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S07.E17: Before the Fall

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Voight enlists the help of a reformed gang member to get a key witness' testimony in a murder case. More lives are put on the line as a gang war brews.

Airdate: 03/18/2020

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That beatdown made me cringe. I wasn’t surprised when Hank said the preacher had a skull fracture.

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Another poorly written episode.

It clearly was an inside job.  It shouldn't have taken them half the episode to figure that out.  If number one is being gunned down, and number two is just standing there witnessing the hit as it happens, and not running away, number two is in on the hit.

Permasmirk (Upton) can't stop being an obnoxious twit.   She must think that calling Atwater and Ruzek, "kittens" was all sorts of cute.  It wasn't.  Permasmirk is nowhere near as special as she thinks she is.

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I'm no Voight  fan, but I was glad he punched that cop in the face. He endangered both Kevin's and the informant's lives. Kevin's shade was perfect. The rest of the episode was blah.

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4 hours ago, spunky said:

I'm no Voight  fan, but I was glad he punched that cop in the face. He endangered both Kevin's and the informant's lives. Kevin's shade was perfect. The rest of the episode was blah.

"Nice working with you, Paul"  a classic line from Atwater.

 

6 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Another poorly written episode.

Very poorly!

 

6 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Permasmirk (Upton) can't stop being an obnoxious twit.  

Permasmirk, LOL

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3 minutes ago, preeya said:

"Nice working with you, Paul"  a classic line from Atwater.

 

Very poorly!

 

Permasmirk, LOL

Atwater is the most underused character and yet he has the best one liners. 

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8 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Permasmirk (Upton) can't stop being an obnoxious twit.   She must think that calling Atwater and Ruzek, "kittens" was all sorts of cute.  It wasn't.  Permasmirk is nowhere near as special as she thinks she is.

Condscending, obnoxious, hypocritical ....she's ticking all the boxes this season.

I am kinda amused that they were so disgusted that someone wanted revenge for the death of a CI....wasn't it just a couple weeks ago hypocrite Hailey facilitated a murder out of revenge for the death of her CI?

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10 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Another poorly written episode.

It clearly was an inside job.  It shouldn't have taken them half the episode to figure that out.  If number one is being gunned down, and number two is just standing there witnessing the hit as it happens, and not running away, number two is in on the hit.

Permasmirk (Upton) can't stop being an obnoxious twit.   She must think that calling Atwater and Ruzek, "kittens" was all sorts of cute.  It wasn't.  Permasmirk is nowhere near as special as she thinks she is.

Man do I hate Upton. She the type of character that makes me not want to watch a show.

Edited by mommalib
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Did anyone else have an issue with Voight hanging the one guys sexuality over him in order to get information? I thought that was particularly gross. 

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1 hour ago, Dancingjaneway said:

Did anyone else have an issue with Voight hanging the one guys sexuality over him in order to get information? I thought that was particularly gross. 

Voight is gross period.

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11 hours ago, Dancingjaneway said:

Did anyone else have an issue with Voight hanging the one guys sexuality over him in order to get information? I thought that was particularly gross. 

What I think is truly gross is that he had good reason to fear, for his position, his safety, his life, if the other gang members found out about his sexuality.  Voight was using a weakness, the same as when he uses a family member. loved one, job, reputation, or any other thing that can be used to coerce information from a suspect or witness.  If non-heterosexuality weren't a stigma in society--all of society--then it wouldn't be something for Voight to exploit.

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On 3/19/2020 at 10:45 AM, icemiser69 said:

Another poorly written episode.

It clearly was an inside job.  It shouldn't have taken them half the episode to figure that out.  If number one is being gunned down, and number two is just standing there witnessing the hit as it happens, and not running away, number two is in on the hit.

Permasmirk (Upton) can't stop being an obnoxious twit.   She must think that calling Atwater and Ruzek, "kittens" was all sorts of cute.  It wasn't.  Permasmirk is nowhere near as special as she thinks she is.

