Tiger King - General Discussion

[FormerMod-a1]

I think it's more that the others are more obviously batshit crazy and creepy that there's no need for discussion.  We all agree they are scum.  Carole's brand of nasty isn't as obvious.  I've said before, she's the best of the bunch, but that doesn't mean she gets a pass.  

[GiuliettaMasina]

On 4/2/2020 at 5:18 PM, Blakeston said:

As for Carole, I wonder if there's anyone who can actually confirm that she tried to stop her husband from breeding the tigers?

 

I'm pretty sure that the ex and daughters mentioned it in one of their interviews. Something along the lines of Carole wanted to keep the animals as pets, but Don saw it as a business.

[BitterApple]

14 hours ago, ShowsILoveToHate said:

 

As for the humans, they can pretty much all drop dead. Or, get eaten by hungry tigers. 

 

My favorite part of the series was when all the redneck scumbags started turning on each other. Jeff cons Joe out of the zoo, Strip Club Guy turns informant to save his own ass, Jeff cons Strip Club Guy out of new zoo, Joe goes to jail, Asshole Wildlife Guy realizes he's being duped into footing bill for new zoo and bails. It was spectacular.

The final cherry on the sundae will be when karma hits Jeff Lowe's sleazy ass like a ton of bricks and he ends up sharing cell space with Mr. Exotic. 

 

[Zella]

23 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

My favorite part of the series was when all the redneck scumbags started turning on each other. Jeff cons Joe out of the zoo, Strip Club Guy turns informant to save his own ass, Jeff cons Strip Club Guy out of new zoo, Joe goes to jail, Asshole Wildlife Guy realizes he's being duped into footing bill for new zoo and bails. It was spectacular.

The final cherry on the sundae will be when karma hits Jeff Lowe's sleazy ass like a ton of bricks and he ends up sharing cell space with Mr. Exotic. 

 

Hahaha the domino effect in that last episode or two was rather glorious! Jeff Lowe looked really nervous in one of his final interviews. It wouldn't surprise me if he and several of the others end up behind bars too.

[beagletime]

Joe Exotic is featured in a 2011 Louis Theroux documentary, "America's Most Dangerous Pets".

Very interesting to see how far off the rails Joe ended up going.  

[Blissfool]

On 4/2/2020 at 2:38 PM, AheadofStraight said:

It's too bad this footage was lost because I'm getting really fucking sick of the "Free Joe" crap I'm seeing out there.

Right?! I just binged the show and because of things I've seen and read, I expected to see Joe as a sympathetic character. As I watched, I kept telling myself, "Maybe in the next episode...". It never happened.

[Chaos Theory]

I didn’t intend to watch this except that my sister recommended it and well quarantine, but this is super fun.  I mean I am by no means an animal person and by that I mean if any of these people were treating these big cats even remotely well I wouldn’t have a problem with them owning them.  But even the supposed  Conservationist  is super shady.   What i found even more interesting was the virtual cults all the different people had working for them (Carol wasn’t even paying her employees at all). While supposedly making millions.  
 

However this actually plays out best when it focuses on the Hatfield and McCoy feud  between Joe and Carol.    Do I think Carol is as bad as Joe.... no but I think she is definitely using her employees as virtual slave labor and getting away with it by calling them volunteers.   Do I think she killed her husband?   I don’t know.     I just don’t think she is a pure soul of everlasting light and a savior to animals either.    

Edited April 4, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

What o found even more interesting was the virtual cults all the different people had working for them (Carol wasn’t even paying her employees at all). While supposedly making millions.    

This part intrigued me too. I've read quite a bit about cults in the past 3-ish years--thank you Jeff Guinn book on Jim Jones for that fixation--and it was startling to me to see how very textbook these places were in doing cult-like recruiting and controlling of the employees. 

[xaxat]

 

[BitterApple]

5 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I think it's more that the others are more obviously batshit crazy and creepy that there's no need for discussion.  We all agree they are scum.  Carole's brand of nasty isn't as obvious.  I've said before, she's the best of the bunch, but that doesn't mean she gets a pass.  

