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S11.E11: Being Gay and Religious

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51 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

What do lesbians bring on their second date? A U-Haul.

Mooriah's reveal that Audj was her first date, ever, reminded me of that joke and I LOL'd. But it's true that lesbians are noted for being somewhat less promiscuous than other groups of people and forming long-time monogamous relationships.

What a bummer when she said if she stayed in her church most likely she would've unhappily married some guy just to go along/get along. I know four women whose LDS husbands left them and the kids because they finally tired of the charade of going along to get along. That is just damn sad all the way around. 

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5 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Why is Mariah having two engagement parties?

Money/gift grab.

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53 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Money/gift grab.

Sounds like it was Meri's idea. I think she wants to get some free advertising for the B&B since I believe one of the venues suggested was Lizzie's. 

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23 hours ago, DakotaJustice said:

I think like many child actors, Truely is encouraged and compelled to overdo it for the cameras. 

Absolutely, and remember - she knows no other life than to perform for the camera crew.  She was literally born into this circus - and she's also the last child of (at the time) the least-favored wife.  For that reason alone, I have a soft spot for Truely.

 

19 hours ago, NotinKansasanymore said:

So am I correct that when everyone was making pizzas they were in Robyn’s kitchen and when Kody was teaching the kids to ride bikes it was also outside Robyn’s house?

I can totally see Kody saying, "well yeah, I can babysit the kids if I have to, but they're all gonna have to find a way to come to Robyn's house."  Hence, the need for Mykelti and Janelle's mom.  He's such a jerk.

 

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I totally agree with you here.  While I didn't approve of Kody's bullying of her, I do think she should be encouraged to do things that scare her a little.  Of course, Kody was NOT providing the emotional support she needed to trust that he would catch her if she fell, or that he would not push her into falling.

And this is so freaking sad...this child cannot count on her dad to catch her if she falls.  But Kody doesn't care - he just needed to play "daddy" for a few hours, and then he could go back to only seeing Truely every other Thursday for a half-hour.

I hope Christine watched this and chewed Kody a new one....for whatever good it would do, he'd just go mope over at Robyn's and whine that no one understands how hard it is to be him.

 

7 hours ago, LydiaE said:

Kody is an asshat and poor excuse for a father but Truely has obviously learned to mirror her mother and sisters’ personalities and mannerisms. It’s a little cringy and I think it disgusts Kody in a way.

This is a really good observation.  I can see how he would avoid Christine's girls at all costs, especially Mykelti and Truely, who seem to have inherited the lion's share of their mother's histrionic personality.

I still wish Paedon would return from basic training or wherever he is and challenge Kody to a wrestling match, and then pound him into finely ground dust for the mistreatment and neglect of his mother and his five sisters.

Edited by laurakaye
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8 hours ago, suomi said:

What a bummer when she said if she stayed in her church most likely she would've unhappily married some guy just to go along/get along. I know four women whose LDS husbands left them and the kids because they finally tired of the charade of going along to get along. That is just damn sad all the way around. 

I didn't believe her when she said that.  No way was Princess Mariah ever going to deny herself what she really wanted out of life.  This is 2020, not 1920 or even 1980.  I don't know too many people anymore, especially young ones, that would see the widespread social acceptance of gayness going on in mainstream society and think they have to accept remaining closeted, married to the opposite sex and unhappy, no matter how strong their religious faith was.  Eventually, maybe after a few years of being single and never finding someone to settle down with, she would have quietly moved away from home and lived life on her terms even if it meant leaving the church.

