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S04.E18: Strangers: Part Two

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5 minutes ago, The Ringo Kidd said:

But Randall is the outsider. He made himself that by being so arrogant and pompous that he always knows what is right and the other dummies should just shut up and do what he says. Even his wife. 

Hey guess what pal? Your failure brother is an insanely rich and talented movie star who is a household name. You needed him to win your stupid election. 
 

If I were Kevin I would never talk to him again.

 

Oh he's the outsider because he's arrogant and pompous? I guess it has nothing to do with the color of his skin  or the fact that he was adopted and raised by people who look nothing like him and have no idea what it's like to live in his skin. In a world that's all too ready to remind you how different you are, you not even safe from that in your own house with a jerk like Kevin for a brother.

Just now, Racj82 said:

Knock yourself out! Have a good one.

Yeah same to you.

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What I want to know is just how Kate and Toby afford the adoption! They aren't cheap - and as they themselves said, they already have a huge mortgage in an expensive area, a special needs child who will no doubt need doctors and programs, and it's only Toby working. Funny how money is never really an issue in TVLand (unless the writers decide it's part of a plot...)

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14 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

C'mon. That's not fair. For what it's worth, I am black woman. I am critical of Randall probably because I'm a lot like him. I also suffer from anxiety; I'm a perfectionist; I can be a "control freak" (but I'm a Virgo, so you know). I know the stress that it puts on family and friends when you lean so heavily on them due to panic attacks, which is why I sought help. That's why Randall's attitude towards therapy this season has annoyed the living shit out of me. I also want to play hero to my grandparents; anytime they have an ailment, I want to fly them to where I am, so they can go to one of the best hospitals in the country. I *completely* understand where Randall is coming from in his actions, which is why I don't hate him. He is a fully written character, and Sterling has done an excellent job portraying him. However, as much as I love the people in my life, I'm not required to like them at all times. Right now, I'm not liking Randall. And you know what? That's okay because I trust what this show is doing. These characters, like Randall, are us. Sometimes, I know I can be impossible, but that doesn't mean I'm any less deserving of love, and I feel the same way about Randall. 

Just really take a look at some of the responses when it comes to Randall and tell me the thoughts doesn't cross your mind.

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Here is an unpopular opinion. Any adopted child would be an outsider because they are not blood. Black and white really doesn’t have a lot to do with in this case.

I know several adopted people and they all tell me that they feel like outsiders regardless of how much their family might say that is not the fact. 
 

Sad but true.

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2 hours ago, leftlane said:

WTF does her weight have to do with her providing a loving home for a child. Get out of here with that fatphobic nonsense.

I have several family members who have adopted (admittedly, many years ago) and the health of prospective parents was absolutely something that agencies looked at when placing a child.  I know "fat shaming" is supposed to be taboo these days, but I don't think anyone could objectively consider Kate to be the picture of health. 

Edited by Bulldog
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2 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

I have several family members who have adopted (admittedly, many years ago) and the health of prospective parents was absolutely something that agencies looked at when placing a child.  I know "fat shaming" is supposed to be taboo these days, but I don't think anyone could objectively consider Kate to be the picture of health. 

I feel kind bad but Everytime I looked at Katie this week I'm like my God she is huge. I remember a lot of talk about how great she looks these days and all the weight she has lost. I've never seen that. Keep in mind I have my own weight issues but I would lose my mind if I ever got that big.

Examining her weight in regards to adoption is not fat shaming though. It's the same questions that were raised when she got pregnant in the first place. Her weight made being pregnant extremely dangerous and her weight makes her life expectancy very much in doubt. These factors matter. It doesn't mean that she doesn't deserve to adopt. She's not just obese. Not even morbidly obese at this point. It's a topic that should be addressed. And onto financially, they shouldn't be able to swing this right now.

The plotline, in theory, is sweet and beautiful. The reality brings up rational questions though.

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16 minutes ago, SnarkySheep said:

What I want to know is just how Kate and Toby afford the adoption! They aren't cheap - and as they themselves said, they already have a huge mortgage in an expensive area, a special needs child who will no doubt need doctors and programs, and it's only Toby working. Funny how money is never really an issue in TVLand (unless the writers decide it's part of a plot...)

Adopting from foster care is not expensive.

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They were aged mucj more than 10 years at the end so I think the kids at the end are Kevin’s grandchildren and Kate is the dying person that everyone is visiting. 

