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I think Spade would be perfect to portray Joe Exotic. 

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31 minutes ago, zibnchy said:

That interview is painful to watch because Spade just babbles stupidly BUT Saff comes off very well, I think. Hope he lands on his feet and even gets a boost from this.

Saf was one of the few classy people in the doc.

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Just started watching this. Don’t know if I’ll finish it. I’ve always believed that exotic animals in any form of captivity is wrong. However, after working at non-profit zoo, and witnessing their conservation efforts first hand I under stand why legitimate non-profit zoos exist. 

However, I do not support operations like Joe’s or the Dr. WhateverHisNameIs and even Carole to a lesser extent.  They have zero respect for those animals. Their needs and their power. It’s all about the almighty dollar. 

Anyway, the reason why I came to comment before completing the series (if I complete the series) is I wanted to ask why the hell is Joe’s husband doing an interview with his shirt off? Completely trashy and gross. Almost turned off the series after watching him. 

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3 minutes ago, Enero said:

Just started watching this. Don’t know if I’ll finish it. I’ve always believed that exotic animals in any form of captivity is wrong. However, after working at non-profit zoo, and witnessing their conservation efforts first hand I under stand why legitimate non-profit zoos exist. 

However, I do not support operations like Joe’s or the Dr. WhateverHisNameIs and even Carole to a lesser extent.  They have zero respect for those animals. Their needs and their power. It’s all about the almighty dollar. 

Anyway, the reason why I came to comment before completing the series (if I complete the series) is I wanted to ask why the hell is Joe’s husband doing an interview with his shirt off? Completely trashy and gross. Almost turned off the series after watching him. 

The people were so repulsive that it was hard not to turn it off at first. I hope the animals are all right.

I actually was a little embarrassed when my husband walked in on me watching this.

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Guys, I can't get over the expired dumpster meat stuff. (Not suggesting this is the worst part of the docuseries, far from it, it's just one of the parts of this mess I'm still thinking about.) It's just hard to believe. Not only is it horrible to imagine the animals surviving on packs of expired bologna or whatever, but there were human beings who were digging through that stuff so that they could bring it home to eat. The excitement in the one guy's voice when he realized that one package of meat was still somewhat frozen just made me sad. 

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26 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Guys, I can't get over the expired dumpster meat stuff.

Plus Joe wanted to open a pizza parlor at his zoo using the Expired Walmart Meat for toppings. I haven't even watched the last two episodes yet. I don't know if I can handle it.

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So many horrible people. I was disliking Carol and thinking she was just like the others and BAM Joe says she killed her husband.  So much insanity.

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3 hours ago, Enero said:

However, I do not support operations like Joe’s or the Dr. WhateverHisNameIs and even Carole to a lesser extent.  They have zero respect for those animals. Their needs and their power. It’s all about the almighty dollar. 

It's really sickening. None of them appear to be educated. They like the baby cubs but after that 6 month mark, those tigers are as good as dead. That one man that purposely unleashed the animals in the middle of the night should have been shot on the spot. The dead bodies of those animals made me want to vomit.

 

7 minutes ago, Sparger Springs said:

So many horrible people. I was disliking Carol and thinking she was just like the others and BAM Joe says she killed her husband.  So much insanity.

I can't believe people like this actually exist. I felt like this was so outrageous that it couldn't be real. Carol's inappropriate laughing at EVERYTHING is disturbing. Her marriage is weird--her husband seems so dry. When Carol was reading the plaques in the first episode and her husband was behind her, her reaction to his presence was bizarre. "You're following me again? Okay, you can read names, too." WTF was that?

I'm struggling to finish this series. I kept watching it because it was so unbelievable but my disgust for all them makes me just wanna read a recap someplace and come back here for the brilliant commentary. I can't stop thinking of these poor animals and the idiots in this country trying to raise them as pets and visit places like this for photo ops.

