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Whimsy

S40.E07 We're in the Majors

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If you want to see women win Survivor you have to check out Australian Survivor.  A woman has won three times out of the four completed seasons.  The non-winners who dominate the game tend to be women as well.

I watched the first season and love it. One of my fave FTC performances/winners ever! But the show is too damn long for me lol. Maybe if it was airing on TV here I would watch it, but I don't have the patience to seek out that many (long ass) episodes by other means.

7 hours ago, HeShallBMySquishy said:

Also, the fire token bullshit is just that. Just play the fucking game.

I'm already over fire tokens and they're barely even a thing yet. Ugh!

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

What will really undermine Sandra's self-appointed title is if she really does 'retire' from Survivor-out of sight, out of mind.

I wish everyone that's played 3 or more times would retire. I don't need to see any of these people that many fucking times!

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5 hours ago, simplyme said:

A watery tart essentially threw Excalibur at King Arthur, but I think his reign had already started by then.

Moistened bints lobbing scimitars notwithstanding, I’m pretty sure (a) when a royal quits their gig it’s called “abdication” and (b) when they walk away from the throne, they walk away from the title as well.  

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8 hours ago, Nashville said:

 

Echo that.  For my sister and me “summer camp” was two weeks in the summer on our grandparents’ farm helping them dig potatoes, pick corn, slop hogs, bust up the fields, and harvest tobacco.  I was the only 12-year-old in my class who knew how to drive a tractor.  
Actually, I think that two weeks was more my parents’ vacation than mine....  😁

Ah, memories.  My brother and I were sent to my grandparents and my grandpa, an off the boat Italian, would garden in his suit and hang the jacket on the scarecrow.

My other grandma would teach you to drive at the age of 10 because everyone should know, just in case.

Maybe our at-home-camp was how we were free range all day and only drove our bikes up to the side door so mom could hand us a sandwich and tell us to drink from the hose.  The same hose that laid on the grass and was fertilized by the green trucks. 😲

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Two days later and I'm still mad about Yul. But this is why I'm okay with this being an EoE season; the Edge scenes are better than the actual game. Ethan talking about being afraid and Parvati comforting him, Rob convincingly pretending to question his own wife about fire tokens when he knew he had three of them, and especially the blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment of Ethan reaching out and rubbing Rob's head as he walked past him.

I don't think an EoE person will win, just because I think this group as a whole will think that's bullshit, and if that's the case, then I guess I'm rooting for Sophie now, which surprises me since I could not stand her before this season. But when Yul was getting ready to give away his fire tokens, I was thinking, "Sophie! Give them to Sophie! oh i guess i like sophie now that's weird."

I don't even know what to say about Michele. I mean, we've all been in that place where we wanted an ex- back and that ex- has made it clear what a one-sided feeling that is, but god damn, girl, have some self-respect. If she thinks demeaning herself for Wendell will convince people that she's a great player, well, good luck with that project.

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I guess I'm the only person watching who enjoys Ben. Yeah he made a couple of mistakes early on, but he's a powerhouse in the challenges and I enjoy his quirky humor, such as changing his voice when talking to nutty Adam.

I struggle with Ben. I want to like him, and I did think that his "tone" with Adam was funny. But I cannot get past the fact that he is the reason for this stupid new rule where the final IC winner chooses someone to go with them to the F3 and the other two make fire to battle for the third spot. 

This gimmick was first introduced in Ben's season as a way to prevent them from voting him off because producers knew he would be a "fan favorite," and they actually had the colossal gall to try to pass it off as an "advantage." When Chrissy won she final immunity challenge she was presented with an "advantage" which was actually a disadvantage, because she, Ryan and Devon all planned to vote out Ben so the producers stepped in and prevented them from doing so. Ever since, they have had to try to legitimize this blatant interference and manipulation by repeating the gimmick, although they no longer try to sell it as an "advantage."

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1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

Two days later and I'm still mad about Yul. But this is why I'm okay with this being an EoE season; the Edge scenes are better than the actual game. Ethan talking about being afraid and Parvati comforting him, Rob convincingly pretending to question his own wife about fire tokens when he knew he had three of them, and especially the blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment of Ethan reaching out and rubbing Rob's head as he walked past him.

I don't think an EoE person will win, just because I think this group as a whole will think that's bullshit, and if that's the case, then I guess I'm rooting for Sophie now, which surprises me since I could not stand her before this season. But when Yul was getting ready to give away his fire tokens, I was thinking, "Sophie! Give them to Sophie! oh i guess i like sophie now that's weird."

I don't even know what to say about Michele. I mean, we've all been in that place where we wanted an ex- back and that ex- has made it clear what a one-sided feeling that is, but god damn, girl, have some self-respect. If she thinks demeaning herself for Wendell will convince people that she's a great player, well, good luck with that project.