I once worked with a Mormon man from my generation (he would be about 63 years old right now).  He had grown up in the Mormon church in Utah, got married young and had kids.  12 or so years later he woke up, miserable and no longer able to live a lie, plus social acceptance of gayness was increasing to the point that he eventually felt empowered to do something about it.  He divorced his wife and moved to the Northeast, where I met him when we both worked at an accounting firm.  He had gotten involved with a man and was living with him.  I really felt for him because he had to leave his entire life and family behind in order to live life on his own terms and find some personal happiness - something he really did not want to have to do but was unavoidable.  He told me he still considered himself religious but when I first met him he did not belong to any church.  Eventually as a result of my encouragement and through some other friends he discovered the Episcopal church and began going there.  I lost touch with him years ago but i know he still lives in my area.  I remember the horrible stories he told me about how his kids and his family hated him and how much it tore him apart that they would not accept him.  I truly hope he was able to resume a relationship with them at some point.  It's just horrible what these poor people have had to go through.  But he was from MY generation and in general a "people pleasing type".  Mariah on the other hand benefits from being young in a time when she wouldn't have to go through that kind of personal torture, and given her dominant personality I seriously doubt she would have ever let that happen.

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12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

A lot of gay religious Christians from other more socially conservative churches are attracted to the Episcopal church for good reasons.  When I watched this episode I wished that Mariah could learn more about this

I really don't think Snowflake has any interest in religion at this point other than the Church of Wokeness.  She never mentions religion in her pontificating posts at all.  Either she gave it up because of the stance of the Mormon church or because she was at the age where young people start to question the indoctrination of organized religions.

If she wanted to join some sort of faith-based congregation, it wouldn't be hard to do, especially in Chicago.  It's way easier to have a prolonged brunch and send out deep philosophical ramblings on SM on a Sunday morning than to attend a church service.

Calling her "religious" is ridiculous.

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26 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

I really don't think Snowflake has any interest in religion at this point other than the Church of Wokeness.  She never mentions religion in her pontificating posts at all.  Either she gave it up because of the stance of the Mormon church or because she was at the age where young people start to question the indoctrination of organized religions.

If she wanted to join some sort of faith-based congregation, it wouldn't be hard to do, especially in Chicago.  It's way easier to have a prolonged brunch and send out deep philosophical ramblings on SM on a Sunday morning than to attend a church service.

Calling her "religious" is ridiculous.

I don't remember when, maybe last season, but Mariah did state on camera that she now considered herself as spiritual, but no longer religious.

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What a horrible idea that Kody may have an aversion to certain kids because they remind him of their moms. I guess that’s what can happen if you don’t love, admire, or respect the person you’re procreating with. Most of us love to see our beloved’s traits reflected in our kids. 

I tend to think Kody just prefers people who think he’s wonderful. 

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33 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

I don't remember when, maybe last season, but Mariah did state on camera that she now considered herself as spiritual, but no longer religious.

Exactly why the episode title of "Being Gay and Religious" is stupid.

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3 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Exactly why the episode title of "Being Gay and Religious" is stupid.

Well, she is religiously scrupulous about her Wokeness.

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On 3/16/2020 at 12:12 PM, Granny58 said:

That's what I mean though.  She needs to do some soul searching, literally, and decide what she really believes.  THEN find the fit for her, not the other way around.  Also, no one is a sinner because of their sexuality in any church I've attended, it is a matter of what they DO, not how they feel.  

I feel similarly, and have had the same experience.  I also think people need to understand that their faith is going to require them to do things outside of their comfort zone, otherwise it wouldn’t be a “faith” lol.

 I think people should pay really close attention to which church they join, but then be prepared for your church to inform your conscience, not always the other way around.  

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1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

Exactly why the episode title of "Being Gay and Religious" is stupid.

she's a hypocrite just like her father.

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1 hour ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I tend to think Kody just prefers people who think he’s wonderful. 

And much to my absolute delight, that circle is getting smaller with each passing year.

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Finally watched this mess.  I'm astounded that Truely can't ride a bike at age 9.  With so many older siblings, I'd would have thought that she would want to emulate them.  In a family that large, bike riding should be something that's almost automatic was soon as they're mobile.  I feel like she must have been ignored a lot by her brothers and siblings (not to mention her numerous parents).

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11 hours ago, suomi said:

I know four women whose LDS husbands left them and the kids because they finally tired of the charade of going along to get along. That is just damn sad all the way around. 

