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S02.E17: The Icewoman Cometh...

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I think David would be a good parent to Mark. They're both sensitive and sweet and David isn't mean and cynical. He left, that's shitty, but I don't think he's a shitty person. And I'd rather watch a show with David and Mark than this one. 

I've always hated how mean they were to Bev and they really ramped it up this time. Good bye show, you weren't that great to begin with but this sealed the deal.

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And they're talking about another season of this shit show?  Everyone shit on Bev, Bev was rude to Harris who wanted a hug (what grandmother ever does that?) and Darlene pressing the button to steal Bev's money before she revokes her Power of Attorney was played for laughs.

The only redeeming parts were the poker game and Dan/Becky suffering from loss of spouse bonding convo.  Even Mary was a little brat.  Go home with DJ who hardly gets used anyway and don't come back.

I called it about Louise already having a new beau on the road.  You're welcome.  Poor Dan.

Yes, Katey Sagal can really sing!  She was a professional singer before she made her debut into the world of acting.  I'm Team Katey and Team Louise.  Louise coming back into a third season will probably be the only reason for me to keep watching.

Darlene was awful and horrible.

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7 hours ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

I think David would be a good parent to Mark. They're both sensitive and sweet and David isn't mean and cynical. He left, that's shitty, but I don't think he's a shitty person. And I'd rather watch a show with David and Mark than this one. 

If this current version of Darlene was the one David had to live with I can't really blame him for leaving - except that he also left the kids.

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On 4/7/2020 at 8:09 PM, Keywestclubkid said:

Yes Darlene take away the money from your son. Fuck that he worked hard to get into the program. What a horrible horrible thing to do. The money wasn’t offered for tattoo school it was offered has a reward for his hard work. Why would she reward bad behavior and penalize her son who is actually applying himself and is trying. And wow for trying to blame bev for her shitting handing of the situation. You are the one that did it to your son who again she didn’t care about his feelings at all... What a Horrible parent I’m sorry ...

yes BEV bet on the smart horse that’s gonna get the fuck out of there ... how Darlene doesn’t see or get that is nuts ... we are gonna punish grandma because she didn't just give the money to Harris? so if she did give the money to Harris your wouldn't steal the 5k for him and she would have been happy fucking over her son?... this just reeks like she doesn't care about her son at all he is a after thought  ...... I dunno why her handling of this just pissed me the fuck off lol 

This show is full of hateful, spiteful, self pitying, nasty people. Yes, I do get a good laugh from time to time but....Darlene is just a horrible person. From asking Bev to give $5,000 to each of her kids, ignoring her siblings children to thinking about stealing money out of Bevs accounts with her power of atty. Don't get why that happened in the first place. Bev is nasty but not senile. Glad to see that Louise found someone else. Stay away from this loser family.

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14 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

This show is full of hateful, spiteful, self pitying, nasty people. Yes, I do get a good laugh from time to time but....Darlene is just a horrible person. From asking Bev to give $5,000 to each of her kids, ignoring her siblings children to thinking about stealing money out of Bevs accounts with her power of atty. Don't get why that happened in the first place. Bev is nasty but not senile. Glad to see that Louise found someone else. Stay away from this loser family.

This show has just made this family seem more desperate and mean then it was before... yes Roseanne ripped off the one company that  kept sending them stoves by mistake but it wasn't like she was actively calling lying and having them send the stoves.. What Darlene did trying to justify her wanting to fuck over her son and give her Daughter money that was never hers to begin with was stri8 up criminal .... this whole show just needs to be thrown away 

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The family meeting really annoyed me.  Darlene discussing which of her kids should get the money with Becky and DJ, whose kids were never considered as worthy of being given money.

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14 minutes ago, Bronzedog said:

The family meeting really annoyed me.  Darlene discussing which of her kids should get the money with Becky and DJ, whose kids were never considered as worthy of being given money.

That was the biggest issue. "Oh my kids are more important than my two nieces, especially with one about to go to Middle School." DJ should have brought up to how he is ignored all the time, while his wife is on active duty still. Maybe Bev would like her other great grand child to start having some fun at her age. It was so stupid. 