I agree with your points. I just want more game play from the new school players instead of "hey, let's all gang up on someone who's actually trying to play the game because they're now deemed a threat." I'm not a Denise or Adam fan, but I at least give them credit for trying to make moves. Ben just runs around kisses everyone's behind, while Kim looks frozen in time, fearing she'll be targeted as soon as she breathes. Now with all the old school players on EoE, I really hope these guys start playing instead of targeting someone like Tony for no other reason than he is a big threat because of his wining season. The following week it'll be Jeremy, until Ben, Michelle and Wendell are sitting in the final 3 for no other reason than following this line of thinking.

Although I like Parvati, Rob and Tyson, part of me wants Natalie to come back so that everyone doesn't put a halt to their game play for another week to target an old schooler. I feel like 1/2 of the new schoolers are playing the old Sandra strategy of anyone but me. My hope for this season was that the winner would put their stamp on the all winners season and become the definitive Survivor player. Instead, the thought process seems to be that I'll take my chances backing into the final tribal council and hope the other 2 individuals also haven't made any significant moves.

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On 3/26/2020 at 7:20 AM, Whimsy said:

Tyson has a very dry sense of humor.  I really don't think that he thinks he's "amazing".  He was making fun of himself along with making fun of Rob.  

 

right with you on Tyson. I love Tyson. He makes me laugh and I get his humor. He's joking all the time. I'm just a fan of well played sarcasm. 

I was sad to see Yul go. I think he'd be a more reliable partner for Nick and a shield post merge since everyone knows Yul is strategic and smart. Wendell is not a reliable player right now.

I loved Wendell on his first season. He seems to be in a really bad mood this time. 

One thing that may have hurt Yul's game--for a good long stretch of his game, there were not tough vote outs. That was the season his tribe was down to 4 people (due to Candace and Penner jumping ship) and they had to go on a challenge run--which they did mainly thanks to Ozzie. Every time they won, they sent Candace to outcast island or whatever it was. He had to work hard post merge but he had a very strong 4 then. So I think he's less experienced with the vote by vote survival parts pre-merge. 

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13 hours ago, endure said:

Yes i wanna see the new schoolers eat grubs, worms and baluts or whatever they’re called.....it’s got to get a lot tougher for them 🤗

Oh yes!  I always forget about that because I had to leave the room when they did it, but any Survivor winner who hasn't had to do that is definitely 2nd tier 😄 

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I wonder how next week will play out with the various alliances. Obviously with Sele's move to vote out Yul, it'll put a fracture into the old Dakal tribe. It now appears that we have 3 sets of 3-person alliances:

Wendel/Michelle/Nick

Jeremy/Kim/Denise

Sophie/Sarah/Ben

Tony will likely hook up with Sarah and Adam will likely grovel back to Denise.

Usually the smaller group aligns themselves with a bigger group to take out another bigger group, but I see the Sophie team working more closely with the Jeremy team than Nick's team at this point. However, with the way things have played out so far, I can totally see everyone putting their game on pause.......again............to take out the easy targets like Tony, Adam and perhaps the returning EoE player, until they're down to 9 players.

I really think Nick screwed himself voting out Yul. If he had voted Michelle or even Wendel, he could've walked into the majority at the merge, considering that Sarah would bring in Tony, even if Michelle turned on them. It was an unnecessary bold move considering that he, Michelle and Wendel don't have any advantages walking into the merge.

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1 hour ago, RedbirdNelly said:

One thing that may have hurt Yul's game--for a good long stretch of his game, there were not tough vote outs. That was the season his tribe was down to 4 people (due to Candace and Penner jumping ship) and they had to go on a challenge run--which they did mainly thanks to Ozzie. Every time they won, they sent Candace to outcast island or whatever it was. He had to work hard post merge but he had a very strong 4 then. So I think he's less experienced with the vote by vote survival parts pre-merge. 

I think this is a good point. The Aitu 4 were down at the merge, but Jonathan was fed up with his new tribe at that point and flipped on them (and also feared the power of Yul's idol). I think Yul was also hurt by not finding someone to play the role that Becky did for him in Cook Islands. My husband thinks the editors and other players really underestimated her contribution to the game.

One thing that occurred to me about Michele while watching this episode is that she seems very adept at making people feel like she's with them (or that she's at least persuadable). She advocates for what she wants (like how she tried to save Parvati), but never so hard that it crosses the line into "pushy" and makes her a target. She also can keep a good poker face. I remember in Kaôh Rōng, she was stuck working with Nick, who was super condescending towards her, and she gave a talking head that basically said, "What an ass. But he's all I've got right now." That kind of finesse would be really useful to a Survivor player, but hard for an observer to spot, since the whole point is that everyone takes her for granted—they aren't going to be spending more time talking about her in confessionals than they do anyone else.

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Another question I have. Can tokens be given to other people on EoE just like in the active game? What I mean is that can Amber give her lone token to Rob for him to potentially buy 1 advantage for the return challenge and if successful, use his own 3 tokens for an immunity idol?

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1 hour ago, skybolt said:

Another question I have. Can tokens be given to other people on EoE just like in the active game? What I mean is that can Amber give her lone token to Rob for him to potentially buy 1 advantage for the return challenge and if successful, use his own 3 tokens for an immunity idol?

If they can pass around tokens in the "real" game, I don't see why they couldn't do the same on EoE. 

