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COVID-19: This Topic Requires No Social Distancing

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19 hours ago, Ranger Bob said:

Also, there may well be a natural predator here in the US that they've never dealt with before...  Genocide Falcons?  

Fuck. I haven't gotten my plague of the month calendar. Are Genocide Falcons scheduled for June?

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31 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

Right now, though, I'm re-reading The Hunger Games

I never read or saw The Hunger Games, but I know what it's about and was just thinking today while listening to the news that the patchwork quilt of places opening up social gatherings and places of work probably feels like a Hunger Games scenario to those who would rather not be exposed but don't have a lot of options. 😞

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26 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

Fuck. I haven't gotten my plague of the month calendar. Are Genocide Falcons scheduled for June?

God, I hope so! 

If not lets hope for Holocaust Eagles!  

 

😛

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I'm wondering why I even bother trying to do what I can if it inconveniences me in the least.

NBC news tonight had a heartwarming story about a high school principal in Texas who drove 800 miles over 12 days to see each of his 600+ seniors, to give them a note and a Snickers bar.  The reporter said he did it from six feet away.  I noticed that he's well over 60 and is, shall we say, rotund.  (No clue on any other extra risks he may have, but as always, if he wants to kill himself, be my guest, but keep it to yourself.)

There were some photos of his visits, including a big montage at the end, and a lot of them sure didn't look like six feet away.  They didn't show him handing them the card and the candy bar, but even if they stood as far away as possible during the exchange, that would still be four feet, and awkward because they'd have their arms at maximum extension (and his torso would be a lot closer than that).

Plus he was wearing a mask sometimes, and sometimes not. 

Here's the story (with a video that I can't watch because my internet hates videos; I'm assuming it's what I saw on TV):

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/texas-principal-drives-800-miles-to-visit-graduating-seniors-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-83057733925

If it took him 12 days to do it, he was driving around visiting these people when Texas was under a stay-at-home order that began on April 2 and ended on April 30.  Plus, they weren't going to be graduating until May 23, so what was the big rush?  If he insisted on doing it, why couldn't he at least wait until after the stay-at-home order expired?  What example is he setting when he drives around and visits 600 of them well before graduation, while violating a stay-at-home order and not maintaining social distancing?  And wear the fucking mask!  Optics, man.

Some example he is.

But in perhaps cheerier news from the DFW area, the lady in Dallas who kept her beauty salon open despite a citation, a cease-and-desist letter (which she publicly ripped up--edit: it may have been the citation she publicly ripped up; whichever, not a wise move), and a restraining order, had her day in court.  She said she needed to feed her family, and her stylists needed to feed their families.  According to the Texas Tribune, she also testified that she got a government loan. 

She got seven days in jail and fines of at least $3,500, according to the New York Times.  Her lawyer is reported as saying it would be particularly tragic if she contracted the coronavirus while in jail.  Indeed.

If you do an internet search, you'll of course find a gofundme page for this "American Hero that has decided to resist tyranny."  Over $100,000 so far.  (BTW, when did "who" become verboten, and people are referred to as "that"?)

And speaking of protests, can we claw back the $600/week in extra unemployment benefits that anyone attending a protest gets?  You're being paid to stay home, assholes.

Edited by StatisticalOutlier
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A bit of rumination on my lovely state.

I find it a bit disingenuous that they are opening restaurants, hair salons, movie theaters and malls but they are not opening government offices.  Not that I want to force government workers to work.  But there is a bit of if you believe what you say then do as you say in the back of my head.

Also, they have apparently changed how they are reporting new cases and aren't being entirely transparent about it.  And its making it seem like there is a larger drop in the curve than there is.  Basically they changed from tracking the date of the result to tracking the date of the symptoms or test, so the last two weeks of the charts they are showing don't have complete data.  Not that there is anyway to project it that isn't going to cause confusion because ramping up testing can be misleading too.  But don't be vague and evasive about it.

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Sometimes I find myself really struggling to try to understand the thinking of people resisting masks and “lockdown” and screaming to reopen everything. Without getting political, these seem to be some of the same people who are afraid of/angry about far more hypothetical threats, as well as actual events that have wrought far fewer casualties. ("Lockdown" in quotation marks because we can still move about with some stipulations--and meaning that these people aren't even railing about their "rights"; they're whining about relatively minor inconveniences.)

