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S05.E08: Famous Last Words

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The Frasers must deal with the aftermath of the Battle of Alamance Creek.

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So no fakeout, but of course Roger survived.

I did not like the way they filmed the flashbacks. For a serious issue of deep trauma, I didn’t think it worked with the slapstick vibe of silent film. Richard Rankin’s portrayal of Roger’s trauma was superb however. 

Young Ian is back, looking not so young anymore! The scenes with Ian and Roger were the best part of the episode. Two of the best actors in this. Along with Marsali; never enough Marsali. 

One whole line for Fergus this week, they’re going to spoil us. 

 

Edited by ferjy
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I hated the silent picture device! 
 

I hate the way they are treating Fergus. I actually might not continue to next season because of it. Why not just kill him if they won’t give him any lines? It’s even worse now that Ian is back. They could have easily had him say something at dinner . Plus his history of having been raped and had his hand cut off would have been useful in this discussion of trauma. I am actually quite annoyed by this situation.

Sophie Skelton has a lovely voice. is this the first time we’ve heard her sing?

Nice to see Ian. I am guessing he witnessed some sort of massacre by his Mohawk family. 

Kinda tactless of Marsali to continue tarot after getting the hanged man.

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ROLLO!!!!!!

I loved that while everyone was tiptoeing around Roger and Ian, Marsali was her usual self and didn't treat them any differently. It was great to see her coax a laconic Ian into talking by just sitting down next to him on the porch and having a pretty one sided conversation with him until he was ready to start talking. He didn't say a ton, but he seemed a lot less reluctant than when Jamie was talking to him the night before.

Poor Bree - months of being supportive and trying to gently encourage her husband to say something, ANYTHING. She must have the patience of a saint.

Lord John continues to be the best.

It did kind of crack me up that Ian and Roger, the two people in the family who clearly don't want to talk to anyone about what happened to them, got sent off together. All the makings of a self made silent retreat! I did like that once it was just the two of them, Ian started talking more. It was probably easier since he knew Roger wouldn't ask him any questions.

Somehow Roger managed to keep Bree's paper airplane uncrumpled or bent while stomping around 5000 acres. I know it was supposed to be all moving and symbolic when he flew it off the side of a mountain but all I could think was LITTERBUG!

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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I liked the silent movie juxtapositioned with Roger's silence. He lost a big part of himself because of that trauma, and viewing it as a silent movie replay emphasized that he had no voice.  I thought it was a great choice. If they had wanted to make it camp, they would have speeded up the film and heightened the makeup.  All they did was show it in black and white with subtitles. 

One of my favorite episodes, along with last week's.  Really enjoyed the storytelling in this week's show. Once again, the show has become a must see for me and I can't wait til next week.  

 

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This episode was weird for me.

I didn't care for the silent movie used for the flashback. That style of filmmaking always makes me think of comedy, so using it as a visual for PTSD felt off. 

Are we going to talk about how Jemmy is aging in dog years? Marsali is still pregnant but he's running and talking? Next episode he'll be married with kids.

Speaking of which, not getting the full story on Ian's time with the Mohawk and his wife was excruciating. I just wanted to shout "Talk, dammit!." Everyone being so cagey was driving me bonkers. 

And yes, Fergus needed a bigger role in all of this. He grew up with Ian and would've been closer to him than anyone, minus Jamie. Seeing his character reduced to smoldering looks and the occasional one-liner is such a disservice. 

 

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47 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Are we going to talk about how Jemmy is aging in dog years? Marsali is still pregnant but he's running and talking? Next episode he'll be married with kids.

 

I think that this is Marsali’s third pregnancy. We previously saw her second pregnancy 

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I actually liked Roger's opening scene in the classroom because it showed the character is actually good at something. I'm not particularly invested in Roger and Bree, but the constant harping on how he can't hunt, shoot, whatever 'manly' thing Jamie is awesome at because he's the best at everything, is grating.

They joked around about starting a university, but there's absolutely no reason he can't, and he's qualified to do it. It's annoying he's being shoved into something he's not when he could easily find gainful work in a city. 