 

4 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Two days later and I'm still mad about Yul. But this is why I'm okay with this being an EoE season; the Edge scenes are better than the actual game. Ethan talking about being afraid and Parvati comforting him, Rob convincingly pretending to question his own wife about fire tokens when he knew he had three of them, and especially the blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment of Ethan reaching out and rubbing Rob's head as he walked past him.

I forgot about this - that was great. I wonder how (or if) the EoE vibe will change as more "new schoolers" (gag) start arriving. Not that it will turn sour or anything, but I think it will lose this "20th college reunion" feel that it has, which would be a shame.

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5 hours ago, fishcakes said:

... the blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment of Ethan reaching out and rubbing Rob's head as he walked past him.

When did this happen? It sounds adorable! I love Rob and Ethan together.

2 hours ago, Hera said:

One thing that occurred to me about Michele while watching this episode is that she seems very adept at making people feel like she's with them (or that she's at least persuadable). She advocates for what she wants (like how she tried to save Parvati), but never so hard that it crosses the line into "pushy" and makes her a target. She also can keep a good poker face. I remember in Kaôh Rōng, she was stuck working with Nick, who was super condescending towards her, and she gave a talking head that basically said, "What an ass. But he's all I've got right now." That kind of finesse would be really useful to a Survivor player, but hard for an observer to spot, since the whole point is that everyone takes her for granted—they aren't going to be spending more time talking about her in confessionals than they do anyone else.

This. This, this, this.

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In terms of this whole Queen thing with Sandra, my views tend to line up with the great Tywin Lannister in that "any Queen, who has to call herself Queen is no true Queen at all".

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4 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I love Tyson. He makes me laugh and I get his humor. He's joking all the time. I'm just a fan of well played sarcasm.

While I wouldn't say I love him I will always appreciate his coming back from EoE mail with the next clue on a log. When asked "What ya go there Tyson?" Instead of being all "It's a clue!! It says..." He said, "It's a log with a clue on it." That would have killed me were I out there.

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1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

When did this happen? It sounds adorable! I love Rob and Ethan together.

If memory serves, I think it's when Rob laid down to hide the idol that he spotted when he and Ethan were searching together.

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How ironic that Jeff & Survivor Production no doubt did this show ('Winners at War') in response to ALL THE FANS WHO WANTED TO SEE THE OLDSCHOOLERS BACK IN THE GAME -- and now they've almost all been eliminated and we are left with the same monotonous PRESCHOOLERS -- er, um, I mean the more recent winners.  ;->  Am hoping (against hope) that Jeff, et al, figured that out and moved a bit more of the action to EOE Island.  It's my last hope to see the players that I tuned in to watch.  (I'll give Jeff a little credit -- I kinda think he was NOT thrilled to see all these old fan favorites 'extinguished.')

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I feel like all the thought about the nature of what "The Queen" means and Sandra's opinion of same that has been expressed on this board is a lot more thought than Sandra herself has ever given it. It's a thing she says when she's on the show or being interviewed about the show, but otherwise I doubt she really gives a damn, especially at this point. I think it's like her whole "I'm pissed at Rob" bit - more for show than anything. The casual, no drama way she walked off EoE has convinced me of that.

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1 hour ago, TzuShih said:

How ironic that Jeff & Survivor Production no doubt did this show ('Winners at War') in response to ALL THE FANS WHO WANTED TO SEE THE OLDSCHOOLERS BACK IN THE GAME -- and now they've almost all been eliminated and we are left with the same monotonous PRESCHOOLERS -- er, um, I mean the more recent winners.  ;->  Am hoping (against hope) that Jeff, et al, figured that out and moved a bit more of the action to EOE Island.  It's my last hope to see the players that I tuned in to watch.  (I'll give Jeff a little credit -- I kinda think he was NOT thrilled to see all these old fan favorites 'extinguished.')

 

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I hope this is the first and last appearance of the fire tokens.    They sound like something a 4 year old would need to walk on hot lava.  

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(I've posted this twice, but it doesn't seem to be appearing properly.  I don't see any of the "emojis": ie. Like; Laugh; Surprise; etc.  I'll post one more time & then I'll give up - unless someone knows what I've done wrong.  Maybe I hit some wrong button when trying to "Submit Reply." Sorry if this has been posted twice!)  Thanks.

How ironic that Jeff & Survivor Production no doubt did this show ('Winners at War') in response to ALL THE FANS WHO WANTED TO SEE THE OLDSCHOOLERS BACK IN THE GAME -- and now they've almost all been eliminated and we are left with the same monotonous PRESCHOOLERS -- er, um, I mean the more recent winners.  ;->  Am hoping (against hope) that Jeff, et al, figured that out and moved a bit more of the action to EOE Island.  It's my last hope to see the players that I tuned in to watch.  (I'll give Jeff a little credit -- I kinda think he was NOT thrilled to see all these old fan favorites 'extinguished.')

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11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I struggle with Ben. I want to like him, and I did think that his "tone" with Adam was funny. But I cannot get past the fact that he is the reason for this stupid new rule where the final IC winner chooses someone to go with them to the F3 and the other two make fire to battle for the third spot. 