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3 hours ago, leftlane said:

WTF does her weight have to do with her providing a loving home for a child. Get out of here with that fatphobic nonsense.

Unfortunately lots of countries restrict international adoption by BMI and possibly some private agencies too. It's also very unlikely that any doctor would have went through with Kate's fertility treatment. I know they discussed it being a risk on the show but the doctor was ultimately swayed. In reality many fertility clinics have strict BMI guidelines and if you're over it, they won't even consider you a candidate (it's usually in the 30-40 range). I have a good friend who is overweight and struggling to conceive because her husband is infertile. She's healthy and has no reproductive issues but so far she hasn't found a clinic that will perform IVF on her and I'd say she weighs about 100 pounds less than Kate but is still considerably overweight. I know she's also looked into adoption and all the info she's come across has said it's unlikely she'd be chosen at her size. It's a shame because she and her husband would make wonderful parents.  

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Randall’s “disdain” for Kevin’s acting career is not much different from Jack’s disregard for Rebecca’s renewed singing career. 
 

I don’t think Kate will automatically side with Kevin. How will she respond to what Kevin said to Randall while she is considering adoption?  Obviously, we see her with Kevin at their birthday party but she could be there more for Madison. 
 

In terms of the adoption, maybe they will go the surrogate route? Or maybe Toby’s brother dies and they are the guardians? 
 

Toby’s adoption declaration mirrors Jack’s decision to adopt Randall. 

Edited by memememe76
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Maybe Randall was right about the trial.  Rebecca lasted at least another 10 yrs, so she did have a future (though we don't know what that quality of life was).

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16 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

Randall’s “disdain” for Kevin’s acting career is not much different from Jack’s disregard for Rebecca’s renewed singing career. 

Except that Kevin has arguably been quiet successful, as measured by fame and money, so Randall is mostly jealous of Kevin's success.

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17 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

Randall’s “disdain” for Kevin’s acting career is not much different from Jack’s disregard for Rebecca’s renewed singing career. 
 

I don’t think Kate will automatically side with Kevin. How will she respond to what Kevin said to Randall while she is considering adoption?  Obviously, we see her with Kevin at their birthday party but she could be there more for Madison. 
 

In terms of the adoption, maybe they will go the surrogate route? Or maybe Toby’s brother dies and they are the guardians? 
 

Toby’s adoption declaration mirrors Jack’s decision to adopt Randall. 

Your first paragraph I think is deliberate. I've seen many parallels between Jack and Randall over the years. For both the good and the bad.

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6 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

Well, of the 3 she is the one with the heartiest appetite, so the better to chew that food with, I suppose. 😉

Haha! Kate is fat. She needs teeth to get fat!  Great joke!  

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

Keep in mind I have my own weight issues but I would lose my mind if I ever got that big.

Hmmmmm....

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8 minutes ago, pennben said:

 

Hmmmmm....

For me, barring a outstanding health reason, I would have had to just completely give up in order to get to Kate's size and I would indeed lose my mind. I'm my own biggest critic after all.

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1 hour ago, bybrandy said:

Adopting from foster care is not expensive.

Right, but from the snippet they showed Kate and Toby looking at pictures of lots of babies, which made me think private adoption.

I guess we'll have to wait til next season when they specify more.

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Fair enough @Racj82. It just makes me sad that there is judgment not only for the character, but also the actress herself. 
 

I hear you though. Who knows what each of us has been through; who knows our greatest fears!

Be well. 

Edited by pennben

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22 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Except that Kevin has arguably been quiet successful, as measured by fame and money, so Randall is mostly jealous of Kevin's success.

Rebecca was only Pittsburgh good.

Kevin turned out to be Hollywood good.

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On 3/25/2020 at 2:02 PM, saber5055 said:

Problem #3: Everyone eats, then leaves Rebecca to do the dishes? WTH people!

Question: So blind baby Jack ends up being able to see just fine in the future? Maybe a dying Kate willed him her corneas ... That could be a good episode.

Yes to the craziness of Rebecca doing the dishes (they must have a dishwasher), but perhaps she likes to feel useful.

No, Jack is still blind in the future.  He can perhaps see light and shadows.  We even saw his cane.

On 3/25/2020 at 6:17 PM, greeneyedscorpio said:

And then HE lied when Kevin asked him what he said to Rebecca to get her to change her mind.  Told Kevin, "I don't know what you're talking about."  

