S04.E17: After the Fire

[CarpeFelis]

1 hour ago, Veronica said:

Given how threatened Jack was by any other man, especially a black man, being an influence on Randall, I’m not really thinking he would have been all, “Let’s go meet your bio-dad!” 

I really do wish we would find out at some point Jack knew about William, how to find him, where he was, and was all  in one keeping it from Randall. 

This plus his own secret keeping about Nicky and his devotion to Rebecca make it really unlikely he ever would have reacted the way he did in Randall’s second version.

[CarpeFelis]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

Also, I don't think we can draw any conclusions from Kate being heavy in both of Randall's future scenarios. That was the show's only real option. The only way to give us a thin Kate would be by using a different actress, which would be wildly distracting and overshadow everything else in the episode.

“We can rebuild her. We have the technology...”

Seriously though, we do have the technology if the show chose to use it. Chrissy’s face could have been digitally superimposed on another actress ala Will Smith in Gemini Man.

[sasha206]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

That is not the role of a therapist.

And even if the therapist took that unprofessional path, there is no way that Randall would listen.

If a therapist is going to try and provoke a reaction, they better know their client/patient pretty well beforehand.  If a therapist came at me that way, I would tell the therapist off, walkout and never come back.  Patients are expected to open up completely.  There is vulnerability in doing that.  For a therapist to then get in that patient's face would be completely counterproductive.  

 

I agree with what you are saying. It's not the therapist's role to essentially parent the patient.  However, she would clearly be able to point out that once again, he's taken on the position of he must fix this and if does not fix this he cannot go on in life.  He is repeating a pattern.  

The manipulation of his mother in order for him to be able to fix her is a whole 'nuther bag of worms I hope the therapist gets into next episode.

Edited March 18, 2020 by sasha206

[CarpeFelis]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

He is so good.  I love teen Randall.  He is so earnest.  He is also nothing like Randall now. 

He was well on his way to becoming today’s Randall when he decided to stay in Pittsburgh to “take care of” Rebecca instead of going to Howard. Look at him in New York last episode thinking grown-ass Rebecca “needs” him to go with her to hail a cab. I was surprised he actually backed off when Kevin pointed out that she was a grown woman!

[kili]

The other person that was missing from Alt-Happy Thanksgiving? Shauna. How does Jack not dying delete her from Deja's life?

There is a lot to unpack from Randall's perfect and not-so-perfect life alt-lives.

[chocolatine]

2 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

He was well on his way to becoming today’s Randall when he decided to stay in Pittsburgh to “take care of” Rebecca instead of going to Howard. Look at him in New York last episode thinking grown-ass Rebecca “needs” him to go with her to hail a cab. I was surprised he actually backed off when Kevin pointed out that she was a grown woman!

He was also trying to tell her what food she should order, and decided unilaterally that she wasn’t ready to date.

[ShadowFacts]

What are we going to do after next week's finale, and we can't fillet Randall for much longer?  It's going to be quite a stretch, probably longer than usual, before we get a new season.  Maybe Randall will take the extra time to look at his life and look at his choices 😉

[himela]

The only good thing from this episode is Pamela Adlon. If you loved her, you must watch her show, Better Things.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt4370596/

[Crs97]

14 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:

Threatened or just protective about what kind of influence his son was being exposed to? He felt similar about Randall's teacher who he was idolizing. I think from a parents point of view those would be natural concerns. 

I thought it was made very clear that his teacher was awesome and Jack felt threatened by him.  Didn’t Rebecca have a big talk about how Randall would always choose Jack so Jack needed to make sure Randall didn’t have to?

Mr. Crs talks about a teacher who had a profound effect on his life and helped steer him in his choice of college degree. Fast-forward twenty years and his dad was still pissed about her and demanded that he get the credit for husband’s decision.  I recognized Jack in that dreadful dinner, and there is no way he would just show up to William’s door with Randall in tow.

[Neurochick]

I don't hate Randall at all.