Oh, and editing to add that they’re implying that those who are cooperating are big scared babies while THEY are crying over...

haircuts.

Edited by TattleTeeny
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They recently reopened parks in my area. My mental health has been taking a toll from this and other things going on in my life right now, so I met up with one friend at local park today. (We've both been self-quarantining as much as possible since this whole thing started). I have to say that I am really impressed  that the park was not full and everybody maintained adequate social distancing. It was nice to get out and enjoy nature for a bit. The ducks and squirrels were SO GREEDY (we brought birdseed and peanuts). I guess they missed getting snacks from humans while the park was closed.

On the other hand, a park in Miami had to close down after just one day due to hundreds trying to crowd themselves in at once and large groups gathering together. Sigh.

I'll never understand the need or desire to be surrounded by large crowds of people-- especially now, when it's such a huge risk to your life. I wish someone could make me understand this.

 

 

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5 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Sometimes I find myself really struggling to try to understand the thinking of people resisting masks and “lockdown” and screaming to reopen everything. Without getting political, these seem to be some of the same people who are afraid of/angry about far more hypothetical threats, as well as actual events that have wrought far fewer casualties. ("Lockdown" in quotation marks because we can still move about with some stipulations--and meaning that these people aren't even railing about their "rights"; they're whining about relatively minor inconveniences.)

Oh, and editing to add that they’re implying that those who are cooperating are big scared babies while THEY are crying over...

haircuts.

Same here. I was called "negative" when I talked to someone who is loving all of the protests and passing around a video that has been shared a lot. Apparently, protesters with guns aren't negative, neither are viral videos making out that doctors and nurses are lying to us all. But me admitting that I'm scared of what the agitators might cause? I need to lighten up, go with the flow. Apparently, potentially millions of people being killed by the virus isn't negative, either.

 

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1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

Fuck that shit, man! Are those assholes not the same people who scream about the right to their personal arsenals so that they can protect their families? But wait--now here's an actual, nonhypothetical threat to their families and they not only do the exact opposite of protecting them, but they mock and menace those who are. 

As if you need any more evidence that these types are garbage, a security guard at a Flint, Michigan Dollar Store was murdered by a couple of people just for telling them they needed to wear face masks to go in the store.

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18 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

As for the MTV stuff, if Beavis & Butt-head aren't providing insightful commentary on the videos, they don't hold much appeal to me. 

Agreed. It's been a million years since I've seen them do that, but when Spotify or Pandora slides in a questionable song I still say in Butt-head's voice "What the hell is this crap?"

The worst (meaning worst experience going there) local supermarket has finally calmed down for me.  I needed several items, so I went there last night around 6:30.  No lines. Sparsely populated in general. Mostly stocked shelves with the exception of the meat section.

I found myself being myself though with the little one way traffic signs on the aisles. I religiously followed them. Of course I did. Even if there was nobody in the aisle, and I could easily dart in, grab the one thing I need and exit back out. Nope, I looped around and probably passed by like three other people to do so. 

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Yeah, now who are the "snowflakes"--the people minding their business and trying not to make things worse? Or the people who cry and cry over

putting a piece of cloth (which, by the way, some of them were wearing during their protest) over their faces in the liquor store for 15 minutes?

Edited by TattleTeeny
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11 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Oh, and editing to add that they’re implying that those who are cooperating are big scared babies while THEY are crying over...

haircuts.

Good heavens, please don't make me defend these people, but some of them are crying over not having a job or not being able to get one because of the ruination of the economy.  I abhor what they're doing, but it's really not just about haircuts.

I firmly believe that a lot of it is just about being roiled up in general, at some bad actors' bidding.  But that doesn't mean there aren't kernels of truth in there, and I think characterizing their protests as being about haircuts doesn't really advance the ball.  Of course, that's just me being reasonable and rational, which doesn't really advance the ball, either, sadly.

But the thing on haircuts.  I've seen I don't know how many men pay someone to use clippers with some specified guard to cut their hair.  I'm so desperate not to have to go to someone to cut my hair that I've let Mr. Outlier try to teach himself to do mine (pre-pandemic, I'll brag).  If I could just buy some clippers, slap a guard on them, and run them over my head and get the desired result, I'd never darken a haircutter's doorstep again. 