About four years ago, Elizabeth Smart's dad said he was tired of living a lie and left her mom for a man.

I am an Episcopalian New Yorker. We've embraced the Lesbian, Gay, Bi-Sexual and Transgender (LGBT) community, wholeheartedly.  But, as quiet as it's kept, a lot of the older parishioners left the church because of that.  

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6 hours ago, DakotaJustice said:

Sounds like it was Meri's idea. I think she wants to get some free advertising for the B&B since I believe one of the venues suggested was Lizzie's. 

And Mariah wasn’t on board with the idea. She only caved when Meri kept nagging her. I wish Mariah would have told her “NO, it’s my engagement and I don’t want it at the old, stodgy B&B!” 

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32 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

And Mariah wasn’t on board with the idea. She only caved when Meri kept nagging her. I wish Mariah would have told her “NO, it’s my engagement and I don’t want it at the old, stodgy B&B!” 

That would have brought Meri's Minions out in full force.  It's amazing to me the support for Meri and the outright hatred of Mariah on FB for the way Mariah "treats" her mom. 

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The wedding is supposedly not happening for another year or two, I thought? It might just be hard to think about engagement parties and stuff at this point. Mariah didn’t seem too excited about her sisters wanting to throw a party, either, and they both seem kind of put off by all the traditional hubbub of weddings. I can relate to that idea because I did NOT want the stress of a big wedding. We basically had a potluck at my parents’ house. Mariah might be worrying about the spectacle this could turn into in TLC has a hand in anything. 

Edited by Tabbygirl521
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2 hours ago, LibertarianSlut said:

but then be prepared for your church to inform your conscience,

YES YES YES!!!

 

So I'm finally watching the episode.  I don't have a problem with the way Kody tried to get Truly to ride the bike.  Sorry.  He understood she had fear but was trying to make her power through it...even then only to a point and finally let her quit.  I give him a pass on this one.  

 

As for the 2 engagement parties, well, I didn't even have one as I didn't even know that was a thing, but I don't think 2 is weird either.  Not sure there is even a rule about this.  

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Somebody stuck Sobbyn's eyebrows on crooked.  Oh wait, that's just scrunch face.  

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11 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

The wedding is supposedly not happening for another year or two, I thought?

Well, a lot of this was taped quite some time ago and Princess Snowflake hasn't said word one about anything on her Diarrhea of the Mouth constant social media postings so who knows when (or if) it will ever happen. I'd bet the farm that if SW is cancelled, there will be no wedding.  They are dangling this whole premise to get TLC to keep renewing.

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1 hour ago, texasbluebonnets said:

she's a hypocrite just like her father.

and they both worship themselves.

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1 hour ago, TurtlePower said:

And Mariah wasn’t on board with the idea. She only caved when Meri kept nagging her. I wish Mariah would have told her “NO, it’s my engagement and I don’t want it at the old, stodgy B&B!” 

this is such a dysfunctional so-called 'family' that I've ever seen.  

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Traditionally the bride’s parent(s) host an engagement party. Couples often host their own. Siblings hosting, when parents are able, would be odd, I suppose. “Traditional” is not really high on my list, but separate parties hosted by different people in the same family is just silly. It’s supposed to be both families coming together. I assume there was no mention of Audrey’s family. 
 

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3 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

I assume there was no mention of Audrey’s family. 

Nope. 

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Maybe they think Sludge can do better, and they don't like Snowflake.

If that's the case, I already like Sludge's family.  👿

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if Audrey wasn't a good player on the football team, why was she allowed to be on the football team?  

I hate the use of the word "unsafe" when they mean "anxious" or "nervous" or "up in the air."  Way to ratchet up the drama!  But as for not having a house, what is the problem with staying with a sister wife for a bit?????   FRIENDS DO THAT FOR EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME!

Overall not a horrible episode, better than I was expecting.  The real downer, of course, was Sobbyn.  

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Mariah hates her mother.

