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S01.E09: Zoey’s Extraordinary Silence

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Zoey tries to help Mitch's caregiver, Howie, reconnect with his estranged daughter. Max must make a decision about his future at SPRQ Point.

Airing Sunday, April 5, 2020.

 

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So price was the only reason this upper middle class family didn't pursue the obvious option of a stair lift?  They cost about $5000 (don't know about the "Mercedes" version.)  Zoey alone likely makes upward of $100,000 per year.  And Maggie's been sleeping in a chair for a week and a half because she can't order an air mattress from Amazon and no one else thought of bringing her one until now?  This family needs a social worker or something.

I'm not clear either on why the unassembled bassinet is at the parents' house (I'm assuming it's not an old family heirloom).  Seems easier to bring the box home and assemble it there, then to put the finished product in a car, but they needed everyone to be at the same house.

 

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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Sound of Silence is always beautiful song, but that duet was awesome... 

I did also really enjoy the Fight Song performance, and bringing in more about Howie and his daughter seemed to fit with the story well. 

Ugh the simon stuff... it did have me tearing up at the end with their song, but mostly because it was very well done and I enjoyed the choreography... plus ending a relationship like that is always sad, even if it's the right thing... 

However, I wish they had never gone this direction with Zoey's love interests in the first place. But at least it's moving forward in some way.

Max's new job is an interesting twist, but much less meaningful to have him take the job when he's being kind of an ass, though really, it'd be easier for them to date if Zoey wasn't his boss... so there's that for down the road I guess (though with the preview for next time, maybe he won't be gone long) and as one of the leads of the show (at least I assume he's supposed to be) there will have to be ways to keep him involved...

I was excited to see Ava... I didn't recognize her at first, but her voice is very recognizable from Altered Carbon... so that's a fun new connection!

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17 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

So price was the only reason this upper middle class family didn't pursue the obvious option of a stair lift?  They cost about $5000 (don't know about the "Mercedes" version.)  Zoey alone likely makes upward of $100,000 per year.  And Maggie's been sleeping in a chair for a week and a half because she can't order an air mattress from Amazon and no one else thought of bringing her one until now?  This family needs a social worker or something.

Didn't they just move down a queen sized mattress a few weeks ago? Where did that go? And if the dad has been sleeping upstairs this entire time how has he been getting up there? There's a lot of the little details here that are not working for me. Why is she sleeping on an office chair (?!?) and not the couch? 

Max and Simon both suck tonight (once again). Max really needs to stop being annoyed whenever he brings up his feelings for Zoey and she doesn't immediately respond how hw wants her to. As his boss and friend, she told him to take the two floors up promotion he was fine, but he was mad when Maybe In Love Zoey told him to take it he was hurt? Dude. It's TWO floors up and she will no longer be your boss. This is a good thing romantic relationship wise. 

I am glad Simon ended things with Jessica, I just wish it had come before Zoey ended things with Simon. I still have no idea where Simon is feelings wise, and he seems just as confused as the audience is I think.

Is the show trying to make us root for one of these guys over the other? Because right now neither are great options for Zoey. Can this show please have Howie's daughter work at the company? That office is in desperate need of more women and Zoey could use a friend/co-worker that isn't a) in love with her or b) Tobin and Leif. 
 

Edited by HighHopes
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21 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

Can this show please have Howie's daughter work at the company? That office is in desperate need of more women and Zoey could use a friend/co-worker that isn't a) in love with her or b) Tobin and Leif. 

She's still in college. Not going to happen for a while, except possibly as a summer intern.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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15 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

So price was the only reason this upper middle class family didn't pursue the obvious option of a stair lift?  They cost about $5000 (don't know about the "Mercedes" version.)  Zoey alone likely makes upward of $100,000 per year.  And Maggie's been sleeping in a chair for a week and a half because she can't order an air mattress from Amazon and no one else thought of bringing her one until now?  This family needs a social worker or something.

I'm not clear either on why the unassembled bassinet is at the parents' house (I'm assuming it's not an old family heirloom).  Seems easier to bring the box home and assemble it there, then to put the finished product in a car, but they needed everyone to be at the same house.

Thank you, @ItCouldBeWorse, for typing all that stuff that I was thinking. 
And I’m pretty sure I’ve ranted about WTH with No F’in’ Chairlift? for at least 2 previous episodes. 

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I’m only half way through but just needed to post to say that I love Mo. That conversation with Simon was exactly what needed to be said and helped restore my faith that the show knows what is doing. 

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8 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

She's still in college. Not going to happen for a while, except possibly a a summer intern.

I'm good with her being an Intern, or even just showing up at the office to talk with Tobin. The show is also about a girl who can now hear people singing their thoughts with popular songs so I am willing to handwave away her still being in college haha. 

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The performance of Fight Song was beautiful. The music told you what the song was and even if you don’t know the lyrics, the emotion conveyed made it clear what Abigail was feeling. 

I’m glad that Zoey talked to Simon about how she’s feeling and decided to remove herself from the situation. I assume the Jessica/Simon duet she saw was them breaking up, but I doubt Simon would’ve talked to Jessica if Zoey hadn’t spoken up first. I wonder if he told Jessica about the kiss. Both Jessica and Zoey deserve better than someone who can’t make up his mind.