I think Kevin (and Kate) were really slow on the uptake.  If Randall didn't know what Rebecca was going to say, he should have had a huge, happy reaction when she announced that she was going to enter the trial.  Instead, he was extremely calm.  It should have been immediately clear that he was not at all surprised.

On 3/25/2020 at 7:21 PM, leftlane said:

Are you serious right now? Ashamed of him for being an asshole and a screw up. Kevin as a kid and teen was a bully, bad student, and frequently blew off his responsibilities to his family. Jack said he was disappointed and ashamed of his behavior multiple times. I don't know how folks aren't remembering this stuff. Kevin was a difficult kid to raise. All of the kids were in their own ways.

Serious, indeed.  I don't for a minute think Jack's final feelings about Kevin were those of shame. He was certainly disappointed in his behavior, but he wasn't ashamed of Kevin, as in regretting being his father, the way Randall implied.  We probably are just in disagreement about the definition of "ashamed."

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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I can remember one of my sisters, once she got a great job, lavishing my mom with all sorts of fun outings and trips.  Then she got in an argument with another of my sisters and called to vent.  When my mom refused to take sides, that sister actually said, “And after all I’ve done for you!”  I can tell you that the relationship has never really been the same since.  My mom was furious and devastated, and we all now know her gifts come with payment due (frankly, we always knew, but thought mom was exempt).  Right now, Randall is that sister.  I assume we are setting him up for a pride before the fall situation.

I wonder if Kevin flies out to St. Louis to ask Rebecca again what she wants and, with Miguel’s help, gets her out of the study.

ETA:  Sterling’s take on the fight.  He is delightful!

Edited by Crs97
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5 hours ago, sandyskyblue said:

I haven't read every comment yet, I have a theory about Randall and his relationship with Kevin, and as far as I know, no one has brought this up, so maybe I'm going way out on a limb here, but here goes: 

In an episode of All in the Family, Mike and Archie got into an argument (for those who never watched the show, Mike was Archie's young very liberal son-in-law, Archie was an old school bigot, Mike and his wife, Archie's daughter Gloria, lived with Archie and his wife Edith while Mike attended college) Edith tried to explain to Mike why Archie seemed to hate Mike, she said it was because Archie never went to college, Mike was young, etc, in other words, Archie was jealous of Mike and his potential, while Archie was stuck in a hourly blue collar job.  Then Edith went on to explain why Mike had issues with Archie.  She said that because she and Archie were letting Mike and Gloria live with them, (with the stipulation that Mike and Gloria would pay for all the room and board that she and Archie gave them once Mike got a job), Mike was uncomfortable with all that he and Gloria got from her parents, and knowing that he owed Archie and Edith so much, he was afraid he could never pay them back....in other words, sometimes, when someone gives us so much, we turn on them, because we feel we can never adequately 'pay them back'

Could this be part of the dynamic with Randall and Kevin?  Anytime Randall had a panic attack, who did he call?  Not his parents or Kate, he called Kevin...and then once he met Beth, she began helping through the attacks, too....does Randall feel he owes Kevin so much because Kevin helped him through the attacks and therefore, is he turning on him because he feels like he cannot pay Kevin back for the times when Kevin rescued him?

 

Yes indeed, this is the classic transactional analysis victim-rescuer-oppressor triangle. It’s classic (and was very well known in the 1970s, when Edith was talking it$ explanation for why people turn on those who’ve helped them. It’s very uncomfortable to feel grateful for too long. One comes to resent it. 

13 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

BSerious, indeed.  I don't for a minute think Jack's final feelings about Kevin were those of shame. He was certainly disappointed in his behavior, but he wasn't ashamed of Kevin, as in regretting being his father, the way Randall implied.  We probably are just in disagreement about the definition of "ashamed."

💯. I cannot imagine anything more devastating Than telling someone a dead parent was “ashamed”

which is very different from “annoyed in the moment” or “disappointed that day.”

Kevin’s comeback was mean too but also toothless since he can’t possibly remember the day Randall came home.

 

for me “Hope”

recalled “Thirtysomething.” It was main characters name and also how one episode ended when the main characters found a diary of a woman from WWII.

did Ken Olin direct?

i also thought kate looked heavier than usual. I love her but it’s worrying.