I do feel badly for Meri in that I think she had a plan for her life and nothing went the way she planned. She only got to have 1 child, and I think to compensate she spoiled Mariah to her detriment. The spoiling ended up biting her in the butt because Mariah was so used to only caring about herself that when the time came for her to have empathy for her mother she couldn't muster any up. Meri had a breakdown and was struggling and had no one to turn to. Now granted, she didn't have Kody and her sister wives because of her own choices but even her own daughter had no time for her.

Meri so desperately wants to throw her daughter a party, which is a very normal thing. Even if the sisters throw it usually the mom helps but all her sisters have different mom's so it's not as simple. Why can't Mariah throw her mom a bone and let her enjoy something, she only gets to do this once. Maybe she'll be nicer for her second wedding.

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23 minutes ago, MrsPatrickBateman said:

Mariah hates her mother.

I do feel badly for Meri in that I think she had a plan for her life and nothing went the way she planned. She only got to have 1 child, and I think to compensate she spoiled Mariah to her detriment. The spoiling ended up biting her in the butt because Mariah was so used to only caring about herself that when the time came for her to have empathy for her mother she couldn't muster any up. Meri had a breakdown and was struggling and had no one to turn to. Now granted, she didn't have Kody and her sister wives because of her own choices but even her own daughter had no time for her.

Meri so desperately wants to throw her daughter a party, which is a very normal thing. Even if the sisters throw it usually the mom helps but all her sisters have different mom's so it's not as simple. Why can't Mariah throw her mom a bone and let her enjoy something, she only gets to do this once. Maybe she'll be nicer for her second wedding.

agree 100%.

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21 minutes ago, MrsPatrickBateman said:

Mariah hates her mother.

I do feel badly for Meri in that I think she had a plan for her life and nothing went the way she planned. She only got to have 1 child, and I think to compensate she spoiled Mariah to her detriment. The spoiling ended up biting her in the butt because Mariah was so used to only caring about herself that when the time came for her to have empathy for her mother she couldn't muster any up. Meri had a breakdown and was struggling and had no one to turn to. Now granted, she didn't have Kody and her sister wives because of her own choices but even her own daughter had no time for her.

Meri so desperately wants to throw her daughter a party, which is a very normal thing. Even if the sisters throw it usually the mom helps but all her sisters have different mom's so it's not as simple. Why can't Mariah throw her mom a bone and let her enjoy something, she only gets to do this once. Maybe she'll be nicer for her second wedding.

I'm not so sure that it's hatred Mariah feels as much as contempt.  We don't know what went on behind the scenes or know if they ever sat down with a real therapist to sort out their actions and reactions.  Meri is obviously uncomfortable around Mariah and appears to be walking on eggshells with her, so she may still feel that her interactions with her only child are "weird".

As I see it, Mariah's disdain for her mother are behaviors she learned at her mother's knee.  Meri had the greatest single influence on Mariah during her formative years. She was taught that she was special and above reproach and when Meri was vulnerable, Mariah reacted to her in the same manner that Meri treated Janelle and Christine for far lesser infractions.

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2 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

And Mariah wasn’t on board with the idea. She only caved when Meri kept nagging her. I wish Mariah would have told her “NO, it’s my engagement and I don’t want it at the old, stodgy B&B!” 

Where in that town will every family member be able to stay????

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5 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

What a horrible idea that Kody may have an aversion to certain kids because they remind him of their moms. I guess that’s what can happen if you don’t love, admire, or respect the person you’re procreating with.

I don't THINK this is true, but of course we don't really know.  I think in a polygamous marriage (or even in a marriage like the Duggars????) when a man has SO many kids, he's going to have favorites.  Mine definitely did, which was part of our issues.   I've never heard this come up here on this board before, although many of us (myself included) will comment on how Kody's youngest two with Robyn seem to be his favorites and he doesn't seem to care about his sons or Truely.   Kody doesn't favor Robyn's older children... despite carrying the one daughter upstairs for the cameras, I highly doubt Kody notices them any more than he does any of his other kids.  Well maybe a LITTLE more because I think he is at Robyn's house 97% of the time so naturally he would interact with them more.  