Love to see Renee Elise Goldsberry! I think Max wanted Zoey to tell him not to take the job, and even though Zoey was being a good friend by supporting his career, I understand why it hurt to hear. 

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27 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

Didn't they just move down a queen sized mattress a few weeks ago? Where did that go? And if the dad has been sleeping upstairs this entire time how has he been getting up there? There's a lot of the little details here that are not working for me. Why is she sleeping on an office chair (?!?) and not the couch? 

Maggie had apparently been helping/dragging Mitch up and down the stairs for months, until the one night their friend was watching Mitch and there was an accident and Mitch fell, after which Max singlehandedly brought down the queen-sized mattress and bed frame and assembled them in the big empty spot in the front room, while wearing a suit and tie.  Then, the newly-hired nurse did something with the queen-sized mattress and bed frame when she got the hospital bed for Mitch before being fired.  I also thought that that point, Maggie swapped the hospital bed back for the queen-sized bed so she could sleep with Mitch again. 

As long as Mitch can safely sit in the stair lift it's probably much better for him to sleep upstairs anyway, because with no guest room downstairs, it's unlikely they have a full bathroom for Mitch to shower in downstairs, either.

None of this really made sense for a family of very smart people.

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I would love it if they back entirely off the love interests for a while. Simon breaking up with Jessica doesn’t change the fact that he is hurting and Mo is right that hurt people, hurt people. And none of this changes the fact that Zoey is conflicted. I sort of loved her speech to Simon but she was still only partially truthful. She wants him to want her and that’s not worth ending a relationship over so I really hope he ended it because of Mo forcing him to face reality and not Zoey’s decision. 

Max was awful this week. He really needs to sing next week because not even Skyler‘s charm can save Max’s behavior. Really asshole her father is dying, can’t you put your bruised ego aside and just be her friend right now. 

Every week there is a least one scene that convinces me this is all a coma dream. This time it was Max’s entire plot. Is the women who works on the sixth floor some kind of spy or assassin? The key in his pocket and the cryptic way of talking was so bizarre.

I loved everything about Howie and his daughter. I also loved all the musical numbers this week. 

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

So price was the only reason this upper middle class family didn't pursue the obvious option of a stair lift?  They cost about $5000 (don't know about the "Mercedes" version.)  Zoey alone likely makes upward of $100,000 per year.  And Maggie's been sleeping in a chair for a week and a half because she can't order an air mattress from Amazon and no one else thought of bringing her one until now?  This family needs a social worker or something.

I'm not clear either on why the unassembled bassinet is at the parents' house (I'm assuming it's not an old family heirloom).  Seems easier to bring the box home and assemble it there, then to put the finished product in a car, but they needed everyone to be at the same house.

 

I’ve given up on the show making any logical sense. It’s like they live in a surreal dream world where things just happen and everyone goes along with it. Fortunately I like the show enough that I am also willing to just go with it. 

Although the chair lift did make sense to me. He’s only got weeks left to live and may not want to spend the money on a lift that would only be used for a short time. Everything else was absurd but that one thing seems plausible. 

Edited by Dani
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1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

 

I'm not clear either on why the unassembled bassinet is at the parents' house (I'm assuming it's not an old family heirloom).  Seems easier to bring the box home and assemble it there, then to put the finished product in a car, but they needed everyone to be at the same house.

 

I just figured this was going to be a bassinet that stayed at Grandma's house because the baby will be spending a lot of time there.

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14 minutes ago, Dani said:

Although the chair lift did make sense to me. He’s only got weeks left to live and may not want to spend the money on a lift that would only be used for a short time.

I suppose, but they should have gotten it months ago as soon as Mitch couldn't do stairs by himself.  Furthermore, it may sound somewhat morbid, but I assume that after he dies the lift could be installed in another home, so perhaps it could be resold at a discount.

16 minutes ago, anniebird said:

I just figured this was going to be a bassinet that stayed at Grandma's house because the baby will be spending a lot of time there.

That makes sense!

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Just now, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I suppose, but they should have gotten it months ago as soon as Mitch couldn't do stairs by himself.  Furthermore, it may sound somewhat morbid, but I assume that after he dies the lift could be installed in another home, so perhaps it could be resold at a discount.

Logically you’re right but the family has been in complete denial over this whole thing. Grieving people aren’t logical. I’ve been there and looking back I wonder what they hell we were thinking with some choices. 

Realistically the chair lift is a bad decision at this point. He’s only got weeks left. They need to pick a floor and stay there. 

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I agree about how good Fight Song was. That whole thing done as a deaf performance was creative and quite moving. And the rest of the song performances were really good. When they have people with some talent perform, it works great; the bad ones like Mary S. are cringey

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If Mitch could sleep in a regular bed, not a hospital bed, they could have put a regular bed downstairs. But I like the chairlift solution because I think not everyone knows they exist, and it is a good thing to have publicized. But they should have done it weeks or months ago.

Newsflash for Max: lots of people carry on romantic relationships who don't sit next to each other all day long at work, and it's especially good for a relationship when one of the parties is not the other's boss. And if someone says they love you, but they want you to give up a promotion that does not in any way interfere with your possible relationship. they are holding you back and they don't really love you.