Carole gave me major Amy Dunne vibes. The diary keeping, planting the seeds for Alzheimer's, setting up her husband, finding an adoring simp to prop her up, etc. I was half expecting her to bust out with a "cool cat" monologue at some point during the show. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Spoiler

I just read that Joe Exotic has covid-19. 

Did he go into a federal or state facility?

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

  Hide contents

I just read that Joe Exotic has covid-19. 

Did he go into a federal or state facility?

Joe's charges were federal, so he would be in a federal facility, as far as I know. 

Well, now I am seeing stuff that said he was in the county jail, not transferred yet. So . . . I don't know. 

[gingerella]

So, we tried to watch this mess last weekend and after about 20 minutes in, I asked my husband if he was liking it we both couldn't understand why anyone would watch a bunch of ignorant hillbillies abuse wild animals and call that entertainment. I don't get it at all. Am I missing something here?

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

So, we tried to watch this mess last weekend and after about 20 minutes in, I asked my husband if he was liking it we both couldn't understand why anyone would watch a bunch of ignorant hillbillies abuse wild animals and call that entertainment. I don't get it at all. Am I missing something here?

Kinda.    If you are against zoos then you probably won’t like this regardless.  But the story gets interesting when it starts talking about how each of these zoos are actually run and how even the conservationist lady is a bit shady and might have murdered her second husband.   There is a whole bunch of Hatfield and McCoy stuff that goes on.   And that is even before Joe runs for President in the 2016 election and even got roasted by John Oliver.   I found the whole thing extremely twisted and trainwrecky.   But in a good way.

[DearEvette]

My husband and I watched this show over the past couple of days.  And I came away with just feeling dirty having watched that shit.  But you know what?  I didn't mind Carole Baskin one damn bit.

After seeing the shit show that was Joe, his relentless harassment of her, his disgusting misogyny, his approach to his animals, his treatment of his employees, the lack of safety or care in his 'zoo', the utter abuse of the animals that are shown on screen, their expired Walmart meat, Doc Antle and his R. Kelly like cult of women, their consorting with drug kingpins, the group of men all conspiring to kill a woman and conspiring to out-dupe each other -- yeah Carole is the least of it.

As the show was ending, it felt like it was really trying to make us feel sorry for Joe and that he got trapped and duped by Jeff.  It left a bad taste in my mouth because I also felt like the show really wanted us to downplay all the shit he did with his animals and what he did to Carole and and redirect our ire on Jeff and deflect attention to Carole's supposedly getting away with murder.  I felt like it wanted us to be distracted by Joe's personality and conveniently forget everything they actually showed us for 6 preceding episodes.

Jeff is an asshole, as are most of the men on the show, but nobody forced Joe to sign over his zoo.  And nobody forced Joe to harp on his hatred of Carole in increasingly destructive ways.  I am glad she sued his ass and got her judgement and went after her settlement.  That's right, take his goddamn batteries!

 

[AheadofStraight]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

  Reveal spoiler

I just read that Joe Exotic has covid-19. 

Did he go into a federal or state facility?

Spoiler

A fellow prisoner, not him so far. Not sure why that would be a spoiler but I did the same, just in case. Here is a snopes article about it. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/joe-exotic-coronavirus/

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

There will be a new episode of Tiger King next week!

[Aliferously]

Episode 3 and 4.

"That fire killed seven of my crocadeens" just made me laugh so hard. I am probably too easily amused. 

You wouldn't think a guy like Howard Baskin would agree to get married in a caveman get up. Those wedding pictures were really something. 

Also, the "Here Kitty Kitty" video. I just ... wow.

If I were volunteering somewhere and someone handed me a dead rabbit to feed to my preferred tiger, I would run and never come back. What a bizarre thing to gloat about. 

re: dead husband

I don't know that you can compare chicken bones to human bones. There would be evidence left in the tiger cage for someone to clean up after. 

Basically, I spend most of my viewing thinking everyone on this show is a complete and utter asshole for their own special reasons.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Colorado Sanctuary Home to 39 Tigers Once Owned By Tiger King's Joe Exotic: They're 'Happier'

The Wild Animal Sanctuary says the 39 tigers formerly owned by Joe Exotic came to the sanctuary malnourished, in distress and with extensive dental issues.

[...]