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39 minutes ago, sainte-chapelle said:

I have watched a few documentaries about Tigers, Exotic is very lucky he didn't get his head torn off. He came close a couple of times, when they took him down and were dragging him around by the leg he became prey in their eyes.  Not to mention the poor animals were underfed. Recipe for disaster. The true victims in this story are the animals. I did feel badly for some of the zookeepers, most were homeless folks he picked up off the street. They felt they owed him. Don't even get me started on that other dudes teenage harem.

Thx to those that recommended Cat Dancers, this exact thing happened in that one!

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4 hours ago, qtpye said:

The people were so repulsive that it was hard not to turn it off at first. I hope the animals are all right.

Indeed. They were all disgusting. 

Unbelievable that they were getting away with paying people $100-$150 a week when they’re working 7-days a week, 12 hours a day. This violates several labor laws, but if this is those workers only source of income and place to live, they’re not going to report them to their local department of labor, and are less likely to leave.

The situation with Carol’s dead/missing husband (Don) seemed highly suspicious. I don’t know what happened to him. We’ll probably never know. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if she was in someway involved. She and her current husband are strange birds, and really she came off just as disingenuous as the others profiled in the documentary. 

It’s unfortunate what happened to Joe’s  parent’s finances, but he opened Pandora’s box when he violated copyright law in another effort to go after Carol. Basically his mouth wrote a check his ass couldn’t cash, which ultimately led to his downfall. 

I just finished binge watching this and overall I thought it profiled a cesspool of horrible and broken people, more the former than the latter. It’s absolutely sick how Joe and Dr. Antle preyed on the displaced and weak, not to mention how the cats were disposed of when they were no longer of use. I don’t know if Joe was set-up or not on the murder for hire charge. However, his obsession with Carol and desire to violently attack her, as displayed in his numerous videos about her, did him no favors. I will say he got in way over his head when he got into bed with Jeff Lowe and his associates. The con artist got conned by some individuals who were way worse than him, but he made his bed...

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18 minutes ago, DrSparkles said:

Thx to those that recommended Cat Dancers, this exact thing happened in that one!

I haven't seen it, I hope I can stream it from somewhere!

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Whew, chile. That show was a bowl full of crazy--animal abuse, polygamy, hitmen, drug dealers all in seven hours. 

They were all trash people, but Carole was the worst; at least Joe, Doc and even Jeff were transparent with their crazy. Carole, however, was a wolf in sheep's clothing. There is no way that I'm convinced that she was not involved in her husband's  disappearance. 

I felt bad for bad for the employees who worked long hours for very little pay, spoiled meat and cockroach sandwiches. Granted, they were complicit, but in both Joe's case, he was their saviour; he offered them jobs and housing, so I understand their loyalty to him. 

What baffles me is Joe's romantic involvement with Travis and John knowing both were straight men; why did they agree to become marry him? For housing? Meth? Desperate for employment? Perhaps, they're bi but in denial? I don't get it.

Of course, those poor tigers; people have no business owning them as pets. They belong in the wild--not in a cage or someone's family room.  I refuse to visit a private zoo after watching this $h!+ show.

Edited by sereion
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1 hour ago, sainte-chapelle said:

I haven't seen it, I hope I can stream it from somewhere!

It's available through Amazon Prime Video. It's not free to Prime members but well worth the couple bucks!

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16 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

My heart broke for all of those poor animals living such miserable lives trapped in cages, used and discarded in horrible ways.

To be honest, I kept rooting for the tigers to eat every last one of them!

 

EXACTLY. Right from Joe, Carole, Doc, etc they are all really shitty.

These animals deserve a reserve where they can run free, not caged up and certainly not shot when they out live their "cutness".

Private zoos should be banned. Owning exotic animals should be banned.

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6 hours ago, zibnchy said:

That interview is painful to watch because Spade just babbles stupidly BUT Saff comes off very well, I think. Hope he lands on his feet and even gets a boost from this.