It makes no damn sense what Max is doing. She said she'd miss him. She said she was excited for him. That is exactly what someone who loves you would say, especially when it's just two floors away. They can still have lunch together every day if they want to. They can see each other ever yday after work if they want to. The obstacle to them being lovers is not the distance between their offices, it's that Zoey doesn't want to.

And he's the one who said he needs space and can't have movie night with her right now, so what the hell is this double standard bullshit, anyway????

I agree with everyone about how awesome Howie's daughter is, and I am really warming up to Tobin. I don't want Zoey to date or hook up with Simon OR Max. They both need to deal with their issues first. And Mo is awesome, as always.

I didn't know Zoey's brother's wife's name is Emily until this week. I like her, but I don't understand why she and Dave don't know how to talk to each other. How long have they been married? I like mom's advice, though. I can't remember mom's name. But I like her.

Thank you for not subjecting me to more of the Leif and Joan saga this week.

I thought it was super-creepy that Max's new boss slipped the card into his pocket without him noticing. That alone would make me not want to work for her. She seems really scary in general, though. I would not believe she actually was impressed by Max's act during the chirp presentation, nor that she wanted her team to be more... what did she say? Individual and creative? She and her office were like something from a science fiction alternate universe. Are we sure Max won't be managing a team of robots? That would be pretty funny, actually. Now I kind of hope that's where this is going.

I still hate how little focus anyone has on Dad, even when visiting Dad. It's like they ignore him and he sits on the couch dying while they all chat in the other room.

 

Edited by possibilities
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Max being (validly) upset with Zoey for sending mixed signals with her feelings for him is no different than Zoey being upset that Simon is unsure/isn't clear about what he wants with Zoey. 

I'm Team Max. They have a great friendship as their foundation. That, as an engaged man, Simon's been having conflicting feelings for another woman makes him a lot less appealing and trustworthy. 

Aside from the exhausting triangle, this show is a joy. "Fight Song" is one of the best musical moments yet. 

Edited by funnygirl
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I enjoyed this episode mainly because it reminded me of the existence of the group Arrested Development  whose album Mo had in place of prominence. 

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5 hours ago, possibilities said:

It makes no damn sense what Max is doing. She said she'd miss him. She said she was excited for him. That is exactly what someone who loves you would say, especially when it's just two floors away. They can still have lunch together every day if they want to. They can see each other ever yday after work if they want to. The obstacle to them being lovers is not the distance between their offices, it's that Zoey doesn't want to.

Can’t we assume that Max saw it this way too? I was pretty sleepy while watching, did I miss something that would indicate that Max did not take the job on floor 6 in part so he and Zoey could have a relationship (without her being his boss)?

 

 

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

I thought it was super-creepy that Max's new boss slipped the card into his pocket without him noticing. That alone would make me not want to work for her. She seems really scary in general, though. I would not believe she actually was impressed by Max's act during the chirp presentation, nor that she wanted her team to be more... what did she say? Individual and creative? She and her office were like something from a science fiction alternate universe. Are we sure Max won't be managing a team of robots? That would be pretty funny, actually. Now I kind of hope that's where this is going.

hah! If she’s a robot that would make so much sense and be hilarious! 😂🤣

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As an interpreter myself, I am always on edge as to how Deaf actors will be used. This was done really well. I was so pleased that they didn’t voice over the song. And the dancers were obviously native signers. We’ve come a ways from using hearing actors. The guy in the office ( Tobin?) had some solid sign skills himself. He either is a quick learner or has Deaf family.

Edited by Quickbeam · Reason: Add character name
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10 hours ago, roctavia said:

Max's new job is an interesting twist, but much less meaningful to have him take the job when he's being kind of an ass, though really, it'd be easier for them to date if Zoey wasn't his boss... so there's that for down the road I guess (though with the preview for next time, maybe he won't be gone long) and as one of the leads of the show (at least I assume he's supposed to be) there will have to be ways to keep him involved...

Even if Zoey wasn't his boss, it isn't that great to date people you work with. It's terrific if things are going well - but if you break up, it's nasty. I've seen it happen more than once.

10 hours ago, HighHopes said:

Max really needs to stop being annoyed whenever he brings up his feelings for Zoey and she doesn't immediately respond how hw wants her to. As his boss and friend, she told him to take the two floors up promotion he was fine, but he was mad when Maybe In Love Zoey told him to take it he was hurt? Dude. It's TWO floors up and she will no longer be your boss. This is a good thing romantic relationship wise

I know, right? It's in the same freaking building. It's actually kind of ideal. They can still see each other in the elevator and have lunch (or whatever).

10 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

She's still in college. Not going to happen for a while, except possibly as a summer intern.

After she gets back from Kenya. 😉

I loved Sounds of Silence. The guy playing the care worker has a great voice, and I loved Gallagher joining in. I also like how they're having Tobin grow.

Edited by Clanstarling
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10 hours ago, roctavia said:

Sound of Silence is always beautiful song, but that duet was awesome... 

That and the silent version of "Fight Song" are my top two performances of the season. Really, really striking and moving.