The Wild Animal Sanctuary and the Wild Animal Refuge do not breed their animals and do not allow guests or keepers to have hands-on contact with the animals.

[...]

Joe Exotic’s 39 tigers and three bears came into the Wild Animal Sanctuary’s care through a mix of surrender and the threat of legal action said Drotar.

The tigers’ journey to the sanctuary started in 2016 in Dade City, Florida, at Dade City’s Wild Things Zoo, a private zoo that, like Joe Exotic’s former zoo, allowed guests to pay extra money to handle tiger cubs. The zoo also allowed guests to pay for the chance to swim with tiger cubs. People for the Ethical Treatment Animals (PETA) filed a lawsuit on behalf of the tigers against the Florida zoo on the grounds that the zoo was mistreating endangered animals. As part of the legal proceedings that stemmed from this lawsuit, PETA’s legal team was granted access to the zoo to inspect the property.

“A couple of days prior to that Joe Exotic drove from Oklahoma down to Dade City, Florida, and removed 19 tigers at the behest of the owners of Dade City’s Wild Things,” Drotar said, adding he believes Joe Exotic agreed to move the tigers to his zoo in an effort to thwart law enforcement and because “Joe Exotic was notorious for breeding cubs and selling them to other organizations that used cubs, so there’s a good chance those 19 tigers originated at Joe’s zoo.”

Joe Exotic was deposed and a judge threatened to charge him with contempt of court for taking that big cats across state lines, according to Drotar. To avoid legal trouble, Joe Exotic agreed to give up the 19 tigers to the Wild Animal Sanctuary and chose to surrender 20 tigers and three black bears of his own a short time later. Drotar said that Joe Exotic’s decision to surrender the other animals came shortly after his husband Travis Maldonado died.

[...]

According to Drotar, the tigers came in malnourished and weak, with lackluster coats and extensive dental issues. Additionally, many of the big cats were poorly declawed and had mobility issues as a result. The public relations director also said the animals appeared to have broken spirits as well.

[...]

Two years after arriving at the sanctuary, the tigers now have muscle mass and thick, luxurious coats with an impressive depth of color, and they have space. Joe Exotic, according to Drotar, kept many of his tigers in 12 ft. x 12 ft. cages at the 16-acre G. W. Zoo. At the Wild Animal Sanctuary, each tiger habitat, which contains about four-five tigers, is around 16 acres.

[Chaos Theory]

Honestly the biggest mystery for me isn’t if Carol Baskin killed her second husband.   The biggest mystery is if John. Finlay even owns a shirt.  
 

Also if you want an anti drug PSA. Show this.   The meth mouth was on point.

[Mr. Sparkle]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There will be a new episode of Tiger King next week!

Given the source, I have to wonder if this is true. And holy shit, people will be watching this if it is! 

[AheadofStraight]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There will be a new episode of Tiger King next week 

It annoys me that his slimy ass isn't in prison. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

THR interview with Tiger King directors Eric Goode and Rebecca Chaiklin

They discuss a lot of different aspects. Some highlights

Quote

GOODE: Let me be very clear. There is animal rights and animals rights organizations like PETA, then there’s animal welfare, which is very different than animal rights. Animal rights can be as extreme as not riding a horse, or not wearing leather, not having a pet at all. Animal welfare advocates are preventing the suffering of animals. And then there’s conservation and species conservation and what conservation biologists do. My focus personally has been to be a conservationist, which is to save species, protect wild lands, sometimes bring animals into assurance colonies in the wild — like California Condors for example — and put them back in the wild. It’s very different from animal rights.

So Carole is very clearly an animal rights and animal welfare activist. She does very little in the way of conservation. More recently she donated a little bit of money to some conservation groups around the world, but in comparison to what she brings in, she’s really taking rescued cats and make them live out their lives on her property. And I’ve always posed one question to Carole, a controversial question, which is, if you really want to stop the ownership of big cats in America, why don’t you do what the humane society does? Why don’t you mainly euthanize these animals? Or I should say this: Is it better to keep a tiger in captivity for 20 years pacing and suffering in a cage when you know that a tiger needs hundreds of miles of habitat to roam, or is it more humane to put that animal out of its misery? I don’t know the answer, but I always posed that question to Carole and asked her if maybe it’s better to put your money into conservation programs around the world that actually protect these animals in the wild.