I thought it was actually pretty great. Spade kept it light and still got into a lot of the questions we all want to know. Kelci came off even better after that and was definitely the more normal person in the doc. Who would have thought that of a person that lost their arm and came back to work days later.

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On 3/24/2020 at 3:05 PM, Straycat80 said:

I just binged this. I was riveted. What a shitshow and it was true. There was definitely something shady about all the big players in this docuseries, even Carol. 
It blew my mind that there are more tigers in captivity than in the wild. The tragedy for me was not seeing Joe sent to jail or how anyone’s life was ruined, it was seeing all those beautiful animals caged up for the rest of their lives. 

I want to watch the show except my heart will break seeing animals in captivity.  

I'm not sure I can handle it.  Or does is it not as bad as I think it might be?

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2 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

It's available through Amazon Prime Video. It's not free to Prime members but well worth the couple bucks!

I just watched it. So many questions. I think the interviewers missed the chance to ask all the hard questions about why Jupiter was introduced at Ron's insistence and why they continued to use him when he was obviously unhappy and unstable. Why the hell would you lead your drunk wife into the cage to feed him? "They were going to bring Joy to the hospital and I didn't want her to leave so I suggested she see the cats." That is a terrible idea. She was clearly afraid of Jupiter and no longer trusted him after the accident. Her shaky footage of him and her tone of voice proves it. Why did they keep Jupiter after the accident? What conversations took place to lead to that decision? I own a tiger too...well at least she thinks so and I don't tell her otherwise. She is more than enough cat for me thanks.

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I;m watching this now. I'm stunned these roadside zoos are that popular and make that much money. Well actually I'm not. When I went to Florida there was a guy who had a truck where he kept rescued skunks and boas. 

When I was watching the series I thought that both Joe Exotic and Carole in their weird way love big cats. Both of them are also exploitative and hypocritical. Their attitude towards cats kind of reminds me of how the humans in Westworld have "favorite" robots. The humans also abuse and manipulate the robots but they swear they care about said robots. It's sort of the same thing. 

With that being said I don't see how Carole's Wild Cat Sanctuary treats its big cats better than Joe Exotic;s zoo. Both look like sad, small, cramped cage roadside zoos to me. I guess Carole doesn't breed her big cats which makes her better. But these poor tigers deserve so much better.

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I am also in the camp that says all three of our heroes are basically peas in the same pod. They all think they're saving the tigers, but they're not.

Taking newborn cubs away from their mothers so they'll be rejected is not only dumb but downright cruel. It makes them more mallable for hand rearing and public performing, but they will never be able to survive out in the wild if given the chance. They are also phasing out that aspect with every new generation being born. 

I think Carol's dead husband was probably caught speaking to a low level "volunteer" (just wtf with that system?) and therefore had to die. One does not acknowledge the slaves until they wear the right colour t shirt. 

I think somewhere out there, Travis' parents are still searching for him and local authorities hope to find him alive.

No way he wasn't co erced into that poly bullshit marriage. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, sainte-chapelle said:

I just watched it. So many questions. I think the interviewers missed the chance to ask all the hard questions about why Jupiter was introduced at Ron's insistence and why they continued to use him when he was obviously unhappy and unstable. Why the hell would you lead your drunk wife into the cage to feed him? "They were going to bring Joy to the hospital and I didn't want her to leave so I suggested she see the cats." That is a terrible idea. She was clearly afraid of Jupiter and no longer trusted him after the accident. Her shaky footage of him and her tone of voice proves it. Why did they keep Jupiter after the accident? What conversations took place to lead to that decision? I own a tiger too...well at least she thinks so and I don't tell her otherwise. She is more than enough cat for me thanks.

Right?! A quick google told me a tiger will go after wounded or weak prey. So when Whatshisname tripped & fell... BAM. & then Joy was down 20 pounds & grieving?? Dayum. Tragic.

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2 hours ago, Aliferously said:

I think somewhere out there, Travis' parents are still searching for him and local authorities hope to find him alive.