Here is my two cents (and worth about that much.)  A wife can force the issue and put her kids front and center by demanding the husband notice her kids more than his other wives' kids - for whatever reason.  With Robyn, I think this happened because she was so "helpless" in caring for her own children without a village of help.  They needed spoon fed LONG past the age where most kids are spoon fed, they had elaborate night time rituals before they could go to bed - which had to be in Robyn's bed... the kids were encouraged to be needy and dependent on adults in a plural family where kids are SUPPOSED to be encouraged to be self-sufficient and responsible for themselves and younger siblings/anyone who needed help.  So naturally since Kody HAD to be very involved - he developed a closer relationship with these two than he did for the other children whose mothers did not constantly push onto Kody to make him more responsible for their day to day care.  If Robyn had not done this, I doubt Kody would have noticed Robyn's kids any more than he notices his other children.  He likes making kids, but he doesn't seem to like his kids... if that makes sense.  I don't think it has to do with aversions towards certain wives.  

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Interesting thoughts, @Kyanight. I always appreciate your input since you have such a unique perspective compared to the rest of us.

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3 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Interesting thoughts, @Kyanight. I always appreciate your input since you have such a unique perspective compared to the rest of us.

Thank you!    I am no expert on anything, ESPECIALLY the Browns.  I only voice my own opinion and comment from my own experiences since every family - whether polygamous or monogamous - is unique.  I find this to be very true about the Browns.  They've changed so much since they started this reality show.  They are an enigma. 

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22 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

He likes making kids, but he doesn't seem to like his kids... if that makes sense.  I don't think it has to do with aversions towards certain wives.  

Kyanight - You are so right on this!!! He doesn't seem to "like" any of them.  If you noticed at the campfire or the pizza making dinner the younger girls were hanging with the older girls but Kody wasn't really hanging with Dayton and Gabe.

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Kody doesn’t seem to like his boys, at all.  Only when they wrestle with him, and that’s a maybe.

And he’s so grumpy, imagine living with him. No thanks. 

@Kyanight I saw you on another favorite board here....MAFS? 90 Day? I won’t tell that we watch this show if you won’t 😜

@Granny58, Audrey was allowed on the football team because...well, these days everyone gets a trophy.  In my high school in the late 80s, if you weren’t a good player, you wouldn’t be on the team at all.  Or if you somehow made it onto the team, you’d be shunned and derided. The 80s teenagers were mean lol. 

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22 hours ago, Teafortwo said:

Yeah, in line with your comment -- whatever else can be said about Mykelti, she seems to me actually to be a stable, responsible adult. She works hard at her sales - I've seen them online and it does seem a lot of work to deal with - inventory, invoicing, shipping, keeping track of orders and so forth. I loathe MLMs but if this were a legitimate business I'd actually admire her work ethic. She comes across flighty and demanding on the show at times (ref: everything about the taco/pinata wedding) but I think she's calmed down a lot. 

Does she sell Lularue (sp?) also?

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21 hours ago, waterytart said:

Does she sell Lularue (sp?) also?

Yes, she does. I was watching her recently (helps take my mind off the world health crisis) and she mentioned both she and her mom are in Meri's downline, and that she (Mykelti) works on average 12 hours a day but Christine sells more than she does. 

Edited by Teafortwo · Reason: spellingk
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28 minutes ago, Meowwww said:

@Kyanight I saw you on another favorite board here....MAFS? 90 Day? I won’t tell that we watch this show if you won’t

Hey Meowwww!  This is my home board.  I've been posting here for years... I just now discovered the guilty joys of Before the 90 Days because of the snarky pillow talk show.  Now I am hooked!

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16 minutes ago, Teafortwo said:

Yes, she does. I was watching her recently (helps take my mind of the world health crisis) and she mentioned both she and her mom are in Meri's downline, and that she (Mykelti) works on average 12 hours a day but Christine sells more than she does. 