 

1 hour ago, JTMacc99 said:

I found myself being myself though with the little one way traffic signs on the aisles. I religiously followed them. Of course I did. Even if there was nobody in the aisle, and I could easily dart in, grab the one thing I need and exit back out. Nope, I looped around and probably passed by like three other people to do so. 

I darted into an aisle the wrong way about 5 feet to get an item, but only after consideration and assessment of the aisle traffic (of which there was none).  Of course, by darting, I probably panted just a little, which left more vapor in the air for someone to have to walk through eventually.  Although my glasses appear to catch most of the vapor.  😠

I think any darting should be done without a cart.  If you have a cart, you may not dart. 

I also found myself in the cereal aisle, somehow walking past what I was looking for.  May I retrace my steps at that point?  May I turn sideways and move left and right looking for something, or is it like those parking lot spikes in California that eat your tires if you reverse over them--forward motion only?  Which means I'd have to go super slow, which just clogs things up.

In situations like this, I always think of the "rule" we're taught in school, that you can't start a sentence with "and."  Of course you can.  But if you tell kids they can, their essay about their summer vacation will be:  "We went to the beach.  And we had fun.  And we had hot dogs and ice cream.  And my sister threw up in the car.  And my dad yelled at her."

So you have no choice but to them they can't start a sentence with "and."  The ones who would really care will eventually figure out that it can be done for specific reasons, and we're protecting ourselves from the ones who won't.

 

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2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

As if you need any more evidence that these types are garbage, a security guard at a Flint, Michigan Dollar Store was murdered by a couple of people just for telling them they needed to wear face masks to go in the store.

Elsewhere in MI at a Dollar Tree  a man wiped his nose on an employees shirt after being asked to wear a mask.

Quote

 

(CNN)Police in Holly, Michigan, have arrested a 68-year-old man on assault charges after he entered a Dollar Tree on Saturday and wiped his face on an employee's shirt.

Holly Police Chief Jerry Narsh said the man entered the store at around 1:30 p.m. Saturday without a mask, despite an executive order in the state requiring patrons in enclosed public spaces to wear one at all times.

Rex Howard Gomoll of Linden faces misdemeanor charges of assault and battery, Jessica Cooper, the Oakland County prosecutor, told CNN.

 

On one hand, enforcing a mask law is not worth dying over. On the other hand, I'm super annoyed that OK caved to threats and lifted mask requirements instead of making these fuckers face consequences.

Quote

 

(The Hill) Measures requiring people to wear face coverings inside stores and restaurants to prevent the spread of coronavirus in Stillwater, Okla., were lifted by officials Friday after employees from these businesses said that they experienced threats of violence. 

Independent Mayor Will Joyce walked back an emergency order put in place until May 31, requiring the public to wear masks. The measure was amended the same day it was activated on Friday night, according to a news release published by the city. 

As it stands, the changed proclamation requires employees in retail establishments to wear masks, but face coverings are optional for customers. However, the proclamation still strongly advises that people wear masks for their own protection and the protection of others against the coronavirus. 

Anger and frustration about the order reportedly erupted within three hours of its enactment, with opponents verbally abusing employees, threatening physical violence, and, in one instance, threatening gun violence.

City Manager Norman McNickle said that people who objected to mask requirements claimed that the measure was unconstitutional, according to Stillwater News Press.

 

This entire country needs to retake 6th grade Civics. Asking people to stay home, asking people to wear a mask, closing non-essential businesses for a period of time is not trampling on any rights. Having the US Army show up and demand to stay in your home, is.

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Good heavens, please don't make me defend these people, but some of them are crying over not having a job or not being able to get one because of the ruination of the economy.  I abhor what they're doing, but it's really not just about haircuts.

I firmly believe that a lot of it is just about being roiled up in general, at some bad actors' bidding.  But that doesn't mean there aren't kernels of truth in there, and I think characterizing their protests as being about haircuts doesn't really advance the ball.  Of course, that's just me being reasonable and rational, which doesn't really advance the ball, either, sadly.