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9 minutes ago, Bronzedog said:

The family meeting really annoyed me.  Darlene discussing which of her kids should get the money with Becky and DJ, whose kids were never considered as worthy of being given money.

Why was Darlene discussing who would get the money in the first place? It was never offered to Harris is what is still confusing me. .. Yes the others should be more pissed because they weren't even thought of but its not like this family in this version of the show have ever cared about Bev or giving her a second thought.. even Dj's daughter said she would have written if she knew she was going to get money so it wasn't in the I love you grandma kind of way it was the damn i could have faked cared kinda thought ..... 

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Just because Bev was paying for Marks’ camp didn’t mean she needed to immediately fund the same amount to anyone else.  There would undoubtably be other opportunities come up later to fund a different persons’ need.
 

Darlene went from  being responsible with Bev’s money( as she should be) to wanting to steal it from her.  Bev didn’t tell her she couldn’t fund the lunch box, Bev refused to make the decision using the power of attorney as an out.  That was a falsehood.  Giving someone your power of attorney doesn’t negate a person being able to spend their own money- it just gives the other person the right to spend it too. It’s supposed to be for the owners’ benefit.  However sometimes you pick the wrong person to give your power of attorney to. 

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This is one of the few episodes I’ve seen, but Darlene is a real asshole.  I only enjoyed the Dan scenes.  I get they don’t like Bev, but they are downright cruel to the woman.  I don’t get it. I wish they gave DJ more to do.

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On 4/8/2020 at 5:45 AM, LekoBoy said:

Great-grandchildren.  Not including Jerry's and Andy's kids.

Who are Jerry and Andy? 

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22 minutes ago, DB in CMH said:

Who are Jerry and Andy? 

On the original show Roseanne and Dan had a baby named Jerry, he was the youngest and Jackie had a son named Andy.

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Wooow.  Just wow.  All of these writers need to be replaced.  If I was bev I would take my money and leave it all to charity.   The conners have spiraled into some really awful, trashy, rude people.  Remember when Becky brought home chip and chips parents would come over and the conners would, you know, try to act normal even though they didn’t like them?   Back then they didn’t just act like a bunch of rude assholes any time anyone came through the front door.   Jackie and Becky especially need to shut up, bev did finance their little stew shop thing.   Becky was an alcoholic turned single mom and bev bailed her out by financing the business.   Have they forgotten that?   Bev doesn’t owe Harris a damn thing, I wouldn’t give her a dime.  Why should they both get money just because mark earned a spot in the program?  Harris hasn’t done anything except act like a bitch and smoke pot since she came to Lanford.  It’s pretty funny that a bunch of blue collar people have not ever entertained vocational school or community college for Harris.   Nope it’s away school that you can’t afford or “tattoo school” lol. Harris is going to be living in a van down by the river unless bev finances this because time is running out for an 18 year old slacker who needed her grandpa who is supporting all of them to get her a job while he’s at it.  
If tattoo school is so important maybe Darlene should I get off her ass and go work somewhere instead of expecting  Bev to pay for it.  Dan did Louise a favor when he turned her down, could you imagine marrying into this family?

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On 4/7/2020 at 6:42 PM, MissLucas said:

Yes, it sucks that Bev did not give money to all her great-grandkids but why should she? She wanted to give it to Mark who worked hard in school and managed to stay in contact with her and that's perfectly fine. 

20 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Just because Bev was paying for Marks’ camp didn’t mean she needed to immediately fund the same amount to anyone else.  There would undoubtably be other opportunities come up later to fund a different persons’ need.

This whole plotline was confusing.  It seems like Bev was supposed to be the jerk here, but I don't see anything wrong with what she did.  She sort of played Darlene, but if Darlene had just let Mark take the money and not made a big deal of it, that wouldn't have happened.  She may well have done it because she liked Mark better than the rest of them, but first of all, them's the breaks if everyone else is going to be a grade-A asshole to her, and secondly it isn't like she cut him a check for $5,000 out of nowhere; she was going to pay his tuition for something he earned.

