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S10.E13: Secrets and Lies

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Yeah, Mindy!!! You go girl! Throw a party!  Lord knows you have reason to celebrate! Bye-bye Zatch!

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Just now, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Mindy, Zach was never *with* you in the first place.  What, exactly, are you celebrating?

Yeah, I agree. He told her early on he wasn't attracted to her, gave her the responsibility to do something about it, then continued to pull away yet she kept at him like a puppy wanting another treat. Sad, really. Hope she did learn from it though.

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Mindy is a better person than I. If my experience on this show were anything like hers, I'd be pissed.

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I’m watching the show and thinking ..wow..the world was so pure and innocent back then. I wonder if it will ever be the same and how long from now 

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8 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

Mindy is having a divorce party, good for her! Hope Vanessa isn’t there, she’s probably on a date with Zack. 

Lindsay. Tall, busty blonde at the wedding. 

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21 minutes ago, gladitsover said:

Yes, and it should never be the job of a spouse to "fix" the other person. Work on yourself before you get married!

There must have been slim pickings during the interviews.  This bunch was the worst.  Whoever picked them should be fired.

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46 minutes ago, Doublemint said:

I don't think Michael's coming from an evil spot, he's damaged and is aware of the problem, but not ready to be a husband - he might be great if he works all this out.

Maybe but he has a lot of issues to work out.

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2 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Lindsay. Tall, busty blonde at the wedding. 

You mean the tall frumpy blonde?

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3 hours ago, MyTwoCents said:

You mean the tall frumpy blonde?

The Anti-Mindy.....

Don’t let the screen door hit on your way out Zach..you big bag of dicks....

Edited by humbleopinion
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18 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Lindsay. Tall, busty blonde at the wedding. 

Yes, thank you, forgot her name was Lindsay. 

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1 hour ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Jessica should have kept mum. Let the man speak the words first.

Blah to this. Talk that talk. Feel how you feel. Express yourself. Even if the other person isn't totally there. He's showing through his actions and that's what matters most. 

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1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

I wonder why Brandon doesn't drive?

Some people just don't drive. I don't personally wonder. People feel less and inclined to drive these days with Uber and stuff like that. I see it at work all the time.

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Does anyone else want to shake Mindy because she doesn’t seem mad at her “friend “ Lindsay at all ? While she’s going on about Zach who , let’s face it , was never gonna be into her or say yes on decision day .. I kept thinking about how much I wanted Mindy to tell her friend off , yet she didn’t say a bad word about her . The fact that she was talking to him at all behind my back would have made me end the friendship . 

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1 hour ago, endure said:

That's the problem with lying - 'the details'........ and he's no rocket scientist!

I know there is usually a lot of psychological details involved but I can never understand people who habitually lie or cheat. Beyond the obvious moral issues, it just feels so tiresome. It's like another job. Fabricating stories, multiple phones, hiding out so you don't get busted, developing alibis? That's another full time job. 

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Mindy is a woman of substance and character. She is way too good for Zatch, who’s superficial and lies!

32 minutes ago, Silver Bells said:

There must have been slim pickings during the interviews.  This bunch was the worst.  Whoever picked them should be fired.

They need a better BS detector for people like Michael and Zatch

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Zach, Michael and Brandon:  all are definitely scraps from the very bottom of the barrel.

Michael seemed to be on the verge of some kind of break.  Good thing they weren’t left alone much.  Meka  could have had a good lawsuit.  Maybe still could for emotion distress or something.  He was scary weird.

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It does seem that they make do with the top of the bottom of the barrel. If there aren’t enough suitable applicants than maybe that’s a sign they need to close up shop. Of course, I would be bummed but you have to wonder after so many seasons of terrible matches if fewer people want to subject themselves to the constant scrutiny of the public and being haphazardly matched unless they’re in the “wrong reasons” category.  

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On 3/25/2020 at 10:35 PM, Jaclyn88 said:

Does anyone else want to shake Mindy because she doesn’t seem mad at her “friend “ Lindsay at all ? While she’s going on about Zach who , let’s face it , was never gonna be into her or say yes on decision day .. I kept thinking about how much I wanted Mindy to tell her friend off , yet she didn’t say a bad word about her . The fact that she was talking to him at all behind my back would have made me end the friendship . 

She probably just isn't the type to hold a lot of hate or anger in her heart. She has verbally said how pissed off she is about her friend. But, Zach is the one gaslighting her and hurting her for weeks on end. 