No way he wasn't co erced into that poly bullshit marriage. 

Wasn't his mother at his memorial service?

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2 hours ago, Aliferously said:

I think somewhere out there, Travis' parents are still searching for him and local authorities hope to find him alive.

No way he wasn't co erced into that poly bullshit marriage. 

I don’t follow, I wasn’t quite sure if his his death was actually a suicide or an accident (playing with the gun) but he’s surely deceased. He died from a gunshot wound to the head. 

 

3 minutes ago, druzy said:

Wasn't his mother at his memorial service?

Yeah she was. 

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10 hours ago, Jextella said:

I want to watch the show except my heart will break seeing animals in captivity.  

I'm not sure I can handle it.  Or does is it not as bad as I think it might be?

If it bothers you to see animals in captivity I wouldn’t watch this. 

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3 hours ago, Aliferously said:

I think Carol's dead husband was probably caught speaking to a low level "volunteer" (just wtf with that system?) and therefore had to die. One does not acknowledge the slaves until they wear the right colour t shirt.

I think this moment was very revealing in terms of Carole's personality. Her overall attitude to the volunteers and interns her place needs to survive bothered me. It's like some weird ass pyramid scheme only they aren't selling a dream of more money.

Years ago I worked at a hotel that had around 900 employees. Our GM lived in a penthouse suite in the hotel with his family and he went out of his way to get to know all of the employees who were working at the property. Yes, we wore nametags but he knew details about us individually. He asked questions, showed concern and gave every indication that he cared about us as people. 

Carole just didn't seem to care about the majority of the people who are sacrificing their time and energy to run her "sanctuary". Just the fact that she states that she doesn't bother to get to know the newcomers makes her seem thoughtless and rude. Why wouldn't she be more welcoming to the people who are keeping her con place going?

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42 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

If it bothers you to see animals in captivity I wouldn’t watch this. 

Thank you.  I will definately take a pass.  

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One of the weird things was that I noticed that Doc, Joe Exotic, and Carole all have a stable of relatively "normal" people who run the day to day operations of their zoos. They attract different types (Doc's harem vs. Joe's homeless crew vs. Carole's "volunteers") but these workers all seem to genuinely love animals and the social bonds created within the confines of the zoo. I was shocked though when one of Doc's former girls (Barbara) said she agreed to implants just so it'd give her a few days off from her job.

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Yowza, my jaw dropped about 10 minutes into Episode 1, and I wasn't able to pull it back into place until this glorious shitshow was over.  

Every single time I thought things couldn't get crazier, they somehow did.  I had to keep reminding myself that this was real and not scripted.  All of these over-the-top dregs of society really do exist and these events really did happen.  

I feel like I should send Netflix a virtual bouquet of thanks for this tawdry little gem.

In other news, this happened right up the road from me.  The place is still in operation but struggling with the COVID-19 shutdowns.  

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lion-role-death-called-terrible-accident-article-1.1290690

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On 3/27/2020 at 2:44 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

One of the many things about Carole's story that's implausible to me is that she claims that she'd never even heard of Alzheimer's until her husband allegedly went downhill. She says Alzheimer's "wasn't a commonly used word."

In the mid-to-late nineties? Are you freaking kidding me? I was a kid then, and I'd known what Alzheimer's was for many years. It was an extremely well-known disease.

Even if we accept what she says as true, that means she knew her husband was severely mentally incompetent, and she knew that he was illegally flying planes, and she never did jack shit to stop him beyond supposedly scheduling a doctor's appointment. There is no way she wanted that man alive.

15 hours ago, sereion said:

What baffles me is Joe's romantic involvement with Travis and John knowing both were straight men; why did they agree to become marry him? For housing? Meth? Desperate for employment? Perhaps, they're bi but in denial? I don't get it.

I'd bet that their attraction to women made them even more appealing to someone like Joe.

With Travis, it sounds like the drugs were the main reason he stayed. And considering how much meth John must have used to have such busted teeth, I'd bet it was a big part of him staying, too.