Oh, I know this--I just chose the seemingly trendy comments re. haircuts as an example. They're all over the place and these asses don't understand how citing superficial incidentals and nonsense* does the opposite of bolstering their point. But you (not YOU-you, obviously--the general "you") know what would help? Expressing valid concerns in a comprehensible (and unarmed) way and maybe trying to slow the spread. Oh, and admitting there is a real problem here. Make your points while wearing the fucking mask and showing concern for people who are not you.

(*The very things they think of other kinds of protests, in many cases.)

Quote

and lifted mask requirements instead of making these fuckers face consequences.

Haha, pun intended?

Edited by TattleTeeny
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45 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

I got a grocery pickup spot tonight! It’s the little things these days....

My grocery store finally has the brand and size of toilet paper I prefer in stock again (the giant pack with 24 mega rolls), for which I am grateful. 

I also admit I'm quite looking forward to new HGTV episodes where the people looking to buy/remodel a house are not all clamoring for completely open floor plans and instead want more closed-off rooms to use as home offices/escape rooms from their kids. No more of this "I must have my spouse and kids in my line of sight every moment" nonsense. 

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If the lockdown gets lifted only if and when a vaccine is available, I’ll probably end up staying in my house forever. No way will I get a rushed-through, virtually untested vaccine that has had no long-term studies done on it. I’m a dinosaur, so I remember the horrors of Thalidomide and DES. Women rushed to get these “miraculous” treatments without knowing the horrific damage they would have on their offspring.

My friend continues to have terrible side effects from the new Shingles vaccine, including brain fog, short term paralysis, continued numbness in extremities and overall compromised range of movement. In no way am I against vaccines in general, but I’d want to know if it will come back to haunt me five years from now. Just my opinion.

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25 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

I also admit I'm quite looking forward to new HGTV episodes where the people looking to buy/remodel a house are not all clamoring for completely open floor plans and instead want more closed-off rooms to use as home offices/escape rooms from their kids. No more of this "I must have my spouse and kids in my line of sight every moment" nonsense. 

I also wonder what it will do to the tiny house movement.  Kill it, hopefully.

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4 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I think any darting should be done without a cart.  If you have a cart, you may not dart. 

😂❤️ so Seinfeldian!

Speaking of carts—

My Governor —who I now love like my childhood teddy bear— is having the daily Q&A right now and was answering questions about how restaurants might function. He mentioned the social distancing issues between servers and customers would need to be worked out.  
So it just occurred to me that the servers should bring food out on a cart and leave it 6 feet from the table. Then the customers would bring it close to the table. 
 

 

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2 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I also wonder what it will do to the tiny house movement.  Kill it, hopefully

Cool. Then I might be able to afford one or two. 
(I live alone in an apartment that would be great if I didn’t hate having neighbors.)

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On 5/5/2020 at 4:04 PM, ams1001 said:

The mention of libraries made me go check my account, because I have a book that was originally due in late March. They had extended the due date to May 1st for all items that were out at the time they closed. Now it's June 1st. 

I have a couple books checked out from my library. They don't even have a projected opening date yet.  The external book drop was closed up until 2 days ago.  The book drop is now going to be opened Mondays from 10 until 2, locked the rest of the time. I'm not sure why they're doing it this way, but my theory is they don't want to have hundreds of books returned all at once on the day they open, and this way they hope to get only a few at a time returned. I did walk to the library and return one of my books, my husband is still reading the other one.

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I was going to smoke a brisket for Mother's Day here but have been unable to find one. So, I sent my mom to Sam's to look for one. She's still working and out and about daily so it was not a big deal to ask her. She said Sam's was completely out of meat. Only had seafood in stock. She talked to the butcher there and they told her the meat supply has gone way down and the only way to get any now is to be first in line and right after the truck arrives. I'm hoping my local grocer has at least ground beef when I am able to go shopping on Friday. If so I'll be grilling burgers with my parents and brother for Mother's Day. We've been getting together all along but technically we move into Phase One on Friday which allows gatherings of 10 people. We will be 9. 

Thankfully, my husband's work has started to pick back up and people are starting to ease into letting him into their homes to do work. He's got a job next week that is 9 hours away. Normally he wouldn't do work that far away but it is to help out a friend and it's at the beach. I was thinking it'd be nice to take the kids down and be at the ocean while he works but nope. Visitors are restricted until that Saturday which doesn't work. He's just going to stay at his friends house I guess since evidently he can't even get a hotel room. 