I get him.  He's the hero in the family.  He was the good son, Kevin went off and did his thing, became an addict, wasn't too responsible.  Randall was the one who stayed close to home, close to his mother.  Randall saw himself the hero.  Randall was the only one who married and had children.  That was his role in the family and everybody was okay with that.  Dysfunctional family roles that stick until things change.

But then things change as they will.  Kevin got sober and now he's not such a fuck up anymore.  Randall however doesn't see Kevin as anything but the asshole he was when they were kids and he doesn't want to relinquish control over Rebecca's life.  That's why he kept telling Rebecca that he's the "good son."   Randall doesn't want Kevin to be the hero of the family.  Randall's like, "I'm the hero, Kevin's the fuck up."    I've seen so much shit like that in families. 

The therapist should have reminded Randall that his staying close to home enabled him to meet Beth, who he never would have met had he gone to Howard.  That maybe Rebecca wasn't wrong not to tell him about William.  In the second version, Randall went to see William and William wasn't so welcoming, that was more realistic than William welcoming Randall with open arms. 

Randall had never forgiven Rebecca for her not telling him about William.  He's never been able to see Kevin as anything but a fuck up and that's sad because Rebecca needs all their help right now. 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Neurochick

[Neurochick]

7 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

It is annoying that this show has become centered around Randall. The showrunners should have planned the three episodes before the season finale to have an alternate universe for each of the Big Three. Only showing Randall's does a disservice to the show and the fans.

What fans are you talking about?  I don't mind it being the Randall show at all. 

[CarpeFelis]

17 minutes ago, himela said:

The only good thing from this episode is Pamela Adlon. If you loved her, you must watch her show, Better Things.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt4370596/

I love her and that show but the three hideously bratty daughters and her mother all would drive me up the wall!

[BoogieBurns]

21 hours ago, mtlchick said:

A tiny bit more plausible though my sister wasn’t convinced he would join a step team.

He pledged a black fraternity. The LEAST Randall fraternity of all. That was not at all in character with the Randall we've seen for 17 years. Each black frat has a sort of "type" and Randall is NOT and Omega "type" in any timeline.

[chocolatine]

48 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I don't hate Randall at all.

I get him.  He's the hero in the family.  He was the good son, Kevin went off and did his thing, became an addict, wasn't too responsible.  Randall was the one who stayed close to home, close to his mother.  Randall saw himself the hero.  Randall was the only one who married and had children.  That was his role in the family and everybody was okay with that.  Dysfunctional family roles that stick until things change.

Family/parental love is not a competition in who is the most "heroic" or "good", that's a very unhealthy dynamic. One that Randall has mostly created in his own mind, though Rebecca should have been more assertive in setting boundaries with him after Jack's death (like not letting him come to her job interview with her).

41 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

I love her and that show but the three hideously bratty daughters and her mother all would drive me up the wall!

Yeah, that's why I had to stop watching that show, though I do love Pamela Adlon and her character.

Edited March 18, 2020 by chocolatine

[mishap]

Keep going to therapy Randall.  

I didn't think I could watch this episode when I thought the whole thing was going to be about Randall's fantasy world.     That knowing look, when Rebecca lost her phone, between Jack and Randall was nauseating.   Yes, Jack would have noticed and known, because Rebecca  misplaces her phone and keys a lot.     I know that there were other things too, things that Miguel didn't notice, or just thought was normal.  Because we all do stuff like that.  

Randall was pretty clear -- Mom do this trial , so I can feel like I tried everything I could.   He does not take her or anyone else into consideration and doesn't even try to hide it, that is all about him.  

 So please, keep going to therapy Randall.  

[ljenkins782]

22 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

No.  It wasn't important to Randall. I'm not sure why he didn't just give her Toby as a husband, as in the first scenario.  Plus, I wanted to know if she had gone to college to study music.

I also wanted to know what Kate was doing in the fantasy Thanksgiving episodes where they were all home from school. Of all of them, her life was derailed the most in the long term. Kevin went on to make it as an actor, Randall went to college and had a great job and family, but Kate stalled out for years. 