It wouldn't surprise me if both John and Travis are/were at least somewhat attracted to men. But hell, there's no shortage of women who shack up with men out of desperation, despite having no real physical interest in them. They may have been their situation, too.

And as gross as most of us find Joe, he had access to large sums of money, drugs, motor vehicles and firearms (which John and Travis seemed to really enjoy). And he had a cult of personality surrounding him. And he gave them access to exotic animals. And he probably convinced them that they would be trophy husbands, rather than having to work.

All of those things are huge elements in attracting young, impressionable people. Especially when they live in an area with very little to do, and very little economic opportunity.

Anyway...what happened to the 12 or so large cats that Joe brought with him when he fled his compound? Does anyone know?

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18 hours ago, kendi said:

When Carol was reading the plaques in the first episode and her husband was behind her, her reaction to his presence was bizarre. "You're following me again? Okay, you can read names, too." WTF was that?

Think about it logically.  Of COURSE Carol's husband was following HER.  Would you let her get behind you???? 

She has a history of one missing husband whom she had declared dead, and a large supply of animals who are hungry for fresh meat and could, therefore, be an easy way to get rid of a(nother) body.

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I just finished episode 4 and what I got from Joe is a lot of "mean girl" energy - putting all of that effort into making another person miserable.   It takes a special kind of jealousy to spend so much time making threats and videos and organizing protests and reading diaries and hiring spies and offering rewards.  Joe just showed how he was a scared little boy that was afraid that his toys were going to be taken away.

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5 hours ago, druzy said:

Wasn't his mother at his memorial service?

I was joking, but I didn't know he passed away😕 (I didn't get that far yet). 

No, his whole attitude just screamed like he was somewhere he wasn't sure he wanted to be.  Perhaps due to drugs but I kept thinking he might have run away from home or just walked out of his life without much of an explanation.

Edited by Aliferously

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1 hour ago, Persnickety1 said:

Yowza, my jaw dropped about 10 minutes into Episode 1, and I wasn't able to pull it back into place until this glorious shitshow was over.  

Every single time I thought things couldn't get crazier, they somehow did.  I had to keep reminding myself that this was real and not scripted.  All of these over-the-top dregs of society really do exist and these events really did happen.  

I feel like I should send Netflix a virtual bouquet of thanks for this tawdry little gem.

In other news, this happened right up the road from me.  The place is still in operation but struggling with the COVID-19 shutdowns.  

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lion-role-death-called-terrible-accident-article-1.1290690

That lion went lion (TM: Chris Rock).

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18 hours ago, sainte-chapelle said:

I haven't seen it, I hope I can stream it from somewhere!

I found Cat Dancers on youtube. It's a little over an hour long.  

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On 3/27/2020 at 10:35 PM, zibnchy said:

Holy Cow! I keep thinking this can't possibly get crazier and then it does!

 

The best part? I haven't thought about the Corona Virus in 5 hours!

 

This 100x over!

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59 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Thats the thing that struck me about Carole. That she really thought she was some Jane Goodall type person when the fact is she runs a crappy roadside zoo and doesn't even pay her workers but gives them different colored t-shirts.

Which she probably made them give back if they weren't volunteering any more.

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I’m in the Tampa Bay Area and this whole saga has played out in our news for years. Seeing it all pulled together with baffling details...wow. Just...good god. The only surprising thing is that ALL of them weren’t from Florida, lol. And Carole, you killed your husband, FFS. And were you trained in Ally McBeal/The Biscuit smile therapy? Cuz you creepy, girl. At a former job of mine more than a decade ago I had the horror of seeing one of her super drugged big cats on display and I was like, if this is the freaking RESCUE, god help the animals in those “zoos.”

And hey, another reason to not like Shaq! 

How did any of these men get anyone to sleep with them, ever?  How did only one person lose an arm (and then went back to work?????)? Who on EARTH is keeping these places in business???? That grody cult leader in SC needs to be jailed just for being grody. 