This gimmick was first introduced in Ben's season as a way to prevent them from voting him off because producers knew he would be a "fan favorite," and they actually had the colossal gall to try to pass it off as an "advantage." When Chrissy won she final immunity challenge she was presented with an "advantage" which was actually a disadvantage, because she, Ryan and Devon all planned to vote out Ben so the producers stepped in and prevented them from doing so. Ever since, they have had to try to legitimize this blatant interference and manipulation by repeating the gimmick, although they no longer try to sell it as an "advantage."

Again I have to reiterate this.  TPTB did NOT create the F4 firemaking twist to "save Ben".  This twist was always going to be in play that season, no matter who the F4 were.  Ben could have been the first boot, or he could have actually not placed a U upside-down and won the FIC, and it still would have happened.  Just to someone else.

Them presenting it the way they did fit into the secondary theme of the season: The Season of Secrets.  Recall that people would find dis/advantages they had to anonymously give away to other cast members throughout the season (the first TC only idol Ryan gave Chrissy, Devon getting his vote taken away at one TC).  And there were different kinds of clues for idols (the maps painted onto trees, the friggin' spaghetti plate).  TPTB decided with all that going on, hiding the new twist until the last minute would be the "final secret". 

The "advantage" part was knowledge of this new twist.  Ben didn't know about it until that TC.  He was caught unaware and without any prior practice.  Devon knew and had uncontested practice time (which he wasted by not actually practicing) because Chrissy let him know about it after learning about it herself.

 

8 hours ago, Hera said:

 I think Yul was also hurt by not finding someone to play the role that Becky did for him in Cook Islands.

He did, at first.  But then he and Sophie got split up by the shuffle.

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3 hours ago, TzuShih said:

How ironic that Jeff & Survivor Production no doubt did this show ('Winners at War') in response to ALL THE FANS WHO WANTED TO SEE THE OLDSCHOOLERS BACK IN THE GAME -- and now they've almost all been eliminated and we are left with the same monotonous PRESCHOOLERS -- er, um, I mean the more recent winners.  ;->  Am hoping (against hope) that Jeff, et al, figured that out and moved a bit more of the action to EOE Island.  It's my last hope to see the players that I tuned in to watch.  (I'll give Jeff a little credit -- I kinda think he was NOT thrilled to see all these old fan favorites 'extinguished.')

Um, there are also a lot of fans who tuned in to see the newer players, though. I realize that a lot of people were excited to see the older players (I was really excited to see Yul. I mean really excited.), but all fans are not the same. The entire Simply family is utterly sick of seeing Boston Rob and Sandra, for example, even if we actually like and usually enjoy both of them.

For my family, we like to see different people play. So seeing people play for only the second time is really awesome for us. Seeing someone play for the fourth time? Not so much.

12 hours ago, skybolt said:

I agree with your points. I just want more game play from the new school players instead of "hey, let's all gang up on someone who's actually trying to play the game because they're now deemed a threat."

This wasn't just new school, though. In fact, Dakal wasn't even divided up into new school and old school and never used those terms. Dakal mostly seemed to put people into "threat" and "non-threat" categories. It was Sele that had the four old schoolers cluster up. (The new schoolers mostly worked together by default.) That said, the first person voted out at Sele wasn't an old schooler, and from what we saw Kim was heavily considered as the first vote out for Dakal. 

And I'd argue that the new school players are playing the game. Almost every single person pretty much identified who they felt were the biggest threats to them that they wanted gone first without handicapping the tribe too much, which is strategic. Most people (except Adam) tried not to make Big Moves!! too early unless they had to so they didn't raise their profile and acquire a target, which again is strategic.

In fact, Yul pointed out during one TC that the entire Dakal tribe was coming to a consensus on who to vote out before the actual vote so that the vote would be unified and alliances would remain somewhat fluid rather than being exposed and lines between them hardened. Dakal was an entire tribe working together to vote a person out without creating breaches. (Although it did appear that Sandra and Yul, two old schoolers, wielded a lot of influence in the final decision.)

So... yeah. I was really not happy to see Yul go to EoE, especially when it could have been Wendell, who is just Mr. Personality this season *eyeroll*, but I kind of feel like the newer players are being blamed for playing the game mostly intelligently and right along with the older players. It suuuuucks to lose people you like, but I'm also hoping that having the people who have played a combined 8,042* times on EoE (plus Natalie, Yul, and Danni) will mean we do get to see more of the actual strategy of the non-EoE folks.

*Slight exaggeration.

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7 hours ago, simplyme said:

Um, there are also a lot of fans who tuned in to see the newer players, though. I realize that a lot of people were excited to see the older players (I was really excited to see Yul. I mean really excited.), but all fans are not the same. The entire Simply family is utterly sick of seeing Boston Rob and Sandra, for example, even if we actually like and usually enjoy both of them.

For my family, we like to see different people play. So seeing people play for only the second time is really awesome for us. Seeing someone play for the fourth time? Not so much.