 

Quote

As far as Joe Exotic, I know he’s excited about his celebrity, but has he watched any of Tiger King?

CHAIKLIN: No. He’s incarcerated and right now he’s been put into isolation for COVID-19, so he actually is not available. He’s been cut off from phones, but Joe is somebody who has always wanted to be a star, and so he’s very excited for this to have captured people’s attention the way it did.

To be clear, he didn’t actually contract COVID-19?

GOODE: He was transferred to a federal penitentiary in Texas and they had to put him in isolation when that transfer took place.

CHAIKLIN: And there was COVID-19 in the county prison that he had been held in since September 2018.

Has he expressed any desires as to who should play him if they made this into a scripted movie or TV show?

CHAIKLIN: Yes.

Who did he pick?

CHAIKLIN: He would like Brad Pitt or David Spade to play him.

He throws a wide net.

CHAIKLIN: He doesn’t refer to David Spade as David Spade — he refers to him as "Joe Dirt."

 

Quote

Some stuff has surfaced about Joe and the "N" word, revealing some of his more racist inclinations. Did any of that come up during the making of Tiger King and did you choose not to include it?

CHAIKLIN: Yes. Joe is a racist, I would say categorically. He said things when we were filming that were very unsettling.

Why did you choose to leave them out?

CHAIKLIN: They didn’t have a context in the story, but he has a lot to learn. I think most of it was ignorance and not having a lot of exposure, and I think he even evolved over the course of the time that we filmed.

GOODE: I would say it’s very important for people to know this, that there seems to be an overwhelming amount of empathy for [Joe's current husband] Dillon. We had empathy for Joe, but Joe did a lot of horrible things. Joe committed some really serious crimes and Joe was not only cruel and inhumane to his animals, he was cruel to the people around him. I think it’s very important for people to understand that Joe is an actor and he tells people what they want to hear. As much as we have some empathy for Joe and found Joe to be such an incredible character — this mullet-wearing country singer in Oklahoma — he did a lot of horrible things.

 

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, AheadofStraight said:

It annoys me that his slimy ass isn't in prison. 

Jeff Lowe will get what's coming to him eventually. He'll either screw over the wrong guy and end up "disappeared" like Don Lewis, or someone will stockpile evidence and rat him out to law enforcement. 

I just wonder what sort of Daddy issues Lauren has to marry such a dirtbag and allow continuous disrespect? 

[Zella]

35 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Jeff Lowe will get what's coming to him eventually. He'll either screw over the wrong guy and end up "disappeared" like Don Lewis, or someone will stockpile evidence and rat him out to law enforcement. 

I just wonder what sort of Daddy issues Lauren has to marry such a dirtbag and allow continuous disrespect? 

A friend of mine and I watched separately and compared notes, and though we thought all the major figures were problematic, we both thought Lowe was the sleaziest shit-bag on a show full of them.

On an incredibly petty note, his wardrobe is just as awful as Joe's. In some ways, it's worse to me because I run into people who dress like somewhat tamer versions of Joe on a regular basis, so his aesthetic weirded me out less than it maybe did the general audience. But I can't wrap my head around a middle-aged man dressing like Jeff willingly.  

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Jeff Lowe will get what's coming to him eventually. He'll either screw over the wrong guy and end up "disappeared" like Don Lewis, or someone will stockpile evidence and rat him out to law enforcement. 

I just wonder what sort of Daddy issues Lauren has to marry such a dirtbag and allow continuous disrespect? 

Jeff is that sort of sleazeball who shows off his money that he (doesn't) have and unfortunately a lot of girls (usually from broken, abusive homes) get impressed by the bling bling. They might be under pressure from their families to marry someone who seems to have money. 

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Some stuff has surfaced about Joe and the "N" word, revealing some of his more racist inclinations. Did any of that come up during the making of Tiger King and did you choose not to include it?

CHAIKLIN: Yes. Joe is a racist, I would say categorically. He said things when we were filming that were very unsettling.

Why did you choose to leave them out?

CHAIKLIN: They didn’t have a context in the story, but he has a lot to learn. I think most of it was ignorance and not having a lot of exposure, and I think he even evolved over the course of the time that we filmed.