I don’t care if Joe Exotic was set up or not. I hope he dies in a cage like he deserves. Literally every damn thing he did was awful. He probably can’t buy a pack of gum without exploiting or hurting someone. 

And I hope all of the paying customers shown are feeling really awful about their part in this horrific animal abuse. I doubt it, but I can hope. 

 

Edited by Stiggs
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58 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

This EW interview gives some insight into Carole's charge that the Netflix producers lied to her:

https://ew.com/tv/tiger-king-producers-respond-to-carole-baskin-criticism/

I was struck by this quote:

Thats the thing that struck me about Carole. That she really thought she was some Jane Goodall type person when the fact is she runs a crappy roadside zoo and doesn't even pay her workers but gives them different colored t-shirts.

I agree Carol is full of shit. Her little sanctuary sounds like a pyramid scheme to me. She seems more 'sane' than Joe, making her, in a way, more dangerous. Does she have any training or certification that enables her properly care for these animals?

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8 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Also: Joe totally started that fire to destroy the reality tv tapes. 

Every time they showed him walking without his crutch, I thought that bandy-legged strut looked familiar/suspicious.

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I felt really bad for Travis. I put a question mark in his death being an accident. He sounded depressed, addicted to drugs, and trapped in an abusive relationship. Wouldn’t surprise me if he wanted it all to end and impulsively shot himself. Poor guy. Also Joe is a dirt bag for the way he treated Travis’s mother. 

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On 3/28/2020 at 1:20 AM, Slovenly Muse said:

Not saying she definitely didn't do it, but I'd need some MUCH more compelling evidence to believe there is an argument to be made that she did it.

I agree. It makes for compelling tv but there isn't any real evidence tying her to murder. I could believe that she tampered with his will though. 

While her current views on tiger breeding and cub exploitation and support of legislation to protect these animals are laudable, she's isn't altruistic. Her advocacy is about herself as much as the cats. I think she enjoys being in the public eye, like Joe. She said at one point that a possible positive outcome of her murder would be bringing attention to animal rights abuses. That says a lot about how her self-worth is tied up in her advocacy. Basically, it seemed that she sees herself as a matyr.

On 3/24/2020 at 5:29 PM, Avaleigh said:

I didn't really see how Carole's "sanctuary" was all that great for the animals. Maybe she wins best of the worst but surely conditions can be improved at Big Cat Rescue? 

I thought the same thing based on what was shown, so I went to her sanctuary's live cams. The animals were in much larger, more natural looking enclosures than at Joe's zoo. Of course I can't say for certain that all the cats are being housed in optimal conditions based on this, but it was better than what we saw on Tiger King.

I don't know if Joe's threats against Carol had developed to conspiracy or not, but I'm not sorry he got 22 years. He most definitely was guilty of animal abuse. When he was talking about his maltreatment of the chimps and said he got caught up in running the zoo, I rolled my eyes. He got caught up in being the Tiger King: self-aggrandizement, fame & money. He should have gotten charged for the way he treated his staff too.

I hope Doc, Jeff, Stark & Mario get taken down & protective legislation gets passed soon. It was disheartening to learn that there are more tigers held captive in the US than living free in the wild. 

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1 hour ago, raeb23 said:

I agree. It makes for compelling tv but there isn't any real evidence tying her to murder.

There might not be any physical evidence, but from the series it sounds like her husband announced his intention to transfer his assets away from her, and then shortly afterward he mysteriously disappeared - after leaving a letter with someone he trusted, that basically said, "if I disappear, that means my wife killed me."

It's not enough evidence for a criminal conviction, but I think it's enough evidence for the court of public opinion.

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I thought Carole had the coldest affect when talking about her "late" husband. She made sure to mention in her passive aggressive way that he was a really shitty person and a shittier husband. 

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Joe rewinding the part of the show with him on the throne whispering 'I am the tiger king' over and over again in a dark room is creepy as hell.

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