I've said it plenty of times, but I always stop for the theme song. I love the shot of the bison. It's just perfect. 

Huh. I was actually surprised it was Roger hanging. I figured like the rest of you that it was someone else. I actually liked that they went there. 

I think the show is missing out by not flash forwarding enough. 

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Jocasta singing - as if I didn't like the actor enough already - swoon. 

You may not *need* land, Bree, but you can charge rent on it and make some serious money. It's 1772 or whatever, get some perspective. 

Also Jamie, Roger is working on the house. Can you not be so pissy about everything he's doing. 

I'm leaning toward liking the silent film device. I'll give them credit for trying a little something creative. It's a time travel show (sort of) you can do things like that. 

I tend to think that most tv is over-written in terms of tons of dialogue. Actors can act whether I like the characters or not. Let them do their job. So I liked the actor not talking. He was hung from a tree and only survived because his mother in law is from 1969. I didn't need anyone to tell me he's needs some therapy. I think he did a great job. I'd love some behind the scenes with him and the director how they crafted it all. 

Also Bree, get a fucking grip. Claire, *the war veteran*, correctly understands what ptsd is. How about not harping on Roger to actually talk? Given what he's been through it's probably good that's really it. That's great you were able to deal with your trauma (which was not your fault at all in any way) but it's Roger's fault he can't deal with it the same, so, please do yell at him more. 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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12 hours ago, nara said:

Kinda tactless of Marsali to continue tarot after getting the hanged man.

Also kind of obtuse on the show's part. The hanged man got hanged and gained wisdom. 

I'm amazed Ian could find their house. I mean, sure, I got around before google maps, but there were actual signs posted on the road. 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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12 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Also kind of obtuse on the show's part. The hanged man got hanged and gained wisdom. 

I'm amazed Ian could find their house. I mean, sure, I got around before google maps, but there were actual signs posted on the road. 

Ian helped Jamie survey Fraser Ridge last season for protecting the legal title, so he would know how to get back to the cabin, but he ran into Jamie Claire and Jemmie and killed the boar.

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I'm not calling bs. Just making a jovial quip. 

Them singing over the credits was cute af, but wow nursery rhymes are dark.

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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19 hours ago, ferjy said:

Young Ian is back, looking not so young anymore! The scenes with Ian and Roger were the best part of the episode. Two of the best actors in this. Along with Marsali; never enough Marsali. 

One whole line for Fergus this week, they’re going to spoil us. 

Richard Rankin is quite a fine actor and this episode really highlighted it. 
 

I liked that Marsali spoke of how she missed her Mom and sister. I’m sure she thinks about them. Making the choice to marry Fergus and go the Americas was a huge decision, even with a husband and kids it’s only natural to think of her Mom and sister. 
 

Fergus should have more of a storyline than he’s been given. I want Cesar (the actor that plays him) to keep getting a full time paycheck🤣

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

She’s pregnant again. 

No I think this is the same pregnancy. She was visibly showing when the battle happened and 3 months later she’s very large and the child almost due- that’s the same pregnancy. This is her third child with Fergus. 

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2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

This episode was weird for me.

Speaking of which, not getting the full story on Ian's time with the Mohawk and his wife was excruciating. I just wanted to shout "Talk, dammit!." Everyone being so cagey was driving me bonkers. 

And yes, Fergus needed a bigger role in all of this. He grew up with Ian and would've been closer to him than anyone, minus Jamie. Seeing his character reduced to smoldering looks and the occasional one-liner is such a disservice. 

 

Not sure I liked it either. It was such a depressing episode! I was so excited Ian was back, but he's not the old Ian, (which brought much needed joy to season 4). I hoped he'd bring back a wife! Guess not. Fergus needs more than 1 line per episode! Perhaps we will see Ian & Fergus in an upcoming episode? Roger's time in the 1700's has sucked, I think I would have been heading back to 1970something, with or without the wife & kid! I know I say that I understand Claire going back, because come on- that is where she belongs, she is capable, & resilient. I hope he finds success soon. Rik gets the actor of the week award! 

Edited by Cdh20 · Reason: adding a thought!
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13 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Richard Rankin is quite a fine actor and this episode really highlighted it. 
 