What is the deal with the trial that she has to be separated from her family for the 9 months? Miguel can't go with her and the kids can't visit? 

[sasha206]

3 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

He was well on his way to becoming today’s Randall when he decided to stay in Pittsburgh to “take care of” Rebecca instead of going to Howard. Look at him in New York last episode thinking grown-ass Rebecca “needs” him to go with her to hail a cab. I was surprised he actually backed off when Kevin pointed out that she was a grown woman!

As a mom whose husband died when my daughter was 14, the "taking care of mom" story line annoys me!  Your job as a mom is to get your kids through grief, not become the person they take care of!

[Scarlett45]

24 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

What is the deal with the trial that she has to be separated from her family for the 9 months? Miguel can't go with her and the kids can't visit?

She doesn’t have to be separated from her family. Miguel could go to St Louis and Randall suggested that the kids rotate visiting her each week. STILL that’s a lot to ask of someone, and she didn’t want to do it. Randall was such a manipulative selfish asshole in that action. 

[lexiexx]

Am I crazy, or did Rebecca not owe William a damn thing?   He abandoned his baby.  The baby was adopted.   It WAS a complicated situation, because he had never given up his rights and was an addict.  They went over all of that. I did half ass watch this episode because I found it boring so I might be off here, but I seriously doubt that if Jack had known back when Rebecca first found William, he would have been all gung ho about risking their adoption and interrupting Randall's life.   No way, it would have ended with Jack giving a speech and pontificating about why Randall is his son and how much it means to Jack to be Randall's father, topped off with a reference to his own horrible childhood.  Randall grew up and found his bio dad on his own like many other adopted kids.  It's not Rebecca's job to foster a relationship there.   Also, Jack has no room to be pissed about secrets.   I have always found it strange that they never, ever talk about the third triplet.   

It's awful how all of them talk to Rebecca like she's a piece of shit when they aren't emotionally manipulating her.  Jack was madly in love with Rebecca, I don't believe that he would have treated her like the second scenario...and I don't think he would tolerate how she is always walking on eggshells to not set any of them off.   She's the scapegoat of that family, it's gross.

[CarpeFelis]

7 minutes ago, lexiexx said:

Am I crazy, or did Rebecca not owe William a damn thing?   He abandoned his baby.  The baby was adopted.   It WAS a complicated situation, because he had never given up his rights and was an addict.  They went over all of that. I did half ass watch this episode because I found it boring so I might be off here, but I seriously doubt that if Jack had known back when Rebecca first found William, he would have been all gung ho about risking their adoption and interrupting Randall's life.   No way, it would have ended with Jack giving a speech and pontificating about why Randall is his son and how much it means to Jack to be Randall's father, topped off with a reference to his own horrible childhood.  Randall grew up and found his bio dad on his own like many other adopted kids.  It's not Rebecca's job to foster a relationship there.   Also, Jack has no room to be pissed about secrets.   I have always found it strange that they never, ever talk about the third triplet.   

It's awful how all of them talk to Rebecca like she's a piece of shit when they aren't emotionally manipulating her.  Jack was madly in love with Rebecca, I don't believe that he would have treated her like the second scenario...and I don't think he would tolerate how she is always walking on eggshells to not set any of them off.   She's the scapegoat of that family, it's gross.

I agree with most of what you’re saying except for Rebecca being a scapegoat. She definitely was in both of Randall’s imaginary scenarios, but I don’t see it in their real lives. She is definitely passive but I don’t think that’s a matter of trying not to set anyone off, it’s just who she is. She always ended up deferring to Jack (the singing career, for example). And she passively let Randall take over when Jack died, which was a huge parenting fail. So I really can’t find it in myself to feel even a tiny bit sorry for her.