I will say that I have a few things I loved this week.

I loved that Brandon and Taylor both acted like regular human beings for a change.

I loved seeing Meka being able to just let her guard down. She has been angry for a while now and it's been justified. It's good to just see her have a normal conversation and discussion for a change. No scowl except for brussel sprouts. And I'm with her on that one.

Please no one spend time being mad about Jessica/Austin and the love or travel thing. He will say I love you at the end of the 8 weeks. This is a non issue. They will make the travel work.

I'm sure Mindy's friend that is always dressed down is probably the type that doesn't do make up and likes being comfortable. I don't care. She can wear what she wants. So can Mindy.

Michael needed therapy not a marriage. I think he's a good dude with serious issues.

 

Edited by Racj82
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14 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

It does seem that they make do with the top of the bottom of the barrel. If there aren’t enough suitable applicants than maybe that’s a sign they need to close up shop. Of course, I would be bummed but you have to wonder after so many seasons of terrible matches if fewer people want to subject themselves to the constant scrutiny of the public and being haphazardly matched unless they’re in the “wrong reasons” category.  

No, I put part of this on the producers. I'm sure they have a tons of applicant that would make great spouses. But, those people also are too short, want a spouse outside of their race, obese and a bunch of other things that don't matter but do to producers. 

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33 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Does anyone else want to shake Mindy because she doesn’t seem mad at her “friend “ Lindsay at all ? While she’s going on about Zach who , let’s face it , was never gonna be into her or say yes on decision day .. I kept thinking about how much I wanted Mindy to tell her friend off , yet she didn’t say a bad word about her . The fact that she was talking to him at all behind my back would have made me end the friendship . 

I expected Lindsay to show up at her party. 

23 minutes ago, VagabondDays said:

Derek is definitely immature, but Katie is a legit TODDLER.  What is with her pouting about Derek’s other dates?  She was jealous.  Ok.  But after puberty, you don’t act like that.  She’s awful and he deserves — at the very least — a non-turtle-faced ADULT for a wife.

Right???? She’s hung up on her ex.  Who TF is she to be jealous???

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1 hour ago, Straycat80 said:

Am I the only one watching the duck walking on the beach behind Jessica and Austin because them reading to each other is so boring? 

Okay, so I read the comments in this thread before I watched it on DVR (it makes it more entertaining hearing everyone's comments in my head as I watch). Well that scene was so boring to me, the only thing keeping me watching was the anticipation of the duck. lol

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3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I don’t know what Michael was trying to pull, but I’ve never seen an offer letter that estimated your take-home after taxes and deductions. It says your annual or your monthly or your hourly gross. I have estimated my take-home myself using payroll calculators, but that’s not the same thing AT ALL. Just tell the damn truth about how much you make! I was 100% Team Meka in that moment.

Exactly!  I have a weirdo, known liar facebook friend who lives in another state - she just "forwarded"  me a letter written by a "School district director" from a school district near me, informing his district that a student has been tested positive for corona virus.  Aside from the fact that in this state they are called "superintendents" rather than "directors" - it was written in a word document, no letterhead, in comic sans.  Being a liar is one thing but this much trouble to create a lie?  Run for the hills, Meka!

 

3 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

He & Michael both give me a headache.

Here's a fun idea for a 30 minute show:  Put Zach and Michael together and tell them that they are to explain to each other why their marriages failed 😄  I kind of like Michael even though I wouldn't be married to him for any money; Zach is such a fucking tool I can't stand it.

2 hours ago, gladitsover said:

Michael is using his adoption by his grandmother as an excuse to get out of being responsible for his lying and other behavior.

I'm going to guess he lost the job offer due to his lying.

I'm guessing he was lying about said job offer 😌

1 hour ago, Adeejay said:

Perhaps someone should tell Jessica that you “can’t hurry love”, it must come naturally.  While Austin appears to really like Jessica, it’s clear that something is holding him back.  I can’t help but wonder if he finds her bossy.

IMO that something is a producer.  After Gregg and Deonna, Bobby and Danielle, I think TPTB decided in our egalitarian society that it was the woman's turn to twist in the wind and wait for the elusive "walls" to come down!

1 hour ago, configdotsys said:

I was a little confused with the letter. I get an offer letter yearly and it says, "Your pay will be x..." and at the bottom of the letter is a list of benefits that comes with the job. Was Michael suggesting that that letter had more information on it? 