I liked that Marsali spoke of how she missed her Mom and sister. I’m sure she thinks about them. Making the choice to marry Fergus and go the Americas was a huge decision, even with a husband and kids it’s only natural to think of her Mom and sister. 
 

Fergus should have more of a storyline than he’s been given. I want Cesar (the actor that plays him) to keep getting a full time paycheck🤣

No I think this is the same pregnancy. She was visibly showing when the battle happened and 3 months later she’s very large and the child almost due- that’s the same pregnancy. This is her third child with Fergus. 

I liked that Marsali missed her ma & sister but I love that she loves this family she has now! 

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I have no concept of time on this show (to be fair, I don't know that the show has a concept of time).

I keep thinking Ian lost a child, with his comment to Marsali about bairns, but I have no idea if enough time has passed to make that a possibility. 

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1 minute ago, sab85 said:

I have no concept of time on this show (to be fair, I don't know that the show has a concept of time).

I keep thinking Ian lost a child, with his comment to Marsali about bairns, but I have no idea if enough time has passed to make that a possibility. 

I think Ian has been gone for 12-18 months

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41 minutes ago, sab85 said:

I have no concept of time on this show (to be fair, I don't know that the show has a concept of time).

I keep thinking Ian lost a child, with his comment to Marsali about bairns, but I have no idea if enough time has passed to make that a possibility. 

The timeline is really wonky.  In S4, Ian was left with the Mohawk right before Brianna gave birth. Assuming Jem is around two and a half, that would leave enough time to marry and have a child. 

 

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We know from 607 that the battle of Alamanac was in 1771, and referencing Jamie’s 50th birthday it was in May. The PTSD scenes shown began three months later, but not all in a day, with Aunt Jocasta and Lord John having both visited. So young Ian likely returns in the autumn of 1771.

The Fraser’s trip to rescue Roger took several months each way last season, And Roger took a detour on the return trip plus there are the events of this season before the battle. My educated guess given distances and times, is those events wow in 1769 to 1770. 

So I think Ian was with the Mohawk around two years.

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9 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

Roger's time in the 1700's has sucked, I think I would have been heading back to 1970something, with or without the wife & kid! I know I say that I understand Claire going back, because come on- that is where she belongs, she is capable, & resilient. I hope he finds success soon. Rik gets the actor of the week award! 

I keep thinking the same thing, how is Roger not insisting on going back after all he has lived through? The past has not been kind to him and the war is coming. I think their kid is old enough to tell them if he hears the stones' buzzing. Time to go!

 

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Initially, I was pulling a face at using a silent film motiff to illustrate Roger's obvious PTSD, but as the episode unfolded, I think it was a quite brilliant choice.

Someone going through the kind of trauma Roger experienced - literally almost losing his life - and losing his voice, tends to compartmentalize their trauma or make it something more palatable for their brain to comprehend.

He used his memories of the silent film festival he went to with Bree in the then-present to help shape and massage the near-death so he could try to begin to cope with what happened.

And as time wore on, more details appeared in that silent film "footage" (memory) until eventually, as he became more distanced but still traumatized from the immediacy and began to find his voice again, the film changed from its initial incarnation as silent and black and white to a very vivid film with sound and color

It was only then that that he really, truly began to process all that had happened and might have happened and began the real unpacking that it takes to heal (not get over) from something of this magnitude.

I absolutely loved seeing Ian back again. He has been missed. He was exactly the perfect person to be paired with Roger on the surveying expedition. One of my favorite moments of the entire series was when Roger, correctly deducing that Ian was suicidal, having brought himself back from the brink of that cliff and the longing to heave himself over it, kicked that can of hemlock off of the fire. 

I enjoyed Marsali's conversation with Ian and agree that her talking to Ian like she always has made him relax and open a tiny crack. I still want to know what the hell happened during his time with the Mohawk. And I want more of Fergus dammit!

Elsewhere, loved Jocasta's song for her departed lover, Murtagh. She has a lovely voice as does Bree.