This wasn't just new school, though. In fact, Dakal wasn't even divided up into new school and old school and never used those terms. Dakal mostly seemed to put people into "threat" and "non-threat" categories. It was Sele that had the four old schoolers cluster up. (The new schoolers mostly worked together by default.) That said, the first person voted out at Sele wasn't an old schooler, and from what we saw Kim was heavily considered as the first vote out for Dakal. 

And I'd argue that the new school players are playing the game. Almost every single person pretty much identified who they felt were the biggest threats to them that they wanted gone first without handicapping the tribe too much, which is strategic. Most people (except Adam) tried not to make Big Moves!! too early unless they had to so they didn't raise their profile and acquire a target, which again is strategic.

In fact, Yul pointed out during one TC that the entire Dakal tribe was coming to a consensus on who to vote out before the actual vote so that the vote would be unified and alliances would remain somewhat fluid rather than being exposed and lines between them hardened. Dakal was an entire tribe working together to vote a person out without creating breaches. (Although it did appear that Sandra and Yul, two old schoolers, wielded a lot of influence in the final decision.)

So... yeah. I was really not happy to see Yul go to EoE, especially when it could have been Wendell, who is just Mr. Personality this season *eyeroll*, but I kind of feel like the newer players are being blamed for playing the game mostly intelligently and right along with the older players. It suuuuucks to lose people you like, but I'm also hoping that having the people who have played a combined 8,042* times on EoE (plus Natalie, Yul, and Danni) will mean we do get to see more of the actual strategy of the non-EoE folks.

*Slight exaggeration.

Wendell.....Mr. Personality.......Hysterical. Once again, the editors have all the footage and can do anything they want. That said, did Wendell piss in one of the editors cornflakes? Jeez! It’s so over the top, “Let’s make him the villain because there is no one else”. 

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16 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

When did this happen? It sounds adorable! I love Rob and Ethan together.

I'd have to watch again to be sure, but I think it happened during that "EoE is so boring" montage. They were all sitting there looking glum and then Ethan got up and started to walk away and reached out and gave Rob a little "hang in there, buddy" head pat on the way out. I love them together too. I don't know what it is about those two being friends that gets me right in the feels, but it does.

Day 3: still mad about Yul. And the thing is, Yul is a rational player. That's the number one thing we know about him. The rational thing to do would be to stick with his alliance for at least one more vote and vote Michele out. But I think because he's a good guy, overhearing Wendell be a dick to Michele got to him a little, plus he was already a little leery of Wendell's predictability because of his (probably insincere) attempted dealmaking with Parvati at the previous TC. So I don't think wanting to vote out Wendell was strictly a rational move for Yul, but being a hot nerd, he had to come up with a way to make it rational, so he spun it to himself and the others as a way to get rid of a liability and get his fire tokens at the same time. This made Nick nervous because Nick was being dumb and not realizing that at this stage of the game having a strategist as your number one is actually a good thing? Nick. This is why I forget you exist a lot of the time. (Though I agree with other posters that ultimately Nick may have not been that hot to vote off Yul, but just did it to avoid a tie/going to rocks.) Michele was just thinking about getting back into Wendell's good graces and pants -- seriously, as distant/rude as he'd been with her so far, she gave him one of her fire tokens -- which, although I thought she played a good game in Kaoh Rong, is now as good a reason as any for why people won't respect her as a player now. Ironically, Wendell was the one who behaved the most rationally. Yul was coming for him, so he went for Yul.

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Wendell.....Mr. Personality.......Hysterical. Once again, the editors have all the footage and can do anything they want. That said, did Wendell piss in one of the editors cornflakes? Jeez! It’s so over the top, “Let’s make him the villain because there is no one else”. 

I don't know - I suspect Wendell was just as much of an ass during his own season but the show edited out his worst behavior knowing he was going to win. No reason to do so now.

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Again I have to reiterate this.  TPTB did NOT create the F4 firemaking twist to "save Ben".  This twist was always going to be in play that season, no matter who the F4 were. 

Yeah, sure it was. Do you work for the show? How do you know that? Is that you, Jeff Probst?

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11 hours ago, iMonrey said:
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I don't know - I suspect Wendell was just as much of an ass during his own season but the show edited out his worst behavior knowing he was going to win. No reason to do so now.

I don’t see why they would care to go through that trouble. It’s not like the “villain” has never won Survivor. After all, it’s a show that’s largely built around manipulating and backstabbing people.

I just think what we’re seeing now from Wendell is a combination of his win going to his head, and also that some fans/viewers felt Dom played the more aggressive and in your face game between the two. Meaning they felt he was more deserving of the win. 

And so I think this time Wendell is choosing to play a more openly aggressive, in your face game. As I said, we did see signs of his show-boating and arrogance during his original season.

But I think back then he wisely chose to play the low-key game, where he tried to get along with everyone and keep most of his thoughts to himself, especially at tribal council.

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On 3/27/2020 at 1:52 AM, EllenB said:

I liked when Parvati was listening and talking to Ethan.  It was interesting - and very nice - to see her use her personality outside the game play we're usually shown.  Maybe some of what has been seen as conniving is just a person who is skilled at connecting with others, kind of like Cirie has done.