One thing I've noticed is how Upton is the first female listed in the cast. Must be nice to the fav of the Showrunner. I personally dont think Tracy deserves to be lead female but it's obvious Jay's female partner and next bedmate MUST BE LEAD FEMALE. Marina should be Female lead. But thankfully shes not Jay's female partner since he has to fuck his female partners.  Also its eye roll worthy and gross that the Showrunner has to position Upton as "Female Voight" and also replace Lindsey in every way

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2 hours ago, Josh371982 said:

One thing I've noticed is how Upton is the first female listed in the cast. Must be nice to the fav of the Showrunner. I personally dont think Tracy deserves to be lead female but it's obvious Jay's female partner and next bedmate MUST BE LEAD FEMALE. Marina should be Female lead. But thankfully shes not Jay's female partner since he has to fuck his female partners.  Also its eye roll worthy and gross that the Showrunner has to position Upton as "Female Voight" and also replace Lindsey in every way

Agree all around.

And there is no logical reason why Marina is not The Queen. End of story.

Really liked Voight’s punch. Not gratuitous- just a real reaction. Nice.

Oh, and while I hated to see the ex gang guy get pummeled like that, he totally asked for it multiple times. I’m surprised he and Atwater weren’t shot.

Edited by SG11
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4 hours ago, Josh371982 said:

One thing I've noticed is how Upton is the first female listed in the cast. Must be nice to the fav of the Showrunner. I personally dont think Tracy deserves to be lead female but it's obvious Jay's female partner and next bedmate MUST BE LEAD FEMALE. Marina should be Female lead. But thankfully shes not Jay's female partner since he has to fuck his female partners.  Also its eye roll worthy and gross that the Showrunner has to position Upton as "Female Voight" and also replace Lindsey in every way

Your post is so true. I think Lindsey's empathy always made her character rootable in my opinion. Permasmurk is just an asshole and I cannot stand her. I don't know who is more repulsive Permasmurk or Saint Olivia from  Law &Order SVU.

Edited by Pearson80
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I never liked Lyndsey.  Her attempts at coming off as a badass were ridiculous, and I never liked her close ties with Voight. 

As for Voight's punch, his punch was badass but there was very little damage done to the dude's face.  Surely, there would be more damage than that.  Someone on the show dropped the ball.

That is still light years better than what TWD did last week.   A female character (Yumiko) gave a well deserved punch to another female's (Carol's) face.  Carol is a fifty plus year old character  who has been putting lives at risk, and in some cases costing lives,  She only cares about herself and her losses.  She took one heck of a punch to the face.  No damage was done to Carol's face at all.  She should have been bleeding and possibly had broken facial bones.  She wasn't even knocked to the ground, and there were no signs at all of her being hit.  Not even a bruise.  Someone on that show also dropped the ball.

Permasmirk and Rojas have been elevated above everyone else on Chicago PD.  I don't understand why.

As was said above, Burgess should have been elevated and IMO stayed elevated and Kevin needs to be elevated as well.

Edited by icemiser69
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I was far from a Lindsay fan, but I guess it's true what they say, you never know what you've got till it's gone.

She was a fustercluck without a doubt, but she knew she was & didn't pretend to be anything else. She also seemed to actually care about her co-workers. 

Permasmirk on the other hand, thinks her shit doesn't stink. 

I'd actually rather episode number 65 about Erin and Bunny than listen to one more sob story from Upton's mouth, which all seems to be about getting as much sympathy as possible so no one would dare call her out for her shitty behaviour because you know ....'daddy issues'.

Atwater? Who's Atwater? Oh that big tall dude that does undercover drug buys every week.🙄

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11 hours ago, SG11 said:

Agree all around.

And there is no logical reason why Marina is not The Queen. End of story.

Really liked Voight’s punch. Not gratuitous- just a real reaction. Nice.

Oh, and while I hated to see the ex gang guy get pummeled like that, he totally asked for it multiple times. I’m surprised he and Atwater weren’t shot.

Agreed that Marina is the Queen SHE should be the lead female and I've liked her development. Also she doesnt have the my shit dont stink look on her face. Upton getting hypocritical with Rojas in the preview for Wednesday's ep had my eyes rolling 

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11 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

Your post is so true. I think Lindsey's empathy always made her character rootable in my opinion. Permasmurk is just an asshole and I cannot stand her. I don't know who is more repulsive Permasmurk or Saint Olivia from  Law &Order SVU.

I love this comment at so many levels. St Olivia still infuriates me, and Permasmirk is my new favorite word.

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2 hours ago, Josh371982 said:

Agreed that Marina is the Queen SHE should be the lead female and I've liked her development. Also she doesnt have the my shit dont stink look on her face. Upton getting hypocritical with Rojas in the preview for Wednesday's ep had my eyes rolling 

Rojas looks like an attempt to check a couple boxes (female, Hispanic ) but IMO her character has not developed at any level on this show so far. She’s not interesting, she offers nothing. At first she looked like a love interest for Atwater but that’s gone. She was actually a little bit interesting when first introduced, but she’s gone nowhere.