Ugh.  And that goes to my point about what they are trying to make us feel about Joe and Carole.  Sure, let's spend and entire episode digging deep into suggestions and inferences  that Carole is a murderer but let's leave out actual awful facts about Joe to make him look even more sympathetic.  Because he didn't know any better and has 'evolved'.  Sure Jan.

Their naked apologia for him is gross.  And it played out on screen, imo.

Edited April 5, 2020 by DearEvette

[Pickles Aplenty]

Watched this last night, in one sitting.  All of these people are animal hoarders, plain and simple.  They all talked about starting with one big cat as a pet, and then getting another, and another, like the cats were collectible items, and not living, breathing beings.  Very unsettling.

You can tell the dudes were all losers growing up who couldn't get girls (or guys, in Joe's case), and quickly discovered that having baby tigers and lions on hand solved that problem.  Doc Antle seemed like the biggest creep to me, along with Jeff Lowe.  All these young, naive chicks who are dazzled by the tigers end up moving in with them and doing whatever the fuck they say, because they don't know any better.  The shot of Jeff cramming a poor tiger cub into a suitcase just for some lame party trick was disgusting.  All of these people should be ashamed of themselves.

Carole, Carole, Carole...what is there to say, about Carole?  I don't think she's nearly as bad as the others, and I would most certainly want a tiger to be on her sanctuary than in any of these janky "zoos", but I do think she lives in her own little world, and that she is not an easy person to relate to, or like.  I don't know if she had anything to do with her husband's death, but since he sounded like a total asshole, I can't really blame her for not being broken up, about it.  More than anything, Carole seems to be committing the ultimate sin of being weird and female, on the TV.  I think the cult-like, misogynistic actions of the dudes was much, much worse, and no, I don't consider the colored T-shirt volunteer thing to be cult-like.  Still, I was kind of hoping Carole would do something else on her sanctuary than ride her bike, and wear flower crowns, and act all airy-fairy-foo-foo.  I get the feeling that she doesn't want to get her hands dirty and has everyone else do all the work, which is kind of shitty, but still not as bad as threatening to kill someone, or running a sex cult with barely legal girls.  God, this whole series makes me want to take several showers, because I can feel the sleaze. 🤮

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Ugh.  And that goes to my point about what they are trying to make us feel about Joe and Carole.  Sure, let's spend and entire episode digging deep into suggestions and inferences  that Carole is a murderer but let's leave out actual awful facts about Joe to make him look even more sympathetic.  Because he didn't know any better and has 'evolved'.  Sure Jan.

Their naked apologia for him is gross.  And it played out on screen, imo.

Reading the article,  I get the feeling that the filmmakers do no like Carole and animal sanctuaries in general.   I can't get around the idea that Carole and other sanctuaries should euthanize their cats and use their money for conservation only.  

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Billina said:

Carole seems to be committing the ultimate sin of being weird and female, on the TV.  I think the cult-like, misogynistic actions of the dudes was much, much worse, and no, I don't consider the colored T-shirt volunteer thing to be cult-like. 

I don't think this series was attempting to rank any of these people on an imaginary scale of awfulness. Carole committed the sin of being awful in her own way -- most notably for likely killing her husband. That had nothing to do with her gender - it had to do with her actions. Her genial, flat-affect personality (that I am assuming is a put on) went a long way in blunting her shadiness.  

I don't think this series went out of its way to redeem the awfulness of Joe either -- he was an animal abuser and a misogynist and a racist (though it wasn't shown but didn't really need to be as I assumed that while watching him). The show left me with no impression that he was a person for whom I, or anyone else, should be rooting for but it did leave me with the impression that the rest of those awful dudes may have set him up for the attempted murder. It still doesn't make him any sort of hero. 

All of these people were terrible -- some to a greater extent, some to a lesser. 

[Pickles Aplenty]

I just want to know, what kind of person eulogizes the deceased by talking about his balls, right in front of his weeping mother?  What the actual fuck?

[gingerella]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

THR interview with Tiger King directors Eric Goode and Rebecca Chaiklin

They discuss a lot of different aspects. Some highlights

 

 

 

And yet they helped this asshole gain the fame he so desperately wanted, and which everyone watching is now giving him. The whole thing, to me, is really sick. I wont watch it beyond the few minutes I gave to it last week.