10 hours ago, phalange said:

Love to see Renee Elise Goldsberry!

Poor Lauren Graham, having a song battle with her in two weeks! She'll get blown out of the water. Hee.

7 hours ago, funnygirl said:

Max being (validly) upset with Zoey for sending mixed signals with her feelings for him is no different than Zoey being upset that Simon is unsure/isn't clear about what he wants with Zoey. 

Except Zoey isn't pouting and being passive-aggressive every time she sees Simon. Max is acting like a child. I also don't understand what he wanted Zoey to say about the job offer. A true friend wants to see other friends succeed, and that promotion is huge for Max. If he were on the fence about it because he wasn't sure he was ready/qualified, that's one thing, but it seemed like he wanted Zoey to tell him to stay on the fourth floor because of his feelings for her. WTF?

15 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I also like how they're having Tobin grow.

Same, and they're also staying in character with it: He learned to sign because there was a hot deaf girl in high school. Heh.

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The Sounds of Silence was beautifully sung. I know several people predicted that we would get saddled with Fight Song at some point this season so I'm glad that when it finally happened, they made it a beautiful performance (bonus: we didn't actually have to hear anyone sing it!).

I'm pretty sure that the horrified look of embarrassment at having to witness such a spectacle that Zoey had on her face while Emily was singing Buttons is the same look I had on my face last week when Zoey was singing during her meeting at work.

I like the little that we've seen of Emily but I have a hard time believing that she would talk about her sex life with David's mother. It was very sweet of Emily to buy the chair lift for Mitch and Maggie.

I loved that Mo didn't try to be delicate about the situation at all and cut right to the chase as soon as she had a second alone with Simon.

Although it's obvious that Simon and Jessica haven't set a date because they're still working through all the Zoey stuff, they did have a perfectly plausible excuse as to why they hadn't set a date yet. You can pick your perfect date but that kind of goes out the window once you start contacting venues. If you really love a spot, you take whatever date you can get (especially in California where everywhere is booked a year in advance). I know so many people who had to change their wedding dates to six months later because that's when the venue they wanted was available.

Hamilton spotting! As soon as I saw Renée Elise Goldsberry, I was waiting for her to sing. DAMN IT, SHOW!

I loved that Mo was going all High Fidelity and reorganizing her record collection.

I was glad that Zoey finally had the courage to tell Simon exactly how she was feeling (although I should also add TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE to have that conversation at work!).

As much as I understand Howie or any parent wanting to protect their kid, there's a point where you can't forbid them to do things anymore. Abigail is an adult and she got a grant to go to Kenya so she doesn't need his permission to go.

Tobin continues to become better every week. I loved the look on Abigail's face when he was talking about the hot girl in high school who was deaf. I know several people who learned ASL in high school and college so it was nice to see a character on tv who voluntarily learned ASL. At my high school, ASL wasn't an official foreign language class but it was offered as an after school elective so you REALLY had to want to learn it and be willing to give up your after school time for it. Two of my friends took it for two years and loved it (no hot guys or girls were involved in their decision).

Oh, Max. He really wanted Zoey to tell him not to take the promotion so that he could keep sitting across from her forever, and he is resentful that she is being a good friend and telling him to go for this great opportunity instead of begging him to stay because she's so in love with him that she can't bear for him to work two floors away. Newsflash: you still get to see each other every single day and the fact that she's no longer your boss means you can date. You'd think that would make him happy and want to take the job!

On 4/5/2020 at 7:53 PM, HighHopes said:

I'm good with her being an Intern, or even just showing up at the office to talk with Tobin. The show is also about a girl who can now hear people singing their thoughts with popular songs so I am willing to handwave away her still being in college haha. 

They mentioned making her an intern when she gets back from Kenya, so it's a possibility. Even if she's not graduating yet, lots of undergrads do internships while they're still attending classes. She can take BART from faux Cal to SF and be at the office in less than an hour.

On 4/5/2020 at 7:01 PM, Lady Calypso said:

And at least Simon FINALLY broke things off with Jessica...although I wonder, if Zoey hadn't broken things off with Simon first that he'd actually do the same for Jessica. And...also, at work? Really, buddy? At WORK? 

I don't think Simon actually broke up with Jessica at work. She reached for his hand in the elevator at the end of the song so I think they're now in the phase of their relationship where they know things are fucked up and that they are going to break up but neither of them wants to actually say that out loud and officially end things.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo · Reason: typo
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40 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Even if Zoey wasn't his boss, it isn't that great to date people you work with. It's terrific if things are going well - but if you break up, it's nasty. I've seen it happen more than once.

I have a “don’t shit where you eat” rule. It’s one thing to date someone at your company that you don’t work directly with, especially if the company is big, because you don’t have to see them if things go south. But dating people you work directly with can get very messy, not just for the couple but for the people who have to work with them. Dating people who report to you is REALLY messy, especially for the rest of the team. You can’t objectively manage someone you’re dating. There is no reason for Max not to take that job.

Also these people conduct way too much personal business at work. Good Lord.

27 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Poor Lauren Graham, having a song battle with her in two weeks! She'll get blown out of the water. Hee.

I. Cannot. WAIT. It’s about to be a bloodbath, and I also love that song.

Loved the whole Abigail storyline.

