S05.E05: Dedicado a Max

[MaryPatShelby]

On 3/17/2020 at 9:41 AM, Ohwell said:

I find it hard to believe that Howard doesn't suspect it was Jimmy who tossed those bowling balls.   I hope he does suspect him and is setting him up for a nice.....ummm.......surprise.  Jimmy deserves it.  

I watched the last two episodes back to back, and I SWEAR that in the previews for this episode, there was a clip of Howard talking to Jimmy (who was wearing his University of American Samoa sweatshirt, working in the kitchen) asking Jimmy "do you have any idea who could have done that?" or similar, which I thought was referring to the damaged car.  But in this ep, there was that phone call but it was nothing like I remembered from the previews.  I deleted the two shows from my DVR so can't check.....am I nuts?

Edited March 21, 2020 by MaryPatShelby

[Milburn Stone]

19 hours ago, qtpye said:

If Kim is under the delusion that she is “is on the side of good” than she is truly delusional.

I think Kim is more complicated than that. A part of her does want to think she is on the side of good, and as @Dev F says in so many words, that she is not on the side of bad.

And a part of her gets off on the scam.

These parts are not entirely compatible, yet co-exist.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Milburn Stone

[Clanstarling]

23 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I think Kim is more complicated than that. A part of her does want to think she is on the side of good, and as @Dev F says in so many words, that she is not on the side of bad.

And a part of her gets off on the scam.

These parts are not entirely compatible, yet co-exist.

We all contain multitudes. The best series are good at exploring that part of human nature.

[PeterPirate]

In the famous Ken Burns documentary about the Civil War, there is this quote about Robert E. Lee:  

Quote

I think that Lee should have been hanged. It was all the worse that he was a good man and a fine character and acted conscientiously. It’s always the good men who do the most harm in the world.

 

[shapeshifter]

It's interesting that we are weighing just how bad Kim is by comparing her behavior in this episode mostly to her own actions in the past, rather than to Gus or Lalo's actions.

[PhilMarlowe2]

On 3/17/2020 at 7:33 AM, scenario said:

Everyone's opinion is valid, up to a point. The show is in its fifth year. It has always stretched things out. I understand some people lose patience with this sort of thing but they shouldn't be surprised that the show continues to do what it always has done.

The show has always been a slow burner - which is part of what I loved about it - but it also gave us an ongoing flow of new information and continually built its stories over time. In particular, the Jimmy/Chuck relationship helped keep things moving forward at a steady rate. For many of us, the show has now  hit a point where it feels like it's simply treading water. We're getting the same information over and over, the stories really aren't going anywhere. In my (valid) opinion, the show isn't doing what it's always done in terms of storytelling. It's hit a standstill. If we're only getting 8 episodes this season, then we're 2/3 of the way through, and honestly it feels like we're pretty much in the same place we were in episode 1.

[ShadowFacts]

35 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

It's interesting that we are weighing just how bad Kim is by comparing her behavior in this episode mostly to her own actions in the past, rather than to Gus or Lalo's actions.

It is true.  They are apples and oranges.  Maybe we can't be too surprised by much that Gus or Lalo do, short of becoming Buddhist, but Kim is more of a cipher. 

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

It is true.  They are apples and oranges.  Maybe we can't be too surprised by much that Gus or Lalo do, short of becoming Buddhist, but Kim is more of a cipher. 

That's it for me.  They're longtime criminals so nothing they do should come as a surprise--short of becoming Buddhist monks (I still wouldn't trust them, lol).  Kim, on the other hand, is a different story. 

[tennisgurl]

Watching Kim yell at Schweikart right in the middle of the office was like watching a train derail, I was practically watching through my fingers. I hope that we can get some more into her head space soon, because she is seriously just going off the rails at truly rapid speed. It seems like she is just an escalation of what we have seen from her before, that long for the thrill of the hustle, and a desire to stick up for the little guy (even if the little guy is kind of a prick) and stick it to The Man (even if she kind of is The Man these days) but this torpedoing of her career is really hard to watch, especially considering how much she has worked for it. Kim has always liked taking a little walk on the wild side (usually involving Jimmy) but it was just a walk. This is a basically a sprint towards the wild side, and she is hardly even being subtle about it anymore. Of course someone would notice that something is weird with her, these people are lawyers! Its their job to notice details! She especially seems to have grown a pretty strong dislike of Kevin, and seems more interested in taking him down a peg verses actually helping anyone keep their home, and I am not sure where that comes from. Maybe she sees him as a personification of the never ending string of rich guys she knows, all smug in the knowledge of their own awesomeness, because as far as smug rich guys go, he isnt that bad, all things considered. 