Yes - supposedly the letter broke down what his net pay would be after taxes.  Which is why Meka asked how they would know that.

1 hour ago, VagabondDays said:

Derek is definitely immature, but Katie is a legit TODDLER.  What is with her pouting about Derek’s other dates?  She was jealous.  Ok.  But after puberty, you don’t act like that.  She’s awful and he deserves — at the very least — a non-turtle-faced ADULT for a wife.

I don't even think Derek is that immature - yes he apparently announces when he's going to poop, but other than that he seems to have a good job, work at it, understood the importance of putting her on his insurance - and followed through on it!  Enjoying creating bucket lists of odd things and crossing them off just seems fun to me, and IMO Katie just wants him mooning over her or sleeping.  What she says to him in the preview really shows that she thinks she's too cool for him, and is upset that he doesn't get it 😡

Free Derek!

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1 hour ago, pinky33 said:

Okay, so I read the comments in this thread before I watched it on DVR (it makes it more entertaining hearing everyone's comments in my head as I watch). Well that scene was so boring to me, the only thing keeping me watching was the anticipation of the duck. lol

I know Jessica and Austin are the refuge they seek from the BS on this show. I'm so happy they are mature and get along. I have no interest in watching them.

Edited by Racj82
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2 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

The fact that Katie is a Mental Health Professional is very worrisome.

I believe Bobby said that on couples couch.

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2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Meka missed her calling.  I really think she should have gone into law enforcement, and she'd be brought in when any suspect needed to be questioned.  I guarantee they'd tell the truth just to end the torture and get her to shut the fuck up. 

Hahaha! Meka would get me to confess to a crime that occurred before I was even born! She's one badass lady! 

That said, sisters are doing it for themselves! Mindy tapped into her confidence and quiet strength. I really like that chick. 

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It is still on here, but I am reading these comments instead of watching the rest. First - RUN DEREK!!!! Don't look back! I cannot stand that Katie who thinks she is so cool and entitled. Derek seems like a great guy, but will never do anything right. Run far and run fast!

If this was the best Brandon and Taylor could do, then it's awful. Taylor's constant giggling over things that aren't funny, and I think they were both faking trying to act like normal people would act. I don't buy it.

Hooray for Mindy but I wish she could have gotten the dog. It was funny seeing Dr V's face when Zach insisted he had never lied to Mindy. He's a horrible narcissist.

I did feel bad when Jessica finally told Austin that she loved him and he didn't say it bak. We know he does, but I felt bad for her, especially on camera and with company. Probably producer driven.

I still can't understand half of what Michael says, but I wish Meka would have stood her ground and been done. There is no way he is emotionally/psychologically healthy enough to have been selected (recruited, no less) for this show.

Edited by Retired at last
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Go Meka! I don’t know how she’s put up with his lying craziness for this long. Repetitive and random lying is not a red flag it’s a huge honking red eighteen wheeler barreling down on you. He’s also a bad liar which is pathetic. If you’re going to be a liar at least learn your freaking trade and figure out how to do it. Michael is a loser liar. Meka needs to run away from him  

Mindy. Sigh. I want to be glad for her but I find her exhausting. Zach told her almost immediately he wasn’t attracted and then repeated it several times. She does seem to stay calm and even keeled. I wonder if she was more passionately emotional it would’ve made a difference? Nah, probably not. And Zach falls into the loser category too. He wants to be slick and sell that he’s cool and clever but his word salad mix of bumbling excuses and half truths just don’t cut it. If you’re going to be a sneaky butt learn that trade too. Dang the crap men are bad at their crap this season. 

Katie sucks. I’d say a lot more but I think I’d end up being mean. Really, really mean. I can’t stand her. Whiny baby girl child. If she’s this much of a drag about dreams now can you imagine in a few years? Ugh. What a bore. Derek deserves better. By a long, wide mile. 

I think Austin and Jess are this season’s non-drama couple and the producers are having to drum up something to show on air. Enter the love conversation. I have hope for them.

Screamy guy and bad wig (their names have escaped me) are boring. They are doomed. We all know it. I don’t care about them. The dog is pretty though. But c’mon he can do better than screamy guy as a hump date.  

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4 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Jessica should have kept mum. Let the man speak the words first.

They shouldn't have created an artificial tension for Austin. People do say I love you way too freely. He probably believes it means totally completed committed. He obviously loves her a lot.