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1 minute ago, ALenore said:

I have a couple books checked out from my library. They don't even have a projected opening date yet.  The external book drop was closed up until 2 days ago.  The book drop is now going to be opened Mondays from 10 until 2, locked the rest of the time. I'm not sure why they're doing it this way, but my theory is they don't want to have hundreds of books returned all at once on the day they open, and this way they hope to get only a few at a time returned. I did walk to the library and return one of my books, my husband is still reading the other one.

I'm thinking they may be doing that so they could "quarantine" the books for a few days before they had to deal with a new batch.  The last I remember, there were studies that said the virus could last up to 3 days on a surface, so quarantining them for a week before reshelving them should be relatively safe.  Plus what you said - getting everything back at once wouldn't be good.  I think my local library extended my due date to about a week after the projected reopening date.

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We're currently discussing how we can disinfect the entire collection of 3 floors of books and one of bound journals before the campus reopens, or a feasible to close off the half of the building with the books while disinfecting in stages.

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1 minute ago, ABay said:

We're currently discussing how we can disinfect the entire collection of 3 floors of books and one of bound journals before the campus reopens, or a feasible to close off the half of the building with the books while disinfecting in stages.

That's what I sort of don't get.  If the books, etc., have been sitting for weeks untouched by humans, is it still a possibility that the virus could still be on them?  I am definitely not a virologist, but I haven't heard any worst-case scenarios where it could live that long.

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39 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

I'm thinking they may be doing that so they could "quarantine" the books for a few days before they had to deal with a new batch. 

I was thinking the same thing.  

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Not a political post, but I was listening to Andrew Cuomo's press briefing today. He said there are about 600 people still entering the hospital per day, despite the lockdown that's been going on for weeks. So they started a survey trying to figure this out. Survey says (in my best Family Feud voice): the vast majority of these new COVID-19 patients have been at home. Most not working (or, if they were working, it was from home). Yes, Cuomo and his people were surprised. He doesn't understand it.

It's been on my mind all day. Did these people lie on the survey? Claimed to have been at home but actually were out & about at times? Did they have exposure in their grocery-store runs? I am almost obsessed with this puzzle. These people got sick enough to need the hospital... how did they get the virus?

(I know nobody has the answer. Just had to share the interesting -- or unsettling, I should say -- info.)

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1 hour ago, Moose135 said:

What the stylish Moose wears when he goes out these days.

i-pcNNmvJ-XL.jpg

You look divine in blue, dahling.

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1 hour ago, SoMuchTV said:

That's what I sort of don't get.  If the books, etc., have been sitting for weeks untouched by humans, is it still a possibility that the virus could still be on them?  I am definitely not a virologist, but I haven't heard any worst-case scenarios where it could live that long.

Yes, sorry, I misspoke--before we reopen, we have to figure out how we would keep the collection clean.

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27 minutes ago, rubaco said:

Not a political post, but I was listening to Andrew Cuomo's press briefing today. He said there are about 600 people still entering the hospital per day, despite the lockdown that's been going on for weeks. So they started a survey trying to figure this out. Survey says (in my best Family Feud voice): the vast majority of these new COVID-19 patients have been at home. Most not working (or, if they were working, it was from home). Yes, Cuomo and his people were surprised. He doesn't understand it.

It's been on my mind all day. Did these people lie on the survey? Claimed to have been at home but actually were out & about at times? Did they have exposure in their grocery-store runs? I am almost obsessed with this puzzle. These people got sick enough to need the hospital... how did they get the virus?

(I know nobody has the answer. Just had to share the interesting -- or unsettling, I should say -- info.)

My imaginary money would be they didn't lie but they weren't truthful.

"I was at home the whole time" except for the time they

ordered take-out
picked up groceries
hung out with their neighbors "6 ft apart"
let their kid have a friend over because "they're isolating, too"

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Just now, ABay said:

Yes, sorry, I misspoke--before we reopen, we have to figure out how we would keep the collection clean.

Any talk of reverting to blocking access to the collection and using call slips (electronic) and pages?

When I was pushed into early retirement from being an academic librarian, I struggled with a lot of emotions, including shock, fear, anger, etc. 
Now I'm glad it happened.
I just need to remember this principle of life when I get annoyed now.