I thought Jessica and Simon were breaking up in that last scene. She deserves better, frankly. I liked that Mo expressly said Simon and Zoey were having an emotional affair.

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1 hour ago, Quickbeam said:

The guy in the office ( Tobin?) had some solid sign skills himself. He either is a quick learner or has Deaf family.

Tobin said that he originally learned ASL in high school to try and sleep with a deaf girl, but wound up loving the language instead. Much like the character himself, sleazy origins but hidden depths!

When most shows do a triangle, they allow the lead to gravitate towards one or the other for a few episodes or even a season at a time. This whole ping-ponging back-and-forth between Max and Simon from episode to episode is getting exhausting. In one scene she’s mad at Simon, the next scene Max is mad at her...enough! Unpopular opinion, but Zoey really lost me in her self righteous speech about not wanting to be the other woman. Uh, honey, are you forgetting when you didn’t try to avoid or break the kiss at any point in time when Simon literally had to turn your head 90° to even initiate it? Seems like you were happy to let the opportunity to do the right thing fly by when you were getting what you wanted. Now you’re just pissed he didn’t run home and break off his engagement so all the sudden you’re trying to do damage control and claim the moral high ground. Hard pass. 

I can’t remember a love triangle where I individually disliked both options so much. Max is also an entitled, adolescent douchebag. He’s using their friendship as leverage to bully Zoey into fucking him. He and Simon can both go kick rocks, they both suck so hard and frankly Zoey isn’t that great either in all of this. At this point, Tobin deserves a relationship more than any of them, which is saying something. 

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11 hours ago, HighHopes said:

Max and Simon both suck tonight (once again). Max really needs to stop being annoyed whenever he brings up his feelings for Zoey and she doesn't immediately respond how hw wants her to. As his boss and friend, she told him to take the two floors up promotion he was fine, but he was mad when Maybe In Love Zoey told him to take it he was hurt? Dude. It's TWO floors up and she will no longer be your boss. This is a good thing romantic relationship wise.

I can't tell whether he wanted her to say that she thought he should take the job, so they could date or that she thought he shouldn't take the job so they'd still sit across from each other and hang out all the time. I guess either would work, as long as it came with an admission of her feelings.

11 hours ago, Dani said:

I’m only half way through but just needed to post to say that I love Mo. That conversation with Simon was exactly what needed to be said and helped restore my faith that the show knows what is doing. 

YES! That scene was so great.

The brother's wife talking to Mary Steenburgen was SO cringeworthy. Do people talk to their in-laws about their sex lives? In any case, David and his wife need to learn to communicate.

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11 hours ago, roctavia said:

I was excited to see Ava... I didn't recognize her at first, but her voice is very recognizable from Altered Carbon... so that's a fun new connection!

That is Renee Elise Goldsberry! Also known as the OG Angelica in Hamilton! 

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5 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Unpopular opinion, but Zoey really lost me in her self righteous speech about not wanting to be the other woman. Uh, honey, are you forgetting when you didn’t try to avoid or break the kiss at any point in time when Simon literally had to turn your head 90° to even initiate it?

Also the emotional affair is bad too, and that’s what Jessica is responding to/hurt by. And telling an engaged guy you want him to want you isn’t exactly on the up and up. Zoey and Simon haven’t slept together but a lot of people would dump their SOs for what they HAVE done.

Actually, real talk? I could probably forgive my dude having sex once with another person to whom he had no emotional attachment more easily than I could forgive what Zoey and Simon are doing. 

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29 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Tobin said that he originally learned ASL in high school to try and sleep with a deaf girl, but wound up loving the language instead. Much like the character himself, sleazy origins but hidden depths!

I meant the actor himself was facile with sign. 

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3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Can’t we assume that Max saw it this way too? I was pretty sleepy while watching, did I miss something that would indicate that Max did not take the job on floor 6 in part so he and Zoey could have a relationship (without her being his boss)?

Based on him telling Zoey her answer was wrong I saw it has him taking the job because she disappointed him. 

 

9 hours ago, possibilities said:

And he's the one who said he needs space and can't have movie night with her right now, so what the hell is this double standard bullshit, anyway????

I agree with everyone about how awesome Howie's daughter is, and I am really warming up to Tobin. I don't want Zoey to date or hook up with Simon OR Max. They both need to deal with their issues first. And Mo is awesome, as always.

The thing that pisses me off the most is that both Simon and Max know what she is going through at home. What she needs is a friend not someone who is going to pressure her for answers when she is clearly struggling to function. Her best friend is essentially abandoning her when she needs him the most

 

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't think Simon actually broke up with Jessica at work. She reached for his hand in the elevator at the end of the song so I think they're now in the phase of their relationship where they know things are fucked up and that they are going to break up but neither of them wants to actually say that out loud and officially end things.

I think that was the choreography. After that they turned away from each other dramatically. Just based on the song I think it was a breakup. 

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39 minutes ago, Quickbeam said:

I meant the actor himself was facile with sign. 

I actually looked it up. On his Instagram, he says that he actually studied it for weeks prior to this episode, so he didn't know ASL before this episode.