[Zella]

1 hour ago, Billina said:

I just want to know, what kind of person eulogizes the deceased by talking about his balls, right in front of his weeping mother?  What the actual fuck?

I couldn't get over that either. All while sporting a clerical collar?!

[Growsonwalls]

Not exactly related but, tigers have tested positive for covid:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/05/a-bronx-zoo-tiger-now-has-coronavirus/

Poor captive tigers 😞 

As for Carole and her awfulness, I don't think she's an animal abuser the way Joe and the rest of them were. However I do think that with all the money she got from her dead husband, she could have done more to make a better home for her tigers. For one, pay her workers. How are volunteers with different color t-shirts going to really care for the tigers the way they need to be cared for? 

[Steph J]

5 hours ago, Zella said:

But I can't wrap my head around a middle-aged man dressing like Jeff willingly.  

At 67, he's past even middle age.  Every time he came on screen I couldn't help thinking of this:

What I can't wrap my head around is Lauren.  It cannot be lost on her at this point that Jeff's "wealth" is all smoke and mirrors, yet she's still right there smiling while he tells the world that she'd better not stay "fat" after she has his baby and going on about the hot nanny they're going to hire as if it's a gift to himself.

Baby animals are cute and everything, but getting to pet them can't possibly be worth having to be petted in turn by someone as pathetic and repulsive as Jeff.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Steph J said:

At 67, he's past even middle age.  Every time he came on screen I couldn't help thinking of this:

 

OMG I never could find an actual age for him. That's even more embarrassing! The early 2000s called, Jeff. They want their clothes back. 

And yeah I don't think all the tigers in the world could make me touch Jeff. What a fucking creep. 

[Pickles Aplenty]

25 minutes ago, Steph J said:

At 67, he's past even middle age.  Every time he came on screen I couldn't help thinking of this:

What I can't wrap my head around is Lauren.  It cannot be lost on her at this point that Jeff's "wealth" is all smoke and mirrors, yet she's still right there smiling while he tells the world that she'd better not stay "fat" after she has his baby and going on about the hot nanny they're going to hire as if it's a gift to himself.

Baby animals are cute and everything, but getting to pet them can't possibly be worth having to be petted in turn by someone as pathetic and repulsive as Jeff.

Daddy issues, I guess.  Once Jeff gets too old and decrepit to hide it with an Ed Hardy hat and an Affliction jacket, Lauren will be gone.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 4/3/2020 at 8:17 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Another point that I wanted to make about Carol, who I do not know and have no vested interest in, is that after extended and extensive harassment, she finally took legal action against Joe.  She operated according to  what was the legal to do. He put everything in jeopardy with his antics.  Joe attempted to circumvent the judgment by transferring assets.  And when that guy called and offered dirt on Joe, Carol and her husband called law enforcement. She and her husband even negotiated reasonable settlements, while Joe flew off the handle and refused.

One of my friends summed up the show by saying that of all the terrible people featured in this documentary, Joe is the only one in jail because he is by far the dumbest one of the lot. The way he dealt with Carole really underlined that point. He somehow thought that he could get away with saying and doing whatever he wanted without any repercussions.

When he claimed that he didn't get his day in court and that he no longer had faith in the justice system, I just rolled my eyes because he clearly had no understanding of the actual law. His brilliant idea to use the BCR name AND the logo AND the artwork was moronic. He truly thought that if he just transferred everything to his husband and mother, he would circumvent the judgment.

The fact that he had the nerve to blame Carole for draining his mother of money just goes to show how delusional he is. Carole didn't put his assets in his mother's name. That was all his stupid idea, but of course he is one of those self centered people who always sees himself as the victim. Nothing is ever his fault.

On 4/2/2020 at 12:38 PM, AheadofStraight said:

It's too bad this footage was lost because I'm getting really fucking sick of the "Free Joe" crap I'm seeing out there.

I don't get it either. We saw him shoot effigies of her, shove dildos in a doll labeled Carole, and say multiple times that she should die. Then he tried to get someone to actually do it. And do these people who want to free him have no issue with the obvious neglect and abuse of the animals that he claimed to love?