I agree that I actually miss Lindsay a little here in the days of Rojas and Permasmirk. I liked her inappropriate connection to Voight and her girlcop attitude. She reminds me of the girlcops I liked the most when I was working. But yeah, the badass routine is a little silly... she weighs 90 pounds soaking wet and they don’t teach you that much at the Academy where she could take down a 250 pound man, sorry. Even Burgess who I love more than the solar system, in between her physical victories has had her ass kicked 5 ways from Sunday in situations that yeah, should have turned out that way given the matchup.

Its too bad Lindsay the actress burned bridges with her stupid comments after leaving (“Chicago is soooo cold to shoot outside, wah”) as I wouldn’t mind a return there. I had all the Bunny I needed though.

Im also going to repeat my disappointment in the terrible underuse of Sgt Trudy, one of the brilliant characters on the show. Just because Burgess, Atwater and Roman aren’t in queue anymore is no reason to not introduce more interesting patrol officers and use their stories to continue giving Trudy the screen time she deserves.

Edited by SG11
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PS, I forgot... the obnoxious product placement of Under Armor gloves worn in close ups of no less than SIX Intelligence members wearing them!

And the even had different colored logos on the boy gloves from the girl gloves. Adorable. Hope they charged a lot.

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While I get that gang violence is in reality a huge issue in Chicago, I'm rather weary of the whole "Intelligence has to stop gang war from erupting" storyline. It feels like we've done it a zillion times already. 

On 3/19/2020 at 10:45 AM, icemiser69 said:

Permasmirk (Upton) can't stop being an obnoxious twit.   She must think that calling Atwater and Ruzek, "kittens" was all sorts of cute.  It wasn't.  Permasmirk is nowhere near as special as she thinks she is.

And of course, when she did it, the guys were just supposed to ignore it, or take it as a joke. If they had done it to her, you know she'd have run straight to HR.

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On 4/8/2020 at 7:48 AM, SnarkySheep said:

And of course, when she did it, the guys were just supposed to ignore it, or take it as a joke. If they had done it to her, you know she'd have run straight to HR.

Wouldn't be surprised if that's how she 'earned' her Detective badge....

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On 3/22/2020 at 8:56 AM, SG11 said:

Rojas looks like an attempt to check a couple boxes (female, Hispanic ) but IMO her character has not developed at any level on this show so far. She’s not interesting, she offers nothing. At first she looked like a love interest for Atwater but that’s gone. She was actually a little bit interesting when first introduced, but she’s gone nowhere.

I agree that I actually miss Lindsay a little here in the days of Rojas and Permasmirk. I liked her inappropriate connection to Voight and her girlcop attitude. She reminds me of the girlcops I liked the most when I was working. But yeah, the badass routine is a little silly... she weighs 90 pounds soaking wet and they don’t teach you that much at the Academy where she could take down a 250 pound man, sorry. Even Burgess who I love more than the solar system, in between her physical victories has had her ass kicked 5 ways from Sunday in situations that yeah, should have turned out that way given the matchup.

Its too bad Lindsay the actress burned bridges with her stupid comments after leaving (“Chicago is soooo cold to shoot outside, wah”) as I wouldn’t mind a return there. I had all the Bunny I needed though.

Im also going to repeat my disappointment in the terrible underuse of Sgt Trudy, one of the brilliant characters on the show. Just because Burgess, Atwater and Roman aren’t in queue anymore is no reason to not introduce more interesting patrol officers and use their stories to continue giving Trudy the screen time she deserves.

Sophia wouldn’t return even if they  asked . She left because someone couldn’t keep his anger in check and had to be investigated by NBC. 

Edited by Jaelyn96
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On 4/14/2020 at 3:07 AM, Jaelyn96 said:

Sophia wouldn’t return even if they  asked . She left because someone couldn’t keep his anger in check and had to be investigated by NBC. 

She left under nebulous circumstances that were never explicitly stated.

They should never go back. Bring on a new character or better yet utilize the ones you have.

Rojas could be a great character. Her back story of being homeless and in the system could be explored. She has street cred that the others can’t even approach. Let’s use her character as well as Trudy and Burgess. We don’t want to go backwards.