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40 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I actually looked it up. On his Instagram, he says that he actually studied it for weeks prior to this episode, so he didn't know ASL before this episode.

Oh good to know! I was wondering last night if the role required an actor who knew ASL or if they taught the actor the lines for the show. 

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So, I decided to rewatch the end scene with Max/Zoey. It's definitely not AS bad as I initially perceived it, but it is still filled with a lot of subtext from Max. Now, he didn't seem as angry with Zoey's answer than I initially read it as; he seems more resigned, disappointed, but a little more accepting than I thought. 

However...it should be noted that Max's comment about the "What about the I'm Yours Zoey", he clearly still takes that as hope that they'll end up together, which is bothersome. He's more concerned with the feelings that Zoey might have and it's completely clouding his friendship with Zoey. I don't think he truly realizes that he may end up destroying the friendship because he's hung up on the "What if Zoey falls in love with me?" side. 

And that's the part he needs to drop. There's no use waiting for the What Ifs if she's not ready. He should be able to put that at the back of his mind and concentrate on not losing his best friend in the process. If he can do that and stop making comments such as "I guess you're back to reading people's souls...whether they want you to or not", then yeah, there's a chance for me to get on board with Zoey/Max. 

Simon/Zoey...is something that I do think is more tarnished with the affair that they were having. I think Simon, as a character, can come back from this, but Simon/Zoey as a couple cannot. It doesn't help matters that it doesn't seem like Simon would have made the first move on breaking things off had Zoey not done it first. He might still be with Jessica if not for Zoey. He might have waited until the wedding before he did anything. 

And I just feel so bad for Jessica. She did nothing wrong and got her heart broken by her cheating fiance. 

But, honestly, I'm still Team Nobody or Team Tobin, at this point. 

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2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

So, I decided to rewatch the end scene with Max/Zoey. It's definitely not AS bad as I initially perceived it, but it is still filled with a lot of subtext from Max. Now, he didn't seem as angry with Zoey's answer than I initially read it as; he seems more resigned, disappointed, but a little more accepting than I thought. 

However...it should be noted that Max's comment about the "What about the I'm Yours Zoey", he clearly still takes that as hope that they'll end up together, which is bothersome. He's more concerned with the feelings that Zoey might have and it's completely clouding his friendship with Zoey. I don't think he truly realizes that he may end up destroying the friendship because he's hung up on the "What if Zoey falls in love with me?" side. 

And that's the part he needs to drop. There's no use waiting for the What Ifs if she's not ready. He should be able to put that at the back of his mind and concentrate on not losing his best friend in the process. If he can do that and stop making comments such as "I guess you're back to reading people's souls...whether they want you to or not", then yeah, there's a chance for me to get on board with Zoey/Max. 

It’s actually proving that Zoey was right to be hesitant. If their friendship can’t survive this it wouldn’t survive a breakup. 

I really do not understand why the show will not let up on the love triangle. It’s not like there are not enough other plots to go around. Unless the plan is for Zoey to end up with neither of them they are making a mistake and ruining both possibilities. 

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With Max, it seems like every conversation he has with Zoey he brings up his feelings for her and her lack of (at the moment) feelings for him. Why would he need to ask about "I'm Yours Zoey" when talking about the job opportunity? He is putting a lot of pressure on her to admit her feelings and whenever she doesn't he gets upset with her. He needs to give her the space and let her come around to her feelings on her own (if she has them and decides she wants to act on them). Right now he is acting like his friendship with her had the expectation that it would lead to a relationship. And if he can't continue to be friends with her right now because of his feelings for her, he needs to say that. They need to have a conversation/conversations similar to what Zoey/Simon have had. Talk about where they are at - what are the feeling and can their friendship survive not having a relationship. Max also has to realize that just because someone has feelings for someone else, doesn't mean they have to act on them immediately or at all. 

I get that he's upset and confused, but continuing to put pressure on Zoey and bring up their feelings isn't helping anything. Zoey is also not at a great position emotionally right now, she's having an emotional affair with an engaged man and her dad is weeks away from dying. Now is not the time for Max to want to pursue a romantic relationship, now is the time for him to be the best friend Zoey needs. 

I'm glad Mo called Simon out on the emotional affair, because that's what it is/was. And it was unfair to Jessica and Zoey what he was doing. Right now it would be best for him to also go away for a bit. His emotional state is a mess with his father dying, the engagement/affair, and end of engagement. He also could use a friend (Mo maybe?) that doesn't have any romantic feelings involved. 

I think my issue with the show is how they are (or maybe it's just the fan reaction?) are presenting Max's behaviour as understandable and that we should root for him but Simon's behaviour makes him the Absolute Worst. I would love to see Max sing a song that isn't a love song to Zoey. Give us more about him and actually build it up. This promotion came out of left field, especially when you consider the peer reviews he got previously. We know more about what Tobin contributes to projects (and even Leif) but at the office Max just sings love songs to Zoey and then asks her how she feels about him. 

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I was so happy they didn't subtitle "Fight Song." No, I don't know all the lyrics, but it didn't matter. I know the song, and the actors signed and danced it so well, that the emotion got through.