[lexiexx]

I just mean it in a general way.  Like how she is always baby talking that bitch Kate and calling her 'bug' just to have Kate act like she always does and bitch Rebecca out, which always somehow ends up in Rebecca apologizing somehow.   Even Tess got loud with her on that one episode.   Miguel's family treats her like shit.   Kevin is kind of in the middle ( I ff most of his scenes tbh), and Randall gets sanctimonious every time she doesn't do what he says or wants to have her own opinion on anything.    And no matter what, she is right there just thrilled that they are ready to forgive her for doing absolutely nothing except for trying to talk to them or have an idea or an opinion of her own.   

Even in Randall's fantasy she gets shit from Jack and Jack takes Randall's side.   I don't think it would have played out like that.   They all just assume that Rebecca will take shit, constantly, be crying with happiness when they re ready to knock their shit off, that he even relates to her in this way in his fantasies.  The 'big three' are a bunch of assholes lol 

[ams1001]

26 minutes ago, lexiexx said:

It's not Rebecca's job to foster a relationship there.

I think, at the very least, she would have been justified in waiting until he was 18 to tell him. 

[SunnyBeBe]

One thing that struck my interest in this episode was Randall’s purported GUILT from not saving his dad’s life, even though it clearly was not his fault. I never knew how pervasive guilt is in this country until I started reading Comments from caretakers of the sick, elderly, disabled, etc. You also see it on realty shows.  The reasons given why these people feel guilty are laughable. It’s so ridiculous that I finally concluded that the person is either lying or  is saying it for attention and pity. I feel that about Randall. He feigns guilt, so others will fuss over him and beg him to not punish himself. I have little patience for it. Why can’t people be honest with themselves?  Their contentions are so self indulgent......ughhhh

The trial may be helpful, but maybe it won’t. His plea was over sale. Just state the facts and let her decide. So, if things don’t go well, Randall gets to blame himself and feel guilty some more. Please.....

[PRgal]

3 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

He pledged a black fraternity. The LEAST Randall fraternity of all. That was not at all in character with the Randall we've seen for 17 years. Each black frat has a sort of "type" and Randall is NOT and Omega "type" in any timeline.

So Omega men are stereotypically @$$holes?  

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

I think, at the very least, she would have been justified in waiting until he was 18 to tell him. 

I agree. This episode ignored a previous flashback when Rebecca reached out to William when Randall was 8 or 9. That time William was sober and really eager to meet Randall, which scared Rebecca, so she walked away. Knowing that William had straightened himself out, I thought she owed it to tell Randall about William when Randall turned 18 so he could make his own decision whether to have a relationship with William.

But even though Rebecca was wrong to keep that information from Randall, he was still completely out of line to demand that she do the trial to "compensate" for that. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Edited March 19, 2020 by chocolatine

[lexiexx]

She had every right to walk away.  Randall was an abandoned baby who was adopted.   We don't even know that Rebecca knew where William was or what he was up to years later when the kids turned 18 which is also around the time that Jack died.  I don't recall flashback Randall ever even asking about his bio parents (although he's pretty long winded, I admit it could have happened and I missed it).   Even if she did know, why should she be obligated to bridge a relationship there?   I wouldn't expect any adoptive parents to encourage a relationship with a bio parent, why would they.   

Randall should be happy that he wasn't raised in poverty by a drug addict.  He should fantasize about how that would have played out instead.

[sara416]

7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

That is not the role of a therapist.

And even if the therapist took that unprofessional path, there is no way that Randall would listen.

If a therapist is going to try and provoke a reaction, they better know their client/patient pretty well beforehand.  If a therapist came at me that way, I would tell the therapist off, walkout and never come back.  Patients are expected to open up completely.  There is vulnerability in doing that.  For a therapist to then get in that patient's face would be completely counterproductive.  

 

You are absolutely correct. You need to know how your client will react. Sometimes provoking them like that to get a reaction is EXACTLY what they need. Sometimes they need gentle hand holding. We have only seen Randall at this therapist twice, but he may have been there more often than that. Treatment is individualized, and the theory that the therapist is operating under often determines how they interact with their clients. Watch some old school Gestalt videos some day. They are hard core, and the client's end up really liking that. You find the therapist that clicks with you. It seems that this technique worked for Randall, and that's good. Kate would not benefit from a therapist with this approach though. You just have to individualize your approach for clients. 