 

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13 hours ago, nilyank said:

I also think what is setting off both Kevin and Randall is the anxiety and anger that they are feeling because their mother is gravely ill.

To handle it, Kevin wants to make everything easier for her by letting her do her own thing. Meanwhile, Randall is trying to fix and control things.

However deep down both of them know that this illness is never going to be cured and it is only going to get worse. They lost their father tragically and never got a chance to say goodbye. Meanwhile, they are going to lose their mother and at the end, she may not even recognize them when they do say goodbye.

They can't really express their feelings to their mother so they turn on each other. 

 

I think it was wrong for Randall to coerce hiS mom, but I do understand his desperation to prolong his moms life. And I think he doesn’t understand why Kate and Kevin don’t share that desperation.

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I loved Beth's oh damn and all her reactions this week. Also, back to reiterate fuck Randall. I used to love him but I hate all him now. #TeamKevin

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Has anyone considered that Madison loses the twins and Kevin ends up marrying another person and/ or has kids with another person later in life...and that is why Kevin looks much too old when we see him in the future w his kids?

I can't wait to see how Beth reacts to Randall when she finds out what he said to Kevin. Some of Randalls words hit me in the gut! I wonder if Beth and/ or Rebecca will make them reconcile?  Or will something bad happen to one of Randalls kids? Or will Randall have another panic attack and need Kevin? Will the therapist finally get through to Randall?

Out of shape purse scratcher. Haha.

Please tell me Chrissy Metz is wearing padding.

Hope this show can come back as scheduled next season, given the current public health crisis.

Edited by mansfolly · Reason: spelling
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1 hour ago, pennben said:

Fair enough @Racj82. It just makes me sad that there is judgment not only for the character, but also the actress herself. 
 

I hear you though. Who knows what each of us has been through; who knows our greatest fears!

Be well. 

I'm don't mean to judge Chrissy. 

It's one of those situations. She doesn't deserve to be fat shamed. She should be allowed to live her life and not insulted for her body.

On the other hand, being morbidly obese shouldn't be celebrated and she is in the position to be able to take better care of herself with different resources. 

I'm not particularly judging her. I want better for her. That amount weight is just so unhealthy. Doesn't mean she deserves ridicule.

ETA: I just read up and she is not wearing  padding. She did sign on to the show knowing that her character was to lose some weight along the way. She's about being body positive and being healthy in a unconventional way. I understand that but I hope for her sake she gets a little more conventional in the future.

Edited by Racj82
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6 minutes ago, mansfolly said:

Has anyone considered that Madison loses the twins and Kevin ends up marrying another person and/ or has kids with another person later in life...and that is why Kevin looks much too old when we see him in the future w his kids?

Twins with two separate women in the space of 5 or 6 years seems a bit much.  Of course I'm one of the people who didn't think the twins were a young as others.  They looked 12 ish to me which would be 13 years in the future. 

Honestly, living 10+ years after diagnosis with most forms of dementia and at Rebecca's age is about as much as is reasonable.  Alzheimer's is one of the slower progressing forms of dementia and it has an average life expectancy of 8 to 10 years after diagnosis (that average going down older the person at the time of diagnosis).

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I have a question. When we see Kevin's kids, they look like they can't be more than 10 years old. Yet both Kevin and Randall look way older than 50 in that scene. If Kevin becomes a dad at 40, then I think something is wrong with the math. Could he have had those kids with someone else and not Madison?

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3 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

What I want to know is just how Kate and Toby afford the adoption! They aren't cheap - and as they themselves said, they already have a huge mortgage in an expensive area, a special needs child who will no doubt need doctors and programs, and it's only Toby working. Funny how money is never really an issue in TVLand (unless the writers decide it's part of a plot...)

I'm sure Kevin will be happy to help out. He must have made a stupid amount of money on that (inter)national cologne ad, especially if he's a "spokesperson" for the brand and will be hired to shoot more ads for it in the future.

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30 minutes ago, OhSarah69 said:

I have a question. When we see Kevin's kids, they look like they can't be more than 10 years old. Yet both Kevin and Randall look way older than 50 in that scene. If Kevin becomes a dad at 40, then I think something is wrong with the math. Could he have had those kids with someone else and not Madison?

Maybe the show wants to use those kids actors and probably know that there they are a growth spurt away from looking like full blown teenagers. They wouldn't want How I Met Your Mother where they uses footage they had nearly a decade before for the final (horrible) episode of the show.