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This will reveal me to be a horrible person, but I was so hoping Michael's sister was going to say, "What??  He told you he's adopted?"

 

5 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Why is Taylor driving Brandon around?  She talked about this in the Jamie 30 minutes.  Did he lose his license in a DWI?  Doesn't he have a car?  If no why?  Financial mismanagement?  No current job?

Did she say he doesn't drive, or that she's the one who drives when they're together?  When Mr. Outlier and I go somewhere, I pretty much always drive, even though he's the automobile enthusiast.  Well probably because he's an automobile enthusiast--I like my car trips more sedate, and am not shy about offering suggestions about driving when I'm the passenger. 

He's free to let 'er rip when I'm not with him.

I have wondered in the past if people who don't know us well might think he lost his license due to DWI.  And bristled that they never would think that about me if he was always doing the driving.

 

3 hours ago, gladitsover said:

I think Katie was shocked that Derek was cooler than her.

That list on the ice chest made him sound like a frat boy, which I don't necessarily equate with cool.  The advice about the apple cider to Santa was charming, though.

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I thought Dr. V doled out some good advice for the most part. I think she could've been a bit tougher on Michael, but I appreciated her holding Zach's feet to the fire.

I'm happy to see Brandon and Taylor getting along better. That's about all I have to say about them.

Jessica and Austin - they're super sweet. I hope Jess gets over her hangup over the "L" word. Austin has said and shown that he cares about her a lot, so she needs to let the verbalization go. He'll say it eventually. It was good that they had their first "fight" - it shows that they are solid and can compromise and give each other some latitude.

Katie and Derek - Katie continues to be a brat. I really don't know what Derek sees in her. She is very condescending and rude. It's like there's no pleasing her.

Meka and Michael - one step forward, two steps back. He so obviously lied about his salary, I don't blame Meka at all for being upset. On the one hand, I can sympathize with him because I grew up in a tough family situation and I learned to be a really good liar to avoid being punished constantly by my parents, and yes, some of that has carried over into my adult life. That sense of self-protection can be overwhelming, as is the need to avoid confrontation. That said, he still has to suck it up and be honest. The two of them should probably be in counseling.

Mindy - yay, I'm so glad to see she found her backbone and cut loose the dead weight that was Zach. That was hilarious the way Mills was all snuggled up with Mindy when she was telling Zach off. Smart doggie.

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Recap of next week's preview (or the second verse same as the first):

(Some of this is a repeat of last week's extended preview)

Pastor Cal voice over: "Next time..."

Outside shot of house in country; cut to inside - Derek and Katie are walking through the house, exploring. Derek: "Let's find the best room before everyone gets here."

Taylor and Meka, entering house. Everyone: "Hey!" Katie walking into the kitchen; Jessica and Meka hugging.

Pastor Cal: "With just over a week before Decision Day..."

Derek and Katie zooming in golf cart, Katie is driving. Derek: "Whooo-ooo-hoo!"

PC: "...our couples are set to embark on a final couples getaway."

Jessica and Austin, watching sunset, kissing. 

Derek and Katie in paddleboat, crossing a pond, laughing. Katie to selfie-cam: "On our couples retreat."

Couples sitting around dining table. Jessica: "I have told Austin I love him."  Everyone: "Awww!" Meka claps her hands. Austin looks embarrassed. Everyone toasting at the table: "Cheers!" They're eating homemade burritos.

Cut to night time, outside. Taylor to Brandon: "If you have a problem, then you should have said it to me all day today." She's standing up, Brandon's sitting in a lawn chair, rubbing his head, and holding a drink. Taylor: "I'm done with your [bleep]." Brandon: "Taylor, I mean you, -"  Taylor: "I'm done with your [bleep]." Brandon: "You haven't--" Taylor: "I'm done with your [bleep]."

Inside kitchen, Meka and Michael, talking. Meka: "It's obvious that you're not really feeling this. I just feel like, for tonight, it's probably best that we don't sleep in the same room." She sounds pretty subdued.

Michael, getting ready for bed alone, to selfie-cam: "It's making me feel unsure about our future as we move toward Decision Week, so it's definitely disappointing."

Everyone at the dining table. Taylor and Derek are sitting next to each other, laughing. Taylor: "Derek and I are always on the same page." Katie: "I'm gonna [bleep] throw up." (to Jessica and Austin).