[betha]

On 3/17/2020 at 10:05 PM, mansfolly said:

 

...so THAT'S why they are not speaking in the future.

Will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

I kind of like cool, rotten Randall. Ha.

He was Bad Janet!

53 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

One thing that struck my interest in this episode was Randall’s purported GUILT from not saving his dad’s life, even though it clearly was not his fault. I never knew how pervasive guilt is in this country until I started reading Comments from caretakers of the sick, elderly, disabled, etc. You also see it on realty shows.  The reasons given why these people feel guilty are laughable. It’s so ridiculous that I finally concluded that the person is either lying or  is saying it for attention and pity. I feel that about Randall. He feigns guilt, so others will fuss over him and beg him to not punish himself. I have little patience for it. Why can’t people be honest with themselves?  Their contentions are so self indulgent......ughhhh

 

It’s a pretty normal human emotion. 

[chocolatine]

30 minutes ago, lexiexx said:

She had every right to walk away.  Randall was an abandoned baby who was adopted.   We don't even know that Rebecca knew where William was or what he was up to years later when the kids turned 18 which is also around the time that Jack died.  I don't recall flashback Randall ever even asking about his bio parents (although he's pretty long winded, I admit it could have happened and I missed it).   Even if she did know, why should she be obligated to bridge a relationship there?   I wouldn't expect any adoptive parents to encourage a relationship with a bio parent, why would they.   

There was a flashback of nine-year-old Randall looking at a black couple in the supermarket wondering if they were his parents. That's why Rebecca went to look for William again, after so many years. It was her idea at first, but when William was immediately eager to meet Randall she became scared - possibly threatened that Randall will love William more than her and Jack - and she walked away. I understand not letting William into Randall's life at the time since Randall was a child and she didn't know if William would stay sober. But she should have told Randall when he became an adult and let him make his own choices.

35 minutes ago, lexiexx said:

Randall should be happy that he wasn't raised in poverty by a drug addict.  He should fantasize about how that would have played out instead.

I reject the notion that adopted children should "just be happy" that they were raised by a good family. It's completely natural to want to know where they came from and what the circumstances of their adoption were.

[Crs97]

William abandoned Randall because he was using.  She visited once and William was sober at that moment, but was ready to have Randall sleep over before even getting to learn anything about him. Rebecca was right to walk away then.  Jack died right around when the kids turned 18; she had enough on her plate besides telling Randall that ten years ago his bio dad was sober and wanted to meet him.  She also told Randall on at least one occasion that he was not responsible for her.  If he chose to ignore her, that was on him.  For him to use this as ammunition against her Like she owes him is disgraceful.

[memememe76]

I don’t see how the writers are writing Randall in the right. They have the family refusing to speak to him and his therapist is arguing against it. Unless we will see Rebecca actually do the study and miraculously improve. 

[lexiexx]

19 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

There was a flashback of nine-year-old Randall looking at a black couple in the supermarket wondering if they were his parents. That's why Rebecca went to look for William again, after so many years. It was her idea at first, but when William was immediately eager to meet Randall she became scared - possibly threatened that Randall will love William more than her and Jack - and she walked away. I understand not letting William into Randall's life at the time since Randall was a child and she didn't know if William would stay sober. But she should have told Randall when he became an adult and let him make his own choices.

I reject the notion that adopted children should "just be happy" that they were raised by a good family. It's completely natural to want to know where they came from and what the circumstances of their adoption were.

Why should she have told him?  They all made their choices, including William.    I don't get why anyone thinks that Rebecca should have done any of that.   William isn't Randall's dad, never was.  Why would a recently widowed single mom of three decide to out of nowhere go track down an ex drug addict who never even knew Randall just because they are blood related and Randall is 18 now.   And then Randall has all of these bizarre fantasies about his rage over how Rebecca handled it like anyone owed William anything.  Of course it's. natural to wonder about the situation but how does that translate into opening up your lives to a stranger just because he's the bio dad?  