Wow!! I hope she's making a decent amount of money. I've read articles that indicated that the company was basically collapsing and people were having lots of trouble with the quality of the clothes so I'm honestly surprised that it's still a sustainable business. 

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On 3/16/2020 at 5:44 PM, Adeejay said:

The guilt of being able to afford a $900,000 home and what she had to do in order to do so, probably weighs on her conscience.  After all, when we first met her, she was living in a trailer without heat.  "You've come a long way, baby!"

I used to like Robyn, and clearly I have missed some obvious signs of a hidden agenda.  If you watch the earlier episodes (whilst social distancing, Comcast Oon Demand) it is shocking how she has changed in the way she talks about Kody and her entitlement. She is just downright angry/seething in her biggie house.

Was Robyn always like this and hid it well? (and I don't blame Kody for all of her wack)

Meri had a small redemption for me, cause Meri has is most def been my least fav. Her comment about God and housing thumbs up. I still don't understand why Meri needs to have a huge sprawling house? Can she only live in a home that is 4 + bedrooms and a wetbar?

Is Meri a super princess that would not ever consider anyone else's plights but her own?

The money that is thrown down on renting, moving, buying and upgrading is amazing. Amazing because no one EVER seems satisfied except maybe Janelle. Janelle gets the life gig it seems.

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3 minutes ago, WaterSpirit said:

used to like Robyn, and clearly I have missed some obvious signs of a hidden agenda.  If you watch the earlier episodes (whilst social distancing, Comcast Oon Demand) it is shocking how she has changed in the way she talks about Kody and her entitlement. She is just downright angry/seething in her biggie house.

Was Robyn always like this and hid it well? (and I don't blame Kody for all of her wack)

Yes.  She was a demanding and entitled child and she's never changed.

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4 hours ago, Granny58 said:

YES YES YES!!!

 

So I'm finally watching the episode.  I don't have a problem with the way Kody tried to get Truly to ride the bike.  Sorry.  He understood she had fear but was trying to make her power through it...even then only to a point and finally let her quit.  I give him a pass on this one.  

 

As for the 2 engagement parties, well, I didn't even have one as I didn't even know that was a thing, but I don't think 2 is weird either.  Not sure there is even a rule about this.  

yes, I am in the minority as well but the bike teaching was pretty much status for how my friends and I  learned how to ride, skate, sled, swim. I was pretty shy kiddo , and Dad gave me some extra pushes, but I am glad for it. Otherwise I would still be on the sidelines watching the other kids. 

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3 hours ago, Sandy W said:

I'm not so sure that it's hatred Mariah feels as much as contempt.  We don't know what went on behind the scenes or know if they ever sat down with a real therapist to sort out their actions and reactions.  Meri is obviously uncomfortable around Mariah and appears to be walking on eggshells with her, so she may still feel that her interactions with her only child are "weird".

As I see it, Mariah's disdain for her mother are behaviors she learned at her mother's knee.  Meri had the greatest single influence on Mariah during her formative years. She was taught that she was special and above reproach and when Meri was vulnerable, Mariah reacted to her in the same manner that Meri treated Janelle and Christine for far lesser infractions.

Mariah had said she told her mother time and time again that she was being catfished. I can imagine that it was hard for her to see what essentially was her mother having an affair behind Kody's back. If her catfisher had been a man, Meri would have been down for anything IMO. I had the misfortune of seeing the banana pic Meri thought she was sending to her man. Yikes X 10. I imagine the calls got steamy. 

I think there is mountains of resentment still there, and Meri just kept having to demonstrate/justify her behavior by bringing other woman (women?) that were catfished as well. (sorry I cannot remember the exact details of the lunch from hell)

bottom line, Meri waded in the infidelity pool, and it bit her in the ass. Mariah had to watch, saw the betrayal, and lost even more respect for her mother because Meri cannot own her motives. Another reason why she and Kody are not couple of the year...he does not call it what it was either. at least not with the cameras rolling.