Derek and Katie outside, at night. Derek: "I don't think I've done anything wrong!" Katie: "I've seen you at this point initiate conversations with girls, and you don't act like a loser or weirdo with everyone else." (Side note: Can she be any ruder?) Derek: "That's because I'm actually being myself!" Katie: "It's just with me." She's yelling now. "I am so [bleep] done!" She gets up and walks off.

(Now it gets weird - camera shows someone's back through a narrow window with open blinds. Tall person wearing hoodie with hood up so you can't see who it is, has back to window and is facing someone else, who is blocked from the camera by them. I think it's Brandon in the hoodie. Distorted voice: "Get off of me. Stop putting your hands on me. Like, get the [bleep] off me." Pretty sure it's Brandon saying this. Cut to Brandon, entering bedroom, looks like he's trying to get away from cameras. Cut to Taylor, moving away from the camera person in hallway. Taylor: "This is way too much." Cut to Brandon, with backpack, walking away from the house.)

 

 

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5 hours ago, configdotsys said:

I was a little confused with the letter. I get an offer letter yearly and it says, "Your pay will be x..." and at the bottom of the letter is a list of benefits that comes with the job. Was Michael suggesting that that letter had more information on it? 

I thought the letter listed a gross salary and then he showed her the net pay on his cell phone. It sounded like Meka recognized right away that there was no way that the offer letter's gross pay, minus typical deductions for taxes and all that stuff resulted in the piddling amount shown on Michael's cell phone.

Is that what happened there?

In the early seasons they used to give us numbers. I wish we could of seen the numbers because what Michael was saying made no sense.

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In the past, women posters have said if Katie doesn't want Derek, they'd take him.

Well how about:
-sneaks into the circus on dates to pet the elephants
-writes awesome poems, about life and finding solace in love

Any more takers?

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2 hours ago, MajorNelson said:

In the past, women posters have said if Katie doesn't want Derek, they'd take him.

Well how about:
-sneaks into the circus on dates to pet the elephants
-writes awesome poems, about life and finding solace in love

Any more takers?

Are you suggesting that the latter is equivalent in type to the former behavior? Because one could assume the former was when Derek was a younger scamp, but the latter has been the province of many a mature man.I

PSA: If one cannot recall the participants' names still, one need only do the erstwhile TWoP required routine of reading previous posts. 

Edited by LennieBriscoe
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8 hours ago, Racj82 said:

No, I put part of this on the producers. I'm sure they have a tons of applicant that would make great spouses. But, those people also are too short, want a spouse outside of their race, obese and a bunch of other things that don't matter but do to producers. 

I heard a thirdhand story (a podcast host said she got an email from someone whose friend applied) of someone who said she preferred to date Black men (she’s white) and the producers said it was a deal-breaker. And this is first and foremost a reality show. I’m sure the experts match from a pool of people presented to them by the producers, who pick them with the show in mind - that’s their job. It’s like how, for the most part, the cast of Love is Blind was conventionally attractive.

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11 hours ago, Ohwell said:
11 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Did he grow up in a city? My grandmother was a lifelong New Yorker and never learned to drive.

He said he grew up in DC.  So did I, but I still learned to drive.  It isn't quite like NYC where one assumes that most people don't drive.   

The keyword in the above post was "grandmother".  A lot of grandmothers never learned to drive regardless of where they came from.  I'm from NYC and 62 and I only know one person that never learned how to drive.  All of my New York friends except for that one person (and I have many) have driver's licenses even if they live in Manhattan and only drive on weekends.

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6 hours ago, gingerandcloves said:

Meka and Michael - one step forward, two steps back. He so obviously lied about his salary, I don't blame Meka at all for being upset. On the one hand, I can sympathize with him because I grew up in a tough family situation and I learned to be a really good liar to avoid being punished constantly by my parents, and yes, some of that has carried over into my adult life. That sense of self-protection can be overwhelming, as is the need to avoid confrontation. That said, he still has to suck it up and be honest. The two of them should probably be in counseling.

It's scary to me that someone would lie about car mileage and other small things as Meka has said. People usually lie to get out of trouble, not into it. For example, if something in the apartment got broken and Meka said, "Did you break this?" in an angry way and Michael denied it, I could somewhat see that as going into protective mode because of some leftover fear from your childhood when you'd get your ass handed to you if you accidentally broke something.