Also, who's to say that if she later learned that Harris needed tuition for tattoo school or beauty school or whatever else she might need money for, Bev wouldn't have paid for it?  But that bridge has probably been burned.  And it's not like she's required to give everyone money at the same time.  (Well, she's not required to give anyone any money ever.)  I mean, when my sister was buying her first house, my great-aunt gave her money to help with the down payment.  Years later, when I was in grad school, she basically said to me, I gave your sister this money, so I'm going to give you the same amount. 

On 4/8/2020 at 5:39 AM, Keywestclubkid said:

the whole stance of Mark has time .. he can do it later... its not his time.... if that were true why didn't Harris take advantages of these amazing opportunity sooner? why is her at what 18 NOW its to late and she needs ALL the help? the writers are just SHITTING on everyone in this family .... at this point if Mark left to go live with his dad that WOULD be a great thing for him cause staying around these people and their horrible decision making will just keep him chained to that house and town forever..... i know i keep harping on this but the really made Darlene a really shitty parent in one full sweep

I disagree that it's not Mark's time.  First of all, this opportunity exists now.  Secondly, it's not too early for him to start gaining skills and making connections that will help him get into college later, and may even help him earn a scholarship. 

3 hours ago, lexiexx said:

Harris is going to be living in a van down by the river

😄

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7 minutes ago, janie jones said:

I disagree that it's not Mark's time.  First of all, this opportunity exists now.  Secondly, it's not too early for him to start gaining skills and making connections that will help him get into college later, and may even help him earn a scholarship. 

😄

That was what i was thinking if he doesn't do it now when will he? I mean if it was to late for Harris at 18 in Darlene's mind when would it be marks time? the writers did a shitty job with that whole story line ... they just made Darlene not only a shit parent but willing to fuck over and steal from her own family in a way Roseanne would never have done .... In the original run of this show they all did a lot of questionable things but they never tried to fuck over and steal from their own .....

Edited by Keywestclubkid
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The thing too, is the reason Bev knew about Mark's need for money for the camp is because he was corresponding with her regularly.

Maybe if Harris was writing or calling her great-grandmother regularly, Bev would have heard about Harris's desire to go to tattoo school and would have offered to fund that too.

GG can't fund what she doesn't know about. The family, except Mark, was so awful to Bev they have no right expect anything from her. 

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Love the show even if they do questionable things/actions. It’s probably the writers who decided to make Bev the most hated relative in the family. But the way the conners act and how you guys put it “screw each other over” isn’t really all that weird or outrageous to me since I have relatives like that in my own family. Relatives who have fucked over and stolen from each other, who have done stuff in live that has derailed them.

So I guess I could say I disagree with you guys on how the conners actions are rude and being assholes, but hell if live screw you over multiple times wouldn’t you be like that to.

some of you don’t want to watch anymore because you don’t agree with what they have done, then that’s your opinion. I rather have a show with people acting like real people Instead of trying to make them seem so perfect. But yeah they could tone down the hate towards Themselves or self loathing they all have in a aspect.

 

Edited by RocknRollZombie · Reason: Still editing my thoughts.
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22 minutes ago, Shermie said:

The thing too, is the reason Bev knew about Mark's need for money for the camp is because he was corresponding with her regularly.

Maybe if Harris was writing or calling her great-grandmother regularly, Bev would have heard about Harris's desire to go to tattoo school and would have offered to fund that too.

GG can't fund what she doesn't know about. The family, except Mark, was so awful to Bev they have no right expect anything from her. 

I don’t really blame Harris or Mary.

Mary is young. Sure, she could do better with keeping in contact with her Bev, but that’s on DJ for not pushing/reminding her.

Harris certainly made a mistake, but she‘s had a lot going on recently. When she first saw her Bev, she was happy to see her. Bev was the one who treated her awful by rejecting a hug from her own great granddaughter.

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When Darlene was griping that Harris FINALLY knows what she wants to do-I was thinking...Finally? She’s 18! Very few know what they want to do at that age!

