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S04.E17: After the Fire

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On 3/22/2020 at 7:46 AM, Blackie said:

 I would think for sure  that being aware from her familiar environment and routine and family is going to cause stress and anxiety and worsening of symptoms, I have seen this in my family members.  I would think Miguel, as the husband, has the POA and makes the decision to pull her.

 

Over all I don't like Randall character and his scenarios.  But I could see what the writers were trying to do there.  At first it was just him, not showing the therapist, then when he opened up to work with the therapist, they showed her.  And just when he seemed like "he got it", they only showed him for the last bit of the therapy. I guess that meant he "got it" for a second but quickly reverted to his safe place of being selfish (him trying "to save " his mom rather than risk confronting her regarding his feelings about her lying).

Can someone help me, I really can't remember how Randal found William way back in the beginning.  I didn't have those eps on my PVR and have tried to read synopsis but can't find the info.

 

Enough Randal, get back to Kevin !!

 

Randall paid a private investigator to find William.

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8 hours ago, bros402 said:

Yeah - the only way for Jack to have known would have been to have a family member die from a bad heart - his dad died from drinking himself to death (I think?), don't know how/when his mother died, and Nicky isn't dead yet.

Wasn't he turned down from the army because of his heart and managed to convince his doctor to say he was healthy enough so he could enlist? 

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On 3/21/2020 at 9:55 PM, kili said:

He largely kept it hidden from his children and after he died, they turned him into a saint. Kevin seems to be the only one who recognizes that he had a drinking problem. When it came up during his family rehab session, the other three reacted angrily. Kate refused to accept that he had a drinking problem, Rebecca didn't want her dead husband's reputation besmirched and Randall said that neither Jack nor Kevin have substance abuse problems (Kevin is just saying that to get attention).

I think it is in character for Randall to have alt-reality fantasy Jack drinking because his reality fantasy Jack doesn't have a drinking problem. It was another clue from the writers that Randall still hasn't accepted his parents for who they really are.  

Didn't his happy fantasy have William and Jack attending an AA type meeting together? 

On 3/21/2020 at 10:55 AM, Roxie said:

In Ohio, that's the law.  If she were a widow without a written POA, it would go next to the eldest child.  (That's if I remember correctly from my time as a hospital social worker.)

I think it's fairly likely that 12 or so years into the future, she is a widow.  Miguel seems to be around Jack's age, and Jack was a few years older than Rebecca, Rebecca's around 70 now, plus we haven't seen him at Kevin's house of the future yet. If she creates a POA while still of sound mind, she can name a successor to Miguel right in it.

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On 3/21/2020 at 7:55 PM, kili said:

He largely kept it hidden from his children and after he died, they turned him into a saint. Kevin seems to be the only one who recognizes that he had a drinking problem. When it came up during his family rehab session, the other three reacted angrily. Kate refused to accept that he had a drinking problem, Rebecca didn't want her dead husband's reputation besmirched and Randall said that neither Jack nor Kevin have substance abuse problems (Kevin is just saying that to get attention).

I think it is in character for Randall to have alt-reality fantasy Jack drinking because his reality fantasy Jack doesn't have a drinking problem. It was another clue from the writers that Randall still hasn't accepted his parents for who they really are.  

Jack definitely had a drinking problem and he did relapse. In episode 2 of season 1, Rebecca tells Jack that he has to control his drinking, and he seems to do that on his own (this is when the Big 3 are about 9.) When he relapses (when the Big 3 are teens) is when he goes to rehab. 

I really, really have never considered Jack to be a saint and I don't think his children look at him that way either. He was just a great father, attentive, loving and supportive. 

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1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

Didn't his happy fantasy have William and Jack attending an AA type meeting together? 

 

Yes, it did.

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Quote

I wouldn't expect any adoptive parents to encourage a relationship with a bio parent, why would they.

Because the parents love their child. Because the parents know their child. Because the parents know that this is the one thing that they cannot give their child, on their own. Because the parents know that their child loves them. 

Rebecca told Jack that she was afraid of somehow losing Randall -- years after they'd legally adopted him. What she couldn't say (she felt) was why: that she'd lied by omission when the family court judge noted, in passing, that Randall's other parents could not be found. Her guilt about that secret may explain a bit about how she went on to over-compensate with both Randall and Jack.  

Thirty years later she told Randall that she'd been afraid of losing him, emotionally, if he found his other father. Both fears are completely understandable, and terrible to carry alone. But Rebecca chose not to have even one other adult to confide in, let alone, seek out for help. 