Also, I noticed how many people are praising Takil Talwalkar's signing ability, but no one's said a word about Zak Orth's. I wonder if it's because it makes sense that the character with a deaf daughter would know ASL, so it doesn't occur to us that the Zak would also have had to learn it for the role. I also wonder if was able to sign his dialog with his character's daughter proficiently, as you'd expect the father of a deaf child to do.

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2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I actually looked it up. On his Instagram, he says that he actually studied it for weeks prior to this episode, so he didn't know ASL before this episode.

Oh, I hate to say it, but for me that means we probably won't be seeing a lot of Abigail and she might have been a one-time character.  They would have to invest a lot more time for Tobin to be signing fluently in each episode, or they'd have to get her another interpreter, or invent an app that translates for her, which may already exist... 

I did love the story line with her, and the Fight Song.  But I doubt Howie will be hanging around much longer, since there would be no point in that once Mitch dies.  Which is sad, because Mitch & Howie's Sound of Silence duet was fabulous, and I loved that the same song had such different meaning for each of them.

I am totally confused at what direction the writers/show runner have Max going from moment to moment.  His character really is all over the place, and it's distracting. 

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That was a really good episode, even if I feel like this love triangle is going to have to end with everyone realizing that they need to figure their own stuff out before they're ready for a relationship. None of them seem to be ready for a real relationship right now.

So, is the upstairs floor taking place in a science fiction story? I mean, Renee Elise Goldsberry was just in Altered Carbon, it all lines up! That place looks super weird, is Max going to be supervising a bunch of AIs and thats why they need him and his quirkiness?

So I think Simon and Jessica have broken up, and thats probably for the best. Even without Zoey, they dont seem to be in the same page, Simon seems to be trying to pull away, and thats no way to start a marriage, as much as it hurts, its better to stop now. 

Great to see more of Howie, and I really liked the whole plot with his daughter. The dance sequence with her and the other deaf students was really lovely and well done. I am glad that they didn't have them vocally sing and instead showed that there are many ways to express a heart song. Howie has a really good voice, the Song of Silence duet between him and Mitch was my favorite song of the episode, it was very haunting. 

Poor Zoey, one of the worst things about this power must be the learning WAY more than she ever wanted about the sex lives of her family. I cant say, no matter how frustrated I got, I would be cool with talking about my sex life with my mother in law. 

Tobin has anther good episode, being helpful and it turns out he also knows sign language! Not having Leif around has really done wonders for his personality. Maybe he and Leif are kind of opposites, where Leif acts nice but is really a jerk, while Tonib acted like a jerk, but really is a decent guy, who is just insecure and spend too much time trying to impress his jerk bestie.

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2 hours ago, Dani said:

I really do not understand why the show will not let up on the love triangle. It’s not like there are not enough other plots to go around.

As a life long triangle hater, I feel what you're saying. But the simple answer (for me) is: This is a musical show, and most songs are love songs.


 

2 hours ago, HighHopes said:

With Max, it seems like every conversation he has with Zoey he brings up his feelings for her and her lack of (at the moment) feelings for him. Why would he need to ask about "I'm Yours Zoey" when talking about the job opportunity? He is putting a lot of pressure on her to admit her feelings and whenever she doesn't he gets upset with her.

And this is an example (to me) of the dialog being sacrificed for the show format, meaning, that if this was a book, we could just read what Max was thinking without him having to tell Zoey, or even have Max discuss it with a friend, but this show doesn't revolve around Max, so he doesn't get to have a character that revolves around him.
Also, because this is an episodic format, we need to be reminded weeks later that Zoey sang a song saying "I'm Yours."
In other words, the dialog isn't going to be the best part of the show, although there are good bits here and there.
If the show gets a second season and the dialog blossoms, I will Glee-fully post about it.

 

 

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8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Can’t we assume that Max saw it this way too?

No, he told her that what she said was the wrong answer.

Other characters sing songs that aren't love songs, and have storylines and dialogue that isn't about that. I think it's a choice the showrunners make, to have a triangle, for reasons the same as non-musical shows do it. Since I don't enjoy it, I don't really understand why, but it appears to be an industry-wide habit. I guess it must have its fans.

I hope this show is actually headed toward "none of the above, we all need to deal with our issues" as the resolution, but I never predict a show will do something unusual, because I'd rather celebrate if they do than be disappointed when they don't.

I agree with this:

2 hours ago, HighHopes said:

I would love to see Max sing a song that isn't a love song to Zoey

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Did I miss something?  I thought we've been discussing in the forums that Zoey isn't willing to date Max because she was his boss.  She never told him that, right?  So if she isn't his boss anymore, boom, problem solved.

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27 minutes ago, possibilities said:

No, he told her that what she said was the wrong answer.

Other characters sing songs that aren't love songs, and have storylines and dialogue that isn't about that. I think it's a choice the showrunners make, to have a triangle, for reasons the same as non-musical shows do it. Since I don't enjoy it, I don't really understand why, but it appears to be an industry-wide habit. I guess it must have its fans.

I hope this show is actually headed toward "none of the above, we all need to deal with our issues" as the resolution, but I never predict a show will do something unusual, because I'd rather celebrate if they do than be disappointed when they don't.