[SG11]

On 4/4/2020 at 8:57 AM, aquarian1 said:

I think it's more that the others are more obviously batshit crazy and creepy that there's no need for discussion.  We all agree they are scum.  Carole's brand of nasty isn't as obvious.  I've said before, she's the best of the bunch, but that doesn't mean she gets a pass.  

I don’t find her the best of the bunch, not by a long shot. She’s horrible. She’s as bad as the rest of them.

Edited April 6, 2020 by SG11

[SunnyBeBe]

7 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

One of my friends summed up the show by saying that of all the terrible people featured in this documentary, Joe is the only one in jail because he is by far the dumbest one of the lot. The way he dealt with Carole really underlined that point. He somehow thought that he could get away with saying and doing whatever he wanted without any repercussions.

When he claimed that he didn't get his day in court and that he no longer had faith in the justice system, I just rolled my eyes because he clearly had no understanding of the actual law. His brilliant idea to use the BCR name AND the logo AND the artwork was moronic. He truly thought that if he just transferred everything to his husband and mother, he would circumvent the judgment.

The fact that he had the nerve to blame Carole for draining his mother of money just goes to show how delusional he is. Carole didn't put his assets in his mother's name. That was all his stupid idea, but of course he is one of those self centered people who always sees himself as the victim. Nothing is ever his fault.

I don't get it either. We saw him shoot effigies of her, shove dildos in a doll labeled Carole, and say multiple times that she should die. Then he tried to get someone to actually do it. And do these people who want to free him have no issue with the obvious neglect and abuse of the animals that he claimed to love?

Supporting him tells me all I need to know about a person.  It really speaks for itself, imo. 

[Zella]

34 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

One of my friends summed up the show by saying that of all the terrible people featured in this documentary, Joe is the only one in jail because he is by far the dumbest one of the lot. The way he dealt with Carole really underlined that point. He somehow thought that he could get away with saying and doing whatever he wanted without any repercussions.

When he claimed that he didn't get his day in court and that he no longer had faith in the justice system, I just rolled my eyes because he clearly had no understanding of the actual law. His brilliant idea to use the BCR name AND the logo AND the artwork was moronic. He truly thought that if he just transferred everything to his husband and mother, he would circumvent the judgment.

The fact that he had the nerve to blame Carole for draining his mother of money just goes to show how delusional he is. Carole didn't put his assets in his mother's name. That was all his stupid idea, but of course he is one of those self centered people who always sees himself as the victim. Nothing is ever his fault.

I don't get it either. We saw him shoot effigies of her, shove dildos in a doll labeled Carole, and say multiple times that she should die. Then he tried to get someone to actually do it. And do these people who want to free him have no issue with the obvious neglect and abuse of the animals that he claimed to love?

My favorite part about Joe's legal battles was when he was explaining he owned nothing because "he's not dumb." I about died laughing when he said that because, Joe, I hate to break it to you, but you are dumb as hell. He really was the dumbest of all the zoo owners, though I'm not sure Tim was far behind. 

He reminds me of people I know who are quite convinced of their own cleverness, and they just cannot see that their harebrained schemes are the very opposite of clever. 

[lynxfx]

22 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Colorado Sanctuary Home to 39 Tigers Once Owned By Tiger King's Joe Exotic: They're 'Happier'

 

 

I've been there about 15 years ago. It is quite large, open and in the middle of nowhere. It also isn't open to the public except on a couple of doner days when they try to raise money.

Glad some of the tigers and bears made it there. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 4/5/2020 at 11:55 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Reading the article,  I get the feeling that the filmmakers do no like Carole and animal sanctuaries in general.   I can't get around the idea that Carole and other sanctuaries should euthanize their cats and use their money for conservation only.  

Eric Goode is definitely biased towards conservationists because he has been involved with exotic turtles for many years (there is more info about his turtle obsession in the article I posted a few pages ago). He owns a turtle sanctuary in Santa Barbara which houses many rare and exotic turtles but I guess only Carole's tigers need to be euthanized and not his turtles.

There are many different kinds of animals that end up in sanctuaries because they have been rescued from private owners, circuses, zoos, etc. If they are extremely injured and they are beyond having a good quality of life, I understand euthanizing them. But many of the animals are relatively healthy so is it kinder to let them live out the rest of their days at a sanctuary or to kill them once they're rescued?