[maggiemae]

Can't imagine going against my "siblings" and mother and her husband of many years.

And BTW - Jack was a much better father than Randall. And a better husband as well.

 

 

[chocolatine]

12 minutes ago, lexiexx said:

Why should she have told him?  They all made their choices, including William.    I don't get why anyone thinks that Rebecca should have done any of that.   William isn't Randall's dad, never was.  Why would a recently widowed single mom of three decide to out of nowhere go track down an ex drug addict who never even knew Randall just because they are blood related and Randall is 18 now.   And then Randall has all of these bizarre fantasies about his rage over how Rebecca handled it like anyone owed William anything.  Of course it's. natural to wonder about the situation but how does that translate into opening up your lives to a stranger just because he's the bio dad?  

Because Randall wanted to know. She didn't have to track William down herself, just told Randall what she knew and let him, as an adult, decide what to do with that information.

[lexiexx]

We don't know that Randall ever told Rebecca that he was interested in meeting his bio parents.  Of course he wondered what the circumstances were, but even Beth didn't know that Randall had been searching for or found William until he brought him home.   Rebecca saw Randall as hers and Jack's son, like any other closed adoption she treated it as such.  

 

[chocolatine]

12 minutes ago, lexiexx said:

We don't know that Randall ever told Rebecca that he was interested in meeting his bio parents.

We do know. From https://www.holtinternational.org/pas/newsletter/2017/12/04/the-adoption-lens-of-this-is-us/:

Quote

 We see young Randall in a grocery store asking random adults to curl their tongues because he has learned this trait is hereditary and wonders if any of them — because they are Black — might be related to them. As he battles with forming his identity, he also carries a little notebook where he documents his encounters with people of color.

Rebecca was with Randall at the grocery store. That's why she sought William out again, after not having any contact with him since Randall was a baby.

Edited March 19, 2020 by chocolatine

[chabelisaywow]

When you do something for someone else - you do it for yourself - for the joy it brings you, for whatever it fulfills in you. You don't do something for others to use it as bargaining chip later on.

Not once - does Randall say "can you please do it for me."

The fucker says "you will do this trial."

Randall can suck a big bag of dicks. I hope this is a way to write the actor off the series before it ends.

[NUguy514]

1 hour ago, maggiemae said:

Can't imagine going against my "siblings" and mother and her husband of many years.

Kevin and Kate are Randall's siblings, not his "siblings."

[Marley]

Randall is just a self important douche always and forever even in alternate universes. What a gross ending. I hope in the future Rebecca doesn’t go to the trial. She has Alzheimer’s there’s no cure. Her going away for so long is messed up and if she does go away I can see why they would all hate him in the future. So because he has these issues she has to go away to the trial that may do nothing or make her worse. Omg I hate him.

Also Randall fuck off with your thoughts on Rebecca owing you something. She did something messed up but Jack and Rebecca have bent over backwards for Randall. Honestly the only sibling that is allowed to have a little bit of issues with his mom is Kevin and that’s cause he was basically ignored most of the time but even he has gotten over that stuff.

He’s not that great of a son. No one forced him to stay behind he probably held Rebecca back doing what he did.

Also I love how in his stupid fantasies Jack was totally fine drinking. In one Jack was drinking beer and another Jameson.

IMO too Jack would never react to Rebecca that way in the second fantasy and been all mad for so long.. Randall is just a fucked up jerk. Poor Beth.

Too much Randall. I miss everyone else.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Marley

[Lone Wolf]

Professor Randall had a pretty sweet crib.  I wouldn't have thought that he would have been able to afford it on a higher educator's salary, but then again it was Real Randall's fantasy; why not give himself the lifestyle he'd become accustomed to...