Perhaps you are right. I have to admit that when Parv was talking to Ethan, saying things like "Are you done?" (paraphrasing here, can't remember the exact words), I was quite aggravated. It was clear Ethan needed encouragement that goes way beyond the game. And In felt for a second like Parvati was taking advantage, trying to get him to quit. But I quickly realized that's not what she was doing. She listened, she made him talk and smile, and she was just being a friend in that moment. I appreciated that a lot.

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On 3/27/2020 at 12:53 PM, fishcakes said:

EoE season; the Edge scenes are better than the actual game.

Agreed!  I did like the blindsides though.

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17 hours ago, simplyme said:

And I'd argue that the new school players are playing the game. Almost every single person pretty much identified who they felt were the biggest threats to them that they wanted gone first without handicapping the tribe too much, which is strategic. Most people (except Adam) tried not to make Big Moves!! too early unless they had to so they didn't raise their profile and acquire a target, which again is strategic.

I totally agree and think that because everyone this season has won before, threats are a lot more individualized. Someone who's a threat to Sophie's game is not necessarily going to be a threat to Tyson's. And no tribe is going to fall into the Terry Deitz "vote everyone out in order of challenge weakness" trance.

I also feel like the new schoolers get criticized no matter what. If Rob or Parvati survive a vote, it's "Why are the new school players keeping such enormous threats around?" and when they're voted out, it's, "These new schoolers are just ganging up on the old schoolers and aren't really playing."

I don't think the new schoolers ever actually had it out for winners of older seasons. Everyone whose name came up at the tribal council where Natalie was voted out was a new schooler (Natalie, Denise, and Adam). Kim and Nick received votes at the tribal council where Amber went home. There were plenty of divisions among the new schoolers for the old schoolers to exploit.

I think Rob, Parvati, and Ethan, have only themselves to blame for being on the bottom of the original Sele and consequently voted out of the game. Their real-life friendships made them a tight unit in the game and I doubt that anyone could have gotten between them. I can't fault the other players for seeing that 1) whoever joined them would be at the bottom of that alliance, and 2) four was not enough to take control of the tribe. At best, you could force a tie. Plus, all the advantages (Denise's idol, which Ben and Adam knew about, and Jeremy's safety without power) were with the new schoolers. Few people are willing to swap an alliance that has advantages for an alliance that doesn't.

Danni, Tyson, and Sandra all got legitimately outplayed in my opinion (and Tyson and Danni both turned on a fellow old schooler first), and Yul got unlucky in a tribal swap—it's hard to hide in a tribe of four people. The only one where I can kind of see an argument for not having gotten a fair shot to play is Amber, but I think that had less to do with her being an old school winner and more to do with the fact that her husband was also in the game and people wanted to split them up.

Speaking of Tyson, I don't think he really counts as an old school winner, even though he first appeared on season 18. The season he won, and which qualifies him to be on this one, was 27.

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23 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know - I suspect Wendell was just as much of an ass during his own season but the show edited out his worst behavior knowing he was going to win. No reason to do so now.

Yea, I think this is just Wendell. He showed his ass, albeit much less and in a more low-key manner, in his first season imo. I don't think it's the editing though, I think it's like @truthaboutluv said, in his first season he was hiding his dickishness for strategy reasons. I don't really understand why he's not this season though.

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You know, to be queen, you have to be married to the king (or vice versa).

That means Amber is queen. 😉

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On 3/27/2020 at 8:47 AM, SoWindsor said:

Can they please do a Runner Ups Rumble season! I’m thinking there can’t be winners though — so no Parv or Boston Rob. 
 

Dream Cast

Kelly
Colby

Ozzy

Amanda

Courtney

Russell

Woo

Stephenie

Coach

Philip

Gervase

Spencer

Tasha

HELL FUCKING NO at Seeing Russell Coach and Phillip again

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4 hours ago, cherrypj said:

You know, to be queen, you have to be married to the king (or vice versa).

That means Amber is queen. 😉

My mother calls her Princess Amber. 😂

Queen Elizabeth (and whoever else has to approve it) never elevated Prince Philip to King, so I guess Rob never elevated Amber?

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On 3/28/2020 at 9:21 AM, ByaNose said:

Wendell.....Mr. Personality.......Hysterical. Once again, the editors have all the footage and can do anything they want. That said, did Wendell piss in one of the editors cornflakes? Jeez! It’s so over the top, “Let’s make him the villain because there is no one else”. 

Personally I just assumed Wendell did one or more fuck&dumps among the Production staff, same as he did Michele.  😁

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On 3/28/2020 at 2:14 AM, simplyme said:

Um, there are also a lot of fans who tuned in to see the newer players, though. I realize that a lot of people were excited to see the older players (I was really excited to see Yul. I mean really excited.), but all fans are not the same. The entire Simply family is utterly sick of seeing Boston Rob and Sandra, for example, even if we actually like and usually enjoy both of them.