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On 3/24/2020 at 10:11 PM, ByaNose said:

Yeah, I was trying to figure out if Uncle Nicky is married to someone in the flash forward. If so......who?

I’ll guess the little red-headed horse girl!  🤪

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2 hours ago, SadieT said:

Unfortunately lots of countries restrict international adoption by BMI and possibly some private agencies too. It's also very unlikely that any doctor would have went through with Kate's fertility treatment. I know they discussed it being a risk on the show but the doctor was ultimately swayed. In reality many fertility clinics have strict BMI guidelines and if you're over it, they won't even consider you a candidate (it's usually in the 30-40 range). I have a good friend who is overweight and struggling to conceive because her husband is infertile. She's healthy and has no reproductive issues but so far she hasn't found a clinic that will perform IVF on her and I'd say she weighs about 100 pounds less than Kate but is still considerably overweight. I know she's also looked into adoption and all the info she's come across has said it's unlikely she'd be chosen at her size. It's a shame because she and her husband would make wonderful parents.  

Like I said in my other comment, Kate is white, wealthy, married, and twin to a hot celebrity. Her weight is not going to be an issue with adopting a child when she has all that going for her and she's active. She's fat not bedridden. Sheesh. This is nothing more than the typical fatphobic nonsense I see in these threads whenever Kate comes up. 😒

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4 hours ago, PepSinger said:

C'mon. That's not fair. For what it's worth, I am black woman. I am critical of Randall probably because I'm a lot like him. I also suffer from anxiety; I'm a perfectionist; I can be a "control freak" (but I'm a Virgo, so you know). I know the stress that it puts on family and friends when you lean so heavily on them due to panic attacks, which is why I sought help. That's why Randall's attitude towards therapy this season has annoyed the living shit out of me. I also want to play hero to my grandparents; anytime they have an ailment, I want to fly them to where I am, so they can go to one of the best hospitals in the country. I *completely* understand where Randall is coming from in his actions, which is why I don't hate him. He is a fully written character, and Sterling has done an excellent job portraying him. However, as much as I love the people in my life, I'm not required to like them at all times. Right now, I'm not liking Randall. And you know what? That's okay because I trust what this show is doing. These characters, like Randall, are us. Sometimes, I know I can be impossible, but that doesn't mean I'm any less deserving of love, and I feel the same way about Randall. 

I'm not talking about being critical of Randall because I am too. I'm talking about the vitriol that I didn't even see Nicky's character receive and he killed a kid. Some of the posts in here are calling for Randall's death. It's ridiculous and pretty telling. At the very least, both Kevin and Randall were wrong, but people seem to be incapable of calling out Kevin's consistently terrible behavior while going in on Randall for everything. 

In this case, Randall wasn't even the one that started the low blows. Kevin started it when he said that hurtful comment again about how Jack would've lived if he was there. Kevin always makes mean and hurtful comments, but no one ever seems to notice because he's attractive.

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10 hours ago, leftlane said:

I'm not talking about being critical of Randall because I am too. I'm talking about the vitriol that I didn't even see Nicky's character receive and he killed a kid.

I don't necessarily disagree with your point generally.  But I don't think Nicky is a good comparison.  Nicky is not a central character.  So the audience is waaaay less invested in him. 

Also, killing that child (as well as the war itself) broke him. So, while his conduct and harm caused were horrible, his situation, especially 40 years later, was pitiable. 

I'm not sure people would have been as quick to accept Nicky if he was still a raging drug user causing harm. A 65+ year old man who'd spent the last 4 decades punishing himself was another situation.

Edited by RachelKM
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2 hours ago, leftlane said:

I never said adoption agencies don't consider a person's health as a criteria for child placement. I simply said her being obese has nothing to do with her ability to successfully adopt a child.

I worked for an adoption agency (I did not make the rules) and the parents were required to pass a physical. Based strictly on Kate's age and weight it would make it difficult for her to adopt an infant (she would have an easier time adopting an older child). 

But this is a tv show and she has a famous brother so....

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My friend many years ago had a son and wanted to adopt (he was grade school then) and they rejected her because her husband had a benign tumor on his neck that made him hunch over a bit. He worked, he is still doing fine (20 years later) but they thought it would be an issue or maybe thought it would change. They would have been great parents and didn't want a baby. I realize different places/states have different rules but that made me think the Pearson's wouldn't get in the door. Kate's weight might give pause, not the number, but her health and how well she gets around. I would hope a physical is part of it.  Being new parents to a legally blind baby and marriage isn't rock solid either.  They can lie about that but not the stress of a new baby who needs extra care.