Speaking of Bree, Sophie continues to grow on me, she has ever since the rape episode and its aftermath. I could feel the desperation in her voice as she pleaded with Roger to come back to her. And her reminder that she, too, went through hell and wanted to die (and sometimes still does). 

I also enjoyed the cuteness of Claire and Jamie playing hide and seek with Jem.

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And Claire and Jamie getting ready for bed. 

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Sometimes, it's the quiet moments that really resonate.

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11 hours ago, sab85 said:

I have no concept of time on this show (to be fair, I don't know that the show has a concept of time).

I noticed too, but they have 'real life' things happening, like the battle last week to fix points in time on the show, so I thought it was deliberate on the show's part. 

3 hours ago, Lola82 said:

I keep thinking the same thing, how is Roger not insisting on going back after all he has lived through? The past has not been kind to him and the war is coming. I think their kid is old enough to tell them if he hears the stones' buzzing. Time to go!

I'd give him a little slack for a few months because, but I would think he's got to bring up the issue. At the least, just confirm whether the child can hear the stones because that's going to inform the decisions. If he's not going back (forward), I'd like to see him take some agency and try to find gainful employment (opening a school, whatever). 

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12 hours ago, sab85 said:

I have no concept of time on this show (to be fair, I don't know that the show has a concept of time).

I keep thinking Ian lost a child, with his comment to Marsali about bairns, but I have no idea if enough time has passed to make that a possibility. 

Yes enough time has passed. When Ian went to live with the Mohawk Brianna was in the last days of her pregnancy. That baby is now 18months-2yrs old. From Ian’s words I too thought maybe he fell in love and lost a wife/child in the birth. He then went on to tell Roger than he fell in love, maybe she had to marry someone else (cause he said she isn’t dead but lost to him). 

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16 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm not calling bs. Just making a jovial quip. 

Them singing over the credits was cute af, but wow nursery rhymes are dark.

lol Or lullabies. Just listen to the lyrics to Rock-a-Bye Baby. Dollars to doughnuts it was written by a parent who was up all night with their sweet little devil for the past week. 😀

 

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On 4/12/2020 at 6:54 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Somehow Roger managed to keep Bree's paper airplane uncrumpled or bent while stomping around 5000 acres. I know it was supposed to be all moving and symbolic when he flew it off the side of a mountain but all I could think was LITTERBUG!

And all I could think when she was making the paper airplane was that the sheet of paper looked way too much like your typical 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of printer/copier paper from an office supply store.

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3 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

And all I could think when she was making the paper airplane was that the sheet of paper looked way too much like your typical 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of printer/copier paper from an office supply store.

I thought that too!!!

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I really like the opening music this season.  McCreary does an excellent job with the music.  I liked the device of using a silent movie for the flashbacks.  

Honestly, for awhile I thought Claire was going to be running an insane asylum for Roger and Ian.  Glad Roger saved Ian from himself, and in doing so, helped himself begin to heal.  Like others must have, I first thought Roger had taken the hemlock to use.

Oh My Darling Clementine took me out of the time period.  The gold rush of 1849 is a good 75 years or so after the colonial period.  Did like the sweaters for jumpers exchange.

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On 4/12/2020 at 9:54 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Poor Bree - months of being supportive and trying to gently encourage her husband to say something, ANYTHING. She must have the patience of a saint.

Five minutes with that nimrod, pathetic Roger and ANYONE is a saint. I am so bummed he walked out of his ordeal. Ugh.

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On 4/19/2020 at 11:49 AM, DoctorAtomic said:

Yes, but Bree and Roger would know the song from growing up in the 20th century. 

I’d love it if someone overheard the song and asked “what’s a forty-niner?” 

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This episode was full of awkward moments, between Roger's PTSD and Ian's somber return.  Especially that dinner.  Yikes.  Claire was quite perceptive in this episode, subtly warning the others not to push Ian too much.

The silent movie replay felt like a gimmick at the beginning, but it was an interesting way to show the moments replaying in Roger's mind and how traumatizing it was from his POV.  I could understand how Brianna felt frustrated, though, with him moping for months.  The actors who played Ian and Roger did a great job with their silent acting, though it was a bit difficult to watch.