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42 minutes ago, rubaco said:

Not a political post, but I was listening to Andrew Cuomo's press briefing today. He said there are about 600 people still entering the hospital per day, despite the lockdown that's been going on for weeks. So they started a survey trying to figure this out. Survey says (in my best Family Feud voice): the vast majority of these new COVID-19 patients have been at home. Most not working (or, if they were working, it was from home). Yes, Cuomo and his people were surprised. He doesn't understand it.

It's been on my mind all day. Did these people lie on the survey? Claimed to have been at home but actually were out & about at times? Did they have exposure in their grocery-store runs? I am almost obsessed with this puzzle. These people got sick enough to need the hospital... how did they get the virus?

(I know nobody has the answer. Just had to share the interesting -- or unsettling, I should say -- info.)

"I'll just add that to my list of reasons to die." -- Frasier Crane

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7 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

My imaginary money would be they didn't lie but they weren't truthful.

"I was at home the whole time" except for the time they

ordered take-out
picked up groceries
hung out with their neighbors "6 ft apart"
let their kid have a friend over because "they're isolating, too"

It’s probably one or more of the above.  I’ve been tuning in to Governor Cuomo’s briefings too (I too am not going to go political) so I’m aware of the army of contact tracers being trained to help contain the virus.  Now with these people saying “I’ve been home the entire time” negates this so how many people are any of these newly identified cases are going to identify as potential future cases?

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18 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

My imaginary money would be they didn't lie but they weren't truthful.

"I was at home the whole time" except for the time they

ordered take-out
picked up groceries
hung out with their neighbors "6 ft apart"
let their kid have a friend over because "they're isolating, too"

I would put my money here too.  

I think there would be a tendency to overstating how careful they were being because they don't want to admit to themselves that some of their decision making resulted in risk taking that they hadn't judged properly.

I marvel every day how many people are taking chances that don't seem necessary by the standard of what I've been able to accomplish without contact.  

There are people who have blinders on to safer options because they don't want to see them and don't want to compromise. They really want a reason they "have" to get out of the house.  The only people I confront about it to cut it off before they follow the impulse is my relatives.  Non related adults are on their own.

Edited by ParadoxLost
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My 88-year-old mother and 92-year-old father really want to go to the grocery store for themselves, but I keep telling them they can't.  Their excuse is that there aren't that many cases in their town, to which I reply, "Let's keep it that way!  It's because everyone's staying home!"

So far, they've behaved themselves.

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1 hour ago, rubaco said:

Not a political post, but I was listening to Andrew Cuomo's press briefing today. He said there are about 600 people still entering the hospital per day, despite the lockdown that's been going on for weeks. So they started a survey trying to figure this out. Survey says (in my best Family Feud voice): the vast majority of these new COVID-19 patients have been at home. Most not working (or, if they were working, it was from home). Yes, Cuomo and his people were surprised. He doesn't understand it.

It's been on my mind all day. Did these people lie on the survey? Claimed to have been at home but actually were out & about at times? Did they have exposure in their grocery-store runs? I am almost obsessed with this puzzle. These people got sick enough to need the hospital... how did they get the virus?

(I know nobody has the answer. Just had to share the interesting -- or unsettling, I should say -- info.)

Maybe they got it from their mail? Every piece of mail or package we get sits in the living room (which we really don't use) for 3 or 4 days before we open it, & we always wash our hands immediately after we bring it into the house. Maybe they aren't taking any kind of precautions with their mail.

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I picked up my order from Whole Foods tonight. They had no chicken and no ground beef, but otherwise I got what I ordered. I will have to ration the beef and pork that I did get. I may run to my local Fresh Market early one morning and ask the folks at the butcher counter when they get their deliveries. They are really nice, and for some reason I’ve never seen more than 20 people in the store at a time so it’s less risky. 

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6 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I think there would be a tendency to overstating how careful they were being because they don't want to admit to themselves that some of their decision making resulted in risk taking that they hadn't judged properly.

Exactly.  I have a calendar that I record where I went when I do have to go out and start a countdown (Day 1 is the following day) counting 15 days from my last time being out. Friday will be 15 days from the last time I had any in-person interaction (grocery store) but I did have to make wide berth around people in my walking in my complex when I went to get the mail and there is a kid (maybe young teen) riding his bike in the parking lot without much regard for how closely he's coming to others (and I'm not going to say anything to him or his parents, he's not being malicious, he's just being a kid riding his bike). If I happen to get sick after Friday I'd point to a neighbor I crossed paths with over someone on my errands.