 

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On 4/14/2020 at 2:07 AM, Jaelyn96 said:

Sophia wouldn’t return even if they  asked . She left because someone couldn’t keep his anger in check and had to be investigated by NBC. 

That’s one rumor involving Voight that Bush never confirmed. The only thing she stated was that her body was getting beat up by stunts and that the Chicago weather was too harsh for her. Sorry but if she or Abbey from NCIS have accusations to make, they should make them rather than hide behind the word games.

29 minutes ago, The Ringo Kidd said:

She left under nebulous circumstances that were never explicitly stated.

They should never go back. Bring on a new character or better yet utilize the ones you have.

Rojas could be a great character. Her back story of being homeless and in the system could be explored. She has street cred that the others can’t even approach. Let’s use her character as well as Trudy and Burgess. We don’t want to go backwards.

 

I agree with this. It’s a shame Bush forced her exit in mid contract but whatever. I think Rojas could develop given the storyline she was handed a couple episodes ago. Sometimes the characters need to find their way. They really, really need to get back to utilizing the excellent characters/actors like Trudy and Burgess. They carried the show for a time.

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4 hours ago, SG11 said:

That’s one rumor involving Voight that Bush never confirmed. The only thing she stated was that her body was getting beat up by stunts and that the Chicago weather was too harsh for her. Sorry but if she or Abbey from NCIS have accusations to make, they should make them rather than hide behind the word games.

I agree with this. It’s a shame Bush forced her exit in mid contract but whatever. I think Rojas could develop given the storyline she was handed a couple episodes ago. Sometimes the characters need to find their way. They really, really need to get back to utilizing the excellent characters/actors like Trudy and Burgess. They carried the show for a time.

Wasn’t a rumor it was because of Jason Beghe. She has made multiple podcasts talking about she left and the set conditions. She kept on telling the bosses about the set conditions and telling her it would be fixed but it never did. She also found out that they kept Dick in the dark about what was going on. When he found out he flew to Chicago to see what was going on as why jason had an anger management coach following him around.  She was asked about the cast member who had anger management problems and how she felt he was still there. Even Warren from SVU vouched for SophiA when all the articles came out about Jason 

5 hours ago, The Ringo Kidd said:

She left under nebulous circumstances that were never explicitly stated.

They should never go back. Bring on a new character or better yet utilize the ones you have.

Rojas could be a great character. Her back story of being homeless and in the system could be explored. She has street cred that the others can’t even approach. Let’s use her character as well as Trudy and Burgess. We don’t want to go backwards.

 

If you listen to the podcasts she did. She listed many reasons why she left the show  and it had hardly to do with weather 

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And yet in public the only thing she says is she left because she wanted to and the Chicago weather was too hard on her. Whatever. Jason hasn’t gone anywhere, has he?

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On 3/22/2020 at 1:56 PM, SG11 said:

 

Its too bad Lindsay the actress burned bridges with her stupid comments after leaving (“Chicago is soooo cold to shoot outside, wah”) as I wouldn’t mind a return there. I had all the Bunny I needed though.

 

Seriously??  You might want to educate yourself on why she left before saying something so ridiculous and heartless.  Google is your friend.

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3 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

Seriously??  You might want to educate yourself on why she left before saying something so ridiculous and heartless.  Google is your friend.

3 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

I’ve read plenty of google on the subject. She complained about a problem she wouldn’t explain. An investigation was done on JB’s anger issues that hasn’t really proven anything. I guess he still works there. She has still not explained anything clearly beyond saying her body got beat up and the Chicago weather was too harsh. I believe the last reason she gave for leaving was “because I wanted to.”  Was there some horrifying clear reason someplace that she provided that apparently chased only her out the door?

I thought she was a fine actor in a hard role. It’s great she had so many options to be able to walk out of her contract. Don’t care for her at all off set, including stuff she talks about that have nothing to do with the show. YRMV.

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On 4/24/2020 at 12:28 AM, SG11 said:

I’ve read plenty of google on the subject. She complained about a problem she wouldn’t explain. An investigation was done on JB’s anger issues that hasn’t really proven anything. I guess he still works there. She has still not explained anything clearly beyond saying her body got beat up and the Chicago weather was too harsh. I believe the last reason she gave for leaving was “because I wanted to.”  Was there some horrifying clear reason someplace that she provided that apparently chased only her out the door?