I hope Roger gets his voice back fully too.  He has a really good singing voice.

I can't believe how much I like Marsali now, considering she was such a pill at the beginning, plus being the daughter of that witch accuser.  

How could Roger recognize the poisonous herbs and how could he even see from that distance Ian was boiling them?

I think Ian felt like he belonged with the Mohawk, so I am guessing he got banished somehow.  Hopefully, with time, we will get an aspect of the talkative free-spirited Ian back.  He felt like a totally different person.

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7 hours ago, Camera One said:

This episode was full of awkward moments, between Roger's PTSD and Ian's somber return.  Especially that dinner.  Yikes.  Claire was quite perceptive in this episode, subtly warning the others not to push Ian too much.

The silent movie replay felt like a gimmick at the beginning, but it was an interesting way to show the moments replaying in Roger's mind and how traumatizing it was from his POV.  I could understand how Brianna felt frustrated, though, with him moping for months.  The actors who played Ian and Roger did a great job with their silent acting, though it was a bit difficult to watch.

I hope Roger gets his voice back fully too.  He has a really good singing voice.

I can't believe how much I like Marsali now, considering she was such a pill at the beginning, plus being the daughter of that witch accuser.  

How could Roger recognize the poisonous herbs and how could he even see from that distance Ian was boiling them?

I think Ian felt like he belonged with the Mohawk, so I am guessing he got banished somehow.  Hopefully, with time, we will get an aspect of the talkative free-spirited Ian back.  He felt like a totally different person.

I knew you would come around to Marsali, we all have, after a rough start. 

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This was so hard to watch. Like some upthread, I was torn with the silent movie trope standing in for Roger's PTSD, but over the course of the episode it made sense. Horrible to watch, understandable how difficult it was for him to even try to recover, but I'm also surprised that Claire didn't do more talk therapy with him. She would have taken some courses about mental health, and she had a great bedside manner in her own time, so I'm just surprised that given they're both from the same time, she wouldn't have done therapy with him. I liked the scene where Roger is standing at the edge of the cliffs and reliving his trauma again, but now it's in color, and it's sort of like taking his PTSD and owning in it the light of day in full color, and then sending it away with the paper airplane. Not really that easy, but it seems like a long time had passed so...

Ian! Rollo! But there's trouble there a/brewin', aye? What's up with Ian, and why didn't anyone at first take much notice of his frown and depressed demeanor?! I mean at dinner they're all acting like 'Oh, hi Ian, back from your walk about are ye?' rather than, 'Jesus H. Christ man! How ARE you? Tell us everything!!!' It was sort of odd to me and came across like he'd just sauntered in from a trip to town, rather than he'd been gone like TWO YEARS living with the Mohawks! I suspected immediately when he said he wasn't going back, that there was a woman involved, maybe he lost a wife and child perhaps, as some others upthread had said? But when he admitted she was still alive but lost to him, I figured he'd fallen deeply in love with a Mohawk woman, and they'd been close but she eventually decided to bed another man, which we've been told was the custom. So perhaps even though Ian felt like he belonged with the Mohawk, he's still a nice, fairly innocent Scottish lad from Lallybroch who probably was living a love life based on his Scottish notion of love and fidelity, whilst his wife/lover was a Mohawk living her life as she knew it. I can see how that would devastate the lad. It was heartbreaking to see him trying to kill himself with the Hemlock, but how on early did Roger know he was about to do that? I guess tying up Rollo so he couldn't follow was a sign that something bad was going to happen and Ian didn't want Rollo to come and help him, or let Roger know something was happening. That whole scene was really heartbreaking since we've never really seen Ian grappling with something so heavy before. I liked those two bonding over wanting to die in order to make the pain stop. And I loved the exposition from Ian about the plane - it flies like a bird but it doesna sing - and the explanation about how he sometimes felt left out because he couldn't always understand the Mohawk so he'd go off and listen to the birds singing. It also was a nice reference to Roger being able to exist/fly, but unable to talk/sing. Nice Show... And when Roger woke from the nightmare and Ian said, 'Wherever you thought you were, we're both still here..." That was just a lovely moment and spoke to so many in this cast of characters - the time travelers, Jamie, Ian...They're all of them at times thinking there one place but they're all still there, together.  Random thought: I'm thinking Ian's bead bracelet is either a wedding gift, sort of like a Mohawk wedding ring, or it was something given to him to denote he's part of the community forever.