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Re:  Books

The Institute of Museum and Library Services hosted a presentation by two people from the CDC called "Mitigating COVID-19 When Managing Paper-Based, Circulating, and Other Types of Collections." 

https://www.imls.gov/webinars/mitigating-covid-19-when-managing-paper-based-circulating-and-other-types-collections

(Mad props to the person who tipped us off that transcripts of youtube videos are available; I gather they're based on the captions.)

There's a Q&A, and the same question about books gets answered several times over the course of the presentation, and basically, "we are not concerned at all about paper based materials like books being a transmission route."  But librarians have seen it all, so this question was asked:

**Crosby Kemper:** So I think you know, I think I'm sure I speak for a Librarians and probably for Museum folks too, who have some paper based materials, we're pretty sure that with some regularity the people are sneezing on to our books. Of course the question would be how *recently* they've sneezed on it. Do they sneeze on it right before they return it in the dropbox, or to the desk?

If there is concern among librarians, which there is, about that particular circumstance, that an infected person can have discharged in one way or another onto a material, onto a book or a DVD or whatever it might be, what would you recommend if that is the concern?

What is safe handling of that? If there is a 24-hour -- under ideal conditions -- possibility of the virus sustaining, should the books be quarantined for a day before they're brought into human contact?

**Dr: Berendes:** So I would say that one part of this would be on the front end educating your consumers, reminding them, as Catherine said, about good hand hygiene, about symptom monitoring, trying to make sure that people are not are not going out when they're sick and they're staying home.

But also then if you are concerned you could -- if you're very concerned about books in particular, you could leave them for a 24-hour period. Again only if you're really concerned that someone was symptomatic with them during that during the period that they had the book.

Edited by StatisticalOutlier
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1 hour ago, rubaco said:

Not a political post, but I was listening to Andrew Cuomo's press briefing today. He said there are about 600 people still entering the hospital per day, despite the lockdown that's been going on for weeks. So they started a survey trying to figure this out. Survey says (in my best Family Feud voice): the vast majority of these new COVID-19 patients have been at home. Most not working (or, if they were working, it was from home). Yes, Cuomo and his people were surprised. He doesn't understand it.

It's been on my mind all day. Did these people lie on the survey? Claimed to have been at home but actually were out & about at times? Did they have exposure in their grocery-store runs? I am almost obsessed with this puzzle. These people got sick enough to need the hospital... how did they get the virus?

(I know nobody has the answer. Just had to share the interesting -- or unsettling, I should say -- info.)

Looks like John Oliver should be on the case.

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48 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

Exactly.  I have a calendar that I record where I went when I do have to go out and start a countdown (Day 1 is the following day) counting 15 days from my last time being out. Friday will be 15 days from the last time I had any in-person interaction (grocery store) but I did have to make wide berth around people in my walking in my complex when I went to get the mail and there is a kid (maybe young teen) riding his bike in the parking lot without much regard for how closely he's coming to others (and I'm not going to say anything to him or his parents, he's not being malicious, he's just being a kid riding his bike). If I happen to get sick after Friday I'd point to a neighbor I crossed paths with over someone on my errands.

At this point if I got sick it would either be because my sanitizing of Amazon or grocery deliveries were too lackadaisical or my Mom is a liar (and she isn't).

Outside of my Mom, the closest interaction I've had is waving to a delivery person from my door as they drive away.

I've decided to start some weekend visits with my Mom because I'm having more and more conversations where I need to talk her around from conviction that she "needs" to go somewhere and will do it safely to she really "wants" to go somewhere and there a bunch of options that she's ignoring that eliminate the need.

I figure that I'm isolating and she is isolating.  And she's a big worrier about her kids so she's not going to lie about it.  We are a big worrier about her so we're not going to lie about it. 

But at this rate, its becoming clear to me that working 5 days a week makes a huge difference in coping with this versus not having a job or being retired.  So until I'm forced back into the office I think I'm going to isolate more than might be needed just so my Mom has someone she can see/ talk to in person.  Unless she breaks first. I think that her hair is going to break her isolation before I go back into the office.