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10 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

Love the show even if they do questionable things/actions. It’s probably the writers who decided to make Bev the most hated relative in the family. But the way the conners act and how you guys put it “screw each other over” isn’t really all that weird or outrageous to me since I have relatives like that in my own family. Relatives who have fucked over and stolen form each other, who have done stuff in live that has derailed them.

So I guess I could say I disagree with you guys on how the conners actions are rude and being assholes, but hell if live screw you over multiple times wouldn’t you be like that to.

some of you don’t want to watch anymore because you don’t agree with what they have done, then that’s your opinion. I rather have a show with people acting like real people Instead of trying to make them seem so perfect. 

 

Nobody expects them to be perfect but we do expect them to be funny. Being cruel to family members is mean spirited and I have never seen real people behave the way they do. Most people at least have decent manners.

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23 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

some of you don’t want to watch anymore because you don’t agree with what they have done, then that’s your opinion. I rather have a show with people acting like real people Instead of trying to make them seem so perfect.

They may be acting like real people, but they're acting like people I wouldn't really be interested in spending time with.  So although I'm not going to stop watching the show, for that reason, I don't blame people for wanting to.

12 minutes ago, Meushell said:

I don’t really blame Harris or Mary.

Mary is young. Sure, she could do better with keeping in contact with her Bev, but that’s on DJ for not pushing/reminding her.

Harris certainly made a mistake, but she‘s had a lot going on recently. When she first saw her Bev, she was happy to see her. Bev was the one who treated her awful by rejecting a hug from her own great granddaughter.

I think this is a good point.  Especially when you consider how all the adults are probably talking about Bev in front of the kids, it's hard to expect them to have a lot of warm fuzzy feelings toward her.  And if you're not close with your grandmother, it's not like your kids will be.

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3 hours ago, RocknRollZombie said:

Love the show even if they do questionable things/actions. It’s probably the writers who decided to make Bev the most hated relative in the family. But the way the conners act and how you guys put it “screw each other over” isn’t really all that weird or outrageous to me since I have relatives like that in my own family. Relatives who have fucked over and stolen from each other, who have done stuff in live that has derailed them.

So I guess I could say I disagree with you guys on how the conners actions are rude and being assholes, but hell if live screw you over multiple times wouldn’t you be like that to.

some of you don’t want to watch anymore because you don’t agree with what they have done, then that’s your opinion. I rather have a show with people acting like real people Instead of trying to make them seem so perfect. But yeah they could tone down the hate towards Themselves or self loathing they all have in a aspect.

 

I don’t think they have to be perfect and I’d even understand if it were just Jackie and to a certain extent Dan having issues with Bev, but to have the entire family including the great grandkids trash talk and/or knowingly try to scam a 94 year old woman is disturbing.  It’s disturbing because they are trying to portray the Conners as “good” people.  I mean if they were purposely writing them as grifters and scammers, it would be one thing, but I believe the writers still want us to believe these are basically good people just down on their luck.  We are suppose to root for them, not cringe.

Edited by Irate Panda
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Perfect people don't make good comedy. Nobody expects the Connors to be paragaons of virtue. It's possible to write flawed characters even with criminal records dealing with all sorts of grim stuff and still have good comedy. 'Mom' regularly gets that right.

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2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Perfect people don't make good comedy. Nobody expects the Connors to be paragaons of virtue. It's possible to write flawed characters even with criminal records dealing with all sorts of grim stuff and still have good comedy. 'Mom' regularly gets that right.

Agree “Mom” is a great explain of flawed characters and comedy.

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I deleted the series from my DVR after this episode.  

I'm glad that Bev told Mark that he wouldn't be receiving the money and why as it really was due to Darlene's demands and Bev needed to explain to Mark why she wouldn't be giving him the money after she told him she would.

If Darlene was really concerned about Harris' future, maybe she should have treated the job that Harris got for her more seriously.  Yes, Harris was fired and the store went to robotic help, but nobody knew that at the time.  What Darlene DID know what that she had a job-but she didn't really care about it.  If she had treated it more seriously, maybe, oh I don't know, she would have some money to "help" Harris rather than telling Bev to fund Harris instead of Mark.