For my family, we like to see different people play. So seeing people play for only the second time is really awesome for us. Seeing someone play for the fourth time? Not so much.

This wasn't just new school, though. In fact, Dakal wasn't even divided up into new school and old school and never used those terms. Dakal mostly seemed to put people into "threat" and "non-threat" categories. It was Sele that had the four old schoolers cluster up. (The new schoolers mostly worked together by default.) That said, the first person voted out at Sele wasn't an old schooler, and from what we saw Kim was heavily considered as the first vote out for Dakal. 

And I'd argue that the new school players are playing the game. Almost every single person pretty much identified who they felt were the biggest threats to them that they wanted gone first without handicapping the tribe too much, which is strategic. Most people (except Adam) tried not to make Big Moves!! too early unless they had to so they didn't raise their profile and acquire a target, which again is strategic.

In fact, Yul pointed out during one TC that the entire Dakal tribe was coming to a consensus on who to vote out before the actual vote so that the vote would be unified and alliances would remain somewhat fluid rather than being exposed and lines between them hardened. Dakal was an entire tribe working together to vote a person out without creating breaches. (Although it did appear that Sandra and Yul, two old schoolers, wielded a lot of influence in the final decision.)

So... yeah. I was really not happy to see Yul go to EoE, especially when it could have been Wendell, who is just Mr. Personality this season *eyeroll*, but I kind of feel like the newer players are being blamed for playing the game mostly intelligently and right along with the older players. It suuuuucks to lose people you like, but I'm also hoping that having the people who have played a combined 8,042* times on EoE (plus Natalie, Yul, and Danni) will mean we do get to see more of the actual strategy of the non-EoE folks.

*Slight exaggeration.

You make some very valid points. I don't want to take anything away from the recent winners, since it makes perfect sense to vote out people who have played the game multiple times and have a big reputation. If you can dwindle the number of survivors vying for a $2M prize from 20 to 10 by taking out old schoolers and players seen as potential threats from previous seasons, now you have a 1 in 10 chance instead 1 in 20 in winning the game, which makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, I wish that was not the case and that the new schoolers, whom had a 12-8 edge over old schoolers, would be willing to play with them.

The point I was trying to originally make was that if you're an old schooler, or even someone with a big pre Survivor 40 reputation, you are an easy target for a vote out. Sandra gave Denise an idol, but Denise had no intention of working with her and went for the big move to vote out the queen. If this was a new school player making that move, then Denise would've likely aligned with them. Rob has a statue and was a target from the start. Parvati played chill and wasn't trying to make any big moves, but was still the number 1 target by the new schoolers.  Same thing with Tyson on the Dakal tribe. Amber was voted out because of Rob. Poor Yul played a great behind the scenes game by even targeting the old schoolers, but still got voted out as soon as he started thinking out loud. Yes, Natalie was voted out first, but let's not forget how nervous some of the new schoolers were during the first couple of days. Once they got their footing, they went right after the old schoolers. Kim was initially lumped in with Tyson and Rob, but Yul has also stated that she was targeted as an ally. For instance, there's no way Sophie would give back the second half of the idol if it were Parvati instead of Kim.

It just feels like the old schoolers were pretty much walking on egg shells throughout the first part of the season, because if they just stuck their head out for a second it would be cut off. On the other hand, we have Adam making blunder after blunder, and not getting voted out. Same thing with Wendel openly telling his tribe he'll back-stab them, but of course Nick feels threatened as soon as Yul starts talking about fire tokens, even though Wendel did it first.

With all that being said, I'm still super frustrated with Sandra, Yul and Dani going after the old schoolers when they're down in the numbers. They just put the target on their back by dwindling down their ranks. With Rob, Sandra, Tyson and Parvati out of the game, someone like Nick probably thinks he doesn't need a wizard like Yul to take out huge threats after the merger.

 

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Production may decide to wait another week before having the EoE challenge in order to let the new schoolers draw out their battle lines first. This would give the returning player (or perhaps 2 players) a chance to join one of the newly created alliances. I highly doubt anyone is coming back this week since it wasn't in the promos.

On one hand I hate the Edge of Extinction idea, but unlike Season 38, the current players are aware of it. Their voting strategy should've taken into consideration who could come back later to potentially hurt their game. If you vote out 8 straight old schoolers in a row, then you have to take into consideration them banding together to keep certain players from winning the game. What I mean is that if you made no effort to work with an old school player and decided to get rid of them first, that's potentially 7 people (excluding Sandra) that may not vote for you. That's why I think that players like Sarah, Tony, Jeremy and Kim should watch their backs because the recent players may target them next to remove any links to who the old school players can relate to. If you have a final 7 of Sophie, Wendel, Nick, Ben, Adam, Denise and Michelle you are forcing the old schoolers to base their vote on who played the best game vs. who at least tried to work with us. In this scenario, I could see Michelle as a standout, because she at least made some effort to work with players already voted out. Sophie does have Yul, but that's about it.