Of course, thats a big theme of the whole franchise, that people will start out small (just running a tiny harmless con with my boyfriend) or with good intentions (I want to use the law to stand up for people who cant help themselves) and then they get hooked on it and try for bigger scores, make more compromises, and eventually those tiny acts and good intentions have turned you into a person you no longer recognize, and become a person who lies easier than breathing or looks disturbingly interested in working with men who talk about bags and unmarked vans. There is probably a reason that both shows had their main characters take on an alias at first (Saul, Hesinburg) to try and hide behind a persona, and then eventually lost the original name all together and became the persona/name for real. Its also probably one of the reasons that we saw the monument to Max, which was the start of Frings true start of darkness, and a path towards revenge that would eventually lead to countless lives lost and destroyed, including both his own and the people who started all of this. 

Mike in Mexico was surprisingly fun, it was nice to see him bonding with the lady in the house he was staying at (especially when she gave him a part he needed) but then of course Fring shows up to be all creepy, even if he was seriously rocking that suite. Its interesting to see the many sides of Gus, and I do enjoy how unapologetic he is. The good things he does for the community (on both sides of the border) dont make up for the evil he does, but he is pretty much alright with that. He is what he is. 

[nutella fitzgerald]

Re: blue toes

I basically imagine Kim’s childhood to be the children of the character she portrayed in The Act (Dee Dee Blanchard’s sister or cousin, I think?).

[Dobian]

On 3/16/2020 at 7:16 PM, Ohwell said:

I really, really don't care about that grizzly old fuck Acker, and why Kim is so hellbent on helping him.  I hate that they've stretched this out and I want it to end.  Kim is just as much of a scumbag as Jimmy and I hope she winds up serving some time in jail.

I don't mind drawing things out if the plot and motivations make sense.  But I can't figure out either why Kim would jeopardize her career to help this guy.  He was nothing but a jerk to her when she tried to help him out.  And why does she want to go after Kevin?  Sure he's an arrogant blowhard, but he has also been nothing but good to Kim and gave her the career opportunity of a lifetime.  She's really that pissed off that he's stubborn about giving in to the old coot and building his call center on the alternate site?  Talk about career suicide.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Dobian

[qtpye]

20 minutes ago, Dobian said:

I don't mind drawing things out if the plot and motivations make sense.  But I can't figure out either why Kim would jeopardize her career to help this guy.  He was nothing but a jerk to her when she tried to help him out.  And why does she want to go after Kevin?  Sure he's an arrogant blowhard, but he has also been nothing but good to Kim and gave her the career opportunity of a lifetime.  She's really that pissed off that he's stubborn about giving in to the old coot and building his call center on the alternate site?  Talk about career suicide.

It makes absolutely no sense. Kevin is in the right and no one else had a problem with this location but this one asshole.

Kim sent a dangerous idiot, Mr.X, to fraudulently gain access to Kevin’s home. 

I think we are coming up on a time period where in a few years the legal profession will take a huge hit and many lawyers will be unemployed.

I hate the idea of Kim throwing away all her hard work for such a petty and undeserving cause.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

But I can't figure out either why Kim would jeopardize her career to help this guy. 

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

I hate the idea of Kim throwing away all her hard work for such a petty and undeserving cause.

I can imagine a flashback reveal of Kim's father being a type of Acker and Kim abandoning him and forever regretting it.
--Maybe he committed suicide or otherwise died broken and alone.    
But I can't imagine such a flashback at this point in this show. 
So I'm guessing it's just that she relates to him as described in her "blue toes" speech a few episodes back. 
That, plus, she's going a little nuts WRT refusing to back down. 
Like others said upthread, Kim wants to believe she's on the right side of things, regardless of legalities. 

 

[PeterPirate]

I think part of Kim's motivation goes back to the letter from Chuck at the end of Something Beautiful.  She was highly disturbed by it, and in the following episode she walked into Judge Neelix' courtroom and wouldn't leave until she had been assigned pro bono work.  On the day Kevin insisted she go out to Tucumcari to confront Acker, she had a bunch of pro bono cases that had to be continued.  Unlike Gus, she has been trying to redeem herself, and Kevin got in the way of that.  

Acker may be a jerk, but as far as we know he is not a criminal.  Kim's pro bono work is for criminals.  She even went to the house of one of them who tried to skip out on her court date.  

I go back and forth on just how much backstory is needed to explain Kim over the past two seasons.  Frankly, I think Kim's feelings of guilt over her role in bringing down Chuck, coupled with her knowledge about all of Jimmy's malfeasance--are enough to explain all of her subsequent behavior.  She's futilely trying to rub out the dark spot in her soul from her misdeeds.  She's Lady MacGill.   

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by PeterPirate

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, Dobian said:

Sure he's an arrogant blowhard, but he has also been nothing but good to Kim and gave her the career opportunity of a lifetime.  She's really that pissed off that he's stubborn about giving in to the old coot and building his call center on the alternate site?  Talk about career suicide.