Loved Marsali's talking about missing her sister Joanie, did she mention her wicked mother? But that she feels she belongs in 'this family' more. That was heartwarming and again I say, I canna believe how much I disliked the wee wench when first meeting her, and yet how much I adore her now! Team Margus/Fergali all the way!

One thing I didn't get was when Jamie finds Ian sleeping outside on the side porch and they're talking a bit, Ian says to Jamie, 'There are things ye keep hidden from others, you and Claire both..." I don't know exactly what he was referring to and my mind immediately went to him somehow finding out about the time travel, though I cannot imagine Ian wrapping his head around that one!

 

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On 2/20/2022 at 6:14 PM, gingerella said:

One thing I didn't get was when Jamie finds Ian sleeping outside on the side porch and they're talking a bit, Ian says to Jamie, 'There are things ye keep hidden from others, you and Claire both..." I don't know exactly what he was referring to and my mind immediately went to him somehow finding out about the time travel, though I cannot imagine Ian wrapping his head around that one!

He meant all the times they clearly knew more than they were saying or had a secret between them (because of the time travel), he just doesn't know why or how.

.

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18 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

He meant all the times they clearly knew more than they were saying or had a secret between them (because of the time travel), he just doesn't know why or how.

.

Yes but I also felt he was referring to himself as well. As in there were things from his life with the Mohawk that he sister want to talk about, just like J&C had their secrets they kept hidden from others. 

It struck me how much more mature Ian is now. When they left gom with the Mohawk he was still this eager kid who was excited to live with the Indians, but he went through some life shit and he's definitely not that wide eyed little kid anymore. 

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1 hour ago, gingerella said:

Yes but I also felt he was referring to himself as well. As in there were things from his life with the Mohawk that he sister want to talk about, just like J&C had their secrets they kept hidden from others.

I take it Autocorrect turned "didn't" into "sister". Yes, he said as much.

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

It struck me how much more mature Ian is now. When they left gom with the Mohawk he was still this eager kid who was excited to live with the Indians, but he went through some life shit and he's definitely not that wide eyed little kid anymore. 

Indeed.

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On 2/20/2022 at 6:14 PM, gingerella said:

Like some upthread, I was torn with the silent movie trope standing in for Roger's PTSD, but over the course of the episode it made sense.

The first time I watched the episode, I had a very strong negative reaction to it.  I'm critical of large swaths of DG's writing, but this particular storyline was something she wrote really well, so I think it was jarring to not see it portrayed the same way, particularly from Jamie's perspective.  This was my second time through, and the silent movie didn't bother me as much, and I thought it was made sense for the most part.  

I've mentioned numerous times that I can't handle Bri and Roger, so the opening scene was so meh to me.  I was frustrated with her frustration with him, for not healing, not trying hard enough, but I wonder if I'm just more annoyed with the actress than the character...?  

On 2/20/2022 at 6:14 PM, gingerella said:

Ian! Rollo!

Wooo!!!  John Bell is back, y'all!  Now, can we schedule an Ian, Fergus, Marsali road trip?

On 2/20/2022 at 6:14 PM, gingerella said:

And I loved the exposition from Ian about the plane - it flies like a bird but it doesna sing - and the explanation about how he sometimes felt left out because he couldn't always understand the Mohawk so he'd go off and listen to the birds singing. It also was a nice reference to Roger being able to exist/fly, but unable to talk/sing. Nice Show...

This was lovely.  Though, as someone said upthread, couldn't the props department find a piece of parchment somewhere?

On 2/22/2022 at 6:54 PM, gingerella said:

It struck me how much more mature Ian is now. When they left gom with the Mohawk he was still this eager kid who was excited to live with the Indians, but he went through some life shit and he's definitely not that wide eyed little kid anymore. 

I love Ian's story, so I hope they expand it more and give this guy some extra screen time!

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