[ams1001]

7 hours ago, lexiexx said:

Why would a recently widowed single mom of three decide to out of nowhere go track down an ex drug addict who never even knew Randall just because they are blood related and Randall is 18 now. 

I wouldn't expect her to do that (widowed or otherwise). At the most, I would think she might give him what information she had and let Randall, as a legal adult, decide if he wanted to track him down or not. (And hopefully discuss with him what the potential outcomes might be so he doesn't get his expectations too high [if that's even possible with Randall].) That's aside from the life circumstances they found themselves in at the time he turned 18, though. If she had planned to do that, I can see how Jack's death might make her hesitate.

I think it's safe to say most adopted kids wonder about their biological family at least somewhat. Some might want to look for them, some might not. Some will hope for a relationship of some kind, some might just want to know who they are. If their adoptive parents have information, I think it's only fair to share it when the kid is old enough, then they can decide what they want to do.

 

[ShadowFacts]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Because Randall wanted to know. She didn't have to track William down herself, just told Randall what she knew and let him, as an adult, decide what to do with that information.

I can't think of a good reason for her to have kept the information from Randall for his whole life, which is what happened since he had to find out for himself at age 36 or so.  She not only never told him, she never told her husband.  That, I imagine, would color her whole life, that big of a lie.  Talk about guilt.  It absolutely does not entitle Randall to use it as blackmail.  They're two separate things but the writers have now decided to hang Randall's abominable behavior on her mistake.  And her guilt led her to cave in.  She had already firmly told both Kevin and Randall in New York that her decision was made, she did not want any further comment from either of them.  I believe she would have stood her ground if not for Randall manipulating her with guilt.  She could have withstood other pressure about how he knew best, etc.  Although I despise what Randall is doing as much as everyone and don't really like what they're doing in this episode, I can see it somewhat in terms of a butterfly effect from that long-ago decision Rebecca made.

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Randall’s purported GUILT from not saving his dad’s life, even though it clearly was not his fault. I never knew how pervasive guilt is in this country until I started reading Comments from caretakers of the sick, elderly, disabled, etc. You also see it on realty shows.  The reasons given why these people feel guilty are laughable.

People in my Sib group feel guilty about not being disabled when their brother/sister is. They feel guilty about having a typical IQ and being able to live independently. I’m not shitting you. I always knew parents had guilt- which makes sense to me they created the child, but I had no idea siblings had guilt until I joined my group. (I do not have any sort of guilt what so ever)

 

So I can firmly believe that Randall genuinely has guilt about not saving his Dad whom he loved very much. I can believe he would have guilt about Rebecca’s illness, this in no way excuses his manipulation and selfish choices- he was being an asshole. 
 

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that Rebecca owed WILLIAM anything, but she did keep a big secret from her HUSBAND that was related to their family (not something that happened before she met him) and she kept a big secret from Randall, who at this point was trying to find his birth parents. She owes something to Jack and Randall not William. 

[cardigirl]

I think Rebecca may have intended to let both Jack and Randall know what she knew about Randall's birth father at some point, but initially she was scared, and then the secret became this big thing and then Jack died. The loss she suffered from that obliterated all else for the time being and by the time she started feeling 'normal' again, perhaps she felt it was too late to give Randall that information. 

We have been shown Randall as a younger person wanting to know about his birth parents, so she was not unaware of his desire to meet them. It's not like he just started looking for them and she had no idea he wanted to know.  That's the part Randall finds so hard to forgive. She knew he wanted to know, she watched him search, and she didn't help him. 

Her reasons for not doing so initially are understandable, but the second time they made contact, it's less easy to forgive, as William was clean, and wanting to connect. He came on too strong and scared Rebecca again, and she made the decision, all on her own, to not let anyone know he was around. 

But I don't know that using her guilt over a decision she made years ago to do Randall's trial is going to make up for this. I don't see it making him less driven or obsessed. 

[MissLucas]

32 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

But I don't know that using her guilt over a decision she made years ago to do Randall's trial is going to make up for this. I don't see it making him less driven or obsessed. 