In other news, we are officially not back into the office at least until July.

Edited by ParadoxLost
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49 minutes ago, GaT said:

Maybe they got it from their mail? Every piece of mail or package we get sits in the living room (which we really don't use) for 3 or 4 days before we open it, & we always wash our hands immediately after we bring it into the house. Maybe they aren't taking any kind of precautions with their mail.

There is no evidence that COVID-19 is transmitted through mail, package delivery or food.

They suggest you wash your hands and wipe down the area but numerous 'puzzle pieces' would have to be in place for someone to contract coronavirus from the mail, including rubbing your eyes, mouth or nose after touching the exact spot a drop of active virus is. Someone posted a link somewhere in this thread that really helped my anxiety about the mail and food
 

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3 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

In other news, we are officially not back into the office at least until July.

I am vicariously comforted by reports like this.

And I realized today that my Governor's (Illinois) daily briefings delivered with a calm, comforting, sensible voice make me feel about him the way I felt about my stuffed bear when I was about 4 years old. 

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20 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

There is no evidence that COVID-19 is transmitted through mail, package delivery or food.

They suggest you wash your hands and wipe down the area but numerous 'puzzle pieces' would have to be in place for someone to contract coronavirus from the mail, including rubbing your eyes, mouth or nose after touching the exact spot a drop of active virus is. Someone posted a link somewhere in this thread that really helped my anxiety about the mail and food
 

Right- my friend who is a nurse explained viral loads to me, which in turn explains why it’s much harder to actually get sick from the mail or food.

my guess about the numbers in New York is that sometimes people think they’re being careful when they’re not really.  Like wearing masks improperly by not covering their noses.  Why even bother?

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2 hours ago, rubaco said:

Not a political post, but I was listening to Andrew Cuomo's press briefing today. He said there are about 600 people still entering the hospital per day, despite the lockdown that's been going on for weeks. So they started a survey trying to figure this out. Survey says (in my best Family Feud voice): the vast majority of these new COVID-19 patients have been at home. Most not working (or, if they were working, it was from home). Yes, Cuomo and his people were surprised. He doesn't understand it.

It's been on my mind all day. Did these people lie on the survey? Claimed to have been at home but actually were out & about at times? Did they have exposure in their grocery-store runs? I am almost obsessed with this puzzle. These people got sick enough to need the hospital... how did they get the virus?

(I know nobody has the answer. Just had to share the interesting -- or unsettling, I should say -- info.)

The key question is if the other people in the household were also at home. Staying home minimizes your potential for exposure but it’s pretty useless if a family member is exposed outside the home. 

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29 minutes ago, Kiki777 said:

my guess about the numbers in New York is that sometimes people think they’re being careful when they’re not really.

My NYC daughter said the stores that opened that are only allowing a few people in at a time have lines around the block with zero social distancing. And it's impossible to social distance on NYC sidewalks.

 

++++++++++++++++

 

Just in case y'all don't already know this (good advice from my youngest daughter): 
When you get home from shopping for groceries, have the sink ready to fill with hot soapy water in lieu of sanitizer.
I dip a terry face cloth into the suds to wipe the outsides packaging of cold items and bananas and such. 

Edited by shapeshifter
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3 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Just in case y'all don't already know this (good advice from my youngest daughter): 
When you get home from shopping for groceries, have the sink ready to fill with hot soapy water in lieu of sanitizer.
I dip a terry face cloth into the suds to wipe the outsides of cold items and bananas and such. 

Please don't wash produce with soap - it's not good for you, or necessary.

Info from the CDC regarding transmission via food and from Cornell University Institute for Food safety about not using soap from the USDA
 

Quote

 

Current guidance from USDA recommends rinsing produce (fruits and vegetables) under cold running water to remove any lingering dirt. If there is a firm surface, such as on apples or carrots, the surface can be scrubbed with a brush under running water without using soap. Do not use soap or a bleach solution. Detergents and bleach solutions are approved for surface application and are not meant to be consumed or used on food; washing your fresh produce in these solutions can make you sick.

For cooked foods, we know that the coronavirus is killed by cooking to the safe minimum cooking temperatures specified by FDA and USDA.

 

 

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