That said, I think once you're a grown adult like Michael, that reaction is crap and it's on you to get over it or get yourself some help, not use it to excuse yourself from being a jerk and attach your own faults to other people as if you are just perfect and they are the problem. But anyway... an offer letter in black and white with a number on it and a net pay that's impossible to be its partner is a whole other ballgame, as it lying about places you've travelled to, what you do for a living, etc. That just shows that he's completely delusional or incapable of fessing up to anything. That's scary to me and there's no excuse for that at all.

1 hour ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Getting upset with or annoyed by anything in someone's past that was before he met you and wasn't criminal, is futile and potentially damaging to the present. IOW, Katie is an idiot.

"Who ARE you?! I don't KNOW you! You WROTE This?! How could you write this IF YOU'VE NEVER BEEN IN LOVE?! WTF ARE YOU?!" 

And that's the Reader's Digest Condensed version. IMO, that irrational tirade should have been the final nail in the Coffin of Crushed Dreams that contains the remains of the "Katie and Derek love story."

That was the weirdest exchange that I've seen on the show. What the hell was that all about? It was bizarre in the extreme. And getting angry about a date he had years ago? Holy cow. 

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10 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Does anyone else want to shake Mindy because she doesn’t seem mad at her “friend “ Lindsay at all ? While she’s going on about Zach who , let’s face it , was never gonna be into her or say yes on decision day .. I kept thinking about how much I wanted Mindy to tell her friend off , yet she didn’t say a bad word about her . The fact that she was talking to him at all behind my back would have made me end the friendship . 

I hope that we just didn't see Mindy ripping her "friend" a new one but she did so off camera.  Right now I'm actually impressed with Mindy considering what a wimpasaurus she's been up until now.  I thought it was EPIC how she pretty much forced Zach to run away wimpering with his tail between his legs!  He is another scary one like Michael.  He has shown zero emotion with Mindy whatsoever.  She kicks his ass out and he can barely react.  Just WOW, how creepy!  He's the type that will not show any emotion while he puts you through the wood chipper....Shudder.
 

10 hours ago, Racj82 said:

No, I put part of this on the producers. I'm sure they have a tons of applicant that would make great spouses. But, those people also are too short, want a spouse outside of their race, obese and a bunch of other things that don't matter but do to producers. 

I actually think they specifically choose these wack-jobs and losers.  They could probably chose an entire season full of Bobbys, Austins, Jessicas, etc. but they are looking for fireworks, not boring love stories.  Is it any wonder that we only get one or at most two normal couples per season if that?
 

10 hours ago, VagabondDays said:

Derek is definitely immature, but Katie is a legit TODDLER.  What is with her pouting about Derek’s other dates?  She was jealous.  Ok.  But after puberty, you don’t act like that.  She’s awful and he deserves — at the very least — a non-turtle-faced ADULT for a wife.

Agreed.  She is expecting too much too soon.  She doesn't see how she is responsible for the walls she has erected that prevent him from being more open and himself around her.  She said, "Who ARE you?" like he has not been honest and open about himself with her.  But truthfully, he has given her the impression that he was never in love but then shows her the poems of a lovesick teenager.  And then he denies it was about anybody in particular!  I used to write poetry as a teenager and I seriously doubt his poems were about "nobody in particular".  They certainly didn't seem that way to me.  So I think there are issues on both sides with the two of them.

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6 hours ago, gingerandcloves said:

Jessica and Austin - they're super sweet. I hope Jess gets over her hangup over the "L" word. Austin has said and shown that he cares about her a lot, so she needs to let the verbalization go. He'll say it eventually. It was good that they had their first "fight" - it shows that they are solid and can compromise and give each other some latitude.

I still think this is a non-issue being made into an issue by production just like they did with Bobby and Danielle, only in that season it was Danielle that couldn't say the "L" word.  I would bet my bank account that in both cases they were using the "L" word in private but production wanted to make a fake issue to create fake tension and fake drama once again.  Same is true for the work travel with Jessica.  I am sure they have no real issue there. 

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11 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Does anyone else want to shake Mindy because she doesn’t seem mad at her “friend “ Lindsay at all ? While she’s going on about Zach who , let’s face it , was never gonna be into her or say yes on decision day .. I kept thinking about how much I wanted Mindy to tell her friend off , yet she didn’t say a bad word about her . The fact that she was talking to him at all behind my back would have made me end the friendship . 

maybe she did talk to her off camera? just so she does not forgive her and keep her as a friend

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