No, if anything it will make him worse. I don't believe for one second that the writers really think this episode is divisive. They know exactly what they are doing. 

I wish we could see his next therapy session:

'Hey, Doc - great sess last week. I took the lesson that this is all about my mother to heart and guilt tripped her into a drug trail she did not want. My siblings are no longer talking to me but they're losers, so who cares. Now let's talk about your poor taste in interior design and footwear.'

*crickets with silently exploding heads*

Edited March 19, 2020 by MissLucas

[blondiec0332]

14 hours ago, Neurochick said:

What fans are you talking about?  I don't mind it being the Randall show at all. 

I can only speak for myself and the comments I see here. But I think seeing the alternate universe that Kate and Kevin would imagine would give greater insight into their characters. As it is now we know a great deal about what motivates Randall but not a whole bunch about why Kevin and Kate make the choices they make.  We can't even pin down why Kate gained so much weight. Or why Kevin became a substance abuser. I think Randall has a lot to explore as he is was an adopted child of color in a white family. But I don't think it should be at the expense of Kate and Kevin.

[ams1001]

8 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

I can only speak for myself and the comments I see here. But I think seeing the alternate universe that Kate and Kevin would imagine would give greater insight into their characters. As it is now we know a great deal about what motivates Randall but not a whole bunch about why Kevin and Kate make the choices they make.  We can't even pin down why Kate gained so much weight. Or why Kevin became a substance abuser. I think Randall has a lot to explore as he is was an adopted child of color in a white family. But I don't think it should be at the expense of Kate and Kevin.

Yeah, it's This is Us, not This is Randall...

[blondiec0332]

54 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

So I can firmly believe that Randall genuinely has guilt about not saving his Dad whom he loved very much. I can believe he would have guilt about Rebecca’s illness, this in no way excuses his manipulation and selfish choices- he was being an asshole. 

I also thinks fear plays a big part. Randall has lost three parents. One before he even knew her. My son lost two dads. His bio dad (who he didn't remember) and his step dad. Shortly after my husband died my son was very fearful of losing me too. Any time I had a health issue no matter how minor he would say you are going to die I just know it.  He didn't really believe that but he was scared.  Now would he have made me feel guilty to get me to do something I didn't want to do just to make himself feel better? No. Randall's fear has made him selfish and putting his needs ahead of  his mother's.

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

I can only speak for myself and the comments I see here. But I think seeing the alternate universe that Kate and Kevin would imagine would give greater insight into their characters. As it is now we know a great deal about what motivates Randall but not a whole bunch about why Kevin and Kate make the choices they make.  We can't even pin down why Kate gained so much weight. Or why Kevin became a substance abuser. I think Randall has a lot to explore as he is was an adopted child of color in a white family. But I don't think it should be at the expense of Kate and Kevin.

Kate is the most underwritten lead character I have ever seen.  She gets what amounts to random storylines which are constantly dropped because the writers have not mapped out her story yet.  I know the show's creator wanted her main storyline to be weight loss, but after season one they knew that wasn't happening.  She has been in limbo since.  They have had time to write for her but choose not to.  Yes she met Toby, got married, had a high risk pregnancy and early labor, and now has a disabled child; but these are character attributes and not plot.  She gets her requisite number of scenes each season, but they do very little to advance the plot or to fill in the holes.  Both Randall and Kevin get character growth and Kate is still very static.  

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Kate is the most underwritten lead character I have ever seen.  She gets what amounts to random storylines which are constantly dropped because the writers have not mapped out her story yet.  I know the show's creator wanted her main storyline to be weight loss, but after season one they knew that wasn't happening.  She has been in limbo since.  They have had time to write for her but choose not to.  Yes she met Toby, got married, had a high risk pregnancy and early labor, and now has a disabled child; but these are character attributes and not plot.  She gets her requisite number of scenes each season, but they do very little to advance the plot or to fill in the holes.  Both Randall and Kevin get character growth and Kate is still very static.  

I agree.