I don't like the idea that they should all be killed so that the money that would be put towards their care can go to conservation. Is it possible to purchase large areas of undeveloped land where elephants or tigers can live in the wild (honest question here, not a rhetorical question)? Even if the answer is yes, there's a ton of land that you can easily buy to preserve these animals' natural habitats, is it really in everyone's best interest to kill every single elephant that's been rescued from a circus or every tiger that someone bought from a breeder like Joe just because they can't be reintroduced into the wild? Of course conservation efforts are important but I don't think that means the blanket attitude should be to kill all animals that have been in captivity.

Edited April 7, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo
typo

[Ohiopirate02]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Eric Goode is definitely biased towards conservationists because he has been involved with exotic turtles for many years (there is more info about his turtle obsession in the article I posted a few pages ago). He owns a turtle sanctuary in Santa Barbara which houses many rare and exotic turtles but I guess only Carole's tigers need to be euthanized and not his turtles.

There are many different kinds of animals that end up in sanctuaries because they have been rescued from private owners, circuses, zoos, etc. If they are extremely injured and they are beyond having a good quality of life, I understand euthanizing them. But many of the animals are relatively healthy so is it kinder to let them live out the rest of their days at a sanctuary or to kill them once they're rescued?

I don't like the idea that they should all be killed so that the money that would be put towards their care can go to conservation. Is it possible to purchase large areas of undeveloped land where elephants or tigers can live in the wild (honest question, here not a rhetorical question)? Even if the answer is yes, there's a ton of land that you can easily buy to preserve these animals' natural habitats, is it really in everyone's best interest to kill every single elephant that's been rescued from a circus or every tiger that someone bought from a breeder like Joe just because they can't be reintroduced into the wild? Of course conservation efforts are important but I don't think that means the blanket attitude should be to kill all animals that have been in captivity.

I see both sanctuaries and conservation should be the goal.  Also, stop private ownership and breeding of exotic animals in captivity.  If the big cat ban is accomplished (and I do applaud Carole for her efforts to make this happen), then fewer animals would need sanctuary in America.  Then over time more money can be used for conservation in Africa and Asia.  As long as the Doc Antles  and Jeff Lowes of the world are breeding tiger cubs, there needs to be sanctuaries.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I see both sanctuaries and conservation should be the goal.  Also, stop private ownership and breeding of exotic animals in captivity.  If the big cat ban is accomplished (and I do applaud Carole for her efforts to make this happen), then fewer animals would need sanctuary in America.  Then over time more money can be used for conservation in Africa and Asia.  As long as the Doc Antles  and Jeff Lowes of the world are breeding tiger cubs, there needs to be sanctuaries.  

I agree. As long as there are animals being rescued from private owners, zoos, circuses, and other organizations, sanctuaries should exist because killing the animals for being alive isn't the answer.

[FormerMod-a1]

I think it depends on the animal and its needs.  If even 40 acres would be confining to it, especially when there are dozens of other animals in that same 40 acres, what kind of life is that?  What if it's a climate and habitat radically different from their natural one? I don't know the answer, but I do think there is more to it than "living is best".

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, Zella said:

[Joe] really was the dumbest of all the zoo owners, though I'm not sure Tim was far behind.  

Which one is Tim? I am not recalling that name for some reason.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

Which one is Tim? I am not recalling that name for some reason.

I don't know that he was ever called by name a lot, though they interviewed him fairly frequently. He was the super creepy guy with the monkey who admired Doc's technique for "training women" and then briefly partnered with Lowe on building the new zoo before they had a falling out. 

[peachmangosteen]

Ah OK yes, I remember him. He was the one that was doing all the work for Jeff's new zoo and then they had the falling out, right?

[Zella]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

Ah OK yes, I remember him. He was the one that was doing all the work for Jeff's new zoo and then they had the falling out, right?

Yes! He was doing all the excavation work before he got mad and took his monkey and left. 

He also accused Jeff of doing none of the work and not actually being 50-50 partners. I loathed Tim, but I suspect everything he accused Jeff of was accurate. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Zella