Darlene doesn't even care about her nieces as when she was going to steal money, it was only for Harris. AND, she wanted everyone's permission to steal that money so that they would all be equally blamed.  And, she never even considered the other children.

An above poster wrote that the Connors are only trying to deal with what life has thrown at them, but I disagree-over and over we see that it's their own decisions that are hurting them.

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3 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

 It’s disturbing because they are trying to portray the Conners as “good” people.  I mean if they were purposely writing them as grifters and scammers, it would be one thing, but I believe the writers still want us to believe these are basically good people just down on their luck.  We are suppose to root for them, not cringe.

I think you have hit the nail on the head.  These were always "down on their luck" people who made poor decisions, but they were good at heart and they loved and stuck with each other, so you would always root for them.  This episode made me want every misfortune imaginable to befall them, because they were giant assholes.  

47 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

If Darlene was really concerned about Harris' future, maybe she should have treated the job that Harris got for her more seriously.  Yes, Harris was fired and the store went to robotic help, but nobody knew that at the time.  What Darlene DID know what that she had a job-but she didn't really care about it.  If she had treated it more seriously, maybe, oh I don't know, she would have some money to "help" Harris rather than telling Bev to fund Harris instead of Mark.

Darlene doesn't even care about her nieces as when she was going to steal money, it was only for Harris. AND, she wanted everyone's permission to steal that money so that they would all be equally blamed.  And, she never even considered the other children.

Right on both counts.  Darlene thought the job was beneath her, and didn't give a shit how it made Harris look.  She is just selfish and awful.  

Dan and Mark were the only parts of this episode I liked. 

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Did anyone catch the small nugget of comedic gold where Darlene made the remark that being Bev's POA took up all of her free time lol.   

I think it's great that Bev told Mark what Darlene was up to.   He deserved to know.   Mark is the only one in the family who acts like a civilized human being and seems to actually like Bev.   That's the root of why she wants to help him, they actually like each other.   It's pretty funny that the whole 'tattoo school' thing is on the table like wow Harris finally knows what she wants to do.  Isn't that exactly why Darlene went to art school?  We can see how far that got her.  

I feel like the writers really believe the viewers were rooting for Darlene to take the extra 5 grand for Harris and it was like a testament to how good a person Darlene is that she didn't.   Good on you Darlene, you didn't steal 5k after your Grandmom already had to give you 5k to cover Mark's expenses.  For a bunch of people who hate Bevs guts so much they sure do have their hand in her pocket all the time.  

 

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This whole plotline was confusing. 

Everything about the show is confusing lately. If you recall, Bev had to move into Jackie's apartment, allegedly because she was broke. Remember? Now she's got all this money to throw around. Darlene says she's seen her accounts and knows she can afford to give 5K to both Harris and Mark. Plus it turned out she owned the Lunch Box building, something else nobody knew about. 

What happened to Dan's brother, little Ed? He was around for two episodes and they haven't mentioned him since.

Then of course there's the question of Jerry and Andy. 

It's all just very sloppy. There's no continuity or logic to any of it. The sort of conveniently forget about characters and plot points when they contradict whatever new story they want to tell.

So yeah . . . it's kind of crazy everyone was being such a bitch to Bev but, considering that nobody has ever really liked Bev, that's kind of the least of this show's problems.

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23 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

When Darlene was griping that Harris FINALLY knows what she wants to do-I was thinking...Finally? She’s 18! Very few know what they want to do at that age!

IMHO Darlene probably feels guilty because she acted like such an idiot at Harris' job that it caused Harris to get fired and lose her ability to pay for college. So why not overcompensate and give Harris the money that Mark truly deserved? And how did Harris all of a sudden decide to become a tattoo artist? Because David was an artist? Cos I don't remember seeing Harris doing any drawing or anything else besides being an entitled teenager smoking pot and making pot cookies early on (until she got her job which her dingbat mother got her fired for). 

I can totally believe Bev has hidden money somewhere which Darlene found out about after she became her power of attorney. And of course Bev would want to move in with Jackie so she could continue to torment her. 