I thought she was a fine actor in a hard role. It’s great she had so many options to be able to walk out of her contract. Don’t care for her at all off set, including stuff she talks about that have nothing to do with the show. YRMV.

I reread my comment and in hindsight, it came across harsher than intended, so apologies for that. 

I'm too lazy to look up the articles that came out significantly later than her original departure, but it seemed obvious, at least to me, that there were some very definite issues on that set that weren''t addressed, making the situation unbearable for her.  I'm going on nothing more than instinct and common sense that it had to be bad for her to walk away from such a lucrative deal, especially since she hasn't done anything newsworthy since then, except for a single episode on This Is Us.  Thinking Mr. Beghe has some serious issues, but then again, he is the show!  They were never going to do anything to him unless some kind of criminal chargs could be brought, which is really hard to prove.  As far as an actor, I love Jason Beghe, but that doesn't mean he's not capable of being a total slime bag in real life.  At the same time, he was going through an ugly divorce, so I don't think it's that much of a reach to think he was totally inappropriate or out of line with her.  She may be unlikable IRL life as I don't really follow her, but I hate to trivialize what I believe was a serious injustice towards her.  We can agree to disagree😐

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9 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

I reread my comment and in hindsight, it came across harsher than intended, so apologies for that. 

I'm too lazy to look up the articles that came out significantly later than her original departure, but it seemed obvious, at least to me, that there were some very definite issues on that set that weren''t addressed, making the situation unbearable for her.  I'm going on nothing more than instinct and common sense that it had to be bad for her to walk away from such a lucrative deal, especially since she hasn't done anything newsworthy since then, except for a single episode on This Is Us.  Thinking Mr. Beghe has some serious issues, but then again, he is the show!  They were never going to do anything to him unless some kind of criminal chargs could be brought, which is really hard to prove.  As far as an actor, I love Jason Beghe, but that doesn't mean he's not capable of being a total slime bag in real life.  At the same time, he was going through an ugly divorce, so I don't think it's that much of a reach to think he was totally inappropriate or out of line with her.  She may be unlikable IRL life as I don't really follow her, but I hate to trivialize what I believe was a serious injustice towards her.  We can agree to disagree😐

Fair enough, I didn’t want to get into an angry exchange. That wasn’t my intent. Apologies as well.

I just found her and Paulie from NCIS to be so oddly cagey in their comments. I agree, something had to be going on to leave great gigs like that but, geez, tell us. I’m sure I’m assuming that it’s easier than it sounds. It’s just the rumor stuff bugs me these days.

I liked her as an actor. I wanted to work in her squad, lol. I miss the days when she and Burgess and Trudy were stars every week.

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On 4/17/2020 at 4:59 PM, SG11 said:

And yet in public the only thing she says is she left because she wanted to and the Chicago weather was too hard on her. Whatever. Jason hasn’t gone anywhere, has he?

She has done multiple podcasts and interviews after her initial interview referring to all the hostile environment on set. and she was not happy when she saw the articles about her leaving because of weather and was one of the news articles had to retract their story after being called out 

1 minute ago, Jaelyn96 said:

She has done multiple podcasts and interviews after her initial interview referring to all the hostile environment on set. and she was not happy when she saw the articles about her leaving because of weather and was one of the news articles had to retract their story after being called out 

 

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1 hour ago, SG11 said:

Fair enough, I didn’t want to get into an angry exchange. That wasn’t my intent. Apologies as well.

I just found her and Paulie from NCIS to be so oddly cagey in their comments. I agree, something had to be going on to leave great gigs like that but, geez, tell us. I’m sure I’m assuming that it’s easier than it sounds. It’s just the rumor stuff bugs me these days.

I liked her as an actor. I wanted to work in her squad, lol. I miss the days when she and Burgess and Trudy were stars every week.

I don't follow NCIS but I remember reading about that, however don't know enough to comment.

SB was cagey, but later she said something like she was assaulted in a room full of grown men and no one did anything.  I'm recounting this from memory, so that's not exact but you get the jist.  It could have been as innocuous as grabbing her butt, but I can't imagine she would walk away from such a sweet gig over that, so although it's just speculation on my part, I really feel it had to be bad for her to leave.

I loved her as Erin and she is sorely missed.  Both her and JB must be really good actors because their scenes were great and they seemed to have to appropriate father/daughter type vibe.  Agree, her scnes with Burgess and Platt were awesome!

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