This is TV and they of course get a sister for Jack, but it's not as easy in real life. I can remember when being single, rich or poor or a movie star made adopting almost nil. I'm glad they loosened the rules there and see a loving parent with friends and family can be as good as a couple.

Edited by debraran
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7 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I don’t think Kate will automatically side with Kevin. How will she respond to what Kevin said to Randall while she is considering adoption? 

She does not have much ground to stand on since she once called Randall 'not a real Pearson'. That said I find it extremely frustrating that we rarely see how Kate fits into the brothers' dynamic. In season one the show made a big deal of the 'twin' bond between Kevin and Kate (for example when Kate had appendicitis) that was later completely dropped. When Kevin spiraled into addiction Kate was more or less oblivious. And we rarely ever get a scene between Randall and Kate. Or Kate and Beth for that matter.

We also never got much insight into Kate's thoughts about the drug trial - she was willing to go along when Randall made the suggestion and also accepted what she thought was Rebecca's decision.

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I don't understand why it's not okay to talk about Kate's physical condition. It's very much a part of her character and the focus of much of her story. Talking about the actress is another matter. Kate's health, and Toby's medical history would surely be taken into account for adoption. So would their financial status (questionable, since Kate herself just brought it up). But they are good, loving people and if they are going for an older child, I'm sure they would be welcomed. I'm also sure Kevin would help them with the up front costs if needed.

I've said it before, but this show is so perfectly named. There is something to relate to for almost everyone. FWIW, my parents were 40 and 44 and had four bio sons when they adopted me (as an infant), only my dad worked (a regular job), and my mom was a very heavy woman. The 60s were a very different time.

 

Edited by gonzosgirrl · Reason: ffs because I am incapable of posting without typos
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In terms of the fight, both brothers said things they shouldn't have, hurtful things that are going to be hard to come back from.

In terms of the catalyst for said fight, I firmly believe that Randall was in the wrong. He should not have guilted Rebecca into doing the trial. Yes, Randall seems to think this is the best option, but there are all kinds of variables that it doesn't seem like he considered. 1) They call it a trial for a reason. The drug may not be as effective as the trial runners think. 2) She may get the placebo. 3) The stress and uncertainty of uprooting her life (for the second time in a year) may exacerbate Rebecca's memory loss. Sometimes people with dementia decline more quickly when they are removed from their familiar surroundings. 4) Much of Rebecca's support system will now be halfway across the country in either direction. How is that fair to her?

Plus, Rebecca flat-out said she didn't want to do it. She still has the capacity to make her own decisions, medical or otherwise. Randall is stomping all over what Rebecca wants with his own wants. And what's more, he can't seem to recognize that the things she's doing with Kevin are things she wants to do. Randall accused Kevin of dragging her to the movie premiere without seeming to consider that maybe, just maybe, Rebecca wanted to go.

And look, I get it. I have anxiety, too, (though not as deep as Randall's) so I understand the need to try to take control when things are spiraling. But Randall does not have the right to guilt his mother into doing something she specifically said she does not want to do just because he feels like he knows better. Randall does not have the right to let his mother make the announcement that she changed her mind about the trial and try to hide/deny that he talked her into it.

And I say all this as someone who likes Randall.

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7 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

Right, but from the snippet they showed Kate and Toby looking at pictures of lots of babies, which made me think private adoption.

I guess we'll have to wait til next season when they specify more.

Not really.  Domestic private adoptions are already rare and ones of kids already born (that aren’t family) are even more so.  In both Canada and the US, adoptive parents are picked by the birthparents.  These kids are likely part of a state site.  Some jurisdictions offer these services once potential adoptive parents have gone through their home study. Of course, privacy is protected - you need to log in to view the profiles. 
 