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1 hour ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

IMHO Darlene probably feels guilty because she acted like such an idiot at Harris' job that it caused Harris to get fired and lose her ability to pay for college. So why not overcompensate and give Harris the money that Mark truly deserved? And how did Harris all of a sudden decide to become a tattoo artist? Because David was an artist? Cos I don't remember seeing Harris doing any drawing or anything else besides being an entitled teenager smoking pot and making pot cookies early on (until she got her job which her dingbat mother got her fired for). 

Didn't Harris say she was was replaced by the robot we saw in that episode? (Which makes no sense, since I don't see how a pillar on wheels can do things like fold sweaters and count inventory; it's not like you can just (digitally) eyeball a pile of sweaters and know how many of each SKU is there. I think we're a ways away from armless robots doing that kind of thing.)

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2 hours ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

IMHO Darlene probably feels guilty because she acted like such an idiot at Harris' job that it caused Harris to get fired and lose her ability to pay for college. So why not overcompensate and give Harris the money that Mark truly deserved?

But in the intervening episode, Darlene was actively sabotaging Harris' opportunity to get the job at the tattoo parlor that Dan suggested, simply because she liked all the mother/daughter bonding they were doing while Harris was jobless and depressed. It's maddening. Darlene is written so inconsistently, yet she comes off like a asshole in every episode.

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6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Everything about the show is confusing lately. If you recall, Bev had to move into Jackie's apartment, allegedly because she was broke.

I thought she got kicked out of her retirement home, and was moving in with someone - first Becky, then Jackie - because of her age, not because of finances.  Or maybe she just said she was broke.  Bev kept ownership of the restaurant building secret so it would be money the rest of the family didn't know was coming to them after she died.  She'd probably been playing "broke" in general a) to keep them from constantly having their hands out and b) because Bev is a passive-aggressive, manipulative person who rather enjoys games. 

Edited by Bastet
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4 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Didn't Harris say she was was replaced by the robot we saw in that episode? (Which makes no sense, since I don't see how a pillar on wheels can do things like fold sweaters and count inventory; it's not like you can just (digitally) eyeball a pile of sweaters and know how many of each SKU is there. I think we're a ways away from armless robots doing that kind of thing.)

Good point.  It’s like someone from the time when the show first aired imagined what robots would do in 2020.  That’s pretty hilarious, even the robots are out to get the conners.  

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9 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Didn't Harris say she was was replaced by the robot we saw in that episode? (Which makes no sense, since I don't see how a pillar on wheels can do things like fold sweaters and count inventory; it's not like you can just (digitally) eyeball a pile of sweaters and know how many of each SKU is there. I think we're a ways away from armless robots doing that kind of thing.)

FWIW, although I didn't see the episode where Harris got fired and don't know how applicable this is, people are working on inventory systems that will involve scanners mounted in grocery store aisles to alert employees of what needs to be restocked.  I think clothing will be a different beast, but as far as robots managing inventory, it's not actually that far off.  Plus, they already have robots roaming the aisles in grocery stores.

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On 4/10/2020 at 2:18 AM, Irate Panda said:

On the original show Roseanne and Dan had a baby named Jerry, he was the youngest and Jackie had a son named Andy.

I was being ironic 😛

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For kids who grew up in a family with no money, these kids sure are entitled. “I deserve it.” Really? I mean, if you take away the humanity that often comes with having little money and having to watch out for each other, what is the value of this show? 

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On 4/11/2020 at 1:13 PM, ams1001 said:

Didn't Harris say she was was replaced by the robot we saw in that episode? (Which makes no sense, since I don't see how a pillar on wheels can do things like fold sweaters and count inventory; it's not like you can just (digitally) eyeball a pile of sweaters and know how many of each SKU is there. I think we're a ways away from armless robots doing that kind of thing.)

That what Harris said, but I think that was something thrown in so that we wouldn't think Darlene got her fired. I get the feeling the writers want Darlene to come off as this down-on-her-luck mom who is just trying to do what is best for her kids, but it's not working.  She is unpleasant, selfish, ungrateful, spiteful, and hateful.  Even if they were trying to make her Roseanne 2.0, Roseanne was never this ugly.  On the show, anyway.

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