 

and I am not a huge Mariah fan...I just can imagine the huge amount of damage those lies and continued mis representation of motives have caused. 

How many of the Brown's are involved in that horrible clothing line? yikes!!

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57 minutes ago, WaterSpirit said:

Yes, I am in the minority as well but the bike teaching was pretty much status for how my friends and I  learned how to ride, skate, sled, swim. I was pretty shy kiddo , and Dad gave me some extra pushes, but I am glad for it. Otherwise I would still be on the sidelines watching the other kids. 

I had to literally force my oldest son to get his driver's license.  He had been driving with me for WELL over a year but he just wouldn't do it.  I got him up early out of bed, drove him over to the DMV and made him do it.  He's always been glad that I did.  Some kids you just have to light a fire under them.

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25 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

I had to literally force my oldest son to get his driver's license.  He had been driving with me for WELL over a year but he just wouldn't do it.  I got him up early out of bed, drove him over to the DMV and made him do it.  He's always been glad that I did.  Some kids you just have to light a fire under them.

My oldest stepson is 29 now.  He got his drivers license but refused to drive until he was about 26. 
I got my license at 16 and my car was FREEDOM to me.  I tease older SS about this to this day.  💜

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7 hours ago, camom said:

Finally watched this mess.  I'm astounded that Truely can't ride a bike at age 9.  With so many older siblings, I'd would have thought that she would want to emulate them.  In a family that large, bike riding should be something that's almost automatic was soon as they're mobile.  I feel like she must have been ignored a lot by her brothers and siblings (not to mention her numerous parents).

That's exactly how it was for me.  My older brother had a bike that was way too big for me, but he could ride it so I was determined that I would would too.  I was 5, used the front steps to climb on the behemoth and just WENT.

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11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I didn't believe her when she said that.  No way was Princess Mariah ever going to deny herself what she really wanted out of life.  This is 2020, not 1920 or even 1980.  I don't know too many people anymore, especially young ones, that would see the widespread social acceptance of gayness going on in mainstream society and think they have to accept remaining closeted, married to the opposite sex and unhappy, no matter how strong their religious faith was.  Eventually, maybe after a few years of being single and never finding someone to settle down with, she would have quietly moved away from home and lived life on her terms even if it meant leaving the church.

I once worked with a Mormon man from my generation (he would be about 63 years old right now).  He had grown up in the Mormon church in Utah, got married young and had kids.  12 or so years later he woke up, miserable and no longer able to live a lie, plus social acceptance of gayness was increasing to the point that he eventually felt empowered to do something about it.  He divorced his wife and moved to the Northeast, where I met him when we both worked at an accounting firm.  He had gotten involved with a man and was living with him.  I really felt for him because he had to leave his entire life and family behind in order to live life on his own terms and find some personal happiness - something he really did not want to have to do but was unavoidable.  He told me he still considered himself religious but when I first met him he did not belong to any church.  Eventually as a result of my encouragement and through some other friends he discovered the Episcopal church and began going there.  I lost touch with him years ago but i know he still lives in my area.  I remember the horrible stories he told me about how his kids and his family hated him and how much it tore him apart that they would not accept him.  I truly hope he was able to resume a relationship with them at some point.  It's just horrible what these poor people have had to go through.  But he was from MY generation and in general a "people pleasing type".  Mariah on the other hand benefits from being young in a time when she wouldn't have to go through that kind of personal torture, and given her dominant personality I seriously doubt she would have ever let that happen.

I'm not so sure Mariah is gay!  She's never had a date with anybody.  I have always thought Audrey was just available and another chance for Mariah to say Look At Me!

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2 hours ago, WaterSpirit said:

Is Meri a super princess that would not ever consider anyone else's plights but her own?

The money that is thrown down on renting, moving, buying and upgrading is amazing. Amazing because no one EVER seems satisfied except maybe Janelle. Janelle gets the life gig it seems.

1. Yes. 
2. No kidding. That pic Christine posted in her kitchen? That’s an $8k refrigerator behind her.  

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