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I'm still a little confused about Yul's fire token plan. I'm assuming the plan between he, Nick and Wendell was to vote out Michelle, but for Michelle to tell Wendell that she's voting for Yul. I get that, but the edits made it seem like Yul and Wendell were on the outs prior to tribal council, which would've led to a 2-2 tie at best. Why was Wendell so sure Yul is coming after him during his conversation with Michelle on the beach, while Yul was confident that the 3 guys would stay strong (at least as far as Wendell is concerned)? Were the scene edits somehow reversed and Michelle actually told Wendell what Yul's fire token plan was first, which led him to become more suspicious?

Edited by skybolt

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No matter how gently Yul did it or how good Yul’s intentions were, his calling-out of Wendell over Wendell’s abrasive TC performance probably resulted in negative blowback on at least two points:

  1. Basic butthurtiness; even when someone knows they were acting like an ass, nobody likes being told they were.
  2. From Wendell’s point of view, the simple fact Yul felt it necessary to say something quite possibly telegraphed to Wendell a significant lack of trust - Yul (a) was apparently concerned about Wendell’s ability to manage his own game in a manner competent enough to avoid splashing his allies with shit by association, and (b) didn’t have much faith in Wendell’s capacity to self-correct.

And in such a hyperparanoid environment, let’s face it - any sentiments voiced by a player which stray from anything other than complete and abject ass-kissing are likely to be viewed on a sliding scale somewhere between “fading support” and “outright treachery”.

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1 hour ago, Nashville said:

No matter how gently Yul did it or how good Yul’s intentions were, his calling-out of Wendell over Wendell’s abrasive TC performance probably resulted in negative blowback on at least two points:

  1. Basic butthurtiness; even when someone knows they were acting like an ass, nobody likes being told they were.
  2. From Wendell’s point of view, the simple fact Yul felt it necessary to say something quite possibly telegraphed to Wendell a significant lack of trust - Yul (a) was apparently concerned about Wendell’s ability to manage his own game in a manner competent enough to avoid splashing his allies with shit by association, and (b) didn’t have much faith in Wendell’s capacity to self-correct.

And in such a hyperparanoid environment, let’s face it - any sentiments voiced by a player which stray from anything other than complete and abject ass-kissing are likely to be viewed on a sliding scale somewhere between “fading support” and “outright treachery”.

You definitely make some great points, and I agree with your rationale. I guess this line of thinking comes with the territory for an all winners season. Same reason why Ben and Adam were so eager to get rid of Rob. That being said, I will enjoy seeing the new school players turn on each other soon enough, with most of the potential big threats already having been voted out, to show that that their you know what does actually stink.

To your last point, this is a big reason why Ben will likely make it far into this game. His adoration of these previous winners (whether it's faked or not), and his proverbial ass-kissing of anyone in a power position, will likely result in him making the top 5.

Edited by skybolt
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Not to mull too much on the Yul vote out, but his game planning really backfired on him at the end. His strategy was basically to target old school players with past connections and align himself with new school players who supposedly didn't share any connections. At the end of the day he would've been better off working with Tyson and Amber and then using old school players as a meat shield once they got to the merge. His miscalculation was that recent winners like Nick, Wendell, Michelle, etc. were just as isolated from each other as he was after their wins, which is not the case. I truly believe that if Yul (or Sandra) and Dani just stuck to the script of aligning with old school players, I could see this playing out a lot differently. Let's not forget that before Dani went AWOL, Ben was likely the next vote out after Natalie. Same thing if Sandra listened to Tyson and Tony and targeted the other 4.

If I were Kim, Jeremy, Tony and Sarah I would seriously consider working with each other and perhaps with the returning player to avoid being targeted by the lesser known players, no matter how current alliances (Sophie/Sarah, Denise/Jeremy, etc.) appear to be strong at this point. I can maybe see pulling in Denise into that group after her big move, but have a feeling that the other 6 (Ben, Adam, Michelle, Nick, Wendell & Sophie) will likely continue targeting the high profile players to keep advancing.

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On 3/26/2020 at 1:45 PM, iMonrey said:

I wanted to add how hilarious the background music is during voting at tribal council. It always cracks me up. I don't know what it's supposed to be (some sort of African tribal music??), but there are all these shots of the players sitting there all tense waiting for Probst to bring back the votes, and suddenly you hear some deep-voice male yelling "KURASARO!" or "WAHEEAAH!" or something over the soundtrack. I keep expecting them to jump and go "what the hell was that?"

Yeah, if I ever play (won't!) there's a few things on my bucket list. One is the "grabbing immunity" thing that I mentioned earlier. Another is, if we're allowed to choose our tribe's name, calling it Gadagopupu or something like that just to make Jeff have to keep saying it. And another is to get as many tribe members as possible to go into TC singing an acapella version of whatever pretend jungle music we assume the producers will be playing.

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I didn't notice the Sophie shorts gaffe, but my son and I have a running joke about how there's always a full moon for the whole 39 days of Survivor (because that's what the videographers are fond of shooting).  (gigantically).

Well, the predictable full moon was shown before some camp shots--and then they moved on to EoE--and showed a crescent moon!  Poor Edgers, they don't even get as much moon as the other players, let alone food etc.!  Heh.

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