't she show up and apologize and say she wanted him back? If he doesn't remember that hallucination, it makes sense that he would be mad. But if she apologized for real, it seems like it would be consistent for him to forgive her.

Or you could argue that hallucinating her just shows he was messed up and you can't trust what he was seeing.

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On 4/12/2020 at 5:36 PM, schnauzergirl said:

There seems to be a connection between Catherine and Tom that I may have missed.  During their one scene, she called him Tommy and, I think, patted his shoulder or back.  Not in a sexual way, but as someone who has known him a long time.  

 

17 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

I forget the exact back story but they have known each other for a long time, and in a sexual way as well.

From S14.E4:
Koracick: Catherine Avery? 
Catherine: Thomas Koracick?
Koracick: How is it that I'm aging and you aren't? 
Catherine: Oh, shut up. Uh, you've met my husband, Richard Webber. And this my son, Jackson. 
Koracick: Oh! How old is he?
Catherine: Why? 
Koracick: I want to make sure he's not mine. 
Catherine: You are just awful. 
Richard: Anything you want to tell me?
Catherine: I prefer to let you wonder, keep the mystery alive.
[...]
Catherine: I said family supper.
Richard: And Maggie's not family?
Catherine: Oh, please. I didn't mean that. It's just, well, you could've at least have called.
Richard: Well, I like to keep a sense of mystery.
Catherine: Oh, please. Are we talking about Thomas Koracick now?
Richard: Oh, we don't have to talk about anything.
[...]
Catherine: I've been on this planet for six decades. There have been penises in my life that are not attached to you so stop trying to change the subject.

From S15.E7:
Koracik: Damn.
Meredith: Right?
Koracik: No, I mean, she looks good. She always looked fantastic, but-
Meredith: Okay, what is it with you two? Because you realize that Richard and I are like family, so if there's something going on-
Koracik: I'm not one to kiss and tell.
Meredith: That's literally all you ever do.
Koracik: Oh, you want details. 
Meredith: No, I don't. 
Koracik: She woke me up. I had a kid, a son, and, uh, then I didn't. I sleep-walked through years of my life, and Catherine reminded me that I was alive.

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16 hours ago, statsgirl said:

If you help someone commit a crime, you're guilty of aiding and abetting. Which Koracik definitely was.

He said that he didn't want to be "that guy" and technically he isn't since Teddy isn't married yet but I wonder if he would have stopped sleeping with her once she was.

Poor Owen. He's tied to Teddy forever through Alison.

Cheating is not a crime. 

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On 4/13/2020 at 11:40 PM, marykat71702 said:

Did we know that Richard had a hip implant? I don't recall such a storyline...

The only thing I can recall is that Richard did travel to Boston with Catherine a few seasons ago for the Harper Avery Award Ceremony, but there was never any mention of him needing a hip replacement at that time. There were never any storylines about him having any hip trouble.

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On 4/14/2020 at 10:48 AM, taanja said:

Cheating is not a crime. 

 

it might not be a crime. but it doesn't absolve the other person from being a cheater. 
it takes two to tango and two to cheat. Tom knew, tom pushed, and tom encouraged. his hands are just as dirty as Teddy's are.

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3 hours ago, Daisy said:

 

it might not be a crime. but it doesn't absolve the other person from being a cheater. 
it takes two to tango and two to cheat. Tom knew, tom pushed, and tom encouraged. his hands are just as dirty as Teddy's are.

True, but Tom never came to Teddie.  She always came to him.   Teddie came to his apartment.  Teddie came to his office.    The last time, Tom probably thought she’d finally chosen him but she waited until they were done to tell him she just used him and was still marrying Owen.   She hurt him too,  not as much as she hurt Owen, but she hurt him.  
 

During the snowball horseplay, Tom told her to go back to Owen and be happy.   He told her that again in another episode.  I’m not trying to excuse Tom.  He knew she was engaged, and owns some blame.  But Teddie initiated the cheating by going to his apartment and office, knowing he was in love with her.  She knew he would give her what she wanted and used him for solace when she was upset.  

Edited by DEL901
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9 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

True, but Tom never came to Teddie.  She always came to him.   Teddie came to his apartment.  Teddie came to his office.    The last time, Tom probably thought she’d finally chosen him but she waited until they were done to tell him she just used him and was still marrying Owen.   She hurt him too,  not as much as she hurt Owen, but she hurt him.  
 

During the snowball horseplay, Tom told her to go back to Owen and be happy.   He told her that again in another episode.  I’m not trying to excuse Tom.  He knew she was engaged, and owns some blame.  But Teddie initiated the cheating by going to his apartment and office, knowing he was in love with her.  She knew he would give her what she wanted and used him for solace when she was upset.  

 

For me. (and maybe i'm being too black/white here., i can admit it). Yeah Teddy hurt Tom too by being a cheating cow - but Tom's knowingly sleeping with another man's fiance. So to me it doesn't matter that Teddy kept going to him.He knowingly chose to sleep with someone who was engaged to someone else. IN my books that makes him just as scuzzy as Teddy. I do respect though people's opinions that can split down the line. 

I will say this entire season's justification of how cheating is acceptable really  just... makes me groody and angry. I've been cheated on by someone i loved very much - quite frankly had they flat out told me they were interested in something else. i would have said fine. go ahead. be with them.  but they didn't and for months i wasted my time, and my emotions and everything else. and so to constantly have people on the show say "it's just about love, i love so and somore. or both the same... it just.. guh. 

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On 4/11/2020 at 8:54 AM, Lady Calypso said:

I just don't see how they can save Teddy and Tom's characters from this storyline, I really can't. 

Agreed. Start next season with Owen coming back from a 4 month sabbatical, vaccinating goats for the FFA or something. Teddy and Tom are gone and mentioned only in passing, to let us know that they died in a ferris wheel explosion at Shondaland.

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