We make our greatest mistakes as parents from what we still refuse to face in ourselves. Throughout their marriage, Jack and Rebecca were on the same page when it came to avoiding therapy for their own anxiety (hers) or depression (his). Even when she saw Randall's anxiety disorder for what it was -- "He's getting worse!" and Jack did too -- they both still bowed to Jack's defenses against the dark arts. That remained true after Jack's death, when every member of the family was in need. In the grief she bore alone, Rebecca could only hand-wave each child's childish coping mechanism. "I'll be Dad." "I'll marry a new family." "I'll be Katie Girl, professionally."

Help doesn't always help. Therapy is absolutely no cure-all, with or without medication. But these are its possibilities: that self-knowledge is possible and valuable; that self-knowledge can be survived; that without self-knowledge, survival is most likely to come at others' expense, and without joy, peace, or gratitude. 

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Randall paid a private investigator to find William.

This was in the very first episode of TIU, so viewers were not privy to the hiring of the PI. 

Was William just hanging around the hospital to see if anyone had adopted the baby he'd left at the fire house? Because if Rebecca saw him there and followed him, wouldn't it have had to be after she'd recovered from giving birth to triplets? Someone refresh my memoy.

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16 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Was William just hanging around the hospital to see if anyone had adopted the baby he'd left at the fire house? Because if Rebecca saw him there and followed him, wouldn't it have had to be after she'd recovered from giving birth to triplets? Someone refresh my memoy.

IIRC, she saw him watching when they were bringing her and the babies out to the car. I don't recall how she actually tracked him down, though.

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2 hours ago, Pallas said:

Help doesn't always help. Therapy is absolutely no cure-all, with or without medication. But these are its possibilities: that self-knowledge is possible and valuable; that self-knowledge can be survived; that without self-knowledge, survival is most likely to come at others' expense, and without joy, peace, or gratitude. 

Great post.  This last bit illuminates a lot about Rebecca for me.  I have always wondered about the difference between her pre- and post-Jack appearance and demeanor.  She lost vibrancy, became colorless in a sense, was subdued in a way that was more than just aging.  Her relationships with Kevin and Kate were distant, and hers with Randall was co-dependent.  She was weighted down with so much.  Now that pivotal relationship with Randall is being tested at a time when she is least prepared for the challenge.  Pretty tragic.

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

IIRC, she saw him watching when they were bringing her and the babies out to the car. I don't recall how she actually tracked him down, though.

I think she got a lead from a bus driver, who referred to him as Shakespeare, because he was always writing on the bus.

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15 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Wasn't he turned down from the army because of his heart and managed to convince his doctor to say he was healthy enough so he could enlist? 

I believe it was a heart murmur, which wouldn't be indicative of any big heart issues, I imagine - a lot of people have them.

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I unfortunately didn’t get a chance to read every single comment on this episode so if I am being repetitive, I apologize.  I had an additional thought on Randall’s obsession in getting his mother into this clinical trial.  There is a huge part of his narcissistic belief that he knows what is best for Rebecca, but  I thought there was additionally an underlying current of punishment. Rebecca took his birth father away from him (from Randall’s point of view) for all but 1 year or so of his life, so now he is going to push her into being away from her family during a critical  part of her life.  He blatantly guilt-tripped her into doing this trial when she was very clear about her desire to spend quality time with her family while she could still enjoy and remember them.  He may believe that he is doing this in Rebecca’s best interests, but I think subconsciously he wants to punish her.  Just a thought.  

One other thought:  Mandy Moore is killing it as Rebecca.  How gut wrenching the decision to agree to Randall’s wishes was so exquisitely expressed by her facial  expressions alone.  She deserves an Emmy nomination /win for her work.  

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21 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think she got a lead from a bus driver, who referred to him as Shakespeare, because he was always writing on the bus.

Also because his name is William. She saw the bus stop he got on and went back to it, the bus driver seemed to know him well.

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On 3/23/2020 at 10:34 AM, Rohirrim said:

Randall paid a private investigator to find William.

Randall’s always been a jerk. He went through the trouble of paying a PI to track down William, just so he could go yell at him and brag about his $100,000 car.

Edited by Jeddah
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1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

Randall’s always been a jerk. He went through the trouble of paying a PI to track down William, just so he could go yell at him and brag about his $100,000 car.

$140,000. That he paid in cash.

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34 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

$140,000. That he paid in cash.

My sincerest apology to Randall! I can’t believe I thought he drove a car that cost a measly $100,000.

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On 3/24/2020 at 6:44 PM, Jeddah said:

My sincerest apology to Randall! I can’t believe I thought he drove a car that cost a measly $100,000.

Haha.....boys and their toys......

 

 

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I understand Randall wanting Rebecca to do the trial and I even understand how he thinks she may “owe” him, but voicing all this to Rebecca is not ok.  It’s ok to think it, but not to actually guilt her into it.  Randall was a good son up until that very moment.

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