My take is that she's more upset and angry that he won't let someone else handle it. She tried distancing herself by suggesting associates handle it - I think there was one more attempt prior to the suggesting a different lot, I could be wrong - but he won't let her. She's feeling trapped - and that feeling can lead to all sorts of ill advised, reactive behavior. Also, I'm not all that sure she's that interested in a law career, seems like she's been bored or over stressed for a long time now.

9 hours ago, qtpye said:

Kim sent a dangerous idiot, Mr.X, to fraudulently gain access to Kevin’s home.

To be fair, I think neither Jimmy nor Kim sent him to do that, and were surprised that he did.

2 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I think part of Kim's motivation goes back to the letter from Chuck at the end of Something Beautiful.  She was highly disturbed by it, and in the following episode she walked into Judge Neelix' courtroom and wouldn't leave until she had been assigned pro bono work.  On the day Kevin insisted she go out to Tucumcari to confront Acker, she had a bunch of pro bono cases that had to be continued.  Unlike Gus, she has been trying to redeem herself, and Kevin got in the way of that.  

Acker may be a jerk, but as far as we know he is not a criminal.  Kim's pro bono work is for criminals.  She even went to the house of one of them who tried to skip out on her court date.  

I go back and forth on just how much backstory is needed to explain Kim's behavior.  Frankly, I think Kim's feelings of guilt over her role in bringing down Chuck, coupled with her knowledge about all of Jimmy's malfeasance--are enough to explain all of her subsequent behavior.  She's futilely trying to rub out the dark spot in her soul from her misdeeds.  She's Lady MacGill.  

I hadn't gone that far back to explain her choices, but it makes sense to me. 

[NYCFree]

17 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 

Mike in Mexico was surprisingly fun, it was nice to see him bonding with the lady in the house he was staying at (especially when she gave him a part he needed)

I could be wrong, but I thought the joke of that scene was that Mike was feeling trapped because he couldn’t walk to “freedom” and he couldn’t communicate with the outside world. So he was trying to McGuyver some sort of communication device using whatever he could find. So the lady just brings him his cell phone charger, like it was no big deal and he wasn’t a hostage.

[Clanstarling]

49 minutes ago, NYCFree said:

I could be wrong, but I thought the joke of that scene was that Mike was feeling trapped because he couldn’t walk to “freedom” and he couldn’t communicate with the outside world. So he was trying to McGuyver some sort of communication device using whatever he could find. So the lady just brings him his cell phone charger, like it was no big deal and he wasn’t a hostage.

That's the way I saw it. I remember thinking "fortunately, his phone uses the same charger as his." Every new phone I get has a different type.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

. I remember thinking "fortunately, his phone uses the same charger as his." Every new phone I get has a different type.

This was in the early “oughts” (00s), right? 
Weren’t chargers more universal then? Like there were only 2 types? 
Or do I have that backwards, and there were even more kinds back then?

[ShadowFacts]

One thing I wasn't clear on about Mr. X and his getting into Kevin's house -- did he say he shot something at a window to set off the alarm? If so why didn't the real alarm company respond?

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

This was in the early “oughts” (00s), right? 
Weren’t chargers more universal then? Like there were only 2 types? 
Or do I have that backwards, and there were even more kinds back then?

From the first phone I had (early oughts), it seemed every phone charger was different. There may have been only two types, but apparently my second phone was the other type. 😄But I could be mis-remembering. It was a long time ago now.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Clanstarling

[SoMuchTV]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

One thing I wasn't clear on about Mr. X and his getting into Kevin's house -- did he say he shot something at a window to set off the alarm? If so why didn't the real alarm company respond?

I think he triggered it multiple times, looking like false alarms, until Kevin got frustrated and turned it off. Then he could go in without triggering it. 

[ShadowFacts]

9 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I think he triggered it multiple times, looking like false alarms, until Kevin got frustrated and turned it off. Then he could go in without triggering it. 

I thought it was the housekeeper, but either way, that makes sense.  It still should have triggered the security company to at least call and check that it wasn't accidental.  That's the way he got in, by pretending to be checking the system. 

[SoMuchTV]

14 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I thought it was the housekeeper, but either way, that makes sense.  It still should have triggered the security company to at least call and check that it wasn't accidental.  That's the way he got in, by pretending to be checking the system. 

That's right - you remembered more details than I did.  I think the security company would have called for the false alarms and they (the housekeeper?) got tired of it.  (I wouldn't be surprised if they were charged for false alarms.)  I forgot the part where he pretended to be the security staff to get in.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

The self-righteousness of Kim when she goaded Rich into calling her out was astonishing. It was actually pretty psychotic

If I didn't see with my own eyes her actions, I would have completely thought it justified