I agree with this:

I think part of it is the assumption that happy people/ happy relationships are boring.... which is why they kill off love interests or bring in the love triangle etc... 

I get we need to have stuff happen that drives the story and conflict/drama... and relationship drama like this it the easy way to do it instead of more personal/subtle conflict.

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18 minutes ago, TAG42481 said:

Did I miss something?  I thought we've been discussing in the forums that Zoey isn't willing to date Max because she was his boss.  She never told him that, right?  So if she isn't his boss anymore, boom, problem solved.

The forum has been discussing it, but Zoey and Max sure haven't. Zoey's main objection to dating Max is that if things go south, they'll no longer be friends. 

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6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't think Simon actually broke up with Jessica at work. She reached for his hand in the elevator at the end of the song so I think they're now in the phase of their relationship where they know things are fucked up and that they are going to break up but neither of them wants to actually say that out loud and officially end things.

I didn't notice that, but I think it makes sense. Most of us know it's coming before we say it out loud. Maybe there'll be a rendition of Gladys Knight's Neither One Of Us (Wants To Be The First To Say Goodbye) coming up.

6 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I have a “don’t shit where you eat” rule. It’s one thing to date someone at your company that you don’t work directly with, especially if the company is big, because you don’t have to see them if things go south. But dating people you work directly with can get very messy, not just for the couple but for the people who have to work with them. Dating people who report to you is REALLY messy, especially for the rest of the team. You can’t objectively manage someone you’re dating. There is no reason for Max not to take that job.

I have the rule too. The only time I broke it was when the guy (now my husband of 30+ years) was a on a temporary contract where I worked.

5 hours ago, Dani said:

The thing that pisses me off the most is that both Simon and Max know what she is going through at home. What she needs is a friend not someone who is going to pressure her for answers when she is clearly struggling to function. Her best friend is essentially abandoning her when she needs him the most

This. Especially Max, who has been to her parents' home and helped out, but also Simon. Jeez, give the woman some space. I was startled that Max actually started talking about it.

4 hours ago, Dani said:

It’s actually proving that Zoey was right to be hesitant. If their friendship can’t survive this it wouldn’t survive a breakup.

Indeed.

2 hours ago, Captain Asshat said:

I was so happy they didn't subtitle "Fight Song." No, I don't know all the lyrics, but it didn't matter. I know the song, and the actors signed and danced it so well, that the emotion got through.

Since "this is my fight song" is literally the only lyric I know, I did kind of want some subtitles. But it was beautiful nonetheless.

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Sound of Silence is always beautiful song, but that duet was awesome... 

I did also really enjoy the Fight Song performance, and bringing in more about Howie and his daughter seemed to fit with the story well.

 

I remember Sounds of Silence was being played on the radio - it is plural not singular.   That duet was gorgeous.  Since I am so old, I obviously didn't recognize Fight Song but I knew I would find it here.  I don't know the lyrics or story behind the song, and although I understand the directorial reason for making it a wordless sign dance, and I could get the general gist of what the daughter was communicating, I did feel like I was left out for few minutes there.

Are there any women on this writing team?   Ava is another terrifying woman who made the <sarcasm>horrible mistake</end sarcasm> of being in a position of authority. And the stereotypical Asian wife, who happily we don't see too much.  I can only imagine a room full of young men who aren't too - what is the word? - woke.

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43 minutes ago, Mermaid Under said:

I don't know the lyrics or story behind the song, and although I understand the directorial reason for making it a wordless sign dance, and I could get the general gist of what the daughter was communicating, I did feel like I was left out for few minutes there.

I actually think this is a good thing, sorry. So often deaf or blind people are left out of things that we take for granted. To have a song done entirely in ASL that wasn't subtitled worked for me. We are "left out" for a few minutes, but that is their entire life. This was a moment for the daughter, and it stayed a moment for her. Having subtitles (or voices even) would have taken away from that, especially with the song choice.

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1 hour ago, TAG42481 said:

Did I miss something?  I thought we've been discussing in the forums that Zoey isn't willing to date Max because she was his boss.  She never told him that, right?  So if she isn't his boss anymore, boom, problem solved.

It was mentioned very briefly, in passing, in maybe the first or second episode. That was more about their friendship, though, and how they shouldn't be as friendly since she's his boss. She was freaking out about her powers and he asked if that imbalance was why.

4 hours ago, HighHopes said:

I think my issue with the show is how they are (or maybe it's just the fan reaction?) are presenting Max's behaviour as understandable and that we should root for him but Simon's behaviour makes him the Absolute Worst.

I don't think we're supposed to see Simon as the Absolute Worst; I think the show has been fairly nuanced about him. We aren't supposed to approve of what he's doing, but I know I can at least see how everything happened. It's not good, but it's human.

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I don't like Zoey with Simon at all. They only have a "connection" because of Zoey's new found power. Because she heard him sing, otherwise they never would have had this relationship. I find it disingenuous on her part. Plus the fact that she has told Max of her power but not Simon. If they are trying to portray Zoey as pro female, they blew it. That ship has sailed. She should have turned away from Simon and never looked back once she found out he was in a relationship. I don't care about Max either. I don't think they've built up either relationship well at this point to care about any of them. She should stay single or find someone who she doesn't work with. 

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