 

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The show loves to surprise, that went dormant for awhile but now we have mommy Madison and some twins in the future along with Kate and Toby's daughter, so the premiere next season (or year) could have a few.  We know from the past episode of the 40th birthday that Rebecca is not in the drug trial and has worsened.  We just don't know what happened to that trial and there are many possibilities.  One of them is that Randall sees the error of his ways and relents on his insistence, and withdraws somewhat from the family.  He's not there, but he is calling Rebecca on her phone that she forgot at the grocery store.  Randall and Kevin are together at Rebecca's death.  So the horrible things that were said and who was worse ultimately don't matter.  One of them took care of their mother earlier in life, the other one, later.  Some balance, symmetry.  They don't have to be best friends; they both end up losing her together, though.

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7 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

Right, but from the snippet they showed Kate and Toby looking at pictures of lots of babies, which made me think private adoption.

I guess we'll have to wait til next season when they specify more.

I'm in no way accusing this show of being realistic.  But there aren't really private adoption options where they have a bunch of newborns waiting to be placed.   Babies of color or babies with health issues are not as quick to place as healthy white infants but they do get placed.  Private adoption agencies in this country aren't sitting on websites full of pre  born infants.  Unless Toby and Kate are looking to adopt internationally (but the babies didn't look of one particular race) then they are (based on their being a catalogue of children to pick from) looking through the foster care option.   But again, I mean, or not.    Because television.

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merged post

Edited by Blackie · Reason: merged post

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On 3/24/2020 at 10:17 PM, Lily H said:

I thought Kevin was aged way too much in the last scene (Rebecca's deathbed). Judging from the look of his twins, 10 years or less has elapsed, but Kevin looks 20+ years older.

 

Kevin's kid is about 10 and they have aged Kevin and Randall about 30 years, and Rebecca about 40.

Ok I starting reading through and I see others had the exact same thought.

Unless after the great pandemic of 2020 all anti aging procedures and products are banned.

Edited by Blackie · Reason: eta and to merge posts
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2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't understand why it's not okay to talk about Kate's physical condition. It's very much a part of her character and the focus of much of her story. Talking about the actress is another matter. Kate's health, and Toby's medical history would surely be taken into account for adoption. So would their financial status (questionable, since Kate herself just brought it up). But they are good, loving people and if they are going for an older child, I'm sure they would be welcomed. I'm also sure Kevin would help them with the up front costs if needed.

I've said it before, but this show is so perfectly named. There is something to relate to for almost everyone. FWIW, my parents were 40 and 44 and had four bio sons when they adopted me (as an infant), only my dad worked (a regular job). and my mom was a very heavy woman. The 60s were a very different time.

 

I am one of the posters who feels it is only acceptable to talk about Kate's weight when it directly affects what we have seen in the show.  Talking about it here when she and Toby are considering adoption is fair because it relates to what we see in the episode.  What I dislike are the posters who comment on Chrissy Metz's weight in every episode thread when she appears. 

If it doesn't have to do with the meat of the episode, then take it over to the Kate thread.  There is a place to bitch about how fat Chrissy is, please use it.  

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I post on several blogs about fashion and they all have a strict policy about discussing the weight of actors and models which is simply: don't do it. I wish there was something similar in place here. Talk about Kate's weight is okay - about Chrissy's not so much.

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46 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

For the record, it isn't babies that Kate and Toby are looking at on the phone.

kate.JPG

Yep.  This looks like a public adoption program  to me.

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They wont forget these times forever. Kevin running to Randall and holding him says a lot too.

 

Edited by debraran
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8 hours ago, OhSarah69 said:

I have a question. When we see Kevin's kids, they look like they can't be more than 10 years old. Yet both Kevin and Randall look way older than 50 in that scene. If Kevin becomes a dad at 40, then I think something is wrong with the math. Could he have had those kids with someone else and not Madison?

One of Sterling's Instagram posts mentioned that the "deathbed" scene takes place in the year 2045.  If that's true, that would make the Big 3 65 years old.  If that year is true, then Kevin and Madison's twins would be 24 or 25 years old.  I'm guessing Kevin eventually has more children in addition to the twins.

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In this case, Randall wasn't even the one that started the low blows. Kevin started it when he said that hurtful comment again about how Jack would've lived if he was there.

If you roll the tape from the start of the fight, you will see the low blows start well before that point. Randall starts it off by stating that Kevin doesn't get to show up for one day after 40 years of neglect and decide what is right. That Kevin wanting to support his mother's medical decision is all about Kevin thinking only about himself which is all he ever does.  The fight started low and they just kept digging. 

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Kevin always makes mean and hurtful comments, but no one ever seems to notice because he's attractive.

Randall is extremely attractive as well. 

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